This is retarded

[Ikonoclastia]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155979

This was impossible on live. Its pretty much just exploiting a bug to kill ridiculous amount of mobs. If its not patched out then it probably should be considered an exploit imo and not allowed on the server.

Given Sony didn't like you killing 40 experience giving mobs, its highly unlikely they would have been okay with 180+.

- Made several gameplay changes to The Grey. A single group having the
ability to simultaneously engage and prevail against 35+ experience-
giving creatures is not in line with the desire for risk vs. reward and
the promotion of balanced groups.
http://www.waringmcmarrin.com/?page_id=56

Anyone that disagree's with me, let me just say first, go fuck yourself.

[Bboboo]

k

[Ikonoclastia]

k
It doesn't bug you that people are using a bug to skip 400,000,000 of the 600,000,000 xp points required to get to 60?

[sulpher01]

Anyone remember what the actual changes were in the grey? I don't remember them ever 'fixing' AE groups in fungus grove...

[Bboboo]

Why would that bug me?

[Cecily]

I remember a guide for PBAEing the grey on a druid. Always wanted to try it out here.

[Ikonoclastia]

Anyone remember what the actual changes were in the grey? I don't remember them ever 'fixing' AE groups in fungus grove...
They MR buffed all the mobs and increased their hitpoints so they couldn't be aoe'd down in groups of 30-40 like what was happening initially.

[Arteker]

They MR buffed all the mobs and increased their hitpoints so they couldn't be aoe'd down in groups of 30-40 like what was happening initially.

aoe groups where nerfed 3 months into luclin, and mainly in luclin areas. shit is classic sadly.

[Ikonoclastia]

aoe groups where nerfed 3 months into luclin, and mainly in luclin areas. shit is classic sadly.
Nah its not classic. If you played on live from original EQ you will have never heard of people aoe'ing more than 10 to 20 mobs in Chardok because there is no way any puller could survive dragging them back to the group.

The only way this is possible is because you have unclassic /pet attack commands and unclassic 'never lose aggro'.

I know this because we used to pull the overking to zoneline using Kunark mechanics prior to luclin. You would pacify all the mobs in the kings room, root one of them and the king would chase you (secondary aggro), by the time root wore off you were too far away from the rooted mob for it to chase you so it didn't train you to the exit. The kings secondary aggro wouldn't aggro mobs he ran past so you could kill him solo at the exit.

If mechanics like we have on P1999 had existed, once root wore off that rooted mob would have trained the entire zone onto us. It never did.

[bigshowtime]

U just didn't hear of it cause u were a non factor on cloth who wasn't in the loop, sorry dog

[Ikonoclastia]

U just didn't hear of it cause u were a non factor on cloth who wasn't in the loop, sorry dog
I didn't hear of it because it was mechanically impossible to do.

Why?

You could not issue a pet command to a pet deep down in a dungeon in Kunark unless you were next to it ->http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155761

Even if it had been possible, which it wasn't, the mob your pet attacked would have been out of range of you and not moved -> http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155722

Thereby making it impossible for it ever to have happened, dog.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Monks can still do a solid 120 with just javving and quick running. Shit you could do this pull with an enchanter. just dazzle the starter mob, then GoK the royals mob, then mesmerize the lev tunnel mob. take a rez box after you get a heal and call the incs, obv. Might even be able to get some mana and help with stuns :P

[Red_Psyphon]

o shit

[Champion_Standing]

So wait a second... SoW and Wolf form should stack?

[Tasslehofp99]

Yeah, I don't think AE groups happened on live in this era either.

No proof though, so its probably not going anywhere.

[Ikonoclastia]

Monks can still do a solid 120 with just javving and quick running. Shit you could do this pull with an enchanter. just dazzle the starter mob, then GoK the royals mob, then mesmerize the lev tunnel mob. take a rez box after you get a heal and call the incs, obv. Might even be able to get some mana and help with stuns :P
I'd love to see a monk do this.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Yeah, I don't think AE groups happened on live in this era either.

No proof though, so its probably not going anywhere.

Regardless, get your fill while you can ^

[Ikonoclastia]

Monks can still do a solid 120 with just javving and quick running. Shit you could do this pull with an enchanter. just dazzle the starter mob, then GoK the royals mob, then mesmerize the lev tunnel mob. take a rez box after you get a heal and call the incs, obv. Might even be able to get some mana and help with stuns :P
Actually as soon as you got the res, it'd all fall apart because everything out of range would reset due to lazy aggro.

[Tasslehofp99]

I think the main difference between live and here is the resists. The earliest AE groups that I remember were in velious and they had like atleast 5-6 enchanters for stuns due to the insane amount of resists you got even at 60.

I'm pretty sure the shitty ass computers and connections most people had on live is what really made AE groups impossible, though.

[Ikonoclastia]

I think the main difference between live and here is the resists. The earliest AE groups that I remember were in velious and they had like atleast 5-6 enchanters for stuns due to the insane amount of resists you got even at 60.

I'm pretty sure the shitty ass computers and connections most people had on live is what really made AE groups impossible, though.
We were aoe'ing both Chardok and Seb on live before luclin but nothing like 180 mobs lol. More like 20 and we died a shitload doing it.

[Bboboo]

I'm pretty sure the shitty ass computers and connections most people had on live is what really made AE groups impossible, though.

Isn't this the same reason for Bard AoE Kiting?

[Tasslehofp99]

Isn't this the same reason for Bard AoE Kiting?

tbh, I don't even remember bards using PBAoE kiting to level on live.


The bards I knew did something called "Swarm kiting" which involved charming mobs in a pack of other mobs that would social onto the charmed mob and beat it down to low health in 1 second. The bard would just break charm with gazughi ring before mob died and charm a new one, repeating this until all the mobs were low enough health that he could finish them with an AE.

It was pretty baller, but I remember if you stared into your "Swarm" for too long your computer would usually lag out so bad that you'd get facefucked.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Actually as soon as you got the res, it'd all fall apart because everything out of range would reset due to lazy aggro.

...whaaat? The cleric heals the ench. Clr now has secondary aggro. Enc takes rez box and clears it. Now he's factioned and cleared so he can do whatever the fuck he wants. It's the exact same as the feigners, but without feign. Shaman are as good as anyone else really for pulling if they have a rez box. Furthermore, assiduous vision would provide a way to pet attack if the change you're suggesting with pets even went in.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

I'd love to see a monk do this.

sure, here's a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K86io8r5G0

Aalpha's pull is about the best monk pull I've seen.

[Tasslehofp99]

...whaaat? The cleric heals the ench. Clr now has secondary aggro. Enc takes rez box and clears it. Now he's factioned and cleared so he can do whatever the fuck he wants. It's the exact same as the feigners, but without feign. Shaman are as good as anyone else really for pulling if they have a rez box. Furthermore, assiduous vision would provide a way to pet attack if the change you're suggesting with pets even went in.

On live, if you went a certain distance from mobs they would stop actively pursuing you until you came back into that certain distance. Not sure p99 has that function or if it ever will; not exactly sure when it was added on live. I want to say it was added in Kunark, though.

I also don't know that Chardok is necessarily a big enough zone for that to happen though. Usually, with a snared mob/sow on, it took like 3-4 minutes of running before a mob would stop pursuing. As soon as you came back within that range though, it would start the chase all over again.

[Ikonoclastia]

...whaaat? The cleric heals the ench. Clr now has secondary aggro. Enc takes rez box and clears it. Now he's factioned and cleared so he can do whatever the fuck he wants. It's the exact same as the feigners, but without feign. Shaman are as good as anyone else really for pulling if they have a rez box. Furthermore, assiduous vision would provide a way to pet attack if the change you're suggesting with pets even went in.
Yeah except if you were on live the cleric would get aggro but the mobs being outside of lazy aggro range would add the cleric to the hate list and only pursue if the cleric got into lazy aggro range.

The same thing goes for the vid. It only works because mobs pursue no matter how far you are from them on P1999.

And there were no changes "put in" they were always in from day 1 of kunark.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

On live, if you went a certain distance from mobs they would stop actively pursuing you until you came back into that certain distance. Not sure p99 has that function or if it ever will; not exactly sure when it was added on live. I want to say it was added in Kunark, though.

I also don't know that Chardok is necessarily a big enough zone for that to happen though. Usually, with a snared mob/sow on, it took like 3-4 minutes of running before a mob would stop pursuing. As soon as you came back within that range though, it would start the chase all over again.

I recall this as well. They also were super shitty about pathing back to their spawn after they were unaggroed so shit would just be standing in random spots in outdoor zones sometimes :P

[Ikonoclastia]

On live, if you went a certain distance from mobs they would stop actively pursuing you until you came back into that certain distance. Not sure p99 has that function or if it ever will; not exactly sure when it was added on live. I want to say it was added in Kunark, though.

I also don't know that Chardok is necessarily a big enough zone for that to happen though. Usually, with a snared mob/sow on, it took like 3-4 minutes of running before a mob would stop pursuing. As soon as you came back within that range though, it would start the chase all over again.
Can't say how far it extended but you could definitely single pull Overking with pacify and root using the no chase code. We did it and there's plenty of in era posts about doing it to show that it was done often.

[sulpher01]

tbh, I don't even remember bards using PBAoE kiting to level on live.


The bards I knew did something called "Swarm kiting" which involved charming mobs in a pack of other mobs that would social onto the charmed mob and beat it down to low health in 1 second. The bard would just break charm with gazughi ring before mob died and charm a new one, repeating this until all the mobs were low enough health that he could finish them with an AE.

It was pretty baller, but I remember if you stared into your "Swarm" for too long your computer would usually lag out so bad that you'd get facefucked.

God I miss this... could pull every spider in velks and do this all day. :D

[sulpher01]

Thing is, we had to deal with the leashing problem in fungus grove and it never stopped the AE groups... just slows down the pulling.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Seems like all you'd need to do is post bug reports, a few bits of evidence and they'd get right on your change.

[radditsu]

Could do it in teh grey with trap mobs np. Also the issue was you couldnt get too far away from mobs or they would deaggro. If you were not retarded you could kite np. I got....200ish aa in the grey doing nothing back in the day.

Fungus was harder due to the exp nerf and the mobs who shroom you

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Lazy aggro would be a good game changer to VP pulling...shit, dragon pulling in general. I'd like to see the effects ~

[Bboboo]

The bards I knew did something called "Swarm kiting" which involved charming mobs in a pack of other mobs that would social onto the charmed mob and beat it down to low health in 1 second. The bard would just break charm with gazughi ring before mob died and charm a new one, repeating this until all the mobs were low enough health that he could finish them with an AE.

I actually saw a Bard doing this the other day in DL and had no idea what he was doing. Pretty cool.

[zanderklocke]

tbh, I don't even remember bards using PBAoE kiting to level on live.


The bards I knew did something called "Swarm kiting" which involved charming mobs in a pack of other mobs that would social onto the charmed mob and beat it down to low health in 1 second. The bard would just break charm with gazughi ring before mob died and charm a new one, repeating this until all the mobs were low enough health that he could finish them with an AE.

It was pretty baller, but I remember if you stared into your "Swarm" for too long your computer would usually lag out so bad that you'd get facefucked.

For some reason everyone on this server uses AoE kiting and "swarm kiting" interchangeable. As a language nut, I'm glad you posted this.

[radditsu]

If pets worked right there would be a reason to use both words. Fix pet aggro.

[Ikonoclastia]

If pets worked right there would be a reason to use both words. Fix pet aggro.
Yeah they 'fixed' pets so mobs would ignore charmed pets in PoP due to the swarm charming described above. You could pump out serious aa's as a bard swarming lightcrawlers in PoD. Pretty sure that's why it was changed.

[Thulack]

Wasn't Bard AE kiting in Maiden's Eye the whole reason that DoT dmg got reduced while moving?

[sulpher01]

Yeah they 'fixed' pets so mobs would ignore charmed pets in PoP due to the swarm charming described above. You could pump out serious aa's as a bard swarming lightcrawlers in PoD. Pretty sure that's why it was changed.

Well it still works in kunark/velious on live, just logged in and pulled half of velks and had it all on my pet.

[Bruno]

We were aoe'ing both Chardok and Seb on live before luclin but nothing like 180 mobs lol. More like 20 and we died a shitload doing it.

This.

