First to Engage: Exploiting the mechanic?

[khanable]

You think it is a lack of gear that is preventing other guilds from beating raid encounters on this server?

Might not be the case now, but in Velious I could see it happening somewhat.

[Alarti0001]

That's what was said about Kunark. Now, say hello to the new and improved extra long variance mechanic!

Velious raid mobs are almost exactly the same as Kunark raid mobs.

[Elements]

The issue with everything is that people cannot act like civilized adults. Let's look at BDA's Vox kill yesterday as a simple example.

We (BDA) were first on the scene and began the civilized process of clearing towards Vox. TMO shows up, leapfrogs our raid force, trains everything before Vox + plus her lair out and onto our force and immediately engages Vox. We were forced to camp out our raid force and TMO wiped to adds or something. We recovered from our partial wipe and beat the dragon. I don't really care if TMO's train out strat was "accidentally" dropped on our force or as they would obviously claim we shouldn't have been in their way.

So how do you stop that behavior with rule implementation? We managed to persevere through this round of bullshit, but for every one minor raid kill we get there's another 10 incidents where this exact same type of thing happens. We need rules to address that type of behavior, the attitude that as long as the mob is alive a guild can/will do anything possible to score the kill. The punishments are not severe enough to deter the behavior. Even if we caught the accidental train red handed with some 1080p fraps and two forms of ID that one alt might get suspended for a week, it doesn't stop the machine.

We need some type of play nice policy and we need it enforced. The current mindset is "do whatever it takes" and I've even told by staff numerous times that if we don't like what TMO does to us then we should do it right back to them. Some of us want to maintain some sense of decency and decorum. We shouldn't have to lie/cheat/steal/train and pretend it's tantamount to competition. Knowing how to dodge enemy trains (in places where it's actually illegal no less) shouldn't be a condition of raiding on this server.

I don't want to poopsock, I don't even want a rotation at this point (although I see nothing wrong with it) I only want to be able to engage a target without getting trained EVERY single time. This is possible, but TMO would actually have to act like adults. Every other guild has said at one point or another that they would agree to some simple rules of engagement but TMO refuses. 10% of the server population is dictating how raiding is to be done by everyone else. We've seen Divinity move on Dojo and given them some space to make an engage, or even when it was other guilds banding together to take a shot at Naggy we didn't immediately go to leapfrog and train giants out and OOPS sorry we didn't mean to train your raid accidentally because we desperately needed FTE.

There's nothing wrong with treating others like humans and trying to show some fucking decency.

And yet BDA is not against doing this and worse to others. Example: Ragefire few nights back Nizzler and I are buffing up to hand in pearl to ragefire. BDA monk trains FGs on us gets us killed. As we are rezzing up bout two grousp of BDA show up, another monk (Pullyn or something?) trains in more FGs and kills us again (this is BDA wiping us twice now to trains in an attempt to leapfrog us). So BDA rushes a pearl hand in and wipes to ragefire and even more fire giants. Having lost their claim to a mob since they wiped and its been some time since the spawn we engage human form ragefire. BDA then jumps in to KS once he is at ~70% effectively committing raid interference by spawning the dragon on us and KSing human form. But not to worry, BDA wipes YET AGAIN and us in the process. We recover, pull dragon form, kill before they can recover for the win.

Point being after training twice, kill stealing, raid interfering, and shit talking, BDA thinks they have done nothing wrong and have been wronged in the process. You should know this Chest you were there. Sorry guys but for people I used to roll with you sure show no respect. The kicker here is that I have fraps of the whole thing.

[Itap]

And yet BDA is not against doing this and worse to others. Example: Ragefire few nights back Nizzler and I are buffing up to hand in pearl to ragefire. BDA monk trains FGs on us gets us killed. As we are rezzing up bout two grousp of BDA show up, another monk (Pullyn or something?) trains in more FGs and kills us again (this is BDA wiping us twice now to trains in an attempt to leapfrog us). So BDA rushes a pearl hand in and wipes to ragefire and even more fire giants. Having lost their claim to a mob since they wiped and its been some time since the spawn we engage human form ragefire. BDA then jumps in to KS once he is at ~70% effectively committing raid interference by spawning the dragon on us and KSing human form. But not to worry, BDA wipes YET AGAIN and us in the process. We recover, pull dragon form, kill before they can recover for the win.

Point being after training twice, kill stealing, raid interfering, and shit talking, BDA thinks they have done nothing wrong and have been wronged in the process. Sorry guys but for people I used to roll with you sure show no respect. The kicker here is that I have fraps of the whole thing.

It's called fighting fire with fire.

[Llodd]

It's called fighting fire with fire.

All I'm getting is that to be a guild leader/raid leader/officer on p1999 is to be a tool.

Why does every thread degenerate into this bickering shite? (no need to answer that)

[arsenalpow]

Velious raid mobs are almost exactly the same as Kunark raid mobs.

Flurry, rampage, 10x to 20x more HP, ya almost exactly...

[Itap]

All I'm getting is that to be a guild leader/raid leader/officer on p1999 is to be a tool.

Why does every thread degenerate into this bickering shite? (no need to answer that)

Three words, The Mystical Order.

[arsenalpow]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole. To top it all off

[Wed Oct 30 16:38:28 2013] You say out of character, 'ascention, that is not yer mob to engage'
[Wed Oct 30 16:38:49 2013] You told ascention, 'wut are u doing old friend'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:00 2013] Ascention tells you, 'whose perl got handed in?'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:04 2013] You told Ascention, 'contemptor'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:20 2013] You told Ascention, 'we had a 20 min timer going, its not up'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:29 2013] Ascention tells you, 'oh'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:37 2013] You told Ascention, 'raid interference, not to mention being the worst '
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:41 2013] You told Ascention, 'jesus man'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:47 2013] You told Ascention, 'dont let tmo corrupt u'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:05 2013] You told Ascention, 'turn attack off'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:29 2013] You say out of character, 'u trained hte lair with FGs'
[Wed Oct 30 16:47:49 2013] You told Ascention, 'well for what its worth, you have sunk to the lowest of the low '
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:36 2013] Ascention tells you, 'just doing what im told'
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:48 2013] Ascention tells you, 'we were there first and trained by a bda monk for the record'
[Wed Oct 30 17:38:56 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'Im not gonna lie I do feel a little bit bad for the way things went down'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:10 2013] You told Grundlegore, 'dont ever talk to me again after that'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:52 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'aight man, but from my experience shit went down the same way when I was in bda, I just feel bad now cause it was you guys'

Don't fucking play the victim, you didn't even know what happened. Have fun being a mindless soldier in TMO.

