Ikky Necro Question

[miraculous]

I have been back and forth when considering what race to pick for the Necromancer class. I have a good amount of cash and plan on twinking the character.

It seems that the Iksar are by far the best race as per the Regen/Ac benefits. The one downfall to Iksar is I can't stand they way they run. They look retarded when they have SOW on.

I really like the way the DE look with GEB's on and am having a hard time trading that for the regen, but I don't want to get to lvl 50 and wish I was playing an Ikky because their regen is game-changing and I should re-roll.

So I am looking for some direction advice from others. I know eventually you end up spending a lot of time looking like a skeleton anyways, how true is that?

Do you think the Regen is game-changing for an Iksar? Anyone else feel like their run looks quite retarded, did you find that you got used to it?

My purpose for the Necro class is just for farming at higher levels to twink another character that I can super twink another character down the road with. I want to raid, but I don't want to do it on a Necro.

[dhoushi]

IMO Iksar Necro is the only way to go now Kunark is out. The hp regen is amazing and makes them bar none the best necro race combination. Lich form will be making you skeleton all the time you are expin or grouping at 34 when it starts to change your form, pretty much the only time I'm not in lich is when I'm traveling through 'safe locations without Iksar race haters' and when I'm at tunnel. Once you got skeleton form you can use it to bank in major cities that would otherwise be KOS to you, so even then you're going to be in skeleton form unless you want to rep grind. IF your only issue is the sow run model animation you probably should roll one.

Also why twink a Iksar necro? Seems overkill to me, you could spend around 2k, and be very solid stat wise. You don't need to twink a nec out, they do very well without it, if you're planning to twink on a raid toon later on, imo save your real cash for that down the road twink.

[Asap]

Trust me, roll Iksar. There are several threads about this, but ill just keep it short. Do it

[Volibear]

You can feign and regen life at a decent clip as an iksar necro. No reason to go any other race.

[Vexenu]

If you're just making a Necro to farm with, I would suggest you consider going Erudite. You will level faster and have a much larger mana pool wearing equal gear to the Iksar. The added regen is very nice, but the efficiency benefits it brings only come into play over long periods of sustained grinding. I'll re-paste a post I made awhile ago detailing this:

First of all, consider one of the best race/class specific items in the game, the Mantle of Souls, which is Erudite Necro only: http://wiki.project1999.org/Mantle_of_Souls

This is a very nice item you can get with some high level help at any level. And it's right up there with the PoSky shoulder, which is much more of a pain to acquire.

There are also a few popular mid-range Necro items that Iksars can't use, including:

GEBs
Golden Bracer
Golden Chitin Bracer
Tome of Miragul

Given the disparity in starting INT between an Iksar and Erudite (85 vs. 117) and the added INT on the easily obtainable non-Iksar gear, an Erudite Necro is going to have a noticeably larger mana pool than a comparably geared Iksar, on the order of several hundred mana 50+.

For example, assuming 1 INT = 10 mana (around lvl 50ish), the Erudite's 32 INT racial advantage, the GEBs and the Mantle of Souls alone total around 500 extra mana (and that's factoring in the mana from BIS non-raid gear an Iksar would be using, like a Squallsurge Shawl (+50mana) and Grave Sandals (2 INT, +10 mana). Bond of Death costs 360 mana and returns 720 health. At 60, Iksar sitting regen is 18 vs. non-Iksar at 7, so the Iksar regens approximately +66hp per minute over the Erudite. A liched Necro will regen approximately 500 mana per minute at 60 regardless of race. The Erudite/DE mana pool advantage allows for a cast of Bond/Vexing that nullifies the Iksar regen.

My Necro is a level 54 Iksar geared for HP (BS jewelry, Staff of the Waterwalker, HBC,etc...) and is sitting around 1500 HP self buffed, with 2000 mana and 155 INT. An Erudite Necro with identical gear plus GEBs and Mantels of Souls would be around 200 INT with 2500 mana and the same 1500 HP.

All that said, Iksar is still the better Necro race, since max mana isn't really that important over a long grinding/farming session and the regen allows for increased long term efficiency. But if we're talking about short term efficiency starting from full health, full mana, the Erudite is going to enjoy an advantage. They will also make better mana batteries for obvious reasons, although as an Iksar it's nice to be able to med while liched with Regrowth on and lose no health.

So basically, for long term farming sessions, the Necro is indeed the superior race. But for short bursts, the Erudite is unquestionably better due to their much higher mana pool nullifying Iksar regen. If you're making a Necro to farm (95% of people) go Iksar, if you're making one for PvP (more taps) or raiding (lol wut), go Erudite. The conventional wisdom of "go Iksar or go home" with Necros is technically correct, but the Erudite definitely has some considerable advantages as well which should not be overlooked.

So Iksar is technically the best min/max race, but I think Erudites are a strong second, and definitely first in some aspects. I also think they have the coolest looking GEBs in the game.

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're just making a Necro to farm with, I would suggest you consider going Erudite. You will level faster and have a much larger mana pool wearing equal gear to the Iksar. The added regen is very nice, but the efficiency benefits it brings only come into play over long periods of sustained grinding. I'll re-paste a post I made awhile ago detailing this:



So Iksar is technically the best min/max race, but I think Erudites are a strong second, and definitely first in some aspects. I also think they have the coolest looking GEBs in the game.

I kind of skimmed over your post and it looks like you put a lot of thought into it but possibly didn't take into consideration the soft cap on int that is around 200? You mentioned 1 int = 10 mana but that is only true up to 200. Given the int gear available when you start going planar it is pretty easy to hit the 200 cap. My lvl 14 iksar necro is sitting at 180 int (I think) without dumping starting points into int and with hp rings, mana bracers and empty slots.

