A tour of norrath, need some advice

[Ferok]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think people who generally only play in optimal groups eventually think that it's impossible to do otherwise. People who go ahead and play in non-optimal groups usually know that anything is possible, though it may take some extra effort. It's not an optimal group he's constructing, but I doubt it would render a 'tour of norrath' actually impossible.

I play in lots of "sub-optimal groups". I love groups of all flavors. I've run AOE groups as a paladin. I took a shaman rogue and bard to the bottom of Seb as a foursome. I've played in all pet groups. I've duo'ed with every class imaginable. This is just good everquesting, IMO.

However, when you're working with 3 melee classes (2 pure melee) there are some rules you're going to live by. One is that you're going to have a tank. If you're going to have a tank, you have to heal that tank adequately. There's not a lot of flexibility there.

This isn't about min maxxing. This is about filling a group with appropriate tools to do everquesting. If you're set on a Druid as your MH, okay, that can be done - you'll need slows. You want to use a Bard? Okay, that's a little weak, but maybe it can be done - but you'll want a high aggro tank. Oh, well you want to use a warrior... okay, now we're hitting a problem.

You don't have to min-max, but you do need the right tools.

Summary:
Switch Wizard for Enchanter OR
Switch Druid for Shaman OR
Switch Warrior for Paladin

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Picked [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lot of hate for the Wizards still I see. They are fairly problematic without clarity I will admit. If I was going to make the group up under these circumstances I would say keep the Wiz, have the bard or monk play an Enchanter and switch the Druid to Cleric. No sense in having two pullers.

Giving you Cleric, Ench, War, Wiz, Bard or Monk depending on which switches. Wizards get a bad rap. But with Ench and Bard in group later in levels? He will be as good DPS as anyone. Not to mention the burst when needed. With Ench charmed pet and Monk or Bard, DPS will be nice.

I like this idea if the group is up for it.

Wizards are, without a doubt, the worst sustained damage in the game. But with clarity and bardsong, they at least can hold steady with a tank's damage while supplying some help with roots and stuns. Plus if the druid switches to cleric, the utility of ports will be huge for a group that is playing together 100% of the time that also wants to see the whole world.

The wizard will NOT, however, "be as good DPS as anyone" ... ever. Even with c2 and 100% uptime on bard mana songs, the wizard will still do (much) less damage than any melee DPS, mage, or necro.

[SCB]

Slave, I'll see your quote of this:

Originally Posted by Picked [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but we had Enchanter .... Not to mention the Enchanters pet and the Druid himself had a bat charmed.

And raise you this:

if you got competent players you can make almost anything work.

Mmmm... context.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think people who generally only play in optimal groups eventually think that it's impossible to do otherwise. People who go ahead and play in non-optimal groups usually know that anything is possible, though it may take some extra effort. It's not an optimal group he's constructing, but I doubt it would render a 'tour of norrath' actually impossible.

You feel that a

Warrior
Monk
Bard
Druid
Wizard

could successfully kill monsters at any kind of acceptable pace, level 50+? Please think about this for a second. It is not happening. Especially to players new to Everquest, who are used to the modern gaming model of instant gratification?! They're already pushing their luck just getting to 50 with a fun and validating balanced group. Add completely interminable leveling and the certainty that you can't even progress beyond a certain point.

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Man, if you aren't into tedious exp grinding you are playing the wrong game. And anyways, it's all relative, what you find unacceptable doesn't have any relation to how this group might feel about it.

I find slow rates acceptable. I find devastatingly, off-the-charts molassassine leveling to be boring. I'm guessing that people without any EQ experience will find it less palatable than myself.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the utility of ports will be huge for a group that is playing together 100% of the time that also wants to see the whole world.

The utility of ports can be bribed from any Druid or Wizard in Norrath without having to give them 20% of your experience.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by SCB [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Slave, I'll see your quote of this:



And raise you this:




Mmmm... context.

I know players who have played for years and aren't competent. This is a group in their first Everquestian experience. And you want to stack the deck against them. For shame, sir.

[fadetree]

You feel that a .... could successfully kill monsters at any kind of acceptable pace

Yes. You realize 'any kind of acceptable pace' is pretty open territory.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes.

I dare you to make a poll on that.

[fadetree]

Lol. Who cares? By the way, where do they say they haven't played eq before? Sounds to me like they used to play.

[Tecmos Deception]

Slave, I can't deny that a group involving a wizard and a druid while simultaneously NOT having a shaman, an enchanter, or a cleric, is gonna be turrible.

I also can't deny that a group of tank + cleric + ench/sham + some combination of rogue/mage/necro/monk/(ench or sham, whichever wasn't picked earlier) is going to be pretty godly.

But YOU are the one being dumb here if you keep blindly ranting about what is ideal when the people doing this obviously don't want what is ideal. If you are going to make suggestions to help them make a group that is viable enough to do this tour without them all going insane trying to do it, then go ahead; it'll be constructive. But if you're just going to drag this out until it ends up in R&F because you can't stand the thought of someone else doing something that doesn't perfectly mesh with your idea of what the world of EQ should be... then just GTFO already.