[Orruar]

2 giants wipe a raid? you all need a visit from dr. turgur

[arsenalpow]

2 giants wipe a raid? you all need a visit from dr. turgur

Like 5 or 6 of us, to just Ascention and Nizzler who duo'd it.

[Alarti0001]

Flurry, rampage, 10x to 20x more HP, ya almost exactly...

You got lost in the sarcasm. Its okay

[dirty joe]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole. To top it all off

If you wipe to human form and he resets, isn't that mob up for grabs regardless of how much of the 20 minutes is left?

[Alarti0001]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole. To top it all off

[Wed Oct 30 16:38:28 2013] You say out of character, 'ascention, that is not yer mob to engage'
[Wed Oct 30 16:38:49 2013] You told ascention, 'wut are u doing old friend'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:00 2013] Ascention tells you, 'whose perl got handed in?'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:04 2013] You told Ascention, 'contemptor'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:20 2013] You told Ascention, 'we had a 20 min timer going, its not up'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:29 2013] Ascention tells you, 'oh'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:37 2013] You told Ascention, 'raid interference, not to mention being the worst '
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:41 2013] You told Ascention, 'jesus man'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:47 2013] You told Ascention, 'dont let tmo corrupt u'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:05 2013] You told Ascention, 'turn attack off'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:29 2013] You say out of character, 'u trained hte lair with FGs'
[Wed Oct 30 16:47:49 2013] You told Ascention, 'well for what its worth, you have sunk to the lowest of the low '
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:36 2013] Ascention tells you, 'just doing what im told'
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:48 2013] Ascention tells you, 'we were there first and trained by a bda monk for the record'
[Wed Oct 30 17:38:56 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'Im not gonna lie I do feel a little bit bad for the way things went down'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:10 2013] You told Grundlegore, 'dont ever talk to me again after that'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:52 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'aight man, but from my experience shit went down the same way when I was in bda, I just feel bad now cause it was you guys'

Don't fucking play the victim, you didn't even know what happened. Have fun being a mindless soldier in TMO.


So if BDA gears you in hate gear... they own your soul? Noted.

you are such a crybaby chest

[Splorf22]

2 giants wipe a raid? you all need a visit from dr. turgur

Not to mention Dr. Paralyzing Earth. But I'm willing to withhold judgment until I see the fraps. Which we really need to see; Elements called Chest out pretty hard but Chest has volleyed the ball back into his court.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The issue with everything is that people cannot act like civilized adults. Let's look at BDA's Vox kill yesterday as a simple example.

We (BDA) were first on the scene and began the civilized process of clearing towards Vox. TMO shows up, leapfrogs our raid force, trains everything before Vox + plus her lair out and onto our force and immediately engages Vox. We were forced to camp out our raid force and TMO wiped to adds or something. We recovered from our partial wipe and beat the dragon. I don't really care if TMO's train out strat was "accidentally" dropped on our force or as they would obviously claim we shouldn't have been in their way.

So how do you stop that behavior with rule implementation? We managed to persevere through this round of bullshit, but for every one minor raid kill we get there's another 10 incidents where this exact same type of thing happens. We need rules to address that type of behavior, the attitude that as long as the mob is alive a guild can/will do anything possible to score the kill. The punishments are not severe enough to deter the behavior. Even if we caught the accidental train red handed with some 1080p fraps and two forms of ID that one alt might get suspended for a week, it doesn't stop the machine.

We need some type of play nice policy and we need it enforced. The current mindset is "do whatever it takes" and I've even told by staff numerous times that if we don't like what TMO does to us then we should do it right back to them. Some of us want to maintain some sense of decency and decorum. We shouldn't have to lie/cheat/steal/train and pretend it's tantamount to competition. Knowing how to dodge enemy trains (in places where it's actually illegal no less) shouldn't be a condition of raiding on this server.

I don't want to poopsock, I don't even want a rotation at this point (although I see nothing wrong with it) I only want to be able to engage a target without getting trained EVERY single time. This is possible, but TMO would actually have to act like adults. Every other guild has said at one point or another that they would agree to some simple rules of engagement but TMO refuses. 10% of the server population is dictating how raiding is to be done by everyone else. We've seen Divinity move on Dojo and given them some space to make an engage, or even when it was other guilds banding together to take a shot at Naggy we didn't immediately go to leapfrog and train giants out and OOPS sorry we didn't mean to train your raid accidentally because we desperately needed FTE.

There's nothing wrong with treating others like humans and trying to show some fucking decency.

tl? dr?

In many ways, eq is ffa. But leapfrogging is never cool. That should actually be a rule, I think. It is not ambiguous. Not all encounters can be leapfrogged, but those that can, I would like to see someone defend it.

Whether it can be policed is another matter. One guild's complain is another guild's "we both got there at the same time."

But you know it when it happens. I always hated basterds who thought stuff like that was good gameplay. It's not. It's weak.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Halls of Testing armor, the freeing up of Kunark boss mobs/epic quests, and the availability of non-boss Velious drops (Willsapper is a good example) really equaled the playing field in EQlive on my old server. Guilds were able to do more with this gear because it was much more accessible, easier to obtain, and less contested.

It will be interesting to observe how things play out.

Good question. I played eq2, which at least had a thriving playerbase for several years, and for the first few years, a lot of contested content. You could do worse. The game was fair enough. And, as I say, it had a playerbase. Always nice to see a couple dozen servers running.

Was in two guilds first 5 years, with each of them, we killed contested spawns even if no one needed the items. At the time, it was just how we rolled. Mob spawns, phone rings, kill.

If another guild was there before us, we always gave them a free and stress-free one try. The fact they could not execute was not our problem.

