Slam\Bash

[Burgerking]

IDK if this was mentioned already prolly was since all the same bugs have been around for 3 years now.

But Bash\Slam is supposed to apply a stun like a 2 second stun if it lands. It's the reason why melee's would switch to shields in pvp vs casters was one of the few ways to stop a gate.

Slam is also missing way more than it should, it's like it doesn't factor atk rating or AC in at all I get missed by cloth wearers as much as i get missed by plate. And it misses like 85% of the time not very classic.

[Technique]

Bash/slam already stuns for 2 seconds when it lands.

AC has no bearing on hit chance. Your slam misses more often than a warrior/hybrid's because shaman bash skill is capped low and can't be raised.

[quido]

People are channeling spells through stuns.

[Nocsucow]

Dude casted through my tstaff proc a few days ago
Maybe stun in general is messed up

[Technique]

I should've clarified by saying that when a bash that stuns lands, it's for 2 seconds.

On Live, not all bashes stunned, although those that didn't still had a flat chance to interrupt casting:
If you get bashed, your casting is basically interrupted at that point unless you're an Ogre (which are immune to bash). A bash that doesn't stun has a flat chance (a very high one) to interrupt spell casting. Channeling isn't used at all for a bash. You may also get stunned by a bash, which strangely enough can actually be beneficial for continuing to cast spells since stun resist gear will make the stun fail, but a non-stunning bash can't be mitigated. Again, this is unchanged from how it has worked in the past.Above excerpted from here (http://wayback.archive.org/web/20061011111439/http:/eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=239994&view=by_date_ascending&page=3) and also posted in this bug thread on channeling (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1576702).

This behavior seems to already be in place for both PvE and PvP on this server.

Dude casted through my tstaff proc a few days agoIf this is happening it's probably wrong. Stuns from spell effects differ from melee special attack stuns and should always interrupt casting.

[Nirgon]

Your shaman has 1 to 0 points in bash

Skill matters

Like when monks first got a new special attack, they had to practice it before it would land reliably.. on anything

[Burgerking]

Bash/slam already stuns for 2 seconds when it lands.

AC has no bearing on hit chance. Your slam misses more often than a warrior/hybrid's because shaman bash skill is capped low and can't be raised.

Bash/slam already stuns for 2 seconds when it lands.

AC has no bearing on hit chance. Your slam misses more often than a warrior/hybrid's because shaman bash skill is capped low and can't be raised.

I know what slam is thank you. But if you're saying here that Ac is having no bearing on hit or miss value than that's a huge problem because it did on live. Someone's hit chances should not be determined solely by the players offense and weapon skill, it also factored in the opposing player's defense aka AC.

What you are saying is that players chance to hit would be the same vs a cloth class as it was vs high armor class and that's absolutely wrong.

Slam did rely on offense on live and landed a lot better with str buffs than it did without. It also landed much better on cloth classes then it did on high defense/ac classes. It never landed as well as bash obviously because it couldn't be skilled but was still quite reliable vs low AC classes.

I should've clarified by saying that when a bash that stuns lands, it's for 2 seconds.

On Live, not all bashes stunned, although those that didn't still had a flat chance to interrupt casting:
Above excerpted from here (http://wayback.archive.org/web/20061011111439/http:/eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=239994&view=by_date_ascending&page=3) and also posted in this bug thread on channeling (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1576702).

This behavior seems to already be in place for both PvE and PvP on this server.

If this is happening it's probably wrong. Stuns from spell effects differ from melee special attack stuns and should always interrupt casting.

That's a completely separate issue, melee stun and caster stun both interrupted casting 100% of the time if a stun landed. The problem here is that if the spell casting is longer than the stun duration the spell can still Regain after the stun wear offs. That thread is addressing melee pushback which is also wrong here.

[Technique]

Someone's hit chances should not be determined solely by the players offense and weapon skill, it also factored in the opposing player's defense aka AC.The mitigation portion of the displayed AC value doesn't affect hit chance. The part that constitutes avoidance (defense skill and agility) does though. When someone mentions AC I tend to assume they mean mitigation AC.