[Ambrotos]

The only reason they nerfed it was because the mobs in the grey and the deep hit for a max of like 60 at the time. Not to mention they had under 2k hps. Sony spazzed out and over reacted and didn't fix what they should have in the first place.

AoEs in other places still worked.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

But pulling the aoe was never as easy as it was in chardok. Once we had em locked it was almost boring, but it was mostly seb / fungus grove (and sometimes velks if you could get people out of the zone, luls) and it was mostly 40-50 mobs tops. Also, during luclin :p

[botrainer]

It bothers me that you cant rarely find a needed class, or when you find your needed class level 57/58 just takes off you because oh dudes Ive been called to do Chardok AOE peace....It was very annoying always trying replace clerics, and chanters because chardok AOE would say hey want afk exp?

Id like this looked at and possibly done as a way to clear to royals or something but not as a form of a quick hit to 60. If you look at the history of EQ, any form of quick hitting for exps was always nerfed, and nerfed hard. AoE was something of an idea for a raid to use time to time. and it was treated as such. Earthshaker pulling during the lvl 70/75 era of EQ Was nerfed when people were mastering 200 to 300 mob pulls from 2 earthshaker carring warriors in the Hive instances...(I know because I was one of them players who had 2 earthshakers)

[a_gnoll_pup]

Dev's mentality was way different when Luclin hit.

Not classic.

[pufen]

OP you kinda sound like a bitch right now.

[Strifer]

#RiPChArDoK2014

http://i.imgur.com/oeKRAyq.gif

[Ikonoclastia]

OP you kinda sound like a bitch right now.
Awesome. Thank you for your input. :)

[Nightbear]

Vyal is the man! Biggest pulls in dok

[Ikonoclastia]

It bothers me that you cant rarely find a needed class, or when you find your needed class level 57/58 just takes off you because oh dudes Ive been called to do Chardok AOE peace....It was very annoying always trying replace clerics, and chanters because chardok AOE would say hey want afk exp?

Id like this looked at and possibly done as a way to clear to royals or something but not as a form of a quick hit to 60. If you look at the history of EQ, any form of quick hitting for exps was always nerfed, and nerfed hard. AoE was something of an idea for a raid to use time to time. and it was treated as such. Earthshaker pulling during the lvl 70/75 era of EQ Was nerfed when people were mastering 200 to 300 mob pulls from 2 earthshaker carring warriors in the Hive instances...(I know because I was one of them players who had 2 earthshakers)
Same. If you get to 60 it should be the same way everyone in classic EQ got there. Not sitting afk and skipping 2/3rds of the leveling by exploiting missing mechanics.

Sure there will be some people pufs that don't like it but they can always go play WoW.

[Orruar]

OP you kinda sound like a bitch right now.

[Ikonoclastia]

Am I threatening your little non-classic exploit? :)

[Lisset]

It was classic. I remember doing tons of AE on live, particularly in the Hole. Having a faulty memory and pulling out random patch notes doesn't make you right.

[Bruno]

Am I threatening your little non-classic exploit? :)

It actually sounds like it's threatening you lol. You're the only one that seems to be crying about it.

[Ikonoclastia]

It was classic. I remember doing tons of AE on live, particularly in the Hole. Having a faulty memory and pulling out random patch notes doesn't make you right.
The hole was not Kunark with its aggro rules and pet pulling zonewide was impossible. The evidence I linked is outright proof that it was not classic and never could have been done in classic EQ.

Theres around 20 different posts from multiple sources, as well as Sony documentation in there that shows that the 180+ mob rubbish in Chardok on here was impossible on live.

That's also disregarding the resist issues: (2002 Luclin Era)

Chardok -- lots of resists and stuns, unmanageable past 20 unless you stick to the entrance, but then you can't find more than 15 mobs anyway.
http://www.graffe.com/forums/showthread.php?6083-Zones-you-AOE-group-at

[Tewaz]

Even if they nerf the pull leashing, the groups will just pull to a more central location.

[Ikonoclastia]

Even if they nerf the pull leashing, the groups will just pull to a more central location.
Pulling to a central location is fine. That's how you aoe'd Chardok in the day. In stages. Was doing a bit more research, I think this thread if you read it pretty much explains a lot.

This is probably the best part of the thread as it gives a general idea of the chase range in Chardok:

Quote:Hmm last time I tried to pull him to zone he ended up warping back to his room like a tethered mob.

He's a kunark mob so he works in the same fashion as all kunark mobs: if you outrun them, they run away from you and end up back at their spawn point until you get within "range" again. Generally the range is a few dozen feet out of casting range, so you have to be sure it stays within that distance the whole way up (z-axis ignored).


Thread is here => http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3782

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Pulling to a central location is fine. That's how you aoe'd Chardok in the day. In stages. Was doing a bit more research, I think this thread if you read it pretty much explains a lot.

This is probably the best part of the thread as it gives a general idea of the chase range in Chardok:



Thread is here => http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3782

And the only reason you could pull those is because casters couldn't finish their casts without LOS and a reasonable distance (just slightly farther then initial cast range). If it would come with this change, I'd gladly have it come. But we've been dealing with that shit for a long, long time now.

[mrmop520]

And the only reason you could pull those is because casters couldn't finish their casts without LOS and a reasonable distance (just slightly farther then initial cast range). If it would come with this change, I'd gladly have it come. But we've been dealing with that shit for a long, long time now.

Monks would rejoice at this being fixed lol

[Gaffin 7.0]

you can honestly AE anywhere, ive done it in seb, even though I personally think its redic people level so fast and easy and agree with you, let them keep it in chardok instead of other zones. who the fuck really goes there anyway, its got decent loot but horrible pathing.

[Swish]

used to duo in chardok (ench/cleric) before the masses came and got mad at people wanting to spoil their party.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Monks would rejoice at this being fixed lol

Bard kiters, too. Suddenly fear becomes pathetically easy to kite :P

[Traxan]

Go aheah, Nerf the fuck outta it! That'll make it really classic :p

[Traxan]

From first hand perspective of how these encounters occur....

You're in a zone tapping on some mobs with a group. All is well.

After a bit you notice a rumbling or more often than not you do not get a warning.

Maybe this is what might pacify the situation in most regards:

Take others into consideration. Let em know you are going to tear it up.

In EQ if you use your head you know when to get out of the way of many dangers.

If warned, I have 3 choices.

Stay, maintain my area and take my chances.
Beat them at their own game and throw a wrench in their works.
Suck it up, leave and fight another day.

That's all.

EQ is dangerous for more than just mobs. It is mobs, bosses & environment, but it is also about having to rub elbows with those that want to stretch their wings in their way. I would have to say that standard group situations still dominate most zone encounters.

My 2cp
Sparqs Itup

[Overthrow]

I know for a fact, Triton from Povar , was AEing shit before Luclin. There is even old pictures of them posted up AEing over 60+ mobs in end-game zones around luclin release. It is more of common knowledge now, which is why it is bigger on P99. The only people doing it back in the 99-2003 days were top guilds. Monks and different classes can do the AE pulls, so the /petattack command, even though isn't classic, it can still be done without one.

[Overthrow]

I'd also like to point out that more shit is common knowledge these days, so basically all the stuff that was classic and not many people were doing it, will have a shitload of people doing it.

[Ikonoclastia]

I know for a fact, Triton from Povar , was AEing shit before Luclin. There is even old pictures of them posted up AEing over 60+ mobs in end-game zones around luclin release. It is more of common knowledge now, which is why it is bigger on P99. The only people doing it back in the 99-2003 days were top guilds. Monks and different classes can do the AE pulls, so the /petattack command, even though isn't classic, it can still be done without one.
No one is saying aoe wasn't a thing. It was, but you could not pull 180+ mobs in Chardok unless you somehow could manage to pull them, walk them up to the entrance while they're beating on you and then aoe them.

Like it explains in the thread I linked, if you ran away and waited for the mobs to come they wouldn't come, because if you got too far ahead they'd go back to spawn point.

You definitely couldn't be at the entrance, with your pet down deep in Chardok and hit pet attack (because pets only followed commands if they were in /say range) and even if you could have given you were so far away the mob would kill your pet, realise you were much farther than it was willing to chase you and then it'd do nothing at all except add you to its hate list.

Has nothing to do with magical hindsight.

[Overthrow]

I agree with the pet statement, as said earlier I think it took awhile for the mobs to stop chasing you and a certain distance. You most likely wouldn't lose too much agro if you were social agroing the mobs up depending on how far away you got from them, if you did it would probably be the last 20 or so mobs. Still giving you a good kill count.

On the other thread you had added, the only difference I can see is that in the first thread you had posted people were complaining about resists and other stuff but they were saying they were around 53-56, which will give you more resists.

I think you see chardok AE here a lot more for a few different reasons. 1. People know the game mechanics a lot better. 2. There is a lot more higher level characters on the server who are end game geared due to Kunark being out so long. 3. Most people moved up to newer expansion zones as they were released, leaving less downtime for people to AE for PL and more people trying to progress. 4. When kunark was a thing, people were probably exping in Chardok more often. 5. Expansions being released at a faster pace left people trying out newer zones for better exp and loot.

[Ikonoclastia]

I agree with the pet statement, as said earlier I think it took awhile for the mobs to stop chasing you and a certain distance. You most likely wouldn't lose too much agro if you were social agroing the mobs up depending on how far away you got from them, if you did it would probably be the last 20 or so mobs. Still giving you a good kill count.

On the other thread you had added, the only difference I can see is that in the first thread you had posted people were complaining about resists and other stuff but they were saying they were around 53-56, which will give you more resists.

I think you see chardok AE here a lot more for a few different reasons. 1. People know the game mechanics a lot better. 2. There is a lot more higher level characters on the server who are end game geared due to Kunark being out so long. 3. Most people moved up to newer expansion zones as they were released, leaving less downtime for people to AE for PL and more people trying to progress. 4. When kunark was a thing, people were probably exping in Chardok more often. 5. Expansions being released at a faster pace left people trying out newer zones for better exp and loot.
You can get some pretty awesome chain aggro going in Chardok but it has to come from a mob you actively hit rather than a mob with secondary aggro. Also comments on pulliing the Overking stated "the range is a few dozen feet out of casting range" and "you basically have to walk the king up" meaning the range is not that far, which would make sense because its in a dungeon.

Another post I found regarding LOIO basically stated ranges were different in different zones and LOIO it was about visual range of a mob.

Take a look at this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6u29kMgO9s

compare to on live below.

Not that impossible mechanic 1 starts at the pet pulling, #2 is the long train that keeps coming out the tunnel disregarding lazy aggro, #3 as he levitates over the towers, mobs should have stopped chasing shortly after that, #4 is the heal, the mobs take 30 seconds or so to get to the group after the heal, they're way too far away.

[Ikonoclastia]

Live Chardok AOE (2003)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7CiZFBG9ec

[Swifty]

Live Chardok AOE (2003)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7CiZFBG9ec

Video says 11/07-2004, practically 2005. Not classic.

[Ikonoclastia]

Video says 11/07-2004, practically 2005. Not classic.
Lol. Yeah 2004 and they're still doing partial aoe's. Its a classic zone and no changes were made to Chardok after the initial upgrade.

What's not classic is the crap in the first vid.

[Overthrow]

That video is after Chardok revamp, the drillmaster and other named mobs are not in the current Chardok, which makes it a lot easier. They are still crushing the mobs, just looks like more of a crawl then an AE pull.

[Swifty]

Lol. Yeah 2004 and they're still doing partial aoe's. Its a classic zone and no changes were made to Chardok after the initial upgrade.

What's not classic is the crap in the first vid.

7th expansion: Gates of Discord (February 2004)
8th expansion: Omens of War (September 2004)

[Ikonoclastia]

If you're still not convinced despite all the evidence I provided then show me a single post in era which mentions aoe'ing 180+ mobs, or hell, even 100 mobs in Chardok.

[Swifty]

Wait.. what?

[metatron]

this server started out classic but is not any longer because of an over-geared and underpopulater dynamic...in short it has become a whole new creation

[Lisset]

Let me translate this whole thread.

"I suck and if I can't play there, neither can anyone else"

[Ikonoclastia]

Let me translate this whole thread.

"I suck and if I can't play there, neither can anyone else"
More like "I'm tired of ftards from wow ruining my games, why don't they go back to wow and their cartoon harleys".

