If you are Christian and are in the military , will you go to heaven if you kill ?

[Faerie]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sure this all goes over well in whatever drum circle you spend your time with and all... but you didn't in anyway outline why we all benefit from Christianity or appreciate the beliefs of modern Christians. Nor did you fully acknowledge that Christian beliefs have demonstrably negative impacts on other people's lives.

We benefit from Christianity for the same reasons we benefit from any mythology: it's a path to "salvation". Salvation in the Christian sense means accepting yourself and others for their human faults, and accepting that God made the decision to suffer for your sins in order to let you back into the Kingdom. It's like being accepted back into the Garden of Eden after experiencing enough of existence without it to comprehend what you (humanity as a whole) did wrong, and why life is so much better with God.

Salvation according to my personal belief will be something akin to absolute contentedness, once I've trained my mind and experienced my soul enough to "overcome", or completely comprehend human fault and human greatness, to the point where I can feel the Awesome truths of existence in my heart without letting my head get in the way.

That probably sounds like meaningless blather to you, and that's okay. It's difficult to explain these things, both because I'm bad with words and because language is always a barrier when it comes to expressing the mythos. Here's one way to think of things:

There are two kinds of truth in this universe; those of logos (logic, order; clearly defined rights and wrongs) and mythos (myth, chaos; great mysteries of the universe). Myth in the sense I am speaking does not mean "falsity"; it actually can't be considered in terms of facts and falsities. Everyday problem solving, math, science; these are all expressions of logos. Mythos is the side of existence that defies reason, but we all experience.

"How does human procreation happen?" This question is answered through the means of science.

"For what purpose do humans procreate?" This question is experienced through the means of mythology and religion. There is no clear answer (unless you choose to misinterpret my meaning), but we all share in the experience of seeking meaning and purpose in our own lives. Myth and religion are our tools for experiencing that meaning and purpose, and expressing any of those great truths in any literal sense is impossible.

Christianity, as much as any of the other great human myths, is one way to experience the mythos. And any bad things that have come about from Christian belief were really just human fault, which any true Christian looks to stop from happening. Just like the rest of us, the Christians are human and prone to error.

To put that into language you might understand; you wouldn't blame the study of physics for the improper calculation of a space mission that resulted in human death, would you?

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've yet to hear critics of religion claim that the bible doesn't have historical and cultural significance. I'm sure most skeptics will agree with me that study of the bible and biblical beliefs are great if done in a secular and objective way. This is a far cry from actually believing that the Bible comes from God, and provides good moral instruction.

You can't expect religious works, even the great ones, to translate to anything remotely worthwhile in the literal language of logos. It's all figurative, and must be considered as such.

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To me, what is actually written in the bible does matter. Because that's all the bible is at the end of the day, a book. And considering there is absolutely no reason anyone should find the book credible to begin with, it disturbing people base their life and thinking around it.

Yes, exactly! The Bible is a wonderful book of stories, that should be interpreted figuratively. It doesn't have to be a credible source of facts, because instead it's a credible source of figurative truths about the universe. Why is it disturbing that people base their lives around it? It's a wonderful expression of what it means to be human!

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I occasionally remind people that the book they hold up as the pinnacle of morality, is full of immoral instruction. The goal is to get them to channel whatever critical thinking abilities they have, toward their unjustified beliefs. Because it is important for humans to use their reasoning abilities when it comes to matters of morality and values. Blindly deferring to authorities is an extremely detrimental behavior to human progress. We know this because of books like the Bible and Mein Kampf.

Critical thinking is an expression of logos, and really has nothing at all to do with religion. Beliefs of this nature also shouldn't be attempted to be justified in the way you mean, because it's impossible and pointless. "Christian science" is blasphemy, and a terrible mistake some people make.

The obvious problem you have of being unable to understand what was like second nature to most human civilizations for the vast majority of human existence is widespread and frighteningly common in modern day people. Comparatively speaking, this shift from a balanced logos/mythos oriented mindset to one that greatly favors logos is a new human development, and I think it's going to take a massive epidemic (or 3) of sorts before we realize that we're doing is wrong. It's something I suffer from, too, being born where and when I was. Apathy, angst, existential crises... let's see just where this chapter of humanity leads us heh.

[Faerie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UPawN-N3Lg