Red99 Stimulus Plan (some constructive feedback)

[SamwiseRed]

pok destroyed eq. at least nexus had wait times.

[Rikimeru]

Originally Posted by SamwiseRed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

pok destroyed eq. at least nexus had wait times.

pop was worst expansion ever!!!

[Doors]

I liked PoP.

[Atmas]

Originally Posted by Rikimeru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

pop was worst expansion ever!!!

PoP was awesome in general. PoK was stupid.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From your sig: just fyi pok books f'd up pvp too.

You're right that instances and pok books and "safe" zones f'd up pvp - so to speak.

For your information, EQ was never a pvp-focused MMORPG. In fact, if I recall right, they never intended on adding pvp servers. They added em late in the cycle to cover all their bases. I think at first things were going ok, despite the obvious shortcomings. The pvp servers even had their own website section and pvp stats (that were updated daily). But as the population dwindled, which is a common trait amongst pvp-servers almost universally (except Eve-Online?), all of that hard work faded and they just decayed into the background.

It's hard to have a pvp-server. But it's not hard to have PvP content on a PvE server. Lessons learned. But, unfortunately, some people don't learn. This red p1999 is one example of how people are stubborn.

My comment in my sig meant to say that if population wasn't high enough then global chat and pok books make sense (to solve conversation and travel bottlenecks). Back when I added that to my sig, people would compare global chat to pok books and make the argument that they were bad because it made the game easier. They would say that since pok books were bad and global chat was similar, then global chat was bad too. That's in their own words (mostly). But it didn't make the game easier if the population wasn't sufficient. Rather, it made it bearable. That was what people were missing back then. That was why we saw so much mudflation on live. The Company was compensating for declining inputs of new players (in effect: a lower population). Sidenote: Mudflation is more complicated than I am making it out to be here. It might be a permanent "feature".

In review, they would say:
"Global chat is to conversation what pok books are to travel (easy!), therefore, global chat is bad!"
My reply:
"Your argument is void if population is too low."

[Slave]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why does no one mention how disabling sof/uf client support might have hurt population too?

As a recap, here're some things I'd do to "stimulate" this server:
1) Remove both exp loss on pvp death and pvp item loot and instead add a pvp-points system that you can view on a website just like they did on live - can view pvp kills/death/points for players/guilds/etc
2) Add global chat (blue had it until population was about 600 or more)
3) Advertise in MMORPG forums (legally, you have to buy titanium, so advertising on free MMORPG forums is not what should be done in this case)
4) Move default bind points to guards so people cannot be bind camped by default
5) Remind people that classic EQ isn't about being level 50+; it's about 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, .. 50! You can pvp at any point in your level progression. Don't worry about 50. 50 is 1/50th of the fun.

A point I want to make about the nature of EQ...

The major problem is that EQ is a group-based game and it statically associates itself with population. This means that, given a low population, players will find it very difficult to get good experience rates and smooth progression. This, of course, leads to frustration and high attrition.

The fact that this is a pvp server makes it all worse.

You can increase the experience rate, but, if everytying else is equal, this will not solve the problem of players not being able to form groups (let alone balanced groups). Nor will it reduce corpse runs. Nor will it make the game feel more populated. Nor will it help you to get a bind or find someone to sow you or find someone to help you get your corpse. Nor will it stop you from being pvp'd. Nor will it help you to find a tracker or a porter.

Essentially, increasing experience rates is not the universal answer. Take someone doing a quest on a low population server, for example. You might increase the experience rates, but since EQ is still group-based then the player still must out-level the quest in order to do it. They do this because there're not enough people to group with. This changes how the quest will feel when you do it. Instead of hiding/sneaking/invising/mezzing/tracking/etc and working with others to attain the goal, you just slaughter most everything to get your prize. That's what happens when a group-based game is reduced to a solo-based game. It's very difficult to change hte nature of a game without starting fresh with a new slate. It's like trying to make an 80 year old 20 again. It's futile. It ends up being something that's notlike a group-based adventure. Bottom line, increasing experience rates as the be-all/end-all answer is like hooking up a bad heart to a machine. While it works when the heart is bad, it might actually get in the way when the heart is good. (In a lot of ways, this reminds me of the warrior class. No matter how much you increase experience rates on emulated solo-based servers, if you don't fundamentally change warriors then a warrior is still a warrior. They can't hide/sneak. They can't invis. They can't backstab. No mezzing. They can't teleport. They can't gate. They can't root or snare. They can't sow. They can't heal. They can't track. The warrior has got to be the most boring class ever created. To fix a warrior, you got to do a hell of a lot more than increase the experience rate.)

