not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[Kelven]

A lot of us really enjoy the raiding here on p99!

Quite far from the truth.

[Cecily]

Yeah I hate it.

[Thulack]

Don't people remember live? TMO is chokeholding the raid scene agreed, but so did every other guild who was sittin on the pole position raid wise (ohaipun). Like I said before, the server created a monster out of TMO. If people didnt treat this 14 year old elf simulator like religion and pay all these retarded amounts of runed mithril tunics for pixels and accounts, then the evil force of the server wouldnt exist. The only way to immerse a nerd further in is to pay him to do it, and yalls the ones puttin numbers into their paypals

Wrong.

[Crazyeye]

What I don't get is at this point is it not considered griefing to monopolize content to this extent? If a guild on this server composed of all high level characters made it a mission to go and monopolize every newbie zone in the game insuring that no new character could level up from 1-5 would the GMs not step in and stop them? Or would newbies have to run around trying to FTE rats and bats?



Plush, i like you but come on now griefing? It'd be pretty hard to monopolize 50+ mobs in 9+ starting zones, but in the raiding scene there is no where else to move to after being 2 and a half years overdue for velious, so we try to keep entertained with what we currently have to raid which is pretty limited considering the amount of level 60's on two and a half years of stagnant content

[Faerie Blossom]

What I don't get is at this point is it not considered griefing to monopolize content to this extent? If a guild on this server composed of all high level characters made it a mission to go and monopolize every newbie zone in the game insuring that no new character could level up from 1-5 would the GMs not step in and stop them? Or would newbies have to run around trying to FTE rats and bats?

I think it'd be pretty interesting to see guilds doing this as a protest. Level 60 raid guilds killing everything in 1-5 areas. Occupy newbies zones like TMO/FE does raid zones! ¡Viva la Revolución! :P

[Nune]

Not sure what shitty server on live you played on, but if it was anything like P1999 then I feel sorry for you. Live was an entirely different scene on my server.

Two extra years really plays a part into the Kunark scene and when one guild monopolizes the raid mobs by selling epic pieces for huge plat amounts, buying accounts, and sitting on three different raid spawns, it's time for something to be done about it. Instead the dev's just sit back and let TMO ruin what would otherwise be a great classic experience for 95% of the server.

I played on Tallon Zek, so yes the circumstances were different then the bluebie-diehards that occupy P99; you didnt have top train guilds out of mobs; you just murdered them. I think you're trying to spin finite details away from the underlying cause. On live, this did happen. But guilds would just go reroll on other servers when they found the raid scene occupied: here we can't, because Nihi did on the only other classic server we have access to (that isnt a crock of shit). I just find this whole situation perplexing.. IB pulls shady shit to maintain the top slot, die by the sword they lived by. Baby TMO takes notes from the trailblazers, then when they gain their position of power, they're scum of the earth while only TMO members stand to point out what IB was doing when they had their time to shine.

What a fucking thundergun-esque response.

We'll come back for youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[LiQuid]

Plush, i like you but come on now griefing? It'd be pretty hard to monopolize 50+ mobs in 9+ starting zones, but in the raiding scene there is no where else to move to after being 2 and a half years overdue for velious, so we try to keep entertained with what we currently have to raid which is pretty limited considering the amount of level 60's on two and a half years of stagnant content

Was just asking a question. A few days ago FC was in Hate with a full raid force clearing the zone when Inny popped and within moments TMO and FE were in there making a disaster out of our raid. How hard would it have been for you guys to come up and say "oh hey, this guild is already here with a sufficient force, let's back down for a while and let them try it out?" Instead of just turned into a massive cluster eff that literally ruined our evening. Even though we did manage to get FTE and awarded loot, we were denied a chance to even attempt the kill legitimately because of ePeen nonsense. This is the type of deliberate stomping on lesser guilds' fun that strikes me as griefing more than just trying to keep entertained.

I understand wanting to try and keep the game fun with nowhere else to go in the game but host a newbie race and give away some banked loot to the winner or have some in-game weddings to help lighten the mood on the server. I've grouped with bunch of TMO folks over the course of Plush's life and there's a lot of legitimately cool people there but why do I never hear stories of TMO magnanimity? It's just stomping and hoarding and stomping and more stomping. Is a Full Circle ranger or necro getting an epic really going to hurt TMO's chance at dominance in Velious?

[xarzzardorn]

Was just asking a question. A few days ago FC was in Hate with a full raid force clearing the zone when Inny popped and within moments TMO and FE were in there making a disaster out of our raid. How hard would it have been for you guys to come up and say "oh hey, this guild is already here with a sufficient force, let's back down for a while and let them try it out?" Instead of just turned into a massive cluster eff that literally ruined our evening. Even though we did manage to get FTE and awarded loot, we were denied a chance to even attempt the kill legitimately because of ePeen nonsense. This is the type of deliberate stomping on lesser guilds' fun that strikes me as griefing more than just trying to keep entertained.

I understand wanting to try and keep the game fun with nowhere else to go in the game but host a newbie race and give away some banked loot to the winner or have some in-game weddings to help lighten the mood on the server. I've grouped with bunch of TMO folks over the course of Plush's life and there's a lot of legitimately cool people there but why do I never hear stories of TMO magnanimity? It's just stomping and hoarding and stomping and more stomping. Is a Full Circle ranger or necro getting an epic really going to hurt TMO's chance at dominance in Velious?

your guild is lead by retards and it shows. after the ooa attempt and ninjaing dojorn it's clear that you deserve no sympathy. and you can thank fe for the clusterfuck since their tactic is just train mobs on inny pullers until they have the pull and then FFA the fte

tmo and fe go for inny because they want him. nothing is stopping you from doing the same

[maverixdamighty]

HhhooooooOOOLLLYYY COOOOIWWW mad lol

guy is a newer TMO member who should at least let valuable tmo members do the trolling instead of himself.

[Tasslehofp99]

your guild is lead by retards and it shows. after the ooa attempt and ninjaing dojorn it's clear that you deserve no sympathy. and you can thank fe for the clusterfuck since their tactic is just train mobs on inny pullers until they have the pull and then FFA the fte

tmo and fe go for inny because they want him. nothing is stopping you from doing the same

Lol how you gonna make a post like this and then try and defend your guilds actions and policies, damn!

[quido]

Mav you should really be informed before insulting someone for just being newerish - Xarz is one of the most clutch players we have now, new or not.

[LiQuid]

your guild is lead by retards and it shows. after the ooa attempt and ninjaing dojorn it's clear that you deserve no sympathy. and you can thank fe for the clusterfuck since their tactic is just train mobs on inny pullers until they have the pull and then FFA the fte

tmo and fe go for inny because they want him. nothing is stopping you from doing the same

I didn't know that being retarded and trying new things just for the sake of having fun without being hell bent on "winning" were the same thing. Also I wasn't there for any of that, so please continue to try and spare some sympathy for me. :(

[maverixdamighty]

Mav you should really be informed before insulting someone for just being newerish - Xarz is one of the most clutch players we have now, new or not.

after his previous post he seems like an uninformed/troll scrub. i'll stick with my comment.

[quido]

I'm telling you otherwise.

[maverixdamighty]

I'm telling you otherwise.

no offense, but if i told you someone was an A+ player it would mean very little to you either :P

[quido]

not exactly a perfectly symmetrical situation

[maverixdamighty]

not exactly a perfectly symmetrical situation

ok i'm sure he's great at casting rune 5, haste, and tash on mobs. he still comes across as a scrub.

[Bazia]

he seems like a douche

[quido]

ok i'm sure he's great at casting rune 5, haste, and tash on mobs. he still comes across as a scrub.

Mav you really think this qualifies a person as clutch in my book? More like beating FE to pulls as an enchanter.

[Tasslehofp99]

Mav you really think this qualifies a person as clutch in my book? More like beating FE to pulls as an enchanter.

Xarz was a really cool dude prior to apping to tmo, is it even the same guy? Doesn't seem as cool and friendly as he used to be.
Seems like TMO does this to people.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you're defending him jeremiah his last post was very uncalled for. Full circle deserved that inny, grats to them for getting it. Its just a shame TMO shits up the raid scene so much, I mean its like you guys will do anything to keep players here from progressing. I don't even understand why you guys kill anything the forums and ec tunnel are full of TMO members selling dragon and god loot. Obviously you guys don't need most of the loot your getting, after havibg kunark locked down going on 2 yrs now. Just stop being greedy pigs.

[quido]

I didn't even read it and don't give a fuck - I only read the posts of people I'm looking to talk shit to.

Like you Tass, 2 lines maximum.

[Vianna]

your guild is lead by retards and it shows. after the ooa attempt and ninjaing dojorn it's clear that you deserve no sympathy. and you can thank fe for the clusterfuck since their tactic is just train mobs on inny pullers until they have the pull and then FFA the fte

tmo and fe go for inny because they want him. nothing is stopping you from doing the same


I think it is pretty clear to see who the retard is by your post... And it isn't the leadership of our guild. We simply don't aspire to the same style of "raiding" that your guild does. We weren't trying to Ninja anything...But as usual you come off as angry and a bad representation of your guild on these forums. You also come off as arrogant and entitled. Like Plush said I have met some cool people from all guilds including TMO while growing on this server. If you are a representation of your guilds leadership you might want to keep quiet.... You simply make all the assumptions about TMO seem true. I believe several people have tried to point this out to you so far but you continue to just ignorantly post.

[Bazia]

obv the most committed people are the same group as the most desperate for endless amount of loot

you cant be the top guild with an extremely committed core if you aren't satisfying their endless pixel lust

so you cant "give" away free mobs (loot) or that core would either go somewhere else or start their own super poopsock guild

but we already all know this

[Alarti0001]

obv the most committed people are the same group as the most desperate for endless amount of loot

you cant be the top guild with an extremely committed core if you aren't satisfying their endless pixel lust

so you cant "give" away free mobs (loot) or that core would either go somewhere else or start their own super poopsock guild

but we already all know this

pssh we used to give out free loot all the time. Tell me more about what you "know."

[Razdeline]

People actually want to compete for it though, only difference; The people of p99 will not subject to this welfare!

TMO would prefer to keep jacking up the server instead of adding any decent mob rotation. (common practice on live)

[Bazia]

pssh we used to give out free loot all the time. Tell me more about what you "know."

what 1 gore in like a year

a year ago?

that must have hurt the coffers hard

not really sure why the post rustled you considering it's saying that no matter what there's going to be a top guild (regardless of name) that will be the same 50 or so super committed core of pixel freaks that will always be trampling smaller guilds for loot, no reason to specifically blame TMO better to be guilded with pixel core getting loot yourself then be in a diff guild and not

that core is gonna get the loot either way

[Rooj]

Why isn't this forum moderated anymore? Do I need to apply for mod again? If I wanted to read RnF, I'd go there instead.

[Bazia]

i mean u could just look at the title and if you didn't find it interesting you could avoid reading it

[quido]

There's no fine line between RnF and Server Chat!

Similarly there's no fine line between wannabe hall monitors and derpy jackasses.

[Splorf22]

Beating FE to pulls = spamming target nearest mob/clicky? In my experience enchanters don't do much more than buff on most raids with traditional guilds aside from occasionally mezing some shit in hate/fear.

[quido]

No

[Splorf22]

Well in that case I'm sticking with my opinion of xarzzardorn as a douchebag/scrub hybrid, an opinion for which I think there is sufficient evidence in this thread alone.

[quido]

Maybe you should stick to discussing the statistical variance of the fungi king's drops

[Clark]

I didn't even read it and don't give a fuck - I only read the posts of people I'm looking to talk shit to.

Like you Tass, 2 lines maximum.

http://s9.postimg.org/rz8i2wpq7/1slow_children.jpg

[Tasslehofp99]

This thread screams for a server wide alliance/ boycott against TMO. Lets make it happen, <Coalition of the Willing>.

[webrunner5]

it's saying that no matter what there's going to be a top guild (regardless of name) that will be the same 50 or so super committed core of pixel freaks that will always be trampling smaller guilds for loot, no reason to specifically blame TMO better to be guilded with pixel core getting loot yourself then be in a diff guild and not core is gonna get the loot either way

This is the core of the matter or the problem which ever way you want to look at it. TMO could say to hell with it and a new guild named Bill's Buttholes could start tomorrow and in a month they would have the same 50 top people and be top dog and be hated as much as TMO was in a month. It ain't going to change people. :(

[freez]

As long as they're allowed to cheat, exploit, and train it isn't going to mean shit.

They need to be banned for the shit they've already been caught doing. Which is all public knowledge, sadly.