And we were not zerg guilds. In both my eq2 guilds, our roster was 30ish. It just is not rocket science to lockdown a server, is the point. (too much time on my hands, apparently, during the mid 2000's)

And so, your question is an interesting one.

Not sure what the culture is among the top end guilds here. Not sure I care. But, it is a huge assumption that lots of people make, that moar content = less lockdown.

Not true. Not necessarily.

[Elements]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole. To top it all off

[Wed Oct 30 16:38:28 2013] You say out of character, 'ascention, that is not yer mob to engage'
[Wed Oct 30 16:38:49 2013] You told ascention, 'wut are u doing old friend'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:00 2013] Ascention tells you, 'whose perl got handed in?'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:04 2013] You told Ascention, 'contemptor'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:20 2013] You told Ascention, 'we had a 20 min timer going, its not up'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:29 2013] Ascention tells you, 'oh'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:37 2013] You told Ascention, 'raid interference, not to mention being the worst '
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:41 2013] You told Ascention, 'jesus man'
[Wed Oct 30 16:39:47 2013] You told Ascention, 'dont let tmo corrupt u'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:05 2013] You told Ascention, 'turn attack off'
[Wed Oct 30 16:40:29 2013] You say out of character, 'u trained hte lair with FGs'
[Wed Oct 30 16:47:49 2013] You told Ascention, 'well for what its worth, you have sunk to the lowest of the low '
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:36 2013] Ascention tells you, 'just doing what im told'
[Wed Oct 30 16:50:48 2013] Ascention tells you, 'we were there first and trained by a bda monk for the record'
[Wed Oct 30 17:38:56 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'Im not gonna lie I do feel a little bit bad for the way things went down'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:10 2013] You told Grundlegore, 'dont ever talk to me again after that'
[Wed Oct 30 17:39:52 2013] Grundlegore tells you, 'aight man, but from my experience shit went down the same way when I was in bda, I just feel bad now cause it was you guys'

Don't fucking play the victim, you didn't even know what happened. Have fun being a mindless soldier in TMO.

All I see above is a plea for pixels after some ass-hat behavior. Why would someone you train twice and leapfrog want to give up an engage on a mob you wiped to? You can also see how I am civil to you throughout your logs... Had it been just me, I probably would have just walked away but since I was with others I left the call up to them and I didn't really care at that point if we were taking a FFA mob that someone in your party had spawned.

If I'm just a mindless soldier why are you so broke up about me leaving?

[Splorf22]

There are simply too many high level toons. Kunark will be out for three years soon. The 'casual' players have a max toon and a 50+ alt. The 'hardcore' players have 2-3 max toons. And there are people with legit armies like Jeremy and Treats. If Velious had come out 8 months after Kunark, when a much smaller fraction of the server was maxed it might solve some problems. As is, it'll make stuff better but it's not the answer.

What I don't understand is why the staff is so hellbent on competition. Suppose each guild got 2-4 tokens per week to spawn whatever bosses they wanted. Voila, casual guilds can do their thing without getting cockblocked, and the elite raiders can go nuts sitting in VS's pit for 96 hours.

[Alarti0001]

No, it wont.

Not even close, and you're fucking stupid if you legitimately think that. I sincerely hope you are trolling. Please say you are, or step down from being a guide please.

Do you have any comprehension of this server what so ever? Your highest main character is 40 something?

There are dozens of us, who are willing to have a nice and lengthy conversation on the matter...But you seem to have no idea how the raid scene works. Its like amelinda all over but without the RMT flowing in to your pockets.

Velious fixes NOTHING.

VP will be on lock down 24/7
Trak, VS, all of Plane of fear including golems now on lockdown
All of hate on lockdown
All of Wtov locked down
All ST warders locked down
Eashen locked down.
Vindi, Statue, KT, and OOIV guy locked down.


Thats enough content for ONE GUILD. JUST ONE

How does velious fix ANYTHING, when it is all easily trackable, and there is enough time in 3 nights to do all of those targets. What to do with the remaining 4 nights in the week.

As ST and NtoV become viable (3 months for cleric mana and warrior HP) then 1 guild and maybe 3-4 targets for another.

It solves nothing, especially considering how population will increase as well.

Variance, is destroying this server.
Variance, is holding all loot back from everyone not in the top 2 guilds
Variance, is forcing the top guild players to track targets for TEN DAYS STRAIGHT, multiple targets, with multiple raid forces logged out at them.
Variance, is destroying any point in simulated repops if ever put in.

Simulated repops would work, for the repop. Then NEVER again until the next simulated repop, because of variance.

Worst f*cking mechanic ever implimented, and must of been done so by someone with no fucking clue how P99 works. Extended variance? Wow.... way to solidify that tattoo on your forehead, whoever it was (rogean, nilbog?).

There are SO MANY PEOPLE who want to spread the drops, spread the raid kills, play less and do more, and spend time on alts, and not destroying the economy etc.

But instead, we have extended variance, and no repops ever. Its mind bottling. :D

TMO has little to no interest in Kunark with velious out. Variance is largely pointless in Velious however. Harder to poop mobs there. Velious has a natural variance on many mobs too

Variance was added to remove poopsocking, velious does most of that by itself.

[justin2090]

What I don't understand is why the staff is so hellbent on competition. Suppose each guild got 2-4 tokens per week to spawn whatever bosses they wanted. Voila, casual guilds can do their thing without getting cockblocked, and the elite raiders can go nuts sitting in VS's pit for 96 hours.

This is a good idea but there are negatives to everything. What's stopping those guilds from not recruiting? Guild X gets 2-4 tokens a week and shuts down all recruitment. They keep 20 people and gear their mains and every alt. Sure you could say, "GM's shut their tokens's down cause their greedy" but then we're adding more work to our voluntary GM's.

Some of the server wants a competitive raid scene and some just do not have the time in RL to be apart of it. Somewhere in between is where the solution is. Someone just has to find it.

[khanable]

Gear makes no difference to any person on p1999 right now.

That's why I said maybe in Velious? :confused:

Ain't no one tanking AoW in cobalt. And I think you agree :)


Thats enough content for ONE GUILD. JUST ONE

...

