procmod/procrate of items.

[nilbog]

It has been reported there should be procmod on any item prior to Luclin.

This was discussed in a non-bug forum thread here:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=125040

If there are no classic objections, I'll be making this change for next patch:

To be clear:

There should be no weapon with a procmod correct? There are very few that currently exist in game. Will change the mod if this should be the case.

select count(*) from items where procrate > '0' and itemtype <> '19'

95 Frostwrath,Reforged Sword of Truth,Blade of Frozen Steel,Barbed Fishing Net,Gleaming Shai`din Naginata,Hammer of Souls,Hammer of Judgment,Staff of Writhing,Wakizashi of the Frozen Skies,Claw of the Grimling Slayer,Short Sword of the Grimling Slayer,Great Sword of the Grimling Slayer,Hammer of the Grimling Slayer,Staff of the Grimling Slayer,Dirk of the Grimling Slayer,Spear of Eternal Bondage,Soulbane,Trident of the Seven Seas,Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled,Pebble Crusher,Skull Shaped Wand,Vile Rib of War,Partisan of Stampede,Mithril Knuckles,Short Bone Blade of the Grimling,Spider Silk Whip,Spider Silk Handwraps,Long Sword of the Defender,Bloody Stone Dagger,Claw of the Savage Spirit,Snowchipper,Silver Blade of Thunder,Fiercewind,Large Meat Tenderizer,Barbarian Spiritist`s Hammer,DawnFire, Morning Star of Light,Staff of Undead Legions,Sarnak Liberator,Hammer of Divinity,Fireclaw Talons,Revtu's Platnium Ulak,Hammer of Holy Vengeance,Pile Driver,Obsidian Scimitar of War,Withering Staff of Agony,Coral Headed Mace,Furious Hammer of Zek,Kelp Hilted Mace,Darkblade of the Warlord,Ivory Hilted Cleaver,Gleaming Obsidian Shard,Greatstaff of the Four Winds,Corpsegrinder,Greatstaff of Power,Bow of the Huntsman,Rune Etched Icewurm Fang,Ishinaear Xiall,Acrylia Handled Broadsword,The Sword of Ssraeshza,Caen's Bo Staff of Fury,Fiery Staff of Zha,Bloodfrenzy,Great Sword of Pestilence,Hammer of Damnation,Clawed Griffin Sword,Spear of Winter,Club of the Ice Ocean,Sledge of Smashing,An Insanity Crawler Fang,The Golden Pick,Brightflame, Pride of the Lifebringer,Tarantella,Summoned: Windwoven Dreamcatcher,Summoned: Searing Torch,Summoned: Icefall Icicle,Summoned: Jagged Ragesword,Hugs,Dainsleif,Durandal,Kisses,TriXim, Dagger of the King,Ensorcelled Great Sword of the Night,Summoned: Burning Shank,Aged Frozen Zweihander,Aged Smoldering Cudgel,Coldforged War Hammer,Summoned: Staff of the North Wind,Summoned: Fireblade,Summoned: Dagger of the Deep,Hammer of Reproach,Sporali Battle Hammer of Spirits,Daybreak, Bringer of Light,Greater Spiked Staff,Mace of Silent Shadow,Maul of Silent Shadow Proposed fix would be to set procrate to 0 for these items.

Discuss.

[Treats]

Ugh, thought Kanras set all procrates to 0 a long time ago ;/

[Tecmos Deception]

Someone make up a bunch of old zam posts that show a huge proc rate bonus for OT hammers please.

[nilbog]

Fixed, pending update.

[Retti_]

What exactly does this mean?

Items currently have different proc chances, but pending patch all will have the same proc rate?

[koros]

This isn't correct if they are resetting all procs to be the same. There wouldn't have been reason to have a differing level on the RMoY and removal of it from game if it didn't have a higher proc rate or proc mod. Same thing with Blade of the Black Dragon eye, it was taken out of the game being viewed as "too powerful" and moved to a place more restricted like VP as the Blade of the Red Dragon eye, with its improved partner Sword of the Shissar. I don't even know if the BofRDE drops here cause nobody kills trash mobs.

Bloodpoint was suppose to have a minor mod as well as a few others within kunark era. So if you strip the mod or have done so already, then again there will be an unnecessary unclassic nerf.

Database queries on proc rate from 2003/2004 show that no old items had proc rate mods. It's that simple.

[Melissa]

so the fix is going to make the listed items proc less right? just wanted to make sure of that

[bizzum]

Any chance of posting what the current bonuses were just for reference's sake? Would be nice to know what is going to be taking a hit!

[koros]

the ones you can find perhaps, why is RMoY a lvl 50 req. whereas all other ykesha procs are 37 according to websites? Why was it removed when its ratio is only slightly better by 1 in each category to the ykesha club? and even slimmer on the ykesha scimmy?

