Bard song Kelin's Lucid Lullaby resists seem f'ed up

[Deverell]

I'd been noticing extreme resist rates against blue mobs while leveling in dungeons, but for a while I attributed it to them probably having been buffed with magic resist by nearby caster mobs. Then I was helping some low-level dude who was fighting the froglok guards outside Guk, and when I tried to mez them, I got the same resist rate (I'd estimate it to be somewhere between 30% and 50%) as on content my own level. Suspicious, I went and pulled some level 1 mobs and sure enough the song was resisted at about a rate of 30-50% on them as well. Is this intended? I'm level 34 and have 121 charisma, not that it should matter really. It seemed to make no difference whether or not I equipped a stringed instrument.

[falkun]

They changed it due to the mass mezzing of Karnor's during Venril Sathir slaying. They claim to make it classic, but either way the implementation is that there is a negative resist check modifier against the casters level, which means the higher level the bard is, the more likely it is for that song to fail (on top of higher level mobs resisting more often than lower level mobs). You're L34...use Pixie Strike.

[Deverell]

So AoE mez has effectively been removed as a feature of the bard class? Good stuff...

[Vhayne]

Wait just a minute here. So, people gripe that bards are always swarm kiting. So, I've been trying to group a lot when I can.

After I got the AE Mez song, I realized just how valuable I was in a group setting inside of dungeons. I still got resists every once in a while, but it worked well enough to be extremely useful.

I've been trying exclusively to group in dungeons since this song has made me fall in love with the class, and let me be one of the VITAL roles in the group (crowd control).

But are you saying that now that I've hit level 27 (been soloing since 24), that the ONE thing that made me absolutely LOVE the bard is freaking broke/nerfed/etc.?!?!?!

I don't believe I have ever been so angry at a change that would make me absolutely abandon a character/class in any mmo I've ever played. But I swear, this news makes me consider it.

What a shame.

So, if that's the case, then I suppose if I want to play my bard, then I'll just simply AE Swarm kite since the most important grouping aspect for me has been ruined. So F the complainers I guess. I'd much rather be grouping and AE mezzing for my group.....

Effing stupid!


(now if you tell me that I can get my cha up enough for it to be viable, then I'll listen)

[Daldaen]

I thought they changed it to not refresh a mez on a mob already mezzed.

[Vhayne]

Maybe I'm jumping the gun here. I logged into my bard and tried to mez 1 mob that was blue to me at level 26 (thought it was 27), and I was able to keep him mezzed (without recasting) indefinitely. Never a resist.

Then I logged onto my friend's 60 bard to test. Level 60 mezzing a group of the same mobs, constant resists. Rarely it would land on 1 out of 6 mobs, but the next cast would resist on the same mob, and then full resists, then back to 1 out of the 6 being mezzed while the rest resisted again.

If it's intended so that higher level bards aren't mezzing entire swarms of green mobs. then that is totally fine. I don't mind that a bit. Definitely seems like it would be overpowered.

But if I can't AE mez mobs that I would be exping on (blues, whites, etc.), then I'd say that spell is broken, or nerfed enough to completely break it. Is this going to change on me as I level up, and the spell is useless?

The balance is that it doesn't last more than 1 tick, so you can't twist while keeping a group of 4 mobs mezzed. The bard is locked down at this point. Whereas an enchanter with an AE mez has time to do whatever else is needed since his AE mez lasts a lot longer (still not as long as a single target mez of course).

[Archestratie]

I thought this game was meant to be as close to classic as possible. Why would they change this song if that's not the way it was during classic?

[Crawdad]

Wait just a minute here. So, people gripe that bards are always swarm kiting. So, I've been trying to group a lot when I can.

After I got the AE Mez song, I realized just how valuable I was in a group setting inside of dungeons. I still got resists every once in a while, but it worked well enough to be extremely useful.

I've been trying exclusively to group in dungeons since this song has made me fall in love with the class, and let me be one of the VITAL roles in the group (crowd control).

But are you saying that now that I've hit level 27 (been soloing since 24), that the ONE thing that made me absolutely LOVE the bard is freaking broke/nerfed/etc.?!?!?!

I don't believe I have ever been so angry at a change that would make me absolutely abandon a character/class in any mmo I've ever played. But I swear, this news makes me consider it.

What a shame.

So, if that's the case, then I suppose if I want to play my bard, then I'll just simply AE Swarm kite since the most important grouping aspect for me has been ruined. So F the complainers I guess. I'd much rather be grouping and AE mezzing for my group.....

Effing stupid!


(now if you tell me that I can get my cha up enough for it to be viable, then I'll listen)

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=724

http://theconcerthall.yuku.com/topic/3294/Repost-Young-Bard-Guide#.UyDN-oW3s0c

http://web.archive.org/web/20021028062415/http://eqdiva.com/songs.asp?song=17

tl;dr It got resisted Way more on Live than it was being resisted here, so they fixed it.

The change is in line with being classic-- bards did not use AE mez once they had Pixie Strike because of the crazy resist rate on Lullaby. If AE Mez'ing was a great/amazing/the Only reason you'd play Bard, then I think you should step away and consider something may have been amiss. Some crazy QQ going on in this thread over one (busted) song.

[Wrench]

tl;dr It got resisted Way more on Live than it was being resisted here, so they fixed it.

