Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > Class Discussions > Priests

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-21-2016, 01:17 PM
Jarnauga Jarnauga is offline
Fire Giant

Jarnauga's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 944
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
However possibilities it opens there is nothing alive in the game that you can kill with jbb that you can't kill without. The cost vs change to play is overrated. You're better suited bane/torp in those 8 sec then Cani the next. It's a vanity item.


Pras the barb shaman tho

It's like saying the soul well staff from vp is a vanity item for necro because you're better off casting vexing mordania
__________________
BLUE: Jarnauga Winterfell - Barbarian Shaman of The Tribunal

GREEN: Ineluki - Human Shadow Knight of Inoruuk


lulz
  #2  
Old 01-21-2016, 02:11 PM
iruinedyourday iruinedyourday is offline
Banned


Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It's like saying the soul well staff from vp is a vanity item for necro because you're better off casting vexing mordania
bane + cani/torp while it ticks > 8 sec of face tank immobility/inability to do anything else, while you wait for a tick's worth of your bane to land.

basically you are going to at best, at the absolute best, do one epic clicks worth of damage to the mob with your JBB

If a mob has enough hitpoints (aka is high enough level) to allow you to click the JBB that any times, you will require torp/cani during that time, because even slowed a mob of that level will be dealing enough damage.

Now, I don't know crap about necro, but comparing one class to another like that is a fools errand because every class/item value is extraordinarily non-comparable.

you have to look at the numbers, not how valuable an item is to another entirely different class.

the numbers say, there is no value to a JBB beyond vanity and playstyle.

*edit* I'd also like to quote this excellent post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by brecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yeah but Bane of Nife, once cast, will keep doing that damage for a bunch of ticks. Rather than click JBB every 8 seconds, you can canni / torpor and cast other dots, keep near fm, etc. At lvl 60 when you are trying to get casts of Bane, Pox, Epic, Malo, Slow, Insidious Decay, Haste (for pet), Torpor...you simply aren't going to have a lot of 8-second windows to spare for casting JBB. Not to mention switching in a Journeyman's staff and/or a Proc weapon on summoners.

What we are saying is: there are plenty of 60 shamans hunting big targets who don't see the value in a JBB. Roll Iksar if you want. I like Barb for the Barb Spiritists Hammer, the ultimate 35-50 leveling weapon.
I mean all that weve said aside, jbb can get you from 45-49 in a night of soloing. But once you hit 49 & are able to click that epic that was just sitting in your main hand until then, its like this:

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Last edited by iruinedyourday; 01-21-2016 at 02:22 PM..
  #3  
Old 01-21-2016, 03:20 PM
Jarnauga Jarnauga is offline
Fire Giant

Jarnauga's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 944
Default

Ok you wanna say that a mana free dmg item with a reasonable cast time and a reasonable dmg output is a vanity item, fine. I've been playing both an iksar shaman without jbb on live and a barbie here that got his jbb after getting 60 for 6 years so i think i know what i'm saying. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
__________________
BLUE: Jarnauga Winterfell - Barbarian Shaman of The Tribunal

GREEN: Ineluki - Human Shadow Knight of Inoruuk


lulz
  #4  
Old 01-21-2016, 03:45 PM
iruinedyourday iruinedyourday is offline
Banned


Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Ok you wanna say that a mana free dmg item with a reasonable cast time and a reasonable dmg output is a vanity item, fine. I've been playing both an iksar shaman without jbb on live and a barbie here that got his jbb after getting 60 for 6 years so i think i know what i'm saying. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cool I have two 60 shamans on p99 and have been killing end game shit for 2 years with both of them so op listen to whichever one of us sounds smarter. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

let me *edit* to less dickafy this post...

The reason it is a vanity item is because of a few things. 1 its cost vs change to play is purely a "playstyle" effect.... it by no means allows you to do anything that you cannot (either more efficiently or with equal efficency) do without it.

Because of the high (overestimated) value of the item the cost is astronomical compared to the change it provides in gameplay.

that 20k is better spent on bumping your HP by 150 or more and your DPS is better spent spamming bane/cani/torp than clicking that bracer every 8 seconds while doing nothing else.

