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Old 10-26-2017, 09:59 AM
Raavak Raavak is offline
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Originally Posted by dbouya [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I remember the days where lguk had like 60-100 and even cazicthule dungeon had like 30+
In classic prior to Kunark the life expectancy of an undead froglok was .5 seconds.
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:14 AM
Dulu Dulu is offline
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They are the most overpowered class in MMO history.

An enchanter can charm a PET more powerful than the players in his group he's competing with.

But to piggyback off Yasi, I agree that they shouldn't be nerfed.

If they ever do another TLP or a P99 (Teams pvp PLEASE), I'd rather just see some minor tweaks, and perhaps buffs to player-tanks, and maybe Rogue/Ranger/Wizard DPS so that they aren't completely overshadowed by an NPC pet.
Last edited by Dulu; 10-25-2017 at 10:17 AM..
  #3  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:03 AM
Triiz Triiz is offline
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In late Velious, a rich geared monk is super OP too. With the mass amounts of plat and clickies like Puppet Strings on this server, there's few things an Enchanter can solo that a geared monk can't.

Monk also has the advantage of FD to break camps, where as Enchanters are usually using Calm which even with 255 CHA will have a fair amount of crit resists and usually if you get a crit resist on the first mob you're lulling you're either capping, trying to mez and camp, or dead. Add to this the near certainty that charm will break at the worst possible moment, usually as 5 mobs are charging you after a crit resist.

A monk with plat can charm, blind, root, 50% slow, complete heal, DS themselves, insta-cast Rune 4, mass amounts of 300hp heals, on top of the instant 25% of HP Mend heals every 6 min. Even without all of the clickies they can still solo a ton of high end mobs.
  #4  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:06 AM
Dulu Dulu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
In late Velious, a rich geared monk is super OP too. With the mass amounts of plat and clickies like Puppet Strings on this server, there's few things an Enchanter can solo that a geared monk can't.

Monk also has the advantage of FD to break camps, where as Enchanters are usually using Calm which even with 255 CHA will have a fair amount of crit resists and usually if you get a crit resist on the first mob you're lulling you're either capping, trying to mez and camp, or dead. Add to this the near certainty that charm will break at the worst possible moment, usually as 5 mobs are charging you after a crit resist.

A monk with plat can charm, blind, root, 50% slow, complete heal, DS themselves, insta-cast Rune 4, mass amounts of 300hp heals, on top of the instant 25% of HP Mend heals every 6 min. Even without all of the clickies they can still solo a ton of high end mobs.


Yeah, the difference is you're talking about less than 0.5% of the Monk population. Where as Enchanters, particularly on the TLP's (where death is meaningless) can be as effective right out of the box, naked.

I think the most pressing question is, "If you removed X from Enchanter, are they still OP?" if you answer yes, then they certainly are OP with X intact.

X could be:

-Charm
-Mez
-Clarity
-Haste / STR / Aug

Combined with the fact that Enchanters are almost entirely gear independent, and you have a broken class.
Last edited by Dulu; 10-25-2017 at 11:09 AM..
  #5  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:38 AM
Triiz Triiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yeah, the difference is you're talking about less than 0.5% of the Monk population. Where as Enchanters, particularly on the TLP's (where death is meaningless) can be as effective right out of the box, naked.

I think the most pressing question is, "If you removed X from Enchanter, are they still OP?" if you answer yes, then they certainly are OP with X intact.

X could be:

-Charm
-Mez
-Clarity
-Haste / STR / Aug

Combined with the fact that Enchanters are almost entirely gear independent, and you have a broken class.
I'm mostly talking about level 60. I don't know anything about TLP's, but on p99 a lot more than 0.5% of the level 60 monk population has access to most of those clickies excluding bladestoppers and Bio orb. Maybe puppet strings, but a lot of people in casual guilds have puppet strings and/or 200k now. Slows, roots, DS, 300hp heal, Complete heal are all relatively cheap or easily farmed and can make up for things like lack of TOV gear.

Sure Enchanter's are more powerful naked and at low levels. An Enchanter with like 100 CHA is going to have a shit load of charm breaks and no HP to survive them though.
  #6  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:47 AM
Dulu Dulu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm mostly talking about level 60. I don't know anything about TLP's, but on p99 a lot more than 0.5% of the level 60 monk population has access to most of those clickies excluding bladestoppers and Bio orb. Maybe puppet strings, but a lot of people in casual guilds have puppet strings and/or 200k now. Slows, roots, DS, 300hp heal, Complete heal are all relatively cheap or easily farmed and can make up for things like lack of TOV gear.

Sure Enchanter's are more powerful naked and at low levels. An Enchanter with like 100 CHA is going to have a shit load of charm breaks and no HP to survive them though.
The math for CHA's impact on charm is shoddy at best.

Also, if you need to invest 200k worth of gear onto a class to make it compete with a naked version of another class. Perhaps there is an underlying issue we should address?
  #7  
Old 10-25-2017, 07:04 PM
Raev Raev is offline
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I didn't feel like spending 10 hours glued to the keyboard waiting a charmed ilis knight to break 200x for really accurate conclusions. I felt like it was enough data to conclude that 200 -> 255 cha probably does not give a huge difference in average charm duration, perhaps 10%. For comparison, here is Propo's post showing the huge difference between 85 and 210 charisma: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...9&postcount=52 Or you can look at that post and see that even with a sample size of 10 the difference between L46 and L53 pets is huge and obvious.

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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.
The cold and timid souls would be you, of course. Or you could do the test yourself and prove me wrong!
  #8  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:47 AM
Spyder73 Spyder73 is offline
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2 simple changes - Take off the level restrictions on Bard mez/charm and give knights defensive disc, and all of a sudden P99 is actually pretty damn balanced. Druids and Wizards are not in as bad a place as some would make them seem... and they have ports
  #9  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:31 AM
Kohedron Kohedron is offline
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Definitely super good and definitely one of the best if not the best class when it comes to group/solo

Wouldn't go quite as far as that guy did though
  #10  
Old 10-25-2017, 12:17 PM
dbouya dbouya is offline
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I mean in anarchy online enchanters (renamed to bureaucrats) have everything enchanters have but they also get an experience gain group buff :-p

Although a level 10 mage can also just be buffed to summon a level 50 mage pet :-p (engineer/meta).

AO basically just cribbed EQ1 (came out 1-2 years later) only it was sci-fi and way more janky (although AO basically pioneered everything sony stole back for LDON in the base game).
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