Is the Raid Scene on Project 1999 Toxic?

[loramin]

Yes it's toxic, and that's by design. The staff wants competition (they literally make up entirely unclassic things, like races, to enable competition). Competition breeds toxicity.

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People often cite Teal as being this magical "non-toxic" version of green

Teal wasn't "non-toxic", but it was less toxic, precisely because of what I said above.

All the people that wanted to compete by being in the top guild (Seal Team), or who wanted to compete to earn a server first, stayed on Green. As a result, there were less "competitors" on Teal, leaving a much higher ratio of people who just wanted to play a PvE game (and thus a lot less toxicity).

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes it's toxic, and that's by design. The staff wants competition (they literally make up entirely unclassic things, like races, to enable competition). Competition breeds toxicity.

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.

Teal wasn't "non-toxic", but it was less toxic, precisely because of what I said above.

All the people that wanted to compete by being in the top guild (Seal Team), or who wanted to compete to earn a server first, stayed on Green. As a result, there were less "competitors" on Teal, leaving a much higher ratio of people who just wanted to play a PvE game (and thus a lot less toxicity).

Yeah your accounting of history is all right here, except you still didn't define what toxicity is actually supposed to mean. Competition among players? "Toxic" seems to imply that there's some way the game could be non-toxic, but it just can't. To me, toxic in everquest would mean highly anti-social behavior where you're just a total dickhead all the time to other players for no reason at all, which imo is quite rare here and I've been playing p99 since 2009.

Teal was kind of a fringe outlier because it only existed for a few months, entirely during vanilla. If Teal had been left up as a separate server, it inevitably would have stratified into the same exact thing any other server does.

*Shrug* I guess if toxicity means "players competing in a non-instanced world for a finite number of targets" I enjoy toxic servers.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

....

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.

The finger of Allah writes:

Break raid targets into tiers first, then impose a "scalp limit" for each guild in each tier, based simply upon recognizing, not everyone wants to be hardcore and so each guild can select which tier is their primary scalp limit and which is their secondary.

If a guild takes more from a tier during a one (1) week period that it's limit, it is automatically "kicked" to the opposite category guild tier level limit cap selector.

This is the way. It creates two lanes as it were, so that hardcore guilds and casual guilds can both raid, and somewhat be segregated from each other.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah your accounting of history is all right here, except you still didn't define what toxicity is actually supposed to mean. Competition among players?

I'd loosely define it as "players acting like losers to win".

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Toxic" seems to imply that there's some way the game could be non-toxic, but it just can't.

I sort of agree. Look, actual PvP games can avoid toxicity by design: you don't see WoW players being toxic over battlegrounds, right?

But EQ wasn't designed to be a "race to the mob" PvP game: it was meant to be a "race to level up (as a player/guild)" PvE game. I think at least a good portion of the toxicity here comes from the inherent limits of trying to add a new meta-game to an underlying game that wasn't built for it.

[Arvan]

[Sun Jan 31 19:48:01 2016] Detoxx says out of character, 'u guys are so mad, ur denying everyone pixels for one last power play of a failed guild'
[Sun Jan 31 19:59:18 2016] Detoxx says out of character, 'cant wait to get my essence earring!'
[Sun Jan 31 20:44:20 2016] Detoxx says out of character, 'CONCEDE SLEEPER NOW'

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Two lanes.

Two tiers of raid targets, two tiers of guilds

Primary/secondary scalp limit, adjustable by expansion.

Every month guild decides to be tier 1, tier 2, or, if can't kill anything, no tier.

Scalp minimum or guild is excluded from rotation and is outlawd, and if you go outlawd, lawd have mercy. You can kill whatever you want but you are UNFORGIVEN and no GM's will ever help you till you get your mind right.
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[Lifebar]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think at least a good portion of the toxicity here comes from the inherent limits of trying to add a new meta-game to an underlying game that wasn't built for it.

[Bisonzabi]

You have hundreds of people bunched up in raid content for 7+ years that was never officially meant to be endgame for more than 1 year until the next expansion. Of course people are going to be agitated in the raid scene.

[pink grapefruit]

Tempest and Perdition whine about the other constantly and it honestly becomes quite sad. Competition doesn't necessarily bring about negativity, but a lot of the time it seems to.

I just think it's cool that we can be elves and do elf things!

[aussenseiter]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes it's toxic, and that's by design. The staff wants competition (they literally make up entirely unclassic things, like races, to enable competition). Competition breeds toxicity.

If we had rotations or instances or various other systems, there would be a lot less toxicity.



Teal wasn't "non-toxic", but it was less toxic, precisely because of what I said above.

All the people that wanted to compete by being in the top guild (Seal Team), or who wanted to compete to earn a server first, stayed on Green. As a result, there were less "competitors" on Teal, leaving a much higher ratio of people who just wanted to play a PvE game (and thus a lot less toxicity).

Classic competition is trains and ogur walls?