As ST and NtoV become viable (3 months for cleric mana and warrior HP) then 1 guild and maybe 3-4 targets for another.

...

Variance, is holding all loot back from everyone not in the top 2 guilds

[Splorf22]

This is a good idea but there are negatives to everything. What's stopping those guilds from not recruiting? Guild X gets 2-4 tokens a week and shuts down all recruitment. They keep 20 people and gear their mains and every alt. Sure you could say, "GM's shut their tokens's down cause their greedy" but then we're adding more work to our voluntary GM's.

Or they could form a new guild, and get their own tokens.

Some of the server wants a competitive raid scene and some just do not have the time in RL to be apart of it. Somewhere in between is where the solution is. Someone just has to find it.

The whole point of tokens is to make that split. The casuals can gradually progress through the content without batphoning and tracking, while the hardcore guilds still have their VS poopsocks and superior magelo profiles to look forward to.

[JayN]

Release velious problem solved!

All this crazy token shit is cray cray

[heazels]

Release velious problem solved!

All this crazy token shit is cray cray

This will not solve the overcrowded end game. Server Split or new server is the only answer.

[justin2090]

The token idea is good don't get me wrong. But having the GM's moderate the amount of tokens a guild gets based on raid size, shut them off if they get greedy, or giving every newly formed guild a set of tokens is asking to much. I mean me and 19 other ppl could make 19 different alts and form 20 different guilds witha set of tokens for each.

And thats just with 20 people doing it. 500 hundred people using alts to make guilds would be well 500 guilds. You would have to give tokens to 3-4 different guilds tops. Then if they get greedy and shut down recruiting?

EDIT:
Also I dunno how many Donal Breastplates are on the server currently but lets just say its 200. Now if every guild could spawn him 4x a week would that not increase the amount of Donals on the server significantly? They would be so abundant and cheap. Hell even I would have a lvl 1 cleric witha Donals. So it's not just giving guilds raid targets. Tokens would have a severe impact on the economy.

Sure you could say make the loot no drop but then you could bring your alt in and loot awesome gear. Why would you shop in EC when you can be pimped with tokens? The only way tokens would work is if the dragons drop no loot at all and that just doesn't sound fun to me.

[JayN]

I beg to differ.

Crown of rile, ynuubs, cloak of sky, haste boots, robe of azure sky all huge still in velious. It isnt until vulak, dozekar/tormax/yelinak quest level, white dragon boots etc etc you are replacing those items.

CT items become better than ntov quality

Epics from VS still as good as ever, especially with amount of wizards wanted for ntov/KT barrier of force is invaluable to have on every wiz.

Trakanon is less useful of course though, I agree 100%.

But that doesnt say anything of the problem we have now and for the next 6 months.

only thing worth going back for would be pd but i doubt many will want to, also i doubt any other guild could do most velious content upon release....

Nothing wrong with being one expansion behind many guild are/were like that.

[arsenalpow]

All I see above is a plea for pixels after some ass-hat behavior. Why would someone you train twice and leapfrog want to give up an engage on a mob you wiped to? You can also see how I am civil to you throughout your logs... Had it been just me, I probably would have just walked away but since I was with others I left the call up to them and I didn't really care at that point if we were taking a FFA mob that someone in your party had spawned.

If I'm just a mindless soldier why are you so broke up about me leaving?

Wasn't my logs, you were dead to me just like any other mindless drone that left to TMO to up their pixel count. You were so civil that you trained our initial engage and then left the decision to fuck with us to "others" (Nizzler) because you're a fucking drone.

This is what happens when you put pixels before people, you'll do whatever you are told and you'll maintain that clean conscience because it wasn't your call or because it wasn't you that did the fucked up stuff to ruin it for other guilds, it was your guildmate and maybe you don't agree with it and not all TMO are bad, and you just group with them and we're just mean and unfairly singling you out.

[Visual]

No one will dispute that Nizzler is at the root of all that is bad

[Tanthallas]

ruh roh

[Ravager]

The token idea is good don't get me wrong. But having the GM's moderate the amount of tokens a guild gets based on raid size, shut them off if they get greedy, or giving every newly formed guild a set of tokens is asking to much. I mean me and 19 other ppl could make 19 different alts and form 20 different guilds witha set of tokens for each.

And thats just with 20 people doing it. 500 hundred people using alts to make guilds would be well 500 guilds. You would have to give tokens to 3-4 different guilds tops. Then if they get greedy and shut down recruiting?

EDIT:
Also I dunno how many Donal Breastplates are on the server currently but lets just say its 200. Now if every guild could spawn him 4x a week would that not increase the amount of Donals on the server significantly? They would be so abundant and cheap. Hell even I would have a lvl 1 cleric witha Donals. So it's not just giving guilds raid targets. Tokens would have a severe impact on the economy.

Sure you could say make the loot no drop but then you could bring your alt in and loot awesome gear. Why would you shop in EC when you can be pimped with tokens? The only way tokens would work is if the dragons drop no loot at all and that just doesn't sound fun to me.

The economy only matters to the EverCommonlanders or the people who block content to sell ranger epics for 1 million plat. It means nothing to people who actually play the game to acquire loot. More loot only hurts the exceptionally greedy.

[Rellapse35]

Easy to get FTE.

If you're in TMO, and caught red handed two boxing.

Hey Zagum? How was that being sprung on Klaritee too?

And then being banned on the spot, and then unbanned after the paypal went through.

Welcome back. Back to autofire FTE'ing with your pals and two boxing.

shots fired

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/66984/shots-fired-o.gif

[Alarti0001]

I beg to differ.

Crown of rile, ynuubs, cloak of sky, haste boots, robe of azure sky all huge still in velious. It isnt until vulak, dozekar/tormax/yelinak quest level, white dragon boots etc etc you are replacing those items.

CT items become better than ntov quality

Epics from VS still as good as ever, especially with amount of wizards wanted for ntov/KT barrier of force is invaluable to have on every wiz.

Trakanon is less useful of course though, I agree 100%.

But that doesnt say anything of the problem we have now and for the next 6 months.

