Best 3 Combination?

[a2j2t]

--

[Alawen Everywhere]

Are you willing to play a shadowknight? Is the enchanter comfortable with charming? If so, I think that might work for the three of you.

[Gorgetrapper]

Shaman/druid/cleric
Enchanter
Warrior/SK/Pally

Each combination have their ups and downs.

[guineapig]

Enchanter, Druid, Paladin.

My god, I feel like I answer this question once every other week...

Reason:
heal
slow
haste
nuke
dot
charm
root
snare
mez
regen
mana regen
strength, hitpoint, int/wis, agility and AC buffs
debuffs
damage shields
invis
invis vs. undead
massive stunlock
sow
teleports
quick evac
lull
Runes
resurection
banes versus undead as well as animals, summoned creatures and plants (come Kunark)
all resist types covered
Mana leeching spells (multiple come Kunark)
tracking


Need I say more?

Any outdoor zone, any type of dungeon, underwater... You name it, this trio can do it!
And once Kunark and Velious are out druid teleports become key!!!

[Skope]

necro/shaman/monk

truly fantastic DPS coupled with great mana regen! can also split, slow will decrease the need for heals, incredible buffs and snare those runners. Necro can heal and/or mana battery if needed and even root-mez. If you're willing to get a few essence emeralds (in kunark at least) you'll be able to do your own corpse summons and rezzes if things go awry.

the one thing that may hurt are caster mobs, the necro stun is very short duration and has quite a recast timer.

[a2j2t]

==

[Alawen Everywhere]

I don't understand why that would matter.

[a2j2t]

--

[guineapig]

I hear it's nearly impossible to keep a trio going unless they're all either good factioned or evil. Does that factor into anything?

If you are leveling with friends it might even be better to have a mix of good and evil. That way no matter where you are at least 1 person could travel into the city to sell, bank, get items that can't be purchased elsewhere.

I only see advantages to having various factions in your group.

Also if you have a chanter in your trio (agnostic of course) then you don't even need the variety.

[RKromwell]

If you don't want to play an enchanter you could sub in a bard. Not as good but you get haste and mana regen. That and you can sit back and scream at them to sing for their supper.

[a2j2t]

--

[RKromwell]

That isn't bad, you can all start in the Qeynos area as well.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I highly recommend against that combination.

The druid will not be able to keep the shadowknight healed after about level 30.

Chicanery's ideas about this game are based on theory/versatility and not on practicality/efficiency.

The druid is basically good for sow and ports. Druid DPS and healing abilities are extremely limited at level 50. If you like that mobility, so be it, but you will find yourself very hindered when the druid gains no new heal spells after Greater Healing.

Alternately, you can start working on making friends with a good cleric.

[Haynar]

Druid.
Necro.
Chanter.

If you want a challenge.

[Alawen Everywhere]

After a long discussion with other experienced players, my choice would be shaman, mage and necro.

We're going to level the group in Kunark.

[astarothel]

Rofl. We have decided! We're all very stubborn, so it was difficult, but we're sticking with it!

Druid
Enchanter
Shadowknight

:o

I would ditch the Dru for a CLR if youre intent on a 3 part tank/dps/heals combo. You might run slow, but you'll be amazing for instance grouping.

[Nocte]

Shaman, monk, [any dps class]

Suprised no one mentioned that one.

Wizard would fit in nicely for portability, a pet class or a rogue/ranger would fit in as limited insurance against adds the monk can't immediately tank.

[guineapig]

I highly recommend against that combination.

The druid will not be able to keep the shadowknight healed after about level 30.

Chicanery's ideas about this game are based on theory/versatility and not on practicality/efficiency.

The druid is basically good for sow and ports. Druid DPS and healing abilities are extremely limited at level 50. If you like that mobility, so be it, but you will find yourself very hindered when the druid gains no new heal spells after Greater Healing.

Alternately, you can start working on making friends with a good cleric.

I currently have a level 41 druid that regularly plays main healer in groups for tanks that are much higher level. We're not talking about raid mobs here. This is vanilla EQ mobs.

Druid with clarity can keep up on heals just fine with a tank that's one on one versus a slowed mob. And why is it one on one? Because of the chanter. The paladin also serves a dual purpose because he can always spot heal between fights (since he also has clarity). Let's not forget that a chanter can simply mez the mob if things get ugly in a 3 person scenario and the paladin has lay hands.

What's very important to keep in mind here is that the knight classes have by and large the worst DPS in the game. You need to account for that if you are trying to build the most efficient and versatile 3 person group you can come up with.