[Man0warr]

If you're still not convinced despite all the evidence I provided then show me a single post in era which mentions aoe'ing 180+ mobs, or hell, even 100 mobs in Chardok.

No one does 180, that would require 5 enchanters to ensure success.

Most pullers do 120-130 range so it can be done with 3 ench, and you can still wipe if you get strings of bad resists and one enchanter takes too many hits.

You also realize these enchanters are 60, not 53-55 like the ones in all your "evidence". The lowest level enchanter allowed in Chardok AE is 58, and only if the other two are 60 - even that can be dicey.

If all we had was level 54ish enchanters then you probably couldn't pull more than 40 because of the resists - anymore and the enchanters are dead.

[indiscriminate_hater]

More like "I'm tired of ftards from wow ruining my games, why don't they go back to wow and their cartoon harleys".

I, for one, would support cartoon harleys on p99

[Lisset]

More like "I'm tired of ftards from wow ruining my games, why don't they go back to wow and their cartoon harleys".

Never played wow, sorry. And how is someone else having fun in a way that they enjoy but you don't, ruining your game? Seriously, you're like the Christian that thinks rock music is evil so therefore wants to ban it for everyone.

[Dragonsblood1987]

Never played wow, sorry. And how is someone else having fun in a way that they enjoy but you don't, ruining your game? Seriously, you're like the Christian that thinks rock music is evil so therefore wants to ban it for everyone.

Does anyone actually derive enjoyment from chardok aoe groups..?


Its one thing to play a game the way you enjoy it, but its an entirely different ballgame when youre monopolizing an entire zone and charging people 2kp a pull.


I'd love to see a group of chanters and shamans creep down past an aoe group, charm mobs, MR, SoW, haste, and stat buff them right before the AoE pull starts. shit would be glorious.

[Imslap]

Does anyone actually derive enjoyment from chardok aoe groups..?


Its one thing to play a game the way you enjoy it, but its an entirely different ballgame when youre monopolizing an entire zone and charging people 2kp a pull.


I'd love to see a group of chanters and shamans creep down past an aoe group, charm mobs, MR, SoW, haste, and stat buff them right before the AoE pull starts. shit would be glorious.

I love going around noobie areas on my druid buffing the shit out of charmed bats

[Lisset]

Does anyone actually derive enjoyment from chardok aoe groups..?


Its one thing to play a game the way you enjoy it, but its an entirely different ballgame when youre monopolizing an entire zone and charging people 2kp a pull.


I'd love to see a group of chanters and shamans creep down past an aoe group, charm mobs, MR, SoW, haste, and stat buff them right before the AoE pull starts. shit would be glorious.

Yes, sometimes I enjoy the 2k per pull. But you know what? I also give proxies to my guildmates. It helps them get past what is often a tough time grinding for them and in many cases they've admitted that it helps them keep from getting burned out. And that makes me feel good. I get a lot more enjoyment out of that than camping with crypt with a bunch of asshats I've never met who are focused solely on what they can get.

But yeah, I actually do enjoy AE'ing.

[Clark]

aoe groups where nerfed 3 months into luclin, and mainly in luclin areas. shit is classic sadly.

:cool:

[Dragonsblood1987]

I love going around noobie areas on my druid buffing the shit out of charmed bats

Youre supposed to look out for the children.



Hassle the nerds that interfere with gameplay, not the newborns.

[Man0warr]

Does anyone actually derive enjoyment from chardok aoe groups..?


Its one thing to play a game the way you enjoy it, but its an entirely different ballgame when youre monopolizing an entire zone and charging people 2kp a pull.


I'd love to see a group of chanters and shamans creep down past an aoe group, charm mobs, MR, SoW, haste, and stat buff them right before the AoE pull starts. shit would be glorious.

They do AEs in Chardok because it is an unused shit hole until the revamp. No named camps, loot is zone wide, and CR is a nightmare.

Seriously, if there wasn't AEing going on you might see a shaman/ench duo every once and awhile and the usual Royals kills.

[radditsu]

Ae is great. Chardok is sukm let the zone be used how it should be.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Thread summary :
OP points out that the Chardok AE trend is definitely not something that occurred in the same way on Live. In fact, in instances where a zone has been "taken over" for overdriven powerlevving, the devs took steps to nerf the pl. (It being taken for granted that it it clearly not remotely in the spirit of the game to skip the 55+ xp-ing, and also monopolizes loot unique to the zone, e.g. chardok pipe etc etc)

Players with multiple 60-toons that would hate to actually have to level their alts and, you know, play the game, call the OP a player-hating pussy. (Not an altogether unexpected reaction)

Enlightened GM shows up and say, nuh-uh, it was totally like that in classic, you're imagining things, stop bothering the 1%ers.

Sideline viewers shake their heads....

[Man0warr]

Loot like Chardok Pipe, SBS, and SoS are all more accessible thinks to Chardok AE - it's not being monopolized.

Also nothing stopping a group from going down there to camp it if they don't want to pay 5k for one (the going rate on an MQ) - the AE group has no grounds to stop you.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

If that's your only quibble with what I said, I thank you for your support and expect to see your name on the referendum to nerf the chardok pbaoe during the next patch.

[Man0warr]

That was pretty much the only thing you said that could affect anyone on this server.

No one has put forth any in-era evidence to say that AEing Chardok is "not Classic".

There are several factors at work here, but it mostly comes down to players here have 15 years of knowledge we didn't have back in 1999/2000 that is causing this AE group to happen. Pet pulling with a necro may not have been possible like it is here but there are other classes who can pull 120ish mobs without dying even if that was nerfed.

Just because the OP doesn't know anyone who personally attempted AEing in Chardok on such a scale doesn't mean it wasn't possible.

[Ahldagor]

staff doesn't follow player referendum's. idiots

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

@ mano - Click any of the many links in itt. Seemed like some pretty good evidence put up.

@ Ahldag - Bet you're a big hit at parties. (IT WAS A JOKE, MORON)

[Man0warr]

Almost all those links are for the 2003-2006 time period.

[Daldolma]

Anyone that disagree's with me, let me just say first, go fuck yourself.

Steroids, they'll tell you they're bad and all that stuff but its rubbish.... used them non-stop since 2007

[Ikonoclastia]

Almost all those links are for the 2003-2006 time period.
Lol all the links I posted in both bug reports are 1999-2001, I used a filter and then checked each dated post. The only post from after 2001 was one where the poster is saying they changed the /pet attack to work globally.

[Torino]

Exploit= people working smater and better than they did in 1999

hax!

[Ikonoclastia]

Exploit= people working smater and better than they did in 1999

hax!
Well to be working smarter then they did in 1999, you would need to be using the same mechanics, but using them in a more innovative way. So No.

Killing 180+ mobs > killing 20-40 (you turn 5 to 10 aoe and meditating into 1 aoe). Of course it trivializes what was designed to be the hardest part of the leveling curve with 1-50 being around 200,000,000 xp, and 50 to 60 being around 400,000,000 xp. So overall better No.

[Torino]

plain and simple, if you dont like it, don't do it.

But its clearly not a bug.
And people have been doing it for over 6 months....
You don't think the staff knows about it?
If they felt something was wrong..that would be that.

[Ikonoclastia]

plain and simple, if you dont like it, don't do it.

But its clearly not a bug.
And people have been doing it for over 6 months....
You don't think the staff knows about it?
If they felt something was wrong..that would be that.
I think they probably didn't know about the mechanics that existed at the time or they didn't have the details of how they worked exactly, now they do.

Its clearly a bug in terms of how it works here and how it worked on live. No 180+ 5 million xp pulls there.

[Torino]

so what are they going to do, make the mobs worth less exp than what was meant for their level?

People can AE the same way they do in Chardok in amy other places ( droga being one of them)

They are not going to revamp a zone because of this.

And as I recall on Live ( Vallon Zek) AE groups were very popular within their team.
I did it on my cleric, and on my chanter.

[Ikonoclastia]

so what are they going to do, make the mobs worth less exp than what was meant for their level?

People can AE the same way they do in Chardok in amy other places ( droga being one of them)

They are not going to revamp a zone because of this.

And as I recall on Live ( Vallon Zek) AE groups were very popular within their team.
I did it on my cleric, and on my chanter.
They can do that because the whole of Kunark is broken in when compared to Kunark on live. Without classic Kunark / Velious lazy aggro and with /pet attack being non-classic global (/pet attack being global was put in after Luclin afaik) then yes I'm sure you can AoE almost any Kunark zone that doesn't have Antonican mez mechanics.

Its highly likely the charm mezz mechanics (charm and stun resist mobs) were changed in Kunark because of the lazy aggro that was put in, or lazy aggro was put in to prevent the removal of that level 52 rule. Try AoE the hole like you do in Kunark. Good luck with the golems.

[Ambrotos]

Op should be reported for trying to hold back the 99% by making claims he can't back up.

[Ambrotos]

AOE groups were nerfed when the deep and the grey were used to collect massive AA exp.

It has nothing to do with anything before hand. It was just the amount of AA exp people were collecting scared sony about keeping their cash cow chugging along. They nerfed the AoE areas of those zones and added in the function of mobs stop chasing you after a distance.

My group alone collected over 100 AA points in 3 days in the deep. We ended up having a Gm and a dev come by and watch how we were doing it. The mobs had 2-4k hps and hit in the 30s, and were blue to us. The same thing with mobs in the Grey.

I remember this clearly since you could run through the Fungi Grove and survive since they stopped coming after you.

[Ikonoclastia]

AOE groups were nerfed when the deep and the grey were used to collect massive AA exp.

It has nothing to do with anything before hand. It was just the amount of AA exp people were collecting scared sony about keeping their cash cow chugging along. They nerfed the AoE areas of those zones and added in the function of mobs stop chasing you after a distance.

My group alone collected over 100 AA points in 3 days in the deep. We ended up having a Gm and a dev come by and watch how we were doing it. The mobs had 2-4k hps and hit in the 30s, and were blue to us. The same thing with mobs in the Grey.

I remember this clearly since you could run through the Fungi Grove and survive since they stopped coming after you.
Posted in 2000:
Use Snare on random attackers. You will get attacked by lots of wandering creatures. It's best to snare them and keep pulling or tracking your real target. These snared creatures will stop chasing and therefor will not be added to your pull once at your group.
http://invectus.www5.50megs.com/guides/TrakTeeth.htm

Lazy Aggro

In Kunark and Velious, if you are beyond a certain distance from a mob, it will lose interest and no longer pursue you, though will still maintain you on the hate list with an increased aggro radius.
http://youngsdojo.tripod.com/Pulling.html

have someone outside agro range inviso you, get up run and then drop inviso and mob is off like a shot after you ( with old world agro, Kunark and Veli agro has the lazy arse mob factor as I call it, things that are still agro'ed on you but won't waste the energy to beat on you unless you get back into a decent range where they don't have to run as far ).
http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/showthread.php?t=8889


Whole Thread is here:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155722

[Ambrotos]

And if you are in range of the mobs while pulling aoe pulls, they all still come. Thus AOE groups were still effective and were well known about. Same can be said with Bard swam kiting and them rounding up all their mobs. Running at bard speed but still being able to get 40+ mobs together to kill should tell you the "lazy agro" is pretty far.


So stop trying to apply one small difference with a broad stoke to change things you dislike. I do agree with the "lazy agro" but it was pretty damn far. How far? I can say I would kite at the giant fort in BW, and gate to DL zone line and lose agro most of the times. No idea about any more, or less.

Stick with lazy agro not working and let the devs work it out. It has very little to do with chardok aoe or any other aoe group in a small zone.

[Torino]

yeah, talks about pet aggro does not change the fact that Sk's ( without pet) and monks are usually the pullers.
FD is the key here.

[Ikonoclastia]

And if you are in range of the mobs while pulling aoe pulls, they all still come. Thus AOE groups were still effective and were well known about. Same can be said with Bard swam kiting and them rounding up all their mobs. Running at bard speed but still being able to get 40+ mobs together to kill should tell you the "lazy agro" is pretty far.


So stop trying to apply one small difference with a broad stoke to change things you dislike. I do agree with the "lazy agro" but it was pretty damn far. How far? I can say I would kite at the giant fort in BW, and gate to DL zone line and lose agro most of the times. No idea about any more, or less.

