stop bringing up the founding fathers in gun arguments

[Vellatri]

You need to read the study and refute the statistics...not peruse the conclusions. I wanted some debate, lol.

You're the one that provided links without citing the relevant contents.

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Figure 1B and table 3 indicate that the rate of total nonfirearm
homicides increased by an average of 1.1% per year
before the introduction of the gun law and reduced by an
average of 2.4% per year after the introduction of the gun
laws




The study included non-firearm homicides and suicides. Suicides remain high and have slightly increased lending credence to the possibility that if you're going to off yourself, you will. Non-firearm homicides remain about the same. Since there has been a drastic drop in firearm related homicides, it's not irrelevant because overall rates have dropped.

...

Overall murder/violence in Australia HAS NOT increased. I want to see equally valid research articles that contradict what I linked. Not shit from Fox or the Examiner or The National Enquirer.

Already addressed here. Also verified by another independent source.

Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Vellatri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're the one that provided links without citing the relevant contents.


Already addressed here. Also verified by another independent source.

That's the source that I was talking about. It's not a study and it's not verified by anyone that wrote it except the author...who also happens to be an NRA analyst.

[Vellatri]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's the source that I was talking about. It's not a study and it's not verified by anyone that wrote it except the author...who also happens to be an NRA analyst.

Reading comprehension FTW:

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges...

Originally Posted by Vellatri

Wondering if this stuff was just cherry picked, (Choose Your Own Crime Stats) I attempted to verify it. The data from Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics actually compares positively with the Australian Institute of Criminology.

[Lexical]

The article below shows that despite our relaxed gun control laws, our rates of violent crimes have decreased from 1996 - 2010. The FBI annual crime statistic report also shows these numbers to be accurate. These same numbers are used in the report Vell linked. The ABS rates are hard to come by, but the article refers to them.
http://www.fcsm.gov/12papers/Li_2012FCSM_I-B.pdf

First, you can not look at a law in Australia and expect the same outcome here. Snopes said that and anyone who went through stats 101 will know that. We have been through these motions Humerox.

[Lexical]

I was going to continue, but I know whatever I would have posted would have been ignored or fallen on deaf ears while more irrelevant statistics come rushing in.

[Faron]

Originally Posted by Lexical [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, you can not look at a law in Australia and expect the same outcome here.

Yep. And the other fail is looking at their gun laws and assuming it is the one single factor that affects mass murder rates, or that it even affects mass murders at all. If someone has it in their head that they want to murder 50 people, I don't see how a gun law is going to magically remove that idea from their head. This issue has really shown a lack of basic problem solving skills for a lot of people. They are unable, or unwilling to correctly identify the cause of a mass murder. Ok I'll tell you, it's the mass murderer that's the cause, not what's in his hand.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Lexical [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Snopes said that and anyone who went through stats 101 will know that. We have been through these motions Humerox.

Factcheck.org

Australian crime statistics show a marked decrease in homicides since the gun law change.

Furthermore, murders using firearms have declined even more sharply than murders in general since the 1996 gun law. In the seven years prior to 1997, firearms were used in 24 percent of all Australian homicides. But most recently, firearms were used in only 11 percent of Australian homicides, according to figures for the 12 months ending July 1, 2007. That’s a decline of more than half since enactment of the gun law to which this message refers.

[Humerox]

Getting pretty tired of all this tbh.

No ones changing their minds, and the arguments are really circular, lol.

Gonna wait to see what happens over the next cople of years. Should be interesting.

[Lexical]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Factcheck.org

Australian crime statistics show a marked decrease in homicides since the gun law change.

Furthermore, murders using firearms have declined even more sharply than murders in general since the 1996 gun law. In the seven years prior to 1997, firearms were used in 24 percent of all Australian homicides. But most recently, firearms were used in only 11 percent of Australian homicides, according to figures for the 12 months ending July 1, 2007. That’s a decline of more than half since enactment of the gun law to which this message refers.

Originally Posted by Lexical [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are they only focusing on death rates Humerox?

[Goofier]

Originally Posted by Faron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok I'll tell you, it's the mass murderer that's the cause, not what's in his hand.

Won't take long before one of 'em puts together Oklahoma City with Sandy Hook.
U-Haul or a dumptruck full of fertilizer and oil, drive right into the cafeteria.
Nothing but windows, usually, and large numbers gather there at scheduled times.

Just sayin'.