Bard buff stacking (Big Haynar thread)

[Nirgon]

Its a tossup to which is less fun. Bolts or Bards.

H

I am sure this is no easy feat and requires all kinds of pain in the ass testing as you go.

How things should function:
(in either order)
->Bard procs tash from orb of tishan.
->Enchanter casts any tash spell

Both are up on target.

From here:
-> Another bard procs tash orb on same mob... overwrites existing BARD tash
-> Another enchanter casts equal/higher tash -> overwrites ENCHANTER tash


The same applies to beneficial spells:
->Bard item clicks shield of flame on self or other target
->mage is able to shield of lava bard or other target
(both are on target)
->another bard tries, but it overwrites the bard casted version

I think I outlined the expected behavior pretty well and it would be a very impressive fix to put in place.

The low down and dirty is that there should be stacking of "bard" and "other" when considering what to overwrite on a target.

Our bards on live were loved and feared on raids/pvp.... and tash orbs were extremely valuable items.

[Nirgon]

Happy to do Q&A to get granular on mechanics/scenarios too!

[Haynar]

Should a bard proc, during a song, stop the song?

Looking at separating the interrupts for songs and spells.

H

[Nirgon]

No, High Priest.

For instance dance of the blade proc didn't interrupt singing.

Stacking is the big one here. It would be game changing and amazing in a very classic way to see this happen.

Who knows I might even get crazy and log in and play with it!

Yer a champ Big H.

[Haynar]

I know ins and outs of stacking code. Thats easy.

I tweaked on missed notes rates and improved how cha and dex help last night.

Was looking at why all the spell bars disappearing on bards. That was ticking me off. Very annoying.

I will try to do spell stacking soon.

[Nirgon]

Ya dex I knew was a big factor for songs, I'd hafta cheat (Thott pal) for CHA stuff for bards.


Another "fun fact" is CHA was the determining factor for NPC rampage for quite some time on live (I personally wouldn't bother with any of dat). Some people thought it was only far enchanter mez :).

[Haynar]

Oh. And I work for free.

Promises or trying to force a payment will get your requests for changes ignored.

So lets take that off the table now.

H

[Nirgon]

Done

[Haynar]

I think i know how to pull this off.

Where is my proof that its supposed to work like this?

H

[zanderklocke]

I know ins and outs of stacking code. Thats easy.

I tweaked on missed notes rates and improved how cha and dex help last night.

Was looking at why all the spell bars disappearing on bards. That was ticking me off. Very annoying.

I will try to do spell stacking soon.

You rule, Haynar.

[Nirgon]

Getting you proof big H. Missed your last post.

Was busy swinging light sabers in Diablo if you feels

[Nirgon]

Where is my proof that its supposed to work like this?


Here you go:

Source (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=5034#m10316772082880):

"In the off hand, where ratio is better than speed, this is a fine weapon. Keep your speedy weapons in the mainhand for the damage bonus and a good ratio'd weapon in the other. As for the proc, I can't speak for paladins, but I've had Guard stack with any other buffs I'm ever given. Then again, a bard proc'ing a JStick stacks with enchanter Tash, sp bard proc stacking has always been a bit weird (but benefically so). Anyway, it's worth using just until you get the proc and switching out if you wish. An extra 20AC never hurts :)"


And I sware on Grandmother Dr. Nirgon's grave it worked this way from day 1 to end of Velious.

You are redefining classic EQ bro status every patch. Much appreciation (if you're allowed to work for it)!!!!

To be clear there can be 2 versions of the same buff/debuff on a target regardless of proc or item click. A bard version and a non-bard version. With one overwriting the other based on it being a higher strength/level (normal stacking rules). Max of 2 of the same line (one bard/one non-bard). Dead horse looking pretty beaten, good luck code pal.

[Haynar]

The bard casting same spell lines, stacking with non-bard spells, makes some of the stacking that is expected to work better.

Will look at this further.

H

[Nirgon]

Curious what other kind of stacking you are talking about, meant to ask.

Maybe I can dig around and test.

[Beef]

Bard dots were stackable on live so were our DS songs, for instance psalm of cooling ds stacked with all other spell cast DS, and bards could use stack dot songs with other bards on targets.

[Nirgon]

I dunno about 2 bards stacking their dot chant line but I do know what I've outlined above with bard tash having its own set vs enchanter tash was absolutely the case.

[lurk]

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10980

"Slow is the key to klandicar, give a bard a tash stick - due to the way that bard songs stack enchanter cast tash and tash from a bard wielding a tash stick both stack."

This patch possibly changed it...

May 30, 2001

** Spell and Song Changes and Bug Fixes **

- We've been fixing holes in the spell stacking code. For the most part
the changes fix bugs that allowed tricks to get spells to stack that
were never intended to stack.

This is definitely a classic mechanic and should be added. That extra tash makes a huge difference trying to slow velious mobs. And the lava diamond stacking adds a ton of dps when slow isn't viable.

[Lasher]

wasnt there a strat where a bard wuld use the lava diamond trhing from VP to cast on Tank so it could stack even more DS?

[Nirgon]

Very good lank thanks for added research pal

[Orruar]

Any update on this? Hard to test beta properly without this mechanic in place. The resists issue is exacerbated by the missing extra bard tash.

[Technique]

From a Dev Corner thread on bard stacking issues dated 9/21/2001 (http://wayback.archive.org/web/20021225161204/http:/boards.station.sony.com/ubb/everquest/Forum1/HTML/000323.html):
Many bards have noticed that something went wrong with the emergency patch last night. Here's what happened.

We had to emergency patch to remove an evil duping bug. I'm not going to detail that out, as those details aren't pertinent to the tale at hand.

We were also patching to remove some bard stacking problems. There was a way that a bard could, basically, cheat the system and double up on buffs.

To fix this problem we changed the way that spells cast from items work for bards. Bards using items that cast spells (not songs) will have those spells act just like regular spells, where they were acting like songs before. Bard songs stack with just about anything, and spells have their own sets of stacking rules. Bards casting spells from items were able to ignore the stacking restrictions of those spells.

We changed that. Bards using spells from items will find that they stack just like the spells normally do, not like bard songs.

Let me clarify a few things about this change.

Bards have been able to stack some spells on top of themselves and other spells that were never intended to be stacked. That was broken and never intended to work as it has.

Bard songs are intended to stack with everything. They will continue to do so.

Bard songs that are generated by items will continue to stack just like bard songs sung by bards, they will stack with everything. Most bard unique items will also continue to stack with everything. For example, the Singing Short Sword will stack as it always has.

The only spells that bards will no longer be able to stack will be spells from items, spells that were designed with stacking rules in mind and were never intended to be stacked with everything in the manner of a bard song.

Our next patch will be Tuesday. We'll have the Epic (and the Shaman Epic…) along with the rest of this fixed then.
Apparently the changes were actually reverted with that patch:
September 25, 2001
We have removed the changes to bard song stacking that were made with the recent emergency patch. We will be reviewing those changes for possible update in a future patch.

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20010925.html