Why were the devs comments on the black blade listed in patch notes as what i described above if it were the same as all the rest? That spell isn't known to draw more hate than other spell lines nor do vastly more damage than say bloodfire in regards to the DoT, yet was removed and placed differently cause of its power. Ratio could be the argument, but again there are other weapons with similar or better aspects however still in game in non-raid zones.

Because it was dropping off trash? Who knows, they removed a lot of random items from early Kunark. What we do know is that it existed in the databases the queries drew from. It didn't have a proc rate mod.

It doesn't have one on live to this day:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=6607

[Thulack]

I was basing information off of what devs said, not what random websites listed. Power was the reason for removals and the moving of some items to other locations like NoS and the like.

Besides the database of today would be different than '04 and the database of '04 would be different than 2000 especially with removals and adjustments.

Makes no sense that the items would have a proc rate in classic then removed before the 2004 database then put back in after? botBDE and RMoY is OP because of combination of ratio and the proc. the procrate didnt have to be modded for it to still be OP.

[nilbog]

Any chance of posting what the current bonuses were just for reference's sake? Would be nice to know what is going to be taking a hit!

I like Snowchipper.

Snowchipper 2147483647
Dainsleif 11000
Hugs 11000
Durandal 11000
Kisses 11000
The Golden Pick 2500
Daybreak, Bringer of Light 530
Coral Headed Mace 530
Withering Staff of Agony 530
Hammer of Reproach 530
Hammer of Holy Vengeance 530
Furious Hammer of Zek 530
Brightflame, Pride of the Lifebringer 530
Hammer of Damnation 530
Sporali Battle Hammer of Spirits 530
Hammer of Souls 450
Hammer of Divinity 325
Hammer of Judgment 250
Aged Smoldering Cudgel 188
Greatstaff of Power 180
Maul of Silent Shadow 100
Barbed Fishing Net 100
Summoned: Jagged Ragesword 100
Pile Driver 100
Summoned: Fireblade 100
Summoned: Burning Shank 100
Summoned: Searing Torch 100
Summoned: Icefall Icicle 100
Summoned: Staff of the North Wind 100
Summoned: Windwoven Dreamcatcher 100
Summoned: Dagger of the Deep 100
Mace of Silent Shadow 100
Aged Frozen Zweihander 90
Sledge of Smashing 83
Large Meat Tenderizer 82
Fiercewind 81
Staff of Writhing 75
Kelp Hilted Mace 70
Blasphemous Blade of the Exiled 65
Barbarian Spiritist`s Hammer 64
Skull Shaped Wand 58
Blade of Frozen Steel 57
Coldforged War Hammer 57
Bloodfrenzy 55
DawnFire, Morning Star of Light 54
Reforged Sword of Truth 50
Wakizashi of the Frozen Skies 50
Sarnak Liberator 50
Fiery Staff of Zha 50
Claw of the Grimling Slayer 49
Rune Etched Icewurm Fang 49
Bow of the Huntsman 49
Dirk of the Grimling Slayer 49
Staff of the Grimling Slayer 49
Spear of Winter 49
Great Sword of the Grimling Slayer 49
Short Sword of the Grimling Slayer 49
Hammer of the Grimling Slayer 49
Staff of Undead Legions 43
Club of the Ice Ocean 35
Frostwrath 35
Clawed Griffin Sword 35
Trident of the Seven Seas 35
Corpsegrinder 30
Greatstaff of the Four Winds 30
Darkblade of the Warlord 30
Great Sword of Pestilence 25
Obsidian Scimitar of War 25
Gleaming Obsidian Shard 25
Caen's Bo Staff of Fury 25
Gleaming Shai`din Naginata 20
Ensorcelled Great Sword of the Night 10
TriXim, Dagger of the King 10
Greater Spiked Staff 10
Silver Blade of Thunder 10
An Insanity Crawler Fang 10
Ivory Hilted Cleaver 10
Fireclaw Talons 5
Spear of Eternal Bondage 5
Vile Rib of War 5
Short Bone Blade of the Grimling 5
The Sword of Ssraeshza 5
Revtu's Platnium Ulak 5
Spider Silk Handwraps 4
Spider Silk Whip 4
Mithril Knuckles 4
Partisan of Stampede 4
Soulbane 4
Acrylia Handled Broadsword 3
Ishinaear Xiall 3
Claw of the Savage Spirit 3
Long Sword of the Defender 3
Bloody Stone Dagger 2
Tarantella 2
Pebble Crusher 1

[spoils]

What exactly does this mean?

Items currently have different proc chances, but pending patch all will have the same proc rate?

can we get an answer to this question?

sorry i need to l2readingcomprehension i guess

[Stinkum]

I believe it means exactly that.

In other words, most items have the standard formula for determining how often you proc. But currently, the provided list of items have a modifier in the item that makes them uniquely proc more (or less). Nilbog is removing that modifier from the items listed and making everything have the standard proc mod.

