HELP ME ROGEAN!!

[Bardalicious]

It's been four months since I put in a petition for assistance with account management for two of my main accounts here at P99 and R99. I pleaded with the GM's and Rogean to help me change passwords on two accounts that I didn't have eqemu info for anymore.

About a month ago, the person that had eqemu access was able to reset the passwords on those two accounts because of the changes to the account management system, being able to SMS message to reset account passwords. Previously, there was no way for eqemu account owners to touch loginserver accounts without knowing the passwords. Not any more!

That person, Pan on the forums, aka Cloki in-game and guild leader of OMNI on Project 1999, took over both accounts and started playing one of them without thinking twice about whom they belonged to. Since then, he's offered to let me have my bard back, but has demanded compensation for his time put into my cleric on Project 1999.

I'm fine with that and think it's fair to offer the guy some plat for what he's put into my toon. But now this all comes down to Rogean answering his PMs and helping with the petition thread.

Normally I wouldn't bring something like this to the forums, and many of you may think it detrimental to my cause, but put yourself into my place for a second: you played on these two accounts since the server opened (roughly 5 years) and because of the introduction of the SMS password reset system, those two accounts which were previously secure, are now taken from you and someone else is actively playing YOUR characters while your cries for help remain unanswered.

TLDR - HELP ME ROGEAN!!!

[Glenzig]

Isn't there a post somewhere about not giving out your account info to people?

[Bardalicious]

He had eqemu account access because I sold a different login server account attached to it for plat a year or so ago. He did not have login server account info for the other two accounts, which is quite different.

It may seem illogical to play login server accounts attached to an eqemu account you don't own any more, but up until this SMS system was introduced, those accounts were entirely safe because they couldn't be deleted nor have their passwords changed without already knowing the passwords.

[Glenzig]

How did he gain access to the 2 accounts in question?

[Tecmos Deception]

How did he gain access to the 2 accounts in question?

:rolleyes:

[Bardalicious]

Rogean introduced some new account management services here at p99, which seems silly in it of itself being that eqemu and p99 are supposed to be separate entities.

You can attach login server accounts to your forum account, you can link eqemu accounts, and more importantly, you can attach your cell phone to your eqemu account through project1999, which allows you to reset ALL login server accounts attached to an eqemu account without knowing the passwords apparently.

[Darkyle]

I've had a petition in with mine for a long time now too, you're basically F*cked from my understanding... but was kinda dumb to sell an emu that has accounts you play on, regardless of the fact there was no SMS back then.

[Bardalicious]

but was kinda dumb to sell an emu that has accounts you play on, regardless of the fact there was no SMS back then.

The only side effect at the time of the sale was that I couldn't change my passwords to the accounts, which I was fine with. Other than that, the accounts were for all intents and purposes "safe". It'd be pretty sad to punish someone by taking away two accounts they've worked on for five years because of a sudden change in account management imo...

Also, as per Rogean himself:

Similarly how it used to be treated by Sony, account trading/selling for virtual currency/items is no longer allowed. While we cannot stop the regular account sharing between family and friends, the original owner of an account will always be considered the owner of the account.

So there is that...

[Glenzig]

Oh ok. So because he had access to the account you sold him, he gained access to the other 2 accounts and locked you out? Bummer. Don't know if you'll get any CSR help on that though. All that stuff is at your own risk if I recall correctly. Sorry dude.

[heartbrand]

Is this skelly?

[Bardalicious]

Is this skelly?

Me? Never heard that name before, sorry.

[getsome]

.

[heartbrand]

Me? Never heard that name before, sorry.

Who is the guild leader who did this?

[Bardalicious]

Sounds like that guild leader is a dick for hijacking your shit and holding it for ransom because of a loophole. Amazing how leaders who people put their faith and trust in, can turn out to be slimy fucks.

Yeah.. I wasn't terribly happy that the guy is trying to extort money out of me by holding my accounts hostage.. He even alluded to RMTing to get them back from him. The sad thing is that the GMs/Rogean will likely not help me and the guy will get two free accounts.

[Whirled]

Sounds like that guild leader is a dick for hijacking your shit and holding it for ransom because of a loophole. Amazing how leaders who people put their faith and trust in, can turn out to be slimy fucks.

Does Obama care come with a pixel_lust_removal_drug ?

<= On a similar note: 51 warrior looking for a guild :D

[Bardalicious]

Who is the guild leader who did this?

I'm trying not to drag his name through the mud at the moment, until I see if the GMS will give assistance and/or whether he works with me to figure something out..

It's a guild leader on blue though.

[khanable]

name and shame!

[Musetii]

I'm trying not to drag his name through the mud at the moment, until I see if the GMS will give assistance and/or whether he works with me to figure something out..

It's a guild leader on blue though.

He tried to extort you and you're going to brush that off? Damn, must be nice to throw away your time like that. GMs aren't going to do shit for you...but then again you're a Blue member.

[Bardalicious]

He tried to extort you and you're going to brush that off? Damn, must be nice to throw away your time like that. GMs aren't going to do shit for you...but then again you're a Blue member.

I'm not brushing it off, but so long as he keeps in contact with me via PMs and attempts to figure something out, I'm not gonna name and shame him. Being extorted and getting the accounts back is better than being sent back to ground fucking zero on these servers.

I'm an extremely casual player and don't have the time to re-level toons on both red and blue to 50+ ... I've got a pit in my stomach over the thought of losing all of my work, so believe me, I've got no love for the guy that stole my shit and is trying to profit off it...

[Bardalicious]

What upsets me the most about all of this is that the extent of my playtime on the cleric I lost to him on p99 was spent running around to different levelling hotspots to give people free 90% rezzes and buffs. Karma definitely didn't work in my favor. :(

[Darkyle]

The only side effect at the time of the sale was that I couldn't change my passwords to the accounts, which I was fine with. Other than that, the accounts were for all intents and purposes "safe". It'd be pretty sad to punish someone by taking away two accounts they've worked on for five years because of a sudden change in account management imo...

Also, as per Rogean himself:



So there is that...

Everything you said makes sense, I personally still wouldn't have sold the EMU to have the ability to change my passwords when I please. However shit happens, just brings it back to the fact accounts shouldn't have been allowed to be traded since day 1.

[Nirgon]

Is this related to that thing that Derubael linked in red regarding account recovery?

[Tiggles]

name and shame!

[Bardalicious]

Is this related to that thing that Derubael linked in red regarding account recovery?

What did he link? I must have missed it.

Also, an excerpt from PM from the guy trying to proposition me to RMT him the accounts:

...I'd even go so far as to advocate name swaps if they'd do it so you could keep the name. Might take me a couple of weeks to get the cleric to 49, but... I'd offer straight up cash (dun know how much it costs to PL a cleric)...

[Darkyle]

^ I believe you are taking out of context from that quote... looks like he is saying cash as in cold hard plats for PLing

[Swish]

I'd name and shame, do it for great justice (and forum entertainment) ;)

[GnashingOfTeeth]

http://media.giphy.com/media/bZCdWtwbcXUcM/giphy.gif

[Bardalicious]

^ I believe you are taking out of context from that quote... looks like he is saying cash as in cold hard plats for PLing

... I'd offer straight up cash (dun know how much it costs to PL a cleric) but I don't know if that would be considered buying an account...that's on an emu I have? ...

That's the rest of the quote. Sounds like cash as in RL money to me.

Could be wrong tho I guess. Either way, he's being pretty damn slimy about the whole thing.

[GnashingOfTeeth]

http://media.giphy.com/media/zA8YZufPBK46Y/giphy.gif

[Bardalicious]

I'd name and shame, do it for great justice (and forum entertainment) ;)

Sure, no problem. I'll name and shame if someone is offering me help in recovering what I lost. You can be damn sure the guy won't work with me afterwords.

[Ket]

Name and shame ...Name and shame ...Name and shame ...Name and shame ...

-Ket

[Pan]

I'll name myself. I'm Cloki - guilidleader of Omni (official title: Lead Hippie and/or Lesser Asshole).

I purchased an emu (more than a year ago when it was still allowed) for plat that had a L51 firepot necro attached. I made sure I purchased the emu. This was not purchased from Bardalicious/Drowed/Ruinous (why so many handles in play here)? The account had changed hands several times.

Then, when it was possible, I associated the emu with my SMS (as instructed).

Then, because it was MY emu, I reset all the passwords (because I didn't want anything hinky going on with MK account). I discovered a bard on red and a L49 cleric on this emu. I epiced and leveled and purpled the cleric - because I was the only one with access to it.

When this person cast a broad net in this thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159830 - naming six toons that are NOT on this emu, I feel like this is what's going on (from this link) in which Sirken said:

second of all, id bet body parts that 90% of these people are just trying to steal back an acct they sold in the past. stay classy

Look at his initial post on server forum - doesn't mention Ruinous or Bardalicious (other two toons in question) - but looks like he's casting a broad net saying: here's a bunch of accounts I used to have, I regret selling them all and now want them back, let's see how many i can get...just fishing.

Pandora's box, I think - and smells rotten.

I have the sense that the seller (the account had changed hands multiple times - have the PMs from the owner who sold it to me archived and can post if they become relevant) is also gonna push to have the Necro returned - says I paid too little for it (quoting the wrong price, btw) and the "my necro thing" and regrets selling, etc. And this is going on - in one of the last PMs he asked me to just sell the emu back to him - which is not within the rules.

The way it stands from my point of view, I'm being pretty magnanimous offering to have the bard split off and wanting him/her to honor the offer on the cleric (xxxxxxxx) sent at 4:42pm MDT: "I'll gladly compensate you for the epic and other work put into him. I've got about 200k in assets left on blue, which includes a fungi tunic." for the work on the cleric - and I'd give up the cleric, then. But I think going back on the offer is taking place b/c this person thinks he/she has leverage right now.

But from my point of view, when you sell an account, complete with the emu credentials, you give up all rights to the account, I'd think. I won't even let people tag Omni if they do not have the ability to change their passswords b/c I don't want to gear them only to have their 'toons and the work poof.

Right now, there are several offers on the table to the original poster in this thread - many of which are dependent on the Server Staff. And as far as I'm concerned, these are magnanimous as hell:

1. Split the bard off irrespective of whatever else happens.
2. Cleric
a) Split off the cleric and pay market value for the levels, time, epic, gear, etc. (as suggested by the OP, NOT by me).
b) Level up another cleric (to 49) for the OP (and hoping for a name swap from GMs)
1) Doing it myself/within omni
2) Giving OP a chunk of cash to do it himself

I've exchanged pages of correspondence with this person and he's gotten increasingly hostile - I suppose I could post all of that crap (I have in my petition) but this person has threatened to "out" me and try to destroy my reputation on the server and among my guildmates. I've got nothing to hide and I don't do well with being bullied.

I have made EVERY effort to be reasonable and decent about this - when, in fact, I probably have no responsibility to pay any attention to any of this. He sold the emu, I bought the emu from someone else DOWN THE LINE, and now this shit is flying around.

As it stands, we're waiting on the GMs to answer a few questions. Deru asked us to work something out among us and we've been bouncing communication back and forth semi-regularly as we can. It is gonna come down to the questions noted above (splitting accounts, name changes, etc. - event to the point of asking for no-drops to be moved).

Finally, think of the precedent here (this paragraph part of my petition). There are a LOT of dead toons that got woken up with the SMS reset option - I know of a number of them myself (tho ruinous is the only one I have use of). If this gets loose and public that xfers are happening and LS accounts are being restored, you'll have to take on extra staff just to deal with that a while. Could really be a bursting dam that you don't need. (I realize I have a dog in this fight, but that remains true irrespective of my involvement.)

Last thing. When I bought this from the seller, I made sure I was buying the emu. Period. Wouldn't have gotten it otherwise. What a nightmare for everyone.

So, there's way more goodwill coming from my end than is probably sane. We're waiting on GMs to tell us what's possible.

Oh, finally, somehow, with a petition this person managed to get the bard account -on MY emu with MY SMS - banned (tho the other 2 are still working). It hasn't been unbanned yet so things are still in flux.

As soon as the GMs tell us what's POSSIBLE to do in this case (and when they're willing to do it), we'll get something worked out. If they tell him to pound sand, we'll get something worked out on the back end.

[Bardalicious]

If you guys can find a little bit of compassion in your hearts for my current plight, please help by bumping this thread in the slight hope that Rogean sees it and helps.

[Bardalicious]

I didn't read through that whole post, but just for your information, this thread you referenced that you think sounds fishy:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159830

Was me trying to track down who owned Drowed. All of those character names were given to me by the person I originally sold the account to. So no, that wasn't me naming off a bunch of toons that I thought were on the account, that's me naming off a bunch of toons in hopes that the person that owned them also owned MY old account.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Go back to troll school. C-

[Whirled]

So, there's way more goodwill coming from my end than is probably sane.

/salute

[Bill Tetley]

good luck with this. I can't even get them to give me the email address that my main account is registered with that Ive been playing for over 4 years...

[Derubael]

Since this is all out here in Server Chat anyway, I'll save myself the time of responding to both of your threads separately:

1) I don't care what you guys work out, so long as it doesn't require any special treatment by Server Staff (IE, name changes, account resets, moving of loginserver accounts, etc)

2) As far as we're concerned, we never supported account trading to begin with. If someone traded an EQEmu account but continued to play on a loginserver account associated with that EQEmu and is now paying the price... well, I'd say it's up to the person you sold the account to on how to proceed. Bottom line here is if you traded an account, please don't ask us to do extra work if you didn't do it right and are now experiencing problems. We have enough to deal with without having to go around cleaning up people's messes that could have easily been avoided with a little forethought and standard internet security practices.

It's a shitty situation, but at a cursory glance (which is all I'm really willing to put into this) I can't tell who owned what when or what happened from there. If we wanted to go digging we could sort it out, but really, what's the point? It would take an inordinate amount of time, again, for something we didn't support in the first place, and my position would likely remain the same. I understand the frustration, but it seems Cloki is willing to work something out with Bardalicious, which is a lot more than most would be offering right now.

That's where I'm at on all of this. There's a fine line between an account being stolen, and an EQemulator account having it's LS server passwords reset. We told people time and time again to not share account information, trade accounts, etc., and I would think it would be common sense that if you're going to sell an Eqemulator account, you'd better be sure you don't have any other Loginserver accounts on that Eqemu.

I'm going to close out both of your petitions today when I get a chance. If you guys need further help with this beyond the guidelines I've laid out in this post, feel free to re-petition.

[Bardalicious]

Oh, finally, somehow, with a petition this person managed to get the bard account -on MY emu with MY SMS - banned (tho the other 2 are still working). It hasn't been unbanned yet so things are still in flux.

I think that this quote pretty well sums things up. The fact that this person feels in any way entitled to those accounts is absurd. They banned one of the two accounts to my benefit, yes, because they are NOT YOUR ACCOUNTS, and I sure hope they get around to banning the other too. I tracked down the sale thread from when you bought drowed and it's from over a year ago. You had the emu and had everything you needed to manage the account you bought. How is it you decided to SMS reset the other two accounts a full year later and thought that they were fair game? You had no reason to SMS reset the account you bought, so you did it with full intentions of taking those other two accounts in hopes they held characters.

An honest person would have made a post about it in an attempt to make sure nobody was using them. You, however, kept your mouth shut and decided to play them.

And yes, despite seeming to try to work something out with me in PMs it sure seemed like your tone was much different in your petition when you told the GMs that I was harassing you.

[GnashingOfTeeth]

http://media.giphy.com/media/1479KK7E4hJ0m4/giphy.gif

[Bardalicious]

Since this is all out here in Server Chat anyway, I'll save myself the time of responding to both of your threads separately:

1) I don't care what you guys work out, so long as it doesn't require any special treatment by Server Staff (IE, name changes, account resets, moving of loginserver accounts, etc)

2) As far as we're concerned, we never supported account trading to begin with. If someone traded an EQEmu account but continued to play on a loginserver account associated with that EQEmu and is now paying the price... well, I'd say it's up to the person you sold the account to on how to proceed. Bottom line here is if you traded an account, please don't ask us to do extra work if you didn't do it right and are now experiencing problems. We have enough to deal with without having to go around cleaning up people's messes that could have easily been avoided with a little forethought and standard internet security practices.

It's a shitty situation, but at a cursory glance (which is all I'm really willing to put into this) I can't tell who owned what when or what happened from there. If we wanted to go digging we could sort it out, but really, what's the point? It would take an inordinate amount of time, again, for something we didn't support in the first place, and my position would likely remain the same. I understand the frustration, but it seems Cloki is willing to work something out with Bardalicious, which is a lot more than most would be offering right now.

That's where I'm at on all of this. There's a fine line between an account being stolen, and an EQemulator account having it's LS server passwords reset. We told people time and time again to not share account information, trade accounts, etc., and I would think it would be common sense that if you're going to sell an Eqemulator account, you'd better be sure you don't have any other Loginserver accounts on that Eqemu.

I'm going to close out both of your petitions today when I get a chance. If you guys need further help with this beyond the guidelines I've laid out in this post, feel free to re-petition.

It's fucking absurd that you're claiming you can't tell who owned what accounts. 90% of All of the IP addresses on log for BOTH of those accounts come from the state I live in, with the short exception of a 6 month stint of living in NC. You can see that, so don't use that bullshit excuse as a cop-out. Especially since YOU unbanned MY cleric for me like a year ago. So... seriously?? Holy fuck..

