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Valdarious
07-29-2014, 07:46 AM
Not a huge issue but just mostly curious. I re-read some rules on camping thing in the new guide section that was recently updated and had a question.
If I am camping something that has two spawns does that constitute "a camp" if they are not viewable by each other?
Say for instance the Rabid Wolves in Qeynos Hills. I personally feel that if you can't secure both then it is almost not worth it but I feel most people think that if you are not sitting in front of the spawn they can just walk up and take it. They are a 6min spawn and if you time it right, you can kill one, immediately go to the other one and it will spawn once you get there. You then run back over to the other spawn and wait for the timer.
Would this constitute "a camp" or do the majority of you think it is actually two camps?

-Catherin-
07-29-2014, 07:54 AM
if the two mobs are in different rooms then it is a different camp if someone wants to really press the issue

stakha
07-29-2014, 10:37 AM
I think it's reasonable to consider the two spawns one camp in this case. I would respect someone else doing the two, that is.

Clark
07-29-2014, 10:40 AM
if the two mobs are in different rooms then it is a different camp if someone wants to really press the issue

Baler
07-29-2014, 10:44 AM
Also if the spawns are in any great distance of travel or can't be seen in a way other then looking around a direct corner adjacent to the camper.
So if someone comes in and sits in a area or room you were running to to kill things,. technically they just took over that camp because you were not there to claim it.

arsenalpow
07-29-2014, 10:55 AM
Also if the spawns are in any great distance of travel or can't be seen in a way other then looking around a direct corner adjacent to the camper.
So if someone comes in and sits in a area or room you were running to to kill things,. technically they just took over that camp because you were not there to claim it.

Actually it doesn't work like that. If someone is holding down two camps and another party wants to press the issue the person holding two camps can decide which one he'd like to keep. The new party can't just waltz in, see no one at a camp and claim ownership if the original party is still in the vicinity.

Use some common courtesy, CC, let the original party choose his one camp and then move into the vacated camp. Shits not hard.

Daywolf
07-29-2014, 10:57 AM
Bit of a run? Like outdoor area further than the awesomness of drui tracking? Prolly contestable if someone plops their butt ontop of the spawn loc. i.e. two camps. I think distance is more the factor over spawn timers.

Baler
07-29-2014, 10:58 AM
If someone is holding down two camps and another party wants to press the issue the person holding two camps can decide which one he'd like to keep.

So if someone comes in and sees no one killing the spawns and no one in the immediate area,. how are they supposed to know someone is semi-camping that spawn?
What is to stop someone a few minutes later from coming up and claiming it was theirs?

arsenalpow
07-29-2014, 11:16 AM
When you show up in a zone do a camp check, do a /w to have a record of who was in zone when you arrived. Try to communicate your intentions best you can. Just don't show up and take over a camp, that's how fights happen.

Swish
07-29-2014, 11:40 AM
Not a huge issue but just mostly curious. I re-read some rules on camping thing in the new guide section that was recently updated and had a question.
If I am camping something that has two spawns does that constitute "a camp" if they are not viewable by each other?
Say for instance the Rabid Wolves in Qeynos Hills. I personally feel that if you can't secure both then it is almost not worth it but I feel most people think that if you are not sitting in front of the spawn they can just walk up and take it. They are a 6min spawn and if you time it right, you can kill one, immediately go to the other one and it will spawn once you get there. You then run back over to the other spawn and wait for the timer.
Would this constitute "a camp" or do the majority of you think it is actually two camps?

Someone was camping supplier and another mob in Lower Guk yesterday (not assassin lol). On a camp check you'd be entitled to go to the one he's not parked in and claim it.

Pixel greed and TunnelQuest corrupt the mind :p

Thulack
07-29-2014, 11:51 AM
So if someone comes in and sees no one killing the spawns and no one in the immediate area,. how are they supposed to know someone is semi-camping that spawn?
What is to stop someone a few minutes later from coming up and claiming it was theirs?

called asking for a camp check in ooc

Valdarious
07-29-2014, 12:14 PM
I will always ask for a CC for this particular instance unless I see the dogs walking around loose. If they are out just walking around that means no one was there. Since this is a lower level camped item, I think some of the newer people don't know about asking for CC.
I do it mostly because it is something I can do when the wife asks me to do something around the house but I can still make the timers on the two. Normal game time, I am off doing other things with my normal toons.
So if someone comes in and sees no one killing the spawns and no one in the immediate area,. how are they supposed to know someone is semi-camping that spawn?
What is to stop someone a few minutes later from coming up and claiming it was theirs?
For this purpose the spawns will not be there since I have already killed it. It is a static spawn point on a 6 minute timer so the dogs will not be there for more than about 5 seconds. You can only sit in one spot though so the other spot might not look like it is camped until I come running up right when it spawns.

fastboy21
07-29-2014, 12:34 PM
I think it's reasonable to consider the two spawns one camp in this case. I would respect someone else doing the two, that is.

reasonable doesn't matter. the server has rules that take opinion out of the response the OP is looking for. it is "reasonable" both ways, but the server rule is pretty clear imo that its two camps. it would have to be given a specific exemption from the the GMs to not be.