CT isn't revamped for months, Every TMO wizard has an epic, TMO already doesn't want to wake up for PD. You can beg to differ all you want, I have a pretty good idea of my guilds interests.

Your month progression will also prove to be very inaccurate, for very very obvious reasons.

[Alarti0001]

Easy to get FTE.

If you're in TMO, and caught red handed two boxing.

Hey Zagum? How was that being sprung on Klaritee too?

And then being banned on the spot, and then unbanned after the paypal went through.

Welcome back. Back to autofire FTE'ing with your pals and two boxing.

You have become unhinged, welcome to the TinHat club. Please ask Tasslehof for your membership card.

[Erati]

um

Elements..... can we see these magical fraps?

set them to the soothing sounds of "Crash into Me" by DMB

[Mezzmur]

Easy to get FTE.

If you're in TMO, and caught red handed two boxing.

Hey Zagum? How was that being sprung on Klaritee too?

And then being banned on the spot, and then unbanned after the paypal went through.

Welcome back. Back to autofire FTE'ing with your pals and two boxing.

I'm fine with FTE, I'm fine with whatever else the GMs decide, and I'd love simulated random repops on random days.

Please move thread to RNF; No longer about OP's topic.

[Cecily]

Oh it should have been moved way earlier. Was a nice experiment to see how long we could stay civil with each other though.
Think we got to 15 seconds.

[Treats]

Want to fix the P99 Raiding Scene?

Ramp up difficulty to Classic levels where it should be

Permanent Bans for Players and Guilds that perform deliberate zone disruptions

The End

Most people in this thread should be thankful of the current high end mechanics of the server.

Without them they wouldn't even have a remote chance at killing ANYTHING.

[Fael]

Want to fix the P99 Raiding Scene?

Ramp up difficulty to Classic levels where it should be

Permanent Bans for Players and Guilds that perform deliberate zone disruptions

The End

Most people in this thread should be thankful of the current high end mechanics of the server.

Without them they wouldn't even have a remote chance at killing ANYTHING.

1. Ramp up difficulty. In what ways do you propose beyond resist tables? Are you going off memory or facts? What are your facts. I ask this because my guild killed gore in kunark, and our gear was crap compared to what we have now. I don't think it was any harder than it is now. If you have 6+ wizards and 6+ rogues, things are going to die, bottom line. Shit aint hard then or now if you had the gear and numbers that currently kill these mobs.

2. "deliberate zone disruptions." Definition and facts needed. We are all in a sand box. Contact will be made, unless we redefine who and when one earns the right of first engage.

Dolic

[Alarti0001]

1. Ramp up difficulty. In what ways do you propose beyond resist tables? Are you going off memory or facts? What are your facts. I ask this because my guild killed gore in kunark, and our gear was crap compared to what we have now. I don't think it was any harder than it is now. If you have 6+ wizards and 6+ rogues, things are going to die, bottom line. Shit aint hard then or now if you had the gear and numbers that currently kill these mobs.

2. "deliberate zone disruptions." Definition and facts needed. We are all in a sand box. Contact will be made, unless we redefine who and when one earns the right of first engage.

Dolic

Only mob I can think of that is significantly under-powered at the moment in VS

[Cecily]

Lhranc too

[pasi]

You guys have killed 41% hasted DW'n Hoshkar - you've already killed a stronger version of Zlexak which is one of the harder NToV dragons. Not to mention you did so while under duress of trains.

Thats why I made a very distinct, and very clear distinction between the first 3 months of velious, and after that point.

The first AoW kills took 3 guilds and 120+ people to get him to 70%, 30% and 20%, and two guilds and 90 people to get him dead, after months and months of farming NToV.

Considering what we know now, and what to farm, and how to gear, I still expect a properly tuned AoW to take 3 months of NToV farmed warrior gear.


I posted the math on the matter before, but AoW boils down to one thing - can you keep up a defensive warrior for a single round of his melee? If you can keep up a tank, it doesn't matter how hard the NPC is perceived - a 2-2.5 second CHeal rot ensures that they will never get to deal more than 1 round of damage before the tank is fully healed.

AoW has a DB of 254 and a DI of 45. He also flurries.

Max hit with defensive = 254 + 10*45 = 704.
Bash/Kick damage is more or less the DB.

Max round = 704*8 + 254*2 = 5632 + 508 = 6140.

A few things with this. 1) It's possible to take a Riposte. 2) It's very rare for an NPC to connect every hit. 3) Even with high ATK, the odds of distribution of 8 consecutive Max DI are very low. 4) He's not always gonna flurry 4 extra attacks and a kick/bash.

Top end Kunark warriors are 5500 HP. With sidegrades to drop a lot of AC for HP, you can reach 5625 or so in just Kunark gear. Velious raid buffs (PoTG + Divine Strength + Focus of Spirit) add about 300 HP. Unlike other expansions, Velious 60 spells are incredibly common.

So, assuming absolutely no gear upgrades, you're looking at a 5925 HP warrior. Now, to even get to AoW, you'll be killing Vindi and Statue. You'll likely end up with a Vindi/Statue BP or Vindi Boots unless you are incredibly unlucky (common drops). If you aren't a retarded guild, your main targets will be Zland/Kland/Sont/LtK/Yelinak.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there to be 6k+ HP warriors within 24 hours of Velious launch. This is enough HP to realistically tank AoW for the duration defensive.

Now, I always get the DPS argument - our DPS don't have primal. So fucking what. DPS gains can more than be made up for by more players. Wu's Fists (assuming they don't get nerfed) are better than most monk weaponry. Ragebringer/RSS works great. Kael has a ton of great DPS pets.

How about the cleric mana argument? Well, if you ever raided Velious, you'll know that cleric gear didn't mean dick until the Luclin patch that nerfed mod rods. Velious is a buncha clerics starring at a wall, eating mod rods, counting to 3, and clicking a button.

The only 2 things that should prevent AoW from dying within 24 hours are 1) The Zone crashing. 2) A small guild blowing the spawn while everyone else is out getting ST keys.

[Brut]

1) The Zone crashing.
Looking at CT races wherein Fear is not able to support 120 people I srsly have a hard time imagining anything much dying on Velious opening when Kael alone is gonna be looking at some 300ish players.

