Question about item camp handoffs

[Ducket]

So, as I've gotten closer to 60 and been able to camp items I have come across more and more things that seem questionable to me.

For instance, AC spawn in oot is it okay for someone to be camping it, not start a list, but instead ask their guild if anyone wants it even if I had been sitting there the entire time waiting for them to either leave or get the spawn.

I'm very much against any type of Dbaggery on this server and prefer to follow all rules and use the play nice policy.

[toolshed]

Same thing happened to me

Sitting there waiting for the spawn, then some secret 'list' comes out of nowhere with all these people on it while none of them are at the spawn.

Basically people want to trade the camp off to their guildies while they go farm Seafuries. Also - they /duel eachother to create corpses for the lore item

You should NOT be able to be on the 'list' unless you are sitting there waiting. If you leave the camp you leave the waiting list

[Tankdan]

This question is pretty common -

It is entirely up to the person camping the camp to give it to whom he wants, as long as he is there to pass it off. You should never wait for the person camping it to leave without asking them about it first because they have every legal right on p99 to hand it off to friends and guildmates even if you stand there for 7 hours. If the person tells a guildee to come, but he logs and nobody is at the camp, then it is yours, even if that guildee shows up 5 minutes later claiming it was his next. He has to pass it while there. It can suck, but you may be the beneficiary from this too when you join a guild.

[Lolenlionheart]

Yup - has happened to me as well... One guild in particular, is camping a few camps 24/7, handing down the camp from member to member.

Makes me want to quit the game.... :/

[mropey]

What guild? What camp?

[Rooj]

I would love some GM clarification on this, I had this exact conversation with someone a few weeks ago and I've been wondering about the rules myself. I tried looking through some threads but couldn't find exact answers.

[Nuggie]

This rule came about when kunark launched and those nerf item camps were so hotly contested. You can pass it off to whomever you want as long as they can keep the camp cleared and no spawns are reasonably left up waiting to be killed.

Edit - just wait till velious drops. Going to be a lot of drama about this.

[Ravager]

Unless the person there explicitly says you can have it next, I wouldn't waste my time waiting around. Even then I probably wouldn't, because you're essentially double camping one item. There used to be a post about it saying lists mean nothing and that it can be handed out to whomever they wanted, but it looks like that line got lost the last time the rules were rewritten.

[Derubael]

Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time. I really need to compile a "Project 1999: Errata and other extraneous information" post to put all this stuff. For now, this will have to do:

Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. However, and this is very important, two things must happen in order for this to be a legitimate hand-off:

1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so. We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person coming in to take the camp in these situations as CSR staff, so waiting a bit longer will never hurt. W

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

[Lolenlionheart]

Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time. I really need to compile a "Project 1999: Errata and other extraneous information" post to put all this stuff. For now, this will have to do:

Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. However, and this is very important, two things must happen in order for this to be a legitimate hand-off:

1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so. We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person coming in to take the camp in these situations as CSR staff, so waiting a bit longer will never hurt. W

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The person coming to take the camp had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

Thank you for clarifying it :) I have experienced a camp holder saying that SOMEONE from his guild were next, but he couldnt tell me who, since noone was online at that time, and he would give it to the first who came on...

I asked to be on the list - got told that it eould be AFTER a guildie of his came online.

[feanan]

Dual boxers from big guilds gonna have velious items locked down, thats for sure.

OH, wait, I mean their "girlfriends" will be camping items while they raid

[Daldaen]

Dual boxers from big guilds gonna have velious items locked down, thats for sure.

OH, wait, I mean their "girlfriends" will be camping items while they raid

Yea... Camp handoffs are going to be ridiculous in Velious. Fortunately most of them require several people to hold the camp. But a few like the Elder Beads are going to be retarded.

[Ele]

Yea... Camp handoffs are going to be ridiculous in Velious. Fortunately most of them require several people to hold the camp. But a few like the Elder Beads are going to be retarded.

11 spawns, 11 camps :D

[Cecily]

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change the list after telling you who is next. Something that on one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next on the list or if you can be next on the list. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be placed next on the list and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

So I have to have someone in mind to pass off camp to immediately after I begin camping? I'm not a big fan of lists. I usually ignore people asking about them, because i camp till I'm done and when I'm done I generally ask guild if they would like to take before I give it to a random. Doing it wrong huh?

[Daldaen]

11 spawns, 11 camps :D

Lolololol I really hope this is how it turns out. 11 guys sitting on 11 spawn points. The rule lawyering of that would be hilarious.

[Aviann]

So I have to have someone in mind to pass off camp to immediately after I begin camping? I'm not a big fan of lists. I usually ignore people asking about them, because i camp till I'm done and when I'm done I generally ask guild if they would like to take before I give it to a random. Doing it wrong huh?

If someone has been waiting, it'd be the nicer alternative to give them a shot, imo. Especially considering the majority of your guild is working up their 17-20th alt.

[Ravager]

Too bad casinos are banned; we could start a pool on how many posts until someone from the red server tells you to just kill the person and take their camp.

[Cecily]

If someone has been waiting, it'd be the nicer alternative to give them a shot, imo. Especially considering the majority of your guild is working up their 17-20th alt.

Oh be quiet. The only thing I camp, ever, is VP key pieces for, yes, my alts and I don't think I'm ever doing that again. What exactly makes your non-guildie main more important than my alt though?

[Widan]

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The next person on the camp list had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

Does that mean this nonsense: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167367 is going to be addressed then?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

....
2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change the list after telling you who is next. Something that on one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next on the list or if you can be next on the list. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be placed next on the list and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.
....

^^This solves the issue most the time. And yes, it's classic. The upshot is, you can't just have an empty placeholder on the list. It has to be a specific char. Win-win solution. Camp holder gets to hold a camp with a plan, wannabe camp holder gets the camp next if there actually is no plan.

[Cecily]

Does that mean this nonsense: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167367 is going to be addressed then?

Tranix has an 8 hour respawn. It's whoever begins camping first. So probably, no.

[Cecily]

^^This solves the issue most the time. And yes, it's classic. The upshot is, you can't just have an empty placeholder on the list. It has to be a specific char. Win-win solution. Camp holder gets to hold a camp with a plan, wannabe camp holder gets the camp next if there actually is no plan.

I just think its a bit ridiculous you'd have to have a rep in mind the second you begin camping if someone wants in line soon after you start.

[Holdath]

Too bad casinos are banned; we could start a pool on how many posts until someone from the red server tells you to just kill the person and take their camp.

I play on blue and just started recently, and after seeing the childish bickering over camps in these forums, I'm re-rolling this weekend. This is madness. From a new player looking in from the out, I can't even describe how unappealing this makes the blue server look. Lists? Lines? hand offs to your ass kissing brohams? Not a chance, thanks but no thanks

[indiscriminate_hater]

I play on blue and just started recently, and after seeing the childish bickering over camps in these forums, I'm re-rolling this weekend. This is madness. From a new player looking in from the out, I can't even describe how unappealing this makes the blue server look. Lists? Lines? hand offs to your ass kissing brohams? Not a chance, thanks but no thanks

Red advertising getting more subtle

[jcr4990]

Does that mean this nonsense: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167367 is going to be addressed then?Yea I'd like to know how Blitzkragg can get away with holding Tranix for WEEKS at a time doing the exact thing Derubael just said you can't do.

"You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp."

[Cecily]

I'd think an 8 hour break between spawns constitutes a new "camp session". Not that the guy isn't a scumbag for doing it.

Also lol @ red shill.

[Daldaen]

I'd think an 8 hour break between spawns constitutes a new "camp session". Not that the guy isn't a scumbag for doing it.

Also lol @ red shill.

I'd also think that no one is waiting to take his camp cause no one wants to poopsock a spawn for 24 hours a day.

Really just need to ban the account for a week, let the corpses rot, then unban him and tell him to stop neckbearding so hard.

[Wrench]

Same thing happened to me

Sitting there waiting for the spawn, then some secret 'list' comes out of nowhere with all these people on it while none of them are at the spawn.

Basically people want to trade the camp off to their guildies while they go farm Seafuries. Also - they /duel eachother to create corpses for the lore item

You should NOT be able to be on the 'list' unless you are sitting there waiting. If you leave the camp you leave the waiting list

its a social game

why dont you try not being a complete toolbox and actually talk to the person who is currently holding the camp

I just think its a bit ridiculous you'd have to have a rep in mind the second you begin camping if someone wants in line soon after you start.

ugh your vile

[Erati]

is Blitz back at Tranix

I heard rumors he missed a couple spawns .....

[jcr4990]

I'd think an 8 hour break between spawns constitutes a new "camp session". Not that the guy isn't a scumbag for doing it.

Also lol @ red shill.Not really a new camp session. He never leaves and if he DID leave then somebody else could move in and claim it. As it stands right now he's holding the camp permanently with nobody else having a chance and corpsing crowns indefinitely.

[Glenzig]

I just think its a bit ridiculous you'd have to have a rep in mind the second you begin camping if someone wants in line soon after you start.

Why?

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

yes, why?

let me edit: why would you think you could claim an open-ended camp? Let's say two people show up at same time for a camp. I am guessing, the civil thing to do would be /random. Winner gets the camp, and would you now say the loser cannot be next on the list?

