Rog Sneak / Hide

[Calabee]

ISNT EVEN a IVU + Invis. Regular mobs (non bile golems) in HS that normally dont see thru either, just knocked me the fuck out after sneak hidding correctly...

[Lendel Deeppockets]

Hide is not IVU at the moment for Rogues. Everything in Unrest can see through it.

http://i.imgur.com/M53dcRn.jpg

[khanable]

Yo druids, i'mma let you finish, but rogues had the best nerf of all time

ALL TIME

[Furinex]

Yo druids, i'mma let you finish, but rogues had the best nerf of all time

ALL TIME

As a Druid, I'll give this one to them, this shit sucks :(

[Nirgon]

Best sustained dps in game with easiest epic's heart breaking story

[CanadianTSi]

Kanras: Rogue hide will function the same as invis + IVU stacked.

This does not seem to the true...

[SamwiseRed]

can we just get a confirm this is either WAD or broke :P

[maximum]

Isn't there something about the undead in Unrest being special? Some can flee, like monsters.

Anyone tested New Rogue Hide in places like LGuk?

[runlvlzero]

Rogues do use sneak and hide together to move 'invisibly'... in fact better than invisibly in many cases. If you 'hide' without sneaking also, once you move you are unhidden. The order in which you hit sneak and hide are unimportant, except for when you are levitating in some manner. In that case you have to 'sneak' before 'hide' in order for hide to work. You can 'sneak' on the move, but must be still to start to 'hide'.

Many mobs will never see thru hide. Very very few mobs will notice you sneaking when you are behind them. Mobs that see invisible will usually have a 'chance' to see through sneak/hide. This chance is affected by difference in level between you and the mob, and also your skill rating, if not maxed once you get over level 39 or so (as a rogue).

This becomes more and more of a factor in higher levels. For the most part at lower levels something will either see you or not, and it will be consistent. Still, /con mobs to be safe. I know that some mobs that saw through my rogue's sneak/hide at level 50, don't now see through it when he's level 59. Also, some types of mobs can spawn able to see through sneak/hide, but do not always do so. Goos in City of Mist are one example.

Sneak/hide also renders you invisible to undead in most cases. /Con is your friend to find out when it doesnt.

You cannot start to sneak and hide underwater, but you can continue to sneak/hide from dry land into the water. Hurts in places like Kedge Keep.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/skills.html?skill=43

Creowatha
Scholar
*

Mobs never had a "see invisible rogues" spell.
__________________

boom /signed

pls fix asap

This is pretty well known in the EQ rogue community. It should never have been patched to be a simple Invis + ITU. Very unclassic fix from "shroud of stealth" mode.

[heartbrand]

Please move to resolved, it's working as intended

[Classic]

Please move to resolved, it's working as intended

Oh I see your on the staff now. I invite you to go read http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/index.php

Come back and tell me it's working as intended.

These devs intend this server to be as close to classic as they can get.

This is less classic than launch for rogues.

[koros]

If rogues are getting seen by regular see invis mobs, something is wrong.

I played a rogue on live from early Kunark forward and could get to places many other classes could not get with invis. Rare see invis mobs of any type could see rogues, and some mob types could always see through hide. Certain zones had a lot of mobs that could see through it... plane of hate/Tov/deep Kael.

Just checked the safehouse for reference and this confirms it:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2855

List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide
Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2852

Forsaken Revanant, Male - undead Magician - They look like male vampires and have normal magic resistance. They also cast a mean damage shield and nasty AE direct damage. Undead magic does work. They drop mage gear. They do not see rogues, but do see normal invis. They have normal aggro range.

I don't play a rogue here, but comeon, this is fundamental stuff...

[NotKringe]

If rogues are getting seen by regular see invis mobs, something is wrong.

I played a rogue on live from early Kunark forward and could get to places many other classes could not get with invis. Rare see invis mobs of any type could see rogues, and some mob types could always see through hide. Certain zones had a lot of mobs that could see through it... plane of hate/Tov/deep Kael.

Just checked the safehouse for reference and this confirms it:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2855

List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide
Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2852

Forsaken Revanant, Male - undead Magician - They look like male vampires and have normal magic resistance. They also cast a mean damage shield and nasty AE direct damage. Undead magic does work. They drop mage gear. They do not see rogues, but do see normal invis. They have normal aggro range.

I don't play a rogue here, but comeon, this is fundamental stuff...


Yes that looks a lot of what seems correct, Nilbog can you please verify this as a source of correct info?

[koros]

Bumping because this is dumb and should be fixed.

[Aquelin]

This is how it should be, according to this thread:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99935

I'm not particuarly a fan of it either, but I am unsure of where to find more evidence to counter the changes.

[Dullah]

Rogues could always go places invis + ivu couldn't take you. I mean, its common knowledge to anyone who played that era and was over the age of like 15. That post above pretty much spot on from what I remember. I didn't play a rogue, but I remember them doing CRs and dragging corpses in seb and sneaking down to our groups past mobs that saw invis. I mean, who doesn't remember when you died in a shitty place having two options, summon corpse or get a rogue to drag it. Obviously that wouldn't have been the case if invis would have served the same as rogue sneak/hide.

[runlvlzero]

This is how it should be, according to this thread:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99935

I'm not particuarly a fan of it either, but I am unsure of where to find more evidence to counter the changes.

That's an oversimplification of things. And is not in fact an accurate representation of how they should be. In my humble and unqualified opinion. See above posts further up the thread as to why. And for proof that different mechanics were always in play for rogue sneak hide.

[Vandy]

From the above safehouse link as well
http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2852


Spite Golem - Shaman, casts SOW and alacrity on nearby mobs, has a pet. Drops Runed Etched armor (shaman), a Runewood Shield (druid) or a shaman shield. I, personally, have never seen one of those shields. Scowls at a sneaking rogue, but does not see them. 100% spell resistant to all but poison/disease based spells.

Scorn Banshee - Warrior, drops Imbrued Platemail Armor (bard) and occasionally Martune Rapier (8/23 +5 str +4 agi if I remember correctly, bard only). Warning: Cons indifferent, but DOES SEE sneaking rogues. Undead (female zombie). Do strong disease.

Loathling Liches - Wizards, see sneaking rogues, usually drop nothing but sometimes a rod of souls - 3 charges drain souls. Undead, spectres.


So in hate the only thing that should see a rogue would be Banshee, Lich, and Maestro.
I think Inny see Invis/ITU but does NOT see rogue hide/sneak

[koros]

If you weren't a rogue and you hid you got normal invis.

If you were a rogue and hid you got better invis. It's possible, although not the way that I recall it, that you needed to sneak at the same time for that to take effect. When I played I'm pretty sure I usually hit them both at once so who knows.

Patch from very early 2000 added IVU to rogue hide but not normal hide. This goes to support my claim that rogue hide was coded innately differently.

I posit that it was probably coded such that each mob that spawned did a check of whether it could not, could, or always did see (normal) invis. If it could/always did a see invis, it probably did a rand and if the result was within a certain range it could see rogues too. This was probably tweaked on a per mob type basis. Kobolds never saw rogue invis. While 25% of the time running through seb I'd encounter a see invis froglok.