[pasi]

I wonder how much of that is chalked up to aggroing the entire zone or the CT script.

[uygi]

Looking at CT races wherein Fear is not able to support 120 people I srsly have a hard time imagining anything much dying on Velious opening when Kael alone is gonna be looking at some 300ish players.

It would be really nice to think that with every damn target in Velious up at once, the server's raiding population would be split up enough to mitigate some of this. But yeah... you're probably right. I'd expect BDA, Taken, FE, IB, TMO and Divinity to ALL be at their highest raid attendance in server history that night.

But then again... just imagine if we could all come together and the server first AoW kill was a big huge group effort. That would be one fuck of a CCH.

[Brut]

I wonder how much of that is chalked up to aggroing the entire zone or the CT script.

Well, I've seen several of those 100+ player Trak socks in the day, and it's basically the same story.
US crowd with good connection survive the lag, but much everyone else is going to desync the moment autoattacks are flipped on.

And don't you need the key to go to Cobalt Scar and the zones beyond there (I think it's quest only at first?)? Kael is fastest access raid zone, it's going to be ridiculously crowded in there.

[uygi]

And don't you need the key to go to Cobalt Scar and the zones beyond there (I think it's quest only at first?)? Kael is fastest access raid zone, it's going to be ridiculously crowded in there.

You need the portal shards. The run through Velious really doesn't take that long.

[pasi]

You can kill Ziglark for the key.

Posted @ Sat, Dec 16th 2000 2:43 AM Score: Default[2.00]
He drops a "Shrine Key". Used to enter Cobalt Scars from clicking on the dragon with the fire pot in the "Court Yard" area in the little pond.

Posted @ Sat, Jan 6th 2001 7:12 AM Score: Decent[3.00]
Actually he does both, if you kill him you get the key, if you do the quest you get the key, just matters what faction you want to keep.

No need to quest it - he's level 30 or something with a few level 30 friends.

[Splorf22]

I wonder how much of that is chalked up to aggroing the entire zone or the CT script.

The problem the server has is that it has to update the position of N 'things' to M players. So with 100 players and 100 mobs it has to send 200 position/velocity tuples to 100 players multiple times per second. So from the server's perspective each update is 200 units * 100 players * 50 bytes (assuming 25 bytes header and 6 4-byte position/velocity fields) = 1MB. If you're trying to do this 10 times per second that can add up, and remember this is a quadratic algorithm. Quadratic algorithms do not scale well.

If we assume there is only 1 mob, it's pretty easy to solve for the number of players which will cause the same number of updates: 140.

There isn't really a good solution to this, but its probably better to gracefully degrade under pressure and update less frequently and hopefully in a semi-intelligent manner.

[Alarti0001]

You guys have killed 41% hasted DW'n Hoshkar - you've already killed a stronger version of Zlexak which is one of the harder NToV dragons. Not to mention you did so while under duress of trains.



I posted the math on the matter before, but AoW boils down to one thing - can you keep up a defensive warrior for a single round of his melee? If you can keep up a tank, it doesn't matter how hard the NPC is perceived - a 2-2.5 second CHeal rot ensures that they will never get to deal more than 1 round of damage before the tank is fully healed.

AoW has a DB of 254 and a DI of 45. He also flurries.

Max hit with defensive = 254 + 10*45 = 704.
Bash/Kick damage is more or less the DB.

Max round = 704*8 + 254*2 = 5632 + 508 = 6140.

A few things with this. 1) It's possible to take a Riposte. 2) It's very rare for an NPC to connect every hit. 3) Even with high ATK, the odds of distribution of 8 consecutive Max DI are very low. 4) He's not always gonna flurry 4 extra attacks and a kick/bash.

Top end Kunark warriors are 5500 HP. With sidegrades to drop a lot of AC for HP, you can reach 5625 or so in just Kunark gear. Velious raid buffs (PoTG + Divine Strength + Focus of Spirit) add about 300 HP. Unlike other expansions, Velious 60 spells are incredibly common.

So, assuming absolutely no gear upgrades, you're looking at a 5925 HP warrior. Now, to even get to AoW, you'll be killing Vindi and Statue. You'll likely end up with a Vindi/Statue BP or Vindi Boots unless you are incredibly unlucky (common drops). If you aren't a retarded guild, your main targets will be Zland/Kland/Sont/LtK/Yelinak.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there to be 6k+ HP warriors within 24 hours of Velious launch. This is enough HP to realistically tank AoW for the duration defensive.

Now, I always get the DPS argument - our DPS don't have primal. So fucking what. DPS gains can more than be made up for by more players. Wu's Fists (assuming they don't get nerfed) are better than most monk weaponry. Ragebringer/RSS works great. Kael has a ton of great DPS pets.

How about the cleric mana argument? Well, if you ever raided Velious, you'll know that cleric gear didn't mean dick until the Luclin patch that nerfed mod rods. Velious is a buncha clerics starring at a wall, eating mod rods, counting to 3, and clicking a button.

The only 2 things that should prevent AoW from dying within 24 hours are 1) The Zone crashing. 2) A small guild blowing the spawn while everyone else is out getting ST keys.

^^ This guy knows what sup. VP was farmed for a year now. TMO is going into Velious with an exponentially better geared force than ever occurred on live. Not to mention the hoards of nice rechargeable items we will be using for aggro/healing/dps etc. AoW might not last the first night. I'd give him a week though. Much of ST will be dead within 2 weeks.

[Brut]

You can kill Ziglark for the key.

No need to quest it - he's level 30 or something with a few level 30 friends.

Oh, coo. Was wondering if he'd be dropping it early Velious or if that was added later.

Huge sadface tho knowing some retarded knobends will permapoopsock & delete all keys to cockblock half Velious content.

[pasi]

Oh, coo. Was wondering if he'd be dropping it early Velious or if that was added later.

Huge sadface tho knowing some retarded knobends will permapoopsock & delete all keys to cockblock half Velious content.