It's just silly. Whoever shows up, gets put on the list. If the camp holder has no one on the list at that time, newcomer is next. Worst that happens is that guildmate X logs in 10 minutes later, and is then put third on the list.

"Ya gotta suffer for the pixels" -- Pepper Labeija
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/c6/80/ab/c680ab7e24cbfb576b6fddb2a56926a4.jpg

[Kich867]

It sounds like you don't actually need anyone in mind, you can start the camp. If someone says "Is anyone else next?" and you don't have anyone in mind, the person that just asked you that is next in line.

Cause that's how lines work and stuff.

You can always ask in guild if anyone wants it, if no one responds, give it to that guy--if someone wants it later, tell them who you gave it to so they can ask to be next.

The annoyance over this seems to be way more about being a neckbeard than anything else. Like, "Gawh why can't I just rig it so no one can get this loot but my guild brawrhghghgh" -- The first person to ask you if they can be next in line when you don't have anyone in mind gets it..

[mr_jon3s]

Why dont you go take the camp then. He got his crown and is keeping lore crowns on corpses. Just go take it and link him the this thread where a GM just said he can't do that.

[Portasaurus]

http://i.imgur.com/r3zIKwQ.jpg

[Lolenlionheart]

It sounds like you don't actually need anyone in mind, you can start the camp. If someone says "Is anyone else next?" and you don't have anyone in mind, the person that just asked you that is next in line.

Cause that's how lines work and stuff.

You can always ask in guild if anyone wants it, if no one responds, give it to that guy--if someone wants it later, tell them who you gave it to so they can ask to be next.

The annoyance over this seems to be way more about being a neckbeard than anything else. Like, "Gawh why can't I just rig it so no one can get this loot but my guild brawrhghghgh" -- The first person to ask you if they can be next in line when you don't have anyone in mind gets it..

Problem is, and you can see someone else in this thread saying it: some people tend to be all ignorant towards "strangers who ask to be listed" and ignores them completely.

Seriously - what the fuck became of deceny, courtesy and all in all treating others with respect? It has all become a "me-me-me-not-you" mentality. And I am sick of it...

[Lolenlionheart]

So I have to have someone in mind to pass off camp to immediately after I begin camping? I'm not a big fan of lists. I usually ignore people asking about them, because i camp till I'm done and when I'm done I generally ask guild if they would like to take before I give it to a random. Doing it wrong huh?


No you do not. But if someones comes up and asks to be listed, it is COMMON COURTESY to list them, and informing them when you break camp. That is at least how we did it "back in the REAL '99 days". Yes everyone camps "'till they are done" - but nothing is wrong with showing a bit of courtesy.

Oh be quiet. The only thing I camp, ever, is VP key pieces for, yes, my alts and I don't think I'm ever doing that again. What exactly makes your non-guildie main more important than my alt though?

And what exactly makes your alt more important than their main? Respect goes both ways man. Stop trying to be so "tough-l337" - that is so last year...you aren't fooling anyone. Just be decent ok?

I just think its a bit ridiculous you'd have to have a rep in mind the second you begin camping if someone wants in line soon after you start.

Again - you don't. If a stranger asks you if you are camping something and you are, all the GM's are asking for is, that if you do not have someone in the line for taking over the camp from you, then the guy asking for it, should be listed.

But seeing that you are ignoring strangers asking to be listed, my guess is that it is a wasted effort on you...

Too bad...

[Aviann]

Oh be quiet. The only thing I camp, ever, is VP key pieces for, yes, my alts and I don't think I'm ever doing that again. What exactly makes your non-guildie main more important than my alt though?

I think anyone's main is more important than anyone's alt. Regardless, if the guy is sitting there waiting, you can at least tell him to shove off that they have a line already. If you camp out before your guildy gets there, tough luck.

[Lolenlionheart]

I think anyone's main is more important than anyone's alt. Regardless, if the guy is sitting there waiting, you can at least tell him to shove off that they have a line already. If you camp out before your guildy gets there, tough luck.

^^ this

[Locust]

what's a main? someone's lone '92 sentra isn't more important than my third level 60 pixel ferrari just because i already own two.

[Lolenlionheart]

what's a main? someone's lone '92 sentra isn't more important than my third level 60 pixel ferrari just because i already own two.

And vice versa... ;)

[Aviann]

what's a main? someone's lone '92 sentra isn't more important than my third level 60 pixel ferrari just because i already own two.

Please don't compare Ferraris to elf sims.

[Ravager]

what's a main? someone's lone '92 sentra isn't more important than my third level 60 pixel ferrari just because i already own two.

Every single imaginary person is a precious snowflake.

[Thulack]

http://i.imgur.com/r3zIKwQ.jpg

Eunomia is gonna be upset at the shade of her armor...She is a stickler for that kind of thing :D

[iruinedyourday]

I just think its a bit ridiculous you'd have to have a rep in mind the second you begin camping if someone wants in line soon after you start.

that's not what its saying Cecily, its saying that when you leave, the rep you said needs to be there to take your spot.. if you don't have your rep in mind and some stranger walks up and says, is there a list? and you haven't got someone already spending their day away from their IRL family to play this glorious game together with us, they get to be next on the list.

If you're super competitive about it, and once you get a camp you plan on having your guild hold it down (whatever your guild) indefinitely then yea you're right, you gotta have your rep in mind when you start in case Mr. Spends time with his family but likes this EQ hobby that we're lucky as hell to share a common interest with, shows up :)

Do you get what I'm saying? were in a 1k+ guild, all together!

#Bluetopia

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130509144916/simpsons/images/thumb/8/8c/Hands_across_America.jpg/500px-Hands_across_America.jpg

[iruinedyourday]

Why dont you go take the camp then. He got his crown and is keeping lore crowns on corpses. Just go take it and link him the this thread where a GM just said he can't do that.

You know what, if you did KS it from him you could just say you watched him corpse himself.

I never thought about being dishonest about taking hte camp from blitzkragg.. but damn sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

So hence forth the ruling is, if you KS tranix from Blitzkragg you are in the right becuse all you have to do is say you watched him walk over and corpse hismelf.

Jesus, that's brilliant!

I hope i see ya'll at tranix tonight!

[Samoht]

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The next person on the camp list had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

so no more corpsing fungis and hero cloaks and demanding to roll on the next one? will this actually be enforced?

[Aviann]

so no more corpsing fungis and hero cloaks and demanding to roll on the next one? will this actually be enforced?

People actually do that? I'd blast them in RnF for it.

[Ele]

Isn't it easier to say if the person dies (i.e. corpsing an item) they lose the camp to anyone else that comes long or that was waiting?

[Aviann]

Isn't it easier to say if the person dies (i.e. corpsing an item) they lose the camp to anyone else that comes long or that was waiting?

Considering its already kind of set in stone and is a rule, I think this discussion is more about the etiquette behind it now. Usually when a group wipes, people give them a chance to reclaim their spot once they get back to their bodies. If someone is corpsing lore items and won't let anyone else have a chance at them, they are a douchebag.

[Daldaen]

Isn't it easier to say if the person dies (i.e. corpsing an item) they lose the camp to anyone else that comes long or that was waiting?

Easier yes. But it doesn't solve anything.

Saying that in the short time someone is corpsing something they lose their camp, won't make those high value camps change hands anymore. Since people don't sit around waiting for them to open up for long since they tend to last for a long time til you get the drop you want.

Really... Corpsing of lore items should be nuked. That wasn't a strategy until Shadowrest zone came out and you could keep rotted corpses. No one was corpsing 10 Tranix crowns or 6 Lucan drops or 3 Hiero cloaks.

Removal of corpsing lore items would be a classic feel change not a mechanical one though.

[Walth]

Isn't it easier to say if the person dies (i.e. corpsing an item) they lose the camp to anyone else that comes long or that was waiting?

Yea, technically that is the rule as Deru just shared.

Also, if there is an item looted, technically the camper is done for a rotation according to what Deru has said.

I appreciate his post as it puts clear lines on camping items and camps. Think maybe this is the clearest of all posts relating to the issue.

[Aviann]

Easier yes. But it doesn't solve anything.

Saying that in the short time someone is corpsing something they lose their camp, won't make those high value camps change hands anymore. Since people don't sit around waiting for them to open up for long since they tend to last for a long time til you get the drop you want.

Really... Corpsing of lore items should be nuked. That wasn't a strategy until Shadowrest zone came out and you could keep rotted corpses. No one was corpsing 10 Tranix crowns or 6 Lucan drops or 3 Hiero cloaks.

Removal of corpsing lore items would be a classic feel change not a mechanical one though.

As much as I agree with what you are trying to say, I have to stop you. Corpsing items was a thing since PoSky was first being learned, long before Shadowrest was thought of. It is classic, as much as a shitty move as it is in order to keep a camp.

[Erati]

Removal of corpsing lore items would be a classic feel change not a mechanical one though.

+1

and I have done my fair share of corpsing......

Doesnt feel classic at all to hide your lore items on a corpse. Sorry.

[Erati]

As much as I agree with what you are trying to say, I have to stop you. Corpsing items was a thing since PoSky was first being learned, long before Shadowrest was thought of. It is classic, as much as a shitty move as it is in order to keep a camp.


Corpsing PoS items namely keys is because those items poof when they leave the zone

Corpsing to hold multiple instances of a Lore item on the same character really has no place in the game, nor was it ever an intended mechanic for people to have 'extra slots' for storage.