[heazels]

This isn't correct if they are resetting all procs to be the same. There wouldn't have been reason to have a differing level on the RMoY and removal of it from game if it didn't have a higher proc rate or proc mod. Same thing with Blade of the Black Dragon eye, it was taken out of the game being viewed as "too powerful" and moved to a place more restricted like VP as the Blade of the Red Dragon eye, with its improved likeness Sword of the Shissar. I don't even know if the BofRDE drops here cause nobody kills trash mobs.

Bloodpoint was suppose to have a minor mod as well as a few others within kunark era. So if you strip the mod or have done so already, then again there will be an unnecessary unclassic nerf.

Granted the weapons i brought forth aren't listed, i assume they would still fall within the global change you are proposing.

These were removed because it was the classic timetable it had nothing to do with being too powerful although that was the original reason verant had for moving them

[heazels]

Classic is definitely not to have proc modifiers, I believe that was a luclin thing they added, or PoP+. Set them to 0 imo, should have always been that way.

[orsk]

So lets say there are no proc modifiers anymore, does this mean dexterity will not play a role in proc chances?

[Aeolwind]

So lets say there are no proc modifiers anymore, does this mean dexterity will not play a role in proc chances?
From what I gather, the Procmod was a flat % change in the base proc rate. It didn't have anything to do directly with dex.

[koros]

From what I gather, the Procmod was a flat % change in the base proc rate. It didn't have anything to do directly with dex.

Right. (base_rate*proc_mod*dex_mod)=proc_rate. Altering the proc mod kept the effect of dex intact.

[orsk]

From what I gather, the Procmod was a flat % change in the base proc rate. It didn't have anything to do directly with dex.

Alright, so basically certain weps proc more than others and now its to be changed to have all weapons have the same proc rate. My question is will dexterity play a roll in increasing that flat proc rate? basically isnt dex a procmod?

[Nirgon]

I think dex always had a hand in crits and procs. Would need to confirm dat with research.

[orsk]

I think dex always had a hand in crits and procs. Would need to confirm dat with research.

I would need to delve into it as well but from the start in character creation the points in your basic stats were explained in reguards of Dexterity:

Determines your skills with weapons. Higher dexterity means that if your weapons have effects on them, they will activate (or proc) more frequently. High Dexterity also determines how often you will critical strike with weapons.

I have always tried to max dex out whenever possible for crits/crips/procs and honestly have not delved into checking dex levels with or without certain items with + dex. Is there a actual code mechanic for dex stat same as STA etc?

[nilbog]

For what it's worth, the change in OP only involves extra proc chances on the items listed. This was a change made later to make certain items proc more than others.

[orsk]

For what it's worth, the change in OP only involves extra proc chances on the items listed. This was a change made later to make certain items proc more than others.

Right makes sense just got me thinking about the whole dexterity mechanic, I honestly dont know enough about mechanics was just curious about the significance of dexterity on procs, another topic in itself im sure

[Nirgon]

I'm MUCH more sure about crit than procs.

Dex did make a pretty big difference but I'm not sure when that started.

Boon of the garou made a massive difference in proc rate.

[gortimer]

Is there any proof that weapons had no proc rate mods until luclin?

[Buellen]

Confused:


The proposed change is removed procratemode ? NOT the inherent procrate of weapons ?

Lucy shows procratemode entry added 2004 to bonethunder staff THIS ENTRY IS BLANK. Their is no change log of proc rate entry of the bonethunder staff. proc rate entery listed as 350.

The bonethunder staff had a high proc from what i rem of live orig eq. It is one of the weapon i remember getting for that reason on my paladin/ cleric.

Garue 49th Level half elf war // buskier 34th level human cleric

[Jimjam]

Right makes sense just got me thinking about the whole dexterity mechanic, I honestly dont know enough about mechanics was just curious about the significance of dexterity on procs, another topic in itself im sure

When I read up on it on live people's testing seemed to suggest you got an improved proc rate for every 50 dexterity after 105.

Can anyone confirm if I am remembering anything close to correct?

I'd love to have a copy of the maths behind classic eq, there was so much rumour, speculation and misinformation on how everything supposedly worked!

[Nirgon]

I'm still going with boon of garou giving a very large proc rate increase. That would be where I would start digging research wise at least for Velious era.

[koros]

That's because it increased dex by 100, no other reason.

[Nirgon]

Take a guess if I know it gave 100 dex :P

That's what I meant. It gave tons of dex.. nvm dead horse crying uncle.

[gortimer]

http://lucy.fnord.net/itemhistory.html?id=11647

Barbarian spiritists hammer. Since initial entry there is no proc rate mod change.

[koros]

http://lucy.fnord.net/itemhistory.html?id=11647

Barbarian spiritists hammer. Since initial entry there is no proc rate mod change.

Live 2006-12-13 10:34 Added procratemod: '64'