Etiquette in Blackburrow...?!

[Unferth]

Hey guys!

I'm a bit new to the server, but I've been having a good time reliving my old EQ experiences. I'm stoked to have found a Classic EQ server that resembles the glory days, and I've had a lot of fun leveling a Rogue and now a Druid.

If I can be straight-forward, one thing that's not so cool, though, is the general etiquette /manners/behavior I've seen in the Blackburrow zone in the Qeynos Hills.

On this server, it seems like the norm for 20+ toons to camp outside/inside of Blackburrow and clear mass amounts of green-conning Gnolls for their fangs. I know that turning in the Gnoll Fangs grants a massive XP boost from levels 1-24, but what the heck ever happened to courtesy?

There are literally over 1k people on this server at primetime, with 10+ people on average in Blackburrow at any given time on the weekends. With a crowd of level 6-10s trying to group up and struggle for XP kills, how can any 16+ that cons green to all the Gnolls justify slaughtering green con mobs for the offchance of getting a fang?! That's just greedy.

For the past few nights, I've been appalled to see level 19s + camp all the low level spawns outside the entrance of blackburrow while on my level 6 Druid trying to grind. I send them tells, politely asking them to move deeper, but they just respond saying they were there first.

If you think I am just a whiny noob, I even have screenshot proof that Blackburrow is ridiculously offensive to noobs trying to level. When I was fighting on my level 12ish Rogue, another Dwarf rogue of a MUCH higher level named Bahkrel (at least 20 because he had a surname, but he was ANON) came up and backstabbed my Gnoll as I was fighting and just barely did under 50% damage. After the fight ended, he just sat there and did not acknowledge me so I /cough /rude him, and he wakes up and asks me if I know about the Rogue double backstab glitch. I tell him I've noticed that the server generally causes double attacks for killing blows (at least from what I've seen), and the rest of the conversation was as follows...

http://postimg.org/image/g23ygktyh/

He proceeded to follow me for like the next 4+ fights and took my kills by out-damaging me and insulting me. I got fed up with it, logged into my Druid and petitioned a GM for harassment. (The GMs still have not responded to me 4 days later after regular play. but whatever, I get it). When I logged into my Druid, I tried to fight the low-levelled Gnolls at the entrance but I was unluckily competing against an 18 wizard and 19 cleric, both that were soloing on their own and collecting gnoll fangs. I sent them tells, and they acted like I was an asshole for expecting level 18s to NOT be hunting in a level 5 zone. Seriously? a 19 cleric soloing? Why even roll a cleric?!

My question is, I guess, what the hell?! Is this normal behavior, and should I just roll an Iksar Necromancer and forget about socializing with people in this game? The reason I left the other shitty themepark MMOs with crappy communities is because, well, they had crappy communities.

Anyways, I'm not sure why I'm posting this other than to hopefully to ask a question. What is the acceptable level for hunting in Blackburrow? Is it actually OK for people to horde Gnoll Fangs their whole lives until they level to 30? or should they leave the nest at 16?

I will admit I made this post a bit angrily, so sorry if it comes off as a rant.

[StinkyGreenBud]

That is the norm for BB. Every toon for them selves pretty much in that zone. The rest of the world is much better behaved.

[jaybone]

This really makes the thread where a GM responds to someone calling a person in TMO a faggot in a few minutes embarrassing.

[bartly]

Problem solved.

Come to red99. Someone steals your kill? Kill them.

Or die tryin.

[Rathnir]

People are pretty buckwild about their gnoll fangs, I don't quite get it. Not aware of other more interesting things to do, I suppose. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment of your post, but I will point out a few things (not to trying to aggravate, just information):


"/report Bahkrel" will send the GMs a log of the last 10 lines of text interaction (/tell, /say, /ooc etc., not melee hits)

/petition gets heavily bogged down, often with pretty inane things. You will get a much better response if you leave a single long (informative) petition then two short ones.

The elites, splitpaw commanders, gnoll high shaman and maybe a few others I'm forgetting are still dark blue at level 17. So some of those people are still viably getting experience from fighting in the zone. I was on an alt the other day taking a 3 spawn of the elites, and eventually just gave up on it when a level 9 ranger and his ~50 ranger friend were clearing the whole zone top to bottom, checking the only 3 I was after every round.