Does not feel classic at all to see corpses lined up in various zones, arranged in a deliberate way like cultivating a garden of plat.

Get rid of this pls Nilbog.

[Aviann]

Corpsing PoS items namely keys is because those items poof when they leave the zone

Corpsing to hold multiple instances of a Lore item on the same character really has no place in the game, nor was it ever an intended mechanic for people to have 'extra slots' for storage.

Does not feel classic at all to see corpses lined up in various zones, arranged in a deliberate way like cultivating a garden of plat.

Get rid of this pls Nilbog.

Regardless of what feels classic and is classic, this is and was classic, it happened in classic times. It was not invented after Velious, but it is still a dick move. Especially if people are using it as a way to get an extra roll on the item in a group. The mechanics of Sky forcing them to corpse keys showed a lot of people that they could do it with other items, and they did it.

[toolshed]

Deurbael thank you very much for responding. I know you have spoken before about the rules on P99 being convoluted for new players and hard to understand, and I think the camp handoff is a perfect example of this. Let me walk you through my interpretation (as a new player to this server) of the Play Nice policy and see how this fits with your description:

From here: http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132299
You do not necessarily need to be at the spawn point to call it 'claimed' while it is uncontested, however, if someone else wishes to contest the 'camp' you do need to return to the 'camp' and maintain a presence at or very near the spawn(s) in order to hold it
(emphasis yours)

This makes sense to me - you can go vendor in the zone and sell while still holding a camp. However, I feel like if there is a queue of people, then this camp would be considered contested. It would make sense that people would need to 'maintain a presence at or very near the spawn in order to hold it' if there is a queue. In my mind, if someone is in another zone or camping another mob, they are not in the position to maintain a presence at or near the spawns - they are camping something else. Which goes into the next point:

It should also be noted that if you camp out or leave the zone, you have forfeited a camp. You cannot hold multiple 'camps' if another group wishes to contest one that you are holding.

Leaving the camp is camping another mob. The player has chosen his camp and therefore has left his first camp. I don't see how anyone could lay claim to two separate camps at the same time. Which leads into my next point:

-Monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area.

'Monopolizing most of the kills in an area' would be camping multiple mobs+PH at the same time. This is clearly not allowed in the play-nice policys but it happens continuously at the AC OOT camp. People want to queue for AC while killing Seafurys, and under any reading of the Play Nice policy I think that this is clear that this is not allowed.

Now let's go through your post:

Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time. I really need to compile a "Project 1999: Errata and other extraneous information" post to put all this stuff. For now, this will have to do:

I would call this anything but clear-cut. You do need to compile this info because the rules right now are very convoluted and contradict themselves in multiple spots. Let me show you:

Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. However, and this is very important, two things must happen in order for this to be a legitimate hand-off:

1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so. We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person coming in to take the camp in these situations as CSR staff, so waiting a bit longer will never hurt.

Makes sense, but there is no mention of any type of multiple-camp rule. What if this person that is on this 'list' isn't even on for a majority of the time? What if they're not in the same zone? How does this constitute any type of 'camp' in the definition laid down in the Play Nice policy?

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change the list after telling you who is next. Something that on one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next on the list or if you can be next on the list. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be placed next on the list and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

What if I send a tell to the camp holder and he doesn't respond? And then when the AC spawns and it's next up, all of a sudden someone from another zone comes back? I'm low down on some magical 'list' (that doesn't really exist) and now I have to fight for a camp with people that 1) aren't even online and 2) not even in the zone? This is a perfect example of the convoluted rules that exist on P99 and that are simply impossible for a new player to understand. I read these forums and have read more than most new players about this stuff and I don't understand where all these new rules keep coming from.

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The next person on the camp list had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob

Emphasis mine. In the bolded text, it seems like you would agree with me in that someone not physically at the camp should not be able to be next. I am very confused. If someone is bound next to the PH and goes off in some zone to XP, and then gates back, is that allowed? But then if that's a rule, you are preferentially allowing classes that gate an advantage over classes that cannot.

You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

In theory this would be nice but it happens all the time in OOT for the AC and obviously (as mentioned in this thread) happens for Tranix every day.

Yet another unwritten rule is this thing about handing it off to guild members and somehow being in a guild supersedes any type of queue or list that was made for that camp. Can you speak on this? Is this a rule? In theory the camp holder would have told the person who is asking to camp the mob next if they could be on this magical list, but what if this person doesn't respond(like most)? Please note that there is no mention of guilds in the Play Nice policy outside of "You may not operate a guild that habitually violates these rules" so I don't see how this can be a legitimate rule.

I think the rules should be more clear: if you leave a camps direct location, you lose your spot in line. This is clear, it makes sense, and it is not hard to understand.

[kenzar]

Back when I was actively inflating the price of Jboots I remember having a conversation with Rogean one Sunday morning on how I managed to sell 24 jboot MQs in a matter of a few hours the previous day. Once I explained to him that lore tag only applies to items held by a PC and that a corpse is considered a NPC all he said was "that's clever." Glad I made my millions before this attack on creative problem solving; this is just sad.

[iruinedyourday]

I think we should petition the devs to just nuke this lore not counting on corpse shit. I mean we cant all play nice together.

This is why we cant have nice things, because a small number of enough people exploit it.

Id rather everyone on the server shared camps, than me a firend or anyone be able to get rich easy while being a dick to the rest of the people that play classic EQ and make the world feel alive for me to enjoy.

#lorethecorpses #nerds #bluetopia #itsjustahobby

[indiscriminate_hater]

Too many holes in derubaels rule. What's to stop someone from having a list of 200 people that are in their guild every time they have a camp? If person 1 "can't come" ( isn't online), then move to person 2. Rinse and repeat until you find someone to come take over.

And for people saying that whoever is waiting at the camp would get to take over if no one on the list could come, often there is no way of knowing if the sought after item dropped. There's also a very low chance that the next spawn or two will have the rare mob along with the rare drop, so in reality someone on the list has an hour or so to get over there, with no one the wiser.

Someone could also exploit the technicality of having to leave the camp after the item dropped by appending themselves onto the new list (have a rotating door of two or three people). Most camps take so long to drop the rare item that whoever is sitting there waiting is very unlikely to wait until 1-3 rare items drop, so no one will realize this is happening.

[Aviann]

I think we should petition the devs to just nuke this lore not counting on corpse shit. I mean we cant all play nice together.

This is why we cant have nice things, because a small number of enough people exploit it.

Id rather everyone on the server shared camps, than me a firend or anyone be able to get rich easy while being a dick to the rest of the people that play classic EQ and make the world feel alive for me to enjoy.

#lorethecorpses #nerds #bluetopia #itsjustahobby

Pras! The only thing that sucks about it, is it would be more work for the scripters if its possible. I wonder is suspending people doing it would be more effective or easier

[Daldaen]

As much as I agree with what you are trying to say, I have to stop you. Corpsing items was a thing since PoSky was first being learned, long before Shadowrest was thought of. It is classic, as much as a shitty move as it is in order to keep a camp.

Eh neither of the 2001 guides mention corpsing keys.

They do both however mention how certain islands only have 28 keys, and you have to key your clerics and Necromancers and corpse summon everyone else :/.

[Aviann]

Eh neither of the 2001 guides mention corpsing keys.

They do both however mention how certain islands only have 28 keys, and you have to key your clerics and Necromancers and corpse summon everyone else :/.

The old naive days were tough :(

[Daldaen]

The old naive days were tough :(

Indeed they were. I'm just saying it wasn't some commonplace, everybody does it thing. Cause I certainly never remember seeing 300 corpses on island 1...

[Thulack]

Lol if sky corpsing was well known then my whole server never knew about it. Long time i remember guilds having weekend long Plane of Sky raids and camping out in sky between the raids...Just cause something existed or was even known doesnt mean it was known to everyone.

[Clark]

Back when I was actively inflating the price of Jboots I remember having a conversation with Rogean one Sunday morning on how I managed to sell 24 jboot MQs in a matter of a few hours the previous day. Once I explained to him that lore tag only applies to items held by a PC and that a corpse is considered a NPC all he said was "that's clever." Glad I made my millions before this attack on creative problem solving; this is just sad.

http://i.imgur.com/D0iSuEJ.png

[Aviann]

Lol if sky corpsing was well known then my whole server never knew about it. Long time i remember guilds having weekend long Plane of Sky raids and camping out in sky between the raids...Just cause something existed or was even known doesnt mean it was known to everyone.

You're right, because people kept their strategies to themselves for the most part. It was better when it was that way.

[iruinedyourday]

http://i.imgur.com/D0iSuEJ.png

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=1066791&d=1410280799

[Reguiy]

Removal of corpsing lore items would be a classic feel change not a mechanical one though.

This would be a great change. Until it's made though, we're just gonna have to be satisfied knowing our life doesn't revolve around King Tranix's Crown.

[Aviann]

This would be a great change. Until it's made though, we're just gonna have to be satisfied knowing our life doesn't revolve around King Tranix's Crown.

lol, nooooooo!

[Glenzig]

Too many holes in derubaels rule. What's to stop someone from having a list of 200 people that are in their guild every time they have a camp? If person 1 "can't come" ( isn't online), then move to person 2. Rinse and repeat until you find someone to come take over.