The fact of the matter is that it would have taken minimal effort to help me BEFORE the shit hit the fan, since I petitioned BEFORE Pan stole my fucking accounts.

You may not support account trading, but Rogean HIMSELF stated the original owner is always consider the owner of an account. So where the fuck is the confusion? Those login server accounts were secure and solely in my possession until a change was made to enable SMS password resets, 6 fucking years after this place opened, so now I should be punished because of it?

I used to think you were one of few GMs that had any sort of compassion Deru, but wow was I wrong.

[Circa.]

my account got hacked into, somehow. Name was Circa Survive, whoever STOLE it petitioned to get the surname removed(so a fairly easy line to the culprit). Yet nothing at all, this has happened for a year now. Good luck with you scenario.

[Juryiel]

Since this is all out here in Server Chat anyway, I'll save myself the time of responding to both of your threads separately:

1) I don't care what you guys work out, so long as it doesn't require any special treatment by Server Staff (IE, name changes, account resets, moving of loginserver accounts, etc)


If GMs don't even consider the moving of accounts as a possible solution, I would not in a million years give any of the accounts on that emu to someone under any conditions. That person, if he so decided for any reason, could easily do something against the rules on purpose to possibly get all of my accounts banned including the ones not on the shared emu.

[indiscriminate_hater]

It's fucking absurd that you're claiming you can't tell who owned what accounts. 90% of All of the IP addresses on log for BOTH of those accounts come from the state I live in, with the short exception of a 6 month stint of living in NC. You can see that, so don't use that bullshit excuse as a cop-out. Especially since YOU unbanned MY cleric for me like a year ago. So... seriously?? Holy fuck..

The fact of the matter is that it would have taken minimal effort to help me BEFORE the shit hit the fan, since I petitioned BEFORE Pan stole my fucking accounts.

You may not support account trading, but Rogean HIMSELF stated the original owner is always consider the owner of an account. So where the fuck is the confusion? Those login server accounts were secure and solely in my possession until a change was made to enable SMS password resets, 6 fucking years after this place opened, so now I should be punished because of it?

I used to think you were one of few GMs that had any sort of compassion Deru, but wow was I wrong.

A whole lot of bad assumptions and faulty reasoning in this here post

[Pan]

So...in the interest of putting this to bed w/o Staff help, here's my offer:

1. Bard: figure out how to get this one unbanned and I'll change the PW for you whenever you want. I have no interest on anything on red. Just don't compromise the emu. I don't know what else to do here.

2. Cleric: Create a NEW emu with a L1 cleric on it and give me the infos. Within 2-3 weeks, I'll have him leveled to 49 with the Cleric's original gear on it and that will be that. Sorry about the name loss, but I cannot do anything about that.

I think, given the unwillingness of the staff to intervene, that this is the most sane, fair thing that I can come up with. And I think it's waaaaaaaaaay more than I'm obligated to do.

[Ket]

It's fucking absurd that you're claiming you can't tell who owned what accounts. 90% of All of the IP addresses on log for BOTH of those accounts come from the state I live in, with the short exception of a 6 month stint of living in NC. You can see that, so don't use that bullshit excuse as a cop-out. Especially since YOU unbanned MY cleric for me like a year ago. So... seriously?? Holy fuck..

The fact of the matter is that it would have taken minimal effort to help me BEFORE the shit hit the fan, since I petitioned BEFORE Pan stole my fucking accounts.

You may not support account trading, but Rogean HIMSELF stated the original owner is always consider the owner of an account. So where the fuck is the confusion? Those login server accounts were secure and solely in my possession until a change was made to enable SMS password resets, 6 fucking years after this place opened, so now I should be punished because of it?

I used to think you were one of few GMs that had any sort of compassion Deru, but wow was I wrong.

Take note. This is how you get GM's on your side! SAY IT AGAIN!

.........

[Derubael]

It's fucking absurd that you're claiming you can't tell who owned what accounts. 90% of All of the IP addresses on log for BOTH of those accounts come from the state I live in, with the short exception of a 6 month stint of living in NC. You can see that, so don't use that bullshit excuse as a cop-out. Especially since YOU unbanned MY cleric for me like a year ago. So... seriously?? Holy fuck..

The fact of the matter is that it would have taken minimal effort to help me BEFORE the shit hit the fan, since I petitioned BEFORE Pan stole my fucking accounts.

You may not support account trading, but Rogean HIMSELF stated the original owner is always consider the owner of an account. So where the fuck is the confusion? Those login server accounts were secure and solely in my possession until a change was made to enable SMS password resets, 6 fucking years after this place opened, so now I should be punished because of it?

I used to think you were one of few GMs that had any sort of compassion Deru, but wow was I wrong.

It would take an inordinate amount of time, again, for something we didn't support in the first place, and my position would likely remain the same

And by the way, I've gone the extra mile for you in the past. I'm sorry that I'm not willing to do it again for something we've never supported.

[Bardalicious]

Oh, and I know for a fact from others and by your own admission that you've done character transfers on accounts for people in the past. Talk about unfair and unequal treatment. This is a cut-and-dry situation, of which I presented a multitude of facts in my case, on top of 5 years of IP logs to prove that I was the owner of those accounts, and yet you're not going to give it more than a "cursory glance".

I guess babysitting guilds in VP so they can get their 136th dragon kill without being KSed is more important than someone that just lost two accounts that they've spent 5 years playing.

[Swish]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/4700736/mj-eating-popcorn-o.gif

[Bardalicious]

And by the way, I've gone the extra mile for you in the past. I'm sorry that I'm not willing to do it again for something we've never supported.

So what you're saying is that:

the original owner of an account will always be considered the owner of the account.

Means nothing since you won't enforce it.

This shouldn't even be an issue here at p99, but the fact of the matter is that you can't get ANY help from Rogean with account management at eqemu so we're forced to try to beg for help from GMs here? It's pretty fucking laughable, especially with the clear "don't give a shit" attitude you all display when getting asked for said help.

[Swish]

http://media.giphy.com/media/dnP2VxYVlW2NW/giphy.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/RHiD0K65NxxLO/giphy.gif

[Circa.]

Whoever has my wizard, can I have her back now ? it's only been a year. GM's do nothing =(

[Circa.]

my account got hacked into, somehow. Name was Circa Survive, whoever STOLE it petitioned to get the surname removed(so a fairly easy line to the culprit). Yet nothing at all, this has happened for a year now. Good luck with you scenario.

[Swish]

I let a friend play on my account and he changed the password on me and stuff. I promise no plat changed hands during the account sales era, and really want my blue Swish account back.

Thanks in advance.

(if you get what I'm saying)

[Circa.]

yeah I hear ya.. =(

[Bardalicious]

I also enjoy how this went from "sorry you need Rogean to help with your petition" to "lol don't want to help u, deleting petition!!" In the course of one day. But hey, at least I got you to post here pal! God knows you didn't reply in the petition thread or to PMs.

Congrats on your new toons Cloki. I hope some of you got a glimpse of how little the GMs care about the players here ITT.

[Atmas]

It's fucking absurd that you're claiming you can't tell who owned what accounts. 90% of All of the IP addresses on log for BOTH of those accounts come from the state I live in, with the short exception of a 6 month stint of living in NC. You can see that, so don't use that bullshit excuse as a cop-out. Especially since YOU unbanned MY cleric for me like a year ago. So... seriously?? Holy fuck..

The fact of the matter is that it would have taken minimal effort to help me BEFORE the shit hit the fan, since I petitioned BEFORE Pan stole my fucking accounts.

You may not support account trading, but Rogean HIMSELF stated the original owner is always consider the owner of an account. So where the fuck is the confusion? Those login server accounts were secure and solely in my possession until a change was made to enable SMS password resets, 6 fucking years after this place opened, so now I should be punished because of it?

I used to think you were one of few GMs that had any sort of compassion Deru, but wow was I wrong.


GMs said don't do this shit. They really don't owe you even more than a response that says we don't participate in these matters.

I didn't really read this whole thread but the last post by Pan, if that is the actual guy who has account control, seems like a sweet deal in a situation where many people would just tell you to get bent.

[Ket]

I dropped a Blackjack, and a half a set of banded armor on the ground for a character Xfer and someone took it. Can I have that back please? Will pay in favors.

-Ket

[Man0warr]

You should take Cloki up on his offer and STFU before you get nothing.

[khanable]

I was told there was extortion

where is this extortion

[indiscriminate_hater]

lol 2nd great backfire thread this week. it's like simulated repop day for forumquest

[Bardalicious]

You should take Cloki up on his offer and STFU before you get nothing.

Nah, I don't care to play here any more, especially under a new name. Perhaps that was the end goal desired by Deru anyways. GJ pal, you won.

I truly hope nobody else here has to lose as much as I have, it's deplorable how little compassion this community and its' GMs have. You guys really deserve each other.

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/dwqXnZ4.gif

[Man0warr]

Nah, I don't care to play here any more, especially under a new name. Perhaps that was the end goal desired by Deru anyways. GJ pal, you won.

I truly hope nobody else here has to lose as much as I have, it's deplorable how little compassion this community and its' GMs have. You guys really deserve each other.

Dude you sold your EQ Emu Login info, what the fuck did you expect to happen.

[Bardalicious]

lol 2nd great backfire thread this week. it's like simulated repop day for forumquest

How did this backfire? I went four months without help, and knew damn well it was unlikely to come as a result of this thread. Not like I had anything left to lose.

Troll on buddy.

[Glenzig]

Nah, I don't care to play here any more, especially under a new name. Perhaps that was the end goal desired by Deru anyways. GJ pal, you won.

I truly hope nobody else here has to lose as much as I have, it's deplorable how little compassion this community and its' GMs have. You guys really deserve each other.

Then what were you hoping to accomplish with this thread? I would take Cloki up on his offer for sure right now. You're going to want to come back at some point, most likely whenever Velious is live if nothing else. Save yourself the tears and get it done right now. Cloki is offering you your bard back, and you get a chance to reroll a cleric starting at 49 with the exact same gear you left with? Don't be stupid dude, take that offer.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Dude you sold your EQ Emu Login info, what the fuck did you expect to happen.

[Bardalicious]

Dude you sold your EQ Emu Login info, what the fuck did you expect to happen.

Are you daft? For 6 years you couldn't touch a login server account without knowing the password. Should I have predicted the future somehow to know they'd change the system out of the blue?

[khanable]

Ya selling your emu basically means you sold everything attached to that emu

you haven't really backed up your claims either, so I'd say this is indeed a backfire thread

POSTING IN A BACKFIRE THREAD

PARTY ON GUYS

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oS6_rX0T2dY/T_cbXtDRrvI/AAAAAAAAA_s/I-mOlik3oFo/s1600/wayne-garth-waynes-world-15834539.jpg

[Rais]

Can we move this to RnF please? Nothing but a huge troll at scamming.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Are you daft? For 6 years you couldn't touch a login server account without knowing the password. Should I have predicted the future somehow to know they'd change the system out of the blue?

That's the risk you took. Sure, it was unlikely, but you sold the EMU with other accounts tied to it. You gambled and you lost. Sucks, but it is what it is.

[stakha]

Then what were you hoping to accomplish with this thread? I would take Cloki up on his offer for sure right now. You're going to want to come back at some point, most likely whenever Velious is live if nothing else. Save yourself the tears and get it done right now. Cloki is offering you your bard back, and you get a chance to reroll a cleric starting at 49 with the exact same gear you left with? Don't be stupid dude, take that offer.

[Swish]

After much deliberation I think there's one solution in all our minds...

http://i.imgur.com/ukBSczM.gif

[Bardalicious]

Then what were you hoping to accomplish with this thread? I would take Cloki up on his offer for sure right now. You're going to want to come back at some point, most likely whenever Velious is live if nothing else. Save yourself the tears and get it done right now. Cloki is offering you your bard back, and you get a chance to reroll a cleric starting at 49 with the exact same gear you left with? Don't be stupid dude, take that offer.

He's offering my bard back, but he will always know the password and be able to access it at all times, or steal it back (again). It may sound stupid, but I have no interest in making a new cleric when I can't have my old name. And especially don't have interest in continuing to play here after the complete disinterest in helping shown by Deru.

Thanks for making it so much easier to walk away from this community Pan, Deru, etc.

[indiscriminate_hater]

He's offering my bard back, but he will always know the password and be able to access it at all times, or steal it back (again). It may sound stupid, but I have no interest in making a new cleric when I can't have my old name. And especially don't have interest in continuing to play here after the complete disinterest in helping shown by Deru.

Thanks for making it so much easier to walk away from this community Pan, Deru, etc.

too many whiners on the box already imo. don't let the door hit you on the way out

[zanderklocke]

http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/000617

I think you should step away from p99 for at least a week or so. You're pretty much going through all of these stages in front of a large amount of people that don't really care that much about your situation.

Anyone would be frustrated after putting years of work into characters, but you probably should step away from the computer so you cannot make your melt down public.

[Dirtnap]

This thread is a perfect example of why account sales were bad. People sold their info and then regret selling it. Then they try to get the info back by stealing it from whoever they sold it to.

[Glenzig]

He's offering my bard back, but he will always know the password and be able to access it at all times, or steal it back (again). It may sound stupid, but I have no interest in making a new cleric when I can't have my old name. And especially don't have interest in continuing to play here after the complete disinterest in helping shown by Deru.

Thanks for making it so much easier to walk away from this community Pan, Deru, etc.

You're going to want to play here again at some point. If you take the offer for the cleric, at the very least, then at least you'll have that. If not, then when you do decide to come back, you'll have nothing. I would take the offer for the cleric, even if I never touched it again for months or years.

[fastboy21]

Nah, I don't care to play here any more, especially under a new name. Perhaps that was the end goal desired by Deru anyways. GJ pal, you won.

I truly hope nobody else here has to lose as much as I have, it's deplorable how little compassion this community and its' GMs have. You guys really deserve each other.

The problem worked itself out without GM intervention after all.

Oh...btw...don't share your account information. if you do you turn into Bardalicious. if you bought an account (when it was still allowed) I suggest you make certain you actually have 100% control of those toons.

As for Bardalicious, I hear Kegz is starting up a great server any day now.

[Nikon]

I agree this thread was a terrible idea. Sorry for your loss as I'm sure we can all appreciate the passion you have for your characters, but burning Deru and making a scene will get you no where. At the end of the day, they don't have to help us with issues like this and it's really not fair to get angry at them about it. Just be thankful when they do and move along. I've been dealing with an account issue that I created by trusting the wrong person. It's taking months to hash out and they may never fix it for me (sure hope they do), but why get mad at them for me fucking up? Doesn't make sense.

Moral of the story: If you give even 1 shit about your stuff, don't share it. I know I learned my lesson.

[Daywolf]

Click and drag to get your answer...

http://i.imgur.com/lA9kxhG.gif

[Nuggie]

Visage, i would feel bad for you if you didnt have such a toxic past.

Take what deal Cloki is giving and call it a day.

Don't forget, it's all just pixels.

edit to prove in before rnf

[Daywolf]

This thread is a perfect example of why account sales were bad. People sold their info and then regret selling it. Then they try to get the info back by stealing it from whoever they sold it to.
Been playing mmo's some 16 years, mud's before that. Never sold an account. Never shared an account. Legal or not, have seen lots of people get in some kind of trouble doing that. Yeah, shouldn't have sold it, and just as bad the buyer shouldn't have taken what didn't belong to him. Especially on an EMU, buyer and seller beware. Just don't do it.

[Swish]

I hear Kegz is starting up a great server any day now.

gud 1 :D

[Glenzig]

Hey Cloki, if Bardalicious doesn't want the level 49 cleric deal, you could just PL my cleric to 49 and give me the gear as recompense for your actions. It will help absolve your conscience. I promise.

[August]

This was entertaining on my lunch break.

Dude offered to plvl a cleric to 49 for you and you're still SO MAD

[Thulack]

I did this to someone. i was curious after they implemented the system and i have a few emu's with logins that didnt get passed onto me when i bought them. I figured no one would be stupid enough to continue playing on a account they didnt have emu info for but i was wrong. I happen to find a account with a decked out rogue twink with HE mask, Epic, about 30k in gear. I felt bad instantly knowing that i took someone's toon. I left the toon the way it was and petitioned. Eunomia told me nothing they could do about it. I told her to let person know if they petitioned to contact me. After about 2 months they did and i offered to have my wife(doesnt play EQ) change the password to something and then send it to him in a PM. She probably forgot whatever it was a week later and i don't know the info so the guy got his account back with his toon and gear...Shit happens. Cloki coulda gone about it a different way and so could Bard have in the end. But yeah if you don't have emu info you might aswell start fresh now and save yourself the heartache down the road when someone gets curious and resets your PW's on you.

[zanderklocke]

I did this to someone. i was curious after they implemented the system and i have a few emu's with logins that didnt get passed onto me when i bought them. I figured no one would be stupid enough to continue playing on a account they didnt have emu info for but i was wrong. I happen to find a account with a decked out rogue twink with HE mask, Epic, about 30k in gear. I felt bad instantly knowing that i took someone's toon. I left the toon the way it was and petitioned. Eunomia told me nothing they could do about it. I told her to let person know if they petitioned to contact me. After about 2 months they did and i offered to have my wife(doesnt play EQ) change the password to something and then send it to him in a PM. She probably forgot whatever it was a week later and i don't know the info so the guy got his account back with his toon and gear...Shit happens. Cloki coulda gone about it a different way and do could bard have in the end. But yeah if you don't have emu info you might aswell start fresh now and save yourself the heartache down the road when someone gets curious and resets your PW's on you.

