Raiding scene changes proposal

[isoka]

Hello everyone, for those who don't know me, Yamakasi, one of Bregan D'Aerth raid leaders. I have been awarded by my leadership the rights to represent BDA in this post.

The following post is a proposal to p99 raiding guilds. Hence, it is open for discussion with a representative of each guild, but it is not open for everyone to post their opinion so that we can keep this topic as constructive as possible.

Therefore, I highly recommand any of you to discuss this within your own guilds and that you have a dedicated person to post in the name of your guild. Trolls, get out of my thread. Thanks.

Let's start by looking back. 2012 has been marked by poopsocking, FTE lottery, a lot of petitions. Is it what we really want for 2013 ? It is not what BDA wants.

Don't worry, I am not proposing a rotation on raid targets, because regardless of what I think of TMO, I tend to agree with Zeelot's following post :

Originally Posted by Zeelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

'Competition' for me in EQ is when 2 or more guilds are racing to engage a target. The most enjoyment I get out of EQ is evaluating each guilds forces as they enter a zone and engaging as soon as possible. If a guild goes too early they chance wiping and too late they chance losing to the opposition. This sort of race is not always how it goes, but when it does happen this way EQ is the most fun for me. I see no reason to make a rotation and take away from the chance to get that kind of experience. I understand the negative aspects of 'competition' such as socking, sniping, training, etc, but it is not like I enjoy that part of it. However, the feeling of a good race every once in awhile outweighs all the grief.

Yes, competition is fun and can bring high thrills when it comes to mobilize and race for a target. But let's face it. Not so much when it is about parking a toon, waiting for a batphone, logging in, killing the target, and logging out. Noone enjoys having a character stuck in one place, not being able to play it. Been there, done that.
Yes, parking and poopsocking is the most efficient way to kill a target, but let's be honest, it's not fun. It also leads to a shitload of petitions to know who has FTE, shaddy trains etc which is, unfortunately for the server, time consuming for our GMs who could make better use of their time to help the community.

My proposal is, somehow, based on a common agreement that would step up racing for the following targets, but also on Ambrotos' rules regarding Inny and Draco because I quite liked his proposition.

Old world targets :

Naggy / Vox : No real change. Kill those ones in their lair. Mobilisation from anywhere. If two or more guilds are competing, the first raid leader to make a shout/ooc stating that their guild is engaging the target gets the first shot. However, when a raid leader makes such a call, the whole guild has to engage the target like they would do without any competition.

Inny : Kill Inny in his lair, no more pull to ZI (to avoid un-necessary trains). If two or more guilds are competing, the first raid leader to make a shout/ooc stating that their guild is engaging the target gets the first shot. However, when a raid leader makes such a call, the whole guild has to engage the target like they would do without any competition.

Draco / CT : No pre-camp at fear portal even if low in window. WC hat caps / ports from KC / Innothule potions / CT gate potion only.
Draco : Kill Draco in the Graveyard. No zone kiting allowed. If two or more guilds are competing, the first raid leader to make a shout/ooc stating that their guild is engaging the target gets the first shot. However, when a raid leader makes such a call, the whole guild has to engage the target like they would do without any competition.
CT : Zone kiting allowed. If two or more guilds are competing, the first raid leader to make a shout/ooc stating that their guild is engaging the target gets the first shot. However, when a raid leader makes such a call, the whole guild has to engage the target like they would do without any competition.

PoS targets :

Noble/Dojo : Since they are on a fixed timer and that FTE lottery is dumb, if there is a guild already in sky clearing islands, or a group of 6 already there, don't be an ass, let them get first shot at Noble.

Kunark targets :

Gore/Talendor/Faydedar/Severillous : No change. Puller makes a zone shout stating that he pulled that target and brings it to raid. In case of unknown FTE (2 pullers close to Fay for example), I guess a petition will still solve that issue.

VS : No pre-camp in VS prep room. Mobilisation from ZI or KC groups only. If two or more guilds are competing, the first raid leader to make a shout/ooc stating that their guild is engaging the target gets the first shot. However, when a raid leader makes such a call, the whole guild has to engage the target like they would do without any competition.

Trakanon : No pre-camp at poop mountain. Evacs from KC to EJ only for the most part. Those xping in sebilis or around sebilis can gather to poopmountain. If two or more guilds are competing, the first raid leader to make a shout/ooc stating that their guild is engaging the target gets the first shot. However, when a raid leader makes such a call, the whole guild has to engage the target like they would do without any competition.