And for people saying that whoever is waiting at the camp would get to take over if no one on the list could come, often there is no way of knowing if the sought after item dropped. There's also a very low chance that the next spawn or two will have the rare mob along with the rare drop, so in reality someone on the list has an hour or so to get over there, with no one the wiser.

Someone could also exploit the technicality of having to leave the camp after the item dropped by appending themselves onto the new list (have a rotating door of two or three people). Most camps take so long to drop the rare item that whoever is sitting there waiting is very unlikely to wait until 1-3 rare items drop, so no one will realize this is happening.
No. If you are asked if you have a list you are required to respond with a name or forfeit the camp when you leave. You cannot change the next person on the list, this is a forfeiture of the camp when you leave. The person next on the list is required to be there "soon" after the PH spawns. The person holding the camp is responsible for the list after assuming the camp. If they cannot provide a name and a toon to replace them, it defaults to the first in line at the camp physically.

Why people would want to spend this much time on a 15 year old game making lists and waiting in line is beyond me. But it is what it is I guess.

[Nimmanu]

Lol if sky corpsing was well known then my whole server never knew about it. Long time i remember guilds having weekend long Plane of Sky raids and camping out in sky between the raids...Just cause something existed or was even known doesnt mean it was known to everyone.

It was known about... it was a bannable offense and a lot of GMs would hang out and watch to make sure it didn't happen. They were very specific in those days about what was a "game breaking exploit" and were extremely hard on it. They would have cracked down (and hard) on anyone who did this.

[Fame]

Fight them for the camp, oh wait..

[toolshed]

Too many holes in derubaels rule. What's to stop someone from having a list of 200 people that are in their guild every time they have a camp? If person 1 "can't come" ( isn't online), then move to person 2. Rinse and repeat until you find someone to come take over.

And for people saying that whoever is waiting at the camp would get to take over if no one on the list could come, often there is no way of knowing if the sought after item dropped. There's also a very low chance that the next spawn or two will have the rare mob along with the rare drop, so in reality someone on the list has an hour or so to get over there, with no one the wiser.

Someone could also exploit the technicality of having to leave the camp after the item dropped by appending themselves onto the new list (have a rotating door of two or three people). Most camps take so long to drop the rare item that whoever is sitting there waiting is very unlikely to wait until 1-3 rare items drop, so no one will realize this is happening.

Finally, someone that understands.

No. If you are asked if you have a list you are required to respond with a name or forfeit the camp when you leave. You cannot change the next person on the list, this is a forfeiture of the camp when you leave. The person next on the list is required to be there "soon" after the PH spawns. The person holding the camp is responsible for the list after assuming the camp. If they cannot provide a name and a toon to replace them, it defaults to the first in line at the camp physically.

Why people would want to spend this much time on a 15 year old game making lists and waiting in line is beyond me. But it is what it is I guess.

Laughing my fucking ass off at the bolded part. #451 of P99's-unwritten-rules

This never happens. Great in practice, but the person poop socking a camp for an item is going to take whatever advantage they can to get more loot, so not responding to tells is one of the ways they do that.

And I totally agree 100% with the last sentence; this is why my suggestion makes the most sense. There are no lists: you have to be there physically with your character or you forfeit the camp. Simple, easy, hard to exploit.

[Glenzig]

Finally, someone that understands.



Laughing my fucking ass off at the bolded part. #451 of P99's-unwritten-rules

This never happens. Great in practice, but the person poop socking a camp for an item is going to take whatever advantage they can to get more loot, so not responding to tells is one of the ways they do that.

And I totally agree 100% with the last sentence; this is why my suggestion makes the most sense. There are no lists: you have to be there physically with your character or you forfeit the camp. Simple, easy, hard to exploit.

The point is, that you can show logs that prove that you asked for a list and they ignored you. If they ignore you, then the person who shows up that was on the secret list would have 0 claim to the camp, so you are free to take the camp. Yes it seems to me that this would be a huge headache and inevitably the staff would have to get involved. But, there is really no other way to enforce a rule like this.

[indiscriminate_hater]

No. If you are asked if you have a list you are required to respond with a name or forfeit the camp when you leave. You cannot change the next person on the list, this is a forfeiture of the camp when you leave. The person next on the list is required to be there "soon" after the PH spawns. The person holding the camp is responsible for the list after assuming the camp. If they cannot provide a name and a toon to replace them, it defaults to the first in line at the camp physically.

Why people would want to spend this much time on a 15 year old game making lists and waiting in line is beyond me. But it is what it is I guess.

i don't think you understood my post. to get around this, you can throw a ton of your friends on the list. people on the list aren't required to be online, and if even they are, you can just add everyone in your guild that's currently online.

also, just as you're not required to respond to a CC in /ooc or /shout, you're not required to respond to tells from someone asking for the list. you can simply not respond. if there is no way for the person waiting to know which item you're after, or if the item you're after has dropped, then there really is no way to enforce this.

this shows why your statement saying that your replacement has to be there "soon" after the PH spawns is irrelevant. "soon" relative to what? there's absolutely no way to know when a person got what they came for, excepting maybe mobs that drop a rare weapon. but even that's iffy (mob that drops a t-staff holding a fine steel staff).

[indiscriminate_hater]

also, logs can be doctored on both sides pretty easily, so that doesn't prove shit

[Glenzig]

i don't think you understood my post. to get around this, you can throw a ton of your friends on the list. people on the list aren't required to be online, and if even they are, you can just add everyone in your guild that's currently online.

also, just as you're not required to respond to a CC in /ooc or /shout, you're not required to respond to tells from someone asking for the list. you can simply not respond. if there is no way for the person waiting to know which item you're after, or if the item you're after has dropped, then there really is no way to enforce this.

this shows why your statement saying you say that your replacement has to be there "soon" after the PH spawns is irrelevant. "soon" relative to what? there's absolutely no way to know when a person got what they came for, excepting maybe mobs that drop a rare weapon. but even that's iffy (mob that drops a t-staff holding a fine steel staff).

Ok.

[baalzy]

Am I the only one reading Derubael's explanation of getting added to a list along with him saying people can't use lore item corpsing to indefinitely hold a camp and thinking: How is this a 'long established' rule? I've never once seen a general chat or rant&rave thread where this was mentioned.

I think they're good rules, but they're either recently made or have pretty much never been enforced.

[Whyt]

Question... What happens if you go LD (say at the AC camp in OOT) and come back right away but there is another person on list waiting right there ... Is that still your camp? Or could they take it from you ??? just curious.

[Man0warr]

Depends how long you were LD and if the mob spawned in the time you were LD - I don't think there is a set time limit but you have to engage the mob your camping in reasonable time frame.

[Walth]

Think if the placeholder is down you have a legitimate claim to the camp still. Otherwise would prob require gm/guide involvement of new person didn't take your word for it.

[beev]

A wise man once said "Your shoes do not represent you! Neither here nor in a Court of Law!"

I'm not even high enough level to camp but honestly all this talk just makes me not look forward to continue on in Everquest. Giving preference to guildies that are on a completely different continent? What if someone enjoys roleplaying and not being part of a guild and they are willing to sit at the camp site waiting for their turn? Then the camp holder only has to say there are 10 people on the list and name of 10 guildies, and if when done there are only 4 out of the 10 guild members on, that makes the person willing to wait 5th in line instead of the 11th which is still crap.

[skipdog]

Is anybody else completely boggled that Deru basically just wrote up a whole new set of rules?

Can we get an official ruling? Is Deru's forum post the law of the land now?

It is hard to believe that Deru has the authority to make such huge, sweeping changes to the rules of the server without checking with the big shots...

Because if Deru's ruling is the 'law of the land' then yeah, anybody can go and take the Tranix camp from Blitz right at this moment, or Blitz at the very least must hand the camp off to a friend. Right? reminder quote: If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The next person on the camp list had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp.

Many others have pointed out the holes in Deru's post, so I won't spend any more time addressing that. I'm mainly just sitting here stunned that Deru either 1) thinks he has the authority to make these big sweeping changes or 2) thinks those have been the rules for a long time, when I can't seem to find a reference to a lot of the points in Deru's post anywhere.

[iruinedyourday]

Is anybody else completely boggled that Deru basically just wrote up a whole new set of rules?

Can we get an official ruling? Is Deru's forum post the law of the land now?

It is hard to believe that Deru has the authority to make such huge, sweeping changes to the rules of the server without checking with the big shots...

Because if Deru's ruling is the 'law of the land' then yeah, anybody can go and take the Tranix camp from Blitz right at this moment, or Blitz at the very least must hand the camp off to a friend. Right? reminder quote:

Many others have pointed out the holes in Deru's post, so I won't spend any more time addressing that. I'm mainly just sitting here stunned that Deru either 1) thinks he has the authority to make these big sweeping changes or 2) thinks those have been the rules for a long time, when I can't seem to find a reference to a lot of the points in Deru's post anywhere.

Im sure your safe to just take over the camp at any time someone has a corpse in the zone. You can assume that he corpsed an item.

take that shiz, get dat crown!

[Cecily]

that's not what its saying Cecily, its saying that when you leave, the rep you said needs to be there to take your spot.. if you don't have your rep in mind and some stranger walks up and says, is there a list? and you haven't got someone already spending their day away from their IRL family to play this glorious game together with us, they get to be next on the list.