The rogue you encountered is a pretty bad welcoming committee to the server, and poorly represents the other players around. But I highly recommend the "que sera" mentality. You can't fix stupidity or greed. You will come across both here at every level.

[purpherb]

My toon is camped in bb and has been for the past few levels. I have found that the norm is a bunch of lvl 12+ characters running around the zone farming fangs, which I do as well. But there is also people who are under level 10. When I first got to bb though I formed a group and we camped the bridge. I have done this multiple times without trouble. There was still people running through the zone, but when we were camped on the bridge our mobs were generally left to us.

I don't think you should tell people they are too high to farm there because they obviously are not. If they were too high than they would not be getting xp and it would be a waste of time for them, but it is not because those fangs grant massive xp. If you approach someone the wrong way it will only get worse for you.

Sorry that some guy was a prick to you, I have had lmvery few problems in the hours I have been in bb and actually know many of the other farmers there and we all say hi and help each other as needed (giving me those furs for a quest). Since bb has such a high xp rate the competition is to be expected, but the griefing is not. If you want a chance at such good xp than you will have to find yourself a spot like everyone else does or just go to a different zone where the xp is not so great.

[Doors]

Roll red, kill person annoying you, loot gnoll fang.

[Quineloe]

I don't know if petition here works like it did 15 years ago, but back then when you double petition, you just delete the first one. Don't think of petition as /tell gm.

Even if it doesn't, you should try to make as long a statement as possible. If writing the petition is only worth 5 seconds of your time...

[Fregar]

Complaining in or about blackburrow doesn't bring anything good imo.

I've never had any serious problem in this zone o.0
Some peoples even saved me from certain death several times.
The rogue thing is a unusual behavior. Did you provoke him?

It can be annoying to see lvl 20 peoples when you are lvl 8, but what can you say when you might be the one lvl 20 a few days later?
Peoples are still killing greens because the xp from fangs is obviously worth it.
Getting the xp from a blue mob or from a green drop is the same thing in the end: xp per time invested.

Etiquette is this zone roughly is:
_there is no camp, everything is FFA
_first to engage gets the mob(s)
_no ks
_no complaining

[BahamutDF]

BB is kind of a free for all. But in a weird way, for me, it's always kind of been a polite FFA. I'd get random buffs, heals, etc one second from a stranger, then be competing with them for pops the next, and after we'd be bullshitting together.

Never had any problems.

[Mirana]

I struggled when I took my toon to BB as well, but you have to change your mindset sometimes.

Getting the xp from a blue mob or from a green drop is the same thing in the end: xp per time invested.

The above quote is exactly true. In the end, we all play the game our own way. A lot of times, the way people play you feel is unfair or stupid, which is fine. Rather than focus on what I think others should do, I focus on what I can do. Go to a different zone, try to find obscure camps, or simply log on a different character in another part of the world.

As for the rogue that was ks'ing you, he is the minority. An overwhelming number of people I've met on this server have been exceedingly kind and helpful. It really has shocked me.

[Swish]

Patch in some trivial loot code, same crap is happening in CB most days.

[Gnomersy]

You'll come to realize there Is a direct correlation between ZEM and number of assholes in any given zone. Tends to be the higher the ZEM the more there are. It really gets bad when the GMs turn on worldwide bonus exp.

[Juhstin]

Problem solved.

Come to red99. Someone steals your kill? Kill them.

Or die tryin.

[Teako]

Any chance of you guys not spamming every single thread in the *blue* forums with Red banter? We get it, you have nobody to play with. I'm sorry.

[Quineloe]

Patch in some trivial loot code, same crap is happening in CB most days.

Don't know about that, 6 legio pads I turned in yesterday were only 1 blue bubble at 18. When I leveled in CB, I didn't notice any high levels farming pads and belts. I did notice a certain ogre warrior who would loot as many belts and pads as he could, then he /q'ed out when people asked him not to hog stuff. He later sold them in gfay.

[Rooj]

"/report Bahkrel" will send the GMs a log of the last 10 lines of text interaction (/tell, /say, /ooc etc., not melee hits)

I thought /report didn't work on P99?

[veejur]

To the original poster: there are a lot of really cool people on this server and you'll meet more of them as you continue to level. Unfortunately, it seems that the pre-level 30 zones are where it is most common to see people do stuff like this. My recommendation would be to leave Blackburrow and get an orc group in East Commonlands.

