Teams - whats better?

[KB_Trader]

3 teams.

Keeps things interesting when it's not just us vs them, even though one team is almost certainly going to be vastly inferior.

Biggest reason for going teams is people get a built in community whom they can work with. You know who your allies are, and whom you are supposed to attack.

FFA attracts a certain kind of crowd, all of which we probably have absorbed up to this point. People don't attack others because they don't want to alienate them as potential allies, or don't want to exploit situations (killing low hp people and what not) because they feel like total assholes. However if those players are on opposing teams it would feel natural to attack them, it's what you're supposed to do.

I think teams have a larger potential playerbase then ffa.

My ***** Danien w/ the good points and shit

[Stasis01]

Even guildmates have been alienated

[SamwiseRed]

Well 24 pages later and not a single workable idea better than my page 3 idea.

i dont remember but i bet it was stupid.

[Gustoo]

Well 24 pages later and not a single workable idea better than my page 3 idea.



On page three did you cite the known fact that rallos was the best eqpvp server by far and teams are not too cool?

[Not_Kazowi]

You think as someone who already knows who he's going to play with. You have to adjust the server to embrace the average joe's who just start playing without anyone else. FFA helps fostering the paranoia where people alienate people from groups and what not because they are potentially (going to join) the enemy.

People who can not handle this server are filtered off by griefing. It is like a natural cleansing method. It sounds terrible but it is the truth.


The last thing I want is to be forced to guild or group with a bunch of clueless fuck ups that still haven't figured out a 15 year old game.

[Faerie]

0 Teams

There are really people who actually enjoy team based PvP? I thought that's what all the new cookie-cutter MMO's have gone to because 90% of the population cannot hack true world PvP combat. Sheesh, now folks are literally BEGGING for it?

Guild politics very often drive end-game experiences and Rallos Zek had it right from the start, just Verant/SOE paid zero attention to the fact that Rallos even existed from beta right on through to retail. The fact that you could death touch almost any INT caster with Ice Comet before PvP spell reduction was just a complete farce and huge lack of foresight from the dev team. Anyway, what i'm trying to say is that people argue and guilds are no different. One simple event can trigger a wave of defections from a poorly lead guild and being locked into preset teams removes all ability to enjoy this completely player-driven aspect of the game.

Blue server has to cry over who engaged a mob first. That just seems ridiculous to me. Whoever is best equipped to take it down should get that chance. We need more PvP population, not another way to divide the community. Different strokes, for different folks.

I agreed with this 100% before server launch. Now though, after having seen the politics here, it really seems that teams would be much more interesting. The politics on RZ (and all the pvp servers) were top-notch, but here they're pretty terrible. Nihilum wins pve, other guilds struggle to form alliances against them but mostly end up just killing each other.

*yawn*

Red99 is stuck in a rut, and it's time to shake things up with teams.

[Caravelle1]

Please please please please have THREE TEAMS

I agree so much with the this guy vs that guy mentality being bad, forcing it into 3 factions solves that. Imagine 3 way fights omg

[KB_Trader]

People who can not handle this server are filtered off by griefing. It is like a natural cleansing method. It sounds terrible but it is the truth.


The last thing I want is to be forced to guild or group with a bunch of clueless fuck ups that still haven't figured out a 15 year old game.

You can still have a guild within your tea, so I don't understand what you're getting at. Also, I don't think this griefing your talking about exists on the level you think it does. For the most part, people are pretty helpful towards new people.

[KB_Trader]

Faerie you realize that you just cant randomly add something like teams to a fully matured server right? Unless they make a SECOND pvp server it aint gunna happen because there will never be a wipe of our current one. You guys really get trolled so easily.


http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1045567&postcount=5

The rumor floating around is that it wasn't intentional and an error so your link doesnt really mean shit.

[Gustoo]

Only way teams would be cool is if they split the existing one 2 ways and we all had to deal. Even thatbwould probably degenerate.

[SamwiseRed]

ames, its not a wipe, shits gone tho.

[runlvlzero]

Yes I have also been converted to this line of thought, however you slice them 3 is good.

[Zihm]

Teams divided in a way that would allow all sides to have each class in their ranks:

2 teams:
Team 1 = Ogres, Halflings, Half-Elves, Barbarians, Humans, Erudites
Team 2 = Trolls, Wood Elves, Gnomes, High Elves, Dwarves, Dark Elves, Iksars

3 teams:
Team 1 = Trolls, Hobbits, Dark Elves, Humans
Team 2 = Iksars, Dwarves, Wood Elves, Barbarians, Erudites
Team 3 = Ogres, Gnomes, High Elves, Half-Elves, Humans

This is just to illustrate, I'm not trying to push this particular set up or anything. I'm sure the same could be done for deities.

[Tradesonred]

You think as someone who already knows who he's going to play with. You have to adjust the server to embrace the average joe's who just start playing without anyone else. FFA helps fostering the paranoia where people alienate people from groups and what not because they are potentially (going to join) the enemy.

Thats why xp loss in pvp was really bad. You had all these premade crews ready to go, one of em Holocaust which a part of that crew found it amusing to deliberately try to make the server a ghost town.

It left no room to breathe for casuals trying to dip their toes in the water to see if they would enjoy the server.

[Faerie]

Faerie you realize that you just cant randomly add something like teams to a fully matured server right?

No, I certainly don't. Why couldn't they? It sounds pretty great to me; Nihilum breaking up, VP loot spread around teams...

[Gustoo]

This is exciting.

[liveitup1216]

Teams divided in a way that would allow all sides to have each class in their ranks:

2 teams:
Team 1 = Ogres, Halflings, Half-Elves, Barbarians, Humans, Erudites
Team 2 = Trolls, Wood Elves, Gnomes, High Elves, Dwarves, Dark Elves, Iksars

3 teams:
Team 1 = Trolls, Hobbits, Dark Elves, Humans
Team 2 = Iksars, Dwarves, Wood Elves, Barbarians, Erudites
Team 3 = Ogres, Gnomes, High Elves, Half-Elves, Humans

This is just to illustrate, I'm not trying to push this particular set up or anything. I'm sure the same could be done for deities.

If they do teams they won't change it based on every team having every class. At least I'd hope they wouldn't, that's dumb.

[SamwiseRed]

Teams divided in a way that would allow all sides to have each class in their ranks:

2 teams:
Team 1 = Ogres, Halflings, Half-Elves, Barbarians, Humans, Erudites
Team 2 = Trolls, Wood Elves, Gnomes, High Elves, Dwarves, Dark Elves, Iksars

3 teams:
Team 1 = Trolls, Hobbits, Dark Elves, Humans
Team 2 = Iksars, Dwarves, Wood Elves, Barbarians, Erudites
Team 3 = Ogres, Gnomes, High Elves, Half-Elves, Humans

This is just to illustrate, I'm not trying to push this particular set up or anything. I'm sure the same could be done for deities.

holy shit i didnt think teams could get any dumber. plz never post again.

[KB_Trader]

holy shit i didnt think teams could get any dumber. plz never post again.

It's actually not a bad spread. It would make territory disputes very interesting having it all jumbled up like that. It also divides up the good evil classes so each team has its own appeal.

What actually makes it stupid? Because it doesn't follow lore? When was the last time anyone on this server paid attention to the fucking lore? Be real here - if we want to fix things it's gonna require some level of innovation.

[kaos057]

Teams divided in a way that would allow all sides to have each class in their ranks:

2 teams:
Team 1 = Ogres, Halflings, Half-Elves, Barbarians, Humans, Erudites
Team 2 = Trolls, Wood Elves, Gnomes, High Elves, Dwarves, Dark Elves, Iksars

3 teams:
Team 1 = Trolls, Hobbits, Dark Elves, Humans
Team 2 = Iksars, Dwarves, Wood Elves, Barbarians, Erudites
Team 3 = Ogres, Gnomes, High Elves, Half-Elves, Humans

This is just to illustrate, I'm not trying to push this particular set up or anything. I'm sure the same could be done for deities.

I want some of whatever you're smokin.

[kaos057]

I think the whole classic eq team system is stupid. Would be better if joining a guild made it so you can't group with or help another another guild unless the two guilds are allies. Guildless people would be neutral and can attack anyone and group with anyone and vice versa.

[Zihm]

Everyone is bitching and moaning about the game being stale, and accusing everyone else of being too "immersed" like it's some kind of insult. Do we really care about lore?

It's a good balance between FFA and teams, because you still get that "I'm not really safe anywhere" feeling while at the same time giving people allies from their first day on the box.

There is also the posibility of item loot on a teams server though. Or are you people looking for an exact mirror of what the classic servers were (as in you'd only accept item loot on a ffa style server modeled after RZ)?

[Sloth]

2 teams would be best for a population this small.

[SamwiseRed]

if you want balance then every guild has to have the same race/class makeup. same levels. same gear, same hardware specs and connection, and same poop socking retard behind the keyboard. quit trying to reinvent the wheel that a dev team already put many hours into creating. if you are gonna do teams do it right. hard-coded and something that makes sense.

[Sloth]

also would play hardcore if a new server with teams or just a wipe occured

[Bazia]

give me back my red shit u ******

[SamwiseRed]

71 people viewing red general

only 52 on blue general

[Aenor]

Please don't turn EQ into WoW by doing two teams. Either mirror a classic ruleset... SZ or VZ/TZ, or stick with no teams. I think no teams works best, but would love to try the original VZ/TZ teams ruleset again, warts and all. Keep it classic or don't have teams. Please, I beg of thee, no WoW PvP.

[Potus]

2 teams is terrible, see: every wow server ever made

[SamwiseRed]

ARZAK will never sign off on this.

He put too much work into making frogloks attack cockatrices in TT

lol busted out laughing.

[Aenor]

Arguments for and against each ruleset:

1. No teams

Eliminates exploitation of immortal healers. Encourages griefing of lowbies.

2. Two teams

There are no arguments in favor of turning EQ into WoW.

3. Sullon Zek

It's classic. However, we all know the evil team has a massive advantage and most of the server will play evil, just like live.

4. Race War

It's classic and was the most popular PvP ruleset in the history of Everquest. It was the only ruleset that was so popular they had to open a second server. All teams are exploitable.

[Faerie]

Arguments for and against each ruleset:

1. No teams

Eliminates exploitation of immortal healers. Encourages griefing of lowbies.

What, a 46 cleric can't immy heal 60s here? :P

2. Two teams

There are no arguments in favor of turning EQ into WoW.

This is true.

