Spells: Torpor Mana Expenditure - Page 10

Dolalin · #91 03-22-2021, 02:01 PM

Another post on the EQ message boards, October 30th and November 11th 2000 (before either of those patches):

Quote:

The main problem w the shaman spells post 50 is because we learned to make PoS utility spells into major freeking battle tactics spells. Now they are so damn afraid that we will own the game like necros and enchanters already do they nerfed all of our spells before we even got then, especially the dog and topor!

BTW, Where the hell is our damage upgrade at 53? Is that supposed to be our bracer? so we are now warriors that have to count on our equipment for our best spells? The utility spells have to have UTILITY! Recode spirit of scale and make it a group SoW! We got it first, we should have a group spell of it!DUH! UN-Nerf topor, it is uncastable as is, and is less effective than regular heals, what was the point then? Get rid of group charisma and make it AoE maloisi! Give some utility back to this utility class JEEZ!

Quote:

4. Torpor: Egads, this has be discussed enough, why did you mutilate one of our best spells. (Awefully Nerfed )

http://web.archive.org/web/200012080.../024844-4.html

Dolalin · #92 03-22-2021, 03:54 PM

Found one on the newsgroups, May 2000:

Quote:

5/3/2000

Torpor is nice at 60, but only useful on warriors/monks/rogues...the -200
mana it sticks on the target makes it worthless for anyone else.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.game...m/sNcLieNA5hIJ

Baler · #93 03-22-2021, 04:38 PM

Looking at the patch notes on the wiki mentioning,
I think some of it was an unintentional bug based on the wording.

Quote:

November 16, 2000
Today's follow-up patch addresses the following issues from yesterday's patch
* The spell Torpor received an unintentional reduction in effectiveness.

January 17, 2001
* Last week's patch attempted to fix Celestial Elixir, Celestial Healing, and Torpor, so that they would stack another similar spell, unintentionally causing it to stop stacking with standard regeneration spells. This has been fixed. The downside to this fix is that these spells will now overwrite the "Call of Bones" series. As the three former spells are cast to save a character's life, this solution appears to be the most beneficial for all of those involved.

February 21, 2001
*Created a new spell effect for Celestial Healing, Celestial Elixir, and Torpor. This will allow them to stack with all other spells, save spells of the same type (Heal over time). Prior to this, all heal-over- time spells followed the same rules as regeneration spells.

August 15, 2001
Some stacking issues with Torpor have been corrected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't ever remember the torpor soloing I see here done in era even through Velious. I didn't play a shaman though so I left this alone. Interesting reads. Whatever is classic, do that.

There were far less people playing shaman back in the day. It was viewed as a weak or strange class. It's hard for many who have played P99 to look back and remember this.

DMN · #94 03-22-2021, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Looking at the patch notes on the wiki mentioning,
I think some of it was an unintentional bug based on the wording.

These aren't even talking about -mana per tick so not sure the relevance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There were far less people playing shaman back in the day. It was viewed as a weak or strange class. It's hard for many who have played P99 to look back and remember this.

Indeed. it's actually kind of funny enchanters/bards/shaman all had extremely low populations through most of the classic time period.

Baler · #95 03-22-2021, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These aren't even talking about -mana per tick so not sure the relevance.

I understand but it seems strange that torpor has gone through several bugs revisions.
Unless I missed proof that the mana part was an intentional design choice by the original developers.

Or maybe we just missed it this go-around on green. Burnout use to remove/reduce pet regen and that never made it on green for the range of months it took place on live.

Dolalin · #96 03-22-2021, 04:58 PM

I have the patch zips from both the Nov15 patch and the Nov16 patch, along with both spdats. When you diff Torpor the only difference is that they removed the mana drain component.

Seems really cut and dried to me.

Nov15 patch unzipped:

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...Patch_20001115

Nov16 patch unzipped:

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...Patch_20001116

Spdats and EQCaster (I put these in their own folder for convenience, file dates are 1 day later I guess from the guy making the zips the next day, or because Taiwan is across the date line):

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...e/master/spdat

Check for yourself [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dolalin · #97 03-22-2021, 05:10 PM

Visualised in Excel

Dolalin · #98 03-22-2021, 06:06 PM

Okay found a smoking gun on Everlore with a Gordon quote from November 15th 2000, the day of patch #1:

Quote:

Even more evening posts from Gordon
Catalyst [11/15/2000-6:32:42 PM]

Quote:

Yet another shaman nerf!!

Word from test is that VI has nerfed Torpor even more. For those of you that dont know this spell it is one of our level 60 spells and is a healing/regen type spell... in 24 seconds it does 1200 points heal BUT it slows the targets attack rate by 30%, roots them, and takes away 50 mana from target. It costs 200 mana to cast. Now it cant be cast on any class that doesnt have mana and it cant be cast on pets.

Some of this sounds unintentional. Let me corner some people today and see what the deal is.

Can you give a quick explanation in how it differs from what it was doing as well? Thanks.

-Gordon

https://web.archive.org/web/20001117...om/default.asp

The thread on the EQ forums wasn't saved by Wayback but I think this is enough.

The mana drain introduced in April was unintentional. It was only caught because Gordon happened to read a comment by a guy who flagged up yet another restriction added on Test, that it couldn't be cast on targets without mana pools.

Verant reviewed the change and reverted the new Torpor restrictions on Test, and also undid the Mana Drain component they'd introduced back in April.

Mystery solved.

Baler · #99 03-22-2021, 06:30 PM

I concede, torpor is actually a Curse spell and not a healing spell.
Even the definition preludes to this context:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/torpor

Sabin76 · #**100** 03-22-2021, 06:40 PM

The mana drain may not have been unintentional in and of itself. It rather sounds like the consequences of that drain (i.e. not being able to cast it on classes without mana or pets) was the unintentional part. And rather than try to code in exceptions, it was probably far easier to simply get rid of the mana drain component.