Yeah it seems like it would just be easier for Cloki to give the password to the bard and cleric account only instead of PLing a cleric to 49? It seems like Bardalicious was going to compensate him for his time spent on the cleric anyway.

I mean I guess Bardalicious would have to trust that Cloki wouldn't change the passwords again?

[Clark]

This whole situation is just not good to hear. Technically sounds like he will always have control over your accounts. Unfortunate and unsettling to read.

[HippoNipple]

I won't even let people tag Omni if they do not have the ability to change their passswords b/c I don't want to gear them only to have their 'toons and the work poof.



This is true. I had to give him my password to join the guild to prove I wasn't into account sharing.

[daasgoot]

enjoyed this thread.. thanks all.

[Bardalicious]

I purchased an emu (more than a year ago when it was still allowed) for plat that had a L51 firepot necro attached. I made sure I purchased the emu. This was not purchased from Bardalicious/Drowed/Ruinous (why so many handles in play here)? The account had changed hands several times.

Why so many forum handles? You mean Drowed and Bardalicious, right? What were the names of the characters on those accounts? Oh... right... Drowed and Bardalicious. :confused:


Then, when it was possible, I associated the emu with my SMS (as instructed).

What you mean to say is that a full year after buying the necromancer you saw an opportunity to snag two accounts you never had access to and never paid for. You had full control over the eqemu account already, so there was no reason so SMS reset your password to the Necromancer you already had full control over.


When this person cast a broad net in this thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159830 - naming six toons that are NOT on this emu, I feel like this is what's going on (from this link) in which Sirken said:

second of all, id bet body parts that 90% of these people are just trying to steal back an acct they sold in the past. stay classy

Look at his initial post on server forum - doesn't mention Ruinous or Bardalicious (other two toons in question) - but looks like he's casting a broad net saying: here's a bunch of accounts I used to have, I regret selling them all and now want them back, let's see how many i can get...just fishing.


It's laughably sad how you're trying to undermine me and downplay your theft of my accounts. It's even more sad that some people in this thread are believing this bullshit. First off, I have no idea where you pulled that quote from Sirken from, but it certainly wasn't from THAT thread.

Here's the full list of sale threads in which my necromancer Drowed was sold:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75492 <- this is the initial sale from my forum account Drowed, in which the necromancer was sold to forum user azxten.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107042 <- this is the second sale of Drowed in which azxten sold the account to duneadx.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114256 <- this is the third and final sale of the account in which duneadx sold the account to Pan.

Now, the first thing to note is that nowhere in any of those auctions does it mention a bard nor a cleric being involved in the sale. Because they weren't a part of it. Pan sure as hell knew that.

Secondly, to discredit the rediculous theory that I was "casting a net" for characters I used to own, here is the PM I got back from azxten when I asked him whom he ended up selling the account to, so that I could track down the owner and find out who took my accounts.


http://i61.tinypic.com/2jd4dq9.jpg

Now, if you look at that persons signature, you'd see it lists all of the characters I mentioned in the post I made in an attempt to track down the current owner of the account. Not an hour after making the post, someone was kind enough to send me a PM that you, Cloki, were the current owner of Drowed.

It's a shitty situation, but at a cursory glance (which is all I'm really willing to put into this) I can't tell who owned what when or what happened from there.

And by the way, I've gone the extra mile for you in the past. I'm sorry that I'm not willing to do it again for something we've never supported.

Now, if you kept up with this thread, in the first post Derubael made he attempted to discredit assisting me because they "couldn't tell who owned what", yet in his next post he acknowledges that he un-banned the cleric in question for me not a year or so ago. So, magically in that time frame, the IP logs became so convoluted that he could no longer tell that the character was mine? Despite the bard being named... Bardalicious.

[GnashingOfTeeth]

So if I follow correctly, you sold your account, eqemu login as part of that transaction.
Now the owner of the info, can take control via the eqemu login of any toons associated with that account?

You sold, it sucks, just roll a new everything. I am sure Cloki or whatever the fuck his name is might be able to help you out.

I would never want that over my head, is someone going to grab my shit again?

The staff here is not paid, and Sirken gives zero shits about this stuff (Sirkenism).

I do sympathize, I would be frustrated, but every time I sold an account on live (3x) I knew I would never, ever, ever use it again.

You can level up, you know the game, reroll bro.

[khanable]

I think both of you were dumb

1) op was bad for selling the emu to accounts he intended to keep
2) Cloki for playing the accounts that he recovered through pw reset (what's the excuse for this?)


Imo: ban all accounts in question

[Rais]

Sold account= Sold eqemu. Tough shit, looks like you're the type who walks in front of a car and is surprised that you get ran over.

This is what you get for being a scumbag account seller with multiple forum names. Guess someone from Blue yt you pretty bad. No LnS policy here.

[daasgoot]

I think both of you were dumb

1) op was bad for selling the emu to accounts he intended to keep
2) Cloki for playing the accounts that he recovered through pw reset (what's the excuse for this?)

[Rais]

Ban Metallikus and all his in game accounts. Guy is going to get heavy metal posioning from all the tin he wraps his body in if he keeps playing/posting here.

[khanable]

I think it's like buying a piece of farmland, then discovering it has two silo's you didn't know about. You own the deed to the land - so why wouldn't you start renovations on a structure that you own?

My husband and I bought a house, including the land it sits on - about 5 years ago. If I went outside right now and noticed a treehouse in the woods with a homeless person squatting in it I wouldn't be as nice as Cloki and tell them they could potentially live there. I'd tell them to GTFO before I call the cops.

Well as the OP stated those accounts were not apart of any of the sales. Also as OP stated, Cloki wouldn't have had access to them had he not been able to SMS reset.

Are they technically his? Absolutely.

Did he do the right thing by claiming ownership and actively using the characters? IMO, no.

And for someone who runs a guild based on "doing the right thing no matter how technically correct you are" it's kind of a shitty thing to do.

Hence, both are dumb.

also:

Ban Metallikus and all his in game accounts. Guy is going to get heavy metal posioning from all the tin he wraps his body in if he keeps playing/posting here.

+1

[daasgoot]

I think it's like buying a piece of farmland, then discovering it has two silo's you didn't know about. You own the deed to the land - so why wouldn't you start renovations on a structure that you own?

My husband and I bought a house, including the land it sits on - about 5 years ago. If I went outside right now and noticed a treehouse in the woods with a homeless person squatting in it I wouldn't be as nice as Cloki and tell them they could potentially live there. I'd tell them to GTFO before I call the cops.

what a terrible analogy.

[Tuffpuppy]

The cleric needs to be banned ASAP. Account theft is no joke.

[Bardalicious]

Sold account= Sold eqemu. Tough shit, looks like you're the type who walks in front of a car and is surprised that you get ran over.

This is what you get for being a scumbag account seller with multiple forum names. Guess someone from Blue yt you pretty bad. No LnS policy here.

It seems pretty obvious that you're either in that guild or friends with Cloki. I never see you post, so for you to be so vocal about a matter that doesn't really concern you is a pretty big give away.

And why am I a scumbag ? I had the forum handle drowed when I played that toon.. I made the forum account bardalicious when I rolled that toon. What's the big deal?

[sonicjoose]

I had the same thing happen to me. Luckily the guy who reset my account with the SMS system was a standup guy and let me reset my password.

[phacemeltar]

all i read was:

cries for help

[jarlerop]

I do feel sorry for you man, but come on. I think you should except a namechange and have a fresh 49 cleric. Also, i cannot understand how swapping names can mean ANY work for the GM's. It sounds so fucking easy to do :)

[Rekrul]

Honestly, I think its scummy, its obvious the cleric wasnt part of the deal and Cloki took him simply because he could. You can say to the OP, "oh well, you fucked up son" (true) but at the same time you cannot say what Cloki did wasn't of very low integrity.

If he's offering to make it right and PL you a 49 cleric, I think that's reasonable, I would take the offer.

[baakss]

Why don't you just take him up on the offer to PL you a cleric to 49 and replace with what you originally had dude?

By being so confrontational, you come off as kind of crazy at this point. If the GM said he's not going to help (which it's hard to blame him at this point based on your reaction), then take the next best offer, which is the PL.

[Derubael]

Now, if you kept up with this thread, in the first post Derubael made he attempted to discredit assisting me because they "couldn't tell who owned what", yet in his next post he acknowledges that he un-banned the cleric in question for me not a year or so ago. So, magically in that time frame, the IP logs became so convoluted that he could no longer tell that the character was mine? Despite the bard being named... Bardalicious.

There's a difference between knowing a character is yours, and going into the logs to prove it. I have no need to discredit assisting you - frankly, I don't need to give a reason at all, but the big sticking point here is that we never supported account trades, and all trades were done at your own risk. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time digging up logs (which I would need to do to before going to Rogean), then going to Rogean and asking him to go digging for logs (instead of spending his P99 time on improving the box) just to verify everything and reset your account. And yes, we do have to verify, regardless of what we "know".

Again, for something we do not support, have never supported, and never will support. There are other people out there who have problems that weren't a result of their own poor judgement that we need to help.

I understand the frustration, but you have to look at this objectively from our viewpoint - we need to take the whole picture into account, not just as it pertains to Bardalicious and Cloki. There is so much work to do and so little time to do it that we have to turn people away when necessary.

If you'd like to pursue the matter further, you are welcome to do so by messaging Rogean - but I guarantee that not only will his answer be the same as mine, but you would have gotten faster results by just taking Cloki's offer (which, IMO, is generous considering he really isn't obligated to do anything at all).

Good luck.

[Bardalicious]

You'd probably get a little confrontational if you foresaw this whole thing, tried to get help months before it happened, got ignored and fully dismissed up until and after it did.

The GMs would have you believe that they don't have time for dealing with this sort of thing, but quite honestly, it would take minimal effort to assist with, especially with all of the information I provided them with. Its pretty sad that they'd allow something like this to slide and allow Cloki to keep playing my stolen characters. Of all the things to take precedence in the petition que I'd think something like this would be up there. Oh well.

[tanknspank]

I can't fathom how you would think it was a good idea to sell a master account but continue to play on two if it's sub-accounts. Sure, at that time it wasn't possible to reset pw for the sub-accounts, but it's unreasonable to feel so sure that would never change.

I mean there's sooo many ways that could have gone wrong eventually, even if the PW reset wasn't implemented, like:
- New rule: 1 concurrent login per emu account only
- OTPs being implemented per emu accounts and shared for all its login accounts
- Oops, login password table got corrupted, you must login to emu account to set a new one before you can play
- Emu and login1 end up in the hands of a bad player and all their accounts get the banhammer, good luck arguing you're a different person who uses login2 and login3 and not them using a VPN

[Bazia]

Cloki is a saint for not just telling you to fuck off immediately which is completely within his right to do after purchasing the eqemu.

It's not his fault you were retarded and kept playing on an account you sold. It's not even you who sold it to him it was some random nerd so it's not like you asked him not to play your toons or anything.

95% of people would just tell you to go away immediately, and you have the nerve to talk shit to the guy. If he didn't tell you to go away before he definitely should now.

You did something really, really stupid. Sorry but it's no one elses fault you kept playing on an account that got sold multiple times no matter what you're excuse is.

[Poetic]

Cloki is a saint for not just telling you to fuck off immediately which is completely within his right to do after purchasing the eqemu.

It's not his fault you were retarded and kept playing on an account you sold. It's not even you who sold it to him it was some random nerd so it's not like you asked him not to play your toons or anything.

95% of people would just tell you to go away immediately, and you have the nerve to talk shit to the guy. If he didn't tell you to go away before he definitely should now.

You did something really, really stupid. Sorry but it's no one elses fault you kept playing on an account that got sold multiple times no matter what you're excuse is.

A saint? Lol lol lol lol. Holy moly horse Shit. He was scummy and stole the accounts. After he sees this thread about to blow Shit all over him, he offers a to level him another cleric. The Shit licking thief should give the stolen cleric back regardless of gear and level differences minus any boes. He's not going to do the right thing at this point, so take the scumbags pl offer. Verified piece if Shit

[Bardalicious]

Haha, yeah. Its pretty hilarious watching fellow scumbags defend the guy.

[DarkwingDuck]

Meh..
Nothin we can do.. I quit for 9 months.. Came back and can't remember the password of the cleric I bought 2 years ago, then got him epic
Either I'm retarded and for some reason I cannot remember 1 out of 4 of my account passwords, or the SMS fucked me like everyone else following the rules for years, and the account got changed.

My 52 Dark Elf Cleric , that I purchased ,is named JAIGE. But I havnt seen him log in since ivebeen back.. So I dunno... Someone maybe stole him and quit since then..
Oh well I'm just back to playin my old main, a 50 Mage.
Just sucks can't give out rezzes to friends, or have friends Rez me... There's 120k plat I'll never see again (40k for the clr, 80 for the epic) hehe

[Pan]

A saint? Lol lol lol lol. Holy moly horse Shit. He was scummy and stole the accounts. After he sees this thread about to blow Shit all over him, he offers a to level him another cleric. The Shit licking thief should give the stolen cleric back regardless of gear and level differences minus any boes. He's not going to do the right thing at this point, so take the scumbags pl offer. Verified piece if Shit

That's just a lie.

On 2 Aug you wrote (PMs):
Also, since you're adamant about getting compensation for your time invested on my cleric (inserted note: which was an offer you initially made by you to me on 31 July) , I assume that if the GMs do not help and you keep it that you'll be compensating me for my time on him, right? Seems fair to me!

I replied on the same day a few hours later (more than a week ago):
Yeah, for sure on the cleric thing. Btw, was your offer on the no-drops, levels. But...worst case -
I think you should have the bard no matter WHAT happens. And even if they're not willing to split off the account, my PW management thing (ONLY you have access and can change thru me any time) totally stands.
I'd be happy to make a new emu (or have you make a new emu) and PL a cleric up to that level and put the approximate ruinous gear on him (I think I still hae all of it on him or in the bank). I'd even go so far as to advocate name swaps if they'd do it so you could keep the name. Might take me a couple of weeks to get the cleric to 49, but... I'd offer straight up cash (dun know how much it costs to PL a cleric) but I don't know if that would be considered buying an account...that's on an emu I have? WTF? all pretty grey and greasy that way. But I think if we bring something to the table...they'll bite.
GMs don't seem unreasonable at all. They want us to come to some sort of terms. I think that uncle rogean might be slow on the draw to split accounts. It's been 2 months for me waiting on raid forum access after the first kill that would grant us access. Just languishing that way.

Just an outright lie.

[Bazia]

This guy is just putting the blame on a bunch of people for his retarded decisions, don't think he realizes that 95% of people would instantly tell him to fuck off.

The fact you're offering him a complete replacement toon is beyond what most would do.

[Bardalicious]

This guy is just putting the blame on a bunch of people for his retarded decisions, don't think he realizes that 95% of people would instantly tell him to fuck off.

The fact you're offering him a complete replacement toon is beyond what most would do.

Fortunately, some people still hold a shred of decency and disagree with you.

[Pan]

Just for the record. TLDR, for sure, but for the sake of transparency, here it is. If this is gonna be a public shitshow, at least the data should be public. If you take the time to read it, look for tenor changes, threats, seller's remorse, and endgame play here. Also note the willingness to split the cleric back to him under the conditions that he offered.

Drowed (whom I believe is Bardalicious): 07-31-2014, 12:36 PM
Hello.
I've heard through the grapevine that you've at some point obtained my necromancer Drowed via plat for account sales. I had a login server account attached to that eqemu which I retained sole access to. It remained safe as there was no way for the eqemu account owner to change the password of that account without knowing the password to begin with.
Obviously something has changed with that system because someone has gone ahead and changed the password to that account on me...
Was it you by chance?


Me to Drowed (31 july, 01:43 PM)
Yes, when I bought the account more than a year ago, the eqemulator credentials were included. I wouldn't buy an account that didn't have the credentials attached. I changed the eqemulator email and credentials the day I bought the account. It is now attached to my SMS info, too.
What's at issue here?

Me to Drowed (31 july, 02:04 PM)
Do you want access to that bard on red? I can surely give that to you.
I think I know what happened. When the SMS thing came into the game, you associate your account (entire emu) with your phone number. I did that with the drowed account and reset all 3 login server passwords associated with the emu.

Drowed to me (31 July, 02:59 PM) (note no mention of the cleric here)
Yes.. I realize it's a long shot but I do want the bard back. I know it may seem like a stupid thing to do, but when I sold Drowed to (redacted) originally we had an understanding that he wouldn't get access to the (bard account) login account. It remained safe and in my hands up until Rogean changed the login system by adding SMS linking and linking the accounts to P99 forum accounts.
Had that never happened, I'd never have lost access to that account.

Me to Drowed (31 July, 03:03 PM)
I understand 100000000000pct. It's an odd thing. Please tell me what pw you want for it and I'll change it immediately and give you my word I'll never log it in. You can check around on the server - I think I have a stellar reputation as being a straight shooter and trustworthy. And if you ever need to change it, you can get me at xxxxxx at gmail and I'll change it again to whatever you want. I'm thrilled someone is gonna use that bard.

Me to Drowed (31 July, 03:15 PM)
Gdi, since you sold it - not since I bought it.