3. Sullon Zek

It's classic. However, we all know the evil team has a massive advantage and most of the server will play evil, just like live.

4. Race War

It's classic and was the most popular PvP ruleset in the history of Everquest. It was the only ruleset that was so popular they had to open a second server. All teams are exploitable.

Why do we have to play a classic ruleset anyway? VZ was the greatest server ever, but if it happened here everyone would just x-team :(

Sullon teams with some penalties for evil team imo.

[KB_Trader]

if you want balance then every guild has to have the same race/class makeup. same levels. same gear, same hardware specs and connection, and same poop socking retard behind the keyboard. quit trying to reinvent the wheel that a dev team already put many hours into creating. if you are gonna do teams do it right. hard-coded and something that makes sense.

You keep repeating the same thing over and over. It's not "reinventing the wheel" mixing the teams up. It's a very minor change all things considered. You really haven't presented much of a case for your ideal server considering you basically said, "WELL IT DIDNT WORK BE4 BUT IM PRETTY SURE THIS TIME IT WILL BE DIFFERENT" which isn't very reassuring.

[Blackbilly]

I propose a 3 teams server based on a twist of the Sullon Zek rule set. Since the general consensus is that the evil team would be overpowered/overcrowded why not split them up?

Team Innoruuk:
All dark elves
All trolls
inny worshipping humans

Team Cazic/bertox:
all ogres
all iksar
bertox gnomes
bertox humans
bertox half elf

Team 3 Everyone else.

would the 3rd team be too overpowered after splitting evils? just throwing shit out there what do you guys think?

[Faerie]

I propose a 3 teams server based on a twist of the Sullon Zek rule set. Since the general consensus is that the evil team would be overpowered/overcrowded why not split them up?

Team Innoruuk:
All dark elves
All trolls
inny worshipping humans

Team Cazic/bertox:
all ogres
all iksar
bertox gnomes
bertox humans
bertox half elf

Team 3 Everyone else.

would the 3rd team be too overpowered after splitting evils? just throwing shit out there what do you guys think?

Not a terrible idea, but then I think you'd want neut and good to be separate. And no evils get bards there, what are you gonna do with RZ worshipers?

[runlvlzero]

Arguments for and against each ruleset:
It's classic. However, we all know the evil team has a massive advantage and most of the server will play evil, just like live.

4. Race War

It's classic and was the most popular PvP ruleset in the history of Everquest. It was the only ruleset that was so popular they had to open a second server. All teams are exploitable.

Gonna be exploitation anyway, species war.

[Blackbilly]

Not a terrible idea, but then I think you'd want neut and good to be separate. And no evils get bards there, what are you gonna do with RZ worshipers?


probably limit ogre to cazic, troll to inny and put all other RZ on the 3rd team.
def have to make it so bards can worship evil deity, shouldnt be a problem.

[s1ckness]

cant wait for the wipe.

[liveitup1216]

Honestly what's the massive advantage evils have, ogre stun immunity? A little troll/iksar regen? I think a sullon ruleset here would have a much better life here than live sullon did.

Everyone here already knows everything, having druids for more mobility would be pretty strong over just wizards. Or having ranger/druid trackers instead of just bards. There's way more potential here than the suck of live Sullon Zek.

[Faerie]

Honestly what's the massive advantage evils have, ogre stun immunity? A little troll/iksar regen? I think a sullon ruleset here would have a much better life here than live sullon did.

SKs and necros.

[runlvlzero]

I propose a 3 teams server based on a twist of the Sullon Zek rule set. Since the general consensus is that the evil team would be overpowered/overcrowded why not split them up?

Team Innoruuk:
All dark elves
All trolls
inny worshipping humans

Team Cazic/bertox:
all ogres
all iksar
bertox gnomes
bertox humans
bertox half elf

Team 3 Everyone else.

would the 3rd team be too overpowered after splitting evils? just throwing shit out there what do you guys think?

sounds good, splitting evil would fix a lot of things, evil vs evil, bertox inny, and cazic really dont align themselves anyway.

Or make it 3 evil teams vs 1 good team and 1 neut team. Evil doesn't cooperate like good does.

[Tune]

teams wont work, lets say we had hard coded teams on red RIGHT now. how would that matter.

[SamwiseRed]

teams wont work, lets say we had hard coded teams on red RIGHT now. how would that matter.

its gonna be ok dude.

[Faerie]

teams wont work, lets say we had hard coded teams on red RIGHT now. how would that matter.

Nihilum takes a while to organize themselves on evil team while the other teams compete with them. VP loot spread around teams. Population++

[liveitup1216]

SKs and necros.

Necro's suck here allegedly, and the devs gave good/neutrals a way to summon corpses anyway. What else?

[Stasis01]

It helps people from abandoning their team to the #1 guild - and less paranoia/alienation of new players and alts/guildmates.

Basically just create a more fun environment for casuals/people out of the have's - in theory, who knows how it will actually play out. I do know this box is terrible as it stands for a lot of those community type reasons - it's just too ruthless dudes.

[Caravelle1]

My vote is 3 teams, PLEASE 3 teams

[Faerie]

Necro's suck here allegedly, and the devs gave good/neutrals a way to summon corpses anyway. What else?

It's not that evil team is inherently overpowered, it's just that all the min/maxers roll ogre/troll. Min/maxers tend to be motivated to raid, and raid hard.

[Tune]

Nihilum takes a while to organize themselves on evil team while the other teams compete with them. VP loot spread around teams. Population++

jesus....

[Runya]

Teams blow when half your team is full of fgts......plus theres always one lopsided team........and 3 teams? better find a way to atleast double the pop

[Zihm]

Yeah, type it in bold. It will make up for the fact that you didn't leave a reason, and Sirken will read it anyway.

[liveitup1216]

It's not that evil team is inherently overpowered, it's just that all the min/maxers roll ogre/troll. Min/maxers tend to be motivated to raid, and raid hard.

I know I just meant knowing what we know now I highly doubt troll/ogre is worth giving up the other perks of ranger/druid/pal etc

[Faerie]

I know I just meant knowing what we know now I highly doubt troll/ogre is worth giving up the other perks of ranger/druid/pal etc

Don't underestimate the appeal of Harmtouch :)

[SamwiseRed]

Thakisis, master of pvp, is coming back for wipe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHHB9jdGN_Y

[liveitup1216]

At least we can almost unanimously agree that red wants a wipe.

[Terpuntine]

Maybe, just maybe Sirken will be needing an award for greatest troll thread of the year.

[SamwiseRed]

good troll if so, glad to see there are some gamers in this bitch.

[Bazia]

these threads make me realize how little I've missed the pre wipe red99 since my current break

shit was garbage

[s1ckness]

Population going to be boooming again

[Smedy]

If there's a wipe, i'd prefer some kind of teams, just anything that's different from the current ruleset would be a +

I don't think the vallon zek ruleset was that good though, with darkies having no bards and elfs having no shamans etc.

Sullon Zek had that diety teams ruleset? That sounds better to me, not even knowing if you can attack someone until you do makes it even better O_o

Anyway, just woke up, confused as fuck, where's the official wording on red99's array? Did it die? Did jesus actually come down from the heavens and put a stop to the poopsocking bluebie shit that was going on? Lets start fresh, without amelinda bros

I'll loose a 60 wizard and AoN , ain't giving 2 fucks bros, it's about having fun, the box is dead to anyone outside nihilum as they only logon 4 hours each week to slay dragons.

[Terpuntine]

If there's a wipe, i'd prefer some kind of teams, just anything that's different from the current ruleset would be a +

I don't think the vallon zek ruleset was that good though, with darkies having no bards and elfs having no shamans etc.

Sullon Zek had that diety teams ruleset? That sounds better to me, not even knowing if you can attack someone until you do makes it even better O_o

Anyway, just woke up, confused as fuck, where's the official wording on red99's array? Did it die? Did jesus actually come down from the heavens and put a stop to the poopsocking bluebie shit that was going on? Lets start fresh, without amelinda bros

I'll loose a 60 wizard and AoN , ain't giving 2 fucks bros, it's about having fun, the box is dead to anyone outside nihilum as they only logon 4 hours each week to slay dragons.

Maybe Terp and Smedy will join forces this time? It's what the people want.

[Faerie]

If there's a wipe, i'd prefer some kind of teams, just anything that's different from the current ruleset would be a +

I don't think the vallon zek ruleset was that good though, with darkies having no bards and elfs having no shamans etc.

Sullon Zek had that diety teams ruleset? That sounds better to me, not even knowing if you can attack someone until you do makes it even better O_o

Anyway, just woke up, confused as fuck, where's the official wording on red99's array? Did it die? Did jesus actually come down from the heavens and put a stop to the poopsocking bluebie shit that was going on? Lets start fresh, without amelinda bros

I'll loose a 60 wizard and AoN , ain't giving 2 fucks bros, it's about having fun, the box is dead to anyone outside nihilum as they only logon 4 hours each week to slay dragons.

The wipe rumors are just people trolling, but since Sirken made this thread I'm guessing teams are a very real possibility.

Sullon had a consider system, where different teams would con scowling and stuff. But if I don't get my cool yellow name I'm gonna be mad :mad:

[runlvlzero]

Their not rumors, its really solid speculation. Backed by fact and personal experience with these things.

Accidents do happen.

[Aenor]

Did jesus actually come down from the heavens and put a stop to the poopsocking bluebie shit that was going on? Lets start fresh, without amelinda bros

I'll loose a 60 wizard and AoN , ain't giving 2 fucks bros, it's about having fun.

Pras.

[runlvlzero]

New teams server still inc maybe !

[Banai]

4 teams! Humans, elves, shorties, evils

[Caravelle1]

heres the teams:

humans / iksar
halfling / ogre
gnome / troll
high elf / dark elf
wood elf / gnome
barbarian / half elf

6 teams in total

[Gustoo]

I guess if bards and monks could be other races and barbarians could become clerics than that could be fun??

Teams are so ridiculous haha

[Minch/FureeZeb]

The 'Teams':

The Good Alliance consists of: Erollisi Marr, Mithaniel Marr, Rodcet Nife, Quellious, Tunare
The Evil Alliance consists of: Bertoxxulous, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Rallos Zek
The Neutral Alliance consists of: Brell Serilis, Bristlebane, Karana, Prexus, Solusek Ro, The Tribunal, Veeshan.

no agnostics. where do i donate again?

[Buhbuh]

Didn't read thread, just posting my 2 cents.

I really enjoyed teams on Tallon Zek, but this server is a whole different beast.