Regardless, if the guy is sitting there waiting, you can at least tell him to shove off that they have a line already.

No you do not. But if someones comes up and asks to be listed, it is COMMON COURTESY to list them, and informing them when you break camp.

But seeing that you are ignoring strangers asking to be listed, my guess is that it is a wasted effort on you...

Okie. You guys really took my lack of respect for lines to heart and maybe I should clarify exactly what my problem with them is. There's a running theme in all of your posts that suggests a hypothetical guy walking up. Every single time I've camped the AC, I've gotten tells from people out of zone asking who was camping it and to be put in line. I ignore those line requests, simply because I have ALOT more sympathy for the random guy who did literally walk up, SPEAK with me, and wait with me until my spawn drops what I'm camping. That's who I will generally pass my camp off to, even if I would prefer to keep it with guildies. The guy exping in a different zone waiting for his camp to be served, sorry. It's not my responsibility to track you down.

[iruinedyourday]

Okie. You guys really took my lack of respect for lines to heart and maybe I should clarify exactly what my problem with them is. There's a running theme in all of your posts that suggests a hypothetical guy walking up. Every single time I've camped the AC, I've gotten tells from people out of zone asking who was camping it and to be put in line. I ignore those line requests, simply because I have ALOT more sympathy for the random guy who did literally walk up, SPEAK with me, and wait with me until my spawn drops what I'm camping. That's who I will generally pass my camp off to, even if I would prefer to keep it with guildies. The guy exping in a different zone waiting for his camp to be served, sorry. It's not my responsibility to track you down.

I doubt anyone with that many colored rainbow gifs in their name in their sig is gona be a jerk at all.

If im talking with someone and they dont seem to be getting along with the idea of sending me a tell if they are done with somehting, then ill eaither wait, or just go do something else.

unless its blitzkragg, then ill try to petition GMs to change the rules so you cant exploit the game as easily.

but on that note, sounds like that camp is FFA now and as long as there is a corpse in the zone, anyone can take it so.. party at tranix tonight!

[Ravager]

I doubt anyone with that many colored rainbow gifs in their name in their sig is gona be a jerk at all.

Cecily is quite colorful.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Cecily is quite colorful.

racist

[Aviann]

Okie. You guys really took my lack of respect for lines to heart and maybe I should clarify exactly what my problem with them is. There's a running theme in all of your posts that suggests a hypothetical guy walking up. Every single time I've camped the AC, I've gotten tells from people out of zone asking who was camping it and to be put in line. I ignore those line requests, simply because I have ALOT more sympathy for the random guy who did literally walk up, SPEAK with me, and wait with me until my spawn drops what I'm camping. That's who I will generally pass my camp off to, even if I would prefer to keep it with guildies. The guy exping in a different zone waiting for his camp to be served, sorry. It's not my responsibility to track you down.

I love you again

[Prodigal]

GMs aren't even consistent. I went down to Frenzy not long ago and saw a necro's corpse. /who all deadnecro... not in zone. Cool, my camp, right? Not so fast. Dead necro was zoning back in (apparently he had bound nearby). Came in looted his corpse, besides the FBSS he had on it. Said it was his camp. So I /petitioned. GM comes to the rescue. Not so fast. Necro's guildie comes to camp. GM says necro never left the zone. His camp. Me: WTF? He wasn't in zone. GM: Logs dont show that. What about FBSS? He's trying to double up. GM: Its his guildies camp.

Such worthless bs.

[Man0warr]

Well now you have a thread you can point them to.

[Ravager]

racist

We're both wood elves, so it's cool.

[Nuggie]

Is anybody else completely boggled that Deru basically just wrote up a whole new set of rules?

Can we get an official ruling? Is Deru's forum post the law of the land now?

It is hard to believe that Deru has the authority to make such huge, sweeping changes to the rules of the server without checking with the big shots...


I am not sure if you have noticed, but Nilbog and Rogean have been very hands off this year. Seems like Sirk and Deru are running the show.

As to the new rules: doesn't matter how good the rules or how clearly they are stated someone is going to cry. Besides, not much of this is going to be honored when winter hits and we all become mangy starved wolves for those nerf camps.

[Lolenlionheart]

Okie. You guys really took my lack of respect for lines to heart and maybe I should clarify exactly what my problem with them is. There's a running theme in all of your posts that suggests a hypothetical guy walking up. Every single time I've camped the AC, I've gotten tells from people out of zone asking who was camping it and to be put in line. I ignore those line requests, simply because I have ALOT more sympathy for the random guy who did literally walk up, SPEAK with me, and wait with me until my spawn drops what I'm camping. That's who I will generally pass my camp off to, even if I would prefer to keep it with guildies. The guy exping in a different zone waiting for his camp to be served, sorry. It's not my responsibility to track you down.

<3 :D faith in humanity restored hehe

[Nietche]

So I have to have someone in mind to pass off camp to immediately after I begin camping? I'm not a big fan of lists. I usually ignore people asking about them, because i camp till I'm done and when I'm done I generally ask guild if they would like to take before I give it to a random. Doing it wrong huh?

This is the way I (and nearly everyone I know on the server) have done it--minus the part about having someone in mind to pass off camp from the very beginning.

As a qualification, if some newbie is asking when I'm going to be done (which is usually the question), my answer is nearly always until I get it. Then, they ask to be notified when I leave. Then when I leave, I do /who all newbie. If he/she's not online, then I offer to a guildie. But I have never even considered who I might pass my camp off to when I sit down to kill my first placeholder.

I ignore those line requests, simply because I have ALOT more sympathy for the random guy who did literally walk up, SPEAK with me, and wait with me until my spawn drops what I'm camping. That's who I will generally pass my camp off to, even if I would prefer to keep it with guildies. The guy exping in a different zone waiting for his camp to be served, sorry. It's not my responsibility to track you down.

Agree with this too.

[Swish]

As to the new rules: doesn't matter how good the rules or how clearly they are stated someone is going to cry. Besides, not much of this is going to be honored when winter hits and we all become mangy starved wolves for those nerf camps.

The forums gonna explode with Velious pixel drama. Good times ahead <3

[webrunner5]

[QUOTE=Nuggie;1653767]I am not sure if you have noticed, but Nilbog and Rogean have been very hands off this year. Seems like Sirk and Deru are running the show.[QUOTE]

Yeah, I have noticed it is rare to even see a post anymore by either one of them. Hope they are busy with Velious work. :p But they do deserve a break. I am sure they are pretty burnt out from all the work they had to do in the beginning.

[maestrom]

Issue: Fake lists of 200 people.

Proposed solution: In order to be on a list your name must be given by the current camp holder immediately upon request and EITHER : (a) be at the computer and able to send a tell to/respond to tells from the person asking to be on the list informing them that you are next on the list; or (b) be afk (well you don't have to afk) at the camp.

No way to have a guy just say "Sally has next, then Mike, then Jimmo". The new-comer would be able to verify that those people are on the list and watch their activity.

I'm happy to hear how stupid I am :)

[Daldaen]

How about a don't be a Dick/Neckbeard rule.

Get your drop, leave the camp. You want to get another, come back another time. Don't hold down the camp after getting your Fungi or Hiero to corpse 5 more.

**Exception being if you're grouped, stay til everyone gets 1 of what you want, then leave. No one likes the guy who gets good loot and immediately goes. Which I will revert to my "don't be a dick" clause.

GMs just need to start death touching or hiding corpses of people who are monopolizing camps for days, never leaving, corpsing many items, etc.

[maestrom]

How about a don't be a Dick/Neckbeard rule.

Get your drop, leave the camp. You want to get another, come back another time. Don't hold down the camp after getting your Fungi or Hiero to corpse 5 more.

**Exception being if you're grouped, stay til everyone gets 1 of what you want, then leave. No one likes the guy who gets good loot and immediately goes. Which I will revert to my "don't be a dick" clause.

GMs just need to start death touching or hiding corpses of people who are monopolizing camps for days, never leaving, corpsing many items, etc.

I could get behind that. I was just thinking of something less subjective hehe.

[Whirled]

How about a don't be a Dick/Neckbeard rule.

Get your drop, leave the camp. You want to get another, come back another time. Don't hold down the camp after getting your Fungi or Hiero to corpse 5 more.

**Exception being if you're grouped, stay til everyone gets 1 of what you want, then leave. No one likes the guy who gets good loot and immediately goes. Which I will revert to my "don't be a dick" clause.

GMs just need to start death touching or hiding corpses of people who are monopolizing camps for days, never leaving, corpsing many items, etc.

/applaud

Welcome to Everquest.
The DBaD award has gone to Someguyz Poopsockzalldayz!

[Nirgon]

Pretty clear-cut, and these exact rules have been around in one form or another for quite some time. I really need to compile a "Project 1999: Errata and other extraneous information" post to put all this stuff. For now, this will have to do:

Camp holder has the right to pass the camp to whoever he would like. However, and this is very important, two things must happen in order for this to be a legitimate hand-off:

1) The player being handed the camp must be present around the time the first placeholder spawns after the last holder of the camp has gotten his or her item in hand. The person handing off the camp must stay at the spawn until the next person in line arrives, if that person is on their way to take the camp. There is a little leeway here, and we refuse to set an exact timer on how long the placeholder can be up before the camp is forfeited, but in general it should never be for more than a couple minutes or so. We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person coming in to take the camp in these situations as CSR staff, so waiting a bit longer will never hurt. W

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change the list after telling you who is next. Something that on one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next on the list or if you can be next on the list. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be placed next on the list and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The next person on the camp list had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

You wanna sticky this kind of stuff somewhere chief? Or you want us to bookmark it to forumquest ya'll with later?

