level from 45-60 or wait pantheon release

[fadetree]

Mmm, I don't think Everquest was great solely because it was innovative. At first that had a lot of impact, but I think a lot of what happened later was because of the difficulty. By 'difficulty' I mean the harsh death penalty, other time sinks, the need to group up, and the LONG grind to max level.
I have no idea what Pantheon will be like. There's a good chance it will fail, but that could be said about any new mmo. I think Pantheon will capture a certain niche market and if they can make that work financially then they will do fine. I certainly plan on playing it.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by rekreant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont think youve read any of the lore or class descriptions then. Pantheon is a carbon copy of Everquest and just like with Everquest Next pledges, they already have your money suckaaaaaa!

Not sure if trolling...probably, but just in case...

Where to begin? The classes I've read up on the most.

Dire Lords are looking to be quite the unconventional tank, absorbing the vitality of enemy by drenching their chainmail with its blood. There won't be any plate armor or shields for them to equip. Perhaps to compensate for this, the class comes with markedly better defenses against magical attacks than other tank classes. Yes, the concept/design could be described as a more fleshed out of version of Shadow Knights, but that would not be nearly descriptive enough. It is a hybrid of a hybrid, a class that will likely require its player to focus more on weapons and haste than armor sets, as their health will fluctuate too wildly in combat otherwise. Low AC targets (casters) would be ideal if that turns out to be the case. They also will be able to prevent mobs from being healed for a short duration. All of these features combined should solidify them as the most desired tank versus casters; in classic EQ, paladins handedly take that position. Further differentiating DLs from SKs, Pantheon gives them poleaxes with nuanced uses, dual wield, hate generation through aoe effect (which ties in with their lore), and the ability to hold aggro better than warriors and paladins in longer, drawn out fights. That last feature should make them solid off-tanks on raids; while everyone else is killing mob A, the DL is leeching mob B quite possibly with just the occasional patch heal while at the same time ensuring that aggro won't bounce around after the fact. Dire lords also will have the ability to tank a fraction of incoming damage of another player, giving them an additional role on raids (safeguarding an assigned caster) as well as extra desirability in experience groups. How many times do enchanters say "watch my pet rq gotta bio" before they afk and then the pet proceeds to hump them to death while the group scrambles to contain the hasted little pos?

Beginner paladins in Pantheon sound like they'll be more white/blue deck MTG than endgame paladins in EQ. They will be given a mirror image for cc/temporary off-tanking, among other spells/abilities which offer a lot more utility. There are no high elves in Terminus and of the elves that do exist, none can be holy knights. While extremely limiting in terms of roleplay, it is explained in the racial lore. Additionally, paladins will be vanquishers of the undead through built-in abilities, being constantly vigilant of and passively resistant to their presence; whereas in Norrath paladins could only pretend to be highly capable against the undead, half-believing it because of the lore, and a handful of quests, spells, and weapons.

Clerics will be able to cast a temporary wall, possibly allowing them to block off another group's train in dungeon settings. Also, iirc, there won't be a version of complete heal at all.

Druids will receive a more complex type of delayed heal that will make them desirable for "oh shit" moments when the cleric is tabbed out or busy building that wall.

Wizards will have familiars that draw mana from the surroundings and funnel it into their pool. In addition, wizards will also be able to blink ahead and lower resistances. Everything else is to be expected.

Summoners will be able to receive heals through their "secondary" pet's attacks, or they can choose to have the healing effect go towards their main pet. Both pet forms have potential to enhance one another depending on the elements at work. Summoners will also have greater control of their pets while benefitting from them through commands that won't give them the crowd control of an enchanter, but will provide them with a means of escape. Yes, it is essentially a magician, but the abilities are more evolved.

Monks will be even more resilient and self-reliant, having the ability to stun, slow enemy's cast, and cure poison/disease. They basically have a physical version of lesser paladin abilities along with hate management, likely meaning they will be capable off-tanks once again. Additionally, monks will have flying kick for nostalgia, but it comes with a knockback which opens up possibilities in PVE and PVP locations with long drops. Yes, they have mend and feign death; if they didn't, few people would want to play them. It's the monk class everyone knows, but with spiritual touch.

