Invulnerability Aggro Dump

[Daldaen]

How DA functions here:

You cast DA, and you drop to the lowest priority on the hatelist (1 point of aggro)
When DA ends, you revert to your previous aggro amount

How DA should function through PoPish:

You cast DA, and drop to the lowest priority on agro.
When DA ends or should you happen to remove it, you lose all agro (HOWEVER, low HP agro does kick in if when DA ends you still have agro... Which is a large reason why people didn't notice the agro drop since they often DA at low HP)

This goes for all invulnerability effects.

Evidence:

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums//showthread.php?t=14622

Quote:
Is it just me, or does Divine Aura not seem to be lowering ya on the mobs hate list anymore ?

I used to be able to DA, and then click off the buff almost instanty & have no aggro ( or at least less ), but since LoY this no longer seems to be working.

Belric
65 Archon
Solusek Ro

http://web.archive.org/web/200304300...threadid=14531

Quote:
... fixed, you will call it the way you want.
It seems that since the patch from yesterday, the DA spells are "working again" as intended, i.e, they dont wipe / lower you on the NPC aggro list anymore, they just temporarily lower your aggro, but as soon the invulnerability wears off, you regain your old aggro.

Another stealth change (why wasnt it mentionned in the patch message?) that affect all the DA classes (bard/necro/cleric/paladin) but that will particularly handicap the clerics.
I guess loosing the habit to click off DA DB as soon it pops as most the clerics used to, will be hard.

Get used to the "You will not evade me" message after DA/DB wears off in the future...

Dev Quote in that thread:

We didn't make any intentional changes to Divine Aura and how it reduces agro. I'll send this over to testing and get it checked out.

Thanks for bringing this up.

- Rich

[Vega]

Hmm, there were actually some patch notes, from somewhere in Velious (I think the same ones which changed the SK epic to be able to use bash with), which also mention changes to DA and aggro. I couldn't find them again with a quick search, but will update if I do.

[Daldaen]

I also searched for a patch note about it, but this is what I found.

[Ele]

This one Vega?

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010627.html

June 2001
Aggro Changes: We've made an adjustment to the way that NPCs choose their targets. It's a rather simple change, one that makes a lot of sense. But we want you to be aware of it so that it won't surprise you too much, and so that you won't think that it is a bug. NPCs are now much more aware of the vulnerability (or, more precisely, the invulnerability) of their targets. NPCs will now be very unlikely to waste their time attacking a target that they can't harm.


This one fixed DA tanking issues/exploits. This has already been implemented on P99.

It does not provide any assistance on the current issue of the aggro status after the invulnerability spell wears off.

[Vega]

Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. It has already been implemented on p99? Shouldn't it come later?

And sorry to derail OP, guess I have nothing to add to it.

[Daldaen]

I believe they added that one out of era after people killing PoSky using lots of shiny brass idols. But it certainly functions like that.

However on topic, it should dump your aggro to 1 point (it won't make them forget you completely you just become a non-issue if others are attacking it once it ends unless, as stated above, you have low HP).

[Ele]

Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. It has already been implemented on p99? Shouldn't it come later?

And sorry to derail OP, guess I have nothing to add to it.

Don't worry about it, nothing has been derailed. I was trying to think of the same patch message last night, but it wasn't coming to me. Your post jogged my memory this morning to find it. :D


That particular change should come later, but I can understand why the devs would implement it before hand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c9s7pj4ors

[Ele]

This thread (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14001)from January 2003 on EQ Clerics has a pretty good discussion on DA mechanics spanning the time line. The last couple of pages get into a deep discussion on how hate lists are built, which may need to be addressed in a separate post. I've linked some of the quotes from it below near the bottom of this post.


November 22, 2000
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1803
I usually only have DB up when I'm in a good group that is worth dieing for, otherwise gate is in it's place.

I have another question about these spells though. Has anyone noticed (at least DA) seems to temporarily drop you from the hate list?
I heal the puller on a big pull and taunt 4 or 5 of the mobs on to me. DA goes up and after a round the mobs go back to whoever is next highest on hate list. Unless those mobs get taunted, as soon as DA wears off or I cancel it, I get rushed by the mobs.
Just wondering if this is normal or I just suck

Same thread
Kaharz, my experience has been that DA will cause the mobs to beat on someone nearby if they have reason to. I have seen mobs try to hit me several times when I am DA'd if there is no one else nearby they are aggro'd on. And yes, once the invulnerability fades, they come back with a vengeance.