Valdarious
07-29-2014, 12:39 PM
That is the reason why I was asking fastboy, thanks for inputting. Just trying to figure out if this is what people feel in this case, whether it would considered 1 or 2 camps.

fastboy21
07-29-2014, 12:42 PM
Someone was camping supplier and another mob in Lower Guk yesterday (not assassin lol). On a camp check you'd be entitled to go to the one he's not parked in and claim it.

Pixel greed and TunnelQuest corrupt the mind :p

i think you technically have to let them choose which one they want. if they are camping ghoul lord and supplier, for example...when you go plop down at the ghoul lord spawn. in this case, the original player camping the two camps would get to pick which one he wants and you can have the other one.

the thing is that, frequently, if playerA forces playerB to pick then playerA will always pick the mob he knows playerB is after...knowing that he prob has no interest in the other. this essentially forces playerB to leave and come back later, or to sit there and do very little (welcome to classic EQ).

fastboy21
07-29-2014, 12:48 PM
That is the reason why I was asking fastboy, thanks for inputting. Just trying to figure out if this is what people feel in this case, whether it would considered 1 or 2 camps.

the only reason it wouldn't be two camps that I can think of according to the rules is if the mobs were in an outdoor zone and very close together.

the example I'm thinking of is the goblin gazhughi ring: there are a number of PH spots on like 30 sec timers. the two that are literally 15 feet apart and not separated by any terrain I would consider a single camp. the ones that a couple of hundred feet away from there are separated by the terrain (ruins, trees, etc.) would be a different camp.

they would have to be very much right next to each other in an outdoor zone from my reading of the rules. definitely in dungeons two different mobs in the same room are one camp, two different rooms are two camps.

loramin
07-29-2014, 12:59 PM
What everyone else has been saying is true, except for one thing: while the polite thing is always to do a camp check before you kill something, honestly that's not going to happen in lowbie outdoor zones (or really any outdoor zone unless we're talking something like the Ancient Cyclops). If a level 10 sees a rabid animal with no one killing it (or running to kill it) they're just going to kill it themself, they're not going to call a camp check first.

I'd recommend worrying less about locking other people out of mobs you can't even see and more just on killing what you can see.

Swish
07-29-2014, 01:07 PM
i think you technically have to let them choose which one they want. if they are camping ghoul lord and supplier, for example...when you go plop down at the ghoul lord spawn. in this case, the original player camping the two camps would get to pick which one he wants and you can have the other one.

the thing is that, frequently, if playerA forces playerB to pick then playerA will always pick the mob he knows playerB is after...knowing that he prob has no interest in the other. this essentially forces playerB to leave and come back later, or to sit there and do very little (welcome to classic EQ).

I dunno, I've seen people just set up in an empty room and await the next mob to spawn. If you're not in there you're not camping it etc.

stakha
07-29-2014, 06:05 PM
the only reason it wouldn't be two camps that I can think of according to the rules is if the mobs were in an outdoor zone and very close together.

the example I'm thinking of is the goblin gazhughi ring: there are a number of PH spots on like 30 sec timers. the two that are literally 15 feet apart and not separated by any terrain I would consider a single camp. the ones that a couple of hundred feet away from there are separated by the terrain (ruins, trees, etc.) would be a different camp.

they would have to be very much right next to each other in an outdoor zone from my reading of the rules. definitely in dungeons two different mobs in the same room are one camp, two different rooms are two camps.

The camp he is referring to is not separated by much more than the gobo ring camp.

stakha
07-29-2014, 06:07 PM
reasonable doesn't matter.

This is a horrible thing to say.

Derubael
07-29-2014, 07:42 PM
To answer the OP's question, that would generally be considered two camps but keep in mind, the server staff doesn't really recognize 'camps' as such, though we do realize they exist and often try to let players figure out their own camps. So if you come across a player who doesn't mind you holding two 'camps' as one, that's fine with us. Or if a certain spot is universally accepted to be a 'camp', we are usually going to follow that guideline.