Four teams would eliminate, in essence (not sure on actual statistics with races), 25% of the server from the wrath of other folks. That percentage of invulnerable targets would only increase as the number of teams shrink (33% for 3 teams, 50% for 2).

One thing I dislike right now is that PBAoE groups are essentially impossible on this server.

You'd probably run into a lot of invuln healing here as well. It would mix things up in PvP, but with this low of a population it would probably have very little effect. It might be something to consider with Velious. I wouldn't be opposed to a smaller level range, though.

[Smedy]

I realize that wipe is just the committee going haywire over the boards, but if there was one, i'd be fine with it.

I don't think they would add teams now without changing the state of the server, that would just be weird.

[liveitup1216]

The 'Teams':

The Good Alliance consists of: Erollisi Marr, Mithaniel Marr, Rodcet Nife, Quellious, Tunare
The Evil Alliance consists of: Bertoxxulous, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Rallos Zek
The Neutral Alliance consists of: Brell Serilis, Bristlebane, Karana, Prexus, Solusek Ro, The Tribunal, Veeshan.

no agnostics. where do i donate again?

[Lime]

Having played on both Rallos, and Sullon Zek servers, here are some thoughts about Sullon type rulesets.

Obviously the evil race has a huge advantage and would have to be toned down alot, As they have the best races, and best starting zones. Dark elf casters started very close to the ogre/troll cities, making it quite easy for them to group up and take the premier leveling zones with balanced groups. While a high elf cleric has to run to halas to group with his min/maxed warrior. Evils got the min maxed races for tanks, healers, and pure casters right away. Hide is very strong on a new server. And a undergeared troll/ogre warrior/shadowknight vs an undergeared human is a large difference.

Not only are these races min/max races but they also share some of the best starting zones. What really tipped evil besides numbers is that evils also had iksars, which means they started off owning kunark. So while everyone else is fighting each other to get out of the newbie yard to get a chance at getting above level 10, iksars have kunark to themselves, and are most likely higher level than anyone that makes the journey over to kunark to contest them. This is a "HUGE" advantage, as iksar necros/shamans/monks were hitting the 20's very fast and levels are everything on a new server.

When you look at the good/neutral options they are sharing alot of zones with kos people. Barbarians, Erudites, Wood elves, etc.... shared a city with all factions, and gnomes shared with 2. These zones are obviously going to be bloodbaths of people fighting each other while evils are free farming. This gives people incentive to go evil so they can level up without getting griefed, have a higher chance of being in a successfull guild at end game due to a large player base, and teaming up is easier as they own the swamp/sro/southkarana/oasis/kunark pipeline which supports many more people leveling than the good/neutral zones. This is important as I remember finding mobs to kill was near impossible during release week.

The icing on the cake for evil is that once their toons get 50+ they can all get Overthere hammers very easily giving them more mobility and a base zone that the other factions will not be privy too. They will be reliant on having a porter with them. This is very important for melees.

So what we have learned from previous servers is that you cannot split good and neutral teams up. You need to combine these forces to even start to make it even against all the advantages evil has.


Downsides and why the team ruleset has major problems.

Now the downside to team servers is obviously that while dealing with your own faction it is much like a blue server. There is no way to settle a dispute with your own team. Someone on your faction take your camp, talk shit, or train you? Tough luck. Or while your guild is fighting tooth and nail another guild may be farming a zone away and not want to help you. Or while your raid guild is raiding, the enemy starts griefing your lowbies while you are pixel lusting, making a large portion of your team dislike its own faction. If you are leveling up and the top guilds never help you out, you are not going to want to help them out. Enter Crossteaming.

As much as people talk bad about cross teaming, if your only option is to join a Nihilum type guild, then you are going to cross team. There is no way to stop cross teaming due to the nature of everquest raid content. Not able to heal the enemy faction? Thats fine my 8 dps and 4 healers that I bring to the raid from the opposite faction are capable of keeping themselves alive inside your raid. With the added benefit of us being able to kill anyone on your faction that comes to mess with your raid. Obvious downside is if your own faction comes to contest your guild, the 12 players wont be able to fight a full raid of same team players.

Now comes the griefers. I decide to bring a good 3-6 dps group to your raid and follow you around and kill steal your guild. Since raid reward damage is dispersed by group damage this means 1 very good group is able to killsteal 30+ people. Or maybe I just bring a spy to get raid timers. Which you can do nothing about. Or maybe I bring my enchanter and chain strip your charmed pets, and boss mobs, break mezzes, highsun your mobs etc. There is nothing you can do about it except cry to gm's, or cross team yourself and bring your own toons to kill me. This means guilds will have to have some cross teamers to defend against people that come to raids to engage in this kind of behavior. So your 30 evil 5 good raid will have to defend against my 5 evil toons that I bring to mess with your raid. People start leveling another toon on the opposite faction as soon as they get max level. You bring your 6 evil toons to mess up my good group in sebilis? Thats cool we just logged out onto our evil toons and keep farming the same camp.

So now that the ruleset has broken down, you have two options from a staff point of view.

A) A sullon zek type anything goes ruleset. People will be hacking, training, griefing, and competing for the biggest cockbag award. Fansy the famous bard griefs oasis till players commit Sepaku and stop logging in. People cry on forums about 1-2 people wiping entire guilds with trains and pvp immune cross teamers that are breaking mezzes, training, and stripping debuffs, mem blurring, kill stealing, and being cockbags. The hardcore players grief the server until the playerbase hits 70 players and people lose interest.

B) Gm's involved in everything, obviously Gm's have to make calls on things that happens everyday and enforce the rules. Taking action against people's accounts on the daily leads to widespread GM corruption complaints. (For example, Hardcore raid guild rolls up with 12 people and rolls a group of 6 in a dungeon. Hardcore raid guild camps them till they start training/xteaming. Guild of 6 gets reprimanded for rule breaking. The side thats already winning now has even more advantage over the other side.) This leads to onesided server ala current red server.

WoW got around all these problems by instancing all raid content. Obviously thats not an option here. Just imagine trying to do a wow raid with people from your own faction running around trying to fuck it up. It would be a miserable experience for anyone involved except the griefers.

In closing I think a team server would be fun for a small amount of time while the playerbase has its new server critical mass of players ,assuming you can balance the different teams. Eventually it is going to degenerate into a cross team clusterfuck that will be impossible to police, and will turn veteran players off to the ruleset.

[Jepaxis]

Having played on both Rallos, and Sullon Zek servers, here are some thoughts about Sullon type rulesets.

Obviously the evil race has a huge advantage and would have to be toned down alot, As they have the best races, and best starting zones. Dark elf casters started very close to the ogre/troll cities, making it quite easy for them to group up and take the premier leveling zones with balanced groups. While a high elf cleric has to run to halas to group with his min/maxed warrior. Evils got the min maxed races for tanks, healers, and pure casters right away. Hide is very strong on a new server. And a undergeared troll/ogre warrior/shadowknight vs an undergeared human is a large difference.
...
Good reasoned post. Still means my method of handling teams from page 3 is the only workable method.
...
Maybe if you did something like assign players/classes to a team at say 50 and have the server balance out the classes amongst the teams, then things would stay fairly even.

It would be easy to do and keep the server more interesting and balanced. You could even modify the assignment based off which team is dominating in PvP and give the other team(s) a boost by giving them more people on their team to help offset the domination. If the tables turn, the boost goes away or shifts automatically.

Also, your team is your guild, so we don't have people stuck solo and/or in tiny guilds unable to do shit or reason to help their team.
...

[gotrocks]

While I do like sam's idea a lot,


The 'Teams':

The Good Alliance consists of: Erollisi Marr, Mithaniel Marr, Rodcet Nife, Quellious, Tunare
The Evil Alliance consists of: Bertoxxulous, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Rallos Zek
The Neutral Alliance consists of: Brell Serilis, Bristlebane, Karana, Prexus, Solusek Ro, The Tribunal, Veeshan.

no agnostics.


and I do mean I like it a LOT, I think ultimately the server needs to be 0 teams, mostly for the reasons already listed. Things are going to get imbalanced... or other horrific shenanigans like immortal healers. In fact, that all by itself is a bigger problem than the imbalance, since the way sam has the teams laid out should keep things ultimately fairly balanced.

Personally, I'm kind of split, and will put half a vote towards each:

1/2 vote for hard coded teams listed above, with prevention measures put in place for OOR pvp assistance.

1/2 vote for no teams at all like it is now, but include item loot. also, keep level range at +/- 4 levels all the way to 50, then raise it to +/- 8

[Rahkim]

I'd vote 3 teams, Sullon Zek style, minus the legal trains.

The evil team DID have a big advantage early on, due to their population and the location of their cities relative to some important early dungeons (Guk, everything in Lavastorm, etc).

The other teams will be able to eventually put up a fight though, as anyone who played in Black Crown, Black Prophecy, or Tides of Wrath on the original server could tell you. Plenty of my coins (item looted when you killed someone, which could be turned in for a summon corpse potion) came from the top evil team guild. The 1-shot AA abilities given to SKs, necros, and wizards (which were more common on the evil team, as their only porters) and train-locking access to the elemental planes is the only thing that limited the viability of the newt/good guilds on live. The good team actually had the most guilds in post-AoW content when i quit.

There would be a decent amount of raid targets of varying difficulty, able to support multiple mid-high end guilds. Without AAs, and content being eventually locked at Velious, this could develop into a great, competitive server, even with an easier start for the evil team.

[Champion_Standing]

3 teams. Good, Evil and Monks.

[Danien]

Having played on Sullon Zek servers, here are my thoughts about you talking out of your ass;

Having played on both Rallos, and Sullon Zek servers, here are some thoughts about Sullon type rulesets.

Obviously the evil race has a huge advantage and would have to be toned down alot, As they have the best races, and best starting zones. Dark elf casters started very close to the ogre/troll cities, making it quite easy for them to group up and take the premier leveling zones with balanced groups. While a high elf cleric has to run to halas to group with his min/maxed warrior. Evils got the min maxed races for tanks, healers, and pure casters right away. Hide is very strong on a new server. And a undergeared troll/ogre warrior/shadowknight vs an undergeared human is a large difference.

Not only are these races min/max races but they also share some of the best starting zones. What really tipped evil besides numbers is that evils also had iksars, which means they started off owning kunark. So while everyone else is fighting each other to get out of the newbie yard to get a chance at getting above level 10, iksars have kunark to themselves, and are most likely higher level than anyone that makes the journey over to kunark to contest them. This is a "HUGE" advantage, as iksar necros/shamans/monks were hitting the 20's very fast and levels are everything on a new server.