As a fellow SK, run up to Yelinak. Maze = right, left, forward, back. Aggro a bunch of shit on the way then click the portal behind Yelinak. This will port you to the Wakening Land zone-in. Proceed to go right and then left into Ziggy's room. Patiently await as the entirety of Skyshrine comes to protect Dear Ziggy.

Alternatively, there's the bridge above the CS/fountain room where you can jump/levvie down. Alternatively, there's the fake floor on the right side of the fork past the FehDhar ascent that drops you to near the Dragon Tooth Choker guy.

You may eat a suspension, but Ziggy will be safe and sound.

[JayN]

Want to fix the P99 Raiding Scene?

Ramp up difficulty to Classic levels where it should be

Permanent Bans for Players and Guilds that perform deliberate zone disruptions

The End

Most people in this thread should be thankful of the current high end mechanics of the server.

Without them they wouldn't even have a remote chance at killing ANYTHING.

This is very true lol

[Arteker]

You guys have killed 41% hasted DW'n Hoshkar - you've already killed a stronger version of Zlexak which is one of the harder NToV dragons. Not to mention you did so while under duress of trains.



I posted the math on the matter before, but AoW boils down to one thing - can you keep up a defensive warrior for a single round of his melee? If you can keep up a tank, it doesn't matter how hard the NPC is perceived - a 2-2.5 second CHeal rot ensures that they will never get to deal more than 1 round of damage before the tank is fully healed.

AoW has a DB of 254 and a DI of 45. He also flurries.

Max hit with defensive = 254 + 10*45 = 704.
Bash/Kick damage is more or less the DB.

Max round = 704*8 + 254*2 = 5632 + 508 = 6140.

A few things with this. 1) It's possible to take a Riposte. 2) It's very rare for an NPC to connect every hit. 3) Even with high ATK, the odds of distribution of 8 consecutive Max DI are very low. 4) He's not always gonna flurry 4 extra attacks and a kick/bash.

Top end Kunark warriors are 5500 HP. With sidegrades to drop a lot of AC for HP, you can reach 5625 or so in just Kunark gear. Velious raid buffs (PoTG + Divine Strength + Focus of Spirit) add about 300 HP. Unlike other expansions, Velious 60 spells are incredibly common.

So, assuming absolutely no gear upgrades, you're looking at a 5925 HP warrior. Now, to even get to AoW, you'll be killing Vindi and Statue. You'll likely end up with a Vindi/Statue BP or Vindi Boots unless you are incredibly unlucky (common drops). If you aren't a retarded guild, your main targets will be Zland/Kland/Sont/LtK/Yelinak.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect there to be 6k+ HP warriors within 24 hours of Velious launch. This is enough HP to realistically tank AoW for the duration defensive.

Now, I always get the DPS argument - our DPS don't have primal. So fucking what. DPS gains can more than be made up for by more players. Wu's Fists (assuming they don't get nerfed) are better than most monk weaponry. Ragebringer/RSS works great. Kael has a ton of great DPS pets.

How about the cleric mana argument? Well, if you ever raided Velious, you'll know that cleric gear didn't mean dick until the Luclin patch that nerfed mod rods. Velious is a buncha clerics starring at a wall, eating mod rods, counting to 3, and clicking a button.

The only 2 things that should prevent AoW from dying within 24 hours are 1) The Zone crashing. 2) A small guild blowing the spawn while everyone else is out getting ST keys.

or giant charming working

[Alarti0001]

or giant charming working

I didn't want to mention this and I hope its not in game at release... It may be classic... but its dumb !

[pasi]

NPC aggro is different here, so Giant tanking won't be possible.

First and foremost, NPCs will not hold aggro over players in melee range.
Second, charm NPC gives threat to their charmer.

Both of these make Giants not able to tank!

However, this mechanic does make it so casters don't really have to worry about aggro. I'm pretty bad at explaining this (I've tried to a couple times to pals), but here goes:

Say you have a warrior, an enchanter with a pet, a cleric, and a wizard.

You engage a mob, lets say Vorash since he keeps the tank stunned a good deal of the fight. Let's say our warrior is literally permanently stunned in melee range.

The charmed pet is whacking the fuck out of Vorash, the cleric is dropping CHeals left and right, and the wizard is dropping his load into Vorash too, but the warrior with 1 threat is still tanking. Why is this? Well, the pet is actually the one holding aggro here - Vorash just won't pick another target until a PC passes the pet in hate. But, since Vorash will not attack the pet with a PC in melee range, the warrior is effectively tanking despite having 1 threat. (This is how Liia and I do Vorash, btw!)

You can use this to your advantage to slow/debuff mobs without worrying about dying or moving the mob.

[contemptor]

It would be really nice to think that with every damn target in Velious up at once, the server's raiding population would be split up enough to mitigate some of this. But yeah... you're probably right. I'd expect BDA, Taken, FE, IB, TMO and Divinity to ALL be at their highest raid attendance in server history that night.

But then again... just imagine if we could all come together and the server first AoW kill was a big huge group effort. That would be one fuck of a CCH.
Can't see it happening, but would be fun.

[Tanthallas]

You guys have killed 41% hasted DW'n Hoshkar - you've already killed a stronger version of Zlexak which is one of the harder NToV dragons. Not to mention you did so while under duress of trains.

This is the single most retarded argument I have heard in regards to velious. The only reason that other guilds have not killed hoshkar is because of training; when VP was on rotation, IB had killed Hoshkar consistently with fewer people.

Hoshkar - or any 32k mob which you can just melt down with over 30 people - is not a standard in any way for velious content.

[Arteker]

This is the single most retarded argument I have heard in regards to velious. The only reason that other guilds have not killed hoshkar is because of training; when VP was on rotation, IB had killed Hoshkar consistently with fewer people.

Hoshkar - or any 32k mob which you can just melt down with over 30 people - is not a standard in any way for velious content.

spam jboots

[Alarti0001]

This is the single most retarded argument I have heard in regards to velious. The only reason that other guilds have not killed hoshkar is because of training; when VP was on rotation, IB had killed Hoshkar consistently with fewer people.

Hoshkar - or any 32k mob which you can just melt down with over 30 people - is not a standard in any way for velious content.