The change is in line with being classic-- bards did not use AE mez once they had Pixie Strike because of the crazy resist rate on Lullaby. If AE Mez'ing was a great/amazing/the Only reason you'd play Bard, then I think you should step away and consider something may have been amiss. Some crazy QQ going on in this thread over one (busted) song.

actually no crap talking on the spell till about may 2001 (beyond our current point in timeline)

infact some of the comments in your links talk that this may have been nerfed at some point

sure you know what your talkin about and everyone else is just qq?

[Vhayne]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=724

http://theconcerthall.yuku.com/topic/3294/Repost-Young-Bard-Guide#.UyDN-oW3s0c

http://web.archive.org/web/20021028062415/http://eqdiva.com/songs.asp?song=17

tl;dr It got resisted Way more on Live than it was being resisted here, so they fixed it.

The change is in line with being classic-- bards did not use AE mez once they had Pixie Strike because of the crazy resist rate on Lullaby. If AE Mez'ing was a great/amazing/the Only reason you'd play Bard, then I think you should step away and consider something may have been amiss. Some crazy QQ going on in this thread over one (busted) song.

Don't get me wrong. I still like the bard class. What pulled me into it was the AE Swarm kiting. Then I got the AE mez, and began grouping. I then fell in love with the class once I realized it's potential. Honestly, as I said above, I didn't think it was imbalanced as when you are AE mezzing, you have to stay right there with the group of mobs, and can't twist any more songs.

So to my surprise when I read this thread, I was heartbroken. Will I keep my bard? Of course I will. Still have a lot of fun with him. Will I group with him anymore? Nowhere near the amount I was before, what's the point? Twisting songs isn't "that" much fun in a group setting. Swarm kiting is boring, but satisfying when accomplished. DPS isn't that great, and neither is the regen song. I mean sure, it helps. But the one thing that made the bard SHINE in a group setting (the entire point of this post), is the AE mezzing. It enabled a group to take on a camp that it otherwise could not.

[Crawdad]

Link to the relevant original source for all this jazz:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52422
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=466959&postcount=27 specifically.

actually no crap talking on the spell till about may 2001 (beyond our current point in timeline)

infact some of the comments in your links talk that this may have been nerfed at some point
Yeah, unfortunately I was at work and posted what I found in <5mins of research and omitted the p99 research/discussion. Some of them are a few months after Velious, some are years later. The above link goes back to early 2000 and is why Lullaby works the way it does here, and Nizzarr's other posts contain plenty of better information than I provided as well. I also played a Bard a month before Kunark until LDoN, and remember how terrible Lullaby was.

sure you know what your talkin about and everyone else is just qq?

I almost replied to you but then read your post history. I can't believe they actually let you post.

Don't get me wrong. I still like the bard class. What pulled me into it was the AE Swarm kiting. Then I got the AE mez, and began grouping. I then fell in love with the class once I realized it's potential. Honestly, as I said above, I didn't think it was imbalanced as when you are AE mezzing, you have to stay right there with the group of mobs, and can't twist any more songs.

So to my surprise when I read this thread, I was heartbroken. Will I keep my bard? Of course I will. Still have a lot of fun with him. Will I group with him anymore? Nowhere near the amount I was before, what's the point? Twisting songs isn't "that" much fun in a group setting. Swarm kiting is boring, but satisfying when accomplished. DPS isn't that great, and neither is the regen song. I mean sure, it helps. But the one thing that made the bard SHINE in a group setting (the entire point of this post), is the AE mezzing. It enabled a group to take on a camp that it otherwise could not.

Bards are a great class! Truly unique in MMOs, and Bard/Ench are why a lot of us are here. AE Mez is honestly overrated and unnecessary most of the time. I was jealous on Live of Enchanters (as Crowd Control is my favorite job), but after playing one on Progression and on p99, AE Mez is the least amazing thing Bards lack. The "point" of a Bard in a group is much more complicated and much more demanding than just spamming AE Mez.

But the one thing that made the bard SHINE in a group setting (the entire point of this post), is the AE mezzing. It enabled a group to take on a camp that it otherwise could not. I honestly have No idea what you mean by this, unless you're talking about AE Mezing Fear or KC or something.

[Vhayne]

To clarify....

We formed a group in Najena (can't remember what level we were), and attempted to take out the 2 goblin camps. One of the camps had 5 goblins along with around 2 or 3 mage pets, so a total of 7-8 mobs.

At that level, clerics heals suck. The mobs were blue, so it was inline with what our group "should" be able to handle technically.

Well, if it hadn't been for me with the AE mez, we would have wiped numerous times. But because I was able to hold the mobs back we were able to break the camp and we had a great night of some challenging, and exciting exp. :)

That instance is what I mean by (I fell in love with the class). That's when it happened.

We did the same thing in Runnyeye the other night. An incredibly hard dungeon to exp in. But we were able to do it, because of the AE mez. Could we do it without? Perhaps. It was just simply fun as hell being able to AE them though. Yes there were resists. Mez broke, crap happened. It was not even close to trivial. It was definatley still a challenge.

[DevGrousis]

Has anyone seen a positive change in resist rates?

I have been in MM for about 6 hours today, and my resist rate is way higher than 50%. I can understand that it's a bit of an OP spell, but.. was it this bad on live? No, I don't think so, but I wouldn't know how to check for sure.

If its been changed on purpose, then it would be nice to hear so. If its broke, it would be nice to see it fixed. Dont want to go back to swarm kiting ;*(. Couldn't stand all the /ooc hate i got, to the point where i was only pulling 15 or so at a time.