Illusions no longer affect faction?

[kaos057]

When I have lich on and in skeleton form, my faction does not seem to be affected any more. Was this intentional?

[Nirgon]

Should make you kos to guards

[kaos057]

In halas and qeynos there is no change in faction currently. I know before last patch it made me kos so I guess something broke it.

[Sundawg]

When I have lich on and in skeleton form, my faction does not seem to be affected any more. Was this intentional?

You need to be much more specific.

Some factions care about skeleton illusion, some don't. Some may need to care more then they do now and be fixed.

Edit: the only change to skeleton in Halas was the Halas guards/warriors like skeleton less then before. Don't think anything changed in Qeynos.

[kaos057]

Lich does not affect faction. It used to before patch. It doesn't now. Not sure how to be more specific. I know there were some guards that actually liked skeleton form and some hated it. Either way faction does not change between lich and no lich.

[Nirgon]

Getting hit with ignite bones near guards should cause them to aggro in this era too

[Sundawg]

What is your race/deity and what is the name of the NPC/guard that you are looking at? What does he /con to you out of lich form and in lich form?

[Nirgon]

I'll go with Darkguard Outer / Indigo Brotherhood should pound your skull for being skele form. We used to ignite bones people next to guards (had a low resist rate but many people were naked) for being cowards on RZ. Would always aggro the guards from classic to as far as I can remember into Kunark.

[kaos057]

Human necro innoruuk. Every guard/NPC is the same con with or without lich. You really want me to con every guard in every sone and make it list? Its not just certain guards. It's all of them. Halas guards were apprehensive without, threatening with. Now they are apprehensive either way. Same with qeynos and freeport. Grobb and Oggok guards were threatening without, amiable with. Now they are threatening either way.

[kaos057]

Like I said it was fine before patch. I used to go to grobb to sell and bank as long as I was in lich form. I cant do that now.

[Sundawg]

Getting hit with ignite bones near guards should cause them to aggro in this era too

Can you post what links/evidence you have about this? Skeleton illusion may have been more hated the farther back in time you go.

I've only made Skeleton illusion (except in one specific example where beyond a shadow of a doubt the skeleton illusion provided a bonus to a certain faction) more hated in any adjustments I've made so far regarding it, but there maybe much more to do with them.

[heartbrand]

Getting hit with ignite bones near guards should cause them to aggro in this era too

o man I remember that lulz

[Nirgon]

Well research on these issues is never fun. I suggest you find a druid or wizard who loves classic EQ or platinum for porting and run around and con things.

Personally, I might go with the EQ Mac test.

Further, I'm pretty sure only wolf form could help you with town faction as far as an upward adjustment. Skeleton form (outside of paineel) from Lich (but not AoN?) line should only provide a downard adjustment.

[Sundawg]

Personally, I might go with the EQ Mac test.

Yes of course, and there Skeleton illusion does give some adjustments in a few places, but nothing like "suddenly im kos to dreadguard outer".

It could of been one of those situations where a faction changed over time, maybe due to complaints about getting killed too much in illogical places? I know eventually EQ evolved after several years to where illusions did basically nothing for factions.

Regarding Kaos057: Most of the places you mentioned were not touched this last patch, ill try to find out later today if there is a problem with the necro spell itself.

[kaos057]

Also I'm on red if that matters

[kaos057]

Could this possibly have anything to do with Lich being fixed to no longer break invis?

[Nirgon]

SD: Nuances like ignite bones causing guard aggro aren't something I'd expect to be logged ANYWHERE :/. Try it on Mac but I remember for a very short period you could anti-undead players hit by ignite bones (and for some reason it would never resist regardless of 200+ MR because it wasn't coded to have a pvp resist value) but very quickly fixed... like within a week even.

I'd help with Mac stuff but I only have a live character (OG Nirgon!).

[heartbrand]

I remember on my necro not being able to lich in Freeport /shrug

[Nirgon]

HB how about some NPCs going nuts and attacking summoned skeletons and elementals if you tried to bring them in town. I think this was probably even before Kunark , and truly vanilla only. Just bouncing dat off ya. It is a vague memory at best going on the recollection that somewhere it was stated "most NPCs do not take kindly to the summoning of the dead".

[Thulack]

HB how about some NPCs going nuts and attacking summoned skeletons and elementals if you tried to bring them in town. I think this was probably even before Kunark , and truly vanilla only. Just bouncing dat off ya. It is a vague memory at best going on the recollection that somewhere it was stated "most NPCs do not take kindly to the summoning of the dead".

For some odd reason this brings back a flashback of kelethin guards killing a mage air pet one time but smoke alot so i tend to try and not go off memories from more then 2-3 years :)

[Sundawg]

to the OP:

The lich line of necro spells all seem to be working fine for me as far as forcing a faction adjustment with certain NPCs.

I suspect your problem might be a case of skeleton not moving your faction enough to show a different /con level with the NPC(s) you are considering.

If you truly go to a wide variety of NPCs in different locations and continue to see no difference in faction when in or out of skeleton form, then you can PM me your necro's name and i'll look for you in game and we can do a quick test together.

[kaos057]

I went back to freeport and found something even more interesting now. In north freeport there is no change. But in west freeport I am apprehensive normally and lich made me indifferent. I know for sure lich made me threatening before the patch.

So the one zone I finally got some kind of change in it went the wrong way. I sent you my name in PM too.

[kaos057]

FP clerics... no change..

[Nirgon]

Peep this:

Aha!

Found illusions making players kill on sight in towns for the classic era.

Source (http://www.oocities.org/xymarra/Strategy/EnchanterStrategy.html)

Quote:
•Elemental, wolf, skeleton and imp forms are not welcome in many towns. Check your factions carefully before you use an illusion form near NPCs who are not normally hostile. Target one of them and move far away to test the spell.


^ I underlined many. The necro guilds would allow you to summon skeletons, or pets in the mage guild but running through the town with a skeleton pet was a great way to get the shit beat outta you :P. More here that it wasn't ALL NPCs in towns that would freak out on skeletons, just certain ones..

More era relavant info within post:





After this change
Quote:
Obsolete: After level 35, you don't need to stare at your spell book to meditate.
Now, nobody has to stare at a spell book to meditate. Once you have trained the Meditation skill at level 4, you will automatically meditate when you sit down.

But around here:
Ducking while casting cancels the spell. Due to a recent change, ducking now immediately cancels your current spell cast. If you find yourself in the middle of a long cast, you can rapidly hit your duck key twice and be ready to cast another spell or sit down to meditate.

Note, RECENT change, so this holds well into Velious.

This illusion stuff needs a look but I definitely recall people in fire elemental form getting attacked, or skeletons pets coming through good race cities getting stomped and the player beat down by the guard train.

Necro amulet was special. NPCs that wouldn't ordinarily attack a skeleton you trained by wouldn't bother it (epic mobs for instance, singular purpose) but guards, cleric and paladin guild leaders obviously...

Definitely something to make your decision to look like a skeleton/elemental/werewolf or have one under your command in good aligned cities a careful one.


This appeared to be a document in progress and I can find some non-trilogy stuff in here, but it says don't charm on raids etc which I recall too. No one in their right mind (even in max cha gear) would have a charmed pet in plane of hate on live :P.