The sheer fact they haven't been banned for everything proves the corruption.

reported for being mad

[Tero Leary]

I used to play a lot on live over ten years ago. I recently found out about this (P99) and have been playing for a couple weeks. After reading the opinions of many about the state of the end game/TMO sucks ass, I think I'll just lay the beast to rest for good.

Thank you P99 for letting me hear my favorite midi songs and reliving some old memories even if it is a shadow of its former self. Well, time to go suicide in Freeport Bank four dozen times.

[Tiggles]

This thread screams for a server wide alliance/ boycott against TMO. Lets make it happen, <Coalition of the Willing>.

[stonez138]

Secondly, our motivation isn't to keep you from getting loot (as much as you fantasize that it is) Most mobs drop some epic pieces commonly and other rarely. Its those rare ones we need. Or just rare items off those bosses in general.

Sorry, but nobody is buying your bullshit. It's painfully obvious to the vast majority of everyone in every other guild that TMO lives to cockblock. Period.

[stonez138]

your guild is lead by retards and it shows. after the ooa attempt and ninjaing dojorn it's clear that you deserve no sympathy. and you can thank fe for the clusterfuck since their tactic is just train mobs on inny pullers until they have the pull and then FFA the fte

tmo and fe go for inny because they want him. nothing is stopping you from doing the same

Prime example of the asshole mentality that is TMO!

[SCB]

I used to play a lot on live over ten years ago. I recently found out about this (P99) and have been playing for a couple weeks. After reading the opinions of many about the state of the end game/TMO sucks ass, I think I'll just lay the beast to rest for good.

Thank you P99 for letting me hear my favorite midi songs and reliving some old memories even if it is a shadow of its former self. Well, time to go suicide in Freeport Bank four dozen times.

GJ on driving away new people, you bunch of super-nerds. Dress up all pretty as you do fuck-all else with the gear you have on your 14 characters. Just know - having the best gear on this server is like being the smartest person with down syndrome. You're not some revolutionary blazing a trail of skill and dead boss corpses, you're living in the past same as us, just being more of a douchebag about it. Better deny people fun experiences so you can circle-jerk your about how leet zerging down 12 year-old content is while talking about how "skilled" you are, amirite?

The worst thing is, the only response you'd ever come up with to my post is the same "lol work as hard as us" fucking bullshit you've been feeding this server for years. The biggest nerds get the best pixels, we fucking get it, but seriously, grow up. You're driving away the only resource this server really does need - players.

[kaleran]

GJ on driving away new people, you bunch of super-nerds. Dress up all pretty as you do fuck-all else with the gear you have on your 14 characters. Just know - having the best gear on this server is like being the smartest person with down syndrome. You're not some revolutionary blazing a trail of skill and dead boss corpses, you're living in the past same as us, just being more of a douchebag about it. Better deny people fun experiences so you can circle-jerk your about how leet zerging down 12 year-old content is while talking about how "skilled" you are, amirite?

The worst thing is, the only response you'd ever come up with to my post is the same "lol work as hard as us" fucking bullshit you've been feeding this server for years. The biggest nerds get the best pixels, we fucking get it, but seriously, grow up. You're driving away the only resource this server really does need - players.

And for anyone who's about to comment "But we have over 700 people on lol cry more", remember that a lot of the people are new players who haven't sniffed the end game yet. Don't run those people off...

[Tasslehofp99]

And for anyone who's about to comment "But we have over 700 people on lol cry more", remember that a lot of the people are new players who haven't sniffed the end game yet. Don't run those people off...

They don't work hard for it.

They cheat.

They train.

They exploit.

They send members to go fuck lonely corrupt GMs for special treatment.

They're a joke.

Great posts, apparently the feelings for TMO are a lot more widespread than I even thought. We really need to organize the good folks of p99 against them, [Coalition of the Willing] anyone?

[porigromus]

Let's fix p99's raid scene. Remove all nice loot from the raid bosses and name mobs and make it all super rare and able to drop off any mob 40+ mob. There you go, now assholes will quit camping shit.

Raid mobs now drop rat meat ... whatever!

[webrunner5]

This thread is becoming funny as hell. IF you want good shit join TMO or FE. Pretty simple. Tell me anytime in the 14 year history of this game that any of the top 10 guilds has EVER been able to loot top end shit day after day. Yeah right. It has ALWAYS been just 2 or 3 guilds that have the good shit, not some causal guild that billybob runs maybe 2 times a month. Get real.

So quit crying like a bunch of girls. Jesus Christ. Suck it up or quit playing here. :mad::mad: If you think your Wife, Girlfriend, Mother is going to put up with your shit of tracking all night or getting Batphoned at two o'clock in the morning and being up till 5 Am every other day and then have to go to work or school than have at it. And that is what it takes to be in a top dog guild. I know I don't want that shit anymore. And I would bet 90% of the people pissing and moaning on here don't either. Been there and done that crap for years on Torvo as a top Cleric.

[Faulken]

Phew so glad I don't/won't ever have time to raid like I used to @_@

[heartbrand]

How to experience end game content without poop socking against TMO.

step one: roll on red with your friends
step two: there you go

[skipdog]

This is exactly what I am saying and I think it's actually quite reasonable. Tracking is such a pointless waste of time that even if it were classic there would be pretty good grounds for removing it. But again, for the 1 millionth time: variance is not classic. Everyone who is defending variance (and this somehow, strangely, is all the players in the batphone guilds) is doing so purely out of self interest. We have a server where the compass is disabled as being not classic, but huge changes to the raid scene are allowed. That is the only relevant point.

I defended variance because the competition of mobilization is a lot more engaging than the competition of winning a FTE lottery and never having a real fight with a raid mob.

I also defend variance because variance has been in place here for quite some time and I don't think any reasonable person can expect variance to be removed, when so many people have dedicated so many hours of their lives to this server, where these rules have already been declared. To change variance, would be like changing any other core 'rule' on this server when you already have so many people who have poured hundreds of hours into this game knowing that those are the rules.

The only reason smaller guilds want variance removed, is so they can get the CHANCE to get loot that they normally wouldn't want to put any work towards. Sorry but that is the only reason. It isn't to "relive old memories" or "experience an epic Trak fight". I was in BDA and when the extended window change came out and I've never seen a group of grown men cry over not being able to do a trak poopsock "on the rare occasion when Chest demands it in Vent... loudly". It's not like they were even wanting to FIGHT the raid monster like so many people here are claiming they want to do, they just wanted to poopsock at the end of the window and engage in the FTE lottery for a CHANCE to get loot.

I'll just repeat this again: There are other emu servers where you can go kill all these old monsters all you want. Anybody is free to play on these servers.

I just can't believe how much whining and crying is going on ITT. It all boils down to grown men screaming "TMO ruins this server because they put in the work to get the best and most valuable loot in the game and we want them stopped or want to engage in epic 200 person poopsock FTE lottery games!!!"

All of you complaining about how you shouldn't have to track, or have alts parked, should've left this server long before getting 60 and realizing you wanted to get certain pieces of loot but aren't willing to put in the effort.

[pharmakos]

All of you complaining about how you shouldn't have to track, or have alts parked, should've left this server long before getting 60 and realizing you wanted to get certain pieces of loot but aren't willing to put in the effort.

unfortunately, those aspects of the end game aren't blatantly obvious to newbies, unless they enjoy reading through 60 page long rant threads.

maybe there should just be a sticky post that explains clearly what the end game is currently like here ;)

[Clark]

this thread will never die? ;p

[kaleran]

All of you complaining about how you shouldn't have to track, or have alts parked, should've left this server long before getting 60 and realizing you wanted to get certain pieces of loot but aren't willing to put in the effort.

You mean people who put in 100+ hours leveling, questing, and gearing up shouldn't get the right to get a shot at their epics because there are ~120 people on this server that have been ehre so long that they've bought a ton of alts to ninja every spawn?

FOR SHAME ON THOSE PEOPLE FOR NOT FINDING THIS SERVER 4 YEARS AGO!!!

[pharmakos]

variance or not, its still six of one or a half dozen of the other

if there was no variance then some guild would keep all the raid mob timers locked onto off-peak hours

[feanan]

I watched TMO "mobilize" for trak yesterday.

I was at zone in. There were like 5 people in zone. I saw ONE tmo zone in. Next thing you know, there were 40 TMO in zone.

So, yeah, I guess if camping out characters at the contested spawns and logging them in is your idea of "racing" or "mobilizing"

How fucking fun.

I mean, how much "raiding" does TMO do in a week? One min to log on, 3 mins to kill, 1 min to rebuff and log. So, for all stuff they kill, they probably raid an hour a week.

[baramur]

Someone has to fund the server. TMO probably donates a portion of their RMT money to the server to help fund it. Lets just look at the facts, The GM's have consistantly ensured that TMO will have advantages in raiding. TMO uses known exploits for over a year in vp, when FE starts using same tactic, the GM's instantly make the tactic bannable. TMO trains multiple times, fraps are made, GM's only suspend the player, FE is caught on fraps training, under NEW GM policy, whole guild is banned from raiding trak for 1 raid. The GM's have repeatedly made changes to policy to benefit tmo, after tmo has abused the said policy for ages. Sorry but it is not just TMO fault, but dont be nieve if you believe TMO kills end raid mobs just to sell items in EC tunnel to add to their guildbank. What guildbank needs over 200million plat. Project 99 is the best money maker free emulator invented, and you are all employees. Now all this being said, i still enjoy my time playing, infact i still love playing, but i am able to accept p99 for what it is.
TMO server, where they will always have unfair advantages. After 2 years TMO farms kunark to fund their wallets, you want to fix end content, make boss mob loot no-drop, make selling charecters bannable, make selling end game loot bannable. Take out mq of epics. Ban TMO from everything outside vp until velious. If content becomes stagnent to FE, at that time ban them from everything outside VP. Make the server raid scene viable again.

[Lyra]

I watched TMO "mobilize" for trak yesterday.

I was at zone in. There were like 5 people in zone. I saw ONE tmo zone in. Next thing you know, there were 40 TMO in zone.

So, yeah, I guess if camping out characters at the contested spawns and logging them in is your idea of "racing" or "mobilizing"

How fucking fun.

I mean, how much "raiding" does TMO do in a week? One min to log on, 3 mins to kill, 1 min to rebuff and log. So, for all stuff they kill, they probably raid an hour a week.

Right.

So what is the motivation? Can it really be the hope of dominating Velious?

I find myself asking this repeatedly.

[Lyra]

Someone has to fund the server. TMO probably donates a portion of their RMT money to the server to help fund it. Lets just look at the facts, The GM's have consistantly ensured that TMO will have advantages in raiding. TMO uses known exploits for over a year in vp, when FE starts using same tactic, the GM's instantly make the tactic bannable. TMO trains multiple times, fraps are made, GM's only suspend the player, FE is caught on fraps training, under NEW GM policy, whole guild is banned from raiding trak for 1 raid. The GM's have repeatedly made changes to policy to benefit tmo, after tmo has abused the said policy for ages. Sorry but it is not just TMO fault, but dont be nieve if you believe TMO kills end raid mobs just to sell items in EC tunnel to add to their guildbank. What guildbank needs over 200million plat. Project 99 is the best money maker free emulator invented, and you are all employees. Now all this being said, i still enjoy my time playing, infact i still love playing, but i am able to accept p99 for what it is.
TMO server, where they will always have unfair advantages. After 2 years TMO farms kunark to fund their wallets, you want to fix end content, make boss mob loot no-drop, make selling charecters bannable, make selling end game loot bannable. Take out mq of epics. Ban TMO from everything outside vp until velious. If content becomes stagnent to FE, at that time ban them from everything outside VP. Make the server raid scene viable again.

Whoop there it is!

[Splorf22]

Meh I just don't see the evidence that TMO gets all this GM favoritism. Your guy had a blatant train of Trakanon; I saw the fraps. I do agree that we need to ban account sales. I think for starters the staff simply forbidding it would be huge.

[maverixdamighty]

Meh I just don't see the evidence that TMO gets all this GM favoritism. Your guy had a blatant train of Trakanon; I saw the fraps. I do agree that we need to ban account sales. I think for starters the staff simply forbidding it would be huge.

for every one fraps of ours involving training/cheating etc. there are probably five of them doing it. Regardless it's wrong either way.

[kaleran]

Removing variance won't help that much. All those alts that are camped out now at each spawn for all these raid mobs? Yeah, they'll be logged in. Only now you'll have to compete with 100 members since they know *exactly* when they pop. It'll be an AE spam fest to get FTE, just like it was pre-variance. Unless TMO wants to allow a rotation. (And yes, TMO would have to be the one allowing the rotation. The GM's already stated that any solution will have to be player-enforced, so as the top dogs we either have to kick TMO's ass or hope they let us play in their sandbox).