Stick with lazy agro not working and let the devs work it out. It has very little to do with chardok aoe or any other aoe group in a small zone.
Yeah 1 change (pet attack) that let's you park a mob deep in a dungeon and auto pull with no risk 100 mobs.

Actually it's not one change because if chase range was working properly nothing would come.

As for lazy aggro range one of links I posted says a few dozen feet from cast range and the other say in regards to pulling king you had to "basically walk him up". Meaning in Chardok it was not very far.

Another said it varied in different zones with LOIO about visual range so your experience outside of Chardok is likely not relevant to inside it.

[Man0warr]

Doesn't require a pet to pull, monks do it all the time.

[Ikonoclastia]

Doesn't require a pet to pull, monks do it all the time.
Works a lot better with a pet. I'd like to see a monk pull 180 mobs in Chardok if he wasn't allowed to run sow speed and had to stay in range due to classic chase range. He'd be dead before he got halfway to zone in.

[indiscriminate_hater]

don't have you have something better to do with your time? jesus give it a rest

[Torino]

Come sit at the ent to Chardok, its dont with a monk 90% of the time.

[Ikonoclastia]

don't have you have something better to do with your time? jesus give it a rest
Not really I'm posting in between medding. Besides its fun to watch you all squirm at the thought of losing your 2kpp proxie 5mill xp per pull sploit :)

[Ikonoclastia]

Actually correct -

Someone stated in another thread you can get about 15% of 54 per pull. 54 is 46,000,000 xp. If a 54 gets 15% of 46,000,000 xp that's 6,000,000 xp and a bit.

In a group of 5 54's the total xp would be 34,500,000 xp. But given the rest of the group is 57-60 the total xp per pull is going to be 100,000,000 or so lol.

totally classic.

[Bruno]

Not really I'm posting in between medding. Besides its fun to watch you all squirm at the thought of losing your 2kpp proxie 5mill xp per pull sploit :)

The thing you don't realize is nobody is squirming lol. You already tried to post this jab and it didn't work the first time. You are literally the only one here completely obsessed with this.

[Ikonoclastia]

The thing you don't realize is nobody is squirming lol. You already tried to post this jab and it didn't work the first time. You are literally the only one here completely obsessed with this.
Sure sure. That's why its 16 pages long because you're all not worried :)

[Bruno]

Sure sure. That's why its 16 pages long because you're all not worried :)

Yup. :rolleyes:

[slappytwotoes]

Sure sure. That's why its 16 pages long because you're all not worried :)

Dude you brought up a legitimate issue and people are agreeing with you... not sure why you're being all confrontational and shit.

The point isn't to make people worry or squirm, its to affect change right? Besides, this affects a lot more than Chardok AOE.

Good work on researching btw, don't think I've EVER seen Lazy Agro brought up on bug reports yet its clearly a core classic mechanic.

[Ikonoclastia]

Yup. :rolleyes:
Relax. I put in the bug reports so if they want to fix it then they will, if they don't then they don't. No skin off my nose.

I'm in no hurry to get to 60 and as far as I'm concerned the more people that PL themselves, using exploits or whatever, the better off I'll be since those people tend to fwits.

You high level's can deal with all their pantie twisting, enjoy.

[radditsu]

Lazy aggro range was huge. At least half the size of WW.... fucking ice burrowers man. Not sure if it would fix your widdle ae buttburt.

[Tasslehofp99]

Lazy aggro range was huge. At least half the size of WW.... fucking ice burrowers man. Not sure if it would fix your widdle ae buttburt.

I think I said this like 8-9 pages ago, or atleast something along these lines. It was the resists that made AE groups on live ridiculously hard compared to p99. I mean, AE groups on live regularly had atleast 5-6 enchanters.

[Gaffin 7.0]

I think I said this like 8-9 pages ago, or atleast something along these lines. It was the resists that made AE groups on live ridiculously hard compared to p99. I mean, AE groups on live regularly had atleast 5-6 enchanters.

you are a scrub how would u know, eat some wheaties

[Kekephee]

Since we're kind of talking about something like it, here's a question: Does anybody remember how if you pulled a fucking ton of mobs back on live, they wouldn't all chase you? Like at one point, and this was way into the timeline so it's entirely possible some shit changed, but I used to go down into Lguk on my paladin in PoP days and stampede around the empty zone for shits and giggles, and one thing I liked to do was to see how many I could pull at once. This thing would happen where once I had like 15 mobs after me, only like 8 would actually chase me- the rest would kind of bug out, path around, half-heartedly run toward me a little bit then walk around some more. As soon as one of the ones that were on me would go down, one of the half-assing mobs would snap out of it and come after me directly.


Is this the lazy aggro you're talking about? Because the range on that was fucking nothing.

[radditsu]

I think I said this like 8-9 pages ago, or atleast something along these lines. It was the resists that made AE groups on live ridiculously hard compared to p99. I mean, AE groups on live regularly had atleast 5-6 enchanters.

Nope...2 maybe.

[Ikonoclastia]

Lazy aggro range was huge. At least half the size of WW.... fucking ice burrowers man. Not sure if it would fix your widdle ae buttburt.
Last time I checked WW wasn't inside Chardok. As stated earlier, there are several posts I linked from 2000 that stated inside Chardok it was a couple dozen feet out of casting range and you had to basically walk the king up to zone otherwise he'd reset because of lazy aggro.

So no, not half the size of WW.

[Ikonoclastia]

These were all posted prior to the release of Velious in mid 2000:

What happens is, probably, that you have three different radii on the monsters. You have the aggro radius, you have the "continue to follow to smash" radius and the "help help I am getting hurt" radius.

The last one of these seems to be too big...

Now lets say that the tank goes and pulls a few mobs. Those within aggro radius starts to follow him. Some other mobs were inside the "help help getting hurt" radius, and gets the puller on their hate list. Later, while fighting, or after fight, you heal the puller. This puts YOU on the hate list, and since the puller hasn't done any damage to it, you go to the top. This is why when such a mob gets near camp, it goes straight for the healer (or the bard).

As for the autoaggroing, I'm not quite sure how it works, but it might be that the spawning critter is within range of another that is aggro on you, but out of "follow and smash" radius, which would make the spawning critter go straight for you.
http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9847


Monsters in Kunark will also "give up" on trying to catch someone pretty easily, which can lead to problems.

Your puller, with SoW, goes out into the zone, tags a monster, and heads back to your camp. He outpaces the monster a little too much, though, and the monster heads back to his spawn point. No biggie - he pulls something else instead. Remember, though - he's *still* on that monster's aggro list! From that point on, every time you heal or buff the puller, you're putting *yourself* higher on that monster's aggro list - and since the monster has been "activated", so to speak, he's yelling for help around him, even though he's not fighting you.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168

If you have a think about that, the radius cannot have been 'half of a zone' given that at one stage the cry for help radius was greater than the 'continue to follow and smash ' radius. If that had been the case, then you would have had half a zone of monsters attacking you each time you engaged one mob.

It was very likely as stated, not far out of casting range.

[Tewaz]

Much research. Very scientific.

[Ikonoclastia]

Since we're kind of talking about something like it, here's a question: Does anybody remember how if you pulled a fucking ton of mobs back on live, they wouldn't all chase you? Like at one point, and this was way into the timeline so it's entirely possible some shit changed, but I used to go down into Lguk on my paladin in PoP days and stampede around the empty zone for shits and giggles, and one thing I liked to do was to see how many I could pull at once. This thing would happen where once I had like 15 mobs after me, only like 8 would actually chase me- the rest would kind of bug out, path around, half-heartedly run toward me a little bit then walk around some more. As soon as one of the ones that were on me would go down, one of the half-assing mobs would snap out of it and come after me directly.


Is this the lazy aggro you're talking about? Because the range on that was fucking nothing.
Very likely not the "lazy aggro' we're talking about. AFAIK it was implemented in Kunark and never affected Antonica until PoP came out (can't confirm that PoP thing though).

There may be been some code that stopped you getting more than a specific amount of mobs on you in vanilla EQ but I don't know anything about it. Could have been a limitation of NPC hatelists. I think the early hatelist did have a limit of 15 and was later increased to 60, maybe something to do with that? Though that limit affected players being put on a hatelist of an NPC.

[Gaffin 7.0]

dude its not ever getting nerfed its been going on for years. let the no backbone weakling's AoE

[Ikonoclastia]

dude its not ever getting nerfed its been going on for years. let the no backbone weakling's AoE
Chardok aside and the aoe thing aside the chase mechanics affected every mob, zone and dungeon in Kunark, as well as Velious.

Its a huge classic mechanic, allowed some talented monks, necro's, sk's and bards to do some pretty amazing things chain pulling singles and splitting mobs. If we don't have classic "lazy aggro" in Kunark and Velious then we're not playing on a classic mechanics server imo.

[Lisset]

Nothing you say about mechanics. You've been here for 2 and a half years and say you aren't in a "hurry" to get 60.

You fail at EQ. Heck, I hit 60 faster than that on live and I spent DAYS fishing in oot.

[Gaffin 7.0]

nothing is ever gonna be 100 % classic like live was, specially pathing and aggro mechanics, they run on a client that works the best for them. gotta accept it.

i remember AoEing sebilis during luclin and velious for lvls/AA on alts

[Ikonoclastia]

Nothing you say about mechanics. You've been here for 2 and a half years and say you aren't in a "hurry" to get 60.

You fail at EQ. Heck, I hit 60 faster than that on live and I spent DAYS fishing in oot.
Depends on your definition of "failure". My definition is enjoying myself. As long as I'm enjoying myself playing EQ I can't be said to be failing. PL to 60 and not enjoying myself would be a greater failure in most peoples eyes.

As to failure, your failure to appreciate that levelling to 60 is not the end all be all of EQ is a greater failure than my failure to get to 60. Poor Lisset.



nothing is ever gonna be 100 % classic like live was, specially pathing and aggro mechanics, they run on a client that works the best for them. gotta accept it.

i remember AoEing sebilis during luclin and velious for lvls/AA on alts
Sure some things will not be 100% but using Antonican chase mechanics in Kunark and Velious is not 'some things', its not a small thing its a huge mechanics change that affects every NPC, Zone and Dungeon in Kunark and Velious.

Some small things that it affects:

Pulling mobs from extreme range with no risk (Mage on Ogre Island) ------ Pet --- Faydedar no risk pull
Getting 100,000,000 xp per pull in Chardok with no risk or effort
Bards kiting an entire Kunark zone like WW for massive exp

I also did AoE in Seb and Chardok, I also did swarm kiting Lightcrawlers in PoD for 1aa every 30 minutes but that got nerfed and was nowhere near 100,000,000 xp per 15 mins.

Do you ever remember pulling almost every mob at once in Sebilis or Chardok and insta-gibbing them down in 30 seconds? No because it wasn't possible.

[Solrias]

In classic EQ, I know mobs would stop coming up to you when you had 3 in melee range. The rest of the mobs stood slightly away and stared at you, or nuked you, etc. But only 3 would actually close in. I don't remember when that was fixed (people eventually abused it for raid mechanics, aggro 3 low level mobs+ dragon, etc), but that made AE'ing more of a pain in the ass early on. You couldn't pull everything into the corner, which would make AE'ing 100+ mobs much more difficult.

[zanderklocke]

I'm confused on how lazy aggro would affect bard kiting like you've stated in your post. If I've read your posts correctly, the mobs reset if you get too far away?

A bard doesn't really ever need to get far away from the mobs when pulling mobs.

[Gaffin 7.0]

i dont think aggro is any different, just pathing tbh

[Ikonoclastia]

I'm confused on how lazy aggro would affect bard kiting like you've stated in your post. If I've read your posts correctly, the mobs reset if you get too far away?

A bard doesn't really ever need to get far away from the mobs when pulling mobs.
People think lazy aggro was quite large but it wasn't, they only think that because they were running and the mob they were trying to zone from was also running, they were probably using J-Boots which is not significantly faster than mobs. If they had rooted the mob so it wasn't running then run from it they would have found it didn't aggro back onto them very far from where they rooted it.

Now bards typically going to go out and grab a bunch of non-caster mobs because the caster mobs stop and cast and lose aggro, bard keeps kiting and the mob doesn't chase as its out of chase range, mob goes walking back to its spawn area passing hate to all other mobs on the way which then walk around doing the same to other mobs, chain aggro, including other casters that snare root nuke.