Both spells reduce aggro of mobs tremendously. Get some space between you and the mob and it will not come back unless you are the last one alive. I am sure there are execptions to this of course.

Kaharz it is an awesome detaunt if used properly. Number one thing you need to do is get out of melee range while DA is active. I call this 'training the tanks'. If you have an unwanted mob or two after you cast an early heal pop off DA then run right through the melee guys and continue out of range.

Note this will NOT work on most mobs if they are 'frenzied' at you. Most mobs frenzy when you hit 30% health, so if you are waiting until you are down to a bub of health to cast DA/DB you waited too long. You have probably seen this yourself when healing a caster near death and your warrior can't taunt the mob off. As soon as that heal hits the mob turns immediately back to the warrior because you brought the caster up over 30% health.

I use DA/DB routinely to detaunt mobs even if I have plenty of health. Saves a lot of frantic running about by tanks trying to draw mobs off the cleric and most don't realize it is a click-off buff. You don't have to wait 18 seconds to cast a spell, simply click the flashing icon once you have cleared the mobs and you are ready to start healing again. As long as I have 30% health and get out of melee range mobs rarely return to me.

This one does not jive with the later fix to invulnerable NPC AI patch in June 2001. It also does not jive with the position of the OP.

November 28, 2000
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1803
Divine Barrier comes up when we get a big nasty pull and I have to do an early heal. I'll heal tank to full, and go to the other side of the room with 3 or 4 in tow. Divine Barrier, and have a seat. With a little luck, the party will finish the first, and taunt one or two off of me before it drops. Divine barrier heals me a little, and its for situations where I *chose* to go invulnerable. Divine aura, with its fast casting time, is when I can't get the barrier off, or I really just need an "oh hell" escape.

Threads from before the one linked in OP.

January 1, 2003
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13912&highlight=Invulnerability&page=3
It's important to realize that the reduction in aggro from DA/DB is only temporary... you regain that when the effect is taken off. Usually the tanks will be building up enough aggro to move you down the list, but if that's not happening, you will want to do what you can to reduce your own aggro (move further from mob, etc)

Good points about the low-HP aggro issue...I used DA recently and took a few steps back. I quickly lost aggro from being invulnerable, so thought I could click it off and heal myself...but Nooo, the baddie made a B-line right at me and finished me off! Guess next time if I DA with low HPs I'll get out of aggro range before clicking it off.

January 17, 2003
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14001&highlight=Invulnerability
When DA wears off, you go back to your normal place in the agro line... minus whatever agro you lose over time and others gain. if that puts you near teh top.. your dragon kibble.

DA does not clear aggro, simply gives others time to build up their aggro. Remember before DA was tuned, how mobs would still often go after the DA'ed cleric? The tuning merely made mobs smarter, so they'd realize that attacking an invulnerable person was pointless if there's another person nearby.

Often it will only take a few seconds for the tank to regain a good hold on aggro, so that may make it seem like DA eliminates aggro, but it doesn't. I've had it happen where if I click off DA too soon on raids, that the mob would come right back onto me, even without low health aggro.

Case in point: A monk was coming back with a mob to the raid. I threw a heal on him WAY too early, and I knew it, so I DB'ed immediately after healing him, being at full health still. About 7-10 seconds later, with the mob at the raid, being tanked, I took off DB and got promptly beaten to a pulp.

DA/DB has never cleared aggro. All it does is make it seem that you're out of melee range, which is why the mob will usually turn away and start whacking on something else. Of course, if you're still in melee range and your tanks haven't taken over the top spot on the hate list, the mobs run right back to you when DA/DB wears off.

How DA works ...
It makes you invulnerable

All mobs drop invulverable targets to the bottom of their hate list (they used not to hence the old days of a da sitting cleric being MT :P .

Soon as you are no longer invulnerable you appear in exactly the same spot in the hate list you were in.