Gnomes are ghosts in the machine. The way a bottom crawler will select a shell, they have collectively fashioned together an appearance to obscure their condensed energy. If you're looking for an EQ-equivalent, they are more like futuristic clockworks than the pudgy, cave-dwelling curmudgeons. But even that is a poor description.

Halflings won't be hobbitses, but instead more wiry and mischievous looking, with a style similar to the Gorillaz. And the changeup is not merely superficial; their lore has nothing to do with the shire or precious jumjum stalks.

It could have been said that the skar were just iksars reskinned, but they have since undergone a makeover, appearing as unnatural beings that will likely have even worse faction issues than Kunark's lizards.

No dark elves. Instead, emo merfolk.

By the sounds of it, racial benefits won't be so powerful as to create situations where there's one clear choice per class and anything else will be looked down upon. Cut to EverQuest and the two most obvious choices are frontal stun immunity and innate regeneration.

And no, the gods of Terminus are not the gods of Norrath. Considering the title of the game, I would think that above all else would be where they make every effort to separate themselves from other MMORPGs, including EQ. Since it seems that you didn't read the lore, I will just recommend the
audiobook version instead of making this post any more TLDR than it already appears to be.

Again, the lore is vastly different. It might draw from familiar material but it's turned on its head and switched around. Iirc Terminus giants are few and far between, being reclusive, survivors of time long since passed, and players will likely have to travel to remote locations if they are to find them. In Norrath, giants are only absent on the lesser continents and the majority of them are kill on sight / not directly involved with quests.

There are definite, undeniable similarities and aspects of the world that harken back to the one of single-digit polygons. But it would be a wasted opportunity if they didn't weave in certain elements of nostalgia beyond the usual easter egg here and there. That said, just because there are comparisons to be made does not mean the experience will be what you've come to expect.

https://youtu.be/Fl2LhqrUTfM

Lastly, I didn't pledge to EQNext and have yet to do so for Pantheon, but may very well commit money towards it this year. I support most things first by spreading word and debating the uninitiated, feeding the trolls, and squeezing out a figurative dutch oven for those who make blanket statements.

[fadetree]

EQNext was really never anything. Pantheon at least has some alpha going on. I bought in to the Knight's package when i first heard about it.

[rekreant]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure if trolling...probably, but just in case...

Where to begin? The classes I've read up on the most.

Dire Lords are looking to be quite the unconventional tank, absorbing the vitality of enemy by drenching their chainmail with its blood. There won't be any plate armor or shields for them to equip. Perhaps to compensate for this, the class comes with markedly better defenses against magical attacks than other tank classes. Yes, the concept/design could be described as a more fleshed out of version of Shadow Knights, but that would not be nearly descriptive enough. It is a hybrid of a hybrid, a class that will likely require its player to focus more on weapons and haste than armor sets, as their health will fluctuate too wildly in combat otherwise. Low AC targets (casters) would be ideal if that turns out to be the case. They also will be able to prevent mobs from being healed for a short duration. All of these features combined should solidify them as the most desired tank versus casters; in classic EQ, paladins handedly take that position. Further differentiating DLs from SKs, Pantheon gives them poleaxes with nuanced uses, dual wield, hate generation through aoe effect (which ties in with their lore), and the ability to hold aggro better than warriors and paladins in longer, drawn out fights. That last feature should make them solid off-tanks on raids; while everyone else is killing mob A, the DL is leeching mob B quite possibly with just the occasional patch heal while at the same time ensuring that aggro won't bounce around after the fact. Dire lords also will have the ability to tank a fraction of incoming damage of another player, giving them an additional role on raids (safeguarding an assigned caster) as well as extra desirability in experience groups. How many times do enchanters say "watch my pet rq gotta bio" before they afk and then the pet proceeds to hump them to death while the group scrambles to contain the hasted little pos?

Beginner paladins in Pantheon sound like they'll be more white/blue deck MTG than endgame paladins in EQ. They will be given a mirror image for cc/temporary off-tanking, among other spells/abilities which offer a lot more utility. There are no high elves in Terminus and of the elves that do exist, none can be holy knights. While extremely limiting in terms of roleplay, it is explained in the racial lore. Additionally, paladins will be vanquishers of the undead through built-in abilities, being constantly vigilant of and passively resistant to their presence; whereas in Norrath paladins could only pretend to be highly capable against the undead, half-believing it because of the lore, and a handful of quests, spells, and weapons.