Also: play red

[Nietche]

Issue: Fake lists of 200 people.

Proposed solution: In order to be on a list your name must be given by the current camp holder immediately upon request and EITHER : (a) be at the computer and able to send a tell to/respond to tells from the person asking to be on the list informing them that you are next on the list; or (b) be afk (well you don't have to afk) at the camp.

No way to have a guy just say "Sally has next, then Mike, then Jimmo". The new-comer would be able to verify that those people are on the list and watch their activity.

I'm happy to hear how stupid I am :)

Here's how it could be exploited. Newbie comes up and asks for a name on the list. The person camping the mob does /who all his guild. Then he names all 20 of the names that pop up. In the event that several of the 20 are no longer on line when camper douche decides to pass the camp off, he can still rely on his "fake list" to hand it off to a guildie as several of those original 20 members are likely still on-line. If a guildie other than the 20 names wants the camp next, it would be easy to have one of those 20 names on the fake list go take over the camp, say for half hour. When said newbie asks for a "new list" from the new camper, the second camper simply gives the name of the guildie who really wanted the camp when originally asked...and done.

You're not stupid, just unclear as to how fucked up douches typically think.

In my opinion, what we should be doing is doing away with "long distance lists" so that anyone who wants be on a list must either be on the spawn or very close to it (e.g., seafury island if they want the AC spawn or Essence earring spawn when wanting the chief spawn in Droga's) and thus in the same zone.

[Glenzig]

I think one thing that is being missed from Deru's post is that there is no list of 20 people. There is a list of 1. You can only hand your camp off to one person. If that fails, you don't have a fall back of 19 or however many other people, you just have the one person. The person asking for the name of the next in line is automatically the default holder of the camp as long as they are physically present and able to hold the camp.
I do agree with one thing that has been pointed out. I think that the person asking for the name of next in line for camp should have to actually be physically present at the camp in order to qualify for this privilege.

[feanan]

sounds like a lot less hassle to just change the lore tag to include corpses. classic or not.

[thieros]

sounds like a lot less hassle to just change the lore tag to include corpses. classic or not.

[Reguiy]

Something else important to note about handing off camps - in particular, popular ones, but this applies to any camp that becomes contested. If you are solo camping, once you attain the item you were waiting for (an AC ring, for example) you are done camping that mob. The next person on the camp list had better be prepared at this point in order to come eliminate the very next placeholder spawn in order to "stake his claim" on the mob. You cannot work wacky corpse lines on lore items in order to grab multiple items in the same "camp session" if there are others waiting to take the camp. Please be aware that we reserve the right to apply this same ruling to any camp if we deem it necessary, including camps with multiple players.

There is no way for this rule to be regulated as camps like Tranix. For instance, someone is camping Tranix and a crown drops. All the person camping it has to do is tell whoever is waiting for the camp that the crown didn't drop. Then they just have to wait until the guy in line leaves, corpse it sometime in the next 8 hours or however last Tranix takes to respawn, and lie to the next person who wants to take the camp from them. Without a coding change or 24 hour GM regulation, this does not stop people from corpsing 12 lore items.

[Nietche]

I think one thing that is being missed from Deru's post is that there is no list of 20 people. There is a list of 1. You can only hand your camp off to one person. If that fails, you don't have a fall back of 19 or however many other people, you just have the one person. The person asking for the name of the next in line is automatically the default holder of the camp as long as they are physically present and able to hold the camp.
I do agree with one thing that has been pointed out. I think that the person asking for the name of next in line for camp should have to actually be physically present at the camp in order to qualify for this privilege.

I pretty much agree with everything said here, but I think some leeway should be given to the guy waiting for AC camp while killing seafuries. He will be ready for the next ph easily. Just my 2 cents though as I can see your point of view too.

The 20-odd people on the "fake list" was a hypothetical, and I certainly do not support lengthy lists. In fact, I don't think there should be a list at all, beyond the person waiting for the camp. If that guy camps or is link dead, after a reasonable amount of time, the next guy who has shown interest gets camp.

I'm with Cecily on pretty much everything she has said as well.

The TLDR of this entire thread is: Stop being a douche bag.

If I camp fbss for 13 hours, and finally get it, I don't corpse myself for another 13-hour camp. I mean who does that? If there's a newbie at hour 5 asking me to let him know if I leave or get item, I tell newbie when I leave, and if he's not online, the next newbie who has expressed camp gets camp. And like the nice guy I am, I generally wait until said newbie gets to camp so some other asshat doesn't try to lay claim to the camp in between placeholders.

[iruinedyourday]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS3cNOm-P8g

basically its like this ^^

[Derubael]

There is no way for this rule to be regulated as camps like Tranix. For instance, someone is camping Tranix and a crown drops. All the person camping it has to do is tell whoever is waiting for the camp that the crown didn't drop. Then they just have to wait until the guy in line leaves, corpse it sometime in the next 8 hours or however last Tranix takes to respawn, and lie to the next person who wants to take the camp from them. Without a coding change or 24 hour GM regulation, this does not stop people from corpsing 12 lore items.

No need for anything so comprehensive. If you suspect someone is lying about the crown dropping (if, for example, they mysteriously get themselves killed shortly after and leave a body), just petition the staff and we'll find out for you. We really don't like it when people lie to screw other peoples enjoyment of the game, so this would likely be dealt with pretty severely so long as you provided some simple evidence that it took place - snap a screenshot, have your log turned on, take a fraps or offline recording or stream it. [b]Everyone should have their log file on AT ALL TIMES,[/b[ especially those above level 50 or going for hyper competitive camps by editing Log=True into your eqclient.ini file. There really is no excuse to not have this available, and while a log all by itself isn't sufficient evidence for anything at all because they can be so easily manipulated, it can sometimes provide the corroboration we need with a screenshot to prove a case.

I am in the process of working on a write-up to answer some questions presented in this thread. It should clear up any confusion resulting from the post that inspired this topic. I write server rules to fulfill specific requirements, namely that they be easy to understand, difficult to lawyer, and to allow the CSR staff flexibility if our assistance is required during a dispute. As a result, they end up being simple, yet cover a wide range of scenarios, rarely if ever being presented a situation they don't have an answer for. This is contrary to the nit-picky, complicated, rule-lawyers dream of the old that were held for so many years. I think the majority of the server appreciates the easy to understand and felixible nature of the more important server rules, but I obviously have a heavy bias in that evaluation ;)

[Wenuven]

Deru, could you quickly clarify on what happens if more than one person wants to get in line for the camp? Is anyone obligated to keep a list that goes longer than one person?

Say Aaron is camping AC and Bob is in line after him.

Then Joe shows up and asks to be after Bob. Is Bob immediately obligated to honor that request to pass off the camp to Joe? Or does Bob have no obligation to decide who is next in line until he receives the camp from Aaron first?

There was a stimulating dispute in OOT today that didn't seem to be rectified even after pointing out this thread. I was under the impression that the list could extend indefinitely as long as it was kept honestly. But I had a few people who wanted to debate me on my ability preemptively claim a spot more than one person down the list and some people who still wanted to debate the requirement of any sort of list altogether.

[Walth]

I don't think its anyone's responsibility to keep a "list" other than the person who is waiting for the next immediate spot.

[iruinedyourday]

I don't think its anyone's responsibility to keep a "list" other than the person who is waiting for the next immediate spot.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/24/240fe98297ab9ba1ee0bc75f3c2b90d336fd756a5ec612b5bd f780d9108eb1c9.jpg

[Walth]

Cool has nothing to do with it.

I don't want there being some rule telling me its my role to keep a list of 6 people while i'm at a camp.

I'll keep a the first persons name and shoot them a tell or whatever when i leave.

[Ducket]

Personally, I don't think it's all that difficult to create a list macro...

I mean all you have to do is open the macro tab, create one named "List" and do /say Current List ~~ Bob, Slumdog, Joe, Shmoe.

Sure, I can understand not wanting to keep a list longer than a few people, but what else are you doing with that 6-30 minute window between spawns? It takes maybe 15 seconds to create a macro to display a list of waiting people.

[iruinedyourday]

I'll keep a the first persons name and shoot them a tell or whatever when i leave.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/20140302/4991634/mcconaughey-car-dazed-and-confused-alright-o.gif

[Wenuven]

You don't even need a macro. It's not rocket science.

People who complain that making a list is too much trouble baffle me. Are you joking? You can't be bothered to write down a couple names?

In my opinion, a list creates order and fairness to prevent people from locking down spawns as they casually hand off camps to their friends and guildmates throughout the day. How are you supposed to get a chance to claim the camp otherwise?

I'll never understand why people are so resistant to "playing nice."

[Walth]

Have no problem playing nice - i just ain't playing secretary while playing a game

If its that big of a deal, people should be sitting single file near the camp to reserve their spot.

[Ducket]

Have no problem playing nice - i just ain't playing secretary while playing a game

If its that big of a deal, people should be sitting single file near the camp to reserve their spot.