Bard comes back around and suddenly has a shit-ton of rooting, nuking, snaring casters he never pulled on him and dies.

On P1999, that' doesn't happen because the casters continue chasing him if he happens to grab one accidentally.

[Ikonoclastia]

People think lazy aggro was quite large but it wasn't, they only think that because they were running and the mob they were trying to zone from was also running, they were probably using J-Boots which is not significantly faster than mobs. If they had rooted the mob so it wasn't running then run from it they would have found it didn't aggro back onto them very far from where they rooted it.

Now bards typically going to go out and grab a bunch of non-caster mobs because the caster mobs stop and cast and lose aggro, bard keeps kiting and the mob doesn't chase as its out of chase range, mob goes walking back to its spawn area passing hate to all other mobs on the way which then walk around doing the same to other mobs, chain aggro, including other casters that snare root nuke.

Bard comes back around and suddenly has a shit-ton of rooting, nuking, snaring casters he never pulled on him and dies.

On P1999, that' doesn't happen because the casters continue chasing him if he happens to grab one accidentally.

One more thing:

Special Circumstances: Aggro and Distance (Kiting) #15 [-]
One newer piece of code is based on kiting, or rather, what is called anti-kiting code. Just as sitting down closer to a monster versus further away gets a monster more peeved off, a monster who is pissed off at you may eventually give up chasing you if you get too far away and wander back where it came from. This means to successfully kite you must stay far enough away that the monster doesn't hit you but not so far the monster quits chasing you. However, the side effect, if a monster choses to give up the chase, is that the monster still remembers he hated you; and from that moment on he will spread his hatred of you to every friend he meets; and much like a shampoo commercial, they shall tell their friends, and their friends….. if you lose monster while kiting, it is always prudent to zone out to clear the hate lists before you suddenly find yourself unexpectedly swarmed with hordes of unknown admirers.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://handofmanaguildboards.yuku.com/topic/1105#.U7M1e_mSySo

[Lictor]

I don't see how a valid discussion on mechanics is in RnF

[Bruno]

Relax. I put in the bug reports so if they want to fix it then they will, if they don't then they don't. No skin off my nose.


Still walls of text doe.

[Ikonoclastia]

I don't see how a valid discussion on mechanics is in RnF
I assumed it would get lots of hateful posts from chea... um powerlevelers and so preempted the move but was rather disappointed tbh.

[Vyal]

It wasn't impossible to do...
Not only did we use to AoE Dok on live but CoM, Seb, and Guk.

And I have personally done it in all those zones plus skyfire, burning woods, droga, fear, hate, solb and sola on this server and probably more zones if I thought about it longer.

Some of the mechanics and pathing is actually incorrect here but it's more to the benefit of the players so ya they did a really great job at keeping things classic here but at the same time either intentionally or unintentionally limiting the number of zones people can effectively aoe.

[Ikonoclastia]

It wasn't impossible to do...
Not only did we use to AoE Dok on live but CoM, Seb, and Guk.

And I have personally done it in all those zones plus skyfire, burning woods, droga, fear, hate, solb and sola on this server and probably more zones if I thought about it longer.

Some of the mechanics and pathing is actually incorrect here but it's more to the benefit of the players so ya they did a really great job at keeping things classic here but at the same time either intentionally or unintentionally limiting the number of zones people can effectively aoe.
Proof? I recall, I remember, etc etc means nothing. I have provided a shit ton of proof it was not possible to aoe the way Chardok is being aoe'd.

I have found no evidence, no posts, no video's, not anything of classic AoE of 100 to 180+ mobs in Chardok and lots of evidence to show it was not possible.

If people were able to do it it would have been posted (and nerfed soon after) but it was never posted and there is no evidence.

Normal AoE sure. The majority of mobs in Chardok. Nope.

[Vyal]

Proof? I recall, I remember, etc etc means nothing. I have provided a shit ton of proof it was not possible to aoe the way Chardok is being aoe'd.

I have found no evidence, no posts, no video's, not anything of classic AoE of 100 to 180+ mobs in Chardok and lots of evidence to show it was not possible.

If people were able to do it it would have been posted (and nerfed soon after) but it was never posted and there is no evidence.

Normal AoE sure. The majority of mobs in Chardok. Nope.

I did it and never posted videos of it, one because there was not really any software to do it and my pc couldn't handle it. We didn't pull 180 mobs... no way but thats because of connection and pc limits in those days but I know for a fact it would have been doable.

Thats the reason people didn't do it then - hardware / software / and connection...
180 mobs would have blown up my pc back then we had to keep the pulls smaller.

Your not taking into account we have been doing this for years and know exactly where every single mob spawns the exact time every mob spawns the route they take and how long it takes each mob to get to a certain point.

If you ever get a chance to check out Chardok you should stop in with your 2010ish era pc and tell me you don't drop FPS big time looking at 180 mobs getting smoked by 8 people.

[Ikonoclastia]

I did it and never posted videos of it, one because there was not really any software to do it and my pc couldn't handle it. We didn't pull 180 mobs... no way but thats because of connection and pc limits in those days but I know for a fact it would have been doable.

Thats the reason people didn't do it then - hardware / software / and connection...
180 mobs would have blown up my pc back then we had to keep the pulls smaller.

Your not taking into account we have been doing this for years and know exactly where every single mob spawns the exact time every mob spawns the route they take and how long it takes each mob to get to a certain point.

If you ever get a chance to check out Chardok you should stop in with your 2010ish era pc and tell me you don't drop FPS big time looking at 180 mobs getting smoked by 8 people.
No you didn't do it because as I have already proven Chardok had lazy aggro, which would have meant your puller had to stay in close proximity to every mob pulled, even 50 mobs would have been enough to do 5000+ damage every tick melee, 100 mobs 10,000+ and 180 close to 20,000 damage. Not to mention being rooted, blinded, dotted, nuked and stunned.

I'll also point out that in the 10+ years since Kunark there is not a single instance of anyone describing in text or video doing this on live but in the last 6 months there's a good 100+ posts on it from P1999.

Either the best kept secret in EQ history or didn't happen.

[Vyal]

No you didn't do it because as I have already proven Chardok had lazy aggro, which would have meant your puller had to stay in close proximity to every mob pulled, even 50 mobs would have been enough to do 5000+ damage every tick melee, 100 mobs 10,000+ and 180 close to 20,000 damage. Not to mention being rooted, blinded, dotted, nuked and stunned.

I'll also point out that in the 10+ years since Kunark there is not a single instance of anyone describing in text or video doing this on live but in the last 6 months there's a good 100+ posts on it from P1999.

Either the best kept secret in EQ history or didn't happen.

seriously no offense but you don't know what your talking about.

[Ikonoclastia]

seriously no offense but you don't know what your talking about.
No offense but I think I'm one of the few that does. And I have provided evidence to prove it. Your opinion and no provided evidence and the complete lack of any 3rd person in-era links to back up that opinion mean pretty much nothing.

[mtb tripper]

fender bender insurance fraudulent

[Vyal]

No offense but I think I'm one of the few that does. And I have provided evidence to prove it. Your opinion and no provided evidence and the complete lack of any 3rd person in-era links to back up that opinion mean pretty much nothing.

So im telling you I have done aoe pulls on live, I been doing them here for years and almost everything you claim to know about pulling and 1999 era EQ is wrong... It's not opinion its fact you have no idea wtf your talking about.

Dafuq is "Lazy Agro" anyways...

You don't even know how the mechanics of a pull work for starters so how can you even claim to know what your talking about lol.
FYI Im not going to scour the net for something I already know to be true just to satisfy some fucked up troll on elf sim.

[Ikonoclastia]

So im telling you I have done aoe pulls on live, I been doing them here for years and almost everything you claim to know about pulling and 1999 era EQ is wrong... It's not opinion its fact you have no idea wtf your talking about.

Dafuq is "Lazy Agro" anyways...

You don't even know how the mechanics of a pull work for starters so how can you even claim to know what your talking about lol.
FYI Im not going to scour the net for something I already know to be true just to satisfy some fucked up troll on elf sim.
Dafuq is "Lazy Agro" anyways...
Lol. Okay. You've pretty proven you have no idea what your talking about and obviously haven't read any of the links in this thread so that'd make you clueless too.

Thank you. Next.

[Vyal]

But hey man keep your stupid post going please it's free ads to my post in EC tunnel...

Yes that thread needs bumped x1000 cause today is 200 mob pull day,
price is still firm 2k a pull or trades.

[Vyal]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155979

This was impossible on live. Its pretty much just exploiting a bug to kill ridiculous amount of mobs. If its not patched out then it probably should be considered an exploit imo and not allowed on the server.

Given Sony didn't like you killing 40 experience giving mobs, its highly unlikely they would have been okay with 180+.


http://www.waringmcmarrin.com/?page_id=56

Anyone that disagree's with me, let me just say first, go fuck yourself.

RNF bump

[Ikonoclastia]

Lol WoW kiddie ^^

[Ikonoclastia]

This fucking guy......I think arguing with this guy is like arguing with a retard, you can't win. He will always think he knows more about the game and furthermore, he thinks he knows everything to an exact degree when really he is just taking a guess and reading what other people wrote. He has never done AoE on live in that era so he obviously doesn't know much. He claims the agro range was something like 12 steps but that is absolutely retarded, 12 steps and you can still see the mob almost right on you. 12 steps isn't shit in EQ, that's like distance between people standing in the EC tunnel at T1. Dude also never shuts up, claiming to be all knowing and wanting to experience the game but has yet to experience over 50% of it. AE has always been a thing, it always will be. It is on a larger scale because people know mechanics better, faster connections, everything. The server will never be classic because 15 years has past. If you think people had 15 years on a pure classic server with all the mechanics you stated they wouldn't figure out some way to AoE 90+ mobs by then , then your fucking retarded. Also, pulling shit out of some online board doesn't make you right, these were just opinions back in the day and people had a fuck load of them. You can find several guides that say opposite shit based on that era and if you didn't experience just shut up already.
Lol this is getting better.

12 steps... pretty sure that's something you prolly need to take before reading my links.

I didn't claim 12 steps, someone back in 2000 claimed "a couple of dozen feet out of casting range".

By my reckoning, a couple of dozen feet out of casting range would be 24 steps + casting range you damn retard lol.

[Ikonoclastia]

Even at 12 seconds of running from a tree you are still in very close view pane of the tree. That would allow you to only travel 1/1000 of a zone before losing the mob. Still doesn't add up. Also if you don't remember infamous trains of Blackburrow and shit like that. If this were true, trains would be nothing and people would be able to get away from 3 mobs pretty easy. Instead if you remember anything about classic EQ, trains coming up from newbie zones like Blackburrow were common as hell and it would be something like 12+ mobs from the pit even with people killing half the shit or more in the zone so your logic is flawed. Experience more, talk less.
Well now your being more respectful I'll explain some things to you.

We have about 10 links from different boards all in the day saying there was lazy aggro meaning if you got out of range the mob would stop chasing you.

We have evidence though unverified of someone who wrote in 2000 that it was a couple of dozen feet out of casting range.

We have 3 or 4 posts from different sources saying that for a year after Kunark was released assist range (call for help from a mob) was greater than chase range.

We have Sony saying that that was as intended.

We then have Sony a year later saying it was a bug.

If chase range has been huge like you claim then when you attacked a mob that mob mob would have called for help in Chardok or any other zone in Kunark. Given your claim that chase range was huge and given that we know, from contemporaneous posts and Sony saying it was call for help range was greater than chase range, you would have aggroed every mob in chase range by attacking a single mob. Since that never happened, the whole of Kunark would have be completely broken we can assume that chase range was pretty damn small, which seems to verify the claim of the poster who said it was "a couple of dozen feet out of casting range".

Your strawman argument that I never aoe'd or whatever is nonsense. I played multiple characters to 80 in EQ from the close to beginning of vanilla.

I was in a raiding guild and we pulled the Overking to zone many times which is why when I heard about what you are doing in Chardok here I knew it was a bug. Getting just the Overking to zone was a nightmare because if you ran to far he'd go back to spawn, if you stayed close he'd cast blind and other spells on you and kill you, you had to fairly skilfully manage him the entire way up to the zonein. Trying to do that with 180 mobs, a good percentage of which were casters, would be 180 times harder, in fact it would be completely impossible without dying or losing the mobs to lazy aggro.