1. Ask in ooc "I'm a new character to the server trying to get to commonlands, would anyone out there mind helping me with a discounted port so I can get there?".

2. When you get to the commonlands, run to freeport and use ooc to ask for a bind.

3. Go to the EC tunnel and ask for buffs politely from the crowd via say. It may take a little bit but the main thing is to ask politely and not demand or use grammar that makes you sound like a moron - you'll get ignored.

4. Solo stuff around the dunes (run to tunnel if the air elemental aggros) or get in an orc group. You can ooc "Level 8 rogue LFG for orcs" or whatever your level is. This group will get you at least to level 12.

5. Go back to butcherblock and take the boat to Kunark. Read up on how to run through Firiona Vie, Swamp of No Hope, and then to Field of Bone to get to Kurn's Tower.

6. Get a group or solo skeletons from level 12 to 20 in Kurns. It has one of the best ZEM in the game at that level and you'll find many of the iksars seem to be less douchy and will like having a rogue as a groupmate since you're not an iksar class they can choose.

These are just suggestions to get you to 20 where the game starts to open up a little bit. It seems like many rich folks are in such a rush to level they pay to get power leveled or exploit quests like the gnoll fangs in ways that assume noone else on the server exists. Ignore these people, they are the ones who quickly get identified as tools later on in the game as they get called out for either playing their character like shit in groups, or pulling jack moves with loot or their guilds.

[skipdog]

Just find a camp in BB and hold it. If they are stealing your mobs, petition them. Petition them once, calmy.

I don't see why this is so hard. Use the rules we already have in place.

[Lojik]

To be honest, I agree with you OP. I personally think it's pretty dumb to be in BB at all after level 10. Whenever I made a new toon I would frequent BB and hunt there until level 7 or 8 and then bounce, turn in fangs and get to whatever level 10,11, 12. However there are no rules against being dumb or people camping things that are really not ideal for them. If all the spawns in BB are taken and you can't really hunt there, I really recommend leaving that area, it's just not worth it. Lots of people stick around the EC area and you should be able to get groups, or get buffed by high levels and kill some stuff in EC/NRO.

[odiecat99]

Next time this hapoens pm me and I will deliver swift justice

[Buns]

I agree... I recently spent levels 8 - 12 there on my Enchanter. I leveled there over about a week. During that entire week, there was a dark elf who was camping outside BB every time I logged on. He was anonymous, but conned red to me the entire time (even when I was 12). He always had it camped. Inside it was impossible to find kills because people in their late teens were camping all the greens. The only place I had luck was the four mobs that spawn in Everfrost.

It's really frustrating because if you roll a character in Qeynos, it's really the only place to exp from 8 to low teens, but finding kills is impossible because there are so many uber twinked level 20s farming gnoll fangs despite it not being that great of exp for them. Since they're twinked, they should solo somewhere else since untwinked characters don't have that option.

I definitely don't remember it being like this in classic. In fact, BB was always dead on Tunare.

[Eunomia]

I don't know if petition here works like it did 15 years ago, but back then when you double petition, you just delete the first one. Don't think of petition as /tell gm.

This is accurate.

You can be sure I didn't see your first petition. I am sorry this happened to you. Please petition in game again if you experience similar problems. If by chance we are not able to contact you while you are on line, you may petition in the Petition / Exploit section of the forum and provide as much detail as possible, including your account and character name.

We would rather handle these types of issues in private, and ask that you take these suggestions prior to ranting on the forum.

/Report is not a function I see on Project 1999.

I hope you are able to put this experience behind you, as there is a lot of fun to be had on Project 1999!

[Velerin]

the problem is the exp is just too high on those fangs. Those level 20s are doing it because its actually still real damn good exp. Hell its still noticeable exp in your 40s here.

[Lyrith]

::These are not the Gnoll Fangs you are looking for::

[baalzy]

Don't know about that, 6 legio pads I turned in yesterday were only 1 blue bubble at 18. When I leveled in CB, I didn't notice any high levels farming pads and belts. I did notice a certain ogre warrior who would loot as many belts and pads as he could, then he /q'ed out when people asked him not to hog stuff. He later sold them in gfay.

Pads/belts drop off rather sharply at level 8/9 xp wise.