So you would rather people line up behind you at the camp and sit there until you are done instead of taking 15 seconds to type their name into a /say macro and hit the button when someone asks about a list?

Seems like a total d-bag move in my book if you think typing out a name or two is playing secretary.

[myriverse]

Have no problem playing nice - i just ain't playing secretary while playing a game
Don't blame you one bit.

[iruinedyourday]

Have no problem playing nice - i just ain't playing secretary while playing a game

If its that big of a deal, people should be sitting single file near the camp to reserve their spot.

I bet you have a lot of friends IRL

[Daldaen]

So you would rather people line up behind you at the camp and sit there until you are done instead of taking 15 seconds to type their name into a /say macro and hit the button when someone asks about a list?

Seems like a total d-bag move in my book if you think typing out a name or two is playing secretary.

Well when half the people asking to be in the list are permanently in Anon/role since they can't be bothered to respond to tell requests for ports, rezzes, or camp checks... I don't blame him.

Being perma Anon/role is much more of a d-bag move :/. Down with Anon/role.

[Walth]

I have a few.

Let's translate this to real life.

I'm at a sports bar, watching a big game. I have a nice seat right at the bar - enjoying some guy time while my family is out.

Dude comes up behind me, "hey man, mind holding that seat for me when you leave?"

Me, "Sure, I can do that"

5 mins later, hey bro, can i have your seat when your done?
Me, "I mean, there is someone else waiting, I guess if he isn't around I'll search for you..

10 mins later, 3rd guy wants my seat, asks the same thing.

Why the fuck would I want to end my evening searching for guys who probably have already found another seat? Like I said, I'll ask the original, but don't expect further than that. Not my responsibility.

Granted that scenario most likely wouldn't happen, but same principle.

[myriverse]

I bet you have a lot of friends IRL
It's awesome that people don't have this sense of entitlement IRL.

[iruinedyourday]

It's awesome that people don't have this sense of entitlement IRL.

rofl, think of it as a, 'holding the door instead of letting it slam into someones face' type of thing and you'll realize that a teeeeeny tiny bit of effort is not an entitlement.. :p

[Wenuven]

Why the fuck would I want to end my evening searching for guys who probably have already found another seat? Like I said, I'll ask the original, but don't expect further than that. Not my responsibility.

I actually agree with you on this point. Here's my take on it though...

The person holding the camp just has to begin list... the people ON the list should be the ones responsible for keeping track of their place in line and the person who comes after them. An example, heres a hypothetical list:

1. Person A
2. Person B
3. Person C
4. Person D

Person A is responsible for letting B know when the camp is open.

Person B is responsible for letting anyone who asks know that Person C is on the list after him.

Person C is responsible for letting anyone know that Person D is after him.

The list still exists but no one person is responsible for maintaining it beyond the person who comes after him.

If I get to the camp and I ask Person B if there is anyone waiting after them, and they tell me something like "Yeah but I can't give you a name," I just assume they are a greedy d-bag that is waiting to see if his 6th cousin is going to log on randomly at the last minute so he can swoop in and take over the camp without having to wait for it.

[Walth]

That is not unreasonable

[-TK-]

I actually agree with you on this point. Here's my take on it though...

The person holding the camp just has to begin list... the people ON the list should be the ones responsible for keeping track of their place in line and the person who comes after them. An example, heres a hypothetical list:

1. Person A
2. Person B
3. Person C
4. Person D

Person A is responsible for letting B know when the camp is open.

Person B is responsible for letting anyone who asks know that Person C is on the list after him.

Person C is responsible for letting anyone know that Person D is after him.

The list still exists but no one person is responsible for maintaining it beyond the person who comes after him.

If I get to the camp and I ask Person B if there is anyone waiting after them, and they tell me something like "Yeah but I can't give you a name," I just assume they are a greedy d-bag that is waiting to see if his 6th cousin is going to log on randomly at the last minute so he can swoop in and take over the camp without having to wait for it.

Jeez, this shit gets out of hand quick. I don't go to any length to keep a 'list' and I won't in the future beyond one person. Unless you're the first person camped out at the spawn and to send me a tell (or are waiting), you'll get the response 'someone is already waiting' and maybe you'll get their name so you can communicate with them in the future. Not going further than that. If that person is not online when I'm done, I'll log out and camp is FTE. I'm not your PH.

[Wenuven]

Jeez, this shit gets out of hand quick. I don't go to any length to keep a 'list' and I won't in the future beyond one person.

I think you skimmed over my post too quickly. That is exactly what I was suggesting--you are only responsible for keeping the one name that comes after you.

[-TK-]

I think you skimmed over my post too quickly. That is exactly what I was suggesting--you are only responsible for keeping the one name that comes after you.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you specificly. Just happened to quote you on how this is already getting/can be overcomplicated. I agree with you that it should only be the next person in line.

[mr_jon3s]

I tried doing lists for camps but people have no courtesy. Camping an item and people askyou to add them to a list. I do and after a couple hours my item drops and I procede to go down the list of 5 people and not a single person is on. The least they could have done is let me know that they were logging and to take them off the list. I had other people stop by the camp ask if I had a list and how long it was. Once they found out it was 5+ they said nvm. Now I just give the camp to whoever is waiting there when im done.

[Utmost]

Journal Entry 1982:

Day 9: Temple of Droga

Chief/Bg still camped.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM7YgpmfE2Y

[Derubael]

Will return shortly to finally murder this thread and answer all questions in one fell swoop. Before I go on break, however, something important to remember, because everyone is making these so much more complicated than they need to be:

For anyone familiar with the old, Xzerion created (or at least posted - I don't know if he created them) camp rules, these are absolutely identical in every single way with the one new addition being that players have to reveal the name of the next person in line to take the camp. This is to prevent situations such as cecily highlighted earlier - wanting to "reserve the camp" for a guildie - that's all great and fine is you know who that guildie will be, but if you don't, you need to be honest and let that poor guy asking you for the next shot have the next shot when you're finished. If you do know whos next, that guy can literally be anywhere in the entirety of Norrath and come when it's his turn and no sooner and have 100% legit claim to be handed that camp. This is the way it's worked since 2010 - and it won't be modified anytime soon. As many of you may remember, the actual concept of a "list" was non-existent in that rule-set; you either had someone in line, or you didn't, and it didn't really go past that. People were of course allowed to make "impromptu" lines, but these would need to be individually verified and confirmed by each person waiting to take their turn, and anyone could easily say "no person waiting here, I want Jonnaaay to have it because he's my pal" so long as he didn't defraud you by assuring you a spot after him earlier.

I had a handful of ideas on ways to make this ... a bit more classic-like, but I know for sure this exact system was used on servers during classic, it's just than another "line based" system was more popular - its also however, more complicated for CSR to regulate, and relies heavily on people not being giant douchebags when a camp isn't handed to them. I'm trying to minimize my wonderful Guides dispute related headaches everytime I write out rules for clarification or simply because they needed to be updated and/or changed from outdated entries. This is one of those cases where it's almost exactly the same rules we've used forever on this server, with that one minor exception.

Will get down to the nitty gritty a little while later (there was someone earlier in this thread gunning for a lawyer spot on the TMO/IB team - or it looked that way at least. You should never try to rule lawyer the guy who wrote the rule you're attempting to lawyer - it's rude, and I ensure that every rule is written so that rule lawyers can be mercilessly crushed even with the most clever arguments - I've gotten very good at doing all updates/rewrites this way, and always look forward to testing that theory. Cant wait to test it once again!) I hope this clears up some issues that were being asked. If you keep your understanding of this rule-set simple, you won't have a problem, because it's meant to be easy to understand on all levels.

[M.J.]

First Scenario

Been in a camp for a hour or two, I'm a wimpy ass caster that visits a vendor in a zone to convert coin and sell as often as old people visit the bathroom. Between respawns I gate to vendor, up run back because I'm a peasant without Jboots (this is a lie, but making hypothetical lowbie sympathetic to the max) and a mob that has been up for less than 10 seconds is now being engaged. This camp has say, 3-4 spawns all within sight of each other. The player that is doing the killing has been sitting AFK nearby and killing a single spawn or occasionally popping up from his afk to hate stare at me and run around my camp then go back to being afk.

The Question: Is it his camp now? Can I prevent this scenario by sending this guy a tell and logging / screenshotting his vulture status? Is vendoring / temporary absences allowed within reason (back before even a single respawn, an announcement you are making a vendor run if the person is in zone) or are bathroom breaks and vendor runs game over?

Second Scenario

I do a camp check and a necro or shaman claims to be doing a 6-8 spawn camp solo. I run through and check on the camp and the guy is doing half of the spawns available within the camp and leaving one room up consistently. Basically he's capable of doing one full room and an extra spawn if he doesn't get any resists. I now ask him if he's killing all the mobs and just taking a med break, he says he is. I decide I'd like to see that so I sit down next to his ass and he needs my help not to die because he was full of crap and only capable of doing the one room.

The Question: Can I petition this sonuvbitch for monopolizing and lying about the camp? To me this is even worse than the wait list problem, lying about a camp or the situation in it (players sneaking / invis / hidden near by claiming the camp when no group is there) and has to be done with the intent of misleading others. It's one thing if you are taking a med break or piss break after 3 hours of continuous killing. That or maybe a bad set of resists and mobs are still up, it's another to never have the camp in the first place and lie to keep a minor advantage / claim a larger camp than you are actually capable of doing right then.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I have a few.

