Patch Notes: Monday, September 5th, 2016

[Drazyx]

i played classic on 33.6kbs modem, 166mhz computer, first voodoo gpu. my first dropped connection lock up from AOE was by a wizard in WC next to dervs, pulled the entire zone and LDd some of our group members. swarming and AOE bombing DID NOT exist in all the glory that is believed; not classic. Even the cheaters bought entire computers to use macroquest on, because no one knew anything about PCs but a select few. I swear i smell millennials arguing about their 1.2ghz first computers here.

[bigbard1]

@staff

Do you feel like this change maybe 4 or 5 years ago would have made the server less toxic and populated at the top?

[getoffmylawn]

This just dawned on me..

If the 25 mob cap on aoe songs was put in with regards to helping other players against those said bards from keeping all the mobs in a zone to themselves, its actually counterintuitive.

I pulled about 40 per swarm the other night in a few swarms. After the first 25 went down after about 5 minutes, I realized that new batch of mobs, all with 100% hp, were only staying out of the zone longer for other players. So, instead of a bard pulling everything in the zone and the timers on those mobs resetting how the normally would before the patch, I was keeping a lot more mobs than there should be away from other players.

Just another reason this 25 mob cap is a bad idea.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by getoffmylawn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This just dawned on me..

If the 25 mob cap on aoe songs was put in with regards to helping other players against those said bards from keeping all the mobs in a zone to themselves, its actually counterintuitive.

I pulled about 40 per swarm the other night in a few swarms. After the first 25 went down after about 5 minutes, I realized that new batch of mobs, all with 100% hp, were only staying out of the zone longer for other players. So, instead of a bard pulling everything in the zone and the timers on those mobs resetting how the normally would before the patch, I was keeping a lot more mobs than there should be away from other players.

Just another reason this 25 mob cap is a bad idea.

Admits to kiting mobs to prevent other players from killing them. Please suspend.

The right answer is to stop pulling at 25.

[Kender]

yeah but if you pulled 100+ like a lot of bards were, the ones that died in the first 1 or 2 waves have all repopped already and are available for others to kill before you have finished them all off.

also... if you are ae'ing a pack of 100, a group could pop down right beside you and pull mobs from you pack that aren't being damaged. you cant complain because there are 2 rules you are actually breaking. firstly, zone disruption and secondly, deliberate stall tactics on killing a target.

[Kender]

lets face it, anyone that complains about this rule is only doing so because they cant screw others over now by dominating so many spawns

[salimoneus]

Still most impressed by all the hard work the devs and mods are putting into the project. Much props, I can't wait for the day the fresh PvE (blue) server opens and I can finally do a crushbone raid with Haynar, Nilbog, and others who have been waiting.

[getoffmylawn]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Admits to kiting mobs to prevent other players from killing them. Please suspend.

The right answer is to stop pulling at 25.

I've pulled in total maybe less than 50 swarms during the entire time I've played on this server. I'm close to 50 now and will never have to pull another swarm again soon. I highly, highly, highly doubt I'm preventing anyone from leveling. No more than the next bard or kiter.

If the 25 mob cap on aoe songs was put in with regards to helping other players against those said bards from keeping all the mobs in a zone to themselves, its actually counterintuitive.

I pulled about 40 per swarm the other night in a few swarms. After the first 25 went down after about 5 minutes, I realized that new batch of mobs, all with 100% hp, were only staying out of the zone longer for other players. So, instead of a bard pulling everything in the zone and the timers on those mobs resetting how the normally would before the patch, I was keeping a lot more mobs than there should be away from other players.

I did that maybe twice to try and get a feel of what it would be like if I pulled more than 25 mobs now. All the devs are doing is cherry picking and nerfing a class that shouldn't be nerfed. And never was nerfed the entire time in EQ up until now. Giving the reason "processing power wasn't strong enough back then," when it was. No one remembers swarm kiting on live? I do. I also remember grouping as a cleric in two wizard, two enchanter, puller, healer, aoe groups. Don't you remember clipping plane waaaay down and pointing your camera straight up or down while zoomed into first person? It wasn't lag free back then, but it was do-able. And somewhat well with the right tricks.

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Admits to kiting mobs to prevent other players from killing them. Please suspend.

The right answer is to stop pulling at 25.