Servers are not gonna be decided by the first 48 hours. Even if they were, the exp penalties for ogre/troll/iksar are not worth the trade off when it comes to leveling early on. It's for min/maxing at a higher level, the benefits early on are negligible. Besides, I'll argue that the kunark zones are not really better for leveling at all (especially early on).


When you look at the good/neutral options they are sharing alot of zones with kos people. Barbarians, Erudites, Wood elves, etc.... shared a city with all factions, and gnomes shared with 2. These zones are obviously going to be bloodbaths of people fighting each other while evils are free farming. This gives people incentive to go evil so they can level up without getting griefed, have a higher chance of being in a successfull guild at end game due to a large player base, and teaming up is easier as they own the swamp/sro/southkarana/oasis/kunark pipeline which supports many more people leveling than the good/neutral zones. This is important as I remember finding mobs to kill was near impossible during release week.


The people who aimed to get ahead did so with the method of severe neckbearding. Once ahead there was little to no pvp, though some factions did inevitably claim different zones to themselves. This lead to little confrontation between random people leveling up and neckbeards. Once the neckbeards on the respective teams had identified their competition battles occurred for zone-control.



The icing on the cake for evil is that once their toons get 50+ they can all get Overthere hammers very easily giving them more mobility and a base zone that the other factions will not be privy too. They will be reliant on having a porter with them. This is very important for melees.


OT-Hammer is nice, no doubt. It's main use is for getting out in spots where it's tough to get out though, such as Planes/Deep Seb/HS. I'll concede this point, it's absolutely an advantage. Nothing says we have to make teams evil/neutral/good though, and even if we do hammers will not be unattainable for other teams.


So what we have learned from previous servers is that you cannot split good and neutral teams up. You need to combine these forces to even start to make it even against all the advantages evil has.


SK's and necros were much stronger on live then they are here. I will however concede the point that it attracts the min/max crow, which generally will determine which team comes up on top. Teams can be adjusted to avoid this though.



Downsides and why the team ruleset has major problems.

Now the downside to team servers is obviously that while dealing with your own faction it is much like a blue server. There is no way to settle a dispute with your own team. Someone on your faction take your camp, talk shit, or train you? Tough luck. Or while your guild is fighting tooth and nail another guild may be farming a zone away and not want to help you. Or while your raid guild is raiding, the enemy starts griefing your lowbies while you are pixel lusting, making a large portion of your team dislike its own faction. If you are leveling up and the top guilds never help you out, you are not going to want to help them out. Enter Crossteaming.


Enter a secondary guild on the team. Is it possible that they help another team? Sure, it is. But the benefits from having "safe zones" for your team cannot be underestimated for a large portion of players. Whether you want to accept it or not, the vast majority of people on pvp-servers did not roam through zones endlessly to fight other people, but rather enjoyed pve coupled with the occasional fight. To attract these people would be in the interest of both play-styles.

There's going to be animosity within the teams, much like there is animosity between people on blue. That does not equal failure though.


As much as people talk bad about cross teaming, if your only option is to join a Nihilum type guild, then you are going to cross team. There is no way to stop cross teaming due to the nature of everquest raid content. Not able to heal the enemy faction? Thats fine my 8 dps and 4 healers that I bring to the raid from the opposite faction are capable of keeping themselves alive inside your raid. With the added benefit of us being able to kill anyone on your faction that comes to mess with your raid. Obvious downside is if your own faction comes to contest your guild, the 12 players wont be able to fight a full raid of same team players.


It may happen. With hardcoded teams it wasn't a huge problem on Sullon (Though I remember it did happen to an extent during Planes of Power), but it was still better then the option of these people simply joining those guilds. It's simply better to have allies on your own team rather then another, for obvious reasons.


Now comes the griefers. I decide to bring a good 3-6 dps group to your raid and follow you around and kill steal your guild. Since raid reward damage is dispersed by group damage this means 1 very good group is able to killsteal 30+ people. Or maybe I just bring a spy to get raid timers. Which you can do nothing about. Or maybe I bring my enchanter and chain strip your charmed pets, and boss mobs, break mezzes, highsun your mobs etc. There is nothing you can do about it except cry to gm's, or cross team yourself and bring your own toons to kill me. This means guilds will have to have some cross teamers to defend against people that come to raids to engage in this kind of behavior. So your 30 evil 5 good raid will have to defend against my 5 evil toons that I bring to mess with your raid. People start leveling another toon on the opposite faction as soon as they get max level. You bring your 6 evil toons to mess up my good group in sebilis? Thats cool we just logged out onto our evil toons and keep farming the same camp.


Policing by GMs coupled with the harsh lvling process by GMs should stop the majority of these problems right in its tracks, much like with training now. Not saying training never happens here, I'm just saying it's not a gigantic problem because people know that even if they only get caught one out of ten times its going to hurt them a lot.


So now that the ruleset has broken down, you have two options from a staff point of view.

A) A sullon zek type anything goes ruleset. People will be hacking, training, griefing, and competing for the biggest cockbag award. Fansy the famous bard griefs oasis till players commit Sepaku and stop logging in. People cry on forums about 1-2 people wiping entire guilds with trains and pvp immune cross teamers that are breaking mezzes, training, and stripping debuffs, mem blurring, kill stealing, and being cockbags. The hardcore players grief the server until the playerbase hits 70 players and people lose interest.

B) Gm's involved in everything, obviously Gm's have to make calls on things that happens everyday and enforce the rules. Taking action against people's accounts on the daily leads to widespread GM corruption complaints. (For example, Hardcore raid guild rolls up with 12 people and rolls a group of 6 in a dungeon. Hardcore raid guild camps them till they start training/xteaming. Guild of 6 gets reprimanded for rule breaking. The side thats already winning now has even more advantage over the other side.) This leads to onesided server ala current red server.

WoW got around all these problems by instancing all raid content. Obviously thats not an option here. Just imagine trying to do a wow raid with people from your own faction running around trying to fuck it up. It would be a miserable experience for anyone involved except the griefers.

In closing I think a team server would be fun for a small amount of time while the playerbase has its new server critical mass of players ,assuming you can balance the different teams. Eventually it is going to degenerate into a cross team clusterfuck that will be impossible to police, and will turn veteran players off to the ruleset.

In closing I'll be the first to admit that team-servers require more GM oversight, but it's worth the gains.

[Technique]

At least [the most vocal of the non-factors, have-nots, and otherwise clueless forum warriors] can almost unanimously agree that red wants a wipe.FTFY

[big league chew]

0 teams cause im not a crybaby

[Junkman]

300ish? not to many and half never make it past 20, also screw teams keep it real FFA

[big league chew]

teams exist so weak players have that hard-coded crew that can never betray them

you all probably DO need that actually

pathetic imo, FFA or nothin

[Herb9]

SZ Style! 3 teams and NO RULES, everyone above level 6 is in PvP range. Plus up to 2boxing. Hardcoded teams, no cross healing/buffing, no cross grouping. Fix resists.

I'd return to dominate again under these conditions.

[Kohedron]

I'd say it should be the same as live, just for consistency's sake.

I just wouldn't want it to be two, because I feel like it's too much just THE POWERS OF GOOD VERSUS THE FORCES OF EVIL! With 3 or more teams, we have more options for attacking and more blood will spill

[HappyTr33z]

Roleplaying teams would be the best, the number of teams it turns out to be doesn't matter to me. I would just prefer the factions that are teamed would be lore-appropriate teams.

But then again, I'm just happy with any form of teams period. I hope this means there was a server wipe/ruleset change :D


PRAS SIRKEN!

[Sektor]

SZ style, would be loads of fun.

[RoguePhantom]

I hope this gets read, as I think the teams aspect is the most important to any PvP server. Specially one that will rely on LOW numbers.

FFA PvP only works when there is a large population. Red does not have that. In the beginning it did and live was good, but numbers slowly dwindled, and in order to regain those numbers, the FFA aspect needs to change.

FFA gives too much power to 'Internet Toughguys' who like rolling around at level 20 with Rogue epic's screwing with actual new people. Teams, with SZ rules, negates those fools, since you can bring in a high level and wipe them out for screwing with your team.

Teams allow people to gather in closer area's and promote grouping and leveling together. I can't tell you how many friends were made because Neutrals could only group in HHK or Crystal Caverns. Also, it promotes PvP. Since as an Evil or Good, you know where the other teams are to go screw with them. Currently, people whine about 'never finding PvP.'

As for what teams SHOULD be and what the ruleset is... that is up to the Devs, but I always liked the Sullon Zek style.
Teams lets you have a wider range of PvP. No OOR healing.
SZ had the limits of Diety. Necro/SK vs Druid/Paladins/Rangers. You don't need to have anything other than that. Evil was limited to Bard Track.

However, the only thing that makes teams WORK... Hard coding. No buffing, grouping, etc. Teams are there for a reason.

[kaos057]

Actually I think teams would be worse on low population servers. There's not a lot of pvp as it is and if you now have to find someone of the opposite team, there will be less. Not only that but it would be completely unbalanced.

I still say it should be each guild is its own team and allow guilds to be allies of each other.

[Slathar]

Ill keep level 4 clerics camped at every classic boss and give the info to Cast Dacbane and any other legend if we do SZ rules

[Slathar]

Grief so hard shits cray

[Lokinis]

The only way teams will work is if you start off with near even numbers. If nihilum and classic roll 1 team. GG. Not saying that will happen just saying it's a possibility. it would literally have to be, Nihilium team A. Classic Team B. and <other large guild name> Team C. (only other team i could think of is Heresey+Flowers but they don't raid currently).

Nihilum will roll what ever race/class combo keeps them together..half of them don't give a crap what class they play. They just want the pixels. Half of nihilium wouldn't come back immediatly. They would require nizzar and crew to plvl up accounts then they would come back.
But all that is assuming wipe is going to actually happen (wich it won't)

Implementing teams right now. would literally split the entire population. and the ones with the most numbers will end up winning for a month or so. till nihlium crew picks a side and starts powerleveling up bluebies agian.

New server with teams would actually be interesting. Nizzar and crew could still free farm r99 all they want..it would turn into a solo server.. The new server would have to be watched over and GM'd over to keep things "even" but in the end it will end up with a zerg and crossteaming. As everyone has already stated

My personal feelings. I always enjoyed Sullon rules. 3 teams no pvp boundries. and pvp rewards. Item loot was easily avoided by bagging all your shit. (basically if you got jumped you bag and die) Wizards reigned supreme with the 2 nuke shots and would be rich as fck. Rogues to a smaller extent catching people sitting and disc BS. Beyond that mass pvp was fun but it was done naked.