The way to do it was to run him up, when he stopped to cast you had to stop, duck round a corner to prevent being cast on, wait for him and so on. There's no way you can do that with even 50 mobs because half of them are melee and will pound you while the other are trying to cast on you. You get it now?

[Vyal]

Well now your being more respectful I'll explain some things to you.

We have about 10 links from different boards all in the day saying there was lazy aggro meaning if you got out of range the mob would stop chasing you.

We have evidence though unverified of someone who wrote in 2000 that it was a couple of dozen feet out of casting range.

We have 3 or 4 posts from different sources saying that for a year after Kunark was released assist range (call for help from a mob) was greater than chase range.

We have Sony saying that that was as intended.

We then have Sony a year later saying it was a bug.

If chase range has been huge like you claim then when you attacked a mob that mob mob would have called for help in Chardok or any other zone in Kunark. Given your claim that chase range was huge and given that we know, from contemporaneous posts and Sony saying it was call for help range was greater than chase range, you would have aggroed every mob in chase range by attacking a single mob. Since that never happened, the whole of Kunark would have be completely broken we can assume that chase range was pretty damn small, which seems to verify the claim of the poster who said it was "a couple of dozen feet out of casting range".

Your strawman argument that I never aoe'd or whatever is nonsense. I played multiple characters to 80 in EQ from the close to beginning of vanilla.

I was in a raiding guild and we pulled the Overking to zone many times which is why when I heard about what you are doing in Chardok here I knew it was a bug. Getting just the Overking to zone was a nightmare because if you ran to far he'd go back to spawn, if you stayed close he'd cast blind and other spells on you and kill you, you had to fairly skilfully manage him the entire way up to the zonein. Trying to do that with 180 mobs, a good percentage of which were casters, would be 180 times harder, in fact it would be completely impossible without dying or losing the mobs to lazy aggro.

The way to do it was to run him up, when he stopped to cast you had to stop, duck round a corner to prevent being cast on, wait for him and so on. There's no way you can do that with even 50 mobs because half of them are melee and will pound you while the other are trying to cast on you. You get it now?

You pulled the overking to zone many times uh huh...
Through the locked door - past 40 Dizok then past a hundred mobs.

[radditsu]

Seb trains. City of mist trains. Trak teeth trains. KC trains. Velk trains.

Explain them if range was so low?

[Ikonoclastia]

Oh also, regarding blackburrow - the reason you could pull such trains is because lazy aggro ignores the z-axis. Blackburrow is basically 3 levels, one atop the other around the same grid.

Chardok has a few areas where the grid overlaps levels so the z axis is ignored there and you could pull a decent amount of mobs through that z axis but most of it resides in its own grid area and so it's nowhere near similar in terms of trains from below.

[Vyal]

Oh also, regarding blackburrow - the reason you could pull such trains is because lazy aggro ignores the z-axis. Blackburrow is basically 3 levels, one atop the other around the same grid.

Chardok has a few areas where the grid overlaps levels so the z axis is ignored there and you could pull a decent amount of mobs through that z axis but most of it resides in its own grid area and so it's nowhere near similar in terms of trains from below.

The z from tag mob to tag mob is a hellva lot bigger in dok then blackburrow.

[Ikonoclastia]

You pulled the overking to zone many times uh huh...
Through the locked door - past 40 Dizok then past a hundred mobs.
Yeah. I thought you were the expert and I didn't know anything. Why am I explaining very known mechanics to you.

Its called secondary aggro pulling. Rogue and Enchanter with at least dubious faction. Could also use a few exploits (eye of zom, potions) to get through door. Pacify the kings guards, root one, which aggros the king. King has secondary aggro so he doesn't pass on aggro to other mobs he runs up. Escort him up as explained. By the time the root wears off you'll be out of aggro range so that mob will just sit there doing nothing.

[Gaffin 7.0]

pity reply

[Ikonoclastia]

Trains are easy to explain.

A train is created by someone running from a mob, the mob keeps pace with the person or not far behind. As the person comes into range of other mobs the other mobs aggro and keep pace behind the person. As long as the mob is moving fast enough to keep inside the chase range of the person training then all the mobs will stick.

If the person is sowed and can outrun the mobs in any of those mentioned dungeons fast enough to get out of the mobs chase range on live then the mobs will stop following you.

Since the majority of players running from mobs won't have sow or be able to use jboots the mobs will usually all keep up until the person dies or they zone.

[Ikonoclastia]

So what you are basically saying is that you COULD basically be non-kos, run down in Chardok, tag a mob without SoW and DA/feign "walk" your way up and be able to still get around 60 mobs atleast back in 1999 based on those mechanics? OR you could easily SoW/DA grab all the melee mobs and all the casters and since you said the z axis is overlapping in majority of Chardok, and yes this true, it is bigger in Chardok than Blackburrow, minus royals which no one pulls for AE, and still get a decent size pull based on the Z axis? There is atleast 20 mobs from Captain area to ent alone. You still have a flaw too, if all the casters stopped to cast, then you would lose them in the process because as you supposedly said, the lazy agro would kick in. Therefore you'd only get non-casters in a train which also didn't happen on live. You're spinning circles now.
Yeah you could single pull King like I described.

As for the rest, your saying that, I disagree. DA doesn't last long enough.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I played classic extensively and I don't remember lazy agro AT ALL.

In fact, it's pretty well seared into my mind that NOTHING will drop agro from you unless you zone. To read upthread that people avoided casters in kites because they would drop agro is plain wrong.

Take it from someone who spent lots of 1999-2003 running: agro had no distance checks.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Finag got around to reading the thread. Relieved to see no one else remember lazy-agro.

Lmao

This guy

[Glenzig]

Yeah I definitely remember zoning being the only way to deaggro a mob in classic. There was never any leash on cazic Thule server during kunark timeline.

[Jimjam]

I played classic extensively and I don't remember lazy agro AT ALL.

In fact, it's pretty well seared into my mind that NOTHING will drop agro from you unless you zone. To read upthread that people avoided casters in kites because they would drop agro is plain wrong.

Take it from someone who spent lots of 1999-2003 running: agro had no distance checks.

A couple of points. First, you never ran fast enough.

Second, the mob wouldn't 'drop aggro'. In Kunark, the mob simply stops chasing you if you manage to get ahead by a specific distance, but it doesn't forget. If you get close to the mob again, it will resume chasing you.

[Jimjam]

That said, I'm not sure if the mechanic was 'classic' in Kunark or added later.

I do know the mechanic was changed at some point post GoD. The change was if you ran far enough away from a mob it would forget about you completely. I remember as I was able to lose adds while pulling in Wall of Slaughter using my berserker through the combination of snare and sprint disciplines.

[Glenzig]

A couple of points. First, you never ran fast enough.

Second, the mob wouldn't 'drop aggro'. In Kunark, the mob simply stops chasing you if you manage to get ahead by a specific distance, but it doesn't forget. If you get close to the mob again, it will resume chasing you.

I honestly remember all the way up to at least Velious timeline that even with SoW, a mob would never deaggro due to any distance created between it and you in a zone. You could run a mob from one end of a zone to the other no matter the size of the zone and wait at the zoneline and it would still be running after you. I'm pretty sure that if lazy aggro existed in Kunark era I wouldn't have remembered to zone after getting in trouble with a pull on P99.

[Castigate]

I played classic extensively and I don't remember lazy agro AT ALL.


You must not have played a Bard, I definitely remember lazy agro. It combined with the rubber-banding made my single kiting mobs during kunark a really difficult thing. Well, keyboard turning and the tiny view area didn't help either.

[Vyal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wBYEGb37k0

None of the mobs are being tagged from across the zone and because of the z access they are actually all close by.

[Orruar]

I played classic extensively and I don't remember lazy agro AT ALL.

In fact, it's pretty well seared into my mind that NOTHING will drop agro from you unless you zone. To read upthread that people avoided casters in kites because they would drop agro is plain wrong.

Take it from someone who spent lots of 1999-2003 running: agro had no distance checks.

You're just wrong. Literally dozens of people here recall firsthand experience with lazy agro.

[Orruar]

Yeah I definitely remember zoning being the only way to deaggro a mob in classic. There was never any leash on cazic Thule server during kunark timeline.

There you have it. Glenzig says lazy agro never existed. Glenzig is wrong about pretty much everything he's ever said. Therefore lazy agro existed. QED

[JayN]

every server was a little different TBH, thats why trying to nail down exact classic is almost impossible

[Glenzig]

There you have it. Glenzig says lazy agro never existed. Glenzig is wrong about pretty much everything he's ever said. Therefore lazy agro existed. QED

That's actually probably the best extrapolation of evidence in this whole thread.

Also, why don't you call me anymore? Don't you still love me?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I also played on Cazic Thule and nothing ever dropped agro.


EVAR

[Tiggles]

Lazy agro existed for me as a Bard on SZ, You could out run mobs and they would path back but if you got back in close with them they could reagro across the zone.

I used to remember using this to train people at PON zone in.

[Nirgon]

I do remember if specs in oasis went back to island to reset and you got close again, they'd all just start coming if you hadn't zoned/camped/mem blurred.

Methinks that's because low hp specs would fire up their own version of gating back to their bind under certain conditions.

Not sure if they'd just stop chasing due to distance, but really strongly remember a spec dying surrounded by gate/invis bubbles graphic :). I think their behavior was to do this if they were X distance away from their spawn point and nothing else was on their threat list and not as some kind of flee mechanic. The kill being that someone zoned with specs after them, and one got finished off while the others recalled.

[Ikonoclastia]

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-8933.html

Read this and you'll also be convinced lazy aggro existed, not only in Kunark but also Velious.

Its inconceivable that someone would write a guide like this if it never existed. It will also impress upon you the importance of lazy aggro for pullers, and if you're an sk, bard, necro, or monk some of the tactics and skills that you're missing out on not having it on P1999.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Its inconceivable that someone would write a guide like this if it never existed

i think you just conceived it

[Ikonoclastia]

So you don't have to read the whole thing it basically goes like this:

Lazy Aggro

In Kunark and Velious, if you are beyond a certain distance from a mob, it will lose interest and no longer pursue you, though will still maintain you on the hate list with an increased aggro radius.


Bind Point Splitting

At the exact moment that a mob returns to bind point and is resetting it's aggro, it is unavailable for recieving a hate list. If you have a mob that is just getting to it's bind point and another still wandering back, you can stand up from FD at the exact right moment, and the wandering mob will reaggro but the one at bind point may not aggro. If not successful immediately, you may use this to increase the distance between the two mobs enough to use lazy aggro and aggro radius to tag or chain tag one.


Snare COH pulling

Should you have a mage with CoH (level 55 spell), you can have the monk pull a group and a ranger or druid act as snare. The monk pulls the group, the snarer snares one then is CoHd back to group clearing aggro. The mobs continues to pursue the monk and then FDs. When the mobs return, the snared mob slowly seperates from the group and can now be tagged safely. Can also be used with reverse pulling. Should a CoH not be available, you can have the snarer zone out or run outside of lazy aggro range.

Second problem is when lazy aggro comes into play... you can fail an FD, and be healed but the mob not aggro the healer. How is this possible? Well if the cleric is right at the edge of the mobs lazy aggro range, then the mob would consider the healer not worth pursuing... possible with very long range healing spells such as divine light and the mob is repathing all over the place. Now, if the healer reenters the lazy aggro range, then suddenly the mob *sees* the healer and suddenly goes after him, even though the cleric hasn't done a thing for quite a length of time. This is because he must have done enough healing to put him at the top of the hate list, but has just reentered the lazy aggro radius.

im not 100% sure that lazy aggro works on velious.

somone double check?


Aztarok Warthbringer

56 Monk


Yes. Lazy Aggro works in Velious.


Proof -- put on SoW. Aggro a mob slower than you in Eastern Wastes or Wakening Lands, then run until it's out of sight and sound. Stop, turn around and look. The mob will at some distance give up the pursuit. (I use this in WL all the time to dodge stuff like Holgreshes and Panthers)

[indiscriminate_hater]

op get a job

[Ikonoclastia]

op get a job
Paralegal, big part of my job is ... research :)

[Glenzig]

From the guide you posted:
"This should be required reading for any monk who desires to pull.



Regards,






Brother Daitan Niyan
Monk of Quellious
62nd Grandmaster of the Celestial Fists
The Rathe
Daitan "

Level 65 cap didn't happen until PoP.