Hopefully after 18 seconds the tanks have built up enough tuant that it forgets you... unless you went da under 30% in which case soon as da is off the mob is going to go after you becuase 1. you are on the hate list and 2. you are below 30% (bam you on top of the hate list)

what verant did was simply change the mob ai to ignore you while DA . nothing more . DA was not changed as a spell in any way . this had the effect of sending the mobs right back at the next highest person on the hate list , preferably the tank , and allowed them time to build aggro while you were invulnerable . when DA dropped some 18 seconds later hopefully someone else was high enough on the hate list that they wouldnt come back after you . so while the spell itself has no inherent hate reduction associated with it , it gives others the time to build hate , in effect placing you lower on the hate list . this is why so many people think da is an aggro reduction spell , when in fact it simply gives others time to build hate above your own .

so on the face of it it would seem we are arguing semantics but we are not .

if da worked as a total aggro reduction spell that many people beleive it is then we wouldnt have these threads pop up so often about da not CLEARING aggro . it is important to understand exactly how a spell functions to get the maximum benefit out of it . if the spell worked as you believed it would work in all situations all the time , and as you admit it doesnt . saying sometimes one mob or maybe two will come back at you proves that the spell doesnt work as you think it does .

[Daldaen]

I'm still reading through it, but DB had a damage shield apparently... I read that in some other post too.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20030826.html

Divine Barrier no longer has a damage shield component and has gained three times the healing effect.

That isn't in currently is it? I haven't noticed any DS on my cleric.

[Ele]

I'm still reading through it, but DB had a damage shield apparently... I read that in some other post too.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20030826.html



That isn't in currently is it? I haven't noticed any DS on my cleric.

Whether or not it had it during Classic->Velious would just be a matter of checking the spell files. This Feb. 2000 post on EQ Clerics identifies it as having a damage shield and regen component. As some of the posters mention, even if it does have a DS component, the mob cannot connect so the DS isn't effective for anything but creating stacking issues.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6213

From EQCaster:

Divine Barrier
--------------

Description:

Divine Aura
Damage Shield from 25(L29) to 41(L60)
Regeneration for between 90(L29) to 183(L60) Hit Points (HP) in 3 ticks

--blah blah snip--



A few threads from 2002 and 2003 detailing stacking issues with detrimental spells and beneficial spells (Spirit of the Wood).

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5841

The list of spells I linked to are spells that have stacking issues with DB. It doesnt directly say if DB will overwrite - or if the other spell will present DB from landing. Thats up to the reader to decide.

Generally though - a larger positive effect will overwrite a small positive effect (of the exact same type in the same slot). Example - Symbol of Marzin will overwrite Symbol of Naltron - because they have HP in the same slot and Marzin is larger.

Further, a negetive effect will overwrite a positive effect (again, of the exact same type in the same slot) - which is why

Overfiends Fury
1: Lure(6)
2: Decrease Attack Speed by 5%
3: Decrease HP when cast by 100
4: Decrease Hitpoints by 20 per tick

will block

Divine Barrier
1: Invunerability
2: Increase Damage Shield by 25 (L29) to 36 (L50)
4: Increase Hitpoints by 30 (L29) to 51 (L50) per tick

They both have the effect "Increase/Decrease Hitpoints by xxx per tick" in slot 4.
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14233
Yes, there is a DS component, but the problem was the Heal over time part, not the DS. (X: denotes the slot the spell would go in, different types of spells can share the same slot, same type of spells can be in different slots, but the same spells can't be in the same slot.)

So since DB used to have a HoT in 4, which gave lower regen than the HoT in spirit of the woods fourth slot, they didn't stack. Now, they've changed the HoT part on DB to a DD heal, so they are no longer conflicting.


Divine Barrier
1: Divine Aura
2: Damage Shield from 25 (L29) to 36 (L50)
4: Increase Current Hitpoints from 90 (L29) to 153 (L50)


Spirit of the Wood
4: Increase Heal over Time by 250 (L1)
8: Damage Shield by 55 (L1)
9: Increase Armor Class (AC) by 48 (L1)

[Daldaen]

Posts in the 2003 thread you linked:

And you know how? Besides, you're WRONG.