You have this sense of selfishness yourself, in that the game was designed with bards having the ability to do this. I don't think, the original, classic devs put a 25 mob limit on bards and any other aoeing class because that's how they wanted it. So you're saying someone should be suspended for playing a class how it was meant to be played back in 1999? On a server called project 1999? Your 25 mob opinion is better than the original EQ devs opinions on how the game was meant to be designed? In the years of trial and error in potentially the greatest rpgmmo ever created, you don't think those old devs would have noticed bards and other are classes needed a nerf like a patch as big as this last one?

For years since 1999 up until whenever, actual "live everquest," stopped being "live everquest" bards, wizards, and Enchanters were able to enjoy their class fully as they were intended to be enjoyed. This meant and should still mean picking that class at character select, should give you the ability to kite as many mobs as you want. Because, that is classic. 100% true to 1999 everquest as it was meant to be.

I think this change is a step in the wrong direction if p99 is truly meant to replicate everquest as it was then. I've always wanted to try a Bard and be able to pull those massive swarms unlike any other class. I'm sure a lot of other people want to do that to. Now they can't. Every class has their own type of "special ability" except for maybe.. Rangers? Shit, I'd trade being able to port around on my bard for being able to swarm. That's their ONE "special power" they're less than mediocre on the wide range of skills they have. They have a lot, but they're all gimped compared to the base classes spells. This was their one "talent" to really shine at, and now it's nerfed. Bye, classic bards. You will be truly missed.

So now what? If people want to be able to play wizards, bards, enchanters, clerics, and any other character that can pull an aoe group's swarm, how they were meant to be back then, they have to go pay on steam monthly to get the game how it was meant to be? But they can't even do that there, like it was then anymore because, it isn't all "classic".

This patch changed a HUGE part of the game for a lot of classes and players. I like this project because they've strived to keep things exactly as they were. This makes it less so. I don't see how more people don't feel the same.

- - -

I know this huge wall of text might get read by one or two people, but I have to reiterate what I meant in my original post. If this change was put in because people were complaining about massive swarm kites- - if bards were to pull more than 25 (no one wants to count mobs while they're pulling and they don't, because you can still kite more than 25 mobs) and they are, and will, because it's still easier to pull more than 25 and just kill them after the initial 25 go down in your swarm.. What I'm saying is, this change actually makes it worse for other players in terms of mobs being taken away from the field.

So, if a Bard pulls 50 mobs now, that's 25 mobs being killed by their slow ass dots in say, what? 5-10mins on a Bard with a non-twinked horn?. On top of that, 25 more mobs are in tow behind the bard waiting to be killed (it's just easier to grab a big ass swarm instead of counting while dodging other mobs) making respawn times on those unhit mobs even longer for other players. because, those 25 other mobs that were pulled have to wait even longer now to be killed because the dots only hit 25 at a time now. As a shitty example, add 5-10 more mins on other players having to wait for those mobs to spawn back on what used to be only 5-10 mins to kill a whole swarm.

It just makes everything worse for everyone (not just bards) if this patch change was intended to make more mobs available for everyone, besides bards. Even if that was a latter on "killing two birds with one stone" thing with putting "cpu power wasn't as strong back then" as the number one reason as to why this change was made.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by getoffmylawn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have this sense of selfishness yourself, in that the game was designed with bards having the ability to do this.

1.) I'm the selfish one? I'm not the one bitching that I can't kill every mob in the zone, nor am I the one pulling more mobs than I can kill, just to make it easier on myself while simultaneously keeping others from killing mobs.
2.) Show me the docs that the Verant devs published saying this is how the game was designed to be played. Nowhere in the class description in any of the Verant published material does it say that bards are good at and known for killing 100 mobs at once.

[getoffmylawn]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1.) I'm the selfish one? I'm not the one bitching that I can't kill every mob in the zone, nor am I the one pulling more mobs than I can kill, just to make it easier on myself while simultaneously keeping others from killing mobs.
2.) Show me the docs that the Verant devs published saying this is how the game was designed to be played. Nowhere in the class description in any of the Verant published material does it say that bards are good at and known for killing 100 mobs at once.

I could go into crazy detail on that again, but eh whatever, too early in the day to argue.

What I will say is, why did the original developers put spells into the game that are able to hit every mob in an area around you (mainly if you are a bard, wizard, enchanter, whatever)? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think they had in mind that players would do different exciting things with those tools instead of boring single pulls all the time. You can enjoy the game by playing one of those classes too ya know? I've put up with bard kites before and never once complained about it. Why all of a sudden are bards "ruining EQ"?/? wtf is happening?