[heartbrand]

There's so many incredibly easy things to fix on red that don't involve archaic teams being implemented that limit the number of pvp targets and actually help guilds like nihilum even more (teams limit the amount of people you can recruit against a guild like nihilum)

[FoxxHound]

4 teams + iksarrr.

[SamwiseRed]

lol at teams helping nilly

[Sirken]

You guys are so cute.

[Nirgon]

1 team - evil.

Cross teaming options will provide PvP, maybe

[heartbrand]

lol at teams helping nilly

All of nihilum would roll the same team (or 75-80% whatever). Everyone else will roll whatever team they feel like choosing and are basically "stuck" on that team. The huge number advantage one organized guild like nihilum would have over multiple fractured guilds across 2, 3 or 4 teams would be huge and insurmountable unless this teams server brought hundreds and hundreds of permanent players.

[Lokinis]

essentially it would samewise. and then even if it didnt. they would quickly lose bluebies and become obsolete...then what? who do we kill then?

[RoguePhantom]

There's so many incredibly easy things to fix on red that don't involve archaic teams being implemented that limit the number of pvp targets and actually help guilds like nihilum even more (teams limit the amount of people you can recruit against a guild like nihilum)

Just like Status Quo or Tides of Wrath never competed with Hate/Ruin.

Or Black Prophecy never got raid targets.

More of your Brilliant Law Mind at work...

[heartbrand]

Just like Status Quo or Tides of Wrath never competed with Hate/Ruin.

Or Black Prophecy never got raid targets.

More of your Brilliant Law Mind at work...

O man live servers incredibly comparable to red99 with EQ then being a modern MMO, thousands of players, a subscription based game with 6 month content releases, ya def a good comparison this guy has it figured out bros.

















Lol newp

[Nirgon]

I'm making an iksar monk or dark elf cleric on the teams server. I plan to get the most pvp.

[Nizzarr]

Nihilum would prosper well in a 3-team environment, we could defend lowbies all the time. Tune would rape people instead of camping sabertooths hide.

People would love us and we'd dominate the raiding scene. Not sure why our team wouldnt help us. I think our goal would be to make everyone reroll our team so we'd be blue server #2 without high elves/halflings/wood elves/barbarians. I fucking hate high elves.

[STILLnotMORNIN]

There's so many incredibly easy things to fix on red that don't involve archaic teams being implemented that limit the number of pvp targets and actually help guilds like nihilum even more (teams limit the amount of people you can recruit against a guild like nihilum)

This dude is pretending to be concerned about the # of pvp targets to be had but chose to ally himself with the guild that makes up the majority of the server.

[gtg489p]

3 team. Sullon and DAOC had it right. They were the best MMO pvp ever seen.

[Faerie]

Nihilum would prosper well in a 3-team environment, we could defend lowbies all the time. Tune would rape people instead of camping sabertooths hide.

People would love us and we'd dominate the raiding scene. Not sure why our team wouldnt help us. I think our goal would be to make everyone reroll our team so we'd be blue server #2 without high elves/halflings/wood elves/barbarians. I fucking hate high elves.

I would hope that some of your members have a competitive spirit, and would stay on their neutral/good teams to fight their former guildmates.

[heartbrand]

Nihilum would prosper well in a 3-team environment, we could defend lowbies all the time. Tune would rape people instead of camping sabertooths hide.

People would love us and we'd dominate the raiding scene. Not sure why our team wouldnt help us. I think our goal would be to make everyone reroll our team so we'd be blue server #2 without high elves/halflings/wood elves/barbarians. I fucking hate high elves.

I agree fuck Arzak duke

[Nizzarr]

I would hope that some of your members have a competitive spirit, and would stay on their neutral/good teams to fight their former guildmates.

there, its starting already. Pleas of pity.

[Faerie]

there, its starting already. Pleas of pity.

I don't pity you.

[Agatha]

I don't pity you.

I despise you!

[HappyTr33z]

there, its starting already. Pleas of pity.
this post is oozing with mouthbreather smugness. I picture you as JP from Grandma's Boy IRL, lol.

[HippoNipple]

There's so many incredibly easy things to fix on red that don't involve archaic teams being implemented that limit the number of pvp targets and actually help guilds like nihilum even more (teams limit the amount of people you can recruit against a guild like nihilum)

On this server Nihilum seems to recruit every player after they have reached 50+. Teams would force people to stick with their guild/team instead of taking the easy route. It encourages a team to build instead of losing players left and right because it is an easier route to join the best guild.

I know you can reroll but not everyone has enough time to do that. Some people have one main and stick with it.

[SamwiseRed]

nizzarr gonna roll evil again. ruin will be crushed this time.

[Nirgon]

He's going to get his utilities shut off again if he has to reroll

[Faerie]

Nihilum will be split up by the introduction of teams, and even if they end up all rerolling or purchasing new accounts it will take them time to get back to the point where they are now. A few of their members will probably stick things out on neutral/good teams, and their raid loot will help their teams a bit. Bluebies will be making new characters to get their pvp fix, and they won't all be making evils to join Nihilum. There will also be fewer people joining Nihilum after being part of their competition, because it would require a reroll in many cases.

Nihilum saying that teams would be good for them seems like an attempt to deter the admins from going forward with teams, imo.

[thufir]

3 teams, SZ/DAoC style. Allows for informal alliances that won't have staying power once one team is no longer ascendant, thus constant conflict.

Should be a new server though, not just establishment of a new ruleset on current red99 server. The latter case encourages the kind of chest-bumping crap that's degrading this current thread. Start with vanilla and it'd even attract the "wipe it clean" crowd.

[Stasis01]

It's the standard spin line Faerie "xxx change will benefit Nihilum" - and we're supposed to all be worried because... oh yeah it's a one guild boring box already. They don't want a fun PVP box nostalgic of live back in the day.

They just want easy street PVE in velious like a buncha homos - and this is why with or without a wipe, fucking people need to wipe their vaginas and log back in and put an end to this with Lite/Terp/Agatha/Kilkur/Rexx/Kringe etc etc unite the mutha fucken clans.

Server resets arn't I win buttons - and I assure you most of Nihilum are a buncha little girls surrounded by some talented players.

[Nirgon]

Nihilum will beat the shit out of you even worse with teams.

You think they will just be like okay I can attack this guy in PvP now, can't raid with him anymore?

No.

Worst case scenario some people have to form weird groups, or make healing macros. In the event they are able to code out being able to buff/heal people outside your team, this would only effect healing.

They'd cross team you so hard and see this as an opportunity to power level up chars in AE groups (oh look, can't hit same team anymore). You can't out grind them at this point, nor will the rest of you who are left here, ever. You don't have the asses required to sit in the chairs to do it or the taste for Dr. Pepper to carry you to the promised land, nor will Lord Kringe return to carry you on his strong back and farm you things.

Teams here = Nihilum becomes twice the nightmare PDM ever was because there is a much smaller population to fight back, worse, they have more free time on their hands than your average poop socker with Obama's continued support of neckbearding pixel lust. The checks will come to their mailboxes, your tears will rain, lols will be had over late night hot pocket dinners in Nihilum team speak. You know not what you wish for.

[Elderan]

It's the standard spin line Faerie "xxx change will benefit Nihilum" - and we're supposed to all be worried because... oh yeah it's a one guild boring box already. They don't want a fun PVP box nostalgic of live back in the day.

They just want easy street PVE in velious like a buncha homos - and this is why with or without a wipe, fucking people need to wipe their vaginas and log back in and put an end to this with Lite/Terp/Agatha/Kilkur/Rexx/Kringe etc etc unite the mutha fucken clans.

Server resets arn't I win buttons - and I assure you most of Nihilum are a buncha little girls surrounded by some talented players.

Oh Stasis....

I think you fail to understand the primary skills in which wins boxes, be it pvp or pve.

You for example have one skill. Good pvp player but you lack the other skills to make you a great player.

[Faerie]

It's the standard spin line Faerie "xxx change will benefit Nihilum" - and we're supposed to all be worried because... oh yeah it's a one guild boring box already.

Mhm! And really, Nihilum should feel flattered that they've done so well we're hoping to break them up with teams.

[Nirgon]

Yeah like I said, they're really going to just all turn on each other with teams being implemented. There are hungry pixel mouths to feed, and they will not bite each other just for PvP.

[Elderan]

Nihilum will beat the shit out of you even worse with teams.

You think they will just be like okay I can attack this guy in PvP now, can't raid with him anymore?

No.

Worst case scenario some people have to form weird groups, or make healing macros. In the event they are able to code out being able to buff/heal people outside your team, this would only effect healing.

They'd cross team you so hard and see this as an opportunity to power level up chars in AE groups (oh look, can't hit same team anymore). You can't out grind them at this point, nor will the rest of you who are left here, ever. You don't have the asses required to sit in the chairs to do it or the taste for Dr. Pepper to carry you to the promised land, nor will Lord Kringe return to carry you on his strong back and farm you things.

Teams here = Nihilum becomes twice the nightmare PDM ever was because there is a much smaller population to fight back, worse, they have more free time on their hands than your average poop socker with Obama's continued support of neckbearding pixel lust. The checks will come to their mailboxes, your tears will rain, lols will be had over late night hot pocket dinners in Nihilum team speak. You know not what you wish for.

Chardok AE groups would be so sweet here with the exp bonus...

[Caravelle1]

Fuck it. I'm forming a third guild called neutral. On the neutral team. Who's gonna join my guild??
I'll literally shit on u all.

[Nirgon]

(@Eldermoran Bringer of LeaderBoarz)And you would have them with teams.

[Elderan]

Yeah like I said, they're really going to just all turn on each other with teams being implemented. There are hungry pixel mouths to feed, and they will not bite each other just for PvP.

What is funny is how people claim to not be about PVE loot.. Yet all they want to do is contest Nihilum over bosses so they can get that same loot.

[Nirgon]

I know of who you speak. Those who truly appreciate EQ for its open world mechanics, and implementing a truly classic resist system are few among us.

The few and proud I believe are: Coach Cast, Kringe, Zyrino, Nilbog, Dullah and myself.

The rest want root spam, bags full of fungis and 10 alts in Phara Dar loots. Yuck.

[Stasis01]

People refer to PDM as such a nightmare clearly didn't play TZ, or had their head in the sand.