DA used to do "nothign else" and "do nothing to hate". This gave rise to DA tanking strat. In response, VI made it do SOMETHING to hate. So in that, you are very clearly wrong. That's why if you say, sat at a mobs feet while normal, the mob will hit you. While DA, if you sit at a mobs feet, it will still ignore you.

Before this change, if you sat at a mobs feet while DA, it did nothing to aggro; and that is why the mob would keep on beating the CLR.

I like how people state irrevocably how it works, yet the aggro affect on DA/DB is done serverside, and it is not contained in the Spdat.

So if you have proof, then show it.

BTW, to the person who said "pull multi mobs, CH, then DA, mobs will go back to you"...

I do this. I've tested this. And they don't. After DA they ignore me until i do something else. Sometimes one will come back to me, sometimes two. But usually they don't. And if it did nothing, 3 should come at me (the 4th is being occupied by tank).

My current theory is that it tinkers with a secondary part of the hate list, that is proximity. This would be why if you DA, you're effectively at the end of the hate list, but you are not. It lists you at "accross the zone" or whatever aggro.

Again I'm not saying you're wrong, but from all I've experienced most of what peopel are saying is completely different from my experience.

BTW, I tested it. Multi pull in POA in POP, DVA'd then did WoRevivis... All mobs on me (3), hit DA immediately, was at 40% HP... And took DA off. Mobs did not go at me, even though a few were still not tanked (tank death). They went after people who had done one heal, which i assure you is magnitudes less then a full WoRevivs.
Last edited by Schatze : 01-18-2003 at 08:48 PM.



01-18-2003, 08:50 PM #33
Heihachi
Ragefire Camper 2.0

Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 364

DA clears almost all aggro. I can easily toss a early CH on a multi-pull, DA off the aggro nearly instantly and click off DA to keep going. However if you were low health when you got your DA off, you'll probably be low health when it drops and you'll draw aggro again from health frenzy. Lately I've taken to just using DA or DB as much as possible.

They keep pointing out the mobs didn't go back to them, HOWEVER, with low HP/sitting they will. Which is often when people are DAing which leads to the common misconception you stay at same point in aggro list.

[Ele]

There are just as many people that say mobs go back to them even without sitting/low hp aggro if the tank or someone else hasn't gotten higher on the hate list.

Often it will only take a few seconds for the tank to regain a good hold on aggro, so that may make it seem like DA eliminates aggro, but it doesn't. I've had it happen where if I click off DA too soon on raids, that the mob would come right back onto me, even without low health aggro.

CH aggro and heal aggro in general probably needs to be upped some.

[Zapatos]

How it worked on eqmac was that DA would leave you essentially at 1pt of aggro when it wore off. For example, you could have a bard da song a group of wizards/dps on long fights so that their aggro could be 'reset' to 1 and they could just unload.

It was not a commonly known or needed tactic. I read about it on some classic bard strategy/"exploits" thread.

edit: just to highlight, I found out about the aggro reset trick from a classic live eq forum that talked about old tricks and tried it on Al'Kabor and found it was still in an un-nerfed state. It was not eqmac exclusive.

[Daldaen]

It did indeed function like that on EQMac. I raided as a Cleric/Bard/Druid 3-box most often there, and my Druid had 2x DA earring to chain recharge. I would regularly use DA as an aggro dump when chain nuking on the Druid or as the bard in a caster group. Or the cleric when the engaging CH got me aggro.

It functioned like that 100% on Live at some point in time, and got nerfed around when LoY launched as is stated in one of the first posts I quoted. I think it functioned like this from the time they changed aggro-holding-while-DA til LoY.

[Ele]

Interesting, didn't know that about EQMac.

[Daldaen]

Can provide logs if necessary from there. I explicitly spent 700k+ on a set of DA Earrings to utilize this mechanic on long raids where Druid nukes would generally get me summoned if/when the tank died.

[Daldaen]

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7155

Now the important thing is that the bard have the DA song "Kazumi's Note of Preservation" When sung everyone in the group who is within the radius of the song becomes invincible like the priest class DA spell. The cool thing is though... when your grouped with a bard and they group DA song... it wipes your agro down to 1 point.

