Raid Mobs up for Grabs

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Quizy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't believe in training cokcblocking or poopsocking.

I believe in mobilizing for raid targets after they spawn.. which is what TMO does... we do not set 15 people on spawns and wait for them..

Not sure who you are referring to but ALOT of servers including most importanlt Veeshan was COMPETITION For raid mobs..

Sounds like you started playing EQ after LDON and instancing came out.. Im not trying to flame you here im just saying this:

Everyone plays the game different.. we arent BREAKING the RULES playing the way we play.. we just all played competitively in classic and for you to tell me my way is wrong is just as stupid as me calling your playstyle wrong(which i have never done)...

best of luck to you and your playstyle.. mine will NOT change.

All I'm asking for, is for people to acknowledge the fact that not all servers were about FFA competition, because it was certainly not the case.

Also, back then it was definitely not a 24/7 job game to kill dragons, at least for us. And if it was the case for some other people, if you can't see how it sounds wrong that the same people 12 years later want to keep doing so in the first place, there is nothing that can be done.

Lastly, I'm all for competition, but how is that to be exclusive with some sort of rotation while leaving some mobs open for mobilization and competition? Seriously, would that kill your fun to not have to do it for all targets but only for a subset against a renewed and credible competition? Which piece of gear don't you have already would that prevent you to get? As we speak, some players can dream again about doing their epic with the same amount of time invested in the past for the next two weeks, without being forced to join the mainstream guild, which let's be honest here, doesn't have the best reputation around here and for a good reason (despite all the spinning going on around).

And on Live, there was no variance, which definitely plays a role in enforcing long tracking sessions on players and having to log at any hour of the day. But tell me, a bit of history here, why was variance put in the first place, if it was not to circumvent the plaguing poopsocking and FTE issues which existed then?

I'm now eagerly waiting for Nilbog's ideas to restore a bit of the classic feeling I had like many other players. And if you're smart, you should also understand why a casual player's opinion should matter as much as somebody willing to invest all his time into the game. Playing more than other people should not entitle the right to tell how everybody else should play, even more since it was not the case for them on live.

P.S: in my opinion, a subset of the dragons (let's say at least half to begin with) should be open for rotation, with some sort of entry test would be best. Add some rules about time to engagement, and number of wipes allowed. Tiering may not be the best way, since it opens up for bias and never ending bitching if not done perfectly. Reduce by a lot the variance, and change the FTE rules with some sort of announcement, which should be done by either the mob itself, or the players themselves.
Make it so the presence of a GM is not required, and just a simple log could quickly let the GMs know who was right and who was wrong. And ban for at least 2 weeks the incriminated guild each time proven wrong. Would quickly change the spirit into a more respectful way.

P.P.S: you can learn from history. Funny how what you describe happened exactly the same way on Fippy Darkpaw: http://www.fippydarkpaw.com/news/show/517883

Read that part well:

When PoP came around the server had been in full tilt competition mode for every single target from classic through luclin for a full year. No spawn apart from Innoruuk was ever up for more than a day, or extremely rarely, two days. Friendships had been forged but usually with one hand on the holster. Guilds were constantly suspicious of each other and for the most part suspected the worst in any given scenario. Players could not enter a zone without someone else suspecting someone was going to get sniped. It had been, after all, a full year of fighting for every scrap of content. Agreements had been made and broken, GM rotations had been implemented, confused, and dropped. Every guild continued to feel like they were on their own and had to battle for their rights of enjoying content.

At this point guild leaders came together and decided enough was enough. Soon after, an agreement had been made on PoP flagging which had been met with incredible success. Guilds were progressing, competition was still available, but everyone got a piece of the pie. Fippy was starting to come together as a community.

They had the exact same issue than here (people who were on a heavy competitive server enforcing their playing style on other servers which didn't.
Some sort of rotation was enforced by the staff but made no sense (tiered, but still allowed for cockblocking access to content).
And reading from this, people who think Velious will solve the competition issues with the current ruleset are naive at best, self-interested at worse.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All I'm asking for, is for people to acknowledge the fact that not all servers were about FFA competition, because it was certainly not the case.

Also, back then it was definitely not a 24/7 job game to kill dragons, at least for us. And if it was the case for some other people, if you can't see how it sounds wrong that the same people 12 years later want to keep doing so in the first place, there is nothing that can be done.

Lastly, I'm all for competition, but how is that to be exclusive with some sort of rotation while leaving some mobs open for mobilization and competition? Seriously, would that kill your fun to not have to do it for all targets but only for a subset with a renewed competition?

And on Live, there was no variance, which definitely plays a role in enforcing long tracking sessions on players and having to log at any hour of the day. But tell me, a bit of history here, why was variance put in the first place, if it was not to circumvent the plaguing poopsocking and FTE issues which existed then?