Weekly repops help since the forces have to be spread out amongst multiple targets. Doesn't help the smaller guilds get a shot at Trak/Inny/CT though. The larger guilds will just train and kite the adds to the bosses, since they're always top of the target order.

[maverixdamighty]

Removing variance won't help that much. All those alts that are camped out now at each spawn for all these raid mobs? Yeah, they'll be logged in. Only now you'll have to compete with 100 members since they know *exactly* when they pop. It'll be an AE spam fest to get FTE, just like it was pre-variance. Unless TMO wants to allow a rotation. (And yes, TMO would have to be the one allowing the rotation. The GM's already stated that any solution will have to be player-enforced, so as the top dogs we either have to kick TMO's ass or hope they let us play in their sandbox).

Weekly repops help since the forces have to be spread out amongst multiple targets. Doesn't help the smaller guilds get a shot at Trak/Inny/CT though. The larger guilds will just train and kite the adds to the bosses, since they're always top of the target order.

this point has been brought up by myself and countless others, but people still insist removing variance will fix the raid scene here. Removing variance is only classic if the content/progression is classic. At no point on live were there this many level 60's and the amount of gear we have here when kunark was the prime raiding continent, period.

To get more in line with classic, variance has to be removed in conjunction with more content becoming available and even then we still have more of an advantage over what we had on live.

[webrunner5]

Removing variance won't help that much. All those alts that are camped out now at each spawn for all these raid mobs? Yeah, they'll be logged in. Only now you'll have to compete with 100 members since they know *exactly* when they pop. It'll be an AE spam fest to get FTE, just like it was pre-variance. Unless TMO wants to allow a rotation. (And yes, TMO would have to be the one allowing the rotation. The GM's already stated that any solution will have to be player-enforced, so as the top dogs we either have to kick TMO's ass or hope they let us play in their sandbox).

Weekly repops help since the forces have to be spread out amongst multiple targets. Doesn't help the smaller guilds get a shot at Trak/Inny/CT though. The larger guilds will just train and kite the adds to the bosses, since they're always top of the target order.

What he said. Sorry there is no good solution no matter what happens. Even if TMO quits, FE takes their place, then BDA, etc. :(

[pharmakos]

variance or not, its still six of one or a half dozen of the other

if there was no variance then some guild would keep all the raid mob timers locked onto off-peak hours

Hours, schmours. There'd be at least one server repop at random-or-strategic times each month. And fair is fair.

repops could exist along side variance, the two aren't mutually exclusive

[Lyra]

I don't care if removing variance helps or not. This variance is not classic. With the attempt to make everything else classic, the variance is a big fail.

[Cecily]

I watched TMO "mobilize" for trak yesterday.

I was at zone in. There were like 5 people in zone. I saw ONE tmo zone in. Next thing you know, there were 40 TMO in zone.

So, yeah, I guess if camping out characters at the contested spawns and logging them in is your idea of "racing" or "mobilizing"

How fucking fun.

I mean, how much "raiding" does TMO do in a week? One min to log on, 3 mins to kill, 1 min to rebuff and log. So, for all stuff they kill, they probably raid an hour a week.

What's really funny is that FE was raid suspended for this Trak. That was us taking our time.

[Lyra]

What's really funny is that FE was raid suspended for this Trak. That was us taking our time.

FE was raid suspended? I don't keep up.

If that was the case, why wasn't TMO offering raid mobs to the other guilds?

Let me go find a quote. Be back shortly.

[Lyra]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102284&highlight=Variance

TMO leadership would be and already is 100% fine if guilds want to contact us ahead of time and say they want to go after an outdoor dragon.

Not saying you have to ask for permission just let's us know not to track it or bat phone it.

Problem is and I don't mean this as offense divinity and other more casual guilds can not effectively compete with FE.

Not to be a slam against FE but they have a lot of new hungry members who need gear from these mobs and will race you 100% on every one.

This puts TMO in a situation where we are just allowing our direct competition access to upgrades and plat sales that we don't want them to have access too.

TMO has a bad rap and a lot of it is deserving but and I can say this truly that if a guild is not antognistic towards us we will be beneficent towards them.

The problem is again FE VDA IB TR there all the same group of core members floating from guild to guild so it makes us look like we are picking on smaller guild.

We currently let some members if taken raid VP with us and I 100% know if divinity needed help on a mob lots of us would lend a hand.

Anyways look up our endangered species program and if you can get FE to agree to not attempt a mob I'm sure TMO will do the same.

Maybe not trak or CT~

Also if you want Inny I want to roll on a mage staff for my alt ~~~~


This would have been a really good week to repair guild / server relations.

You need a new PR rep.

[pharmakos]

Neither are repops and the removal (reduction) of Variance which is the solution that Nilbog and Rogean made that has been quoted numerous times that is pretty much the basis of this entire thread.

I'm aware. I just think that adding repops and leaving variance might actually be the better solution. That way everyone can have their cake and eat it too.

[fohkure]

hey dude... plan on raiding!

[kotton05]

FE was raid suspended? I don't keep up.

If that was the case, why wasn't TMO offering raid mobs to the other guilds?

Let me go find a quote. Be back shortly.

I told other guilds trak was up.. when said guild bphoned... tmo logged in to kill.

[maverixdamighty]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102284&highlight=Variance




This would have been a really good week to repair guild / server relations.

You need a new PR rep.

we were just suspended for 1 trakanon, which in the post you quoted was one of the mobs they said would not be available. just saying.

[xarzzardorn]

tmo isn't giving mobs to divinity for the same reason you're not PLing newbies in mistmoore every day merkk

[kotton05]

tmo isn't giving mobs to divinity for the same reason you're not PLing newbies in mistmoore every day merkk

I don't follow? would of been a good thing to make it FFA for that spawn

[xarzzardorn]

I don't follow? would of been a good thing to make it FFA for that spawn

???

[arsenalpow]

What he said. Sorry there is no good solution no matter what happens. Even if TMO quits, FE takes their place, then BDA, etc. :(

When TMO was suspended we (BDA) showed that this server could be a better place, too bad it was only for a week or something.

[nambar]

Now imagine if the rules were ACTUALLY enforced and they were banned permanently like they should be.

But, nope. No legitimacy here.

They have no problem banning someone speaking truth to power like you from the forums, but can't ban a single TMO abuser.

[falkun]

When TMO was suspended we (BDA) showed that this server could be a better place, too bad it was only for a week or something.

T'was two weeks.

Project 1999,

We are all well aware of what raiding on this server is like. BDA started and has progressed as a casual raiding guild. We have been fortunate to have progressed as far as we have, and plan to continue doing so with this great group of friends we have built. We also know what it is like to be a casual guild on a server perpetually dominated by a few guilds at the very top. We hope that other guilds on P99 can continue to progress to higher content as well.

BDA does not believe in any way that we own rights to any raid mobs, but we are aware that we have a larger active raid force right now than most. We also want to see a new leaf turned for P99. As such, we are making the following decisions open and public. While we hope and expect that other guilds will be competing with us for all raid targets, we want to ensure that the raid content is spread across the server.

The following raid targets will be left alone by BDA indefinitely:

Nagafen
Vox
Dracoliche (standalone spawns)
Alternate Maestros (2nd, 4th, etc)
Noble Dojorn
Talendor
Second Faydedar
Second Severilous

The following raid targets will be left up for at least two hours after spawning for any other guilds to attempt. After that BDA will host an open joint raid with any guilds that wish to attend. The loot will be rolled on by all present raiders who can use the gear that dropps:

Second Trakanon (and Fourth pending spawn) (excluding teeth and guts)
Second Venril Sathir (Excluding Dru/Rng/Wiz epic items)
Second Innorruuk
Second Gorenaire

Again, BDA makes no claims of possession over any other raid target. We just hope that in the future more cooperation can be seen across the entire spectrum of guilds on Project 1999.

See you in game!

[Famous]

but in the raiding scene there is no where else to move to after being 2 and a half years overdue for velious.

Yes there is, onto another game or something else. =)

[EchoedTruth]

I am just making an observation. I just play my lvl 30 enchanter, and I'm fairly decent, and people of course talk about the game as we play.

Not a single person has told me to plan on raiding, or to look forward to it, or to even bother. They have, in fact, told me above all get it out of my head this server is worth anything once you are done just adventuring and doing some exp'ing.

Not a single person. I am assuming some of the people I have played with are alts in the end game, too.

Just an observation. Word of mouth is all bad. Call them haters, call them losers, but I'm actually speaking to the GM's: that is your idea of a server that is going to thrive? One with a reputation of having a completely botched end game?

Because at a certain point, it is not "whining" -- it becomes fact.

Not a single person.


color me crazy here, but you don't post/act like you've only played a char to 30 here... that being said - whoever told you that is barely half-right. You can raid anything up till CT / Inny / Trak / VP ... those are usually taken by TMO upon spawning. So there it is.

[webrunner5]

color me crazy here, but you don't post/act like you've only played a char to 30 here... that being said - whoever told you that is barely half-right. You can raid anything up till CT / Inny / Trak / VP ... those are usually taken by TMO upon spawning. So there it is.

Good point Echo.

[Droog007]

...in the raiding scene there is no where else to move to after being 2 and a half years overdue for velious, so we try to keep entertained with what we currently have to raid which is pretty limited considering the amount of level 60's on two and a half years of stagnant content

Yes there is, onto another game or something else. =)

Owned. In other words: It's a great big world out there... take a break. Other kids want a ride, too...

/thread

[August]

color me crazy here, but you don't post/act like you've only played a char to 30 here... that being said - whoever told you that is barely half-right. You can raid anything up till CT / Inny / Trak / VP ... those are usually taken by TMO upon spawning. So there it is.

I can actually guarantee you that Sadre has only played a char to 30 here. As his former arch-nemesis, he is indeed a bundle of crazy.

I am also one of the people who told him that raiding wasn't worth it. We both came from Fippy progression server where raiding was shit and I likened it to be very similar - large tracking projects, poopsocking, 2-3 guilds whining at each other about FTE and lots of rampant cheating. I personally haven't witnessed any of it because I've refused to take part in any of it.

I joined a raiding guild @ 56 w/ the explicit guidelines that I wasn't going to wait at a spawn point. When I was told to go log my character at trak ledge and play an alt until he popped i realized that's just another form of it, so I took a 3 month hiatus in disgust. Back now, leveling up with my wife just trying to have fun. The response in this thread is proof positive that there is a sickness @ the top end of this server.

[webrunner5]

I joined a raiding guild @ 56 w/ the explicit guidelines that I wasn't going to wait at a spawn point. When I was told to go log my character at trak ledge and play an alt until he popped i realized that's just another form of it, so I took a 3 month hiatus in disgust. Back now, leveling up with my wife just trying to have fun. The response in this thread is proof positive that there is a sickness @ the top end of this server.

Please pray tell, tell us all about ANY past or present EQ Game or ANY server that is not the same. I dare you, double dare you.

[August]

Please pray tell, tell us all about ANY past or present EQ Game or ANY server that is not the same. I dare you, double dare you.

Did i claim that such a server existed? I said the raiding was crap. Am I wrong?

[webrunner5]

Did i claim that such a server existed? I said the raiding was crap. Am I wrong?

You are not wrong. I am just saying it is no different here than has ever been anywhere lol. Why do so many people have their pantyhose in a knot about it is beyond me. :eek::eek: It AIN'T going to change. It CAN'T.

[Famous]

You are not wrong. I am just saying it is no different here than has ever been anywhere lol. Why do so many people have their pantyhose in a knot about it is beyond me. :eek::eek: It AIN'T going to change. It CAN'T.

But why the rightous apathy? IMO its better to at least talk about than it is to sit around and go "ohh well thats the way it is" (eeyore voice).

[Genedin]

so, back in the days of 1999-2000ish the everquest server Tarrew-Marr was not really like that. people pretty much shared to be nice.

[webrunner5]

As far as I know, there is no other EQ server in existence in which Variance is the game mechanic for raid targets. That creates about 10 unique problems to this server alone.

And the Devs have said over and over they are NOT going to touch it with a 10' pole. So unless TMO and FE just all give up and moves to the Sleeper Server guess what?? :rolleyes: I am not in anyway happy with this crap either. But I gave up long time ago ever getting my Driuid Epic or any Uber as hell gear on this server.

This server is almost 4 years old now. What has changed on the raid scene? Nothing. Just a few different guild names but pretty much the same old shit. And when Velious ever comes out it will be just as bad there also. We will have 1,200 people or more on. And guess what, a hell of a lot of them will be all level 60's. And a LOT of them will be in TMO. Good luck even getting into Kael, FToS etc. So nothing has happened in 4 years and you think a Thread with 65 pages is going to change anything after this long. I have some Waterfront prop I will sell you in Nevada.