I keep hearing this reference, but do people know that PDM couldn't level in KC/Seb because of the darks/lights? Do you remember the first VS kill where they had like 30 people guard the entrance of KC after killing most of the lights?

I remember them coming with dark elf clerics and still getting shit stomped in Seb - most of them hit 60 in velious levelling in fucking wakening lands or whatever off those gem rock monsters in the saves low key as fuck - but was the most succesful/strongest raid force.

It wasn't trendy to be PDM at first, and most of the darks had a fairly isolated road.

[Syft]

The 'Teams':

The Good Alliance consists of: Erollisi Marr, Mithaniel Marr, Rodcet Nife, Quellious, Tunare
The Evil Alliance consists of: Bertoxxulous, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Rallos Zek
The Neutral Alliance consists of: Brell Serilis, Bristlebane, Karana, Prexus, Solusek Ro, The Tribunal, Veeshan.

no agnostics. where do i donate again?

Teams will only work if NPC faction works like it did in classic. Guards would aid the person with highest faction and allow you to slay someone in front of them if your faction was higher.

This allowed players to split the map and control zones based on faction.

[Something'Witty]

What I think is best is to make the various tweaks already discussed (tstaffs, resists, bugged spells, etc) and leave everything else the same.

I know there is a group that is calling for a wipe, but I don't think they are the majority, rather a vocal minority who feel that a wipe would favor them and hurt their opponents. Don't give in to the forumquesters!


P.S. I really hope that the original post from Sirken will go down as one of the greatest trolls of all time, getting the forumquest crew all worked up over nothing. Just look at the sheer volume of posts over the last few days. Kind of sad really.

[Stinkum]

i present 3 indisputable facts

fact 1: FFA has always been and always will be the worst and most boring ruleset

fact 2: this server will be ruled by nihilum no matter what ruleset is in place. you can't beat that which has no life ambitions, job, social life, or girlfriend.

fact 3: team-based EQ is fun as hell

[Faerie]

Would be really interesting if they allowed blue transfers (with gear) after implementing teams. Lots of bluebies seem interested in teams pvp, and the fears of Nihilum making the server a one team blue server (which is about where we've been at anyway, pve-wise) could be somewhat alleviated this way. Nihilum goods/neuts wouldn't need to reroll evil if the blue transfers gave us more hope of raid guilds on those teams.

[Nirgon]

Fact 1: yeah this server sure was boring and had no interesting drama or surpirses
Fact 2: Yes this is true now, but it could have been very different.. two times.
Fact 3: It can be with more players and a staff who cracks down hard on x-teaming. (read: more Sirkens, gl finding people who won't abuse the position)

[Rahkim]

My personal feelings. I always enjoyed Sullon rules. 3 teams no pvp boundries. and pvp rewards. Item loot was easily avoided by bagging all your shit. (basically if you got jumped you bag and die) Wizards reigned supreme with the 2 nuke shots and would be rich as fck. Rogues to a smaller extent catching people sitting and disc BS. Beyond that mass pvp was fun but it was done naked.

The PVP reward was a summon corpse potion only available to newts and goods, not all that great. Sullon never had item loot. Tanks and bards dominated PVP, either of which would laugh at a wizard or rogue 1v1 (prior to manaburn). Mass PVP was never done naked after the first couple of weeks.

[Nirgon]

So very few good melees since Holo departure. People think casters are OP even still with broken skean resist rate. SMH.

If only you saw the assist trains on live. Players in zone rapidly plumetted until one bard group and the stragglers on their side remained. Then it was a res battle for zone control.

[Stinkum]

Anyone who played SZ can back me up that 3 teams is terrible,. One of the 3 teams always does nothing every time this ruleset has been replayed in history.

2 teams (good/evil) or bust.

[Elderan]

Two teams

Good vs Evil

Good gets (Druid/Ranger/Paladin) Evil gets (Necro/SK)

[Nirgon]

Evil gets all the people who want to raid

[heartbrand]

I've seen more boxing and exploiting than ever before post Amelinda so not sure why you'd equate Sirken with staff who take a hard stance on things, there aren't even posted rules 1.5 years later.

[Nirgon]

Best solution:

http://khongthe.com/wallpapers/nature/vacation-dreams-230339.jpg

[Instagib]

Evil gets all the people who want to raid

Not trolling but do you even play here? If you don't why do you post so much don't you have another game to play or something?

[Nirgon]

Depends what you mean by here and I won't reveal specifics pal

[Nirgon]

Long story short Instagib, I'm the guy who tries to make sure the retards aren't allowed to have the sharp stick to play with that they so longingly gesture and drool for

[Syft]

Only way it would work:

1. Pop Cap: set anywhere from 75-100 at server launch and increased as server grows, once pop cap is reached for a team, new players can only choose the other team to create a character on.

2. I.P. Exceptions restricted to same team accounts. You got one account that's good than you can't have any evil accounts on your IP exempt list.

Personally I don't care if it's two or three teams each has pro's and con's and most balance issues would be fixed by the rules above being put in place.

[moru]

3 teams that are decided at the ding of lvl 20 or something; When you ding lvl 20 you get assigned a team so that all the teams are getting the same numbers.

Lvl 20 is harsh enough that you dont wanna redo over and over again to get a shot at "the winning" team.

[Nothxu]

I played on Sullon Zek, and it did seem like the good alliance just played at a severe disadvantage. I think you would need to do two races, but besides that, a smiliar rule base system like SZ. It will still end up one guild (nihilum) vs all though, except it would be more hard coded.

2 teams.

Plus, we do not have the population for 3 teams either.

[heartbrand]

who the fuck is going to play a game where a RNG determines if you get to play with your friends or not?

[Kohedron]

As far as the whole "certain teams getting the shaft" deal, maybe something like Planetside could be added where whichever teams have the lower populations have a scaled exp bonus.

Either way sign me up for the weakest team IDGAF

[heartbrand]

Ya id rather make the choice to play w people I dislike just because the numbers are stacked in their favor

Why are you so butt hurt over EverQuest? You come off incredibly mad in every single post. Would you seriously entertain playing here if you had no control over who you got to play with? Spent 19 levels with your crew and then boom skelly to team A hughman to team B you to team C and you'd be yaw yaw np sounds fun? You really think that system makes sense? Can't you ever be objective and engage in legit discourse without turning everything into Nihilum bashing [a guild you happened to be in for close to half a year].

[juicedsixfo]

As far as the whole "certain teams getting the shaft" deal, maybe something like Planetside could be added where whichever teams have the lower populations have a scaled exp bonus.


that kings and bandits server that image and devnoob ran had something like this, it was interesting

[Stasis01]

Allowing you to switch teams defeats the purpose IMO.

[juicedsixfo]

yeah it did, but the bonuses for the smaller sized teams was cool

north team 4 lyfe

[Stinkum]

Got to love people who act like FFA has no downfalls. Teams has it's own too but FFA has many, many more.

[liveitup1216]

Seems the FFA fans are the most angry and toxic people here. Surpriiiiiiise.

[heartbrand]

I think teams are great








With a population of hundreds and hundreds if not low thousands of players. With a max non concurrent playerpool of 600 in the most rosy of scenarios that aren't nearly enough people to make teams work.

[Stinkum]

I think teams are great








With a population of hundreds and hundreds if not low thousands of players. With a max non concurrent playerpool of 600 in the most rosy of scenarios that aren't nearly enough people to make teams work.


the only point you managed to prove is that EQ pvp is fun with a high pop (stating the obvious). high pop PvP being fun is true whether FFA or teams ruleset

as far as the rest of ur post idk why you talk about "making it work" as if FFA has never "worked" on this box

[SamwiseRed]

ffa is the most boring ruleset there is. wow vanilla would have been dumb as fuck had it been ffa. eq pvp was dumb as fuck before the teams servers. this is a fact jack.

[s1ckness]

if opening a new pvp server you should allow 2 boxing for teams pvp

[heartbrand]

If you split 200 concurrent players in half you have a pile of shit. FFA has had trouble here for reasons I've posted, and others have, multiple times that have nothing to do with the ruleset.

[SamwiseRed]

there will be consequences to your choices. people will have to roll on nillys team if they wanna zerg, this will make it easier to identify zerglings. also should the top guild fall there will be no defecting to the next guild without rerolling or starting another guild.

[Stinkum]

ffa is the most boring ruleset there is. wow vanilla would have been dumb as fuck had it been ffa. eq pvp was dumb as fuck before the teams servers. this is a fact jack.

^^^^^^

[Kraftwerk]

What did you mean RNG Heartbrand to decide team fate? Everyone will get to choose from scratch due to the wipe. Duh.

[SamwiseRed]

I will defend black burrow with my rusty shortsword.

[heartbrand]

What did you mean RNG Heartbrand to decide team fate? Everyone will get to choose from scratch due to the wipe. Duh.

It was a response to Moru suggestion that @ level 20 the system randomly place you on one of 3 teams.

[KB_Trader]

Has there been any official update yet? When can I expect my 3 team server with 2 boxing?

[Kohedron]

I will defend black burrow with my rusty shortsword.
dat trusty rusty

[Ghordo]

0 teams given the low population,

Dam KB lmao that Quote.

[Gustoo]

WTB silence to 2 box requests. I hate 2 boxing and I hate seeing 2 boxers. I hate /telling some clown and he responds 4 minutes later because he wasn't looking at that screen. Terrible game play ruins game worst ever joke.

[Gustoo]

But I still hate having to play 2 fuckin toons because everyone else is. Even if a 2 boxxer was willing to group they suck ass in a group because response time to any screw ups is terrible. Game isn't meant to be played that way. I'm all for 2 boxxing if it costs 10 dollars a month per account so I can laugh at folks willing to pay that much each month.

[s1ckness]

ffa is the most boring ruleset there is. wow vanilla would have been dumb as fuck had it been ffa. eq pvp was dumb as fuck before the teams servers. this is a fact jack.

i quit wow cuz there wasnt FFA pvp


sometimes u wanna kill that little faggot on your side

[Faerie]

The random number generated teams is a strange idea, but I don't see why limiting character creation on the biggest team wouldn't be a viable option.

What might also help would be disallowing account trading (even for plat/in game items) and go after offenders like they do RMT.

[heartbrand]

i quit wow cuz there wasnt FFA pvp


sometimes u wanna kill that little faggot on your side

+1. Really annoying in WoW to see fags on ur side snipe mobs and shit from u with u being powerless 2 do anything

[KB_Trader]

But I still hate having to play 2 fuckin toons because everyone else is. Even if a 2 boxxer was willing to group they suck ass in a group because response time to any screw ups is terrible. Game isn't meant to be played that way. I'm all for 2 boxxing if it costs 10 dollars a month per account so I can laugh at folks willing to pay that much each month.