I'm now eagerly waiting for Nilbog's ideas to restore a bit of the classic feeling I had like many other players. And if you're smart, you should also understand why a casual player's opinion should matter as much as somebody willing to invest all his time into the game. Playing more than other people should not entitle the right to tell how everybody else should play, even more since it was not the case for them on live.

P.S: in my opinion, a subset of the dragons (let's say at least half to begin with) should be open for rotation, with some sort of entry test would be best. Add some rules about time to engagement, and number of wipes allowed. Tiering may not be the best way, since it opens up for bias and never ending bitching. Reduce by a lot the variance, and change the FTE rules with some sort of announcement, which should be done by either the mob itself, or the players themselves.
Make it so the presence of a GM is not required, and just a simple log could quickly let the GMs know who was right and who was wrong. And ban for at least 2 weeks the incriminated guild each time proven wrong. Would quickly change the spirit into a more respectful way.

P.P.S: you can learn from history. Funny how what you describe happened exactly the same way on Fippy Darkpaw: http://www.fippydarkpaw.com/

Read that part well:



And people who think Velious will solve the competition issues with the current ruleset are naive at best, self-interested at worse.

variance is the only thing that has made this a 24/7 job.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

variance is the only thing that has made this a 24/7 job.

This.

It's not classic, and of course the top end guilds are the ones who can put more time into tracking huge windows. Blaming TMO for having the time to track is dumb. Lobbying the devs to remove variance is smarter because, like with the patch when everything respawned (and you knew it ahead of time), mobs will respawn at a set time (which you will know ahead of time if you did any reconnaissance at all).

Personally, I think a more interesting tactic is to implement PvP for all 55+ toons on the server. Would take care of a lot of issues such as the following:

1. That lone gnome sitting on top of spawn waiting to FTE.

2. "Raid Force" will be a moot point as the PvP "winners" will be the only raid force left for a given spawn.

3. Revival of server.

4. See #3.

[Galilao]

lol there is a server where levels 50 can PvP for raid mobs, you know what happens?

Everyone joins one ENORMOUS guild and the whole server dies.

[aerokella]

I may have to come back and play blue for a bit now that its kinda friendly raid wise!

[Supaskillz]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This.

It's not classic, and of course the top end guilds are the ones who can put more time into tracking huge windows. Blaming TMO for having the time to track is dumb. Lobbying the devs to remove variance is smarter because, like with the patch when everything respawned (and you knew it ahead of time), mobs will respawn at a set time (which you will know ahead of time if you did any reconnaissance at all).

Personally, I think a more interesting tactic is to implement PvP for all 55+ toons on the server. Would take care of a lot of issues such as the following:

1. That lone gnome sitting on top of spawn waiting to FTE.

2. "Raid Force" will be a moot point as the PvP "winners" will be the only raid force left for a given spawn.

3. Revival of server.

4. See #3.

how is pvp the answer? Clearly the red server was so successful that we should make the blue server pvp too.

I agree that variance is not and ideal solution. Tracking mobs sucks and for me camping my main out near a spawn point or mobilization point like kc also sucks because I like to play my main. But with all that said when everyone knows the spawn time it makes it impossible for gms. Suppose tmo, bda and divinity are all sitting in traks lair when he spawns. Trak spawns, immediately aggroes, and everyone is within range. What can the gms do, who gets the mob?

I do not know what competition was like on servers that had it back on live(mine did not), but it seems pretty dumb to mobilize after a mob spawns when you know exactly when that is and can mobilize a few minutes before it does. Enlighten me those of you who had competition on live, what prevented 2 guilds from sitting on a spawn point and it being a total mess.

[Nietche]

How did the red server fail?

Simple.

It was not classic.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Supaskillz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enlighten me those of you who had competition on live, what prevented 2 guilds from sitting on a spawn point and it being a total mess.

Simple.

PvP.

Was on Rallos Zek.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Galilao [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol there is a server where levels 50 can PvP for raid mobs, you know what happens?

Everyone joins one ENORMOUS guild and the whole server dies.

This will never happen. BDA/VD and TMO and IB (if they came back) really don't like each other enough to join the same guild for the purpose of loot.

The stage is ripe for 55 + pvp. Of course there would have to be guidelines like with any other policy, but it would solve a lot of issues and would make GM involvement on some things moot.

[Supaskillz]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simple.

PvP.

Was on Rallos Zek.

The great majority of eq players were not on red. Classic eq for most of us is blue.

Obviously not looking for more the answer to everything is pvp posts, seen plenty of those on these forums. Still wanting to hear from those on how competition worked with fixed spawn times on their blue servers.