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  #1  
Old 06-14-2016, 04:19 PM
Calthaer Calthaer is offline
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Originally Posted by roadmixer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And thus we see the conflict. Some want to spend insane amounts of time on a game, and some do not or can't.

No game can meet everyone's needs anymore and only was played so much before because there was no choice.
Gamers have grown up. What was once the province largely of younger people has become more broad. The Boomers still aren't into video games, but Gen-X and older are - and they don't have the time. For middle-aged gamers, it's quality over quantity. Give me a memorable, unique, dynamic, story-driven experience that I can consume in a session with a defined, set, schedule-able limit. EQ is and was terrible with that (e.g., "poopsocking" - the requirement that undefined, limitless time is required to consumer certain content).

I definitely recall Horizons: Empires of Istaria. Played the beta, even. David Allen was definitely a visionary but I seem to recall he didn't really have the project management skills required to pull this whole thing off. It was huge and ambitious and some features probably should have never been discussed and kept on the back-burner for later (e.g., playable dragons). It did seem to want to have many of the features of dynamic content, though - IIRC, a bunch of undead taking over the world, ruining monuments and infrastructure, players having to combine their crafting and resource-gathering skills to restore them.
  #2  
Old 06-14-2016, 11:39 PM
Zuranthium Zuranthium is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmixer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
And thus we see the conflict. Some want to spend insane amounts of time on a game, and some do not or can't.

No game can meet everyone's needs anymore.
It's entirely possible for a single game to cater to both casual and heavy-playtime, offer various different styles of playing, and even support many forms of PvP, some of which can become popular e-sports.

I'm not sure how someone can say "I want an MMORPG where I don't have to devote as much time and thought. And that's a big reason why I'm on P99." -- The time requirement in this game is very high as compared to others. Perhaps this person means they like this game for being able to solo camp things that are on long respawns, thus they minimize the game and go do other things. Well, okay, but that's hardly playing the game if that's all you're going to do. You could do that regardless even if the game allowed for faster paced gameplay.

There's a big difference in talking about "casual vs. hardcore" than talking about "fast-food vs. enriching, immersive" gameplay. You can have a game that isn't fast-food junk while still catering part of it to casual gamers. For example, you could easily reduce downtime in EQ while still requiring the best group setups in order to beat the most difficult content and be the most efficient. That way anyone who logs on for an hour can feel they are doing something meaningful while they are on, in comparison to just "looking for healer". Random groups could form and be at least semi-effective with whatever they pick up.

Additionally, you can set the game world up better so that a wide level range of content is always within a reasonable walk. You don't need a stupid method like some portal hub and portals all over the place either, just have more interconnected zones (including interconnected dungeons that connect to above-ground zones) and place a wider range of content in the outdoor zones. You can also put a hard cap on how quickly people can level, such that nobody is rushing and instead enjoying the game experience. Those who want to play a lot can work on multiple characters or do various other things with their time, including PvP. If you set a game world up so that PvP is even required to unlock certain content and/or provides PvE rewards, then you will draw more people into that area of the game.

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Originally Posted by Calthaer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I definitely recall Horizons: Empires of Istaria. Played the beta, even. David Allen was definitely a visionary but I seem to recall he didn't really have the project management skills required to pull this whole thing off.
Well the beta, and the eventual game, was nothing like it was supposed to be. The downfall of the game had much less to do with David Allen's project management and mostly to do with how investors and other people in the company literally stole the company and the project from him - http://webz.us/hz/htm/wrh.htm
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2016, 08:57 AM
Calthaer Calthaer is offline
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Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Well the beta, and the eventual game, was nothing like it was supposed to be. The downfall of the game had much less to do with David Allen's project management and mostly to do with how investors and other people in the company literally stole the company and the project from him - http://webz.us/hz/htm/wrh.htm
I have read that story, long ago, and unfortunately it confirms the idea that David Allen did not have the management skills to see his vision to completion. As the article admits: "If David had known a bit more about business he would have never been in this situation – lesson learned." David readily admits that he made mistakes in that narrative - the first and most critical one being how he kept on Mr. Jones after he'd lied about his salary.

