What was raiding like pre kunark p99?

[Scowlie]

Not sure if serious.

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by Chedduh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- What ever happened to just helping others without expecting any direct benefit to yourself first?

I am now filing papers to get you forcibly removed from R&F.

[OforOppression]

Originally Posted by Glitch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am now filing papers to get you forcibly removed from R&F.

[Chloroform]

Originally Posted by Chedduh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Had an informative post typed out then phone desynced, so i'll keep it short.

- Being a member it seems you would already want to help your guild naturally stay on top without needing incentive to help your fellow guildies, if you need one that is pathetic
- As a guild setting the precedent of treating members the same as any other random by paying them plat for a service is shady as it takes away any sense of special camaraderie
- I never said dkp was acceptable, but understandable since you atleast have to be in the guild to acquire that reward whereas plat you do not have to be tagged (your plat offers to anyone who gets FTE or tracks for your guild winning etc. troll posts or not)
- If you have heaps of it why treat plat help as an incentive when it could/should be used as an aid if you feel that person is worth your tag at all and needs help, why the need for them to complete a task?
- What ever happened to just helping others without expecting any direct benefit to yourself first?

scum bag

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Chedduh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Had an informative post typed out then phone desynced, so i'll keep it short.

- Being a member it seems you would already want to help your guild naturally stay on top without needing incentive to help your fellow guildies, if you need one that is pathetic
- As a guild setting the precedent of treating members the same as any other random by paying them plat for a service is shady as it takes away any sense of special camaraderie
- I never said dkp was acceptable, but understandable since you atleast have to be in the guild to acquire that reward whereas plat you do not have to be tagged (your plat offers to anyone who gets FTE or tracks for your guild winning etc. troll posts or not)
- If you have heaps of it why treat plat help as an incentive when it could/should be used as an aid if you feel that person is worth your tag at all and needs help, why the need for them to complete a task?
- What ever happened to just helping others without expecting any direct benefit to yourself first?

Assisting the guild without any form of compensation is morally commendable, not morally obligatory. Further, trackers are not being paid plat for their services in platinum, they are being paid a bonus should their efforts result in a kill. Platinum is treated as an incentive because the guild bank does not possess sufficient funds to fully compensate every member's needs and wants. Thus, we ration the money out in a proper and non-exhausting way. Also, we cannot use non-TMO trackers for security reasons; this completely eliminates the parallel you have drawn between purchasing services from the public at large and purchasing it from the membership.

Let's think about the situation economically. If a guild member, on their own time, desires to camp an item for a twink they generally have a choice: camp on their own for money, or assist the guild without compensation. What then, is a player with limited online time to do? Incentivizing tracking combines both options into a mutually beneficial arrangement. Your first point fails to recognize the principle above that a player might not always be in a position to assist their guild. Imagine if a player has 10 hours a week to play the game. If he assists his guild for 9 hours, would the 10th hour be selfish or, as you put it, "pathetic," if he chose to camp for a twink item in that last hour?

Your second notion assumes that incentives destroy a sense of camaraderie. That it somehow cannot exist or flourish in the face of monetary rewards. I submit that this is an invalid proposition. I still enjoyed the company of my friends last Thursday just as much as I otherwise could have at the Trak FTE sock fest, and I certainly competed to get FTE to win some money. I find it preposterous to say that my seeking a bonus somehow detracted from the relationship I have with my guildmates.

Thirdly, how is DKP understandable yet not acceptable for tracking purposes? Raid attendance and tracking are two sides of the same coin. Both are processes engaged in to acquire high-end gear. Further, platinum can be used to acquire such gear. In a sense, DKP, gear, and platinum are fairly fungible as each resource can be fairly traded for adequate compensation in the forum of one of the other two resources. It is preposterous to suggest that such related and relatively liquid assets carry with them different ethical distinctions.

Finally, many members of TMO do contribute greatly without any expectation of reward. However, even the best of us can be difficult to motivate when Trakanon is in window and untracked at 3:30 A.M. on a week night.

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stuff

Please speak more and the trolls speak less.

[Chedduh]

his stuff used a lot of conjecture and irrelevant points to justify something his mind conjured up somehow. Having read through all that nonsense he created out of nothing other than to put words into someone's mouth based on his personal assumptions was about as pathetic as my original statement would indicate is the case within his guild. I see time was wasted, just glad i didn't waste as much time as he did.

[Alawen]

Originally Posted by Chedduh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Xasten fucking owned me and I'll shut up now.

FTFY

[Chedduh]

Originally Posted by Alawen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I suck TMO D'

FTFY

His contributions had nothing to do with what i even said, it was all fallacy to whatever he speculated. Why would i waste time explaining something as i had prior for him to just make up whatever he thinks to make some invalid point? Feel free to unlatch from their tip before responding as well please

[whitebandit]

Just wanted to give a shout out to my Homies from the now defunct Dark Ascension!

Quit after Kunark launched myself...

Gringo/Kite - In the house mofuckas


Playing on Lizard now if anyone wants to send me a tell sometime... I dont see many familiar faces these days...