Clerics will be able to cast a temporary wall, possibly allowing them to block off another group's train in dungeon settings. Also, iirc, there won't be a version of complete heal at all.

Druids will receive a more complex type of delayed heal that will make them desirable for "oh shit" moments when the cleric is tabbed out or busy building that wall.

Wizards will have familiars that draw mana from the surroundings and funnel it into their pool. In addition, wizards will also be able to blink ahead and lower resistances. Everything else is to be expected.

Summoners will be able to receive heals through their "secondary" pet's attacks, or they can choose to have the healing effect go towards their main pet. Both pet forms have potential to enhance one another depending on the elements at work. Summoners will also have greater control of their pets while benefitting from them through commands that won't give them the crowd control of an enchanter, but will provide them with a means of escape. Yes, it is essentially a magician, but the abilities are more evolved.

Monks will be even more resilient and self-reliant, having the ability to stun, slow enemy's cast, and cure poison/disease. They basically have a physical version of lesser paladin abilities along with hate management, likely meaning they will be capable off-tanks once again. Additionally, monks will have flying kick for nostalgia, but it comes with a knockback which opens up possibilities in PVE and PVP locations with long drops. Yes, they have mend and feign death; if they didn't, few people would want to play them. It's the monk class everyone knows, but with spiritual touch.

Gnomes are ghosts in the machine. The way a bottom crawler will select a shell, they have collectively fashioned together an appearance to obscure their condensed energy. If you're looking for an EQ-equivalent, they are more like futuristic clockworks than the pudgy, cave-dwelling curmudgeons. But even that is a poor description.

Halflings won't be hobbitses, but instead more wiry and mischievous looking, with a style similar to the Gorillaz. And the changeup is not merely superficial; their lore has nothing to do with the shire or precious jumjum stalks.

It could have been said that the skar were just iksars reskinned, but they have since undergone a makeover, appearing as unnatural beings that will likely have even worse faction issues than Kunark's lizards.

No dark elves. Instead, emo merfolk.

By the sounds of it, racial benefits won't be so powerful as to create situations where there's one clear choice per class and anything else will be looked down upon. Cut to EverQuest and the two most obvious choices are frontal stun immunity and innate regeneration.

And no, the gods of Terminus are not the gods of Norrath. Considering the title of the game, I would think that above all else would be where they make every effort to separate themselves from other MMORPGs, including EQ. Since it seems that you didn't read the lore, I will just recommend the
audiobook version instead of making this post any more TLDR than it already appears to be.

Again, the lore is vastly different. It might draw from familiar material but it's turned on its head and switched around. Iirc Terminus giants are few and far between, being reclusive, survivors of time long since passed, and players will likely have to travel to remote locations if they are to find them. In Norrath, giants are only absent on the lesser continents and the majority of them are kill on sight / not directly involved with quests.

There are definite, undeniable similarities and aspects of the world that harken back to the one of single-digit polygons. But it would be a wasted opportunity if they didn't weave in certain elements of nostalgia beyond the usual easter egg here and there. That said, just because there are comparisons to be made does not mean the experience will be what you've come to expect.

https://youtu.be/Fl2LhqrUTfM

Lastly, I didn't pledge to EQNext and have yet to do so for Pantheon, but may very well commit money towards it this year. I support most things first by spreading word and debating the uninitiated, feeding the trolls, and squeezing out a figurative dutch oven for those who make blanket statements.

In my eyes, everything is just Norrath lore with a "twist". Dire lord is just a shadow knight with a twist! Summoner? Mage with a twist. Wizard, but with a spellweaving twist. Cleric, but can make a wall? Twist baby twist! Ill concede that my original percentage was off, maybe about 80% of the lore is lifted from EQ and 20% is the twist. Also changing the names of races and adding twists(emo merfolk that are just underwater dark elves) is not new or innovative.

[Champion_Standing]

You could get a 4 year degree, get married, have kids and they'll be in middle school before Pantheon comes out.

[fadetree]

@Rekreant
Yeah but you can say that about any game that is in the same genre. There's only so many tropes to use.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by rekreant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my eyes, everything is just Norrath lore with a "twist". Dire lord is just a shadow knight with a twist! Summoner? Mage with a twist. Wizard, but with a spellweaving twist. Cleric, but can make a wall? Twist baby twist! Ill concede that my original percentage was off, maybe about 80% of the lore is lifted from EQ and 20% is the twist. Also changing the names of races and adding twists(emo merfolk that are just underwater dark elves) is not new or innovative.

