myconid spore king

[Detoxx]

Moved to Private, can delete.

[khanable]

So that's how people started duoing it..

Neat.

How does the shaman get in there?

[arsenalpow]

There's a ton of different pulls where pathing can be advantageous (every fucking chardok pull? Jumpy and friends in Trak lair?) so it doesn't sound like an exploit to me. If you were running back and forth non stop to make those mobs never touch you that would be one thing, but tagging, waiting a tick, flopping, then sneak tagging doesn't sounds any more exploity than every other sneak pull.

[Potus]

That just sounds smart. Not an exploit.

[quido]

seems innocent enough to me

[SamwiseRed]

so sneak pulling is an exploit now?

[4WOFURY]

#FreeDetoxx

Unless there is more to the story.

That is indeed the way to pull king now. Boo on you for posting the strat... Lol

[Nirgon]

Do this in front of Sirken and see how smart you feel afterwards.

[Supaskillz]

Anyone care to share op?

I don't think it requires any pathing exploits to solo pull king. I'm a rogue and it's possible for me to do it. Is the about lev over the lake and how sometimes they try to path through water and sometimes go around so you can use positioning to bounce them around a bit? The real innovation is fighting underwater so you don't have to worry about other npcs.

[Haynar]

Looks like the issue is either the aggro distance or assist distance of the other shrooms.

Sneak pull mechanics are classic.

Exploiting pathing, will get u banned.

Making mobs move back and forth pathing, is exploiting.

Safe spots around king, not so classic.

H

[Pint]

This got resolved, sirken just wasn't quite sure what he saw at first glance I guess. Deemed not an exploit. It has nothin to do with exploiting seb pathing, the king comes solo bc of sneak and he takes a straight path into the water.

[Haynar]

The shrooms should aggro even if ur under water. Might be wrong type of los checks going on. I will investigate.

H

[Haynar]

Actually lev over water might be confusing pathing system. I can fix that too.

H

[Ele]

high priest doing god's work

[Detoxx]

Looks like the issue is either the aggro distance or assist distance of the other shrooms.

Sneak pull mechanics are classic.

Exploiting pathing, will get u banned.

Making mobs move back and forth pathing, is exploiting.

Safe spots around king, not so classic.

H

No pathing exploit was going on, the shrooms never aggroed us, we pulled the ph/king into water when they all had their backs turned and sneak was on. I always remember water being an invisible barrier of LoS for any mob, but I could be mistaken. Will keep checking back for update.

[Haynar]

Best I can do is look at how aggro is in water in seb on live. Might take my rogue down there and check the mechanics are as similar as they can be.

Sneak pulling as always, is a cool rogue utility. I worked on it quite a bit to try and make it work right.

H

[Pint]

Actually lev over water might be confusing pathing system. I can fix that too.

H

We could show you sometime if you want, the king hops off the little structure and walks around the right side till he's at water then he dives in. There isn't any wonky pathing like there is down at juggs or at that little safe spot near king.

[Daldaen]

Aren't the 2 Myconids too close for sneak pull to work though?

Thought sneak was supposed to act like a harmony if mobs had their back to you. In that it still had a range of effectiveness. IE mobs really close to the tagged mob will aggro regardless of orientation due to their close proximity?

[Pint]

Aren't the 2 Myconids too close for sneak pull to work though?

Thought sneak was supposed to act like a harmony if mobs had their back to you. In that it still had a range of effectiveness. IE mobs really close to the tagged mob will aggro regardless of orientation due to their close proximity?

Nah, if they arnt facing you they won't come, have you never seen someone sneak tag something out of a train?

[Daldaen]

Thus the word 'supposed'.

I know how it functions on this server. I just don't recall it being this great on live. But all I have are recollections at the moment. If I dig up some evidence backing those up I'll post it.

EDIT: I guess my first sentence did make it seem like I was talking about here. Fair enough. But yea, I know how sneak works on this server.

[Supaskillz]

Looks like the issue is either the aggro distance or assist distance of the other shrooms.

Sneak pull mechanics are classic.

Exploiting pathing, will get u banned.

Making mobs move back and forth pathing, is exploiting.

Safe spots around king, not so classic.

H
Does this mean water surface should not block Los?
That has pvp implications since people use water to Los spells.

Edit: apparently I didn't refresh page and missed a lot of discussion on this. Question is still relevant though if you think this should not be the case. Caster pvp around water is pretty dumb.

[Supaskillz]

Aren't the 2 Myconids too close for sneak pull to work though?

Thought sneak was supposed to act like a harmony if mobs had their back to you. In that it still had a range of effectiveness. IE mobs really close to the tagged mob will aggro regardless of orientation due to their close proximity?