So basically it works like this. You have one wizard in the group who will call nukes and DA. Once the fight is in progress and the mob is suitably agro'd on your main tank, that wizard calls "nuke" everyone then begins to chain cast nukes on the mob. When the agro is building to a level where Wizard death is imminent, the "DA" call is made. At the point all the wizards lose all thier agro but one point. You can then chain nuke again. Kazumi's Note of Preservation has a refresh time of 3 minutes, so on a long fight you may want to have 2 bards in the group or swap out the bard once DA is used with a bard with it ready to go. If the fight is going to be long, and your short on bards, it is a good idea to nuke / concuss / nuke / concuss to extend the duration between DA's as you have only one bard available. Also, once the DA song hits, you can click it off without having to wait for it to run it's full duration and still get the agro wipe.

This is the tactic we used on EQMac for long fights where we were low on DPS (Seru cause f getting melee banes) or fights where positioning was extremely important and letting someone move the mob via over-aggro meant a wipe (Fennin Ro).

[wycca]

Bump -

Found another account to support when DA wears off it clears agro -

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6050
Grumbles - 12/08/02 - "Another time when we were feeding Sontalak I DA'd right at the end and sat down to med hoping for enough to get out one more CH, Sont ate the last melee, I was DA so he buggered off to the front of the tunnel again hehe."

[Daldaen]

Loved this mechanic on EQMac. Really hope we can find a bit more evidence to narrow down its functionality time period.

Again it should drop your to the LOWEST point on the aggro list. But not off the list entirely.

So you can DA and immediately click it off and its as though you had just a single point of body aggro. Things like low HP aggro would still function though so if you lose DA with low HP aggro you would have 1 point of aggro + Low HP Aggro. Sit aggro would also add to your 1 point if you were sitting.

[Coffee]

Ele:

As some of the posters mention, even if it does have a DS component, the mob cannot connect so the DS isn't effective for anything but creating stacking issues.

u sure bout that?

[Ele]

The DS component and regen amounts on Divine Barrier were slightly reduced after Kunark's release.

3/21/2000 (Pre-Kunark) SPdat
Divine Barrier
Divine Aura
Damage Shield from 25 (L29) to 41 (L60)
Regeneration for between 90 (L29) to 183 (L60) Hit Points (HP) in 3 ticks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classes: Clr (L29)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill: Abjuration
Allowable Targets: Self

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Check: None

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mana Required: 100
Spell Duration: 3 ticks (18 seconds)
Duration Formula: 1
Casting Time: 2.0 seconds
Spell Recovery: 5.0 seconds
Recast Delay: 900.0 seconds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell cast on you: You are surrounded by a divine barrier.
Spell cast on someone: Soandso is surrounded by a divine barrier.
Spell fades: The barrier fades.

9/19/2000 (Epic Quest Patch) SPDat File
Divine Barrier
Divine Aura
Damage Shield from 25 (L29) to 36 (L50)
Regeneration for between 90 (L29) to 153 (L50) Hit Points (HP) in 3 ticks


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classes: Clr (L29)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill: Abjuration
Allowable Targets: Self

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Check: None

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mana Required: 100
Spell Duration: 3 ticks (18 seconds)
Duration Formula: 1
Casting Time: 2.0 seconds
Spell Recovery: 5.0 seconds
Recast Delay: 900.0 seconds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell cast on you: You are surrounded by a divine barrier.
Spell cast on someone: Soandso is surrounded by a divine barrier.
Spell fades: The barrier fades.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


4/21/2001 (Mid-Velious) SPDat
Divine Barrier
Divine Aura
Damage Shield from 25 (L29) to 36 (L50)
Regeneration for between 90 (L29) to 153 (L50) Hit Points (HP) in 3 ticks


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Classes: Clr (L29)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skill: Abjuration
Allowable Targets: Self

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Resistance Check: None

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mana Required: 100
Spell Duration: 3 ticks (18 seconds)
Duration Formula: 1
Casting Time: 2.0 seconds
Spell Recovery: 5.0 seconds
Recast Delay: 900.0 seconds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spell cast on you: You are surrounded by a divine barrier.
Spell cast on someone: Soandso is surrounded by a divine barrier.
Spell fades: The barrier fades.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ele]

u sure bout that?