We allow the camp rules here to be pretty flexible so that players can work with each other when issues come up. Everything that Chest (arsenalpow) has said in this thread is accurate and helpful, so I'd go back and re-read his posts if you haven't already! The rules are quite simple and don't leave a ton of room for lawyering and BS. We tend to lean towards rules that favor the person already camping a spawn, as opposed to allowing a bunch of loopholes for rules lawyers to come and steal camps (which was happening with the old rule set and was a particular pet peeve of mine).

With these new rules I think things are running much more smoothly out in the world of Norrath.


the thing is that, frequently, if playerA forces playerB to pick then playerA will always pick the mob he knows playerB is after...knowing that he prob has no interest in the other. this essentially forces playerB to leave and come back later, or to sit there and do very little (welcome to classic EQ).

This drives me nuts, and I've been trying to find a way around it but there really isn't one without getting needlessly complicated. For now "shits classic" is my excuse for leaving it that way =P

webrunner5
07-29-2014, 09:28 PM
Rabid Wolves spawn in a outdoor zone. But it spawns in a pretty big area in that zone. I for one would not think it is a camp. Sort of like saying all the Gnolls in the that same zone are a camp. Sort of are, but aren't.

I guess what I am saying is some camps are camps and others are just mobs running around. I am afraid in your example, to me, they are just mobs running around in a zone. :D Not probably what you want to hear but with the Gnoll Fang thingy that zone area is pretty much a goofy encounter.

Valdarious
07-30-2014, 07:03 AM
Thanks for chiming in Derubael. I guess the biggest question I had in this instance was what the general consensus thought about those spawns since they are in an open area but are for the same quest. I will treat it as such from now on.

stakha
07-30-2014, 10:58 AM
Rabid Wolves spawn in a outdoor zone. But it spawns in a pretty big area in that zone. I for one would not think it is a camp. Sort of like saying all the Gnolls in the that same zone are a camp. Sort of are, but aren't.

I guess what I am saying is some camps are camps and others are just mobs running around. I am afraid in your example, to me, they are just mobs running around in a zone. :D Not probably what you want to hear but with the Gnoll Fang thingy that zone area is pretty much a goofy encounter.

It spawn in two particular locations, but then immediately wanders.

Baler
07-31-2014, 10:06 AM
I was just approached by a player who claimed he just went to sell items.
I came into the zone , went to the spawn I wanted to camp and no one was here. I typed /who to see who was in the zone and saw there was 2 other people. So I asked in /ooc if anyone was camping this particular spawn and no one responded. After a little while I setup camp at the spawn.
45 minutes later this player runs into my camp and claims it was his and that he was just selling and went to the bathroom. Then proceeds to tell me to bring a GM into the mix because he thought he deserved the spawn.
I politely told him I did a zone check with /who and /ooc aswell as a short wait before I began killing the spawn. The player says "bull" and says "I don't want to argue" then runs away.

so lets say this player is telling the truth. 45 minutes later, Is going to sell or going to the bathroom (after that period of time) still considered camping the spawn? Specifically if they leave the zone and or log out during this time?

Erati
07-31-2014, 10:08 AM
The player says "bull" and says "I don't want to argue" then runs away.

thatsclassic.jpg

Daywolf
07-31-2014, 10:25 AM
@ Baler. Camp needs to be broken. Other than that, CC is more a courtasy, not a tool to grab someones camp, they being there or not. A broken camp is more the defining factor. Fully spawned? up for grabs... if someone not plopped down there.

Baler
07-31-2014, 10:36 AM
The camp was fully spawned when I showed up and no one was in the area around it. I ran around it looking for anyone. as I also said I even checked /who to see who was in the zone so I'd know if they were legitimately somehow camping it. So I wasn't using CC as a tool to grab a camp, I was being polite.

So if a camp is broken and no one else is in the zone then that spawn is still considered camped?

Daywolf
07-31-2014, 11:01 AM
Unless they changed camp rules, unbroken and no one around = uncamped. An actual camp of course, say like trainer hill in CB as an example. Open wilderness with wandering mobs can be iffy some times.

talian21
07-31-2014, 11:06 AM
My rule of thumb is that if they guy returns before respawn, I generally hand the camp back. 45 minutes? nah, at that point its yers to give back or keep. There are legitimate reasons to afk/leave a camp (bathroom/selloff) but ya gotta be back before respawn, imo.

Valdarious
07-31-2014, 12:19 PM
I feel 45 minutes is way to long to own a camp. Sounds like he just wanted to camp from you.