[Glenzig]

Also the guide wasn't posted until May of 2001. That's nearly six months into Velious as starting point for the claim of lazy aggro. That doesn't prove that it was around in Kunark timeline.

[indiscriminate_hater]

damn icon you just got out-researched dog

[Silverain]

I seem to remember when Abscond/Evac spells were first put in, they did not cause you to load the zone, they just put you at the safe spot. This was allowing people to pull dragons across entire zones without worrying about anything going wrong (specifically remember Gore and DL), and so the spell was changed. I remember using Abscond on live and not loading at all, at first. But, memory and time, I can't seem to find definitive evidence for patch changes, but I'm fairly sure on it. Just my 2 cp on the distance/agro thing.

[Kekephee]

Also the guide wasn't posted until May of 2001. That's nearly six months into Velious as starting point for the claim of lazy aggro. That doesn't prove that it was around in Kunark timeline.

Was PoP out in 2001? It couldn't have been. I remember being in Nro on September 11th and some Canadian dude told everyone in my group to sit down and gave us a William Wallace speech about how our country was strong and we would get through this and he would be praying for us. Hahaha that guy was nuts.


ANYWAY WHAT"S THE DEAL WITH THIS LEVEL 62 GUY WHO EXISTED IN 2001???

[Bruno]

damn icon you just got out-researched dog

Made me lol.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Lets get this thread back on track instead of arguing about one tiny aspect of how the management might decide to solve this little issue.

From page 10:

Thread summary :
OP points out that the Chardok AE trend is definitely not something that occurred in the same way on Live. In fact, in instances where a zone has been "taken over" for overdriven powerlevving, the devs took steps to nerf the pl. (It being taken for granted that it it clearly not remotely in the spirit of the game to skip the 55+ xp-ing, and also monopolizes loot unique to the zone, e.g. chardok pipe etc etc)

Players with multiple 60-toons that would hate to actually have to level their alts and, you know, play the game, call the OP a player-hating pussy. (Not an altogether unexpected reaction)

Enlightened GM shows up and say, nuh-uh, it was totally like that in classic, you're imagining things, stop bothering the 1%ers.

Sideline viewers shake their heads....

Important question : Is what they are doing a mechanic exploit or not? (Spoiler, all the people that benefit from the farm say no. High quality, introspective, intellectually honest people here, I tell ya.)

[Bruno]

The guys post was in 2004 though not in 2001.

[Kekephee]

The guys post was in 2004 though not in 2001.

Time Travel mystery solved


Disappointing

[Ikonoclastia]

Also the guide wasn't posted until May of 2001. That's nearly six months into Velious as starting point for the claim of lazy aggro. That doesn't prove that it was around in Kunark timeline.
What happens is, probably, that you have three different radii on the monsters. You have the aggro radius, you have the "continue to follow to smash" radius and the "help help I am getting hurt" radius.

The last one of these seems to be too big...

Now lets say that the tank goes and pulls a few mobs. Those within aggro radius starts to follow him. Some other mobs were inside the "help help getting hurt" radius, and gets the puller on their hate list. Later, while fighting, or after fight, you heal the puller. This puts YOU on the hate list, and since the puller hasn't done any damage to it, you go to the top. This is why when such a mob gets near camp, it goes straight for the healer (or the bard).

As for the autoaggroing, I'm not quite sure how it works, but it might be that the spawning critter is within range of another that is aggro on you, but out of "follow and smash" radius, which would make the spawning critter go straight for you.

Yep, I've heard lots of tales of seemingly random aggro since the release of Kunark (and not just in the new lands).

Bards are talking about it everywhere, since their songs affect the whole party. Partly I believe this has to do with the fact that mobs can "forget" about you in Kunark, but I'm not sure.

Posted this already, if your not capable of keeping up its not my problem - posted 2000.

Link: http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=9847

[Ikonoclastia]

Another one from 2000 - http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168

Monsters in Kunark will also "give up" on trying to catch someone pretty easily, which can lead to problems.

Your puller, with SoW, goes out into the zone, tags a monster, and heads back to your camp. He outpaces the monster a little too much, though, and the monster heads back to his spawn point. No biggie - he pulls something else instead. Remember, though - he's *still* on that monster's aggro list! From that point on, every time you heal or buff the puller, you're putting *yourself* higher on that monster's aggro list - and since the monster has been "activated", so to speak, he's yelling for help around him, even though he's not fighting you.

So now you're at the top of this one monster's hate list, and he spreads his hate list around. If the puller comes back with anything that's been near him, they'll go STRAIGHT for you - they hate you more, after all.



So yeah, lets stop trying to pretend it didn't exist.

[Glenzig]

Was PoP out in 2001? It couldn't have been. I remember being in Nro on September 11th and some Canadian dude told everyone in my group to sit down and gave us a William Wallace speech about how our country was strong and we would get through this and he would be praying for us. Hahaha that guy was nuts.


ANYWAY WHAT"S THE DEAL WITH THIS LEVEL 62 GUY WHO EXISTED IN 2001???

Nah that's my bad. That post was from 2004.

[Glenzig]

Nice. So there is definitely some third party evidence about the lazy aggro. Do you think that will be good enough? Or do they need official patch notes or something?

[Champion_Standing]

Was PoP out in 2001? It couldn't have been. I remember being in Nro on September 11th and some Canadian dude told everyone in my group to sit down and gave us a William Wallace speech about how our country was strong and we would get through this and he would be praying for us. Hahaha that guy was nuts.


That guy sounds awesome, shoulda frapsed it.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

REPOST - TLDR for people that don't want to waste their time reading this shit -

Lets get this thread back on track instead of arguing about one tiny aspect of how the management might decide to solve this little issue.

From page 10:


Thread summary :
OP points out that the Chardok AE trend is definitely not something that occurred in the same way on Live. In fact, in instances where a zone has been "taken over" for overdriven powerlevving, the devs took steps to nerf the pl. (It being taken for granted that it it clearly not remotely in the spirit of the game to skip the 55+ xp-ing, and also monopolizes loot unique to the zone, e.g. chardok pipe etc etc)

Players with multiple 60-toons that would hate to actually have to level their alts and, you know, play the game, call the OP a player-hating pussy. (Not an altogether unexpected reaction)

Enlightened GM shows up and say, nuh-uh, it was totally like that in classic, you're imagining things, stop bothering the 1%ers.

Sideline viewers shake their heads....

Important question : Is what they are doing a mechanic exploit or not? (Spoiler, all the people that benefit from the farm say no. High quality, introspective, intellectually honest people here, I tell ya.)

[Bruno]

Let thread die imo. OP already stated bug report submitted and in fact does not care either way if it gets fixed or not.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

<<Lots of incoherent rambling because this fag ACTUALLY MADE A FORUMS ACCT because he was so terrified of having to actually play the game and just had to "jump in and end this nonsense.">>

When a thread is still doing that at page 18 I'm gonna keep it right on going /popcorn

[Bruno]

I would actually love to know if OP is in a guild so I can lol every time I see one of his guildies in Chardok.

[fishingme]

REPOST - TLDR for people that don't want to waste their time reading this shit -

Lets get this thread back on track instead of arguing about one tiny aspect of how the management might decide to solve this little issue.

From page 10:


Thread summary :
OP points out that the Chardok AE trend is definitely not something that occurred in the same way on Live. In fact, in instances where a zone has been "taken over" for overdriven powerlevving, the devs took steps to nerf the pl. (It being taken for granted that it it clearly not remotely in the spirit of the game to skip the 55+ xp-ing, and also monopolizes loot unique to the zone, e.g. chardok pipe etc etc)

Players with multiple 60-toons that would hate to actually have to level their alts and, you know, play the game, call the OP a player-hating pussy. (Not an altogether unexpected reaction)

Enlightened GM shows up and say, nuh-uh, it was totally like that in classic, you're imagining things, stop bothering the 1%ers.

Sideline viewers shake their heads....

Important question : Is what they are doing a mechanic exploit or not? (Spoiler, all the people that benefit from the farm say no. High quality, introspective, intellectually honest people here, I tell ya.)

Not classic, computer hardware back during live time wouldn't support that many mobs or aoe graphics. Yall remember that 5 minute zone time.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Yeah. But, hey, in all honesty... you don't think it's an exploit that isn't remotely in the spirit of the game? I think the real heart of the matter is that the GM's would love to shut it down, but know that a certain set of players would probably stop playing if suddenly they had to earn xp. Why they care so much about this set is beyond me. RMT?

[zanderklocke]

Yeah. But, hey, in all honesty... you don't think it's an exploit that isn't remotely in the spirit of the game? I think the real heart of the matter is that the GM's would love to shut it down, but know that a certain set of players would probably stop playing if suddenly they had to earn xp. Why they care so much about this set is beyond me. RMT?

I have never participated in Chardok AoE, so I have no skin in the game.

If the GMs wanted to shut it down, it would be shut down.

Chardok AoE exists on the server because it is possible with the current mechanics of the game. It does not break any rules as long as it is not interrupting a person/group trying to level/camp some of the mobs there.

The GMs/developers don't care about whether Sony would or would not have eliminated this from the game with patches because they didn't like how much experience players were getting. The GMs care about creating a classic environment, this includes the good and the bad mechanics that were in the game prior to them being patched out. If someone can prove this wasn't possible in classic, they should post in the bugs section with concrete evidence. Because something was not done on live in the classic time period is not evidence that it could not be done.

Debating the merits of whether something is in the spirit of the game or not holds no value, as the only thing that matters is whether or not something was or was not possible in terms of classic live mechanics. I've seen a lot of evidence posted in this thread, but this evidence does nothing if it is not posted in the bugs section to explain to the developers why something should or should not be possible.

Every player plays this game for different reasons, so as long as long as they are playing within the mechanics of the game and not disrupting another player's experience, there is no fowl play that is punishable. If a player was trying to group in Chardok and the AoE group kept interrupting them without some compromise, this would be grounds for a GM to intervene upon petition, but as I'm currently aware, this has not been a situation for anyone.

The original poster can attack Chardok AoE in two ways if he does not like it. He can either post bugs in the bugs section of the forum with his evidence, or he can try to group there and petition to GMs if the AoE group is not respecting his desire to group at a certain camp or compromise with him. If neither of these things have happened, this whole thread just seems like wasted space.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

If a player was trying to group in Chardok and the AoE group kept interrupting them without some compromise, this would be grounds for a GM to intervene upon petition, but as I'm currently aware, this has not been a situation for anyone.



This... is actually a good point. Unfortunately circular logic tho - There are no groups in Charkok because the AoE is there, and the AoE can operate because there are no groups. People don't consider it an option, not because its a "bad zone" but because it is known to be monopolized. When KC is jammed up groups would love to be able to go roll thru chardok but no one wants to get in a fight with obviously more powerful people.
Also, by your logic there is no such thing as a mechanic exploit, and I think people might disagree with that sentiment as well.

[thieros]

People don't consider it an option, not because its a "bad zone" but because it is known to be monopolized. When KC is jammed up groups would love to be able to go roll thru chardok but no one wants to get in a fight with obviously more powerful people.

all of this is false. have you ever grouped in chardok man? exp is garbage. Ive camped slave pits a number of times and its grueling, terrible exp with poor loot for the most part. would not recommend to a friend unless they needed chardok pipe

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Oh you are saying the ZEM is set low huh? wonder why that is.

[thieros]

cause classic...

[zanderklocke]

Also, by your logic there is no such thing as a mechanic exploit, and I think people might disagree with that sentiment as well.

I mentioned nothing about exploits in my post. Exploits are not allowed on the server.

Back to my original sentiment, if the GMs thought Chardok AoE was a mechanic exploit, they would shut it down and punish people for doing this. Since nothing has been officially stated by the GMs on this, it is evident that they do not consider this an exploit.

It is possible that they could change their opinion on something like this in the future, although doubtful, but currently, this is not an exploit.

[Lazie]

I'd love to see a monk do this.

Monks already do do it...

[Man0warr]

This... is actually a good point. Unfortunately circular logic tho - There are no groups in Charkok because the AoE is there, and the AoE can operate because there are no groups. People don't consider it an option, not because its a "bad zone" but because it is known to be monopolized. When KC is jammed up groups would love to be able to go roll thru chardok but no one wants to get in a fight with obviously more powerful people.
Also, by your logic there is no such thing as a mechanic exploit, and I think people might disagree with that sentiment as well.

