Raid Changes

[Lostprophets]

People keep discussing removing the variance...there's almost a post about this like every other week (I was actually looking for the other one to post this in rather than posting a whole new thread..but I couldn't find it). To be frank, I'm kinda sick of seeing them being posted if nothing is going to happen with them rather than people saying "we need it, it's classic".

I'm not entirely sure how to do it as i'm not a coder, but I occasionally play on EZServer, and this is where the idea kinda popped in my head..

My suggestion is that, (using EZServer for an example) They have a 6:00am Reboot every day. On P99 is it possible we just have a random reboot once a week (basically implementing a classic patch day)?

By this, I mean we would implement a script to work with the current variance system (to an extent) but just have a 10 minute notice and shut the server down for like a 10-20 minutes or so during peak times, reboot automatically then have a hard repop (Dragons/gods spawned) once a week rather than having these really long windows for people to track all hours of the day, every day....then keep like Maestro/Draco(etc) on their original 3 day timers or whatever. (which would reset with the simulated "patch day" as they do now once killed)


I'm not adding a poll, its just something to toss out there to the P99 staff to emulate classic a bit more...something to toss into the suggestion box...though unsure where that would be, so server chat will have to work. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Itap]

First.

You would just be making it easier for TMO.

[Sirken]

Top guild would log out buffed at atleast one raid mob (maybe more) before server comes down.

top guild would batphone when the server came down to have everyone ready to log in.

top guild would zerg desired raid mobs as soon as server comes up.

all other guilds would lose 100% of the time.


people can complain about variance sucking all they want. fact is, they are arguing against their best interests unless they are in the top guild.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Top guild would log out buffed at atleast one raid mob (maybe more) before server comes down.

top guild would batphone when the server came down to have everyone ready to log in.

top guild would zerg desired raid mobs as soon as server comes up.

all other guilds would lose 100% of the time.


people can complain about variance sucking all they want. fact is, they are arguing against their best interests unless they are in the top guild.

I actually had to re-read Lostprophets's post to see if you and him were talking about the same thing. Not trying to sound rude, but you do realize that server repops currently happen every time there's a patch, and that smaller guilds historically have much more success than with varianced spawns? I refer you to the example of last night where there was a full repop and we got Inny and Maestro, which is probably 2 more mobs than we would have gotten if we were resorting to poopsocking and pressing the track button for 96 hours. Sure we still get less mobs than TMO, but we also have about 1/4 of the raid force, so I'll take 2 mobs over none any day. I can't think of any full repop on this server (out of at least a dozen that have happened) where we didn't either get mobs, or get attempts at mobs - one time we even got VS which is pretty much impossible for a casual guild to do when he's on variance. You can try to argue that variance benefits smaller guilds, but there's this thing called "empirical evidence" that would like to have a word with you.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I actually had to re-read Lostprophets's post to see if you and him were talking about the same thing. Not trying to sound rude, but you do realize that server repops currently happen every time there's a patch, and that smaller guilds historically have much more success than with varianced spawns? I refer you to the example of last night where there was a full repop and we got Inny and Maestro, which is probably 2 more mobs than we would have gotten if we were resorting to poopsocking and pressing the track button for 96 hours. Sure we still get less mobs than TMO, but we also have about 1/4 of the raid force, so I'll take 2 mobs over none any day. I can't think of any full repop on this server (out of at least a dozen that have happened) where we didn't either get mobs, or get attempts at mobs - one time we even got VS which is pretty much impossible for a casual guild to do when he's on variance. You can try to argue that variance benefits smaller guilds, but there's this thing called "empirical evidence" that would like to have a word with you.

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Confirmed sirken didn't read the post.

Current system is like 95% TMO. Repopping the whole server during primetime would be like 80% TMO maybe, and probably less depending on what targets people went after.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Giegue beat me to it. The top guild can poopsock their primary target every respawn, at least one other guild is going to get at least one other mob, which is above the average for most "normal" weeks.

Originally Posted by Nlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In regards to Lazortag's latest post...

He did a great job highlighting this fact but let us reinforce...

There is a STAGGERING amount of historical evidence on P99 to support his latest post.

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Variance is in the favour of guilds who are willing to track mobs for long periods of time and have the numbers willing to be on call to field a strong attempt.

I strongly agree with everything Lazortag said.

/beats the dead horse further

Asher

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If anyone out there believes that the smaller guilds are out there claiming raid spawns even a little bit frequently, you are completely wrong. It's pretty obvious that there should be some changes.