Drowed to me (31 July, 03:17 PM) (no mention of the cleric here)
Aye, (redacted) bought it from me (I'm the original owner) then it got sold once more before going to you I think. Makes me glad to know that she's still being used because I miss playing her quite a bit and regret selling her!
I greatly appreciate you being straightforward and honest with me. If you could change the PW for now to:
xxxxxxx (note upper case x and x, lower case x)
That would be great. I've filled out a petition about that account already, would you be opposed to consenting to them helping me either move my character(s) off the (bard account) account to one of my own, or removing that account from that eqemu account all together? Not sure if Rogean will ever get around to helping anyways, hehe.
Thanks again for the timely reply and honesty... you have no idea how hard my heart sank to the floor when I saw the password was changed.

Me to Drowed (31 July, 03:32 PM) (I try to log into the account and he's managed to get the bard banned - had no idea that was his work at this time)
HOLY COW the account is currently banned? Wow. Did you get in touch with CS already?
I can get into Drowed, but...
Also, PW had to be 8 or more characters - it is xxxxxx now - and I've got NO problem if you can get Rogean to reassign - that would be slick/fine by me.

Me to Drowed (31 July, 03:35 PM)
Ah, okay - saw that a petition is in the works. Have Rogean contact me and I'll give my blessing for splitting it off. And you're welcome. We're all humans and if we can work shit out among us, all the better.
Happy to do this for you for sure. (Tho I do want to keep (xxxxxCleric)...put lot into that one).
Hope he'll split that one off for you. If not, feel free to contact me any time to change PW or for whatever reason.

Drowed to me (31 July, 3:36 PM)
Well that's lovely...
I've had a petition in for 6 long months now begging for help before something happened, then it finally did (although accidental on your part hehe), so who knows if they'll EVER get around to helping me...

Me to Drowed (31 July, 03:40 PM)
Well shoot...I guess it's still my account for the moment, technically - shame it got locked. I'll put in a petition, too - did you do it on the EMU forums or on the p99 forums? I want to do it in the same place and parallel your wishes.
Worst case, you can change the PW now thru me if we can get it unbanned (which is something that you couldn't ever do without the emu). Best case is they split it off for ya.
Also, if you don't mind, would you make a post in your original thread? This sort of taints my name in a way that blindsided me. I'd like people to know that we're getting this sorted out.

Drowed to me (31 July, 03:38 PM) (note that this is the first he realizes cleric pw changed - or even on the same emu??)
WOAH WOAH WOAH... you're telling me you have access to (cleric account) as well now???? My CLERIC on blue too???

Me to Drowed (31 July, 03:41 PM)
Yep, epiced and purpled - lotta hours into that little one.

Drowed to me (31 July, 03:48 PM) (odd shock here - told him in the first correspondence that I'd reset all 3 pws)
You've got to be KIDDING me. That account was MINE as recent as 2 or 3 months ago, and was NEVER a part of any purchase you made from whoever sold you Drowed. You never thought anything of just taking the account without asking questions???

Drowed to me (31 July, 03:50 PM) (7 years? more like 4 (born on: May 10, 2010))
I made (Cleric) as my first character on this server 7 years ago. I'm sorry, but I can't let that one fly...

Me to Drowed (31 July, 03:52 PM)
When you buy the account, you buy the emu, I think. At least that's how it worked on all the emus that I did buy when it was still legal. And that's how it's been working for other people, too.
And whom would I ask questions of? Seriously, I gave it no second thought. When I got the SMS done associated with my number, it was a no-brainer to change all the PWs. That's why I insisted that I got the EMU with the account. So I could control it.

Drowed to me (31 July, 03:56 PM)
You purchased an account that advertised a measly 52 necromancer with TD firepot bind. If the owner had access to either the bard or cleric accounts, logically, they would have mentioned something about it in the auction and charged far more for it...
There's no way that you did an SMS password change, which is a brand new system that's been implemented, and just happened to think everything was on the level when you suddenly got a 54 bard and 49 cleric as a result of it.
You're welcome to rescind that offer of changing my bards PW, because that character means less than nothing to me compared to the cleric I've had for 7 years..
I apologize for whatever work you may have put into him, but I have no choice but to attempt some sort of GM intervention on this one.

Drowed to me (31 July, 03:59 PM)
Also, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the bard account was banned due to my petition about it being stolen from me. It's not hard to imagine that the cleric will suffer the same fate now when I proceed with explaining to them that the same thing happened..

Me to Drowed (31 July, 04:04 PM)
All good - let's let them sort this out. And at the end of the day, I'm still willing to work with you on the bard. Same offer irrespective of how stupid the cleric thing gets (but maybe we can work something out there, too). But...I am 100pct operating under the assumption that when you buy an Emu, you buy the accounts associated with it.
And when you associate the emu creds with your SMS you have the option of resetting all 3 passwords. That's just how it works and how it did work.
I sent in a petition asking for the bard to be unbanned (and split off) to you. The sorry for the work on the cleric doesn't cut it for me. Let's keep talking about that one. I'm not unreasonable, but "to hell with it" seems unreasonable to me.

Me to Drowed (31 July, 04:09 PM)
I *think* that they're gonna end up telling you that I bought the emu/credentials/accounts. If that's the case, we'll try to work something out between us.

Drowed to me (31 July, 04:42 PM) (here he makes the offer to compensate for the time/stuff I put into the cleric - his initiative)
Except that you didn't buy the cleric. You purchased the account under the impression that it came with a level 52 necromancer named (xxxxx), period.
If they had wanted the eqemulator account holder to have 100% access over the login server accounts created under them, they would have made a way to recover passwords a whole lot sooner. But they didn't until recently. And as such, despite you having control of the eqemulator account, I maintained full access to both xxxx and xxxx accounts, which I can full well prove when they check the records of IP's used to log into them.
The bottom line is that you purchased an account for a 52 necromancer named Drowed. You got lucky that they just implemented the SMS system to change the passwords to two accounts that were in my possession prior to that.
As per the big man himself when they announced account trading being banned here:
Quote: the original owner of an account will always be considered the owner of the account
Now, I don't know how that pertains to recovering my necromancer, but I wouldn't try to anyways as that was clearly on the level. Sniping two accounts that you know full well you didn't pay for, was not. Should they not just outright BAN the cleric and end up ruling in my favor, I'll gladly compensate you for the epic and other work put into him. I've got about 200k in assets left on blue, which includes a fungi tunic.
I'm sorry that I can't walk away from this cleric. It may sound stupid, but it has quite a bit of sentimental value to me..

Me to Drowed (31 July, 04:46 PM)
Now we're talking...as much as I don't want to lose the little guy, I'm not unreasonable on that end. Gah, I don't want to re-epic that guy. And I do understand the sentimental nature of the whole thing.
What sort of arrangement did you have in mind? He's 52 now, btw.
I'm pretty sure we can get something figured out.

Drowed to me (31 July, 05:05 PM)
There's very little we can do to come to an agreement between us, because unless you're going to relinquish the eqemulator account to me, I'd have to wait to hear whether Rogean can transfer the characters off or move the login server accounts to a new eqemulator account.

Me to Drowed (31 July, 05:13 PM)
Not gonna lose access to (necro) in any case - gd, she was expensive. So I'm keeping the emu. Let's hope he'll split off the bard and we can work something out valuewise for what I've put into the cleric. And I don't blame you for regretting selling her. Tho I cannot play a necro to save my soul. But she's pulled TONS of corpses - and matched my firepot cleric in great ways for a lot of people.
But I bought the emu, I think. I know I bought (necro) for sure...and kinda figured the rest was a package deal. That's where i'm squishy. Wonder how long it will take on this.
But maybe we can work something out on the levels/epic/etc., on (cleric), too. Put a ton into him.


Drowed to me (31 July, 10:01 PM) (missed the value here by a mile - also we lost a year somewhere)
The auction shows about 100kpp?? That's pretty cheap for a firepot bound necro. In any case, I'm not interested in Drowed. I have no claim to that account because I sold it. I want MY accounts back, because none of the sales, from the point at which she left my hands to the point at which she entered yours, did they ever include access to my other 2 accounts.
A package deal? You had no idea what was on the other two login server accounts when you bought Drowed. The person you bought her from had no idea either, because they are my accounts and never left my possession. And the only point at which you gained access was VERY recently because of the SMS recovery changes allowing you to take over control of my 2 accounts which were still attached to that eqemu acct. You're smart enough to understand that if the seller of Drowed had known that a 49 cleric and 54 bard were on the other accounts, they would have charged more.
I'm willing to be reasonable when it comes to your effort put into my cleric, but I'm not going to be punished for what comes down to someone else stealing my accounts for their own use.
So I'll be in contact with the GM's about the issue, and I'm really hoping that you have the integrity to cooperate in me recovering my two accounts from that eqemu account. I'm rather certain that if you're not, and this isn't agree'd upon on both of our sides, that neither of us will benefit as they'll likely ban the cleric as well when they check IP logs and see that someone else suddenly started logging into that account after 6+ years of me being the only one to do so...
And I'll gladly clear this up on my forum post as to not negatively impact your reputation... so long as we've reached an agreement as to what needs to happen.

Me to Drowed (31 July, 11:15 PM)
So deru finally answered my side of the petition. He said we should work something out so we should. Bard is not in question. He hasn't gotten back to me about splitting off accts, but let's leave that as setteled (yours).
You mentioned you had some value on Blue. Why don't you offer me something for my time/epic/crap and I'll tell Deru we've come to an arrangement and I'll see that you get (cleric) back as part of it.
I think we're mostly on the same page-ish?


Me to Drowed (31 July, 11:17 PM)
Will be easy if they can split the 2 onto a different emu for you. And stealing is pretty harsh. I'd been given to understand that when you buy the emu, you buy what's there. There was no malice of forethought on my part. We can get this figured out...always have in EQ and other MMOs (and in life). Let's just keep pushing on it.

Drowed to me (1 Aug, 01:19 AM) (now back to seven)
What other word would you use to describe it? If someone managed to obtain your main accounts in the same way, 7 years after making them, spent a month worth of time on one of them then demanded compensation (compensation for the epic/levels that HE originally offered if he were able to ban the cleric) to return them, how would you feel? Because I've got to tell you buddy, I've got a knot in my stomach over the thought of losing 7 REAL LIFE years worth of casual gameplay due to a stupid change to the account management system.
I also find it deplorable that the leader of a guild here, whose reputation was at stake, wouldn't be a little more truthful about what's being said in petitions right now. Because as per Deru, he claims you're disputing what is to be done with my accounts. And I've got to say, that if it comes down to it and I'm backed into a corner with nothing else to lose, I'll be forced to bring this forward to the community.

Me to Drowed: 1 Aug, 4:35 AM
You're not backed into a corner at all. Are you even reading what I've written to you? I've not been a bit untruthful about anything anywhere. In fact, I feel like I've been trying to do right by you throughout this whole thing. Wonder if Deru is reading too fast?
Also, you said you had some value on Blue to account for the time/items/epic I put into (cleric). You made that offer - in my last note to you, I was asking you to make good on that offer. Your move that way.
Here's what I've posted in the petition thread: Initial petition (yesterday 3:59pm my time):
Last year in July, I bought an account, complete with the emu - a L52 necro. Apparently the original owner sold the emu and the necro account and thought he/she was keeping the other LS accounts (tho unable to change the PWs).
When I associated the EMU with my SMS, I reset pws to all 3 accounts. I think I bought the emu, no?
(bard account) has been banned (I think he/she petitioned) - there's a 50s bard on red on that one
(cleric account) has a cleric on it that I've leveled and epiced and geared
(necro account) is the necro account
This person is harassing me about "stealing" accounts on an emu that I bought - and has locked one up already.
So...I don't know what to do. I don't mind giving the bard to the person (and even splitting it off ) but I did buy the emu and want to ensure that I keep the necro and cleric (xxxxx and xxxxxx).
Seems silly that someone can lock this down like that when they don't even have access.
Please advise - have PMs with that person and with the person from whom I bought the emu. Let me know what to do and please unlock (bard account) if you can.
I asked to unlock it b/c I'd changed the PW for you by that time (we'd discussed) and wanted you to have access. Then we exchanged a few PMs and I posted this at 4:47pm). After your offer yesterday at 4:42 (I'll gladly compensate you for the epic and other work put into him. I've got about 200k in assets left on blue, which includes a fungi tunic.), I posted this:
In talks with the original owner seeing if we can work something out about the cleric.
At 10:21, Eunomia posts this:
Here is the question:
Did you buy the account (bard account)?
Or did it become available to you with the new account access system?
At 10:49, I reply:
Became available when I reset.
As did the (cleric account) account. The (bard account) account I haven't done anything with. But I have leveled and epiced and purpled the cleric on (cleric account). So there's that.
I was purchasing (necro account) and the other 2 became available after the reset. But I thought I was buying the emu?
At 10:53 and 10:57, Deru posts:
Who was the original owner that you're in contact with...?
Am looking into this.
Oddly enough, Bardalicious is disputing a few of your points, namely what is to be done with the (cleric) and (bard) accounts. If the two of you could come to a clear, concise resolution without us, that'd be best, but if both of you could keep us updated on the situation I'd appreciate that.
At 11:07 and 11:09 I post
So I bought the EMU with the 3 on it (email, etc.).
Don't particularly care how you all handle this by policy. Am reluctant, tho, to lose the work I put in the cleric. Don't care about the bard at all.
Deru, can you split the accounts onto different emus?
I think we can work something out
At 11:12 I post this (realizing that I hadn't responded to a question):
Drowed claims to be the original owner and I don't have any reason to disbelieve that.
The necro (also drowed) is on (necro account). There's no dispute over that one.
I don't care about the bard on (bard account).
I do care about the cleric that I leveled and epiced and geared a little on (cleric account). Drowed (forum name) has some value on blue that he/she offered at one point in the conversation. I'll see what we can work out.

Then I send you a PM re your offer for compensation re the offer you made on compensation on (Cleric) (epic, etc.) and posted this at 11:18pm:
Made an overture to the buyer. If he/she can figure out compensation for work on the cleric, we're golden (and he/she has made overtures that way) - tho I would like those 2 split onto a different EMU if you can swing it.
Then one more post correcting seller to buyer.

That's where it sits now. Deru wants us to work something out and I thought an offer was on the table for compensation for the stuff and levels on (cleric).
I really think that when you sell an emu, you sell the emu. And I think I'm behaving very fairly about all of this. I'm asking to have both the Cleric and Bard split off to you.
As far as emus and changable passwords, etc., go, I won't even tag a 'toon whose owner isn't able to change the password b/c I don't want to gear up a toon in the guild that could potentially poof.
I'm also not sure where you think I'm not being up front about any of this. I feel like I'm bending over backward to get it straightened out.



Drowed to me: 2 Aug, 2:25 PM (new message title "Heads Up")
Just FYI I'm working 12 hour shifts all weekend, I won't really have the time to talk about this further til Monday. Though I don't see the point in making some static offer for compensation til we know if the GMs will even help split off the accounts .. And whether they ban it like they did the bard.
Also, since you're adamant about getting compensation (ccompensation that Bardalicious/Drowed originally offered - not something that I came up with) for your time invested on my cleric, I assume that if the GMs do not help and you keep it that you'll be compensating me for my time on him, right? Seems fair to me!
Anyways, I'll message agai Sunday night or Monday.

Me to Drowed, 2 Aug, 2:35PM
Yeah, for sure on the cleric thing. Btw, was your offer on the no-drops, levels. But...worst case -
I think you should have the bard no matter WHAT happens. And even if they're not willing to split off the account, my PW management thing (ONLY you have access and can change thru me any time) totally stands.
I'd be happy to make a new emu (or have you make a new emu) and PL a cleric up to that level and put the approximate (cleric) gear on him (I think I still hae all of it on him or in the bank). I'd even go so far as to advocate name swaps if they'd do it so you could keep the name. Might take me a couple of weeks to get the cleric to 49, but... I'd offer straight up cash (dun know how much it costs to PL a cleric) but I don't know if that would be considered buying an account...that's on an emu I have? WTF? all pretty grey and greasy that way. But I think if we bring something to the table...they'll bite.
GMs don't seem unreasonable at all. They want us to come to some sort of terms. I think that uncle rogean might be slow on the draw to split accounts. It's been 2 months for me waiting on raid forum access after the first kill that would grant us access. Just languishing that way.
I have a bitch of a week coming up. Have to drive 18 hours to a property my wife and I own - in the middle of fucking nowhere - and do some carpentry/unfucking. Rental manager has done a shitty job the last 7 years and we haven't seen it since. So my access may be spotty. I will get messages/online, but not sure if I'll be able to get in-game.
I want this to be a win/win and I think it can be. Knock these and other ideas around in your head. See where we land that makes sense.


Me to Drowed 2 Aug, 3:38PM
Oh, I've asked repeatedly to have the bard unbanned and have it given to you on another emu.
They haven't banned (cleric) yet I don't think - but he's rather on ice for me anyway until this is worked out. And I agree - would make NO sense if you had to drive (cleric) on my emu with me changing the PW if needed. That would be just stupid.
Might be our best play is a PL new cleric and name swap - that they might go for. And then just use the bard under the current emu (assuming we can get him unbanned) until rogean gets to the swapping?