[Velerin]

I don't think they really ever bottom out though. I remember a while back I was about 98/99% into 49. I was running thru GF and thought I'd test out the cb belt exp. Bought about 10 from a newbie, ran over and turned them in...ding 50.

[xexbis0]

Wow that dude is an ass. I would use petition on the forums and provide the picture as opposed to in-game petitions. They're going to want that picture anyways for proof.

Do us all a favor and get that dude banned for a week+.

[fadetree]

Fangs are good up until 14ish, then ok to 18 or so. Kinda ghetto after that but if you are really obsessive you can take em to 20.

[BarackObooma]

“I know that turning in the Gnoll Fangs grants a massive XP boost from levels 1-24”

This is correct. Experience is even good beyond that actually. Especially for classes that have a hard time soloing.

I would like to provide an alternative point of view on this. Please understand that people who have leveled other characters are no longer in the P99 honeymoon phase. Leveling becomes a grind and you want to get it over with as quickly as possible.

I’m an altoholic and have a character of almost every class (and multiples of some classes). This means I am usually broke and can’t afford (or won’t pay 2-3k an hour) to be power leveled. I’ve learned what zones/quests/etc. give the best experience. This is why you’ll see my toons in Blackburrow from level 3-20s.

I have calculated that each fang turn in is around 19,000-20,000 experience.

See the leveling chart at:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62213

For a 22 Ranger it took exactly 100 fangs to go from 22 to 23 (1,387,000 x 1.4 = 1,941,800 experience needed to level – divided by 100 equates to the 19-20k per fang estimate).

When not many people are in the zone, it takes maybe 2-3 hours to do that. The higher your level the faster you kill so you really don’t slow down leveling unless there is a lot of competition.

For that same level 22 Ranger soloing level 20 mobs in an outdoor zone (75 ZEM), you’d get 30,000 experience per mob solo. You would need to solo (1,941,800 / 30k) approximately 65 mobs to level. This means you would need to kill each one every 2 minutes with no downtime to med/heal to get equitable experience. This is not likely.

So if I can level faster, with no down time and pretty much no chance of dying, why wouldn't I take that option?

With that being said, it’s not okay for someone to tell another person where they can and can’t level. You can move to a different zone just as easily as they can. You are just as self-serving in your wants as a higher level is.

I do my best to give back. I’ve saved dozens of people from dying, have split camps for people, have pulled mobs for lower levels that they can pick off one at a time, have given backpacks full of earrings and neck pieces to newbies, have led lost people out of the dungeon, etc. I am also camping the commanders for their shoulderpads for an enchanter guildie.

What have you done for anyone else besides complain about other people? Who’s really the inconsiderate/selfish one?

The rogue kill stealing you was wrong but you provoked the situation by doing /rude and probably telling him where he should or shouldn't level.

I really do hope you enjoy your time on P99. Blackburrow is an anomoly so don't think every zone is like that.

If you want the best rewards you're going to have to compete. Learn this now because if you want to raid later you won't be handed anything on a silver platter even with the new raid changes.

[Iumuno]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62213[/url]

For a 22 Ranger it took exactly 100 fangs to go from 22 to 23 (1,387,000 x 1.4 = 1,941,800 experience needed to level – divided by 100 equates to the 19-20k per fang estimate).

When not many people are in the zone, it takes maybe 2-3 hours to do that. The higher your level the faster you kill so you really don’t slow down leveling unless there is a lot of competition.

For that same level 22 Ranger soloing level 20 mobs in an outdoor zone (75 ZEM), you’d get 30,000 experience per mob solo. You would need to solo (1,941,800 / 30k) approximately 65 mobs to level. This means you would need to kill each one every 2 minutes with no downtime to med/heal to get equitable experience. This is not likely.



I think you just made a great case for nerfing BB fangs :)

[rollin5k]

definately one of the easiest ways to get to 20.
gets the alt fiends frothing some times no big deal man. there are so many other cool places to level.

[kudlezz]

This is so bizarre - a good group in any number of dungeons around the game can get you that much experience / more. You also don't have to rob newbies of their ability to level in Blackburrow.

I'd be fine if they just disabled the quest in the mid teens or so. Get people the hell out of the dungeon if most of it is green to them.

