Lowbie warrior can't hold aggro?

[Naethyn]

I found obsidian shards to be terrible at low levels due to mobs hp being so low and hardly getting a proc per every other kill at best. I wouldn't consider proc weapons until yaks at 37.

[Legday]

The root suggestion is dead on. As long as the Cleric roots and the rogue and warrior are doing their part in terms of keeping the right distance, it will never touch the rogue.

An alternative that hasn't been mentioned (I don't think), is to let the warrior beat on the mob for 5 seconds or so before the rogue jumps in. The warrior builds hate and the rogue will have a harder time catching up especially since the fights are short at low levels.

Still, Cleric roots and everybody does their job = warrior gets 100% of the agro.

[Rararboker]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I found obsidian shards to be terrible at low levels due to mobs hp being so low and hardly getting a proc per every other kill at best. I wouldn't consider proc weapons until yaks at 37.

Sounds like a low dex problem more than anything. Easy fix, dex items are cheap.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Rararboker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like a low dex problem more than anything. Easy fix, dex items are cheap.

100 dex will be ~ 1.5 procs/min, 200 dex will be ~ 3 procs/min, both assume dual wield (1/min & 2/min if primary only). At ~ 1.5 procs/min average you are proc'ing less than once per mob on average vs. these poor overmatched low level mobs being crushed by groups with 10/25 and better weapons. Show me the lowbie sporting a 200dex and he won't be the subject of this thread.

My warrior wasn't seeing groups where proc'ing weapons were regularly useful until he was in his mid 40s. Before that going for best damage (Staff of Battle) and rooting liberally was always more effective, even in low-50s best damage + rootmania can be most effective and reliable depending on group makeup. If procs are the answer to lowbie agro control your group is doing something terribly wrong in the way of damage output.

tl;dr
proc's are overrated and smart play is underrated for agro control

[Raev]

I don't think any of the posters here quite realize the mathematical pit you have fallen into. A quick review: every time you swing at mobs, you generate hate. Since there is no damage bonus, your threat per second is purely dependent on your weapon ratios. In this case, the Dragonbone Shard has a ratio of 0.5 (13/26) while the Green Jade Broadsword has a ratio of .44 (11/25). This means that the rogue is generating more threat per second.

So, your warrior goes to taunt. But even if it works, he only moves to the rogue's level of threat + 1. So after 1-2 more seconds of swinging, the rogue is on top again. The only way out is a successful evade, and presumably that isn't happening much as the Rogue's hide skill will be low at L14. All of this is true even without backstabbing which of course only makes things worse.

The long term solution is to level up, which will increase the Rogue's evade chance and give the warrior access to some proccing weapons that don't suck (Frostbringer, Sarnak Warhammer, etc). At high levels Warriors don't have trouble holding threat vs Rogues; its the casters that are trouble.

In the short term, try buying a Fist of Zek and Jagged Long Sword (both 16/30, .53 ratio). As long as the Warrior's weapons have a 0.01% better ratio than the Rogue's, you should be good until L28 when the damage bonus kicks in. And my evil twin Kaev's point about rooting is spot on.

Also, are all your toons dwarves? If so, that's just [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Naethyn]

Weapon ratio is the deciding factor for aggro before level 37 (yaks) but, aggro is not purely based on weapon ratio. Higher damage hits will also generate more aggro. Damage for a hit is based on your Attack Rating (STR) vs the AC (level differences) of the defender. Higher Attack Rating will lead to higher damage on average and as a result more aggro. When I posted drink booze earlier it was not without reason. Higher levels will also decrease the AC of the target. Distance from the mob also plays a factor. Being closer to the mob will result in being the mob's target more often.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Weapon ratio is the deciding factor for aggro before level 37 (yaks) but, aggro is not purely based on weapon ratio. [FALSE:]]Higher damage hits will also generate more aggro. Damage for a hit is based on your Attack Rating (STR) vs the AC (level differences) of the defender. Higher Attack Rating will lead to higher damage on average and as a result more aggro.[Preceding claims are not true] When I posted drink booze earlier it was not without reason. Higher levels will also decrease the AC of the target. Distance from the mob also plays a factor. Being closer to the mob will result in being the mob's target more often.

NO, melee threat is strictly based on potential damage, not actual damage. I gave threat formula earlier in thread, to repeat:
((weapon base damage) * 2) + (level based damage bonus) = (melee threat per swing).

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Rararboker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like a low dex problem more than anything. Easy fix, dex items are cheap.

It's not a dex problem. Even with over 160 dex Obsidian Shards won't be good most of the time. I've tried it. Yes, if you get a proc or two you can hold aggro against a ragebringer, but most fights at 14-30 aren't long enough to even get one proc.

Honestly, most classes tank well enough for the teens, even low twenties, it might be worth switching strategy to having the rogue tank and have him evade BEFORE back stab instead of after, at least you are likely to get in more back stabs that way. Have the warrior berserk DPS?

[Naethyn]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NO, melee threat is strictly based on potential damage, not actual damage. I gave threat formula earlier in thread, to repeat:
((weapon base damage) * 2) + (level based damage bonus) = (melee threat per swing).

A miss does not generate as much aggro as a hit. Attack Rating increases your hit chance as well as average damage. Higher STR increases your Attack Rating. Distance from the mob also plays a factor. It is incorrect to say threat is purely based on weapon ratios.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A miss does not generate as much aggro as a hit.

Melee threat is based on swings, not hit/miss. If you need convincing, you can do the test yourself:

• Friend A aggros mob
• Friend B casts Stun
• Friend C melees with a 2H without a proc

You will find that it takes a constant number of swings for the mob to turn from Friend B to Friend C.

Originally Posted by Naethyn

It is incorrect to say threat is purely based on weapon ratios.

This is true, but not at his level. The damage bonus doesn't kick in till L28 (IIRC) and proccing weapons are garbage until 35-45 depending. Which is the whole point of my post: usually warriors can pick faster proccing weapons to generate more threat than rogues, but those options are not available to him, which is why he has fallen into a corner case.