I don't think range matters if you are behind. According this you can sneak pull from front if far away /shrug

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?p=35048#post35048

[Daldaen]

I didn't mean your range to target. I meant targets range to other NPCs on that faction.

I *thought* sneak worked on live like a lull. Mobs who weren't facing you were effectively harmonied and their aggro radius was reduced. However if there's a total cluster of mobs, sneak pulling wouldn't work because they are too close together.

Which is why I feel the version we have on P99 is better than it was on live. Because the mobs could be on top of each other and you could still sneak split. Vorash/Deep for example. Don't recall that being sneak split table on live. Remember FD splitting it. But again, it's something I'd need to investigate.

[Supaskillz]

Actually lev over water might be confusing pathing system. I can fix that too.

H

I am curious how the fix would work. I always felt like mob should take shortest path to you even it it involved going through water. If mob is set on running around ever it seems like this can always be abused by finding the spot that he start to go that way. Right now if you are near water edge mobs will path toward water than you can start backing up and they will go through water.

[Supaskillz]

Dald. I could believe this since the safe house post has makes this confusing distinction between social and chain aggro that maybe is confused by proximity. I feel like it's hard to get good evidence on hide & sneak though, most people didn't understand all the nuances.

[Theturtlehermit]

i did tons of sneakpulling and all sneak did was reduce aggro radius from back facing mobs. If the mobs were too close together, like the spell harmony, sneak pulling wouldnt work.
Source: Mained rogue and was good at sneak pulling for 7 years on live.

Based on some reading here: http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6563

sneak pulling only work to eliminate *aggro* radius like harmony but did NOTHING for *assist* radius, which some mobs have. This is why sneak pulling was inconsistant, especially in higher level zones.

[Socratic]

Still waiting on a final decision from staff.

[Splorf22]

The big problems here are that a) the king doesn't run and b) the adepts should be ching him in the water. It will still be a trio but it won't be a 'kill and afk for 20 minutes in the water' like it is now.

[Haynar]

I am going to play with pathing on live later tonight. If the bastard isn't camped. Again.

Adepts should be Ch'ing him. Will check that too. Might not be triggering because he is under water. Can investigate.

H

[4WOFURY]

I don't think range matters if you are behind. According this you can sneak pull from front if far away /shrug

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?p=35048#post35048

This post talks of even invising past other mobs though, and not getting social agro even as the agro'd mob runs past it.

According to that post, and it's time, sneak pulling is working as intended here.

LDoN was a later expansion, and thus not in the appropriate time period. Seething may have been changed by then.

If you come up behind two mobs and fire a bow, or throw at one - only the target will come as long as you keep sneak engaged. It negates him from chain aggroing the second mob. As if the first mob normally says "Come on, there's a guy over here" and the second says "I don't see anything", shrugs and stays where he is.

As for Hide, it doesn't really affect the chain aggro betwen mobs - Sneak takes care of this. The usefullness of Hide only comes into play if you have to pass other mobs on your way back to the group with your pull.

If you are hidden, you can pass other mobs safely without aggroing even though your pull is aggro and following you.

Invis pulling was classic.

[Haynar]

Played with this on eqlive.

King would always path down stairs. Never would jump down off back of platform.

Never got an add in water.

Only healing from outside was a pather who would stop at edge of water closest to king spawn.

And the king ran when low on hps. That was something I didnt prepare for.

And he dropped the tunic. Lol.

H

[Freakish]

Where were you fighting him to get healed? Currently if you fight close to either side of the water he will be healed but if you keep him in the middle he would be out of range of the healers.

[Tecmos Deception]

Never got an add in water.

You weren't level 60 though, right?

[Nirgon]

If the bastard isn't camped. Again.

H



Dis all you gotta tell em

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5zaceJRLI1qcf707o1_500.gif

[Nerosys]

Played with this on eqlive.

King would always path down stairs. Never would jump down off back of platform.

Never got an add in water.

Only healing from outside was a pather who would stop at edge of water closest to king spawn.

And the king ran when low on hps. That was something I didnt prepare for.

And he dropped the tunic. Lol.

H


so i would like to confirm this is working as intended.. we got told to move today i was just sneak pulling i don't understand why this is an issue

[Tecmos Deception]

Haynar's posts here + a GM giving a cease and desist ingame isn't enough for you to conclude that it is not, in fact, working as intended?

[Haynar]

It can be improved. But I think it will be tougher to pull it off. But not impossible.

H

[Lazie]

Haynar's posts here + a GM giving a cease and desist ingame isn't enough for you to conclude that it is not, in fact, working as intended?