What outside of planar mobs and dragons would that trio not be able to take on exactly??? The mobs are slowed, the adds are mezzed.
Sure there are a couple of tough mobs in the game... Freeti comes to mind. But you just have a charmed pet tank for that. Problem solved.
And before you question that, I have been in a Freeti group with a druid, SK and a charmed pet about a week ago. There was no cleric there.

Also post level 50 paladins and druids both get better heals, and the enchanter gets a better slow.

You are thinking in raid terms and that's not what the OP was asking for.

Clerics provide zero utility to a three person group. I would never give up on ports, snare and sow in a three man team in favor of a class that just CH's one every minute and then sits there medding the rest of the time. Sure the cleric can nuke great versus undead mobs but to do that you are loosing all the healing mana efficiency that you are striving for in exchange for a nuke a fight and nothing else.

[Uaellaen]

Clerics provide zero utility to a three person group.
Lull, root, stun ... just to name some of the "utilities" you seem to like in every single one of your post ;) on top lvl 39+ clerics surpass everyone on healing thanks to complete heal, wich is also less agro then 20+ of your druid heals (to heal the equal amount) ... also, paladin rez? lol? all you get in classic is revive 0% exp rez...

if thats not utility enought, the clerics hp buffs are unmatched ...

[guineapig]

Lull, root, stun ... just to name some of the "utilities" you seem to like in every single one of your post ;) on top lvl 39+ clerics surpass everyone on healing thanks to complete heal, wich is also less agro then 20+ of your druid heals (to heal the equal amount) ... also, paladin rez? lol? all you get in classic is revive 0% exp rez...

if thats not utility enought, the clerics hp buffs are unmatched ...

You are mentioning abilities that are already covered and missing out half a dozen by dropping the druid.

All three classes I am using have root, all three have lull (2 if your indoors). All three classes have stun.

Sure clerics have the very best heal in the game along with the best HP buffs. In exchange they don't have many of the abilities that a druid has.
Only 2 classes in the game have ports, and in Classic through Velious being able to port your group around is priceless.

Paladins have no trouble keeping agro off a druid with stun and blind. I never have a problem in groups.
I know their rez sucks but it's a last ditch effort to get another member of the group back to the team when things go bad and your too deep in a dungeon for the player to simply run back. In other words, it's good enough for the main purpose it serves, minimizing downtime.

Sorry but if you are doing a 3 person "A Team" to run around the world and level up together then druid beats cleric hands down.
Don't get me wrong, I love clerics but in exp groups they are usually hovering at 80% mana if they have clarity and are rarely the ones lulling mobs or stunning casters. Do you really want you main healer getting agro by chain stunning mobs when you have a chanter in the group anyway?

[Uaellaen]

Even if you only use the cleric for buffs and heals, he is still way worth it ... HP / AC buffs are unmatched by any other class, and 34+ the healing also until kunark is released, and then 39+ for good ;)

[guineapig]

Even if you only use the cleric for buffs and heals, he is still way worth it ... HP / AC buffs are unmatched by any other class, and 34+ the healing also until kunark is released, and then 39+ for good ;)

As I said before, I completely 100% agree with the fact that clerics have the best heal and hp buffs in the game. I was never arguing this.

What I'm saying is that in a three person group leveling from 1 to 50 (later 60), simply being the best at keeping the tank alive is not enough.

The druid can also keep the tank alive. It's not that difficult. You are exchanging ten things one class simply cannot do EVER for 2 things that the class does better (but are not exclusive abilities). It's not a good trade.

[Weekapaug]

Tanks = Need for adequate support, particularly past level 50 in Kunark and Velious, and proper support if you plan to safely and reliably get things done.

So, if you plan to do anything past classic and past level 50 with this trio AND one of you plans to be a tank, then it behooves you to have a cleric and something that slows, which narrows your possibilities quite a bit and will slow your trio down quite a bit because you will have to sacrifice DPS to accomodate the tank.

In this case, I would go with SK + Cleric + Enchanter.

I prefer shamans, really, and the cleric could handle most Paci situations in the absense of the enchanter as well as root CC, but the enchanter will give you mana regen that the shammy wont, the best CC available when the shit hits the fan (and it will), which the shaman wont (beyond root), haste and almost as good slows/debuffs, and with charm will help make up for your lack of DPS that you have by needing a cleric to heal a tank. The enchanter will also bring the best (I think) Magic resist buff in the game, which may be just enough to tip you over into being able to handle caster mobs you might not otherwise as a trio, and can chain cast rune, which also might put you over the line on dealing with mobs you might not otherwise as a trio. I choose SK over other tanks because of FD, snare, and extremely reliable snap aggro. You don't want a lot of iffy-ness in a trio which the other two tanks will bring more of, IMO.

