Enchanter vs Bard

[Achilles93]

I was with a skilled enchanter the other day in group. It was humbling. Charmed NPC dps is amazing. I sang mana songs and snared, when charm broke I helped by mezzing the former pet while he recharmed etc. So I was not useless but it seemed like replacing me with another chanter would have made the group even better.

My question: at higher levels are bards passed over for groups? Do we compete with enchanters for group desirability? At high levels are there a zillion enchanters and fewer bards? I would like to raid on my bard; is there a glut of high end bards already?

[Raev]

I wouldn't totally discount your role in helping with breaks. When you have a Dire Wolf doubling for 250 or a Siren quadding for 180 with 70% haste and a Steel Hilted Flint Dagger, they can rip through a cloth class very easily. Having another class who can freely cast stun/mez or even root without having to channel through that really helps even an on-the-ball enchanter. So I think at high levels (= NPCs > 50) charm is much more a team effort.

Enchanters are so incredibly good because they fulfill two roles in the group (dps + cc/buffs). Shamans (tanking + cc/buffs) and Monks (tanking + pulling + dps) are superb for the same reason. Bards can do this too, though, by complementing their natural cc/buffs combination with either tanking (gear for AC and cast snare for aggro) or pulling (split with lull and then use the SS helm to pull mobs into camp while you sing songs normally).

Bards have a more interesting endgame role (enchanters mostly just buff) although really the only endgame role that matters is COH mage for FTE /cry

Anyway, in my opinion the best four classes in Classic EQ are Enchanter, Monk, Shaman, and Bard in some order. So you can't go wrong either way.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Achilles93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My question: at higher levels are bards passed over for groups? Do we compete with enchanters for group desirability? At high levels are there a zillion enchanters and fewer bards? I would like to raid on my bard; is there a glut of high end bards already?

Enc class only gets better as the levels progress. It's one of the strongest classes in the game, though quite weak in the beginning. If you've ever followed any of the solo and duo competitions, you'll notice enc is at or near the top of the ladder. Bards have that resist buff song [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Nuggie]

I think bards are more in demand at the moment due to lack of supply. For raids anyways.

Enchanter can solo in more places, pre velious. Not sure in velious.

[DarthMartigan]

As a bard, my favorite groups involve an enchanter and bard together. Get a few dps together, a solid tank and cleric, and a bard can pull and over pull because everyone's going to have mana and the mobs are going to die super fast.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Achilles93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it seemed like replacing me with another chanter would have made the group even better.

though a group of 6 enchanters is OP a regular group with 1 enchanter 1 bard and 1 MORE enchanter, receives no extra mana from that 3rd chanter.

I would consider replacing any other dps class if another enchanter was available, while keeping the bard as they are providing at the very least more mana regen for the party.

[JurisDictum]

Bard is a better raid class atm. Ideally, all or near-all raid groups would have bards in them. You really only need 2-4 enchanters for the vast majority of raids. As interactive and fun as the Enchanter class can be -- Bard is one of the only classes that is even more interactive and has even more possible uses.

It's hard to say who is faster at leveling. Enchanters get easy chardok groups...but Bards have swarm kiting. Both can charm or group (but id give the edge to enchanter here).

[Ivory]

Necromancer!!

Pet
Charm
Mez
Twitch

Mega Dots
Lifetaps
Heals

FD!!!

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[Troxx]

For raw cc, in most cases enchanters will win handily.

In a direct dps comparison, a charming enchanter will always win.

Best not to directly compare. On my bard I've pulled off steady CC on 5-15 mobs continuously for over a half hour while the monk kept chain pulling anything and everything he could find up (God bless lv 54 aoe string snare) - ench can't do that. In the right circumstances, we shine with CC if you know what you're doing. At other points we are more than sufficient.

Bards are just different and how well they do depends a lot on skill. Many bards are terrible, and most of the rest are mediocre.

At the high end, I can feed mana faster than an enchanter, heal everyone in the group for 50/tick, tank content pretty easily, cc like a beast in some scenarios and adequately enough to get the job done in most other situations. Pulling is a cinch.

But ...

An ench with pet will always out-dps me.
An enchanter will give better and more reliable haste.
An enchanter will give (I'd argue) BETTER crowd control most of the time.
A mediocre ench will do more for a group than a mediocre bard.


The nice thing is, bard and ench actually complement each other nicely - especially if the chanter is charming.

[Loke]

Enchanter and Bard are the two classes I've played a lot recently and I'd say it ultimately comes down to your play style and what youre doing. In a normal situation, I find Bards to be the more fun class because over all I think the bard is the more difficult class, so in a boring exp grind or farm group it makes me more engaged in what I'm doing. I played a Bard before I picked up Enchanter and I distinctly remember thinking that playing the enchanter was a lot like playing a bard, but on easy mode. AE stuns and mez enable you to temporarily hit the pause button in "oh shit" situations. On the Bard, I felt like I always had to be hyper-aware and have contingency plans prepared for when things went south, where in contrast the enchanter let me just kind of play things by ear (to some extent, obviously having a contingency plan is always preferable).

I think in small group and solo settings the enchanter is unquestionably the stronger class. Even a bad, lazy enchanter can drastically improve a group, where as a bard actually needs to be good at the their class to really make people realize how useful they can be. A bard also needs to know more about other classes than most characters since they need to be able to readily determine what role they should play in the group. An enchanter can join any group, toss out mana buffs and haste, charm a pet, and be golden. A bard on the other hand needs to decide which songs would make the largest impact to the group set up, and determine what duties they can ignore since someone else in the group is more suited for that task.

I think I'd rather raid on my bard, but since I just play casually now I end up playing the chanter a lot more. If I were leveling I'd play the bard if I wanted to group, and the enchanter if I wanted to solo/duo. I would definitely suggest that anyone who loves their bard give chanter a try. Both were classes that never appealed to me, but are now my favorite (along with monk). Both will probably always be in high demand raiding, so if that is what you want to do, either will be fine.