Drowed to me: 2 Aug, 6:08 PM (nowhere did I say he'd need to drive the PL-ee...offer was for me to do it in its entirety - also making a play at getting the emu back, which I cannot do given the current ruleset (and couldn't un-SMS it if I wanted to))
That would be like me saying well... I want the cleric account without paying, but you can make a new cleric and I'll get him an epic in about 4 weeks.
Idk.. I appreciate you brainstorming ideas but I'm not too keen on that one considering even if you plvled a new cleric I would have to put in the effort to playing him while getting the plvl.. In the end I'm losing and again being punished for an absurd way of taking my accounts from me.
Wish you'd sell me the whole account and we could be done with this.

Drowed to Me: 6 Aug 1:10 AM (now more threats threats)
Well, the gms have stopped responding to me entirely, both via my petition and PMs so I'm guessing this is a win for you.
I'm pretty irate at the moment.
What's your thoughts on handing over the emu to me, me paying you for the work on (cleric) as I said I would, and you keeping access to (necro)? Similar to what you offered me, I'd change the password to that account for you as needed.
I'd also consider sharing the cleric with you as my playtime is limited with a full time job and college on top of that, but I'd want to talk on the phone before doing something like that.
Or I'd pay you for the cleric and the necro both and we could be done with it..
Please let me know asap ... being ignored by the gms while both of my accounts remain unplayable by me has pushed me to the point that I'm considering posting all of this for the community to see. I can't imagine anyone would be very happy to be put in the same situation I am because of a change Rogean made to account management... And I'd really hate to damage your rep as a guild leader by doing so.

Drowed to me 11 Aug 5:25 AM
I've seen you online yet you haven't taken the time to reply to me.
What's up?

Me to Drowed: 11 Aug 5:30 AM
Sorry. Very, very jammed up. Have a long reply in the works. That repop yesterday was painful, too.
But...am 1,200 miles from home right now on a phone connection working 16 hour days doing carpentry/landscaping on a hobby farm we're trying to sell. And will be at it another week. Add to that my brother's brain cancer came back with a vengeance (more surgery today) so family texts/emails/calls/etc., flying back and forth.
So, honestly, crafting the careful reply to you has been on the back burner. I think we're also waiting on the GMs to tell us what's possible (as far as splitting off accounts, renaming toons (maybe), and all the rest). I'll see if I can get something briefer hammered out to you this week. I know it's frustrating when priorities don't mesh, but I so far buried right now I cannot even give Omni the care it needs and am relying on people to step up and keep the train rolling. Sorry to be so slow, but I only have so many resources - stretched to the breaking point right now.

Then later yesterday he starts this shitshow (at a time at which, I suspect, he thought I wouldn't be able to respond).

Finally, I even asked the staff to do this to take him out of the picture entirely - because I was getting nowhere with this guy (from my petition 1 Aug, 11:28AM)
Are you able to move no-drops (epic & planar) and exp onto another toon? That would solve it w/o his intervention, I guess. I've wasted far too much time and sick guts on this already. It's really hard to negotiate with someone who has no desire to do anything but escalate things.

I've got no idea what to do with this person. I'm not gonna give or sell him the necro back (which is what he's obviously angling for). I cannot get the cleric and bard split off. He doesn't want a replacement cleric. I'm at a loss.

[Rhambuk]

This guy is just putting the blame on a bunch of people for his retarded decisions, don't think he realizes that 95% of people would instantly tell him to fuck off.

The fact you're offering him a complete replacement toon is beyond what most would do.


you are ridiculous

[zanderklocke]

Can you just give him the password to cleric and bard...assuming he compensates you for your time? Sounds like he was going to compensate you for your time on the cleric.

[Bardalicious]

Don't mind Bazia, he's clearly so disillusioned by red that he actually believes that the player base there is composed of normal people. So, I suppose his statement may ring true if we were talking PvP server players only being that 95%. ;)

[Bardalicious]

Pan, I really don't know how you think posting all of that could possibly make you look any better in all of this. Also, I screen capped my entire petition thread before deru deleted it. So if you really need me to discredit another one of your desperate attempts to undermine my intentions just to save face I sure can. Not once in my petition did I ever ask for access back to Drowed. Do I miss that character? Sure! Would I ever attempt some shady ploy to steal her back from the owner of that account? Nope. Only one of us fits that bill...

[Rekrul]

There's a difference between knowing a character is yours, and going into the logs to prove it. I have no need to discredit assisting you - frankly, I don't need to give a reason at all, but the big sticking point here is that we never supported account trades, and all trades were done at your own risk. I'm not going to spend a bunch of time digging up logs (which I would need to do to before going to Rogean), then going to Rogean and asking him to go digging for logs (instead of spending his P99 time on improving the box) just to verify everything and reset your account. And yes, we do have to verify, regardless of what we "know".

Again, for something we do not support, have never supported, and never will support. There are other people out there who have problems that weren't a result of their own poor judgement that we need to help.

I understand the frustration, but you have to look at this objectively from our viewpoint - we need to take the whole picture into account, not just as it pertains to Bardalicious and Cloki. There is so much work to do and so little time to do it that we have to turn people away when necessary.

If you'd like to pursue the matter further, you are welcome to do so by messaging Rogean - but I guarantee that not only will his answer be the same as mine, but you would have gotten faster results by just taking Cloki's offer (which, IMO, is generous considering he really isn't obligated to do anything at all).

Good luck.

Its generous? He stole his fucking account.

[Swish]

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/69852/3496615-inbeforethelock.gif

[Tuffpuppy]

GMs having no action after this dude is stealing accounts. Not surprised there. Just because there was a change in account recovery doesn't give this guy the right to change the password and play an account that isn't his. GMs should make special cases out of this SMS change because honestly it took way too many years to put this change in. Doesn't seem fair.

[Daywolf]

Its generous? He stole his fucking account.
After reading the first half of Pans transcript (putting things into perspective), I'd say he's in the right technically and see why the GM's are ignoring the issue. imo it's false advertisement, the seller should have mentioned that it was a 'shared account'. The emu account imo is a single account, and you get to make three sub accounts attached to that. And that being to the original buyer, and then passed to yet another buyer, Pan. Technically, the seller goofed big time, and I don't see as having any real claim to the account. I don't see it as "stole".

But then if originally advertised as a 'shared account' I don't even see how that would make a difference, especially with the chance it could be sold again. That is just the gamble that the seller took, rolled and lost, for a few plats. Roll a new cleric, stop trying to get the accounts banned.

/thread

[Bardalicious]

I take solace in the fact that there are people reasonable enough to see how unreasonable this situation is. If nothing else comes of this thread, let it serve as a warning to others that the GM's have no real intention of working to help you if something goes wrong.

Oh, and also that Pan probably shouldn't be a leader of any guild that hopes to present itself as respectable.

[Bardalicious]

After reading the first half of Pans transcript (putting things into perspective)

Is that the part where he's acting polite to me in PMs but petitioning at the same time to GM's that I'm harassing him and acting shocked that someone else could possibly have one of the accounts he stole locked by the GMs?

Heh.

[fastboy21]

I take solace in the fact that there are people reasonable enough to see how unreasonable this situation is. If nothing else comes of this thread, let it serve as a warning to others that the GM's have no real intention of working to help you if something goes wrong.


I've had GMs help me more than a few times. I don't think I'm unique in that respect. So, while I get your frustration, its just not true that "GM's have no intention of working to help you if something goes wrong."---all your situation proves is that they have no intention of helping you in this situation for specific reasons. Extrapolating past that is not valid.

You might be right about being the rightful owners of these disputed accounts.

There really isn't enough information provided on the agreement(s) made during the sales that took place. Without knowing the exact terms of each deal (of which there are several chained together to bring the story to this point) or what the guidelines are for enforcement then there is really no way of sorting it out correctly each and every single time. The problem with resolving cases like this (not just yours) is that the type of evidence needed to deprive someone of account ownership has to be EXTREMELY high for the GMs to intervene; often this type of evidence simply can't/doesn't exist. But the precedent of erring on the side of caution before forcing ownership of accounts to change hands makes prudent sense to me.

I've been on this server from the beginning. Transferring accounts has been, at best, a very risky and not officially supported marketplace by the staff. Situations like these are certainly part of the reason why the prudent decision of the staff was to make account sales for virtual goods against the rules.

There is an interesting question about the SMS changes creating what were probably unintended issues for past-sold accounts that would have previously been insulated at the time of the sale now being unprotected.

The only lesson here for other players is really not to give out account information, ever.

[Daywolf]

Is that the part where he's acting polite to me in PMs but petitioning at the same time to GM's that I'm harassing him and acting shocked that someone else could possibly have one of the accounts he stole locked by the GMs?

Heh.I'm not basing my judgement (in the forum of public opinion) off of character, be it whatever he said or what you are saying here against him. I'm just looking at the technicality of the issue. My highschool days of judgement by popularity is long behind me, long since graduated into the real world.

However, he did make an offer, far beyond any requirement on his part, which really is no requirement in this case. Personally, I would have never offered as he did, I know that, I never account share for many reasons.

If you start a new cleric now, you may have it to lvl50 by the time velious is released here. Nothing personal against you, myself I'd just walk away from it and re-roll.

Better lucks.

[Glenzig]

I take solace in the fact that there are people reasonable enough to see how unreasonable this situation is. If nothing else comes of this thread, let it serve as a warning to others that the GM's have no real intention of working to help you if something goes wrong.

Oh, and also that Pan probably shouldn't be a leader of any guild that hopes to present itself as respectable.

You knew full well when you sold the account that any resultant inconvenience to yourself was not going to be resolved by a GM. Account trades and sales were always at the seller/buyers risk. You're only a victim of your own poor decisions. Sure Cloki could give you the account back if he wanted, but he doesn't want to. That was part of the risk you took when you sold the master account. That's why GMs won't get involved in these disputes, its too much work just to undo someone's mistake that they were already warned not to make. Quit trying to vilify the staff for your poor judgment.

[kaev]

The only lesson here for other players is really not to give out account information, ever.

^^ Seriously.

Even before account trading was banned the staff made it clear that it was unsupported and at your own risk. Whatever anybody's opinion on how Cloki has handled this (I am not a fan, it seems rules lawyery and therefore sleazy to me), OP fucked up and his whining about the consequences of his own bad choices get no sympathy from me.

[Erati]

heres an on top / off topic question

with this discussion I went to look at my account info and such to check PWs but could not find a single place to change my EQemulator PW or even email

Did that feature just get completely removed ?

My emulator is linked to my SMS etc but I am just curious if I cant ever change my emulator log in info again

[Rais]

Pretty sure everything was moved over. You can recover your eqemu password from that site still. Just enter the wrong info, and it will direct you to recover account info.

[Bardalicious]

That's just my issue with this: there's compounding evidence in my favor that I owned both of those accounts ever since their creation. 98% of the IP logs associated with them come from the state I currently, and have lived in, for a very long time (again.. aside from 6 months in which I lived out of state). A very menial amount of effort would need to be put in to geolocate the IPs. Or, hell, just match the ones that accessed my accounts with the ones that have logged into my forum accounts (since, ya know, my forum account names are the character names in question anyways).

I'd say that Deru admitting to assisting me with an issue with this same cleric account in the past combined with Pan admitting that he SMS password recovered both of those accounts to gain access makes it pretty darn clear whom they belonged to.

But, that's not even the issue here. What it comes down to is a rather absurd history of inequity when it comes to GM rulings and player assistance. Despite the fact that Rogean himself stated that "the original owner of an eqemu account will always be considered the owner of said account" when he banned account sales, the GM's here have chosen to blatantly ignore that fact as it pertains to this situation. Hell, I not once even asked for eqemu access to the account I sold as I'm morally above taking what doesn't belong to me. I only asked for a little helping hand to secure my two login server accounts as I saw what was coming as a result of the absurd change to account management.

[Rentlez]

you sold your eqemu account. therefore everything on that account is no longer yours, you fucked up, deal with it

[Bardalicious]

If you start a new cleric now, you may have it to lvl50 by the time velious is released here. Nothing personal against you, myself I'd just walk away from it and re-roll.

Yeah, I have no interest in playing here now. QQ for me, I know I know.

On a related note, I'll be giving away what I have left for items on P99 in the coming days, which if you kept up with this thread you'd know equates to about 200kpp in items - including a fungi tunic.

I'd rather someone deserving receives a little helping hand than to have to pay someone like Cloki to be able to play my own character again.

[quido]

can i have some stuff please

[Bardalicious]

Fuck yeah Jeremy, you seem like a good chap in need and deserving of some pixels.. :p

[indiscriminate_hater]

Yeah, I have no interest in playing here now. QQ for me, I know I know... I have...about 200kpp in items - including a fungi tunic.


master troll or most oblivious asshole on P99

[Poetic]

Me to Drowed (31 july, 01:43 PM)
Yes, when I bought the account more than a year ago, the eqemulator credentials were included. I wouldn't buy an account that didn't have the credentials attached. I changed the eqemulator email and credentials the day I bought the account. It is now attached to my SMS info, too.
What's at issue here?
Okay so here is my issue. I feel like you are pretending to be extremely naive on how EMU Emulator works and about account sales in general. It is obvious that you know you purchased the necromancer account. When you changed to the SMS, and found you had access to the other accounts; you had to KNOW that those weren't included with the Sale. This is extremely shady. You knew what you were doing.

As for giving over the EMU and keeping login accounts attached. Several people did this when account trading was legal, because the accounts were still protected by password and without the actually login password to the account itself, there would be no issues, Until the Login server change.

That said, I do think Pan is trying to make this right, whether it's just to save his rep or not. Take him up on the PL cleric. They aren't going to move the cleric to a different EMU/account for you. You aren't handling this situation that great either by pissing off Gms and Pan, but I see why you are upset. Take the PL and let this die.

[Rais]

That's just my issue with this: there's compounding evidence in my favor that I owned both of those accounts ever since their creation. 98% of the IP logs associated with them come from the state I currently, and have lived in, for a very long time (again.. aside from 6 months in which I lived out of state). A very menial amount of effort would need to be put in to geolocate the IPs. Or, hell, just match the ones that accessed my accounts with the ones that have logged into my forum accounts (since, ya know, my forum account names are the character names in question anyways).

I'd say that Deru admitting to assisting me with an issue with this same cleric account in the past combined with Pan admitting that he SMS password recovered both of those accounts to gain access makes it pretty darn clear whom they belonged to.

But, that's not even the issue here. What it comes down to is a rather absurd history of inequity when it comes to GM rulings and player assistance. Despite the fact that Rogean himself stated that "the original owner of an eqemu account will always be considered the owner of said account" when he banned account sales, the GM's here have chosen to blatantly ignore that fact as it pertains to this situation. Hell, I not once even asked for eqemu access to the account I sold as I'm morally above taking what doesn't belong to me. I only asked for a little helping hand to secure my two login server accounts as I saw what was coming as a result of the absurd change to account management.

You just don't get it. You sold your eqemu account and everything attached to it. The staff has said since day one giving out your info or selling your account was all on you. There is no obligation for the staff to even help you. So stop trying to blame the staff for your mistake. You made your choice to sell accounts, live with the fact it was your choice.
Asking the staff to right your wrong will open a Pandora box of people crying about accounts they sold, gave away etc. If they help you for being a retard, they must help others just the same.

This guy threw you a bone about working it out even after the moment you sold your account you gave up all rights to it. Stop copy pasting messages from when the server opened saying original owner of the account will be considered the owner. Shit has changed so much over the years that you can pull over 100 different posts from all staff that contradict everything due to all the changes.

[chief]

so this guy sells the eq emu but continues to play a character on a diff account under the same eq emu? lawl

[Erati]

so this guy sells the eq emu but continues to play a character on a diff account under the same eq emu? lawl

many people did this


the login servers were pretty much protected regardless what the new EMU owner did with the EMU information

[Bardalicious]

master troll or most oblivious asshole on P99

Sorry - who are you and what are you getting at?

You just don't get it. You sold your eqemu account and everything attached to it. The staff has said since day one giving out your info or selling your account was all on you. There is no obligation for the staff to even help you.

Really? When was the precedent set that selling an eqemu account when it was legal meant you sold everything attached to it? On the contrary, it only included what you wanted it to include under the way account management worked.

Stop copy pasting messages from when the server opened saying original owner of the account will be considered the owner. Shit has changed so much over the years that you can pull over 100 different posts from all staff that contradict everything due to all the changes.

Yeah... that quote is from last year actually. And from the owner of this project. You know, the person whose word should be final in matters such as these.

[khanable]

in4fungi

[Pan]

Yeah, I have no interest in playing here now. QQ for me, I know I know.

On a related note, I'll be giving away what I have left for items on P99 in the coming days, which if you kept up with this thread you'd know equates to about 200kpp in items - including a fungi tunic.

I'd rather someone deserving receives a little helping hand than to have to pay someone like Cloki to be able to play my own character again.

Now you're just being entirely disingenuous.

I asked the staff several times to split off the bard and cleric to a different emu under terms that YOU proposed. And on other terms, too - that would have given ownership of both as they were. See here. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1572950&postcount=119)

When they chose not to intervene, I re-offered an identical (sans name) replacement cleric (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1571861&postcount=45) (which is what you asked me for but will not now accept - see first link in this post) and access to the bard as a kludged solution.

You've brought nothing substantive to the table apart from re-acquiring the emu (which I am unwilling to give up because you sold it and I bought it eventually).

[Daywolf]

Yeah, I have no interest in playing here now. QQ for me, I know I know.

On a related note, I'll be giving away what I have left for items on P99 in the coming days, which if you kept up with this thread you'd know equates to about 200kpp in items - including a fungi tunic.