Now, it's possible that players might stick around if they see their experience meter go up. If this is the case and the game actually gains population then my argument is that as the population goes up the experience rate should be lowered. In fact, a script or piece of code should be written to automatically increase or decrease experience rate dependent on the overall population. The reason it's important to do this is because if experience is too slow then progression is too grindy and if experience is too fast then progression is skipped altogether. You have to find a middle-ground for your audience wherein progression is stable and balanced with everything else. That requires a good grasp of everything. It should be automatic or easily applied.

There're a lot of things I could bring. There're very many useful posts in this thread. The problem is that separating the good posts from the background noise is too hard now. It's not consolidated. This thread is like a big pile of hay now and there's a needle in it somewhere. It's like walking up to a crowd of people and asking them how to save the country. Then they all shout at once. It's quickly forgotten.

I bolded the part up near the top of your post where I said, "what the hell?" and stopped reading. It's almost as much as I can take to devote time and energy just towards people who have played on the server, let alone armchair geeks who have never once even logged in and at least attempted to see what it was all about.

[Rikimeru]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PoP was awesome in general. PoK was stupid.

safe zones, insta teleport(pok books) around the world for everyone....WORST EXPANSION EVER!!!!

[Butthead]

135 ppl on red99...
455 on blu


lol its like our economy here in america.. wer watching everything goto shit but cant do anything about it?

iv brought it up in guild chat and /ooc, and ppl seem to either say "oo everythings fine" or my favorite, "na its not low, its perfect"

blaming the holidays is ass backwards too. iv played games since i could walk, and Every year over the xmas break, Everryone is online playing games lol. after the holidays pass and the work week starts again, thats wen ppl go missing from games.

was the pvp too much for ppl so they all went back to blue?
(lol and to think i wanted no level limit in pvp like sullon zek, pffffft..)

lets all recruit atleast 1 person to play again. atleast maybe it'll help?
wats guna happen when hots and d3 come out?
and even tho every1 said ToR was guna bomb, every1 seems to like it.

my friend says its 80% clone of wow lol. yet ppl like it.

WTF ARE WE GUNA DEWWW

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Butthead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

135 ppl on red99...
blaming the holidays is ass backwards too. iv played games since i could walk, and Every year over the xmas break, Everryone is online playing games lol. after the holidays pass and the work week starts again, thats wen ppl go missing from games.

xmas break is for children

this game came out over 12 years ago

people that play here are old

people that are old are busy around holidays

mother no longer baking all of us cookies and bringing us toys from santa while we play video games for 3 weeks straight

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Butthead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

135 ppl on red99...
455 on blu


lol its like our economy here in america.. wer watching everything goto shit but cant do anything about it?

iv brought it up in guild chat and /ooc, and ppl seem to either say "oo everythings fine" or my favorite, "na its not low, its perfect"

blaming the holidays is ass backwards too. iv played games since i could walk, and Every year over the xmas break, Everryone is online playing games lol. after the holidays pass and the work week starts again, thats wen ppl go missing from games.

was the pvp too much for ppl so they all went back to blue?
(lol and to think i wanted no level limit in pvp like sullon zek, pffffft..)

lets all recruit atleast 1 person to play again. atleast maybe it'll help?
wats guna happen when hots and d3 come out?
and even tho every1 said ToR was guna bomb, every1 seems to like it.

my friend says its 80% clone of wow lol. yet ppl like it.

WTF ARE WE GUNA DEWWW

Another quality post from "Butthead".