Here's what I don't get, though. And you'll have to forgive me as I did not raid on Live back then, so I don't know what system was used there and how it relates/compares to what we have on P99. But 48+- hours window is absolutely insane, and ridiculous. Windows aren't meant to be like that. Windows are supposed to be small, a few hours at most. I think the highest a window should ever be is +- 3 hours, though 1.5 or even heck, -+ 30 minutes would be ideal. And then instead of having an even respawn time - 5 days, for example - you make it 5 days minus like 8 hours or so (112 hours in this scenario), to cause the mob to spawn at a different time of day each time. These are just my opinions, not really suggesting anything.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Giegue is 100% correct.

• Variance caters to massive guild sizes to allow you to log on a sufficient size at any hour.
• Variance allows one guild to control every mob because it is statistically improbable that multiple targets will spawn at the same time, therefore forcing multiple forces that wish to compete into the same zone to fight for the same mob, instead of spreading them out amongst multiple targets.
• Variance increases the effort required to obtain kills/pixels beyond the point that most guilds are willing to work, and beyond a classic amount of effort.
• Variance caters to guilds large enough to track everything in window at the same time to know when they all spawn.
• The amount of boss kills guilds smaller than the #1 guild obtain is empirically higher on simultaneous repops than during "normal" weeks, and the sample size is large enough to invalidate any theoretical advantages variance provides to smaller guilds.
• Simultaneous repops historically reduce GM intervention because guilds simply move on to the next target instead of getting embroiled in a dispute.
• Simultaneous repops reduce GM intervention because all the content is killed within 2 hours instead of spread out over the week and at all hours of the day.
• Simultaneous repops are more classic than variance, especially to the extreme level P99 has taken variance (+/-48hrs instead of ~1hr).

Originally Posted by Ferok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is spot on. I'm not sure why the GM's are so insistent on Variance being helpful. Maybe in theory, but clearly that theory is wrong.

When this many normally argumentative personalities agree on something here, extreme note should be taken.

Can you hear us Sirken? Can you hear us, Rogean? Nilbog, where are the changes? Nobody has wanted this system for a year. Enough is enough with the variance now. I don't understand how this isn't first on the list of changes.

This cycle has happened so many times... eager new group starts play, grows up, starts raiding. Most soon quit in disgust except those who join TMO, perpetuating the problem. Variance is strangling the life out of the raid scene on this server.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Top guild would log out buffed at atleast one raid mob (maybe more) before server comes down.

top guild would batphone when the server came down to have everyone ready to log in.

top guild would zerg desired raid mobs as soon as server comes up.

all other guilds would lose 100% of the time.


people can complain about variance sucking all they want. fact is, they are arguing against their best interests unless they are in the top guild.

Any other guild can do a batphone when a raid mob respawns.

Any guild can log out at desired raid mob.

All other guilds wouldn't loose, because all they have to do is get lucky with FTE. (and beleive me, it's not hard)

Variance needs to be removed, for so many other ways. Guilds like TMO and BDA have the time to exploit other peoples time on the server. That's how they win. By removing variance you put everyone on a more balanced playing field.

[Lostprophets]

Originally Posted by Razdeline [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Variance needs to be removed, for so many other ways. Guilds like TMO and BDA have the time to exploit other peoples time on the server. That's how they win. By removing variance you put everyone on a more balanced playing field.

Q4t.

No offense Raz, but IB was the ones that got the Variance in tact to begin with. before your time on p99? They are the founders of the variance.

now that they are gone, 80+% of the server wants it GONE as it DOESN'T benefit anyone but the BIG Guilds.

That is my suggestion to make it more like classic.

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by Lostprophets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Q4t.

No offense Raz, but IB was the ones that got the Variance in tact to begin with. before your time on p99? They are the founders of the variance.

now that they are gone, 80+% of the server wants it GONE as it DOESN'T benefit anyone but the BIG Guilds.

That is my suggestion to make it more like classic.

We had a discussion about it on our website and it turned into a pretty good argument. Beleive me, IB/TMO/BDA do not like poopsocking or tracking mobs for endless hours. Tune variance down a bit (as stealin suggested) or do away with it and see what happens. Everyone wins. The big and the little guys.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Lostprophets [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

just have a 10 minute notice and shut the server down for like a 10-20 minutes or so during peak times

Confirmed sirken didn't read the post.

Current system is like 95% TMO. Repopping the whole server during primetime would be like 80% TMO maybe, and probably less depending on what targets people went after.

[Nlaar]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Confirmed sirken didn't real the post.

He also forgot to capitalize the first word in 4/5 sentences which is weird because we know he wasn't distracted by reading the post he was responding to. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]