Let's translate this to real life.

I'm at a sports bar, watching a big game. I have a nice seat right at the bar - enjoying some guy time while my family is out.

Dude comes up behind me, "hey man, mind holding that seat for me when you leave?"

Me, "Sure, I can do that"

5 mins later, hey bro, can i have your seat when your done?
Me, "I mean, there is someone else waiting, I guess if he isn't around I'll search for you..

10 mins later, 3rd guy wants my seat, asks the same thing.

Why the fuck would I want to end my evening searching for guys who probably have already found another seat? Like I said, I'll ask the original, but don't expect further than that. Not my responsibility.

Granted that scenario most likely wouldn't happen, but same principle.

Comparing holding a camp list at sheer hell drudgery ph camps to holding a seat at a raucous sports bar is a stretch, isn't it?

Completely different respawn rates, lots of roamers, etc.

[Kreylyn]

First Scenario

Been in a camp for a hour or two, I'm a wimpy ass caster that visits a vendor in a zone to convert coin and sell as often as old people visit the bathroom. Between respawns I gate to vendor, up run back because I'm a peasant without Jboots (this is a lie, but making hypothetical lowbie sympathetic to the max) and a mob that has been up for less than 10 seconds is now being engaged. This camp has say, 3-4 spawns all within sight of each other. The player that is doing the killing has been sitting AFK nearby and killing a single spawn or occasionally popping up from his afk to hate stare at me and run around my camp then go back to being afk.

The Question: Is it his camp now? Can I prevent this scenario by sending this guy a tell and logging / screenshotting his vulture status? Is vendoring / temporary absences allowed within reason (back before even a single respawn, an announcement you are making a vendor run if the person is in zone) or are bathroom breaks and vendor runs game over?

The rules state that short absence like that are allowable and you retain the camp. The key points here... didn't leave the zone for the vendor, and the spawn was not up for any significant amount of time. Yes, communication would probably help prevent the guy waiting from thinking you have left the camp clear for him, so yeah... you might wanna send that tell just so you can work it out before it's a problem.

Second Scenario

I do a camp check and a necro or shaman claims to be doing a 6-8 spawn camp solo. I run through and check on the camp and the guy is doing half of the spawns available within the camp and leaving one room up consistently. Basically he's capable of doing one full room and an extra spawn if he doesn't get any resists. I now ask him if he's killing all the mobs and just taking a med break, he says he is. I decide I'd like to see that so I sit down next to his ass and he needs my help not to die because he was full of crap and only capable of doing the one room.

The Question: Can I petition this sonuvbitch for monopolizing and lying about the camp? To me this is even worse than the wait list problem, lying about a camp or the situation in it (players sneaking / invis / hidden near by claiming the camp when no group is there) and has to be done with the intent of misleading others. It's one thing if you are taking a med break or piss break after 3 hours of continuous killing. That or maybe a bad set of resists and mobs are still up, it's another to never have the camp in the first place and lie to keep a minor advantage / claim a larger camp than you are actually capable of doing right then.

You should speak with the necro and declare your intent on wanting to share the mobs. You should work out an amicable resolution, say... split the mobs. He had the camp first so gets to pick what mob he wants (rules state details on picking, maintaining presence, so on) but he does have to be able to kill them or the PH for them, or you guys amicably decide how to split the mobs, or you team up and take all the mobs for now. If he refuses to do anything, then yes... a petition can be made and a Guide will make a decision about it. If you force your way in and take the second room of your scenario and he petitions, then a guide will probably show up to make a decision as well. The rules are worded in a way that allows the decision to be completely up to the discretion of the guide that responds, but it does strongly suggest that people who are unreasonable or won't share probably won't like the result, or if you both don't... they will probably like it the least. :lol:.

Just my interpretation... I'm sure someone of authority can correct me if I'm wrong.

Krey

[iruinedyourday]

The rules state that short absence like that are allowable and you retain the camp.

Oh cool, so we're allowed to go off and buff people during the spawn window? I was unaware of that.. I did once doing the HBC and someone came in and I gave them the camp because I was under the impression that the rules say if you leave the room or general spawn area, you forfeit the camp. Could someone confirm this? or could you link this? or derb if you read this could you put addendum 33 that spotlights this in your next writeup lol

Heh every time this happens I always give people the opportunity to say, 'oh you were out buffing people? oh by all means since you knew the timer, keep the camp cus its just a little old game we both love.' Cus im a jerk that likes to test peoples goodness.. like an evil Jesus. But they never do and I only like to argue Taylor Swift, so I go back to just enjoying the norrathian views.

[kaev]

...
Heh every time this happens I always give people the opportunity to say, 'oh you were out buffing people? oh by all means since you knew the timer, keep the camp cus its just a little old game we both love.' Cus im a jerk that likes to test peoples goodness.. like an evil Jesus. But they never do and I only like to argue Taylor Swift, so I go back to just enjoying the norrathian views.

It's sad that courteous/thoughtful behavior is uncommon enough that when you have 3 or 4 consecutive positive interactions with random campers it feels like you've stepped into the twilight zone, you have to slap yourself upside the head a couple times just to make sure you haven't slipped into a delusional coma. It's not that nobody's acting like decent adults, just that so many act like self-serving/entitled/never-disciplined children so often. (And then you get to the high-end content and discover that on p99 "high-end" is code for "inhabited by self-important slime-spewing douchenozzles and toolbags.")

[iruinedyourday]

It's sad that courteous/thoughtful behavior is uncommon enough that when you have 3 or 4 consecutive positive interactions with random campers it feels like you've stepped into the twilight zone, you have to slap yourself upside the head a couple times just to make sure you haven't slipped into a delusional coma. It's not that nobody's acting like decent adults, just that so many act like self-serving/entitled/never-disciplined children so often. (And then you get to the high-end content and discover that on p99 "high-end" is code for "inhabited by self-important slime-spewing douchenozzles and toolbags.")

True dat.. by the time your 57 youve turned into this no matter how much like greengrocer you were when you started.

http://www.zaporacle.com/wp-content/uploads/emperor.jpeg

[skipdog]

It's sad that courteous/thoughtful behavior is uncommon enough that when you have 3 or 4 consecutive positive interactions with random campers it feels like you've stepped into the twilight zone, you have to slap yourself upside the head a couple times just to make sure you haven't slipped into a delusional coma. It's not that nobody's acting like decent adults, just that so many act like self-serving/entitled/never-disciplined children so often. (And then you get to the high-end content and discover that on p99 "high-end" is code for "inhabited by self-important slime-spewing douchenozzles and toolbags.")

I can understand how one could get that view if all they did was read the forums all day.

I think the vast majority of people who spends vast amounts of time in this game, have very different experiences than you.

Personally, I rarely run into assholes. They are the exception, rather than the rule. I also don't quite understand your experience on the 'high-end'. I've never had other high end guild members personally insulting me or anything. Are you just referring to the fact that you think the top guilds are meanies or the fact that guilds compete against eachother for pixels?

It is difficult to understand such a negative view towards this server. The only thing that makes sense to me, is that you don't really play that often and just read the forums a lot.

[kaev]

I can understand how one could get that view if all they did was read the forums all day.

I think the vast majority of people who spends vast amounts of time in this game, have very different experiences than you.

Personally, I rarely run into assholes. They are the exception, rather than the rule. I also don't quite understand your experience on the 'high-end'. I've never had other high end guild members personally insulting me or anything. Are you just referring to the fact that you think the top guilds are meanies or the fact that guilds compete against eachother for pixels?

It is difficult to understand such a negative view towards this server. The only thing that makes sense to me, is that you don't really play that often and just read the forums a lot.

:shrug: Glad you enjoy the game! I've certainly had a lot of fun here over the last three years, but other than raiding (which is lots of fun when you actually have a target/zone to raid) most of that fun has been playing untagged characters under L50.

IME, a lot of people here who are in raiding guilds get pretty shitty if you're wearing a different raiding guild's tag, and even those that don't are somehow completely blind to the douchbaggery of their guildmates. There's a lot of the "my guild is awesome and our shit don't stink, the rest of you are tools and smell awful and suck at EQ and IRL" flu going around, can't think of any raiding guild that's immune. (For reference, I've been BDA for the past year, was in <Flawless Victory>/<Rapture> before that, so yeah, I'm CasualScum[tm] and a ChestCrony[tm].) The arrogance and entitlement mentalities surrounding all the Bard mob monopoly PLing and the soul-destroying cancer of Chardok AE contribute their share of negativity to the work of the L60 Campsockers as well.

Every once in a while I have an incredibly good day dealing with players outside of my guild, but for some strange reason it's never those L60 Campsockers and almost never characters wearing raidguild tags who make my day great when I'm on some untagged noname alt. v0v

[iruinedyourday]

It is difficult to understand such a negative view towards this server. The only thing that makes sense to me, is that you don't really play that often and just read the forums a lot.

I dono, someone who is nice and that you don't know would maybe find it a little dickish for someone to make so many assumptions about, who they were or what they do and have experienced.

So maybe you kinda justified his state of mind. :p

To be honest Im not trying to flame you, but you are kinda doing just that by simply not being able to understand someone or where they are coming from in such a case closed manner :)