[fuark]

so, back in the days of 1999-2000ish the everquest server Tarrew-Marr was not really like that. people pretty much shared to be nice.

Having raided end game tarew marr, i can confirm.

End game on p99 has never been close to the same end game that I experienced from 1999-2002.

[LiQuid]

Same on Prexus. I was able to complete my ranger epic while a part of a casual guild thanks to a raid alliance with another casual guild and with one of the "top" guilds on the server who was nice enough to let me tag along on Inny and VS kills. What are the chances of that happening on p99? :)

[arsenalpow]

Same on Prexus. I was able to complete my ranger epic while a part of a casual guild thanks to a raid alliance with another casual guild and with one of the "top" guilds on the server who was nice enough to let me tag along on Inny and VS kills. What are the chances of that happening on p99? :)

Very high if you pay a fee of platinum.

[webrunner5]

Having raided end game tarew marr, i can confirm.

End game on p99 has never been close to the same end game that I experienced from 1999-2002.

Yeah and guess what. By 2002 The Planes of Power was out. 4 expansions. We are 2 1/2 years behind on Velious. We are ONLY on the first expansion. :eek: And 1999 to 2002 is 3 years. We are going on 4 years here now. Yah think maybe there is a problem here? And hardly anyone knew shit from apple butter about EQ or the tricks we know now.

[Tenlaar]

I find your assertion that the mere fact of still being in Kunark somehow makes selfishness, vindictiveness, and general douchebaggery somehow acceptable absurd.

[Thulack]

You are not wrong. I am just saying it is no different here than has ever been anywhere lol. Why do so many people have their pantyhose in a knot about it is beyond me. :eek::eek: It AIN'T going to change. It CAN'T.

There were plenty of servers that had a civil rotation for Kunark bosses and even planes. Not sure why you are trying to state that is never happened anywhere. Brell Serilis was a prime example.

[Danth]

It can change, but it isn't going to for the reason Webrunner noted in an earlier post: Change would require direct intervention from the folks running the server and they've made it abundantly clear they have no inclination to do so.

Kunark being out for a long time doesn't make poor behavior okay. Nothing makes poor behavior okay. However, whether it's okay or not is moot. Everquest's basic structure makes the game extremely vulnerable to such behavior. Welcome to why newer games tend not to even bother and simply instance important content.


Danth

[pharmakos]

We have found LITERALLY EVERY SINGLE ARGUMENT AGAINST THE REMOVAL OF VARIANCE TO BE ABSURD.

removing variance means 250man poopsocking fte-fests and guilds locking timers down to off-peak hours in order to combat that.

six of one or a half dozen of the other imo, they both stink

[falkun]

six of one or a half dozen of the other imo, they both stink

One of those half dozen is classic.
If you are going to have FTE reign supreme (which it does on this server), might as well let it reign supreme without caveats.
The belief is that guilds will get as tired of fighting for FTE as most guilds are now of tracking.
You won't have to worry about kiting raid mobs because everything will be engaged on spawn point.
Wipes will allow the fastest CR (most raid skill) to reign supreme (excluding currently used shady stall tactics which would still be possible).

[maverixdamighty]

One of those half dozen is classic.
If you are going to have FTE reign supreme (which it does on this server), might as well let it reign supreme without caveats.
The belief is that guilds will get as tired of fighting for FTE as most guilds are now of tracking.
You won't have to worry about kiting raid mobs because everything will be engaged on spawn point.
Wipes will allow the fastest CR (most raid skill) to reign supreme (excluding currently used shady stall tactics which would still be possible).

again just the removal of variance will not lead to a classic experience due to limited content. kunark was not meant to have 400 level 60's with all their epics, best in slots, etc. I'm all for variance being removed but think it should coincide with the release of velious.

[Splorf22]

What you guys should all be clamoring for is a NEW PROGRAMMER. I like Rogean and Kanras but they have simply lost interest in P1999 (perhaps for now).

[falkun]

again just the removal of variance will not lead to a classic experience due to limited content. kunark was not meant to have 400 level 60's with all their epics, best in slots, etc. I'm all for variance being removed but think it should coincide with the release of velious.

Lets get one thing straight, the Gaming Experience from 1999 cannot be recreated. Maps, the understanding of game mechanics, spell descriptions, quest guides....all of it is posted on the internet. The feeling of new and unknown, of being a neophite "In Their World Now" is gone, and you can't get it back. What you can do is, as much as possible, provide a server "with the look and feel of the old interface and several modifications making game mechanics similar to how the game used to be."

If you wanted to have players have the "new, unknown world" experience with P99, why not make Kunark dragons have over 32khps and encounters with additional raid mechanics beyond "tank+spank" (ok, so some have "stack resists to avoid AE")? Setting raid mechanics to those of 10 years ago means the strategies are already published, the locations are published, the rewards are published. Mav, you are picking a line for classic vs. non-classic because it benefits you. From a non-biased standpoint, seeing classic mechanics (mob levels, items, ATK and AC formulae) until you get to multi-group content seems rather counter intuitive to what was experienced for the previous 45 levels. You can have a classic experience or classic mechanics, but assuming you've played EverQuest before, you'll never be a neophite in their world again.

[Splorf22]

100% agree with Deajay. Unlike Zephany I don't think the removal of variance will immediately lead to the promised land. 500 people on the spawn point "competing" for FTE is just as retarded as the way TMO/FE "compete" with tracking. However, the new no-variance game has 3 huge advantages: its fair, there is no tracking, and and above all it's classic.

[falkun]

And yet, why would there be 500? If so many are on Trakanon, what is to stop the rest of the raid population from taking VS, Innoruuk, CT, Maestro at the exact same time? Why give yourself a 20% chance on Trak when you could have a 80-100% chance somewhere else? I feel as if it's very easy to think through the consequences of No Variance + Repops paradigm, but few have actually done so.

Repops have already been done, the results are tried and true. The only thing that could alter the results of a respawn is if the respawn was KNOWN, instead of <15min warning, as its been done in the past. However, assuming targets are spread out enough that only one will spawn at a time, every guild who wishes to compete would be fighting for FTE at the same time because timers would be known. Now you'll have some guilds that compete for some mobs and not others, and if you have multiple spawns you'll see the guilds either split into two raids or prioritize one target over the other. You bring nothing new to the table with your repop idea, to the contrary of your final comment.

[falkun]

I said spawn times would be known, where do I say unknown?

No variance and repops are two seperate entities, unless you are discussing staggered respawns which has also been discussed ad nauseum.

No variance is discussed in this thread. Repops have gone 80+% TMO, 15-25% FE, 5-10% everyone else for the last 4 or 5. Part of these results are due to the minimal foreknowledge about the respawn, so TMO and FE with their higher body count and superior mobilization batphone and respond the fastest. If respawns were more widely known, the guilds with lesser mobilization skills could prepare better, but then you enter the realm of theory where TMO/FE would have similar time to also prepare better and that might keep the status quo.

You've still not brought anything new to the argument, even going as far as admitting this was discussed "months ago".

[falkun]

Now please answer my question and tell me why there would be 500 people on one raid boss when they're basically all spawning at the same time, every time? If there are, under that scenario, it's because the mob's loot is commensurately greater and to be expected.

As for this comment that alludes to every spawn being part of a full respawn, I don't think the community has consensus on that. My opinion of community push is towards respawns every 2 weeks or once per month, with the spawns in between on a non-variance or largely reduced variance timer.

Large sources of dissent from that opinion come from TMO and FE. A notable example is Jeremy who advocates that every mob should be coded to spawn X amount of times per year, with no definite start and stop to the window other than "a 7-day mob should spawn 52x per year".

Everyone agrees FTE shouts (basic, not some ellaborate "First with Sufficient Force" shouts) should be implemented.

[falkun]

Falkun, I really have enjoyed your posts in this topic to this point but you don't seem to be able to grasp this extraordinarily simple point:

If there is No Variance, and if there are Repops, then basically every raid mob will pop at what is practically the same time over a course of weeks and months. How are the enormous Tracking guilds to compete with this on an hour-for-hour basis?

No Variance and Repops are what is Classic. There is absolutely no gainsaying that. Additionally, it would free numerous raid mobs for engagement by "other" raid forces than TMO and FE, something that is imminently desirable for P99.

What exactly is your objection to this model?

Not every raid mob on a respawn would be killed at exactly the same time, therefore as long as every spawn cycle is not a full repop, mob timers will diverge to a degree large enough that multiple forces will be able to contest every spawn until the next repop realigns all spawns onto the exact same timer. Even a timer of a few minutes apart would allow a sharp raid-force to mobilize to the second (or third, etc.) in adequate time.

[falkun]

Over the last 3 repops (the ones that happened a few weeks apart from each other), the tracking guilds averaged every mob except Faydedar, the L52s (Naggy, Vox, or both), Maestro, Yael, and Overseer of Air. Divinity did some good work and got Talendar on the last repop. That's 3-5 out of the 20ish that the tracking guilds do not get. While getting 3-5 per respawn is more than the non-tracking guilds typically get in a given week, it is not a "significant" portion of the raid content by any means. Also, raid targets still do not die at exactly the same time, so even without variance the next respawn will be more spread out than the repop assuming the next spawn is itself not a repop.

No variance raids with every target spawning at the same time will go as they do now without warning, or the non-tracking guilds will each get 1 target or less before they are out-mobilized to the second target by guilds with better mobilization.

No variance raids with targets spread out enough that everyone has time to mobilize will have all interested guilds sitting on spawn spamming temperate flux staves with the duct tape until spawn and trying for FTE. This shit-stain will stay until people get tired of it and either stop competing or move to a rotation system.

The best thing to help the repop scene would be making VP a non-train zone. Right now it is advantageous for the VP guilds to kill non-VP targets first and then duke it out in VP. If you were not allowed to train in VP, you'd see people fighting for FTE on PD before they ran to kill Trak lest their competition snipe PD while they are uncontested at Trak.

[maverixdamighty]

Lets get one thing straight, the Gaming Experience from 1999 cannot be recreated. Maps, the understanding of game mechanics, spell descriptions, quest guides....all of it is posted on the internet. The feeling of new and unknown, of being a neophite "In Their World Now" is gone, and you can't get it back. What you can do is, as much as possible, provide a server "with the look and feel of the old interface and several modifications making game mechanics similar to how the game used to be."

If you wanted to have players have the "new, unknown world" experience with P99, why not make Kunark dragons have over 32khps and encounters with additional raid mechanics beyond "tank+spank" (ok, so some have "stack resists to avoid AE")? Setting raid mechanics to those of 10 years ago means the strategies are already published, the locations are published, the rewards are published. Mav, you are picking a line for classic vs. non-classic because it benefits you. From a non-biased standpoint, seeing classic mechanics (mob levels, items, ATK and AC formulae) until you get to multi-group content seems rather counter intuitive to what was experienced for the previous 45 levels. You can have a classic experience or classic mechanics, but assuming you've played EverQuest before, you'll never be a neophite in their world again.

it doesn't benefit me at all. having to spend time tracking isn't a benefit it's a detriment, but if you think having 200 people sitting on a mob fighting them is fun more power to you.

if you noticed i said remove variance when velious is released, which is more in line with a classic experience then forcing people to fight FTE battles for all the major bosses, which is just plain retarded.

[maverixdamighty]

The evidence that you yourself have reported in this very post is contradictory to this statement. "While getting 3-5 per respawn is more than the non-tracking guilds typically get in a given week," and does not even consider the consequences of continuing such a fair policy.


Classic, and less of a shit-stain than Jeremy and co. winning practically everything due to an in all ways retarded mechanic that never existed in EverQuest and should not exist on P99.

There is absolutely no reason for Variance to exist on P99 and any arguments in its favor are absurd.

pretty sure you have made your stance abundantly clear over the 60 some pages of this thread, but the majority of us more informed players on this server disagree with your stance. Keep up the crusade!

[maverixdamighty]

You are a fucking liar.

Tracking is an enormous benefit to you and TMO, according to every piece of evidence assembled on the topic. It never was an issue before P99, though, which may be why some of your guilty conscience is apparently coming back to haunt you.

this isn't the rants section. like everyone has pointed out even without tracking on server repops we get the next highest amount of mobs outside TMO. guilty conscious? Lol i obviousy was a lot more successful in terms of end game raiding on live and p99 than you have been. you have no idea what you are talking about and your ignorance is the closest thing to classic you have shown.