[Clark]

BB is kind of a free for all. But in a weird way, for me, it's always kind of been a polite FFA. I'd get random buffs, heals, etc one second from a stranger, then be competing with them for pops the next, and after we'd be bullshitting together.

Never had any problems.

[Joyelle]

Bahkrel is a huge turd and he harasses people in tells quite frequently. Not surprised to see his name come up in a post like this.

[BarackObooma]

This is so bizarre - a good group in any number of dungeons around the game can get you that much experience / more. You also don't have to rob newbies of their ability to level in Blackburrow.

I'd be fine if they just disabled the quest in the mid teens or so. Get people the hell out of the dungeon if most of it is green to them.

I disagree with your first assertation. A hybrid getting a level every 2-3 hours isn't likely even if you could find a good group immediately. I've done the grouping thing and that's why I'm back to soloing.

Everyone's playing situation is different. Because this is an alt, I have limited time to play him. Because of my time zone (I may play between midnight and 5am server time), grouping isn't always an option. The need to be able to log at a moments notice isn't ideal for grouping either. Also, finding any group let alone a good group that doesn't mind grouping with hybrids isn't always quick. So if I can pop on for an hour and get a stack of fangs I'm happy.

What some people seem to forget is mobs are up to level 25 in Blackburrow. Lord Elgnub is 25 and very nasty for his level. If you accidentally bump into him, you won't make it to the zoneline. Also, if you try to clear the commander cubby with a refugee splitpaw and a gnoll high shaman, you better be in a good group (99% of the people I are solo or duo or being PL'd) or be 22 so you don't get nailed by two casters (two of which blind you) and two elites.

I focus on the commander rooms (there are three) because they are left alone a lot and I can get rusty spiked shoulderpads. If there's not many people in the zone, sure I'll start slaughtering other areas but I am respectful of other people and groups. I don't run up and grab all the mobs in front of someone.

Regarding your 2nd point. If they nerfed the gnoll fang experience, blackburrow would be a ghost town. The lowbies would all be moving to Crushbone or East Commons to beg for buffs/gear. They want the exact same thing as the higher levels, quick easy, experience. They are not victims, there are plenty of places to level. They can find mobs 1-50 in Everfrost/Qeynos hills which are on either side of Blackburrow.

[Swish]

Just find a camp in BB and hold it. If they are stealing your mobs, petition them. Petition them once, calmy.

I don't see why this is so hard. Use the rules we already have in place.

Rule lawyering to this extreme is often lost on new players... and rightly so, it's shitty to have to go down that route.

[radditsu]

When I started my barbarian ass was in blackburrow solo for days. Now people have found that teeth are a slightly more efficient means to level and its fart central. Play the game nerds. Stop min maxing on a spreadsheet

[Fame]

Black burrow is a harsh cavern of doom in continual conflict between the gnolls, humans and barbarians, etiquette.. wtf are you babbling on about?

[baalzy]

Yes, the new people with no friends or resources can go xp somewhere else. I mean Qeynos and Halas both have super handy port locations nearby and handy (if time consuming) boats that can be used to safely (relatively) get to better hunting grounds.

[Tradesonred]

Posterchild post for rolling a character on red

[Lightloch]

I always preferred Deathfist belts to gnoll fangs anyway. Not a huge market for belts on this server it seems.

[BarackObooma]

Yes, the new people with no friends or resources can go xp somewhere else. I mean Qeynos and Halas both have super handy port locations nearby and handy (if time consuming) boats that can be used to safely (relatively) get to better hunting grounds.

As mentioned both zones next to Blackburrow have mobs from level 1 to 50. You don't have to port anywhere else. I'm just saying there are options. You can stay in Blackburrow but know you're going to be competing for spawns with other people or go next door and have all the mobs you want without competition.

If someone really wanted a port, you can safely run a level 1 from Qeynos to NK following the mountain and then water and you have a Wiz spire and Druid rings there.

[radditsu]

Thanks Obooma!

[BarackObooma]

Now this is the crap noone wants!

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140813

WTS Gnoll fang PL

"Selling Black burrow PL for 10 - 20 4k or 4 hours

1k per hour all the fangs u can get deaths and afk's stop timer. PM me or MSG Russano in game"

[Ahldagor]

Now this is the crap noone wants!