*edit edit* but level 45-49 HOLY SHIT its bad fuckn ass. But the downside is you will really be bummed about the range of the epic after getting used to shooting totally OP ice lazers at mobs all night.
Last edited by iruinedyourday; 01-21-2016 at 03:57 PM..
  #5  
Old 01-21-2016, 03:59 PM
brecon brecon is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 432
Default

I think OP got his answer:

All races are fine. Some people really love the JBB. Some people really love playing Iksars. If you decide to play an Iksar Shaman, you are fine. You can't click the JBB, but you get some perks. Lots of barb, ogres, and troll shaman's don't bother with the JBB.

The real challenge is getting to 60 and getting enough plat or a guild to help with the epic, fungi (per-torpor), Torpor, Bane, Pox, Malo, Spirit of the Howler, Canni 4, and Focus of Spirit.
  #6  
Old 01-21-2016, 04:06 PM
iruinedyourday iruinedyourday is offline
Banned


Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I think OP got his answer:

All races are fine. Some people really love the JBB. Some people really love playing Iksars. If you decide to play an Iksar Shaman, you are fine. You can't click the JBB, but you get some perks. Lots of barb, ogres, and troll shaman's don't bother with the JBB.

The real challenge is getting to 60 and getting enough plat or a guild to help with the epic, fungi (per-torpor), Torpor, Bane, Pox, Malo, Spirit of the Howler, Canni 4, and Focus of Spirit.
yea this is the best way to put it
  #7  
Old 01-22-2016, 10:25 AM
koros koros is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,127
Default

Do the math, there's no possible way to achieve higher sustained dps than with a JBB for a shaman. Also you reduce the variance in hp when fighting hard mobs. It's a no brainer.
  #8  
Old 01-22-2016, 04:03 PM
brecon brecon is offline
Sarnak


Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 432
Default

Every 14 ticks you need to refresh your epic, and it costs about 1.5 ticks casting time. Lets consider what you do between epics clicks.

If you chain clicked your JBB you will do 263 damage every 8 seconds...or about 2985 damage in 90 seconds. Assuming zero resists and zero bash interrupts, and assuming you don't cast anything else over this period. If the mob is not a summoner, then you will need to either keep rooting or eat some hits.

Bane costs 425 mana. It does 1648 damage in 42 seconds (7 ticks). So if you cast 2x Bane, you would do more damage than the JBB over those 15 ticks. Bane takes 5 seconds to cast.

To recoup the mana cost from bane (425 mana), you would need to canni 4 six times, taking about 15 seconds. You would then need to topor once (200 mana, 6 seconds) which means 3 more cannis to recoup the mana, taking 6 seconds to cast.

To Recoup:
Spam JBB: ~3000 damage in 1.5 minutes mana neutral, barring interrupts and reroots. No free time.

Bane, Canni dance and Bane: ~3200 damage in 1.5 minutes mana and hp neutral. The total time casting (barring interrupts) is 42 seconds.

Bane + Canni dance gives you almost 48 additional seconds in which you can cast additional buffs (Pox!), canni dance more to rebuff and refresh slow, etc.

Now, IF YOU WANTED, you could use those 42 seconds to cast a few JBBs. But this is why I don't think JBB is a game breaker. Bane + Canni provides more damage with less time and less root breaks than JBB, and give you more time (therefore more flexibility).
  #9  
Old 01-26-2016, 11:41 AM
Jarnauga Jarnauga is offline
Fire Giant

Jarnauga's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 944
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brecon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Every 14 ticks you need to refresh your epic, and it costs about 1.5 ticks casting time. Lets consider what you do between epics clicks.

If you chain clicked your JBB you will do 263 damage every 8 seconds...or about 2985 damage in 90 seconds. Assuming zero resists and zero bash interrupts, and assuming you don't cast anything else over this period. If the mob is not a summoner, then you will need to either keep rooting or eat some hits.

Bane costs 425 mana. It does 1648 damage in 42 seconds (7 ticks). So if you cast 2x Bane, you would do more damage than the JBB over those 15 ticks. Bane takes 5 seconds to cast.

To recoup the mana cost from bane (425 mana), you would need to canni 4 six times, taking about 15 seconds. You would then need to topor once (200 mana, 6 seconds) which means 3 more cannis to recoup the mana, taking 6 seconds to cast.