Forming a team (of co-workers, of investors) is the first and most critical step in leading it, and it's unfortunate for all of us that David didn't do well in that step of making Horizons. This doesn't at all excuse the unethical behavior of those working with him - but the real problem was that they were ever working with him at all. I really wish we were here today playing the game that he had in his head rather than dreaming about what it could have been. His website makes it sound like he did things much better with his "QoL" company - makes me want to take a look at Alganon.
  #4  
Old 04-20-2016, 01:42 AM
Tann Tann is offline
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my wallet anxiously awaits EQ3's cash shops, each of my characters will have his or her own cosmetic pet and all the transmogrified skins from classic EQ that they add in. Those old kunark clickie armour skins will probably be about 1.99 to 5.99 each.

for a "premium" monthly fee they'll let you link your old account to the new one, perks of this will be a title like "of Xegony" or "from the Nameless", a separate merc like pet that loots for you (requires hourly gold upkeep), a set of epic quality gear you'll never use, and of course a mount so you can get to the end game asap.

and of course the other bonuses for pre-order-early-access-day-1-dlc-day-2-dlc-head-start-premium-access-platinum-level-account
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Old 04-20-2016, 03:40 AM
Sancta Sancta is offline
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https://www.pantheonmmo.com/

Brad Mcquaid's EQ 1.5
  #6  
Old 04-20-2016, 12:52 PM
Llurendt Llurendt is offline
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Originally Posted by Sancta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/

Brad Mcquaid's EQ 1.5
I'm just watching, waiting and hoping. He screwed up big on his last project, though it looks as if he took it to heart and hired on actual businesspeople to help handle that side of things and keep him in line. We'll see what happens!
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:37 AM
Thulack Thulack is offline
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The issue is MMORPG's arent the "thing" anymore. MOBA's, FPS's are more popular and are more geared to the younger twitchy/ADHD generation. You will never get another MMORPG that will be the size of EQ or WoW during it peak.Even though i only played EQ for 13 years as i got older putting in the time to do it was not worth it. And companies are in this business to make money.
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  #8  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:55 PM
Kevris Kevris is offline
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Originally Posted by Thulack [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The issue is MMORPG's arent the "thing" anymore. MOBA's, FPS's are more popular and are more geared to the younger twitchy/ADHD generation. You will never get another MMORPG that will be the size of EQ or WoW during it peak.Even though i only played EQ for 13 years as i got older putting in the time to do it was not worth it. And companies are in this business to make money.
Kind of true, but keep hope.

Look at say, Elite: Dangerous. There's a genre that everyone thought was dead. Crowd-funding comes along, Braben presents a vision of something, people who are interested in that thing directly make it happen.

If someone comes along with a business model that can sustain an old-school game like EQ, it will succeed.

It's worked for Space Sims, why can't it work for proper MMO's?
  #9  
Old 04-20-2016, 07:38 PM
Kalex716 Kalex716 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kevris [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Kind of true, but keep hope.

Look at say, Elite: Dangerous. There's a genre that everyone thought was dead. Crowd-funding comes along, Braben presents a vision of something, people who are interested in that thing directly make it happen.

If someone comes along with a business model that can sustain an old-school game like EQ, it will succeed.

It's worked for Space Sims, why can't it work for proper MMO's?
The business model to sustain is the hard part.

Now a days, without some slightly aggressive monetization angles, you can't provide a game/service that lets its power users play for sometimes more than 200+ hours for only 15 dollars a month and end up being anything more than niche.

Back in the old days, it worked, because plenty of 15 buck a month casual users didn't have options. Most people that played EQ classic, sucked at it (didn't have the time) and were only content with not getting everything out of the game that they wished they could cause they had nothing else to play.
  #10  
Old 04-20-2016, 09:38 AM
One Tin Soldier One Tin Soldier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
An article I just finished on the demise of EQN which draws upon p99:

"There is a literal army of gamers waiting for that exact game; a significant niche market gravy train that has been waiting patiently (and increasing in spending power) for almost two decades to throw solid money at whomever would step up and do the job. Fan art has been painstakingly produced showing the potential of the idea. A large sub-culture of gamers continues to play EverQuest in its original form on the Project1999 emulation server, holding to the hope that sometime, somewhere, someone is going to get it right again."

The Lesson Behind The Fall of EverQuest Next
I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to refer to p99 players as an "army". There are enough to keep one server filled. A server they get to play on for free.

I don't know how well a real EQ remake would actually do. I have serious doubts if it would be financially successful.
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