I'd rather someone deserving receives a little helping hand than to have to pay someone like Cloki to be able to play my own character again.
Nah, I don't want any. I'll stick to what I said, means more to me. But thx for the bribe, hope things work out for you better in my little pony online or wherever you're going :rolleyes:

[Man0warr]

Cloki, just because you can do something horrible and steal two accounts that you didn't purchase, doesn't mean that you should. You should thank him for you being able to use those accounts when you never should have been able to and give him back what is rightfully his and was never yours to begin with. It shouldn't matter that you upgraded the gear or leveled the toons. They weren't yours to do that to in the first place. You acquired the information in a shady manner. Do the right thing, let him have his characters back.

But he did offer to give them back (or in the cleric's case, PL a new cleric with epic and matching gear).

Not saying it wasn't shady to reset the passwords when the choice was made available but at least he is trying to make it right.

This is why GMs said account sales weren't supported and eventually got banned folks - no one wants to deal with this shit.

[fastboy21]

Really? When was the precedent set that selling an eqemu account when it was legal meant you sold everything attached to it? On the contrary, it only included what you wanted it to include under the way account management worked.



Exactly. But this is the sticking point for me. It isn't just about this particular incident between you and Pan:

How can anyone prove what was wanted between two parties when the transaction took place? This is essentially the terms of a contract.

If you engage in RL business deals without a written clear contract you are likely to be out of luck if you ever need to have a court enforce it.

You would have to prove at each transaction (it seems the account information may have been sold several times before reaching Pan) what was and what was not specifically agreed on. Can you do this? Can anyone do this? Most people I know who sold accounts didn't really think ahead and make great records while doing it.

I guess its possible if you have very good records and the GM staff has time to invest in verifying it...but for what? if I were you, and I really just wanted to play EQ, I would take the 49 cleric PL and then work with the GMs on getting a name swap done. Its not like there are thousands of dollars at stake on the table here...you are getting everything you wanted except the name, and you can prob get that down the line if you don't act rudely towards the GMs.

[Rais]

Sorry - who are you and what are you getting at?



Really? When was the precedent set that selling an eqemu account when it was legal meant you sold everything attached to it? On the contrary, it only included what you wanted it to include under the way account management worked.



Yeah... that quote is from last year actually. And from the owner of this project. You know, the person whose word should be final in matters such as these.

I can play the quote game also.
Here is a good one
A post about splitting toons off accounts. So a post he made in the past should always apply even if changes have had happened? If so let's use your logic and start splitting toons off accounts.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11218&highlight=account#post11218

Rogean:
Put a petition in, give char names, account names, and when you'll be online so a GM can contact you to verify authenticity of the transfer.


Honestly how could you purchase an account and not secure the eqemulator forum associated with it?

Their fault for stupidity.

Sounds like the reverse happened and still applies.

[Bardalicious]

Nah, I don't want any. I'll stick to what I said, means more to me. But thx for the bribe, hope things work out for you better in my little pony online or wherever you're going :rolleyes:

Lol, don't flatter yourself pal. I wasn't offering you anything.

[arsenalpow]

But he did offer to give them back (or in the cleric's case, PL a new cleric with epic and matching gear).

Not saying it wasn't shady to reset the passwords when the choice was made available but at least he is trying to make it right.

This is why GMs said account sales weren't supported and eventually got banned folks - no one wants to deal with this shit.

I think resetting the password using the new system reset all attached LS accounts, so the cleric/bard were collateral damage. The issue is that cloki just scooped up the accounts assuming they were abandoned. That's where he fucked up.

[Rais]

basically Cloki bought a car from a used car lot. when he opened the glove box, there happen to be a set of keys that someone accidentally left in there.
Lots of other stupid shit

If you want to go full retard Anthrax just state in the glove box was 2 extra titles to cars with blank spots for the owner to sign and claim rights to it. That is closer yet just as retarded as your essay of typed out hatred towards someone leaving your guild.

[Rais]

I think resetting the password using the new system reset all attached LS accounts, so the cleric/bard were collateral damage. The issue is that cloki just scooped up the accounts assuming they were abandoned. That's where he fucked up.

Didn't work for mine like that. I had to reset each one.

[khanable]

I just did a reset for my shaman that I forgot, it definitely reset every account tied to my forum account

Which was annoying

side note: is this thread rnf worthy yet?

[Uteunayr]

Didn't work for mine like that. I had to reset each one.

When I did an SMS reset on my primary EQ Emu, every single login account server's password was changed. It was not done one at a time as it was in the past.

[Rais]

I just did a reset for my shaman that I forgot, it definitely reset every account tied to my forum account

Which was annoying

side note: is this thread rnf worthy yet?

I just tried it myself also. Didn't do it for mine. Maybe because I donated more money than you and get special privileges? Who knows. maybe a bug.

[arsenalpow]

If you want to go full retard Anthrax just state in the glove box was 2 extra titles to cars with blank spots for the owner to sign and claim rights to it. That is closer yet just as retarded as your essay of typed out hatred towards someone leaving your guild.

Sure, change it to titles instead of car keys and the story makes sense. I know you like to poke anthrax for his usual tinfoil hattery but Ant is being pretty logical here.

[Bruno]

Really? When was the precedent set that selling an eqemu account when it was legal meant you sold everything attached to it? On the contrary, it only included what you wanted it to include under the way account management worked.


The fact that you see nothing wrong in selling an eqemu account and expect to play toons on it with some guy you don't really even know blows my mind. You clearly are very naive. Literally every person on the internet is aware of the exact consequence that happened to you, that's why people do not do it.

[arsenalpow]

I'm just saying, if you buy a tink bag from a guy in EC for 5k and it has a cloak of flames in it and a fungi tunic, what would you do?

A- say nothing and enjoy your new toys like cloki did
or
B- tell the guy he made a mistake and give the items back like someone with honor would do.

The issue is that Cloki can free of charge hand the accounts back (because it's now illegal to receive plat for an account) or try to make it right (which he has offered)

If I'm placing blame is 60% OP's fault for selling the emu info regardless of the previous circumstances pertaining to password resets and 40% Cloki's fault for claiming the accounts after the SMS reset.

[Glenzig]

Why are people trying to make analogies for this situation? There is no need to. This is a situation that has nothing to do with houses or used cars or any of that junk. This is a situation where account trading was tollerated for a time by the staff, but never supported by the staff. Everyone that sold or traded accounts knew that they were taking all of.the risks associated with that action. They still did it, they made dumb decisions, and the staff has no obligation to settle these disputes for anyone. Live with it.

[Bardalicious]

I can play the quote game also.
Here is a good one
A post about splitting toons off accounts. So a post he made in the past should always apply even if changes have had happened? If so let's use your logic and start splitting toons off accounts.

Congrats pal, you found a quote from FIVE years ago. As if that holds any relevance to the quote in question or the conversation at hand.

So, you're making the claim (unsubstantiated) that an eqemu account sale includes all associated login server accounts, despite the account management system, up until a few months ago out of the 6 or whatever years P99 has been up, proving otherwise in that you only controlled the login server accounts you had passwords for. Would you care to provide some relevant sources for that claim? Because surely a large number of players that sold accounts in the past would disagree.

You're also making the claim that we should discredit a quote from the owner of the project because it may be outdated, despite it being posted only last year. Would you care to provide a more recent quote in which we should be going off of?

[drktmplr12]

terrible analogy followed by nonsense based on said analogy

Terrible analogy is terrible. This is more like a shipping crate with three cars in it and Corki insisted he is taking ownership of the crate including all contents contained within.

This entire thread is, in my opinion, exactly the reason the staff made the decision to not get involved in account transfers, sales, password sharing, etc. I commend the staff for not getting involved and Pan for ever offering any consolation for your tears.

To me.. it appears the staff is always willing to help within the established guidelines. I think this falls specifically outside the scope of those guidelines. Trying to demonize the staff unreasonable and fucking disrespectful.

Sorry bard you lost something you worked hard and long on.. but you had to of realized this was a distinct possibility when you handed out the eqemu info in exchanged for plat or cash or whatever it was.

[arsenalpow]

Why would I be mad at Cloki? He executed a guild split to work the rotation system as planned. I don't see why all the guilds aren't doing the same thing? We are currently under the process of splitting again to have a third rotation spot. New website coming soon.
You realize some mongo will actually believe that right? Stop it.

If the staff helped to fix this situation it would open a fucking Pandora's box of account assistance. Better to let OP suffer to set the correct precedence.

[drktmplr12]

Better to let OP suffer to set the correct precedence.

[Glenzig]

Congrats pal, you found a quote from FIVE years ago. As if that holds any relevance to the quote in question or the conversation at hand.

So, you're making the claim (unsubstantiated) that an eqemu account sale includes all associated login server accounts, despite the account management system, up until a few months ago out of the 6 or whatever years P99 has been up, proving otherwise in that you only controlled the login server accounts you had passwords for. Would you care to provide some relevant sources for that claim? Because surely a large number of players that sold accounts in the past would disagree.

You're also making the claim that we should discredit a quote from the owner of the project because it may be outdated, despite it being posted only last year. Would you care to provide a more recent quote in which we should be going off of?

So if I sold an account 5 years ago and decided now that I really regretted it and wanted it back, all I would have to do is prove that I owned it 5 years ago? You realize what that would lead to right? Or are you so narrow minded that you can't see past the situation you put yourself in to see how it would affect the staff and the server if all such claims were honored?

[Daywolf]

Lol, don't flatter yourself pal. I wasn't offering you anything.Of course not now, I didn't change my position. Anyway it's probably more aimed at people to post in your favor here and now, than to those that would stick to their integrity over an already established position not in your favor. Even if I did change my position, which I wouldn't, or even to someone that would accept your bribe for help and post in your favor here, it's doubtful you would ever deliver. Especially if you did manage to start an uprising and bend the will of the GM's to your favor over it, get your sold account back, at which point upon wining the case you would have no reason to deliver your bribes to anyone.

It only leaves me with the opinion of pettiness in your case. People are but to be bought and sold, bent to your will as you can afford or at least promise. I think the situation stinks regarding the account dilemma, but in your case maybe it is deserving, or unavoidable. People get on that road of blunders and just cant seem to get off. Blunder after blunder after blunder etc. At some point in your future journeys, you'll stop and think things out first, analyze the situation and it's numerable possible outcomes and choose your path more wisely, less greedily. But some never get there, and just try to pass on blame off of themselves to others, manipulate what they can manage, then move to the next blunder.

Personally, I'd just ban you and lock the thread, help you out the door anyway. Maybe you would take it as a life lesson at some point... or not. But luckily I'm not a GM :o

[Bardalicious]

So if I sold an account 5 years ago and decided now that I really regretted it and wanted it back, all I would have to do is prove that I owned it 5 years ago? You realize what that would lead to right? Or are you so narrow minded that you can't see past the situation you put yourself in to see how it would affect the staff and the server if all such claims were honored?

Are you so narrow minded that you can't see that the login server account that was sold with the eqemu account is entirely different than the two login server accounts that weren't? There's a huge difference between me attempting to take back the necromancer account this long after I sold it, and another thing ENTIRELY to have two accounts stolen from me that have YEARS full of IP logs proving that they belonged to me and attempting to get some help in getting them back.

Again.. there is irrefutable proof that I was the owner of those two accounts up until a month ago when Cloki's IP started accessing them when he SMS recovered the passwords.

I realize some people have become quite jaded as a result of the internet. But wow. It's not hard to see what would have been the right thing to do in this case even with minimal effort by the GMs.

[Bardalicious]

Of course not now, I didn't change my position. Anyway it's probably more aimed at people to post in your favor here and now, than to those that would stick to their integrity over an already established position not in your favor. Even if I did change my position, which I wouldn't, or even to someone that would accept your bribe for help and post in your favor here, it's doubtful you would ever deliver. Especially if you did manage to start an uprising and bend the will of the GM's to your favor over it, get your sold account back, at which point upon wining the case you would have no reason to deliver your bribes to anyone.

It only leaves me with the opinion of pettiness in your case. People are but to be bought and sold, bent to your will as you can afford or at least promise. I think the situation stinks regarding the account dilemma, but in your case maybe it is deserving, or unavoidable. People get on that road of blunders and just cant seem to get off. Blunder after blunder after blunder etc. At some point in your future journeys, you'll stop and think things out first, analyze the situation and it's numerable possible outcomes and choose your path more wisely, less greedily. But some never get there, and just try to pass on blame off of themselves to others, manipulate what they can manage, then move to the next blunder.

Personally, I'd just ban you and lock the thread, help you out the door anyway. Maybe you would take it as a life lesson at some point... or not. But luckily I'm not a GM :o

Lol? Can anyone decipher what this guy is rambling on about? Who in the hell was I trying to bribe? Just... what?

[Bardalicious]

Wasn't Omni formed a month ago?

Uhh, I have no idea.

[Samoht]

Are you so narrow minded that you can't see that the login server account that was sold with the eqemu account is entirely different than the two login server accounts that weren't?

I believe that you're actually the one that's narrow-minded here. Other people had the awareness to create new EQ Emu accounts for login accounts they intended to sell. Cloki had the foresight to acquire the EQ Emu login for Drowed when he bought the account.

That doesn't excuse him for reclaiming the other login accounts as his own when he discovered their existence, but you are at least halfway to blame here (or even 60% as Chest would indicate).

This is more like a shipping crate with three cars in it and Corki insisted he is taking ownership of the crate including all contents contained within.

But Cloki didn't just buy a car from within the shipping container, he bought the entire shipping container for the purpose of obtaining one of the cars inside of it. Lo and behold: it contained more treasures than he expected! He could have returned them to their rightful owners, but chose to use them until he got caught and is now treading water for it.

[arsenalpow]

Except cloki can't return the other two accounts by themselves without returning the emu as well which means he's giving away a firepot necro that he purchased for plat.

Staff assistance has to be ruled out, it sets the worst possible precedence.

OP and Cloki could just be pals, Cloki can set the passwords to whatever OP wants agree to not log into them, but sounds like that's not acceptable for the OP.

[DarkwingDuck]

basically Cloki bought a car from a used car lot. when he opened the glove box, there happen to be a set of keys that someone accidentally left in there.

These keys wouldn't normally cause any trouble for the owner of them, because they were just extra and whoever found them wouldn't know what car they belonged to.

But Cloki, with his divine wisdom, petitioned the car dealer to find out what cars these keys belonged to and the shady dealer gave him that information. Cloki then went over and stole the other two cars because he thinks he owns them now just because he acquired the keys and information to be able to drive them.

The owners of the cars are upset because they never intended to sell all three cars. They only intended to sell the one car. Cloki knew that he didn't buy the other two cars and the only reason he has them is because of some technicality rules lawyering bologna.

Cloki, just because you can do something horrible and steal two accounts that you didn't purchase, doesn't mean that you should. You should thank him for you being able to use those accounts when you never should have been able to and give him back what is rightfully his and was never yours to begin with. It shouldn't matter that you upgraded the gear or leveled the toons. They weren't yours to do that to in the first place. You acquired the information in a shady manner. Do the right thing, let him have his characters back.


Not that i give two shits, but this makes the most sense out of the entire thread.
since I can't log onto my epic cleric due to the SMS thing (thanks rogean..) and not even going to bother petitioning here. I'm only out .. 120k... But than being 60% of all my value kind of hurts :)

If I see anyone log on JAIGE I will trace u and a bloodbath will insue heheh

[Bardalicious]

I believe that you're actually the one that's narrow-minded here. Other people had the awareness to create new EQ Emu accounts for login accounts they intended to sell. Cloki had the foresight to acquire the EQ Emu login for Drowed when he bought the account.

That doesn't excuse him for reclaiming the other login accounts as his own when he discovered their existence, but you are at least halfway to blame here (or 40% as Chest would indicate).



But Cloki didn't just buy a car from within the shipping container, he bought the entire shipping container for the purpose of obtaining one of the cars inside of it. Lo and behold: it contained more treasures than he expected! He could have returned them to their rightful owners, but chose to use them until he got caught and is now treading water for it.


Regardless of what people may personally think about standard account security measures, up until the recent introduction of the SMS system, there was no way for an owner of an eqemu account to in any way impact an attached login server account without the password. Period.

Being that we went 5+ years without that introduction, it was a reasonable belief by me that those accounts would remain safe. And when I saw the impending changes being made that would affect said security, I made a petition in good faith that the GM's might spare a moment of their time to assist me.

Fast forward 4 or so months later, no help was given as a preemptive measure to save my accounts and no help was ever intended to be given after they were stolen.

Now, not only have I been punished by this change this many years after the project opened, the person that weaseled their way into possession of my accounts is being rewarded by being able to keep them. I'd actually pack my bags and leave content at this point if they'd ban them for being obviously stolen accounts. But to allow the hard work I sowed to be reaped by that person is a horrible precedence to set.

[Glenzig]

Are you so narrow minded that you can't see that the login server account that was sold with the eqemu account is entirely different than the two login server accounts that weren't? There's a huge difference between me attempting to take back the necromancer account this long after I sold it, and another thing ENTIRELY to have two accounts stolen from me that have YEARS full of IP logs proving that they belonged to me and attempting to get some help in getting them back.

Again.. there is irrefutable proof that I was the owner of those two accounts up until a month ago when Cloki's IP started accessing them when he SMS recovered the passwords.

I realize some people have become quite jaded as a result of the internet. But wow. It's not hard to see what would have been the right thing to do in this case even with minimal effort by the GMs.