To Recoup:
Spam JBB: ~3000 damage in 1.5 minutes mana neutral, barring interrupts and reroots. No free time.

Bane, Canni dance and Bane: ~3200 damage in 1.5 minutes mana and hp neutral. The total time casting (barring interrupts) is 42 seconds.

Bane + Canni dance gives you almost 48 additional seconds in which you can cast additional buffs (Pox!), canni dance more to rebuff and refresh slow, etc.

Now, IF YOU WANTED, you could use those 42 seconds to cast a few JBBs. But this is why I don't think JBB is a game breaker. Bane + Canni provides more damage with less time and less root breaks than JBB, and give you more time (therefore more flexibility).
I definitely agree with you. Great post. The issue with your post is that it only works when you're root/rotting and dmg output is the only thing you're worrying about.

Now go solo a summoning mob you have to slow/tank with a lot of hp that hits like a truck (say lodizal). You have to worry about healing yourself regularly and not canni too much to survive the next round of hits, and be conservative with mana to actually down the 35k hp of the mob. Add to this the slows and malo you'll have to refresh..

Let's say you're using pox and bane on this case. You're gonna have to malo (350 mana), slow (250 mana assuming you don't have any resists if you're very lucky), pox (430), bane (425), and then epic for 9 secs where you gonna get hit, double for 300+ dmg if you're lucky, probably gonna have to torpor right away so 200 mana.

There, you just used 1655 mana ( around half your mana pool if you have pretty good gear and in a ideal scenario with no resists) to do 5k dmg.. Not even 15% of the health of the mob. Now canni away while it's hitting for up to 400 to recast all that. You're gonna have to canni 17 times (more than that actually) with canni IV and lose 2,5k hp in the process. I'm wielding ToV gear and have 2,7k hp self buffed at best. Yes, with a mob hitting that hard, you're gonna have to torpor yourself in the process, and not just once.

You see where i'm getting at ? Now forget all the mana from pox and bane. You'll see that it's doable. So i stand by what i said earlier. You don't need jbb, it just opens lot of possibilities for soloing tough mobs.
__________________
BLUE: Jarnauga Winterfell - Barbarian Shaman of The Tribunal

GREEN: Ineluki - Human Shadow Knight of Inoruuk


lulz
  #10  
Old 01-26-2016, 01:12 PM
iruinedyourday iruinedyourday is offline
Banned


Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I definitely agree with you. Great post. The issue with your post is that it only works when you're root/rotting and dmg output is the only thing you're worrying about.

Now go solo a summoning mob you have to slow/tank with a lot of hp that hits like a truck (say lodizal). You have to worry about healing yourself regularly and not canni too much to survive the next round of hits, and be conservative with mana to actually down the 35k hp of the mob. Add to this the slows and malo you'll have to refresh..

Let's say you're using pox and bane on this case. You're gonna have to malo (350 mana), slow (250 mana assuming you don't have any resists if you're very lucky), pox (430), bane (425), and then epic for 9 secs where you gonna get hit, double for 300+ dmg if you're lucky, probably gonna have to torpor right away so 200 mana.

There, you just used 1655 mana ( around half your mana pool if you have pretty good gear and in a ideal scenario with no resists) to do 5k dmg.. Not even 15% of the health of the mob. Now canni away while it's hitting for up to 400 to recast all that. You're gonna have to canni 17 times (more than that actually) with canni IV and lose 2,5k hp in the process. I'm wielding ToV gear and have 2,7k hp self buffed at best. Yes, with a mob hitting that hard, you're gonna have to torpor yourself in the process, and not just once.

You see where i'm getting at ? Now forget all the mana from pox and bane. You'll see that it's doable. So i stand by what i said earlier. You don't need jbb, it just opens lot of possibilities for soloing tough mobs.
I was with you up to the point that you lie and say you'd use the jbb more efficiently in this scenario lol while you're Cani/torpping and not jbb'ing my dots are killing the mob. While you're jbb'ing and not Cani torpping the mob is killing you and all you're doing is 1 dots worth of dps.

You just haven't actually used this strat. That's why you don't know it doesn't work lol I bet you haven't even soloed tranix
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:22 AM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.