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140813

WTS Gnoll fang PL

"Selling Black burrow PL for 10 - 20 4k or 4 hours

1k per hour all the fangs u can get deaths and afk's stop timer. PM me or MSG Russano in game"

free market yo

[Quineloe]

Pads/belts drop off rather sharply at level 8/9 xp wise.

that's just belts, Pads are still sweet at 14/15. That's why a pad turn in is 10pp and a belt turn in is 3pp. I just missed a backpack and noticed at 18, that's when they're not really good exp anymore.

[Wudan]

reroll Iksar and you will not have to deal with lame softskin problems. Enjoy FoB/Kurns and be the boss!

[Fregar]

Maybe I didn't find the good spots in field of bones, but my sk has been having a hard time finding a decent supply of blue mobs from... lvl 6? to lvl 10.
Currently in the area around kaesora.

Mobs of various level are mixed together, all kos, and you're forced to wander between light blue, yellow and red roamers to tag the one blue mob and pull it to a safe spot.

I guess now at lvl 10 it may be time to move to kurn, but 6-10 has been a pain in the ass.

[RiffDaemon]

Maybe I didn't find the good spots in field of bones, but my sk has been having a hard time finding a decent supply of blue mobs from... lvl 6? to lvl 10.
Currently in the area around kaesora.

Mobs of various level are mixed together, all kos, and you're forced to wander between light blue, yellow and red roamers to tag the one blue mob and pull it to a safe spot.

I guess now at lvl 10 it may be time to move to kurn, but 6-10 has been a pain in the ass.

Lake of Ill Omen was my favorite for leveling an Ikky. The mob distribution is more layered in terms of levels as you move on from the Cab entrance to the lake area.

[Lamil]

FOB I found as you level to slowly move towards kurns in the pit. Not sure if you are killing Furbies or not but I think the skellies and wolf hunters slowly scale up as you move that direction.

[Aborath]

snip

This quest needs to be fixed or trivial loot code implemented. Using fangs to skip eight-ten levels is downright silly and against the spirit of the game (imo).

[Kayso]

the problem is the exp is just too high on those fangs. Those level 20s are doing it because its actually still real damn good exp. Hell its still noticeable exp in your 40s here.

Petition harassment-sure. Complaining about people level 20+ in BB-whiner.

The actually shitty thing about BB is all the people you see doing it wrong. Generally speaking, you should never be the right level for elites and commanders solo. You should either be ~ level 12 sitting on 350-500 fangs, or you should be the fuck out of BB.

[Bazia]

Maybe I didn't find the good spots in field of bones, but my sk has been having a hard time finding a decent supply of blue mobs from... lvl 6? to lvl 10.
Currently in the area around kaesora.

Mobs of various level are mixed together, all kos, and you're forced to wander between light blue, yellow and red roamers to tag the one blue mob and pull it to a safe spot.

I guess now at lvl 10 it may be time to move to kurn, but 6-10 has been a pain in the ass.

There is definitely a gap between 6-9 that sucks for everyone except Nec in FOB. Most things are either light blue / low dark blue or yellow/red.

Grats on powering through pal

[Unferth]

Wow this thread blew up, wasn't really expecting that lol.

To try to respond to everybody in a general manner - FYI, I wasn't sending people tells bitching at them to leave the camp. I was literally sending tells along the lines of "hey mate! any chance you might be able to move into BB and hunt there? I'm just level 6 so these entryway gnolls are the best xp". Hardly sounding rude or pushy at all.

I understand Gnoll Fangs are great xp, but I just feel it's a bit ridiculous for people to not be courteous/cognizant of the leveling pecking order in a noobie grinding zone. I literally never had this problem on any server I played on back in the day. I remember back in Classic, if I ran up to a camp that was my level and a high-level toon was camping it for drops they simply concede the camp to me because they knew I could actually get XP from it, you know, like it was designed.

All that being said, I did take some of the suggestions here and I rolled an Iksar Necromancer. It's much better not having to depend on the courtesy of others to level on this server (for me). I also have experimented with making a character on Red, and while I thought it would be therapeutic to attack the people I think are rude, I've found that Red has a pretty big twink culture that I don't think I can compete with.

Also, I learned something today about how to properly petition GMs, so thanks for that.

oh, and PPS - I've bumped into Bahkrel around Freeport a few times since then on some of my alts. I always make a point to stop and /rude him a few times so he knows how I feel before going on my merry way :D