TMO has killed Hoshkar with less than IB confirmed. Also, under train pressure :))))

[Jingleson]

I heard TMO lost a dragon to another guild tonight. EC chat exploded earlier.

[quido]

heaven forbid

[Alarti0001]

I heard TMO lost a dragon to another guild tonight. EC chat exploded earlier.

TMO obviously dying guild.

[Fazlazen]

This is the single most retarded argument I have heard in regards to velious. The only reason that other guilds have not killed hoshkar is because of training; when VP was on rotation, IB had killed Hoshkar consistently with fewer people.

Hoshkar - or any 32k mob which you can just melt down with over 30 people - is not a standard in any way for velious content.

IB never killed the quadding beefed up old version of Hoshkar legit. They'd bug out the AoE then kill it.

[Jingleson]

TMO obviously dying guild.

TMO needs a bat signal in the sky, visible from EC.

[Luchino]

http://i.imgur.com/5bwgokk.jpg

this gem was posted moments after motec applied tmo a few months back.

[Elements]

Oh it's Ascention, the guy we geared out, then you disappeared for school, then come back and split for TMO.

Let's go ahead and clarify that ragefire. We turned in the pearl first, then we trained out the giants to get a force into the lair and we were of course trained during our engage. Then you and Nizzler decided to just run an engage on human form claiming that we somehow lost our right with 5 minutes left on the clock, then we rightfully engage the dragon after you spawned it only to BLATANTLY trained by the two giants at the door courtesy of you.

Then afterwords during your engage I could have blatantly trained your attempt but I'm not an asshole.
.....

Don't fucking play the victim, you didn't even know what happened. Have fun being a mindless soldier in TMO.

So just to clarify some of the fallacies in your rant:

1. Yes BDA handed in the pearl first, after steamrolling us with a train as we prepped for a hand in.
2. Your train out to get forces in clearly didn't work as your members can be seen in the fraps running all over the place with agro.
3. Trained during your initial human form engage: correct, you trained yourselves thereby wiping whereby human form becomes FFA FTE.
4. Yes Nizzler and I engage the FFA human form after BDA members trained us while trying to leapfrog us to spawn him and wiped, thereby making the mob FFA FTE. 5 minutes left doesnt matter once you wipe. see:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667

Q: What rules pertain to raid mobs that are triggered spawns?
A: If a raid mob is triggered to spawn by killing a single mob before it (Example: Statue -> Idol -> Avatar of War), the guild that spawned the mob has 20 minutes to engage it. The mob is open to any other guild on a first to engage basis once the first guild has either wiped or not engaged within the time limit. -Rogean-

5. You claim to rightfully engage the dragon? See rule above and:

Q: What if our raid is disrupted? What if our raid interferes with another raid?
A: Any non-consensual disturbance or meddling from a raid which leads to another raid being disrupted will result in very harsh punishments. Anyone involved in disruptions will be banned for 1 week with possible action against their guild's leadership. Second offenses will be 2 weeks. Further offenses will be permanent. It is the responsibility of the raid leaders to control their members. We strongly suggest that you avoid other raids while in a zone.

In the video BDA members can clearly be seen KSing human form and spawning the dragon (raid interferance). Since it was our engage, we had 20 minutes to engage dragon form but again BDA commits raid interference.

6. You claim I spawned it yet the video clearly shows Goldberg landed the killing blow.

7. You then claim we trained you with the fire giants at the door when the video clearly shows that the ragefire aoe fear is what causes BDA to agro the giants during our engage of the mob no less.

8. So after all of these hmm lies? fallacies? made up nonsense? you claim I don't know what happened? C'mon Chest.

Apologies for the low quality of the video. I am a fraps newb and a video making newb and a you tube newb. This is my first ever vid and it turned out kinda crappy but its still easy to see whats going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7mjIgXSjw0

[Llodd]

blah blah, it's all your fault, no it's all your fault, no it's all your fault, no it's all your fault ad infinitum.

No, it's all of you.

[Jarnauga]

gotta love the director's cut audio commentary on fraps

srsly ? rofl "yeah they trained us you don't see it but i say so"

Also the people saying that velious is gonna fix it all are the same people that said kunark was gonna fix the raid scene in classic because more mobs. i mean yeah thanks, we can all have a shot at phinigel now..

[knix]

Jarn , from now on, because of your sig, I am going to ask you for Spirit of the Wolf.

Everytime :)

[Elements]

gotta love the director's cut audio commentary on fraps

srsly ? rofl "yeah they trained us you don't see it but i say so"



I know right. Oh well, chalk one up to being a fraps newb.

[Splorf22]

I skimmed through a bit while trying not to throw up watching those luclin models.

This 'wiped' rule is new to me but I like it. We raced Taken once and they turned in a pearl with a monk who promptly FDed for 20 minutes. So despite the fact that our raid force mobilized first, we didn't engage. A rule like that is kind of silly IMO.

From BDA's perspective the relevant part was probably the earlier 'action' which wasn't on the fraps.

The fraps does show feared BDA members training themselves with two more giants on the Ragefire engage contrary to Chest. Nizzler was off dying on his own. I still don't know how they managed to wipe to Ragefire + two giants with 10-12 people. I suppose they all had rez effects and low mana/hp . . . but still.

Ultimately I think this is yet another example of how EQ "competition" sucks: the game mechanics just don't support two raid forces in the same zone very well.

[Freakish]

It's pretty easy to wipe to Ragefire with 10-12. Especially if you're not all 60s decked out with resist gear, clicky root nets / heals, strings etc. The ae will destroy your buffs if your only clicky is jboots.

I honestly did not realize how overpowering root nets were until situations like this came up where nets can negate adds near instanteously.

[Sckrilla]

http://i.imgur.com/5bwgokk.jpg

this gem was posted moments after motec applied tmo a few months back.
Haha I don't even remember seeing that one!

[Autotune]

lol......just lol.

Well, you guys would often throw your small force (because people wouldn't log in anymore after getting epics) at VP dragons until they died (often because they stopped AEing). Hoshkarr was the one it happened on regularly.

[Rellapse35]

LOL @ BDA bunch of nonfactors HAHAHAHAHAH