But you keep quoting Rogean saying the original owner will always be considered the owner in an attempt to legitimize your claim. I'm not worried about how badly you screwed up your 3 different accounts. What you're saying is that if someone can prove that they were the original owner of an account, that regardless of what has been done as far as trading/selling of said account, that it should always go back to the original owner. That would be a horrible scenario.

[Samoht]

Regardless of what people may personally think about standard account security measures, up until the recent introduction of the SMS system, there was no way for an owner of an eqemu account to in any way impact an attached login server account without the password. Period.

Being that we went 5+ years without that introduction, it was a reasonable belief by me that those accounts would remain safe.

As I stated before, other people had the awareness and foresight to work with the expectation that having the EQ Emu was the only way to maintain future ownership of the accounts. You're practically the only one that was working outside of this expectation. Whether you were too flippant or just plain lazy, it doesn't matter.

You should apologize to Cloki and see if he will still PL a new cleric for you. In reviewing the PM logs, it seems that he was the one that brought up the name issue, not you, so I don't believe for one minute that that was ever a concern of yours.

I think Cloki has already apologized profusely and is ready to take blame for his part in this. You're just prolonging your own suffering at this point.

[Bardalicious]

Staff assistance has to be ruled out, it sets the worst possible precedence.

Why is everyone assuming this? I can understand in the case of someone trying to steal back an account they sold years ago. I could even understand in the case of someone trying to claim they owned accounts attached to an eqemu account someone else owned if they hadn't actively used them.

But these two accounts were ones that I had been actively using and logging into up until a month or so ago when Cloki managed to password reset them and take them over from me. In the first two cases, it would be easy to see that the person trying to reclaim/steal the accounts hadn't had access to them in a long, long time via IP addresses. And in MY case, it was obvious I DID have access to them up until Cloki SMS reset the passwords and started playing them himself.

How would it set the worst possible precedence in this situation?

[fastboy21]

Regardless of what people may personally think about standard account security measures, up until the recent introduction of the SMS system, there was no way for an owner of an eqemu account to in any way impact an attached login server account without the password. Period.

Being that we went 5+ years without that introduction, it was a reasonable belief by me that those accounts would remain safe. And when I saw the impending changes being made that would affect said security, I made a petition in good faith that the GM's might spare a moment of their time to assist me.

Fast forward 4 or so months later, no help was given as a preemptive measure to save my accounts and no help was ever intended to be given after they were stolen.

Now, not only have I been punished by this change this many years after the project opened, the person that weaseled their way into possession of my accounts is being rewarded by being able to keep them. I'd actually pack my bags and leave content at this point if they'd ban them for being obviously stolen accounts. But to allow the hard work I sowed to be reaped by that person is a horrible precedence to set.

There are some interesting questions raised in this thread regarding login account ownership vs. eqemu account ownership, pre-rule "grandfathered" account sales, etc.

As for your particular situation though, you have really only lost a 49 cleric. Be happy your losses were so small and move on imo. Take the PL offer. Work with the GMs for the name transfer. Let the staff chew on the questions that came up...and you can go back to just playing EQ (i.e. having fun).

I realize that you have said you're done here...and, to some degree, I would guess you are just venting. To some degree, I can see how you are unhappy with the staff not being able to assist you. But, when the dust settles (life after forum quest), p99 is by far the best place for classic EQ anywhere.

[kaev]

Regardless of what people may personally think about standard account security measures, up until the recent introduction of the SMS system, there was no way for an owner of an eqemu account to in any way impact an attached login server account without the password. Period.

Regardless what you say, you fucked up all on your own and most of us don't give a shit. Sure, Cloki pulled some rules lawyery bullshit that reflects badly on him, as it should. But you're whining about a situation in which the only person actually to blame is you. You chose to sell the account with the eqemu info despite there being two other accounts attached to the emu and despite the fact that staff has always refused to support account sales even when they were allowed. That was short-sighted, greedy, and stupid. You shot yourself in the foot and now with this thread you've stuffed the other foot firmly into your mouth.

[Samoht]

I can understand in the case of someone trying to steal back an account they sold years ago.

Oh, man. This just turned to gold. If you understand your situation so well, why do you keep arguing from the other side? Are you just paying devil's advocate?

You sold the EQ Emu and all accounts associated with it. It's over. Done. Move on.

[arsenalpow]

Why is everyone assuming this? I can understand in the case of someone trying to steal back an account they sold years ago. I could even understand in the case of someone trying to claim they owned accounts attached to an eqemu account someone else owned if they hadn't actively used them.

But these two accounts were ones that I had been actively using and logging into up until a month or so ago when Cloki managed to password reset them and take them over from me. In the first two cases, it would be easy to see that the person trying to reclaim/steal the accounts hadn't had access to them in a long, long time via IP addresses. And in MY case, it was obvious I DID have access to them up until Cloki SMS reset the passwords and started playing them himself.

How would it set the worst possible precedence in this situation?

Because you're not a unique snowflake. If you were to get your way it would lead to one of two things.

A) they split off your cleric/bard, you live happily ever after and the staff says this was a one time deal never again. Cries of favoritism ring out from the heavens and all the jimmies in the world are simultaneously rustled

B) they split off your cleric/bard, you live happily ever after and the staff sets precedence for this to happen for other players. Each situation would have to be investigated thoroughly to determine legitimacy of each claim. Massive amounts of man hours would be wasted investing frivilous claims, Sirken would eventually hang himself in a closet while Derubael goes for the quick gunshot to the temple.

Or, and stick with me on this, they could do nothing and avoid both of the previously mentioned scenarios because you should have never given up the emu you idiot after staff said from beginning that they do not condone or fix issues concerning account sales.

[Bardalicious]

There are some interesting questions raised in this thread regarding login account ownership vs. eqemu account ownership, pre-rule "grandfathered" account sales, etc.

As for your particular situation though, you have really only lost a 49 cleric. Be happy your losses were so small and move on imo. Take the PL offer. Work with the GMs for the name transfer. Let the staff chew on the questions that came up...and you can go back to just playing EQ (i.e. having fun).

I realize that you have said you're done here...and, to some degree, I would guess you are just venting. To some degree, I can see how you are unhappy with the staff not being able to assist you. But, when the dust settles (life after forum quest), p99 is by far the best place for classic EQ anywhere.

It's a 49 cleric and 54 bard. For someone that has had so little time to play over the years of being here, that was a fairly substantial loss. The majority of my time spent on my cleric Ruinous wasn't even for my own benefit to character progression - the hour or so I'd log in a night was spent handing out free rezzes and buffs to make the game a little bit more enjoyable for others.

So, you and others may see this as a trivial loss because of the level attached. But I see it as far more than that, as it has taken me a large amount of collective time to get my characters where they were, and the name attached to said character meant something to me.

[Ravager]

Really, it's all Gats' fault for talking Cloki into coming back in the first place.

[Samoht]

It's a 49 cleric and 54 bard. For someone that has had so little time to play over the years of being here, that was a fairly substantial loss. The majority of my time spent on my cleric Ruinous wasn't even for my own benefit to character progression - the hour or so I'd log in a night was spent handing out free rezzes and buffs to make the game a little bit more enjoyable for others.

So, you and others may see this as a trivial loss because of the level attached. But I see it as far more than that, as it has taken me a large amount of collective time to get my characters where they were, and the name attached to said character meant something to me.

Cloki offered to level a new cleric for you. Just create a new account login and provide it to him then reap the rewards. At this point, I think you're complaining just for the sake of complaining.

[HippoNipple]

If you can get both parties to agree I don't see why the staff wouldn't allow the characters to be moved or resolve this somehow. If you can prove ownership of the email/sms attached to the characters there shouldn't be a problem if both parties agree on a solution.

I know account swapping and trading isn't allowed but this is an obvious fuck up by bardalicious with no ill intent. The mess ups happened over a long period of time stretching over policy changes. Yes, you can read the rules and say fuck off, you messed up, or you can be realistic and honor the two parties wishes.

100% in the staffs hands to make this work or not. There is no way for them to settle this correctly without some GM intervention.

[Daywolf]

Lol? Can anyone decipher what this guy is rambling on about? Who in the hell was I trying to bribe? Just... what?
Yep, that won't work either. Next try?

[fastboy21]

It's a 49 cleric and 54 bard. For someone that has had so little time to play over the years of being here, that was a fairly substantial loss. The majority of my time spent on my cleric Ruinous wasn't even for my own benefit to character progression - the hour or so I'd log in a night was spent handing out free rezzes and buffs to make the game a little bit more enjoyable for others.

So, you and others may see this as a trivial loss because of the level attached. But I see it as far more than that, as it has taken me a large amount of collective time to get my characters where they were, and the name attached to said character meant something to me.

it is what it is. trivial or not.

the only solutions you seem to want are:
1) GM intervention (force the EMU back to you, or split the accounts off the EMU and give them to your EMU), which they've said they won't do. Or,
2) for Pan to give you the eqemu control back, which he won't do and GMs won't force him to do it.

Doesn't seem like GMs or Pan will change their mind on this. So, neither of these is gonna happen.

So, you're choices on the table are...take the PL from Pan for your 49 cleric. or, walk away with nothing. (Hmmm...something or nothing? I'll take something!)

Or, if you are really done playing here it is all a moot point. That you keep posting here suggests that you aren't committed to that course of action yet.

[Bardalicious]

If you can get both parties to agree I don't see why the staff wouldn't allow the characters to be moved or resolve this somehow. If you can prove ownership of the email/sms attached to the characters there shouldn't be a problem if both parties agree on a solution.

I know account swapping and trading isn't allowed but this is an obvious fuck up by bardalicious with no ill intent. The mess ups happened over a long period of time stretching over policy changes. Yes, you can read the rules and say fuck off, you messed up, or you can be realistic and honor the two parties wishes.

100% in the staffs hands to make this work or not. There is no way for them to settle this correctly without some GM intervention.


Hey, a voice of reason in a raging sea of angry neckbeards.

This is what we both initially wanted. Although admittedly upset at the concept of having to pay for my cleric back, I did think it only fair that he be compensated for his time spent playing and gearing it. And the bard was inconsequential, as he didn't want it to begin with.

The whole thing broke apart because of the lack of assistance by GM's in making this work. They left it to us to resolve it amongst ourselves, when doing so was quite clearly an impossible feat without further assistance on their end.

[Thulack]

Hey, a voice of reason in a raging sea of angry neckbeards.

This is what we both initially wanted. Although admittedly upset at the concept of having to pay for my cleric back, I did think it only fair that he be compensated for his time spent playing and gearing it. And the bard was inconsequential, as he didn't want it to begin with.

The whole thing broke apart because of the lack of assistance by GM's in making this work. They left it to us to resolve it amongst ourselves, when doing so was quite clearly an impossible feat without further assistance on their end.

They don't want to deal with raid disputes. Why would they want to deal with account trades? Take the PL or just leave. Sucks shit happened but your not getting your toon back the way it was. No amount of bitching,whining,cocksucking is gonna make that happen for you. At first people probably felt alittle sorry for you but now your just making it worse on yourself.

[Samoht]

I wonder how long until Cloki pulls all offers from the table and leaves you to wallow in your own self-pity.

[Daywolf]

Or, if you are really done playing here it is all a moot point. That you keep posting here suggests that you aren't committed to that course of action yet.Sure, but you could also say that about the tranny porn guy. Some people just dig drama, enough to stick around for at least until people stop noticing. Then it's back to the broken coffee machine in the parents living basement before school starts back up again. What was his slogan again? do the right thing GM's? I'd be checking IP#'s here :D
just sayin...

[Derubael]

You're also making the claim that we should discredit a quote from the owner of the project because it may be outdated, despite it being posted only last year. Would you care to provide a more recent quote in which we should be going off of?

Then PM Rogean and ask for him to spend the next 2 hours verifying your story and resetting your info/splitting up your accounts. Something that hasn't been done since the early days of P99 when Uthgaard walked Norrath and Nilbog was a common spawn.

The point you seem to be missing is that, say it with me,

we have never supported the trading of accounts. It has always been frowned upon, and recommended that you not do it.

You can kick and scream and say that the CSR staff never helps anyone, but the cold reality is that you're throwing a pity party for a mistake that you made that we aren't willing to fix. Sorry that there are other people that need our help who didn't engage in activities we don't support.

And yes, I do think you should take Cloki's offer. I don't know why you wouldn't. It's the only way you're getting a resolution close to what you want.

Because you're not a unique snowflake. If you were to get your way it would lead to one of two things.

A) they split off your cleric/bard, you live happily ever after and the staff says this was a one time deal never again. Cries of favoritism ring out from the heavens and all the jimmies in the world are simultaneously rustled

B) they split off your cleric/bard, you live happily ever after and the staff sets precedence for this to happen for other players. Each situation would have to be investigated thoroughly to determine legitimacy of each claim. Massive amounts of man hours would be wasted investing frivilous claims, Sirken would eventually hang himself in a closet while Derubael goes for the quick gunshot to the temple.

Or, and stick with me on this, they could do nothing and avoid both of the previously mentioned scenarios because you should have never given up the emu you idiot after staff said from beginning that they do not condone or fix issues concerning account sales.

bingo. Chest has been making far too much sense lately. It's starting to scare me. Both A and B are situations we don't want to deal with. When we say we don't support something it means we don't support it. We don't offer help if you fuckup, get scammed, explode, or otherwise get a result you are unhappy with. It sucks, and it's a hard lesson to learn. But don't blame us for not helping you when you were warned against account trading long ago.

side note: is this thread rnf worthy yet?

Definitely.

**edit**

btw, we don't delete petition threads. We keep them in the resolved petition section for reference and logging, always.

[Bardalicious]

I wonder how long until Cloki pulls all offers from the table and leaves you to wallow in your own self-pity.

The only pity I feel is not for myself but for anyone else that has to continue playing with a community full of like-minded Samoht's. Perhaps you actually believe your continually assaultive tone on the forums is construed as cool by your peers, or perhaps it's really a reflection of how horribly bitter you are beyond your life behind the keyboard. Good luck in either case buddy. It sounds like you really might need it.

I'll not be posting again unless it's to assist in giving away my items in the coming days.

[Gaffin 7.0]

a hurb account double posting again ^

[Glenzig]

The only pity I feel is not for myself but for anyone else that has to continue playing with a community full of like-minded Samoht's. Perhaps you actually believe your continually assaultive tone on the forums is construed as cool by your peers, or perhaps it's really a reflection of how horribly bitter you are beyond your life behind the keyboard. Good luck in either case buddy. It sounds like you really might need it.

I'll not be posting again unless it's to assist in giving away my items in the coming days.

If you give me your fungi tunic, will I have to worry about you wanting to claim it back by merit of original ownership at some point?

[Poetic]

If you give me your fungi tunic, will I have to worry about you wanting to claim it back by merit of original ownership at some point?

Still some of you are completely ignorant to the actual situation going on in this thread. Why post useless jabber that only makes you look unintelligent. At least read the thread if you wanna partake.

[Juryiel]

We don't offer help if you fuckup, get scammed, explode, or otherwise get a result you are unhappy with.

No support even if I explode? Why GMs so cruel :(

[Ravager]

No support even if I explode? Why GMs so cruel :(

I certainly wouldn't want to deal with the mess, not as a volunteer anyway.

[Glenzig]

Still some of you are completely ignorant to the actual situation going on in this thread. Why post useless jabber that only makes you look unintelligent. At least read the thread if you wanna partake.

I was one of the first people to post and have read every post since then including the posts of PMs and petitions back and forth. Just because I feel that Bard messed up and screwed himself over, which is obviously contrary to your opinion, does nothing to raise or lower my intelligence quotient one iota. It just means I have a different opinion than you.

[Derubael]

No support even if I explode? Why GMs so cruel :(

because rawrargh sharing/trading accounts

http://static.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1222/rage-face_2385836.jpg

[Samoht]

you're talking about a Blue account with Blue toons right? they did you a favor

come to red and you will be loved my son

He's talking about a cleric on blue and a bard on red. Typical red downs post.

The only pity I feel is not for myself but for anyone else that has to continue playing with a community full of like-minded Samoht's. Perhaps you actually believe your continually assaultive tone on the forums is construed as cool by your peers, or perhaps it's really a reflection of how horribly bitter you are beyond your life behind the keyboard. Good luck in either case buddy. It sounds like you really might need it.

I'll not be posting again unless it's to assist in giving away my items in the coming days.

You're the one that came here looking for some kind of help. With knowledge of how support on this server works, we offered you level-headed advice based on all of the aspects of your situation and all you've done is outright dismiss it.

Nobody is going to see this from your narrow point of view. You sold an EQ Emu account. All of the login accounts under that EQ Emu account are subject to password resets that originate from that EQ Emu account. Many people had the foresight and awareness that when they were buying/selling accounts they should always acquire the EQ Emu or create a new one, respectively.

You did not have that foresight. You did not have that awareness. Or maybe you did. As I said earlier, you might just be flippant or clueless or lazy, but it doesn't matter at this point because the damage is done and the only option is to move on.

The server staff is not going to transfer your characters to new login accounts. They're not going to transfer your login accounts to new EQ Emu accounts. They're not going to help you get your EQ Emu account back because you sold it.

You can insult everybody who has given the same advice. You can insult me. You can insult everybody who agrees with me. None of that is going to change the situation.