VP : No change.


Velious targets :

That would be the same.
For static targets, if two or more guilds are competing, the first raid leader to make a shout/ooc stating that their guild is engaging the target gets the first shot. However, when a raid leader makes such a call, the whole guild has to engage the target like they would do without any competition.
For targets pulled to the raid, FTE and bring to the raid. Petition in case of FTE doubt.


Benefits of exposed moral code :
- No more fucking petitions to know who has rights on a mob, more time for GMs to spend on real server issues.
- Less shaddy trains on Inny/Draco kills.
- Now we are talking about competition and mobilisation. Not just logging in and killing. Still have to put hard work to get the loots.
- Guilds not willing to poopsock might give a shot at raid targets
- Gives more interests to wizards and druids in guilds/groups


Disadvantages of exposed moral code:
- Targets will take slightly more time to be killed.
- No real control on where a guild is camped previous to engage. It's based on trust and respect.

To be totally honest, with this proposition, I still see TMO winning most of the targets since they have a much more dedicated crew than other guilds and are quite organised mobilisation wise. But I also see more guilds not interested into poopsocking willing to take part in the raiding scene and willing to live or re-live the thrills of downing (or at least trying to down) a raid target.

Of course, this would only work if people play the game. If your raid leader calls engage, you engage. No shaddy call to grief other guilds. What about taking the high road for once ?

I invite any guild representative to speak in the name of his guild so that we can find an agreement on how to make p99 raiding scene a better place to be, and so that everyone can find what they are looking for.

Thanks for taking the time to read me, and please respect my wishes regarding how to post in this topic,

Yamakasi, raid leader of Bregan D'Aerth

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Questions.

How are guilds supposed to police their players and stop them from stashing any number of alts at raiding camps ahead of time?

How do you police another guild's players?

Punishment for violating this?

Think this is going to be hard to check, as the only people that would find out are other people that are stashing characters in places no one is supposed to be stashed... lol

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Originally Posted by Nocturne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holy Jesus Christ, does everyone on this server just have one shit idea after another or something?

How about, on every single fucking raid boss, whoever manages to do the most damage to the target before it dies, gets the fucking kill?

Why is the most obvious solution not obvious to anyone apparently? I mean just look at it. It's one sentence long and it solves every single problem. Not a single petition should ever be needed and there's virtually no way to exploit this rule.

i know how to exploit it lol

[Nordenwatch]

No one is going to "discuss amongst their guilds" about this because it'll just get ignored. Like stealin said there is no way to enforce this. " no pre-camping" and "only evac from KC to EJ"... what are you going to do, watch everyone who evacs into EJ and note their names down and if others are in seb killing trak they're in violation?

[melkezidek]

Originally Posted by Nocturne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holy Jesus Christ, does everyone on this server just have one shit idea after another or something?

How about, on every single fucking raid boss, whoever manages to do the most damage to the target before it dies, gets the fucking kill?

Why is the most obvious solution not obvious to anyone apparently? I mean just look at it. It's one sentence long and it solves every single problem. Not a single petition should ever be needed and there's virtually no way to exploit this rule.

Has its own down side though. The stacking of rogues and wizzies for kills in raids would go through the roof. The best geared would have major advantages. I liked the First in Force that we did on live but here we would have problems with poop socking and camped chars. I think the biggest help will be the FTE shout or what ever they are putting in.

[Nordenwatch]

Originally Posted by Raptur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the trolls swarm in, Pretty sad that it looks like people cant act like adults.. even in a game.

there's a difference between acting immaturely and acting realistically, this would NEVER work unless every guild on the server was in on it. If 90% of the guilds weren't pre-camping but one decided to, the entire thing would go down the toilet.

[Vandy]

FTE shout will NEVER happen.
As the GMs stated with Inny it's different in every situation.
Where as Inny's FTE actually works differently according to Sirken you have to be the first person to damage the mob and not the first person to be on the aggro list like FTE has been enforced before. With that ruling I officially lost any hope of a FTE shout as was supposed to be "in the works"

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Originally Posted by Raptur [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the trolls swarm in, Pretty sad that it looks like people cant act like adults.. even in a game.

If you think whats posted so far is trollin, you aint seen nothing yet

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Everyone should just post their own Raid Rules and then next week we can make a poll and see who gets the most votes and then everyone can follow those rules the following week.