[maverixdamighty]

I have yet to hear a single non-absurd argument for the continuation of Variance on this server. Please feel free to contribute.

please feel free to start your own thread for no one to agree with you.

[maverixdamighty]

Still waiting, dude. lol

no point in posting anything you have the reading comprehension of a toddler and about the equivalent understanding of everquest raiding. leave this discussion to people who know what they are talking about.

anyone pushing blindly for a raid scene that includes FTE fighting for all boss mobs and sitting on spawns just moments prior to their spawning clearly doesn't really want a classic experience or one close to it.

[maverixdamighty]

Didn't think so. Let us know when you're ready to contribute!

let me know when one person has agreed with you.

[August]

This is better served by moving to RnF - can someone do that please. It's just people yelling at each other now over their version of classic.

[maverixdamighty]

I think that the only people that do not agree with the tenet that "Variance is shit" are in TMO or are substantially tiny in comparison to those that agree with it.

variance is crap, but your proposal to just remove it completely also leads to a crap raid scene that actually will require much less skill to get end game mobs.

kunark was not designed to have this many capped characters with epics, dragon haste, vp gear, etc etc etc, PERIOD.

[Splorf22]

much less skill

Depends if you consider tracking a skill =D


kunark was not designed to have this many capped characters with epics, dragon haste, vp gear, etc etc etc, PERIOD.

100% agree, but I'd rather take a stab at it than wait for velious.

And yes I think this thread needs to be moved to RNF

[maverixdamighty]

LMFAO AT YOU

you are right. it takes the same amount of skill/coordination for 20ish people to kill a raid target as 200 ppl fighting a FTE battle sitting on top of the mob.

again confirmed clueless about anything everquest...

[maverixdamighty]

Depends if you consider tracking a skill =D



100% agree, but I'd rather take a stab at it than wait for velious.

And yes I think this thread needs to be moved to RNF

no it doesn't. a legitimate engage is going to require more skill than a 100-200 person fte zergfest every single day.

until velious the best we can hope for is more server repops IMO. they started doing them then stopped, not sure why.

[maverixdamighty]

There has not been a single legitimate engage since the advent of Variance.

again...uninformed.

[quido]

beavis christ zephany, get a grip

[maverixdamighty]

I am clearly infinitely more informed than you about the deplorable state of this server and what needs to be done to remedy it.

you are about as clueless as the OP of this thread.

[maverixdamighty]

I would never tell someone to look forward to the raid scene on this server, would you?

You and your group of fuck-enablers has destroyed this server and you have no legitimate input into this discussion after being a main root of the issue for so long.

true or false you tried to join TMO and were denied?

If the raid scene was so deplorable why would you do such a thing, boggles!

[maverixdamighty]

I joined TMO over a year ago, tracked for over 20 hours in one week, and was removed due to sheer intelligence. Close to the truth as you will ever come.

sounds plausible.

[skipdog]

I have yet to hear a single non-absurd argument for the continuation of Variance on this server. Please feel free to contribute.

You have repeated this over and over so I'll use the same argument Sirkin stated in another thread today:

as far as different rules for different bosses or different raids, that was a problem all on its own. it started because i didnt like 100 afk people sitting on trak spawn spot, and a random number generator giving FTE to an AFK player. it was stupid, and it killed any and all competition/racing for the mobs it was happening on.

Basically, a FTE poopsock fest is not a healthy or good competition. It doesn't measure much. The "winner" is the guild that got picked by the random number generator. You think that is the best way to determine who deserves the loot?

To many, the best competition that this game can offer, is a mobilization contest that this variance creates.

I don't think anybody can honestly say that they think its a better "competition" to have 4 guilds standing on a mob spawn and killing it instantly and having a random number generator choose the winner compared to "which guild can engage a monster first that can spawn at a random time."

The people here from smaller non-tracking guilds wanting the removal of variance completely, simply want the ability to poopsock mobs and let a random number generator determine the victor, with very minimal time invested. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't sit here and act like it's "better for the server" or it "makes for a better competition" or "the server is dying cuz TMO". The server certainly isn't dying, and the raid scene is certainly not in a state where it could ever cause the server to die.

If you other guilds really wanted better "competition" than your suggestions would reflect that. They don't for the most part. The fact is, no matter what changes are made, if there is supposed to be a sense of "competition", then that means a guild can be the best on the server in whatever that competition consists of. That means they will get a huge majority of the loot. The only way for this to not be the case, is for there to be no competition, i.e. GM forced rotations or FTE poopsock lotteries. That's fine if you want that, but at least say it. At least just say "TMO is better than us, and we just wish we could get loot without working as hard as they do". There have been some great suggestions, such as making VP a non-training zone and having more notice on server repops and I think those are good reasonable changes that wouldn't remove the spirit of competition from the server.

[ripwind]

Yikes. This thread!

So, new guy here. I started raiding back in Kunark/Velious on live. I think at that time, boss re-pops seemed to be relatively random, but still somewhat "guaranteed" to happen within a certain amount of time. It wasn't like they popped exactly 72 hours after they were killed or something. Am I mistaken?

Please excuse my ignorance, and don't flame me too hard.

Thanks!

-Rip

[Lyra]

You think that is the best way to determine who deserves the loot?

There are a lot of things in this state of the game that may not be best.

If we are going to make changes to make the game better, we sure aren't going to call it classic EQ, are we?

Clearly....ever so clearly....variance is not some brilliant improvement to original EQ.

I am in no way guaranteeing an immediate resolution to this servers raiding scene problems, but it will at least give us the original game.

[maverixdamighty]

So... Variance = Tracking Guilds = Zerg
No Variance = FTE = no favoritism either way, it goes completely by the population of the guild at that raid = 100% Classic.

please post a ss similar to a FTE poopsock from live.

[maverixdamighty]

I'm sorry, are you saying that there was Variance in Classic?

i'm sorry i already stated there was no variance but there also weren't 500 capped characters competing for the same mobs in kunark. I'll wait for you to post a screenshot of one of these FTE battles on classic in kunark since you claim it's classic.

[skipdog]

K Skipdog, I'm going to respond to you nicely since it seems to be in the spirit that you responded to me. I implore you to follow my (extremely short) steps of logic as I have followed yours.

TMO is bigger than us, us being the casual guilds that deplore the raidscene on this server. That's FINE. We just wish we could compete on a level playing field where the larger the guild is, the bigger their chances are at a FTE. Variance completely changes this, to the point where, "ONLY the tracking guilds, which also have the wherewithal to zerg the track target, have a chance to compete."

So... Variance = Tracking Guilds = Zerg
No Variance = FTE = no favoritism either way, it goes completely by the population of the guild at that raid = 100% Classic.

Not sure what you think you are spelling out to me... yeah I understand everything you've said and even made that abundantly clear in my post.

So you want zero competition and want to show up at xx pm, instakill the dragon and hope to win the lottery. Grats. I assume you would also be happy with not even going to the spawn point and just signing up for a loot lottery and being logged in a certain time, right? I mean, what does it matter? It's not like you even get to experience an actual fight with the dragon or want any competition.

At least you've just admitted that "yeah, we don't want to compete, because they are way better than us. we just want a chance at free loot without all the effort".

[skipdog]

There are a lot of things in this state of the game that may not be best.

If we are going to make changes to make the game better, we sure aren't going to call it classic EQ, are we?

Clearly....ever so clearly....variance is not some brilliant improvement to original EQ.

I am in no way guaranteeing an immediate resolution to this servers raiding scene problems, but it will at least give us the original game.

Yep, "classic" was ignored in this case, for actual raiding competition. Just like "staring at the spellbook" was removed and many other non-classic things ignored to make the server better without ruining the classic experience. I see your point, classic is classic and that's what this server is. But nobody is screaming to bring the spellbook back and there are many many many examples that players are thankful that it's not "completely classic". I'd rather have the server staff choose to do what they think is best for the server. At least it's clear that the people complaining, simply don't want to compete and simply want the chance at free loot without the work.

I get that it's super easy to just say "it's Classic" and not have to argue points or admit that you don't want competition and honestly I don't have anything I can say to get around this loophole.

[Splorf22]

To many, the best competition that this game can offer, is a mobilization contest that this variance creates.

This is simply not true. You have a tracking competition, and a 'who can log out the most buffed chars' competition.

[maverixdamighty]

Since you were so fucking stupidly demanding of people who were 100% against anything you said in your illogical and self-interest-driven rants today.

don't care if people are against what i posted or not it's true. i'm not going to keep spamming it for 100 more pages like you feel the need to. sorry you got rejected from tmo and now you are leading a crusade against them.

[KotBK]

I'm still waiting for the "mistake" of implementing this random variance extension protocol to get reverted back to something else since it wasn't "suppose to be in", but rather "was just being played with on the test server". Funny it was indeed a random elaborate suggestion by a member of the guild it would favor most though as well, granted that didn't have any true influence on the change or did it?

Still awaiting the "improvements" that have been said are coming for the past year or so as well by the project lead himself.

inb4 Velious fixes all, because let's face it Velious isn't coming anytime soon.

[maverixdamighty]

Sir... I actually do hate to be the one to break this to you, but people are against what you posted because it's completely and demonstrably NOT true.

where is the screenshot of 200 people sitting around waiting for kunark mobs to spawn? should be easy to find if it's classic.

edit: What guild were you on in live? Rebirth (tholuxe paells) every server first from naggy through pop. pretty sure i have more knowledge of end game eq on live and here than you in my pinky.

[Lyra]

Yep, "classic" was ignored in this case, for actual raiding competition. Just like "staring at the spellbook" was removed and many other non-classic things ignored to make the server better without ruining the classic experience. I see your point, classic is classic and that's what this server is. But nobody is screaming to bring the spellbook back and there are many many many examples that players are thankful that it's not "completely classic". I'd rather have the server staff choose to do what they think is best for the server. At least it's clear that the people complaining, simply don't want to compete and simply want the chance at free loot without the work.

I get that it's super easy to just say "it's Classic" and not have to argue points or admit that you don't want competition and honestly I don't have anything I can say to get around this loophole.

OK

Project 1999 is not classic.

I'll spread the word.

Thanks

[maverixdamighty]

doesn't answer the question. yes nothing will ever be 100% classic, but yet here you are arguing for something because it was classic? Makes 0 sense.

[skipdog]

How is it zero competition when you literally have to race to every single raid mob you want from now on against other guilds since they will know the spawn times? You are only projecting your fears of TMO losing loots into this thread, which is absolutely correct, because TMO will not recieve the same proportion of loots that they did under such an unfair and favoritist policy such as Variance.

So TMO should be fucking PETRIFIED of this, absolutely. Which is why we have so many idiotic arguments in this thread when there's literally not one that is logical.

Race? What do you mean? You know the spawn times if there is no variance. You just "make sure you are there before the clock hits XX and then random number generator will decide". That isn't competition and it certainly isn't a healthy competition, which was the entire point of my argument against variance. You keep stating over and over that any argument for variance is absurd and, well, I just don't think my argument(which is the same as Sirkin's) is illogical. Just because you've repeated it a hundred times doesn't make it true. You have to actually provide some arguments and you literally haven't touched any of my arguments. You are mad that TMO is the best at the server's competition so you want all competition removed. Got it!

I have no clue what you are talking about with projecting my fears of TMO losing loot. I guess defending the server's ruleset and the decisions of server devs means I am afraid of TMO not getting loot? That is honestly what you are trying to say? That's insane.

Of course TMO would be scared if variance was removed. There would no longer be competition of any sort and they could no longer be the best. I'm not sure who in their right mind would argue that point.

[maverixdamighty]

We can certainly do our best, which is not anywhere near close to Variance. See?

everquest on live rewarded time invested with rewards/loots. i'd argue that your proposal to remove variance with the knowledge it would just lead to epic zerg FTE fights would be the exact opposite of that. if anything adding in variance (and yes you are going to get arguments from guilds that don't want to track and think it's unfair) is much closer to classic in regards to rewarding the guilds with the most time invested.

again did you even raid on live in kunark?

[skipdog]

This is simply not true. You have a tracking competition, and a 'who can log out the most buffed chars' competition.

When I said a "mobilization contest" I was in fact, referring to everything that goes into mobilization. That included tracking, having multiple characters parked in multiple places, responding to bat phones etc. Sorry I didn't go into depth with my response.

Having characters ready to be at any location certainly is a part of mobilization. I can see you guys are really grasping now.

[maverixdamighty]

plenty of legit racing happens. talendor, gore, both gods, draco, maestro. the only ones that really have an emphasis on parking chars are trak, vs and sev to some extent but even he is fairly easy to mobilize for.