No one is forcing you to 2 box. You also sound like a little bitch. Hurr i can't figure out how to alt tab so dont let anyone do it.

[Gustoo]

I didn't even think about that even further retardedly broken aspect of the completely absurd (from an RP point of view) idea of teams PVP.

One of the most important benefits of PVP is being able to kill people over camps. Or having to be cool to yer neighbor because otherwise you are going to get yer ass killed when yer trying to PVE.

I think that pretty much ends the thread. Thanks Sirken. We figured it out.

[Gustoo]

You smell like dookie trader. I have monitors all over the place, I'd just rather not be playing two characters on a role playing game at the same time.

[Gustoo]

Its just my immersion tho dude. I can't be fully immersed in being a halfling cleric and an ogre warrior at the same time. And ya I know that isn't a powerful duo but its a manly one and thats what I'd probably do.

[Blackbilly]

You guys are so cute.

sirkdawg, whats the deal? hope its not all a troll~

[KB_Trader]

Its just my immersion tho dude. I can't be fully immersed in being a halfling cleric and an ogre warrior at the same time. And ya I know that isn't a powerful duo but its a manly one and thats what I'd probably do.

You're retarded.

[Gustoo]

You must be some kind of super genius split personality guy if you can seriously get down to business as an ogre and a halfling at the same time. Its just not something I can really pull off mentally. I'm more of a method actor when I play and I just can't switch that fast and keep it natural.

[Lokinis]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=116620&page=2

confirmation of no wipe by zade, no teams either

[Gustoo]

Also when is the BOTB RP Acting tournament gunna come to pvp99?

[Gustoo]

Sorry man I get that I'm just trying to level up my FQ toon so I don't get PVP'd as much.

[Runya]

There's so many incredibly easy things to fix on red that don't involve archaic teams being implemented that limit the number of pvp targets and actually help guilds like nihilum even more (teams limit the amount of people you can recruit against a guild like nihilum)

Usually i dont agree with Hb,but anyone who thinks teams would work has no idea what they are talking about.See SZ/swtor for details.Inbalanced from the begining......anyone who thought sz had competitive pvp prolly was killing green people all day.I quit once i hit 55 and realized my team was full of fgts and evil already had a 2:1 ratio over the next highest pop team.......all i saw on sz was bluebies.....now let me guess our 125 man pop is gonna balance out with 3 teams.....maybe 2 could work.......but we already have that Nihi vs not nihi

[Gustoo]

You said it dude. Teams are someones bad blue dream.

[Bantam 1]

Not trolling but do you even play here? If you don't why do you post so much don't you have another game to play or something?

I was around for SZ....

Evil draws more people by far historically (SZ was MOSTLY evil). Also 2 of the weaker (perception wise anyhow) are paladins and rangers....

So why choose good?

So lets say raid guild xyz says lets play on this server.... where you think they are going?

[Runya]

What guild vs guild with a max of 40ish players too hard to code? If your not in the same guild no beneficial spells can be casted.If you leave a guild it takes a full week to be able to join another.Will stop the zerg to an extent im sure two guilds could be pals and help eachother i guess......but atleast it would put a damper on that 70 man bullshit

[Runya]

I was around for SZ....

Evil draws more people by far historically (SZ was MOSTLY evil). Also 2 of the weaker (perception wise anyhow) are paladins and rangers....

So why choose good?

So lets say raid guild xyz says lets play on this server.... where you think they are going?

Same shit with swtor......the imp to repub ration was sad.......was evil vs evil in bgs all day since goods didnt even have enuff to que most times

[Runya]

i quit wow cuz there wasnt FFA pvp


sometimes u wanna kill that little faggot on your side

Most times people abuse that and become bigger faggots....same side trains were rampant~

[Gustoo]

Yup. Teams are broken even in a new game with active full time paid developers. Forget about it.

[s1ckness]

would be nice to see a server go past velious. maybe up to Planes of Power?

[melkortshea]

3 Teams is best for a very good reason...

If you have two teams there is always the chance that one team can completely dominate. If you have 3 teams it allows for two of the weaker teams to temporarily form an alliance to dethrone the dominate team.

This always worked well in DAOC and if you look at at the other 2 team games often there was constant balance issues that would damage long term morale of one weaker team thus fueling bandwagoners to reroll on the more powerful team. This would then just make the issue worse.

I say go with Good, Evil and Neutral. Just be sure to not allow X-Team heals and such because that was the inherent flaw with servers such as Talon Zek.

[Runya]

I love PoP just not those instaclick books nigs ran too

[s1ckness]

I love PoP just not those instaclick books nigs ran too

make PoK a pvp zone

nexus and bazaar should be only safe zones for new players to use the wiz spires

[Runya]

3 Teams is best for a very good reason...

If you have two teams there is always the chance that one team can completely dominate. If you have 3 teams it allows for two of the weaker teams to temporarily form an alliance to dethrone the dominate team.

This always worked well in DAOC and if you look at at the other 2 team games often there was constant balance issues that would damage long term morale of one weaker team thus fueling bandwagoners to reroll on the more powerful team. This would then just make the issue worse.

I say go with Good, Evil and Neutral. Just be sure to not allow X-Team heals and such because that was the inherent flaw with servers such as Talon Zek.

If you have 3 teams theres a chance one team will Dominate even further since the other 2 teams will be weak.......spreading the pop too thin......i remember sz newts/goods rolling evil.....once one or two teams are shit stomped they stop logging in making the already jacked team more powerful....anyone have the live ratio on sz? Felt so bad for the good team......in fact so did the evil team and so they rampant crossteamed while kills the idea of teams itself

[Gustoo]

the only thing I could see staff doing is making some custom post velious content once velious has been out for like 2 years here.

[Runya]

What about altergate? wasnt that a team server? i see they back on server list but locked.......how did they fair?

[heartbrand]

why does every1 cry about the books in PoP? all the high level shit was taking place in the actual PoP zones, not in fucking nektulos or some shit where books were clickable. I don't give a fuck if you can AFK in PoK all night long, when it's time to raid or group you gotta zone into somewhere where you can be killed. If the issue is buffing and shit in PoK then just prevent spells from being cast there or fuck it make it PvP flagged w/e.

[Stinkum]

To all the "What if ___" people.

Nihilum already no-life'd their way to the top. No matter what ruleset you put in, you can't stop a neckbeard from giving up his worldly ambitions for pixels. These creatures have no ambitions IRL, no desire for the company of the fairer sex, nor employment, or a social life.

I can't stress enough that their entire lives revolve around EQ. They have each geared out their 7th and 8th level 60 alts with VP gear by now, and they will keep doing this until they have 18 EQemu accounts full of useless dragon armor.

The server can't possibly get any worse than it is right now.

Wipe it, delete their armor on stream in front of them, and laugh merily.

[nilbog]

Has any server done region-based teams?

example 2 teams.. this is a rough example, plz excuse bad photoshop

http://i41.tinypic.com/23l12ck.jpg

West side:
Erudites
Barbarians
Humans - Qeynos
Half Elves - Qeynos
Dark Elves
Ogres

East side:
High Elves
Gnomes
Dwarves
Trolls
Wood Elves
Half Elves - Kelethin
Iksar

Freeport - Point of contention. Humans spawning here can ally to either side.(?)

Just curious how this would play out.

[Faerie]

Has any server done region-based teams?

example 2 teams.. this is a rough example, plz excuse bad photoshop

http://i41.tinypic.com/23l12ck.jpg

West side:
Erudites
Barbarians
Humans - Qeynos
Half Elves - Qeynos
Dark Elves
Ogres

East side:
High Elves
Gnomes
Dwarves
Trolls
Wood Elves
Half Elves - Kelethin
Iksar

Freeport - Point of contention. Humans spawning here can ally to either side.(?)

Just curious how this would play out.

Maybe an emu server has tried it at some point, but I doubt it. But this makes absolutely no RP sense.

EDIT: And this looks too much like EQ2.

[Kohedron]

Has any server done region-based teams?

example 2 teams.. this is a rough example, plz excuse bad photoshop

http://i41.tinypic.com/23l12ck.jpg

West side:
Erudites
Barbarians
Humans - Qeynos
Half Elves - Qeynos
Dark Elves
Ogres

East side:
High Elves
Gnomes
Dwarves
Trolls
Wood Elves
Half Elves - Kelethin
Iksar

Freeport - Point of contention. Humans spawning here can ally to either side.(?)

Just curious how this would play out.
I like it.. Although maybe it could be Erud/Antonica vs Faydwer/Cabilis.

Or even just Antonica vs everyone else

[nilbog]

But this makes absolutely no RP sense.

EDIT: And this looks too much like EQ2.

Yeah, east v. west side not very roleplay.. but along those lines, I could type up 5 paragraphs about how the continental divide amongst these races has made them regionally love each other.

Not sure about the eq2 reference. I beta tested it for 2 weeks then quit. Never played it live.

I like it.. Although maybe it could be Erud/Antonica vs Faydwer/Cabilis.

Or even just Antonica vs everyone else

Did not want to put ogres and trolls on the same team.


Mostly I was just curious if it had ever been considered.

[nilbog]

Diety?

That leads to stupid shit like good side not having necromancers. It was in mind when I was drawing the map.

[Faerie]

Those teams actually look pretty balanced, with red side getting trolls and iksar. But I would be completely against teams if they go against the lore as much as that.

SZ teams are pretty well balanced. Even more so if good/neutral are combined into one team, making it a 2 team server. One of my favorite aspects about VZ teams were the lacking classes. Elf team didn't accomplish much raid-wise, but we did take down Nagafen and I was proud. Dark team there raided a considerable amount without trackers or bards. Much respect for the darkies.

[Faerie]

That leads to stupid shit like good side not having necromancers. It was in mind when I was drawing the map.

Maybe most players would disagree with me, but I imposed the elf-only restrictions on myself (as did a couple other guilds) and never grouped with monk, shaman, SK or necro until I was 55+ and it never bothered me. Just my opinion, but game lore is more important than team balance. Especially when SZ teams come so close to being balanced anyway.

[Gustoo]

I have never seen it mentioned.

I still think freeport vs neriak or freeport vs rivervale makes the most sense since neither team is geographically more isolated from the good stuff than the other.

Any team where ogres are only on one team I think should have frontal stun removed. Ogre still is the best tank in that case but not WAY the best.