I can agree that Cloki resetting passwords on the accounts he was not entitled to was self-serving and short-sighted. I believe that if he had the opportunity to go back and undo the resets, he would. Unfortunately, Pandora's box is now in effect, and the only thing we can do is move forward.

Quit whining and take the PL. Or quit playing. Either way, you need to come to terms with your own mistakes and deal with them.

[daasgoot]

If i was in Cloki's situation i would have changed the PW's to the additional accounts attached to the EMU as well..

I would notbe willing to risk having the entire emu account banned due to something another player did on one of the other accounts.

simple as that.

[Ket]

Well shit, this thread is still going?

Have a cigarette, grab a beer, kick back on your porch, and reflect on the futility of pixel related angst.

[Troubled]

Why would I be mad at Cloki? He executed a guild split to work the rotation system as planned. I don't see why all the guilds aren't doing the same thing? We are currently under the process of splitting again to have a third rotation spot. New website coming soon.

Oh, it's in rnf now. Finally worth reading. Thanks L.P. and Cloki for the break from tranny porn.

[radditsu]

Aspergers

[Troubled]

L.P. OP

[Exmo]

OP's Dumb for Selling the EMU he intended to continue to play on.

Cloki's too nice for not telling him to pound sand at this point.

Chest is making sane and compelling Arguments. Time to go Ice Skating in Hell.

[zanderklocke]

GMs, if Cloki were to give Bardalicious the password to the cleric and bard login account, could Cloki ever be responsible for actions on those account that could get his necromancer or EMU banned?

If the answer is no, this could be a much simpler problem to solve. Obviously, Cloki doesn't want to take the risk of being held responsible for another player's "legal" reputation playing on accounts he technically has ownership over.

[Samoht]

Cloki should not have to surrender the cleric as-is without compensation. He levelled it three levels, epiced the it, and farmed Hate armour on it. The first one is easily transferable (helloooo essence emeralds), but the OP does not deserve to steal back a cleric on an EQ Emu account he sold with a free epic and hate armour.

[Anichek]

OP

I thought you were assuming it was Lostprophets was posting the tranny porn with Metallikus under guise....but then realized L.P. would be posting kiddie porn.

[Derubael]

GMs, if Cloki were to give Bardalicious the password to the cleric and bard login account, could Cloki ever be responsible for actions on those account that could get his necromancer or EMU banned?

If the answer is no, this could be a much simpler problem to solve. Obviously, Cloki doesn't want to take the risk of being held responsible for another player's "legal" reputation playing on accounts he technically has ownership over.

We don't even look at Eqemu accounts when considering bans. Loginserver accounts only (so there would be no risk).

[daasgoot]

We don't even look at Eqemu accounts when considering bans. Loginserver accounts only (so there would be no risk).

Thought you banned all accounts associated with the offending account.

[Derubael]

Thought you banned all accounts associated with the offending account.

That depends on the violation. No, most punishments on P99 do not involve banning all of a players accounts. That's something we reserve for the more severe transgressions. Even when we do, I don't even look at eqemulator. I pull queries from the login table and ban based on that.

[daasgoot]

That depends on the violation. No, most punishments on P99 do not involve banning all of a players accounts. That's something we reserve for the more severe transgressions. Even when we do, I don't even look at eqemulator. I pull queries from the login table and ban based on that.

word

[Troubled]

I thought you were assuming it was Lostprophets was posting the tranny porn with Metallikus under guise....but then realized L.P. would be posting kiddie porn.

Autocorrect. And my phone doesn't seem to want to remember simple words like fuck and cunt no matter how many times I use them in each text.

[Poetic]

I agree this thread was a terrible idea. Sorry for your loss as I'm sure we can all appreciate the passion you have for your characters, but burning Deru and making a scene will get you no where. At the end of the day, they don't have to help us with issues like this and it's really not fair to get angry at them about it. Just be thankful when they do and move along. I've been dealing with an account issue that I created by trusting the wrong person. It's taking months to hash out and they may never fix it for me (sure hope they do), but why get mad at them for me fucking up? Doesn't make sense.

Moral of the story: If you give even 1 shit about your stuff, don't share it. I know I learned my lesson.


Lol I hope you aren't referring to you Sk named nikon. I'm the person you traded him to for a crimson robe of alendine. Sounds like you made up some crazy story to give to gms to get your account back. I have the old logs to prove this. No wonder gms don't mess with account issues. Too many damned liars out there.

[Kika Maslyaka]

My 2 cents:

1. OP was shortsighted (even though I sympathize with his loss, I would never sell half an account myself)
2. The buyer is an obvious douchebag (If I have bought an account and somehow got something extra that wasn't intended for sale I would make sure to notify the owner/return the extras)
3. GMs are trying to hide behind the rules to get of their shoulders the burden of taking responsibility that account trading was NOT forbidden from the day one. And I always knew this would come back and bite them in the ass, so when SMS system broke the old system - Gms now take no responsibility for the situation that they created and allowed to exist for years.

[Sodapop]

Never shared my enemy or any of my accounts. No problemo.

[Sodapop]

Eqemu* thank you auto correct

[zanderklocke]

Eqemu* thank you auto correct

Never share your enemies!

[Bardalicious]

3. GMs are trying to hide behind the rules to get of their shoulders the burden of taking responsibility that account trading was NOT forbidden from the day one. And I always knew this would come back and bite them in the ass, so when SMS system broke the old system - Gms now take no responsibility for the situation that they created and allowed to exist for years.

Amen.

[Glenzig]

My 2 cents:

1. OP was shortsighted (even though I sympathize with his loss, I would never sell half an account myself)
2. The buyer is an obvious douchebag (If I have bought an account and somehow got something extra that wasn't intended for sale I would make sure to notify the owner/return the extras)
3. GMs are trying to hide behind the rules to get of their shoulders the burden of taking responsibility that account trading was NOT forbidden from the day one. And I always knew this would come back and bite them in the ass, so when SMS system broke the old system - Gms now take no responsibility for the situation that they created and allowed to exist for years.

How's that? They may not have banned people for account sales from day 1, but it was always known that it would be at your own risk. That's not hiding behind a rule, that's allowing people to suffer the consequences of decisions that they never supported to begin with. Which is what they always said they would do.

I guess it shouldn't really surprise me that people would ignore the "at your own risk" part of the deal. No reason anyone should have to accept responsibility for their own actions.

[Kika Maslyaka]

How's that? They may not have banned people for account sales from day 1, but it was always known that it would be at your own risk. That's not hiding behind a rule, that's allowing people to suffer the consequences of decisions that they never supported to begin with. Which is what they always said they would do.

I guess it shouldn't really surprise me that people would ignore the "at your own risk" part of the deal. No reason anyone should have to accept responsibility for their own actions.

"at your own risk" was perfectly understood and was reasonable to a point under OLD CONDITIONS. And of before the risk was say 50%, when GMs changed the conditions the risk now 100%.
Its like allowing people to buy and sell bbguns while "warning" then that bbguns could pose "risk", and then one day, magically, turning all guns into real firearms which kill people outright, and going after the people for "possession of illegal firearms".
Gms changed the rules so what use to be reasonable risk into irreversible harm. This situation was easily predictable from day one. Account selling should have been forbidden from day one. GMs let it run rampart and when rules change (by their will), they now say "oh but it was never supported".

[Glenzig]

"at your own risk" was perfectly understood and was reasonable to a point under OLD CONDITIONS. And of before the risk was say 50%, when GMs changed the conditions the risk now 100%.
Its like allowing people to buy and sell bbguns while "warning" then that bbguns could pose "risk", and then one day, magically, turning all guns into real firearms which kill people outright, and going after the people for "possession of illegal firearms".
Gms changed the rules so what use to be reasonable risk into irreversible harm. This situation was easily predictable from day one. Account selling should have been forbidden from day one. GMs let it run rampart and when rules change (by their will), they now say "oh but it was never supported".

No its not like that at all because actual lives are not involved. As you said, this situation was easily predictable from day one. So how does that absolve the player base from any repercussions? It doesn't. It put the onus squarely back on them where it was all along.

[Man0warr]

They said it wasn't supported straight away BECAUSE things might change down the road.

[Ket]

No its not like that at all because actual lives are not involved. As you said, this situation was easily predictable from day one. So how does that absolve the player base from any repercussions? It doesn't. It put the onus squarely back on them where it was all along.

Onus. Funny word.

Highfalutin. Also a funny word.

The hell are we talking about again?

-Ket

[arsenalpow]

The level of risk is irrelevant to the discussion. The bottom line is there was a risk, OP took said risk, and OP is now paying the price. Staff should not intervene and OP should take cloki's deal and stfu.

[Circa.]

Anyone see my wizard Circa running around ?

[chief]

Playing on a login name which you don't own the eq emu info is dumb. There was a reason why people would buy the eq emu info and not just the login info. Have fun leveling up another character bro LOLOOL

[zanderklocke]

Anyone see my wizard Circa running around ?

Not in awhile, but I did get Circa killed at raptors about a year ago. We were AoEing the island together and the named dino is pretty much out of range for a bard's AoE snare. He tried to pull it out of the kite, and all the other raptors came at him and killed him.

[Kika Maslyaka]

The level of risk is irrelevant to the discussion. The bottom line is there was a risk, OP took said risk, and OP is now paying the price. Staff should not intervene and OP should take cloki's deal and stfu.

This only applies if conditions/rules don't change.
GMs changed conditions and rules on a whim placing at harm people who were safe before.

[Glenzig]

This only applies if conditions/rules don't change.
GMs changed conditions and rules on a whim placing at harm people who were safe before.

Nope. The reason there was risk is because there could be a rule change at any time and without prior warning. This was always the case. It still very much applies.

[Kika Maslyaka]

No its not like that at all because actual lives are not involved. As you said, this situation was easily predictable from day one. So how does that absolve the player base from any repercussions? It doesn't. It put the onus squarely back on them where it was all along.

It doesn't. But GMs is the sole force that creates and enforces the law around here. More than that they create and enforce conditions as would be gods (something that is not normal in RL world unless in case of a major disaster). Therefore they are ultimately responsible for anything that may or may not happen that is not covered by current rules and conditions. They carry the ENTIRE burben.
By NOT forbidding account trade from day one they essentially ALLOWED it. They bare responsibility for ill consequences that happen to people that occurred, AFTER GMs changed the conditions and the rules.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Nope. The reason there was risk is because there could be a rule change at any time and without prior warning. This was always the case. It still very much applies.

If they would only change the rules - that would be fine.
But they changed the conditions. Therefore - they are responsible for this mess.

Imagine that you bought a house in a area that has 10% chance of earthquake. Yeah you took the risks. But then the local authorities performed a weapon test nearby that increased seismic activity of your region by so much that it now becomes 50% chance of earthquake. Who is responsible?

[nilbog]

Yeah you took the risks.

Who is responsible?risk : the possibility that something bad or unpleasant (such as an injury or a loss) will happen

I said this in 2012:

I have always been opposed to characters being sold or traded. Alas, opposed is not the equivalent of condemned; at least not yet. My official stance to date has been these instances are 'frowned upon'.

When I initially launched the server, there were far more pressing matters on which to attend than policing trades. However, cases of players petitioning they were cheated on deals involving shared or traded accounts, I have declined to offer my assistance. Character sales or trades currently fall under 'at your own risk' situations.

That being said, there will come a time where this is against server rules. I hope that time is sooner than later, but heed this warning. Do not have your account in escrow, trade, or consignment for extended periods of time.

You might ask, how can we stop this? Whether it be through linked forum accounts, access codes, etc, I would prefer to prevent these situations than to seemingly condone them.

Own risk. Who is responsible? The owner of the risk, I'd say.

That being said, I have nothing to do with GMing or player accounts. But, risk <> safe.

[Nirgon]

Is there a risk in asking for the emu/account info to be reset given prof?

[Whirled]

Caveat emptor

[Glenzig]

If they would only change the rules - that would be fine.
But they changed the conditions. Therefore - they are responsible for this mess.

Imagine that you bought a house in a area that has 10% chance of earthquake. Yeah you took the risks. But then the local authorities performed a weapon test nearby that increased seismic activity of your region by so much that it now becomes 50% chance of earthquake. Who is responsible?

You're creating scenarios to fit the need of your argument. The only problem with that in this case is that none of that applies. Read Nilbogs post. There is your answer.

[daasgoot]

It doesn't. But GMs is the sole force that creates and enforces the law around here. More than that they create and enforce conditions as would be gods (something that is not normal in RL world unless in case of a major disaster). Therefore they are ultimately responsible for anything that may or may not happen that is not covered by current rules and conditions. They carry the ENTIRE burben.
By NOT forbidding account trade from day one they essentially ALLOWED it. They bare responsibility for ill consequences that happen to people that occurred, AFTER GMs changed the conditions and the rules.

i despise your logic.

[Tuffpuppy]

I just don't see the harm in assisting people on a case by case basis. Even if it takes a month or three, people have spent a long time on their characters just to get it stolen from them it just doesn't seem fair. But all accounts need to be suspended until it is resolved at least.

[Glenzig]

I just don't see the harm in assisting people on a case by case basis. Even if it takes a month or three, people have spent a long time on their characters just to get it stolen from them it just doesn't seem fair. But all accounts need to be suspended until it is resolved at least.

They already knew they weren't going to get any assistance for account sales or trades. If the account is that precious to you, don't give out your account info.

[Kika Maslyaka]

You're creating scenarios to fit the need of your argument. The only problem with that in this case is that none of that applies. Read Nilbogs post. There is your answer.

yeah the analogy for what has happened is hard to come up with because in real world the conditions do not change overnight. You try to come up with one that is in perfect match.

[Kika Maslyaka]

risk : the possibility that something bad or unpleasant (such as an injury or a loss) will happen

I said this in 2012:



Own risk. Who is responsible? The owner of the risk, I'd say.

That being said, I have nothing to do with GMing or player accounts. But, risk <> safe.

Own risk was based on conditions that existed at that time - and specifically - it was impossible to change account info or passwords. The shared account was perfectly safe. Or at the very least safe within acceptable amount of risk. The addition of SMS system brought that risk factor from 10% to a 100%. Players were responsible for the change in conditions. GMs were.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Players were responsible for the change in conditions. GMs were.

Players were NOT, that is.

[Glenzig]

yeah the analogy for what has happened is hard to come up with because in real world the conditions do not change overnight. You try to come up with one that is in perfect match.

There is no need. It doesn't need to be analogous to anything. It is what it is, and it makes sense within its own context.

[Glenzig]

Own risk was based on conditions that existed at that time - and specifically - it was impossible to change account info or passwords. The shared account was perfectly safe. Or at the very least safe within acceptable amount of risk. The addition of SMS system brought that risk factor from 10% to a 100%. Players were responsible for the change in conditions. GMs were.

Nilbog: "That being said, there will come a time where this is against server rules. I hope that time is sooner than later, but heed this warning. Do not have your account in escrow, trade, or consignment for extended periods of time.

You might ask, how can we stop this? Whether it be through linked forum accounts, access codes, etc, I would prefer to prevent these situations than to seemingly condone them."

You either can't read, or are just trying to avoid anything that goes against your assumptions of how "safe" account trading was before the evil GM's "changed the rules". Its obvious that people knew that there was a definite risk of having all your accounts linked.

[Faywind]

yeah the analogy for what has happened is hard to come up with because in real world the conditions do not change overnight. You try to come up with one that is in perfect match.

Read Nilbog's recent post in this thread. Your argument has now been made invalid as he clearly stated that the rules would change.

Also to the OP. You are getting everything back you asked for minus a character name. Take that offer and stop posting.

/thread

[Kika Maslyaka]

Nilbog: "That being said, there will come a time where this is against server rules. I hope that time is sooner than later, but heed this warning. Do not have your account in escrow, trade, or consignment for extended periods of time.

You might ask, how can we stop this? Whether it be through linked forum accounts, access codes, etc, I would prefer to prevent these situations than to seemingly condone them."

You either can't read, or are just trying to avoid anything that goes against your assumptions of how "safe" account trading was before the evil GM's "changed the rules". Its obvious that people knew that there was a definite risk of having all your accounts linked.

change in Rules - such as forbidding of account sales - is not the same as change in condition of how account data is stored and secured. Why weren't sales forbidden from day 1? If they were not forbidden - they were effectively allowed. Since this is not a democracy and players do NOT make their own laws, the GMs are responsible for anything and everything that happens. Which includes both - creation of laws or lack of such.
When I do something, I base my actions on conditions that exist today or are foreseeable in the near future. I cannot possibly foresee such future where another country will start a nuclear war tomorrow, or a volcano with erupt under my house.
Introduction of SMS system completely overthrew previous system that people were basing their reasoning and risks on.
I do not approve sale of accounts in general. But if you are the GMs of the server - you take responsibility for everything that happens which is not explicitly stated in the rules.

[Glenzig]

Seriously man. Read Nilbog's post from 2012 again real carefully. The warning was given that they would most likely be changing the way account info was handled. The warning was given that if you didn't have your account secure at the time that the changes went into effect, you would just have to eat it. What are you still going on about GM responsibility for? If people can't listen to warnings, how is anyone else responsible?

[Exmo]

It was the GM's prerogative to Add a System Allowing PW recovery on Login Server Accounts, and had been a feature the community wanted for a long time.

The people who sold some but not all accounts on the same EMU's are retarded. That's the end of that. It doesn't matter that conditions changed, it should have been apparent from the beginning that EMU accounts (being associated to your Email) Should remain to 1 individual.