Just tested using both Divine Barrier alone and Divine Aura + a mage damage shield. Rooted mob at 100%, applied DB first, sat under aggroed mob. It swung a dozen times and never dipped below 100% or gave damage shield report. Backed out of range, applied mage DS and Divine Aura, sat back in range of mob still at 100% and it got another dozen swings and never dipped below 100%.

[Coffee]

Just tested using both Divine Barrier alone and Divine Aura + a mage damage shield. Rooted mob at 100%, applied DB first, sat under aggroed mob. It swung a dozen times and never dipped below 100% or gave damage shield report. Backed out of range, applied mage DS and Divine Aura, sat back in range of mob still at 100% and it got another dozen swings and never dipped below 100%.

interesting i feel like i've seen ds damage with DA in PvP, will have to check it out later and report back

[derpcake]

Afaik it always left you with at least 1 point of agro on eqlive.

You can't really tell me every class with access to DA could wipe agro with them and that would not be widely known.

Cleric runs to nagafen lair, makes sharp corner, casts & clicks DA?

No way :)

[Daldaen]

Afaik it always left you with at least 1 point of agro on eqlive.

You can't really tell me every class with access to DA could wipe agro with them and that would not be widely known.

Cleric runs to nagafen lair, makes sharp corner, casts & clicks DA?

No way :)

This is confirmed. It did not function to blur your enemies.

But basically as an aggro reset. You remain on everything's hatelist, but any aggro you had up to the point, was dropped to the minimum value. This is probably a relic of how they coded the DA change to prevent DA Tanks back in the day. Where when DA is on you, you get dropped to lowest priority target on hatelist.

The Hate dump should function the same. But when you lose DA or when you click it, you retain that new 1-point of aggro position on the hatelist.

[Daldaen]

Bump.

DAing should drop you down to the lowest point on aggro, removing all hate you have attained up to the point you DA'd but it should keep you on hate lists.

P99 Example:


Cleric Generates 5000 Points of Hate (Warrior has 4000 points of Hate here)
Mob attacks Cleric
Cleric Casts DA
Mob switches back to attacking Warrior while Cleric's DA is active.
Cleric Continues having 5000 Points of Hate (Warrior somehow only got up to 4500 points of Hate while cleric was DA)
Cleric clicks off DA or DA fades naturally
Mob resumes attacking Cleric


Classic Example:


Cleric Generates 5000 Points of Hate (Warrior has 4000 points of Hate here)
Mob attacks Cleric
Cleric Casts DA
Mob switches back to attacking Warrior while Cleric's DA is active.
naturally
Cleric has dropped down to 1 Point of Hate (Warrior somehow only got up to 4500 points of Hate while cleric was DA)
Cleric clicks off DA or DA fades naturally
Mob Continues attacking Warrior


The DAing person should never be able to DA and when dropped cause a mob to forget about them and wander off. It should always remember you. But it should NOT remember the extent to which it hated you, it should act as though you just have 1 point of body aggro after DA has been cast, even after DA has ended. Until you do something again to piss it off.

[Daldaen]

Bump. DA should function as an aggro dump, removing most hate you accrued over a fight the second DA is cast. When clicked off you remain on aggro list but any hate you generated before DA is gone.

[Daldaen]

Bump for classic mechanics

[Phantasm]

In the name of all that is Classic I bump thee!

[MaciejP]

I remember using Bard DA on live in the Velious era with a group full of wizards to drop there agro so they can nuke more.
It definitely did drop agro to min level as stated in this thread.

[Daldaen]

Worked like that on Al'Kabor and should work like that here.

[smocksmocksmock]

Yeah, on Al'Kabor invulnerability didn't remove your name from hate lists, but it did set your threat to 1. It's kind of a silly/exploitable mechanic when coupled with bards' group DA song, but it did indeed exist.

[Daldaen]

Bump. All Invulnerability effects should immediately drop your position in the Hate list to the bare minimum value, even after the invulnerability effect has worn off.

[Daldaen]

Bump. All Invulnerability effects should immediately drop your position in the Hate list to the bare minimum value, even after the invulnerability effect has worn off.

[Daldaen]

Yea this is my dream.