[Stinkum]

@faerie nobody cares/reads your posts

@nilbog's that blueprint actually looks really good dude

[Faerie]

And the EQ2 thing was an east vs. west thing; Freeport and Qeynos were the starting cities, with Qeynos being good team and Freeport being evil.

[Nizzarr]

This does not really promote much pvp at all. I guess grobb vs oggok but thats about it.

Iksars having a whole continent for themselves is a little bit OP

[Auchae]

I like it. It's a good balance. Would roll a troll and fight for the horde.. I mean the east.

Antonica really does look like an Arathi Basin 5 cap though at first glance.

[Nirgon]

Has any server done region-based teams?

example 2 teams.. this is a rough example, plz excuse bad photoshop

http://i41.tinypic.com/23l12ck.jpg

West side:
Erudites
Barbarians
Humans - Qeynos
Half Elves - Qeynos
Dark Elves
Ogres

East side:
High Elves
Gnomes
Dwarves
Trolls
Wood Elves
Half Elves - Kelethin
Iksar

Freeport - Point of contention. Humans spawning here can ally to either side.(?)

Just curious how this would play out.


So NPCs won't let you in each other's towns on the same team? Ehhh, I dunno.

[Faerie]

This does not really promote much pvp at all. I guess grobb vs oggok but thats about it.

Iksars having a whole continent for themselves is a little bit OP

It seems to me that nilbog is looking for a way to limit pvp at the lower levels, allowing for safer exp while people establish themselves. It's a pretty good idea with a ruthless bunch like we have here. Safe exp at the lower levels would do wonders for population on a new server.

[Gustoo]

Yeah personally Id be more for some fully customized system with two start cities on antonica so there is a lot of focus early on and battle for faydwer than battle for lguk.

Edited post because I re read..

[nilbog]

Really just a question..

Was not sure if anyone had ever considered region-based pvp.

The minutiae of details wasn't the point.. :T That stuff is easily resolved.

[Nirgon]

I mean yeah its a good idea. The problem of the whole thing is really the draw to be an evil race on a pvp server and that the evil team boasts Ogres :).

If you did something like make all warriors immune to frontal stun like ogres on this server, you could probably go with a region based setup. Happy to theorycraft if you have any serious interests in doing this.

[Faerie]

Really just a question..

Was not sure if anyone had ever considered region-based pvp.

The minutiae of details wasn't the point.. :T That stuff is easily resolved.

It's fun to throw ideas around, but I don't think I could bring myself to play on a teams server where elves would associate themselves with evil races.

[Gustoo]

No stun immunity, and making kick have stun effect like slam (getting kicked in balls stuns you just like getting hit in face with a forearm)

Thatd work for racial imbalance.

[Gustoo]

And for Faerie , since this server is completely custom it would have different lore.

If elves were allied with trolls it would be because the trolls believe they saw a strong omen from CT and have become at odds with the other darkies.

and because the elves were being over run, they have formed an uneasy alliance with the trolls that all have a new spirit of enlightenment. It would be the troll renaissance or something.

[Samoht]

point ears:
gnomes
wood elfs
high elfs
half elfs
dark elfs
trolls

vs not pointy ears
humans
barbs
erudites
dorfs
ogres
iksar
halfling

[Faerie]

Im role playing

/bye

I'm sorry, but the region-based teams nilbog is asking about are completely lacking in romance. This is a fantasy roleplaying game, right? :P

[Gustoo]

point ears:
gnomes
wood elfs
high elfs
half elfs
dark elfs
trolls

vs not pointy ears
humans
barbs
erudites
dorfs
ogres
iksar
halfling

this guy is on to something. I like that idea just because of how readily it divides. Pointy ears are kinda weak though.

[Stinkum]

-1 Faerie pop if implemented +1 Stinkum pop if implemented

win/win

[Seary]

I feel bad for anyone like Checkraise or Nizzar who has over 200 days /played in aggregate on red99...

1) if the server is indeed wiped, bye bye pixels
2) if the server isn't wiped, you still wasted so...so...so much of your youth that you will never get back.

[Nirgon]

Kick stuns are 55+ for warriors.

Ogres and trolls trade their power for faction, increased food consumption and having a hard time in tight areas.

Similarly the small races trade having more mana (control for hybrids usually, pacify/root/fear/snare etc) for doing less physical damage.

[nilbog]

It's fun to throw ideas around, but I don't think I could bring myself to play on a server where elves would associate themselves with evil races.

I played some dungeons and dragons less than 3 weeks ago. :P If words can change things, that's easily done. It would be easier to explain the above than traveling to the moon to fight nagas alongside mooncats. (sorry luclin fans)

I had more of an overall world in mind.. with separating natural teams. While I'm at it..

Still timeline-based.
Item loot until Kunark released
Freeport (Red Team) until Kunark released
Freeport contested when Iksars available/Kunark release.
Team languages - aside from humans, can't understand other races not aligned to your team

Hate on me. Doesn't have to be us that makes it; I'm just curious. I don't play eq, and it doesn't look like I will until I'm done with p99.

[Hailto]

What are the odds of the server actually being wiped clean? I would play red in a heart beat if there was a chance at a fresh start. Otherwise not interested.

[Seary]

Nilbog, if you even consider relaunching a new red99 (which should have been done a year ago), please remove whatever changes Null put forth into the resist system, it's a joke. Also, return bard selos to breaking rooting (classic implementation), his idea of changing stuff around to fit whatever unclassic idea hes had in his mind were awful.

[Faerie]

I played some dungeons and dragons less than 3 weeks ago. :P If words can change things, that's easily done. It would be easier to explain the above than traveling to the moon to fight nagas alongside mooncats. (sorry luclin fans)

I had more of an overall world in mind.. with separating natural teams. While I'm at it..

Still timeline-based.
Item loot until Kunark released
Freeport (Red Team) until Kunark released
Freeport contested when Iksars available/Kunark release.
Team languages - aside from humans, can't understand other races not aligned to your team

Hate on me. Doesn't have to be us that makes it; I'm just curious. I don't play eq, and it doesn't look like I will until I'm done with p99.

Don't have to hate to disagree, and I feel that anyone not into the RP side of things at least a little bit should play on blue.

Team languages - aside from humans, can't understand other races not aligned to your team

The worst idea you posted, imo. Don't limit the ways people can interact with one another; pvp is great partly because of the RP trashtalk opportunities. Could give each team a unique language that the other can't understand, but at least allow communication with the enemy. This topped my list for reasons I disliked WoW.

[HappyTr33z]

Just make it to where you can learn the language of the other races, but everyone starts knowing the languages of their team. No common tongue.

[Nirgon]

Null didn't get to touch Kunark, it launched "as is". He didn't have to change things like mez mechanics because players couldn't go over lvl 50 then.

Keep item loot in through Velious for sure, but only first after making resists "more classic" and I'd be happy to assist in that testing as I did not log into this server's beta and provide feedback. I'm not suggesting they be PERFECT but I do have suggestions that make things much closer to classic without having the same back lash as, say, changing rogue sneak/hide.

Let's not jump the gun making a new server before some of the existing issues are pinned down first.

[nilbog]

Not making a new server. I was just asking if anyone ever considered region-based pvp.

Asked a question; learned my lesson.

Carry on.

[Stinkum]

no come back

[Faerie]

We love you nilbog, and if we scared you off it's only because we all love EQ so much :)

[Nirgon]

Came across as hinting at a new server, people actually got interested, generated discussion on what would balance server and what we'd like to see first.

smh

[melkortshea]

In some Fantasy lore Ogres are good or were once good. maybe giving Trolls to the Evil races and Ogres to the good would be enough to balance a little.

[Seary]

Not making a new server. I was just asking if anyone ever considered region-based pvp.

Asked a question; learned my lesson.

Carry on.

http://xd6.xanga.com/78ef930226730279424330/m222591148.Gif

[Nirgon]

Boomba the Big is pals with Freeport

[Faerie]

Came across as hinting at a new server, people actually got interested, generated discussion on what would balance server and what we'd like to see first.

smh

I'm still hoping they implement teams on red. Refuse to allow Zade to crush my dreams :P

[HippoNipple]

Role playing aside Nilbog's east vs west does make for fair teams. Ogre on one side, best rogue/monk and troll as a close second to ogre on the other side.

One negative is that east vs west would destroy low level pvp.

The most powerful race is ogre. Then you have the runner ups - trolls/barbarians/iksar. Split those up and come up with some teams that promote lower level pvp as well. Humans on both sides will provide classes that are needed on both sides. Elfs, gnomes, dwarfs, erudites, haflings, who cares split them up by area so zones are contested.

I for one don't like the religion based system because it gets messy with available classes.

Lore will suffer but not many care.

[Potus]

Ogres, Qeynos Humans, Gnomes, Erudites
Trolls, High Elves, Halflings, Wood Elves, Freeport Humans
Dark Elves, Barbarians, Dwarves, Iksar, Half Elves

I think every single team has Necros, SKs, Pals, Druids, Monks.

[Hailto]

http://xd6.xanga.com/78ef930226730279424330/m222591148.Gif

Pretty accurate reaction to that post.

[Faerie]

Region-based teams would matter less and less as time went on, too.

[nilbog]

http://xd6.xanga.com/78ef930226730279424330/m222591148.Gif

One day, I'd like to make a new pvp server. If I did, I'd like a mixture of all of them.. Rallos item loot, teams, etc.

[Nirgon]

WB pal

[Gustoo]

Item loot if implemented should never be de implemented.

Most people can go straight from junk gear into velious thurg no drop in velious so the fact that at 60 there is a lot of no drop in velious doesn't take away from the valuable item loot mechanic throughout the whole rest of the game.

[Nirgon]

Pls give guidelines for safe conversation as not to scare away the fixer of skean and tstaff

[RoguePhantom]

Does it resonate that there has been more chatter, and more 'interest' back into Red when Teams/Wipe was a possibility?

I know its never going to happen, but do the Devs see the massive interest in it?

[Potus]

Item loot is atrocious, you just have naked casters and no melees. There's a reason it got taken off of every fucking server ever, and it's because you literally had a server of naked wizards and druids and nothing else.

Whatever pvp that happened had people accepting their death but trying to bag whatever they could. FUN FUN FUN.

[Faerie]

I like item loot with FV no drop rules.

[Seary]

WB pal

The Coach always brings em back wanting more :)

[Nirgon]

The Coach always brings em back wanting more :)

Might stick my head in vent 2nite

[Seary]

Might stick my head in vent 2nite

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lyzd9iIEGd1r96gk3o1_500.gif