No one groups there because the mobs suck to kill, the exp is low, the loot stinks, and CR is difficult. No one grouped there before Chardok AE began, except to get pipe for monk epic.

There is a reason Chardok was one of the first zone revamps in Velious, to fix all these issues (mostly the loot part).

[fishingme]

I have never participated in Chardok AoE, so I have no skin in the game.

If the GMs wanted to shut it down, it would be shut down.

Chardok AoE exists on the server because it is possible with the current mechanics of the game. It does not break any rules as long as it is not interrupting a person/group trying to level/camp some of the mobs there.

The GMs/developers don't care about whether Sony would or would not have eliminated this from the game with patches because they didn't like how much experience players were getting. The GMs care about creating a classic environment, this includes the good and the bad mechanics that were in the game prior to them being patched out. If someone can prove this wasn't possible in classic, they should post in the bugs section with concrete evidence. Because something was not done on live in the classic time period is not evidence that it could not be done.

Debating the merits of whether something is in the spirit of the game or not holds no value, as the only thing that matters is whether or not something was or was not possible in terms of classic live mechanics. I've seen a lot of evidence posted in this thread, but this evidence does nothing if it is not posted in the bugs section to explain to the developers why something should or should not be possible.

Every player plays this game for different reasons, so as long as long as they are playing within the mechanics of the game and not disrupting another player's experience, there is no fowl play that is punishable. If a player was trying to group in Chardok and the AoE group kept interrupting them without some compromise, this would be grounds for a GM to intervene upon petition, but as I'm currently aware, this has not been a situation for anyone.

The original poster can attack Chardok AoE in two ways if he does not like it. He can either post bugs in the bugs section of the forum with his evidence, or he can try to group there and petition to GMs if the AoE group is not respecting his desire to group at a certain camp or compromise with him. If neither of these things have happened, this whole thread just seems like wasted space.

Pretty easy to prove actually, one is that mobs wouldn't chase you after a certain distance past their spawn point. Two, there used to be groups in chardok, three, IIRC servers were hosted on at max a t1 connection while all of us were limited to dial up or DSL which maxxes at 70kb/s and like a 600 MHz CPU with 512mb ram and a 8-32mb videocard

[Tewaz]

[QUOTE=There is a reason Chardok was one of the first zone revamps in Velious, to fix all these issues (mostly the loot part).[/QUOTE]

No one would be there anyways.

[Dr3am]

"Two, there used to be groups in chardok"

Ummm I've been playing a long ass time and there has never been a time that Chardok was camped for regular groupage. Occassional groups to camp Monk pipes or for Royals, but never exp groups.

[zanderklocke]

Pretty easy to prove actually, one is that mobs wouldn't chase you after a certain distance past their spawn point.

Post in bugs forum and compile the evidence from this thread.

Two, there used to be groups in chardok.

This can still happen and people can petition the GMs if the AoE groups will not let people group there. No one is really trying this. Who cares if the AoE players get upset? Everyone has to abide by the Play Nice Policy.

three, IIRC servers were hosted on at max a t1 connection while all of us were limited to dial up or DSL which maxxes at 70kb/s and like a 600 MHz CPU with 512mb ram and a 8-32mb videocard.

I don't even know how to tackle this one. This is more of a matter of debate of whether or not we should force technology restrictions to emulate technology of 15 years ago. Some individuals connected on 56k, others DL, and some on cable modem. I had cable modem during Kunark. I don't know enough about internet connections to understand if a T1 server could allow for AoE of a ton of mobs, so this I can't answer on.

[Tewaz]

Please start enforcing technology limitations.

Classic.

[Lazie]

Lol. Yeah 2004 and they're still doing partial aoe's. Its a classic zone and no changes were made to Chardok after the initial upgrade.

What's not classic is the crap in the first vid.

Um 2003 was after the Chardok revamp.

[zanderklocke]

No one groups there because the mobs suck to kill, the exp is low, the loot stinks, and CR is difficult. No one grouped there before Chardok AE began, except to get pipe for monk epic.



Although not common, if a group did want to group here, they should be allowed to, and the AoE group has no right to stop them and must compromise since they are monopolizing the zone. However, I don't see groups really wanting to group here, but this is probably the one way Chardok AoE could be shut down for a short time. I just don't see the anti-Chardok AoE people caring enough to actively group in Chardok though.

However, whether or not a group does want to experience here has nothing to do with whether Chardok AoE should be possible,allowed on the server, or even be considered an exploit.

[Juevento]

Something to think about... all you Chardok AoE defenders are on the same side of the issue as Lazie. Not sure if that's a great position to be in.

[Lazie]

Something to think about... all you Chardok AoE defenders are on the same side of the issue as Lazie. Not sure if that's a great position to be in.

Most people are usually on my side of the argument. It is usually people like you who can't see reason that usually aren't.

[Vyal]

I posted a video of it there is no exploit, no cheating, no broken game mechanics..

The server is flawless.

[Juevento]

Most people are usually on my side of the argument. It is usually people like you who can't see reason that usually aren't.

http://i.imgur.com/vQ9Fs.jpg

[Brynnag]

im going to start doing xp in chardok im a rogue who wants in?

[thieros]

Something to think about... all you Chardok AoE defenders are on the same side of the issue as Lazie. Not sure if that's a great position to be in.

oh god....sweet jeebus what have i done

[Lazie]

http://i.imgur.com/vQ9Fs.jpg

It entertains me that the site of my name on the forums works you up in a froth. ;)

[Lazie]

oh god....sweet jeebus what have i done

You went against the Mighty Chest's beliefs and are on the side of someone from TMO!

[thieros]

You went against the Mighty Chest's beliefs and are on the side of someone from TMO!

http://i.imgur.com/aayIjLT.gif

[zanderklocke]

I posted a video of it there is no exploit, no cheating, no broken game mechanics..

The server is flawless.

Well, the original poster believes there are broken mechanics with "lazy aggro", but instead of actually posting anything to the bug forums, he just keeps posting it here, which is a waste of time...unless the whole point is to troll pro-Chardok AoE people.

[Lazie]

http://i.imgur.com/aayIjLT.gif

HAHA

[Man0warr]

Although not common, if a group did want to group here, they should be allowed to, and the AoE group has no right to stop them and must compromise since they are monopolizing the zone. However, I don't see groups really wanting to group here, but this is probably the one way Chardok AoE could be shut down for a short time. I just don't see the anti-Chardok AoE people caring enough to actively group in Chardok though.


I agree, if people want go down and camp pipe instead of pay for it the AOE'ers have no right to stop them.

There are a few people that do Chardok that will bitch about it but those people are idiots.

[Kekephee]

http://i.imgur.com/aayIjLT.gif

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/46287635.jpg

[Ikonoclastia]

Very classic. Played a bard, and got dragged around aoe slowing shit and triple ticking mana pulse during downtime everywhere from charasis to chardok. Whether you like it or not, AOE groups were a thing, and it's not a bug.
We did aoe's as well. If you have at a look at the evidence I posted its conclusive that mobs didn't chase you very far at all. You thought they did because as you're moving, the mobs are also moving.

If your moving at normal run speed and the mobs moving at 1.4 runspeed then you'll never move out of the mobs lazy aggro range.

If you're moving at 1.7 run speed and a mobs moving at 1.4 runspeed then the distance it takes you to move out of the mobs lazy aggro range is quite large.

So yeah you could AoE in Chardok but the problem was your HP limited how many mobs you could reasonably pull since you could not run outside of lazy aggro range without losing mobs, and to stay inside lazy aggro range meant getting hit.

If you were trying to pull 180 mobs that would mean occasionally you would get hit and with 50 mobs hitting for 100 per hit (excluding max hits, doubles getting rooted, dotted, blinded, feared and nuked) your looking at 5000 damage per tick, 100 mobs 10,000 and 150 mobs 15000.

The most I have found while researching historical in-era was people bragging they were doing up to 40 mobs.

If you have a look at the the links I posted you'll see what I'm saying is not just based on my personal opinion and questionable memory.

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Yeah Uth, you should look back at the 2001 pulling guide stuff he linked. The reason people didn't do massive AOE back then wasn't just cos they didn't know how to play....

[Taminy]

EQ isn't wow. Mobs could, would, and probably still do follow you from one end of the zone to the other, regardless of the distance. An inaccurate memory does not constitute proof.

I definitely remember outrunning mob aggro on CT in outdoor zones. If you went back close to them they would reaggro/rechase and it's certainly not inaccurate memory.

I did it at least once with one of the giants at the fort in DL. Walked back there and he started chasing me again. This was during Kunark era FWIW. I remember having at least one discussion about lazy aggro with both guildies and strangers too.

How well this applies to indoor zones like Chardok :confused:

[Tewaz]

Keep arguing OP, you have almost won FQ.

[Xavruul]

haha

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

He did finally manage to pull Uthgard to the ZL, so he kinda is.

[Xavruul]

Wha

[Tasslehofp99]

Seriously mobs did stop chasing you at a certain distance.


I know this because as a druid I frequently used snare+sow to just outrun mobs I didn't want to kill in LOIO or south Karana. After you made it a certain distance away mobs WOULD STOP CHASING YOU atleast until you got close enough again for them to begin persuit.

Again, I don't think chardok is big enough for this nerf to change anything about chardok AOE. If you want classic chardok AOE groups enchanters PBAOE stuns need to be adjusted. These stuns should be getting resisted a lot more than they currently do. Chardok aoe groups on live often required 5 to 6 enchanters just to kill half the mobs your average p99 ae group pulls.

[Gaffin 7.0]

lol tassle a idiot, mobs have never leashed in eq ever

[Tasslehofp99]

Mobs deffinetly stopped chasing you after a certain distance there isn't even a question of whether pr not that's true. I guess the main question is when was it implemented?


I deffinetly remembers using it to escape mobs on live in kunark to velious era.

[Gaffin 7.0]

got prof? just like the rogue hide nerf there is none. just what we need more tmo with false information

[Tasslehofp99]

Was great for zones like west wastes when you got adds you couldn't handle.


I know for a fact that cobalt scar wasn't big enough to do it in as well. Spent a lot of time hunting there and even if you snared a mob at skyshrine end and ran with sow to SG you couldn't get enough distance for the mob to drop. Kind of a minor mechanic though, suprised the OP really thinks it's implementation would affect much.

[Tasslehofp99]

got prof? just like the rogue hide nerf there is none. just what we need more tmo with false information


I don't care enough to go looking for it but incase you missed it the OP provided a decent amount of evidence that it was in game at some point.

[Shinko]

hey you know what else is not classic,

this fucking server

QQ

[Tameth]

holy shit I keep laughing at your avatar gif, Xavruul

[Ikonoclastia]

Was great for zones like west wastes when you got adds you couldn't handle.


I know for a fact that cobalt scar wasn't big enough to do it in as well. Spent a lot of time hunting there and even if you snared a mob at skyshrine end and ran with sow to SG you couldn't get enough distance for the mob to drop. Kind of a minor mechanic though, suprised the OP really thinks it's implementation would affect much.
The evidence I provided suggested there were different lazy aggro ranges depending on zone. One poster suggested that lazy aggro range was about visual range in LOIO. Another suggested it was about visual range in WW. Another stated it was "a couple of dozen feet out of casting range" in Chardok. Given that npc's didn't have max casting ranges

------------------------------
June 12, 2002
------------------------------

** NPC Spell Caster Changes **

- NPCs are now bound by spell casting distance rules, meaning that an
NPC's spell will no longer connect from halfway across the zone

then that would mean "a couple of dozen feet out of (PC) casting range".

So I do believe that it would make a significant difference to being able to train almost the whole of Chardok into your AoE if it was changed to be classic lazy aggro.

[azxten]

+1 mobs stopped chasing if you got a certain distance away

I don't know if this was implemented much later or what but it definitely happened. I have many memories of this in OT trying to pull back to ramp group and mobs would disengage.

[bigshowtime]

+1 mobs stopped chasing if you got a certain distance away

I don't know if this was implemented much later or what but it definitely happened. I have many memories of this in OT trying to pull back to ramp group and mobs would disengage.


Mobs never leashed u bluebie maggots

I trained on eq by sending a pet in and gating to a zone line