What Haynar said is basically what is happening here... I would like Haynar to see if on the other server he can range the outside heals and avoid them because you can here.

[Tecmos Deception]

Maybe I'm not understanding this thread?

1. King paths off platform differently here than live.
2. Mushroom healers in a certain location were healing on live, but they aren't at all on here (or this is what it sounded like to me, based on this thread alone).
3. Haynar didn't get any adds on live, but he also wasn't playing a level 60.
4. King ran on live, but he doesn't when fought in the lake on here.

Maybe these things are issues and maybe they aren't... but this thread hardly seemed to settle this.

[Haynar]

No run code needs to treat water as being no mobs close. And run. Unless mobs are in water too.

You should be able to get in middle of water, to avoid healing.

Pathing is annoying, but gave me good idea how to do initial aggro pathing. Thanks.

I will fix it. Enjoy it while it lasts, imho.

H

[HeallunRumblebelly]

http://i62.tinypic.com/25724vl.png

[Splorf22]

nice! I can continue my hydrophobic ways

[Lazie]

Maybe I'm not understanding this thread?

1. King paths off platform differently here than live.
2. Mushroom healers in a certain location were healing on live, but they aren't at all on here (or this is what it sounded like to me, based on this thread alone).
3. Haynar didn't get any adds on live, but he also wasn't playing a level 60.
4. King ran on live, but he doesn't when fought in the lake on here.

Maybe these things are issues and maybe they aren't... but this thread hardly seemed to settle this.

1. The point was he was still able to single pull it to that spot.
2. He just posted you can avoid the heals on live.
3. The only changes needed is the correct pathing the king/ph should take to get there (making getting him single just a little harder but not much different) and fixing the run mechanic. The run mechanic as it is right now is that if mobs on the same faction are within a certain distance of the mob you are fighting it won't run. So that does need to be fixed.
4. Level range of the person doing it won't change much. The mechanic stopping adds both in his test and here is the lack of line of sight that the water causes. Which was classic and is the same on live now.

[Detoxx]

The king did get healed several times on a few of our kills, but it had to do with how high he was in the water. If he was as low as possible, never got healed no matter where he was, if he was higher up, he got CHed a couple times.

On live if you are 20 levels higher than a mob, it will run. Not a good test to say that he should run here I don't think, but I could be wrong.

[Freakish]

I don't mind it being harder here. Let him run.
60 NEC LFG King. Will snare.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I don't mind it being harder here. Let him run.
60 NEC LFG King. Will snare.

halfling warrior / halfling cleric sneak tag. Warrior with a snare whip. Get that necro shit out of here :P

also, Eabon come home.

[quido]

Have you guys been pulling him straight into the water from the king room, or pathing him around and into the water?

[Socratic]

I dunno where all the questions about pathing have come from. I've pulled the spawn dozens of times and he always runs away from the water, off his little tower, and then all the way back around the corner to the far right before coming down the hall to the water. Haven't seen him come off the front of his tower once.

[Lazie]

I dunno where all the questions about pathing have come from. I've pulled the spawn dozens of times and he always runs away from the water, off his little tower, and then all the way back around the corner to the far right before coming down the hall to the water. Haven't seen him come off the front of his tower once.

He can come off the front too directly to the water. Depends how close to him you are. Which is the problem with pathing I think they are talking about.

[Pint]

He can come off the front too directly to the water. Depends how close to him you are. Which is the problem with pathing I think they are talking about.

I've never seen this happen, I'd take a guess and say I've killed 70 phs/kings with this pull, maybe a little more.

Can't you just flag king to always run unless snared?

[Lazie]

I've never seen this happen, I'd take a guess and say I've killed 70 phs/kings with this pull, maybe a little more

It did happen. I think they fixed it with the last Seb pathing fix. Because I havent seen it lately either.

[Ragnaros]

Bump.. Is this an exploit or not?

On live if you put the king in the water, nothing aggros.
Here, if you pull him in the water, the adepts still heal him.
Here, if you pull him in the water, he still runs and makes it really tough to small man it.
So is it actually an exploit?
Regardless if you think the pathing is wrong on here, 95% of the time on both servers he is still pulled to the zone out room using that same pathing exploit..even if they aren't killing him in the water.

[Dolalin]

Looks like the issue is either the aggro distance or assist distance of the other shrooms.

Sneak pull mechanics are classic.

Exploiting pathing, will get u banned.

Making mobs move back and forth pathing, is exploiting.

Safe spots around king, not so classic.

H

Sneak pull mechanics are not classic Haynar. Please see:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259137