If you drop the tank, you open the possibilities up quite a lot. I would say something like a Necro + Mage + Shaman in that case, just off the top of my head.

If you are just banging around in classic or pre-50 Kunark your options open up a lot more. Hell, just about 3 of anything that can keep one another from dying will suffice in most of Classic, especially if it does that through overwhelming DPS on some semblance of single-pulled or crowd controlled mobs...Like a Bard/Enchanter and 2 Mages. Despite what some will claim to the contrary, pre-Kunark is ez-mode EQ when it comes to actual fights and you have quite a bit of leeway in how you build your trio here right now if this is all you are going to play, really.

[Weekapaug]

As I said before, I completely 100% agree with the fact that clerics have the best heal and hp buffs in the game. I was never arguing this.

What I'm saying is that in a three person group leveling from 1 to 50 (later 60), simply being the best at keeping the tank alive is not enough.

The druid can also keep the tank alive. It's not that difficult. You are exchanging ten things one class simply cannot do EVER for 2 things that the class does better (but are not exclusive abilities). It's not a good trade.

Simply keeping the the tank alive is not enough if you plan to actually get anything done.

Past 50, Tank = Must have a cleric. End of story. Unless, maybe, the other two in the trio is a shaman and a druid, but even then I would still be making a diamond as that tank. Especially knowing no rez is at hand when they inevitably fail at keeping him up.

This is EverQuest, not some other game, and clerics aren't simply "the best" healers.....They are THE healers past a certain point in the game. Druid and Shaman heals were intended for patch healing, not for keeping tanks up pull-in and pull-out.

[Alawen Everywhere]

As I said before, I completely 100% agree with the fact that clerics have the best heal and hp buffs in the game. I was never arguing this.

What I'm saying is that in a three person group leveling from 1 to 50 (later 60), simply being the best at keeping the tank alive is not enough.

The druid can also keep the tank alive. It's not that difficult. You are exchanging ten things one class simply cannot do EVER for 2 things that the class does better (but are not exclusive abilities). It's not a good trade.

Saying something over and over does not make it true. Druids are the worst healer of the priests because their best heal is Greater Healing (300 hit points for 150 mana) and lack of any mana regeneration ability beyond manastone/chloroplast which will likely not be available to this crew. Around level 30, using a druid as main healer with a tank becomes a very limiting factor both in terms of which mobs are possible and how many mana breaks are necessary. Because of run speed problems on eqemu, snare is unnecessary and if it was, a cleric of Innoruuk can get a snare necklace. The world is not very large in classic. Camp jboots or buy sow potions and if you need a port, buy one.

You're simply incorrect.

[Daywolf]

2 Drui 1 Enc :D

[twizztid]

War / Pal / SK
Clr
Ench

Druids = good but shit heals.

Shaman is good aswell but shitter heals.

In the end you're looking for a puller and tank, CC and fun buffs, and healer / buffer. ANY of the 3 tank choices is a good choice really. I would recommend strongly a cleric. Awesome buffs, awesome heals, and they have other cool things that can really help such as root, against undead nukes ect ect, but in the end you're looking for a healer, and if you want to stay alive, cleric is best bet IMO. As for CC and fun buffs, well a bard is reallllllly nice to have for more than many obvious reasons, but I think in the end if you want that CC and those amazing buffs to be more powerful and to stay ( opposed to a bard singing the songs ) as well as a pet to help the melee, I would suggest Enchanter oppossed to bard, although the extra DPS from a bard would be really nice.

EDIT: And not to mention if you DO die, you're CLERIC can rez >:}

[guineapig]

Saying something over and over does not make it true. Druids are the worst healer of the priests because their best heal is Greater Healing (300 hit points for 150 mana) and lack of any mana regeneration ability beyond manastone/chloroplast which will likely not be available to this crew. Around level 30, using a druid as main healer with a tank becomes a very limiting factor both in terms of which mobs are possible and how many mana breaks are necessary. Because of run speed problems on eqemu, snare is unnecessary and if it was, a cleric of Innoruuk can get a snare necklace. The world is not very large in classic. Camp jboots or buy sow potions and if you need a port, buy one.

You're simply incorrect.

Alright I will acquiesce.
Post level 50 and in Kunark druid heals are not enough. (I forgot how badly their heals scale in Kunark, my bad).

That being said in classic I still believe that a druid is enough based on experience. You mention lack of mana regen on a solo healer when you already know that my example included an enchanter with clarity and 2 member that have greater healing, not 1.