Fair enough but then what's wrong with what has been proven to work in the past? The team over at PROTF hasn't promised the gaming community an innovative WoW killer. There's nothing new about games promising to be just that, so why bother falling into the same rut?

Afaik the devs haven't rejected the idea of Pantheon being the spiritual successor to EverQuest, meaning they aren't trying to reinvent the wheel and offer a 100% new experience. They're making a world they themselves want to be immersed in, one that could renew the genre or at least interest in it.

Innovative is asking and promising too much though, imo. Whenever I hear words like "innovative" or "cutting edge" I think of Avatar which promised to be all of that and then some, except the storyline had been used before and to greater effect. For all of the money it took in, that movie is now largely forgotten and not on anyone's top 10 list. The same will likely happen with Black Panther. What about cult classics though? And some of those barely got made at all because their budgets were almost nonexistent. But for all of their deviations from the norm, most cult classics weren't as innovative for their time as Kurosawa films, and the ones were copied a lot from his techniques.

Traditional races/classes with a twist? In a way. Amphibious dark elves. Cyborg gnomes. Plur raver halflings. In another thread, someone else more or less wrote that Karana was just Zeus with a twist. There is a certain amount of truth to that, but it ignores the finer details.

Ex.: Rather than the standard white knight, the paladin in PROTF is a priest who stepped away from worship, abandoned the faith partially, and traded in prayer beads for a sword. A twist? Okay but what isn't a twist?

Human males are essentially just females with a twist. Christianity is just Judaism with a twist. New Zealand is just Australia with a twist.

This is still ignoring other, more substantial features of PROTF like the progeny system and the in-depth faction-based system that amplifies player/nonplayer character interactions.

The lore? So much of fantasy is rooted in history and mythology, it's hard to name anything that has been innovative. LoTR? Game of Thrones is the War of the Roses with a twist. Historical figures Frankensteined together. Even the wall was inspired by a real world location. Bristlebane is the trickster god with a twist, a god who can be found in many forms and beliefs throughout history, particularly among native American tribes.

The same holds true with Pantheon. "Terminus" is the name of the Roman god of boundary markers and the word for a final point of space/time. But that's the nature of life and art, both imitating each other.

Trends exude a certain kind of artistic innovation but superficially, and as a result often don't age well, not that it matters since they're easily replaced.

The devs at Pantheon seem intent on bucking the trend, but aren't trying to innovate the way EQNext did. Their game also isn't trending the way EQNext had been which is good imo because, for all the many who played the classic trilogy, EverQuest wasn't exactly trendy; most people who gamed were casual and only played console.

But all of this is assuming that 80% of Pantheon's lore has been directly lifted from or inspired by EverQuest's. Maybe that's accurate but percentages also come from lying ass weathermen and unreliable election polls. One could just as easily argue that EverQuest is 80% DnD with a 20% twist. And humans share all of what, 98/99% DNA with chimpanzees? So, in a sense, we are just chimps with a twist. But look at the world of difference that little twist makes.

[Muggens]

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You could get a 4 year degree, get married, have kids and they'll be in middle school before Pantheon comes out.

Some posters in here could even see their first rl naked woman IF focus shifted abit from pantheon

[Issar]

Originally Posted by rekreant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In my eyes, everything is just Norrath lore with a "twist". Dire lord is just a shadow knight with a twist! Summoner? Mage with a twist. Wizard, but with a spellweaving twist. Cleric, but can make a wall? Twist baby twist! Ill concede that my original percentage was off, maybe about 80% of the lore is lifted from EQ and 20% is the twist. Also changing the names of races and adding twists(emo merfolk that are just underwater dark elves) is not new or innovative.

This is true about every mmorpg in a true high fantasy setting, and they are all derived from D&D.

[Uuruk]

Originally Posted by rekreant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im way more excited for p99 "green/recycle" server starting than I am for any new IP who is just trying to recreate the past with a new face. Everquest is great because it was innovative, not because its an mmo. WoW got big cause it dialed the innovation up to 11 and streamlined the experience so more people could enjoy it. Those are the opposite ends of the spectrum and most of the stuff in between is garbage lol.

Same, I heard green was coming right after discord