The basic idea I have always been told is that any race can max int relatively easily, so secondary stats/racial are important for int casters which is why iksar regen is the be all end all for necro class.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by xCry0x [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I kind of skimmed over your post and it looks like you put a lot of thought into it but possibly didn't take into consideration the soft cap on int that is around 200? You mentioned 1 int = 10 mana but that is only true up to 200. Given the int gear available when you start going planar it is pretty easy to hit the 200 cap. My lvl 14 iksar necro is sitting at 180 int (I think) without dumping starting points into int and with hp rings, mana bracers and empty slots.

The basic idea I have always been told is that any race can max int relatively easily, so secondary stats/racial are important for int casters which is why iksar regen is the be all end all for necro class.

You're right about of soft cap, but really that just means the ERU can reach 200 INT much easier and then stack +HP/mana gear instead, like Platinum Tiara, BS jewelry, HBC, Rokyl's crystal, etc...

He said he didn't want to raid so I didn't factor in uber gear into the scenario, just mid-range stuff that can be easily acquired in EC.

Once you get Lich at 49, being an Iksar stacked for INT becomes problematic because even with the extra regen Lich chews through your health very quickly, and a low HP necro has to lich most of his health away to make Bond of Death efficient, which can be dangerous. So at that point you're really forced to start stacking HP gear, which comes at the expense of INT and noticeably reduces your mana pool. For the Erudite this doesn't matter nearly as much because their superior starting INT and +INT itemization (GEBs, Mantle, etc...) So even taking the soft cap into account, the Erudite is going to have a significantly larger mana pool than the Iksar.

[Vexenu]

http://wiki.project1999.org/Magelo_Blue:Erumancer

For kicks I made a Magelo profile demonstrating the degree to which an Erudite Necro can get away with ignoring +INT items. It's pretty impressive. Fully 50% of his slots contain no +INT items at all and he's still sitting at 204 INT. The other half of his slots can be fully devoted to +HP and mana gear. For reference, my Iksar Necro is 54 and similarly geared and has approximately 650 less mana and roughly the same HP.

The Erudite's superior natural INT combined with the non-Iksar items he can use amounts to basically a 50 point INT advantage over the Iksar when both are wearing full HP gear. This obviously gives the Erudite a much larger mana pool, which partially negates the Iksar regen since the Erudite can cast more lifetaps from full mana. The difference is almost enough to allow the Erudite two extra casts of Bond of Death, which would heal 1440 for 720 mana.

I'll warn that the rest of this post is math-heavy and is aimed at Necro enthusiasts and EQ data nerds. Pay attention and don't let your eyes glaze over!

At level 54, every minute while liched the Iksar loses 90 health in exchange for 400 mana, while the Erudite loses 160 health in exchange for 400 mana. So the Iksar efficiency rating is 4.4 mana per hp, while the Erudite's is 2.5 mana per hp. The Erudite must cast Bond every 5 minutes, while the Necro can get away with casting it every 9 minutes. This means the Erudite needs 12 Bonds per hour while the Iksar needs roughly 7.

So the difference every hour is five casts of Bond the Erudite has to make that the Iksar won't. Five casts of Bond costs 1800 mana.

So essentially, starting at t=0, the Erudite has +700 mana over the similarly geared Iksar. But at t=60, the Erudite is at -1100 mana compared to the Iksar due to the necessity of casting more taps. This means that for any duration under approximately 20-25 minutes, the Erudite is more efficient due to the big mana pool. For anything over that, the Iksar regen makes them more efficient. Very interesting.

Although to keep things in perspective, the math shows in the end the Iksar regen only amounts to an advantage that reduces med time by 3 minutes per hour compared to the Erudite (1100 mana advantage per hour for the Iksar, 3 minutes of liched medding = 1200 mana). Necros gonna necro, mana regen being sort of their thing and all.

But this isn't the whole story. Due to the XP penalty, the Iksar will need to kill 20% more mobs per hour to keep up with the Erudite's leveling speed. Let's say the Erudite is able to kill 15 mobs per hour. This means the Iksar would need to kill 18 mobs per hour to stay even. Does a +1100 mana advantage per hour allow you to kill 3 extra mobs at level 54? And can you kill those 3 mobs in less than the 3 minutes it would take the Erudite to med up and offset the per-hour mana penalty? Probably not.

So ultimately the math tells us that the Iksar is indeed the more efficient Necro race for any time over 25ish minutes. However, despite this advantage they will level slower than the Erudite, because their efficiency increases are not sufficient to offset the XP penalty. It roughly works out to a 5% efficiency advantage for Iksars, at the cost of a 20% XP penalty (Erudite needs an extra 3 min of med time per level to offset Iksar regen advantage; 3/60 = 5%).

At the end of the day, the Iksar will be a more efficient camp holder/farmer due to their regen, while the Erudite will be a faster leveler, superior PvPer, better raider (bigger mana battery) and better at breaking difficult camps and killing tough mobs solo due to their noticeably larger mana pool. It's just a matter of which you prefer.

I would be grateful if anyone could point out any mathematical errors or erroneous assumptions I've made here.

[webrunner5]

The best thing about having a Iksar anything is that you KNOW that everybody hates your ass other than in Cabilis. So you don't have to worry about well maybe this vender will sell or not, or maybe this guard really likes me or not, or if I kill either one my faction will go to shit. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just kill everything and anything and feel good about it. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Life is good.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by miraculous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The one downfall to Iksar is I can't stand they way they run. They look retarded when they have SOW on.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jokes aside, people have the weirdest criteria for picking races... I never thought about running animations before making a toon. Surely the way the robe flows on an iksar is worth playing one alone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]