My setup revolves around complete self reliance of a three person team; basically not requiring the assistance of a 4th player to accomplish anything. If you add players to the group you are simply making the existing setup even more solid.

So I will leave it at this: Pre level 50 classic EQ, you can do fine with my group. Having slowed and mezzed mobs + the only tank in the game that can heal self and others makes up for the weaker heal. The utility gained makes leveling up through classic much easier. Post level 50 you are correct and I was wrong. :o

[Jify]

Personally..

SHA/ENC/MAG

You have uber heals, CCs, puller, tank, DPS. Who the hell needs tracks?

[akahdrin]

Mage, Necro, Shaman


Necro covers pulling / dps / utility cc

Mage is pure dps / low mana cost for new pets / ds

Shaman gives pets durability via buffs...but more importantly through slow. Gotta figure a slowed mob effectily raises a person's hit points by a % that the mob is slowed...pretty handy!

Since you have 3 pets, it's pretty fast for killing. You never have to worry about healing as well because the mage pet should be tanking quite easily. Plus it's a joke for him to resummon it mana wise.

[Cogwell]

I keep seeing people saying Druids are better healers than shaman on these forums.

a) they have the exact same heals til Shaman get Torpor and Druids get ... nada.

b) ghetto CHs are from luclin, I think. Even if those exist, they suck and I'd still say Shaman.

[rioisk]

Cogwell - you are right, druids and shamans get the same heals. I think when people say that that druids are better it's for other reasons such as shamans are better used for other things than healer compared to druids. For instance, shamans receive slows and nice procing melee weapons. Druids on the other hand receive things like damage shields. I think it's just a matter of perspective but it is true that they are essentially the same in terms of healing spells.

[Landis]

shaman are better healers because of slow alone, there isn't much of a debate there

[guineapig]

I keep seeing people saying Druids are better healers than shaman on these forums.
a) they have the exact same heals

I 100% agree and would not say otherwise. Shaman makes the better choice for a 3 person team if you do not have an enchanter due to slow but there is a little issue with that. In a three person group if your shaman is doing all his buffs on the tank, hasting the tank and slowing the mobs, and healing the tank.. Well that's pretty obscene in the demand department. Sure it could be done but it's extremely inefficient. SO chances are the shaman won't be doing both slow and heals all the time. Honestly the need for slow in Classic is fairly low aside from certain bigger mobs.


shaman are better healers because of slow alone, there isn't much of a debate there

If you have a chanter then you would pick the druid over the shaman due to the overlapping of class abilities (haste, slow, etc.). It all depends on what else the group consists of.

Using both an enchanter and a shaman created a bit of a redundancy in the sense that a good enchanter can slow all incoming mobs and CC without much issue. Then you have your shaman not slowing mobs ever which negates the main advantage you are giving the shaman. It comes down to what you prefer, the big buffs, dog pet and additional source of slow/haste (additional due to enchanter) or the ports, snare, evac, big nukes.

[Ripcord]

Srsly mag nec ench would rape faces but you'll fight over every pretty dress that drops

[Cogwell]

For instance, shamans receive slows and nice procing melee weapons. Druids on the other hand receive things like damage shields.

Thanks for letting us know that Shaman get slows and druids get damage shields. Thats, like, easter-egg secret stuff that I'm sure no one here knew :p

[Smashu]

Wouldn't a Bard be a lot better than an Enchanter in the Enchanter - Paladin - Cleric trio? He can do most of what an Enchanter does, not quite as well, but also adds some much needed DPS. I would imagine the kills would be incredibly slow in that group even with a twinked Paladin. Not to mention he adds movement abilities to negate the Druid idea.

[guineapig]

Wouldn't a Bard be a lot better than an Enchanter in the Enchanter - Paladin - Cleric trio? He can do most of what an Enchanter does, not quite as well, but also adds some much needed DPS. I would imagine the kills would be incredibly slow in that group even with a twinked Paladin. Not to mention he adds movement abilities to negate the Druid idea.

If you replace the enchanter with the bard, you would probably also replace the druid... in which case you are dealing witha completely different group setup.

Bard has snare and DS and great resist but his own DPS is shit. Bard DPS does best in a group with 3-4 melee classes. If the bard is just hasting himself and the tank it's not that noticeable.

Also don't forget that if the bard is mezzing adds or charming, or pulling then during that time you are barely getting the benefits of all the buff songs.
Yes a bard is extremely versatile (one of my favorite classes), but you would probably want a completely different group to complement him.

Bards are awesome for duos (not to mention solo). Snare kite with a druid or necro, fear kite with a necro or SK. Quad kite with a druid or wizard. Bard can truly shine in these scenarios. But I'm getting sidetracked...