[maverixdamighty]

Healthy competition?! Are you FUCKING serious?! Variance promotes competition... between TMO and their last week's record of drops.

TMO doesn't have the skills to compete in a Repop-No Variance FTE vs the in-all-ways-complete-free-for-all that they have been afforded by Rogean. OBVIOUSLY they are going to want to say anything (literally anything, which is rather counterproductive, fucking idiots) to prevent the eventuality of the removal of Variance, their GOLDEN CASH COW.

What guild are you in?

clueless. again as people have pointed out every actual statistical piece of data out there contradicts this. on server repops TMO gets the majority of what they want. on the subsequent repops w/o variance they may lose some here/there due to FTE, but that is a lose/lose for everyone involved in that FTE battle if they are looking for actual fun. if all you want is a chance at loot without having to do any work just petition sirken that you think you should get some vp loot or something.

edit: did you just use the word skill? hypocrite...

[freez]

ahh. i remember back when i played blue.

i got to kill all the dragons and gods.. shits boring with a zerg.

so glad red doesnt have these kinds of problems.

[maverixdamighty]

Ok, you're just wrong here.

100% of the time, repops have been reported to result in more loot for non-TMO guilds than is average for Variance.

So what do you have to say to this exactly?

what guilds got any of the important mobs? tmo will get the mobs they want on server repops and every single time they have with the exception of FE getting some kills. no other guild on the server has gotten a "significant" raid target on a server repop. the closest one was talendor to divinity.

[maverixdamighty]

I think that if you thought about it for approximately eight seconds, that the complete fairness-to-time-invested ratio that FTE allows is completely contradictory to your statement, since Variance inequitably rewards those who have a larger guild, as opposed to those who spent more time attempting to accomplish the reward.

showing up 2 minutes prior to a mob spawning is not time invested. variance enables those who have the desire to go after mobs to structure their guilds in a way that allows them to compete.

[Splorf22]

When I said a "mobilization contest" I was in fact, referring to everything that goes into mobilization. That included tracking, having multiple characters parked in multiple places, responding to bat phones etc. Sorry I didn't go into depth with my response.

Having characters ready to be at any location certainly is a part of mobilization. I can see you guys are really grasping now.

I don't think you understood my post at all. I didn't post that in a grammar nazi 'haha you forgot this' way. I posted it it 'you are taking some of the most fucking retarded gameplay on the planet and covering it up under the term mobilization' way.

[maverixdamighty]

In that the largest guilds are able to compete the best? I'm sorry but, that is not Classic and should not be in any emulator of EverQuest.

FE is no larger in it's current state than bda/div/FC/rapture/etc. Comments? The larger guilds you talk about are also more organized and more motivated to compete the best which is entirely classic.

[maverixdamighty]

I don't think you understood my post at all. I didn't post that in a grammar nazi 'haha you forgot this' way. I posted it it 'you are taking some of the most fucking retarded gameplay on the planet and covering it up under the term mobilization' way.

you are discounting the fact there is legit mobilization for quite a few major targets. yes it still requires tracking, but it doesn't involve having people camped right at raid targets.

[maverixdamighty]

Wouldn't the fact that guilds show up to these contested FTE spawns be proof in your mind that they are organized?

Just because there aren't 100+ people in the guild, Tracking mob spawns throughout a TOTALLY UNCLASSIC 128-hour period, they don't deserve a CHANCE at the loot?

The only thing that Variance does is allot a disproportionately higher chance to the enormous Tracking guilds (whose only purpose is to take advantage of Variance) that they will be the ones to eventually down the mob.

you just state that the reason other guilds couldn't compete was because they can't compete with the zerg. FE is no larger than any of those other guilds I listed and still gets some raid targets. Your assumption is wrong. You could have a guild of 1,000 people and still miss raid targets if people don't know what they are doing and are not organized.

[maverixdamighty]

FE is larger, better mobilized, and better equipped than your average guild.

What this means in terms of FTE is that FE would get FTE more than the average guild per SKILL. Which is absolutely Classic and in line with their stated policies.

What this SHOULD NOT MEAN is that FE gets more than the average guild per POPULATION. Which is exactly what Variance does. It de-promotes competition in that only the largest guilds can compete with the Tracking and Mobilization onto targets. This never existed in Classic and is an arbitrary and artificial mechanic to promote TMO on this server.

we have about 40-50 active players so wrong again.

better geared because we attempt to get mobs not sit on the forums and complain about how unfair life is.

[freez]

no variance on red.

could you imagine?

[maverixdamighty]

I was right there with you guys a few months ago. The real difference is that I'm not complaining about how unfair life in general is, but how unfair Variance in specific is. FE would get a lot more important loots without Variance and I do not believe that your leadership is inured to the status quo enough to say otherwise.

i'd rather quit playing than play in your proposed server where the winner is the first person to hit a mob regardless if their raid force was sufficient etc. have fun with that. if FE gets important loots its because we earned it not because we whined until rules were changed to give us a chance.

[Nune]

ahh. i remember back when i played blue.

i got to kill all the dragons and gods.. shits boring with a zerg.

so glad red doesnt have these kinds of problems.

Yeah, dragons and gods dont get killed by a zerg of 1 guild on Red. That's CLEARLY not how the server is right now :cool:

lol retard

[Lyra]

i'd rather quit playing than play in your proposed server where the winner is the first person to hit a mob regardless if their raid force was sufficient etc. have fun with that. if FE gets important loots its because we earned it not because we whined until rules were changed to give us a chance.

This is what I don't understand. In classic, if another guild got there first and the guild that got there second saw that they didn't have the raid force capable of killing the mob, they would wait for them to wipe.

Why wouldn't that happen here?

[freez]

Yeah, dragons and gods dont get killed by a zerg of 1 guild on Red. That's CLEARLY not how the server is right now :cool:

lol retard

this can be fixed

variance will not be fixed

gonna refrain from calling you a retard aswell seeing as im not looking to get bent and bant over blue server chat for the twelth time.

[August]

TMO translation: any argument or thread that completely obliterates the morale behind the idea of Variance should not be observed in the general P99 community.

I'm not in TMO. I just see you and max arguing at each other and it's not productive. We had good points for maybe the first 25 pages of this thread. Now on 77 or whatever, you guys are just arguing.

Let me ask you a question. Do you think you are going to convince anyone to see it your way? Do you think the stubborn people here are going to come to your side? This isn't just at Enslaved - this is at everyone who is arguing.

You can't win a forum argument. It doesn't happen.

[freez]

This is what I don't understand. In classic, if another guild got there first and the guild that got there second saw that they didn't have the raid force capable of killing the mob, they would wait for them to wipe.

Why wouldn't that happen here?

because there is no respect.

nothing left to do but

1 - quit
2 - deal with it.jpg
3 - play red where there isnt a variance, never will be.. etc


balls in your court brews. these are your options.

[maverixdamighty]

This is what I don't understand. In classic, if another guild got there first and the guild that got there second saw that they didn't have the raid force capable of killing the mob, they would wait for them to wipe.

Why wouldn't that happen here?

raids were't sitting on top of the mobs.

[maverixdamighty]

Hilarious. Red Herring, dude!!

Why would the force that got FTE be able to kill a raid target with insufficient force if there was an FTE shout? If your guild was ANY GOOD, they'd back off the target after they saw they weren't FTE.

with 100-200ish people on the target even if everyone disengages right away you are bound to do atleast 10k almost immediately.

[maverixdamighty]

I feel as if every time he cannot substantially argue a point, (ie every single time) it advances the cause of No Variance by a degree or two in the psyche of every person who reads this thread, even unconsciously. So yes, I feel that in winning what amounts to every single post on this thread, I also bring the server that much closer to What Should Be.

good thing no one cares what you feel other than yourself.

[maverixdamighty]

100-200, so this is basically just a Trakanon thread now? What other mob would immediately draw 100-200 raiders? I honestly don't believe there's enough left over for VS there.

If Trakanon's loot is awesome enough to warrant this, what is the problem with having an actually fair and Classic spawn for FTE?

it's not classic, but keep acting like it is so you have a /random 100 chance at getting the loot you want.

[maverixdamighty]

That's the problem, we can't act like it's a Classic server because it's nowhere CLOSE to a Classic server with Variance in play, netting the 2 guilds with everything, everything.

Adoiyeeee

your suggestions are not classic, this server is not classic, the closest we will get to being classic (yes deejay keeping in mind that we all know the encounters now) is to wipe the server and have no variance and content progression that mirrors classic, but people will complain about that too.

[maverixdamighty]

I, and likely about 90% of the reasonable, logical, intelligent people on this server, are still waiting for a single viable reason why Variance should not be eliminated immediately for the good of P99.

you've been presented with a plethora but you don't care. all you want is loot that you didn't earn. go play wow or something.

[maverixdamighty]

Ignored forever, and good riddance. You are such a smarmy little piece of shit, eeling out of every single question we asked you, every lie exposed. Good luck with being like that irl, man. You're going to need every single erg of it.

i responded to you over and over, but you are too stupid and uninformed to comprehend any facts. good riddance to an uninformed, ignorant, sad, mad, bad rejected tmo applicant.

[Requiemz]

I had to make an account just to post on this. I don't know if any of you guys played fippy progression server in its prime, but i was in the top "powerhouse" guild Twisted Legion and its the same thing as whats happening on here. If you can't handle the way eq raiding happens then this just isn't the game for you. Or it seems there is enough of you opposing the two top guilds on this server, why not try and make your own "powerhouse" guild. What better way to show your hatred for them then taking there targets?

[Lyra]

OH, Fippy had variance?

[Requiemz]

The targets had windows so yes fippy had variance. Not sure if its to the same degree as this server though

[Requiemz]

There would be 35-50 people on call at every hour of the day when a targets window would begin to compete with shitizen(the rival guild, if you could call them that)

[porigromus]

everquest on live rewarded time invested with rewards/loots. i'd argue that your proposal to remove variance with the knowledge it would just lead to epic zerg FTE fights would be the exact opposite of that. if anything adding in variance (and yes you are going to get arguments from guilds that don't want to track and think it's unfair) is much closer to classic in regards to rewarding the guilds with the most time invested.

again did you even raid on live in kunark?

I think classic spawn times would be much closer to classic. How much more classic could you get? To argue against this would be absurd. Why is there variance when it isn't classic?

Why customize one part of a server aiming to be classic to "improve" game play when that isn't what this project is about? This project is about recreating classic and that includes all the classic perceived hardships, difficulties, positives, negatives ... that classic offers.

Who cares if the raid scene is tough, unfair, it should be tough, unfair or whatever but be classic. That is the goal after all. If the goal is to make a classic like EQ experience yet with improvements, varience would be the first "improvement in my mind that isn't living up to the task.

If we are making a classic server with improvements, I can think of much better ones such as a custom made auction house, instanced dungeons .. etc .. but that isn't the goal of this project.

I thought it was to re-create the classic experience. Remove variance and let classic be classic, problems in all. Why pick and choose what is classic?

[August]

OH, Fippy had variance?

There were windows, for sure. Poopsocks started w/ the window starting, and we'd all sit there until it popped - you didn't know exactly when it was coming.

[maverixdamighty]

I think classic spawn times would be much closer to classic. How much more classic could you get? To argue against this would be absurd. Why is there variance when it isn't classic?

Why customize one part of a server aiming to be classic to "improve" game play when that isn't what this project is about? This project is about recreating classic and that includes all the classic perceived hardships, difficulties, positives, negatives ... that classic offers.

Who cares if the raid scene is tough, unfair, it should be tough, unfair or whatever but be classic. That is the goal after all. If the goal is to make a classic like EQ experience yet with improvements, varience would be the first "improvement in my mind that isn't living up to the task.

If we are making a classic server with improvements, I can think of much better ones such as a custom made auction house, instanced dungeons .. etc .. but that isn't the goal of this project.

I thought it was to re-create the classic experience. Remove variance and let classic be classic, problems in all. Why pick and choose what is classic?

yes no variance would be classic, but removal of variance completely would lead to 100-200 ppl sitting on top of trakanon's spawn fighting for the first hit on him to gain agro and the loot from the mob. that is not classic. again if anyone wants to post a screenshot of this happening on live when kunark was the top content please feel free to prove me wrong.

[Lyra]

yes no variance would be classic, but removal of variance completely would lead to 100-200 ppl sitting on top of trakanon's spawn fighting for the first hit on him to gain agro and the loot from the mob. that is not classic. again if anyone wants to post a screenshot of this happening on live when kunark was the top content please feel free to prove me wrong.

I think we could bond over FTE without variance.

We'd be one big happy family, suffering together.

Or...

Maybe when everyone is in the same boat...they'd learn to work together.

I'll start...

Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya
O Lord Kumbaya

One can dream. You will never take that away.

[maverixdamighty]

I think we could bond over FTE without variance.

We'd be one big happy family, suffering together.

Or...

Maybe when everyone is in the same boat...they'd learn to work together.

I'll start...

Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya
Kumbaya my lord, Kumbaya
O Lord Kumbaya

One can dream. You will never take that away.

something like that.

[porigromus]

yes no variance would be classic, but removal of variance completely would lead to 100-200 ppl sitting on top of trakanon's spawn fighting for the first hit on him to gain agro and the loot from the mob. that is not classic. again if anyone wants to post a screenshot of this happening on live when kunark was the top content please feel free to prove me wrong.

You can only work to make the game as classic as possible. It's unreasonable to compare people's behaviour as something nonclassic developers can control. You can make the sandbox and invite people to play in it but can't control their behaviour.

[pharmakos]

removing variance means 250man poopsocking fte-fests and guilds locking timers down to off-peak hours in order to combat that.

six of one or a half dozen of the other imo, they both stink

Oh hey welcome to the debate. You may want to read the OTHER THOUSAND FUCKING POSTS FIRST.

Repops.

i have been keeping up with this ridiculously huge thread to the best of my ability. unfortunately, i actually like to spend time playing the game and therefore can't keep up with every single post. there's been 12 full pages of new posts just since i made that comment 9 hours ago.

here's my favorite post from this thread, though:

Zerg guilds, on both servers, I wish you would drop some numbers or create rules or rotations with other guilds. It's ridiculous that it reaches the point that management is blamed for what happens in game.

so much energy going into this thread. so much time that could have been spent tracking. ;)

or even spent, like i spend my time, finding new servers that aren't cancerously huge at the top end...

[Kagatob]

This thread is still going? Morons, get rid of FTE and variance at once, actually enforce PNP during raids (leapfrogging among a plethora of other things that go on in P99 weren't allowed in classic), disallow raid forces of alt armies to be camped at raid spawns. That's the correct first step in the right direction.

This has been debated to death and the GM's/Devs agree that it's the way to go, the issue is implementation. Get over yourselves thinking you know what's going on.

[webrunner5]

Correction: ONLY ROGEAN has ever said that he is against the removal of Variance. Which would argue for the removal of Rogean.

Because he *WAS* the lead developer on P99 (and has done basically nothing but delay development for the past several years) is no reason for us to subscribe to his COMPLETELY IDIOTIC and UTTERLY FAVORITIST wishes for Variance, when Nilbog and the ENTIRE LEGITIMATE RAID COMMUNITY OF P99 is against it.

Oh come on. This IS Nilbog's sandbox. If Nilbog was big time in favor of getting rid of Variance it would be gone. Your statement is just silly as far as I am concerned.

[enr4ged]

variance is crap, but your proposal to just remove it completely also leads to a crap raid scene that actually will require much less skill to get end game mobs.

kunark was not designed to have this many capped characters with epics, dragon haste, vp gear, etc etc etc, PERIOD.

And EverQuest was not designed to let people have multiple free accounts which are not paid for, and did not allow account trading. So you can't use that argument to defend your point when it's not even a legitimate classic scenario that allows you to get to that point.

The truth is if accounts were limited in someway by one account per IP per period to emulate a more classic scenario, and account trading was not promoted with accounts that were traded being banned then this server would not be in the current state. These are the root of the problem which makes the stupid perma camp fest happen today.

[Toodles]

..... I'd rather have the server staff choose to do what they think is best for the server. At least it's clear that the people complaining, simply don't want to compete and simply want the chance at free loot without the work.

I get that it's super easy to just say "it's Classic" and not have to argue points or admit that you don't want competition and honestly I don't have anything I can say to get around this loophole.

The problem is that letting the staff make such blanketed decisions affects everybody - which is salt in the wound when the only reason it's done, is to appease(or have appeased) the large and whiny top end guilds.

When the staff took out spell book staring, they weren't getting whispers in their ear from over zealous guild leaders.

[raff01]

Yup enforce PnP indeed is the only and simple solution and it was in place during classic.
Back in the days, the behavior of TMO would have led to disbanding the guild on many occasions.
Just like certain players who entirely screw a whole zone because they are powerleveling friends or people who perma camp certain spots.
PnP was basically a rule that stated that you shouldn't play like a dickhead and you could get banned for being a dickhead.

[maverixdamighty]

And EverQuest was not designed to let people have multiple free accounts which are not paid for, and did not allow account trading. So you can't use that argument to defend your point when it's not even a legitimate classic scenario that allows you to get to that point.

The truth is if accounts were limited in someway by one account per IP per period to emulate a more classic scenario, and account trading was not promoted with accounts that were traded being banned then this server would not be in the current state. These are the root of the problem which makes the stupid perma camp fest happen today.

you could still have up to what 8 chars on the same account? people just put their chars on other accounts here because it's an option...

edit: also as far as account trading I had multiple people give me their account on live. It wasn't nearly as big a factor as it is here, but it was an option.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I haven't checked in on this mess I apparently started, but has anyone at least posted a picture of some boobs past few pages? I'll check back later. Someone better have. Jesus. I gotta read this crap now.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

and oh yeah:

lvl 33 bitches. wewt. it's tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time

it's tricky!

[enr4ged]

you could still have up to what 8 chars on the same account? people just put their chars on other accounts here because it's an option...

edit: also as far as account trading I had multiple people give me their account on live. It wasn't nearly as big a factor as it is here, but it was an option.

When all characters are on the same account its different.

1. You can't have other people log into your other character to do things like power level your own characters.
2. People are less willing to trade their characters, as all their characters were on the same account.

In order to get that kind of freedom you had to buy new box of the game, and pay for the account separately. In its current form on p99 characters and levels are just massively inflated due to this.

[falkun]

Yep, "classic" was ignored in this case, for actual raiding competition. Just like "staring at the spellbook" was removed and many other non-classic things ignored to make the server better without ruining the classic experience.

Bizy, this is an extremely ignorant post. Project1999 attempts to recreate classic mechanics as best as possible (minus variance). The only times classic mechanics are not strictly honored is when its not possible. As for your example for the spell book, that is, from all reports, an unfixable client issue. THAT is the only reason it is allowed to exist, NOT to "make the server better without ruining the classic experience."

Casters dont have to look at a book till 30 to med.Level 35.

Unfixable, afaik.
Below, Nilbog agrees with a poster stating the exact opposite of what you opine: not staring at a spellbook ruins classic authenticity. Note in the following post I added OP's comment for context.
I remember in 1999 when you sat to med the spell book opened blocking your view of anything else. This forced casters to find a safe place to med and does not feel authentic without it.
Thanks.
OP, yes, it's classic, I miss it, and I love nerfing casters.

Spellbook medding wasn't removed until 2002. :P

[maverixdamighty]

When all characters are on the same account its different.

1. You can't have other people log into your other character to do things like power level your own characters.
2. People are less willing to trade their characters, as all their characters were on the same account.

In order to get that kind of freedom you had to buy new box of the game, and pay for the account separately. In its current form on p99 characters and levels are just massively inflated due to this.

still would not stop parking characters at targets...

[webrunner5]

[QUOTE=Toodles;977127]The problem is that letting the staff make such blanketed decisions affects everybody - which is salt in the wound when the only reason it's done, is to appease(or have appeased) the large and whiny top end guilds.

This game has ALWAYS appeased to the top guilds here and on live. What else is new??

[enr4ged]

still would not stop parking characters at targets...

I think you are missing the point... without the ability to so easily level and buy characters and then sustain those multiple accounts for free there would not be people with multiple accounts and characters that can then park them at those places.

It's like a domino effect and we've gotten to the point where people that have been playing on this server for so long can do what they are doing because of it.

[enr4ged]

This game has ALWAYS appeased to the top guilds here and on live. What else is new??

Not the guilds who trained others constantly, leap frogged other guilds, and were just generally all around assholes to the community. Like someone brought up earlier the PnP would have been enforced on those guilds.

Suspended from one raid mob, one time... that's the punishment? It's pathetic to say the least and hardly even a slap on the wrist.

[webrunner5]

I think you are missing the point... without the ability to so easily level and buy characters and then sustain those multiple accounts for free there would not be people with multiple accounts and characters that can then park them at those places.

Hard Core players don't care. I had 9 accounts on live that I paid for every month for years. 3 for my son and 6 for me to 5 or 6 box. Sony loved me. And I loved it also. People in TMO are HARD CORE PLAYERS. They are Pitbulls and love it. And they are laughing their ass off about all the other people on here crying like little girls. I think the Devs are laughing also about this silly thread. :o

[falkun]

I'm laughing at you for thinking the Devs enjoy Variance. Nilbog loves classic. Nilbog routinely criticizes the large raid guilds for their tactics:
One huge difference that I've witnessed on p99 compared to my eqlive server experience is the massive amounts of players per raiding guild.

On classic live, I'm not sure if it was the inter-guild conflicts, lack of enough loot to go around, or generally wanting to compete, but there were never guilds this large.


Why so large, raid guilds?


http://foodbeast.com/content/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/zerg.jpg

[webrunner5]

I'm laughing at you for thinking the Devs enjoy Variance. Nilbog loves classic. Nilbog routinely criticizes the large raid guilds for their tactics:

Then if he is so much against it like you seem to think, he can surely change it can't he. This is HIS server. Not TMO's. Has he done shit? NO. Has Sirken stopped it, NO. Just recommended getting the next 4 or 5 guilds together and becoming the new sorry ass top guild that will do the same shit. So like it the way it is or quit and go play on another server. Or better yet just quit raiding on here. Your blood pressure will drop to safe levels. You will thank me for that advise some day.

[maverixdamighty]

I'm laughing at you for thinking the Devs enjoy Variance. Nilbog loves classic. Nilbog routinely criticizes the large raid guilds for their tactics:

don't think it matters to nilbog as he's not the one dealing with variance honestly.

[enr4ged]

Hard Core players don't care. I had 9 accounts on live that I paid for every month for years. 3 for my son and 6 for me to 5 or 6 box. Sony loved me. And I loved it also. People in TMO are HARD CORE PLAYERS. They are Pitbulls and love it. And they are laughing their ass off about all the other people on here crying like little girls. I think the Devs are laughing also about this silly thread. :o

Nine accounts... although I find that hard to believe, even if, you're an outlier in the grand scheme of things.

"hard core" players aren't playing EQ classic on a private server, lol. It doesn't take a lot of effort to get into that position. All it takes is starting on the server when it first opens. Once you have the monopoly setup its a snowball rolling down a hill. And that shouldn't exempt you from following server rules so you get your way. Penalties need to be harsher for offenders.

If that's how the devs would treat the overwhelming majority of the server population and you agree with it then it's really fucked up, and you're kind of an asshole.

[webrunner5]

Nine accounts... although I find that hard to believe, even if, you're an outlier in the grand scheme of things.

I make a LOT of money. I am a Pitbull. Sorry that you don't or aren't. :( If you can't afford $150.00 a month for a hobby you might as well jump off the roof.

[feanan]

Doubt a lot of "pitbulls" are getting their rocks off playing a 13 year old game, where all the strats for winning were on the web...oh, 13 years ago.

you go pitbull, go!

[Danth]

Variance hasn't always been around. When P1999 didn't have variance these forum threads were basically the same, just with different guild names at the time.

Danth

[Gadwen]

Doubt a lot of "pitbulls" are getting their rocks off playing a 13 year old game, where all the strats for winning were on the web...oh, 13 years ago.

you go pitbull, go!

There are soooo many competitive games out there that actually take skill, but its not about competition here. It's a safe way to feel awesome because you never really lose in PvE EQ.

[maverixdamighty]

Variance hasn't always been around. When P1999 didn't have variance these forum threads were basically the same, just with different guild names at the time.

Danth

no removing it will clearly make the server prosper and every guild will get top targets and be happy! Sorry for the sarcasm.

[Uggme]

I make a LOT of money. I am a Pitbull. Sorry that you don't or aren't. :( If you can't afford $150.00 a month for a hobby you might as well jump off the roof.

LOL @ the internet tough guy bragging about his income on a forum for a 13 yo game.

You lose.

[falkun]

Then if he is so much against it like you seem to think, he can surely change it can't he. This is HIS server. Not TMO's. Has he done shit? NO. Has Sirken stopped it, NO. Just recommended getting the next 4 or 5 guilds together and becoming the new sorry ass top guild that will do the same shit. So like it the way it is or quit and go play on another server. Or better yet just quit raiding on here. Your blood pressure will drop to safe levels. You will thank me for that advise some day.