Bards being put in Bane wizard groups to burn group DA for an aggro dump mid fight is so classic. One of the few group synergy mechanics and we don't even have it here :(.

[Daldaen]

It was native to the game that's how they fixed DA Tanking, by making the DA function as a hate removal. Having mobs not prioritize DA people was a later change beyond PoP when using this became too powerful.

[Daldaen]

Bump for this classic mechanic. Worked on EQMac. This is how it was from the DA aggro fix in classic until the short duration window introduction in LoY from what I can tell.

[Rogean]

Giving the classes that have DA an aggro drop is way too powerful and doesn't sound intentional. I don't recall this being the case in any of my time in classic, otherwise we wouldn't have seen issues with clerics and aggro management during a boss fight and tank swaps, etc. Specifically, we also remember people using CotH during classic to lower cleric aggro (Which wouldn't be necessary if they could DA), AND we also have the whole Conquest incident (combination of CotH and hiding clerics so they couldn't be pathed to, prior to summon being implemented).

There's just too much evidence against this, as well as being way too strong in game balancing.

[Daldaen]

I don't think their intent was for it to be an aggro dump, that was just the way for them to figure out the DA Tanking issue from earlier in classic.

The Cleric aggro issue on engages was due to a bad roll on the CH witness check and warriors not using click aggro on engage.

It definitely existed on Al'Kabor, and there is evidence about the tactic with bards using Group DA on bards.

While I do understand this would shake up the balance of the current meta, there are far more imbalanced things on P99 than this would be. The extreme use of clicky aggro and clicky instant CHs for example. Plenty of other Titanium client related things that also are imbalanced compared to the classic era like Cycle Target and scroll wheel to 3rd person.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9opZFThy95w

This Cleric does a group CH on Sontalak and immediately DAs and clicks it off a little after. As a way to burn aggro.

[Spit]

I am sorry that the players on your server were not aware how DA works but on my server of Tallon Zek this was a WELL known mechanic used in PVE and PVP to get mobs off you for a bit.



There is 0 evidence against this and is not as OP as some of the unclassic things still on this server, It does not wipe your agro on a mob only puts you in the bottom of the agro list. Reading the first page on this thread
Gives you 100% proof that this is classic and should be on p99.


I have seen a trend in the bug fix section where classic things that make life harder on players are implemented very quick while anything that slightly helps players is ignored for years. If it is the intention of the staff to make things harder and not classic thats fine, but tell your player base what you want.

Agreed.
Seems like classic mechanics are hand picked here.

[Doctor Jeff]

Agreed.
Seems like classic mechanics are hand picked here.

this stems from the fact that the devs do this as a hobby and not because they play, like, or understand everquest.

[Haynar]

this stems from the fact that the devs do this as a hobby and not because they play, like, or understand everquest.

U mad bro?

[Doctor Jeff]

U mad bro?

no, enig just always complains that you put in fixes at random, and I always tell him its not random. It's whatever is easy, fun, or they want to work on.

[Haynar]

no, enig just always complains that you put in fixes at random, and I always tell him its not random. It's whatever is easy, fun, or they want to work on.

Pretty much.

I had the aggro dump coded. It got voted down.

[Cwall 146.0]

that went out the door a long time ago m8

[Rogean]

It will never happen. Having DA on puts you in last priority on target selection, but only while it is active. Once it wears off you're back to where you were. It never was and never will be a complete aggro drop.

[Dolalin]

It will never happen. Having DA on puts you in last priority on target selection, but only while it is active. Once it wears off you're back to where you were. It never was and never will be a complete aggro drop.

Rogean, with all due respect, you're wrong on this one. A complete aggro wipe ala mem blur isn't what's been established:

Again it should drop your to the LOWEST point on the aggro list. But not off the list entirely.

I'm just wondering if there's been a misunderstanding or misreading here.

[Doctor Jeff]

I'm just wondering if there's been a misunderstanding.

I definitely think there is...

This is a privately owned everquest emulator, not a democracy.

[Dolalin]

This is a privately owned everquest emulator, not a democracy.

That's pretty trite and unneeded. Rogean is obviously free to decide what he wants, but it's in everybody's interest (including the people who choose to play here, versus say Agnar) that the play experience be as close to classic EQ as possible.