From my understanding, Nilbog does not like variance, but believes in its necessity on Project1999. I don't like paying taxes, but I see the necessity in them to provide road maintenance and the like. This server's raid scene is retarded, and its our own fault for that. You advocate individuals should leave the server or succumb to the extremely prominent minority, I say that minority is crazy and should have a reality check.

But that is not how this server is governed: toss out morality and focus on the concrete black and white letter of the law instead of the intent of the law. There is very little I can do to change this philosophy.
no removing it will clearly make the server prosper and every guild will get top targets and be happy! Sorry for the sarcasm.
I do not say that variance will fix the raid scene. I propose it'll be classic mechanics and the utter crap that will ensue due to pure FTE-on-spawn fights will force the players that created the crappy raid scene to deal with themselves to fix the raid scene themselves instead of implementing more rules/server mechanics to deal with each other for us. We are the problem, the solution should come from us.

[webrunner5]

LOL @ the internet tough guy bragging about his income on a forum for a 13 yo game.

You lose.

No I don't like being called a lier about having 9 accounts. I have them. I can afford them. What can I say. If you don't like it too bad.

[maverixdamighty]

From my understanding, Nilbog does not like variance, but believes in its necessity on Project1999. I don't like paying taxes, but I see the necessity in them to provide road maintenance and the like. This server's raid scene is retarded, and its our own fault for that. You advocate individuals should leave the server or succumb to the extremely prominent minority, I say that minority is crazy and should have a reality check.

But that is not how this server is governed: toss out morality and focus on the concrete black and white letter of the law instead of the intent of the law. There is very little I can do to change this philosophy.

I do not say that variance will fix the raid scene. I propose it'll be classic mechanics and the utter crap that will ensue due to pure FTE-on-spawn fights will force the players that created the crappy raid scene to deal with themselves to fix the raid scene themselves instead of implementing more rules/server mechanics to deal with each other for us. We are the problem, the solution should come from us.

people thought the same thing would happen with variance. tmo will still get the majority of the mobs and the casual guilds will get tired of losing FTE battles and give up again. How many guilds show up to dojo and he has no variance? exactly!

[falkun]

people thought the same thing would happen with variance. tmo will still get the majority of the mobs and the casual guilds will get tired of losing FTE battles and give up again. How many guilds show up to dojo and he has no variance? exactly!

If this is how you feel it's going to pan out, you should be advocating for this as it would relieve your tracking duties which you've already stated are a detriment to you.

[pharmakos]

I make a LOT of money. I am a Pitbull. Sorry that you don't or aren't. :( If you can't afford $150.00 a month for a hobby you might as well jump off the roof.

but i only have a one story house :'(

[maverixdamighty]

If this is how you feel it's going to pan out, you should be advocating for this as it would relieve your tracking duties which you've already stated are a detriment to you.

also said i don't want to participate in FTE fights for the majority of mobs as it is absolutely no fun. Already said variance + regular server repops is the best option IMO until velious is released then they could probably remove variance and hope enough content is out there to allow all guilds to get some raid targets.

I don't need to advocate for anything as changes aren't going to happen because of people whining on the forums. as people have pointed out the end game raid scene here sucked w/o variance years ago, sucks with variance, and will suck even more if variance is removed again 2 years later.

[Splorf22]

Mav what would be your opinion on some anti-camp code. Like when a raid mob spawns everyone near it is teleported to the zone in, and while its up you can't log in within X units or you will log in at the zone in instead.

[August]

where are the moderators. clearly rnf.

[maverixdamighty]

Mav what would be your opinion on some anti-camp code. Like when a raid mob spawns everyone near it is teleported to the zone in, and while its up you can't log in within X units or you will log in at the zone in instead.

think it would be extremely un-classic, but if you are looking to get more towards live races/mobilization it could work. on live i never remember camping out at raid targets like here, but we did have mage coth accounts at encounters to speed things up, which isn't that far off from camping there. i think that would be hard to code though, and not sure how fair it would be if guild A is coth'ing down there legitimately and Guild B has someone log in then everyone gets ported back to zone in...

again the only fix for this server IMO is more content being released sadly, and then eventually the same thing will happen in velious when the content is mastered but to a lesser extent since there is so much more content available at that point.

[spoils]

I make a LOT of money. I am a Pitbull. Sorry that you don't or aren't. :( If you can't afford $150.00 a month for a hobby you might as well jump off the roof.

ib4 return of the "young lawyer".

[webrunner5]

Gee, my money thingy sure has got me a lot of swell fans. Thanks. Nice to be liked. :D:D Carry on.

[webrunner5]

again the only fix for this server IMO is more content being released sadly, and then eventually the same thing will happen in velious when the content is mastered but to a lesser extent since there is so much more content available at that point.

I think in a pretty short time when TMO gets the factions needed they will perma camp Temple of Veeshan, but a lot of the rest of the zones will be open for regular guilds. So I don't think it will be all gloom and doom.

[webrunner5]

Except that they have bought an alt army with their ill-gotten gains purposely made just to permacamp everything by camping them out on several factions..

This is partly true. But you can still only play one toon at at a time so yeah they will have them camped in different areas but so can anyone do that. Hell you can have 3 accounts on here. That makes 24 toons ANYONE can have on here legit. :eek:

I think there is going to have to be less guilds when Velious comes out. The big mobs there are a LOT harder and the zones that TMO, FE wil tend to ignore in Kunark will take a lot more than the usual 15 to 20 guys that show up on the "Lesser" guilds have on average. So I can see some merging of some to make it happen. I know there will be more people on here when and if Velious ever comes out but more will be in TMO, FE also. But I see it working out a lot better in the long run. Just too many zones to cover for any one guild. But I am sure Zeelot has been planing. :rolleyes:

Remember it takes a hell of a lot of time and work for faction in Veloius,. So I think it is going to be hard to play more than just a couple of toons, and harder for the average person or lesser guilds. It will be interesting.

[Beaniron]

TC: The few times I asked about serious raiding, I was always told that to even have any business with the bigger targets, you need to be a member of TMO, FE, or BDA, as those three guilds have the entire raiding scene on lockdown 24/7 for the most part.

And, as I understand their requirements, you must be Lv60 with a full set of Resist Magic equipment to even apply for TMO.

This was a while ago though; things may have changed.

[maverixdamighty]

TC: The few times I asked about serious raiding, I was always told that to even have any business with the bigger targets, you need to be a member of TMO, FE, or BDA, as those three guilds have the entire raiding scene on lockdown 24/7 for the most part.

And, as I understand their requirements, you must be Lv60 with a full set of Resist Magic equipment to even apply for TMO.

This was a while ago though; things may have changed.

need to be 55+ and have the ability to press keys to join TMO.

[Beaniron]

need to be 55+ and have the ability to press keys to join TMO.

They've gotten a lot more flexible with their rules then, as has BDA.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

where are the moderators. clearly rnf.

This was auto-posted by a program the devs are testing. Disregard. It does work tho, woot.

(The in-game bot version still has some bugs too, but it is a good idea; good to keep server pop numbers up during low-traffic times.)

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Dammit, even the threads for this game are locked down by a minority of players.





(serious note: read a fair amount of this thread, 40 pages is enough for me for now. And there are some good points being made, and I, at least imho, saw some interesting new ideas and potential fixes. Some sort of anti-camp, and zoning, and logging rules for high end guilds on who call this game Farm Hunter, are the only thing that can stop this kind of dead end end game (DEEG) I am guessing. You have to eliminate the fish in barrel lock down they depend on to win. But, in respect to here, I am just going to keep with my simple observation. Not a single player has told me to plan on raiding the end game unless I want what I always ran away from in my almost 10 years of eq1 and 2: massive roster zerg guilds who get mobs strictly because of those two features 1) massive roster 2) zerg.

The Massive Roster Zerg Guild, the MRZG. AKA, what this server has decided to cultivate as its end game scene. Congratulations: the worst guild form eq had to suffer through, and you guys decided, yeah, that's how you pwn!

Very sad, very very sad. Not every classic server was "like this" you know. And no, not "every top player" plays this style. Some of us find it embarrassing.

So, I have no personal problem with the MRZG model, but I would laugh at anyone who said, that is how it's done, or that there is much honor in that. "Players who really know their class" are in these guilds? Maybe. But yer in a MRZG playing an endless game of Farm Hunter. That's not skill, that's min max ocd.

Skilled Advanced Determined and Respectable Enchanters (SADRE's) tend to prefer guilds that have rosters that are nearly equal to their fielded raid force, and still win. Unless, a MRZG is on the server. Then, SADRE's have a much more difficult road to success, because they have to figure out out how to wear down the MRZG That is very hard to do. It requires lengthy brute force domination, usually via an alliance, until the zerg riders and the farm hunters start to drop out from not getting things easy mode. That is my take. Nothing personal.)

[Nirgon]

step one: roll on red with your friends
step two: there you go

step three:http://i.imgur.com/vUnTJ.gif

[Kagatob]

Nirgon your posts are gold.

[pharmakos]

shoulda let this thread die -_-

[Clark]

http://s14.postimg.org/6s16etxpd/goodjob2.jpg

[Gadwen]

http://nukoda.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/evercrack.jpg

[Atmas]

I am just making an observation. I just play my lvl 30 enchanter, and I'm fairly decent, and people of course talk about the game as we play.

Not a single person has told me to plan on raiding, or to look forward to it, or to even bother. They have, in fact, told me above all get it out of my head this server is worth anything once you are done just adventuring and doing some exp'ing.

Not a single person. I am assuming some of the people I have played with are alts in the end game, too.

Just an observation. Word of mouth is all bad. Call them haters, call them losers, but I'm actually speaking to the GM's: that is your idea of a server that is going to thrive? One with a reputation of having a completely botched end game?

Because at a certain point, it is not "whining" -- it becomes fact.

Not a single person.



(serious note: read a fair amount of this thread, 40 pages is enough for me for now. And there are some good points being made, and I, at least imho, saw some interesting new ideas and potential fixes. Some sort of anti-camp, and zoning, and logging rules for high end guilds on who call this game Farm Hunter, are the only thing that can stop this kind of dead end end game (DEEG) I am guessing. You have to eliminate the fish in barrel lock down they depend on to win. But, in respect to here, I am just going to keep with my simple observation. Not a single player has told me to plan on raiding the end game unless I want what I always ran away from in my almost 10 years of eq1 and 2: massive roster zerg guilds who get mobs strictly because of those two features 1) massive roster 2) zerg.

The Massive Roster Zerg Guild, the MRZG. AKA, what this server has decided to cultivate as its end game scene. Congratulations: the worst guild form eq had to suffer through, and you guys decided, yeah, that's how you pwn!

Very sad, very very sad. Not every classic server was "like this" you know. And no, not "every top player" plays this style. Some of us find it embarrassing.

So, I have no personal problem with the MRZG model, but I would laugh at anyone who said, that is how it's done, or that there is much honor in that. "Players who really know their class" are in these guilds? Maybe. But yer in a MRZG playing an endless game of Farm Hunter. That's not skill, that's min max ocd.

Skilled Advanced Determined and Respectable Enchanters (SADRE's) tend to prefer guilds that have rosters that are nearly equal to their fielded raid force, and still win. Unless, a MRZG is on the server. Then, SADRE's have a much more difficult road to success, because they have to figure out out how to wear down the MRZG That is very hard to do. It requires lengthy brute force domination, usually via an alliance, until the zerg riders and the farm hunters start to drop out from not getting things easy mode. That is my take. Nothing personal.)

I must say, your progress from being a new to the server level 30 enchanter to end game raider with omniscient knowledge of numbers at all raids is very impressive.

[pharmakos]

I must say, your progress from being a new to the server level 30 enchanter to end game raider with omniscient knowledge of numbers at all raids is very impressive.

advancing in ForumQuest is a lot easier than EverQuest

[stormlord]

Classic EQ wasn't about endgame.

I know a lot of people think it was.

People at max level might think ti's.

But make no mistake, it's all about hte journey, not the destination.

Honestly, how many people do you think reached max level back then?

My guess is not very many. I didn't make max level until 2008. Started that character in 2001. First played in 1999. I didn't play very often, but I had the chance to. Bottom line, I enjoyed the journey.

I'll tell you what was fun about classic EQ. It was NEW. It was tough. It was social. We fought together, braving the wilderness. We found meaning in the struggle and held onto each other through the storm.

I finally did my first raiding in either 2007 or 2008, can't recall. But wasn't in a raid guild until late 2009. To be honest, raiding is boring compared to everything else. Too strict and time consuming. BUT it was gratifying. That guild was professional. I admired it. But it was too much for me. I'm a grouper/soloer at heart.