What you are saying is that players chance to hit would be the same vs a cloth class as it was vs high armor class and that's absolutely wrong.Armor is irrelevant because it doesn't contribute to avoidance AC (unless it happens to have agility on it); the difference in hit chance is simply due to melee classes having higher defense skill and typically more agility than casters.

That's a completely separate issue, melee stun and caster stun both interrupted casting 100% of the time if a stun landed. The problem here is that if the spell casting is longer than the stun duration the spell can still Regain after the stun wear offs.Provide some proof that stuns aren't immediately interrupting casting, because I seriously doubt it.

[Burgerking]

The mitigation portion of the displayed AC value doesn't affect hit chance. The part that constitutes avoidance (defense skill and agility) does though. When someone mentions AC I tend to assume they mean mitigation AC.

Armor is irrelevant because it doesn't contribute to avoidance AC (unless it happens to have agility on it); the difference in hit chance is simply due to melee classes having higher defense skill and typically more agility than casters.

Provide some proof that stuns aren't immediately interrupting casting, because I seriously doubt it.

Defense skill only boosts AC so I'm confused what you are talking about. I agree that displayed Ac does not effect hit chance, I'm saying on live it did. Agility increases defense which simply increases AC and also increase avoidance skills like parry dodge. If what your saying is true, than you are literally saying Hit chance rolls solely off the weapon skill and offense and doesn't factor in the opposing players Ac at all.

that would mean a warrior had a equal hit/miss chance vs cloth as they do vs plate. You know that's wrong vs live right?

[Mac Drettj]

People are channeling spells through stuns.

This.

Should not be seeing people regain after a successful kick/bash stun afaik...

[Burgerking]

Provide some proof that stuns aren't immediately interrupting casting, because I seriously doubt it.

This is not some big secret that needs to be disproved everyone here can confirm that people are indeed regaining through stuns. I see it everyday in pvp.

[Nirgon]

Really hard to test and prove, what ever will we do

[Burgerking]

Really hard to test and prove, what ever will we do

My testing is called pvp which I do daily, you can test and confirm it if you like but I'm 100% certain. Out of 300-400+ pvp encounters I've seen my slam interrupt one gate attempt. ONCE!

Meanwhile most of my kills vs casters on live were due to my slam stopping a gate on a low lvl caster. Here ONCE!

[Nirgon]

Just saying devs can test this one np

the "post proof" train is really unnecessary for this one

Hail to Da King

[Burgerking]

Just saying devs can test this one np

the "post proof" train is really unnecessary for this one

Hail to Da King

I wouldn't mind proving it to dev's but to do that I'd have to dual box and I follow the rules on red. We can test it later if you want to show some screenshots.

The problem with some of game mechanics is the fact that Eq is one of the oldest MMO's and it's classic coding predated the cable modems, google, wiki, and half of the sources we even use to track down things nowadays.

Even if you had every patch note available and all lucy data, you still would have a very incomplete look at EQ's coding. At some point you are forced to go on memory alone.

I personally think the staff should have gotten together a group of volunteers that played on red to debate and vote on things to fill in incomplete details on the coding.

[Nirgon]

98% of people said yes you should be able to dictate Sirran

Pass on crowd sourcing votes

[Burgerking]

98% of people said yes you should be able to dictate Sirran

Pass on crowd sourcing votes

I was gonna vote for you on the council

[Technique]

If what your saying is true, than you are literally saying Hit chance rolls solely off the weapon skill and offense and doesn't factor in the opposing players Ac at all.Only three factors affect hit chance (assuming equal level), and offense skill isn't one of them:


Attacker weapon skill
Defender defense skill
Defender agility value

that would mean a warrior had a equal hit/miss chance vs cloth as they do vs plate. You know that's wrong vs live right?It isn't, because AC from armor doesn't affect hit chance here nor did it on Live. I'm not wasting any more time attempting to explain it.

The problem making hit chance in PvP so high on this server is due to the value used for base hit chance being too high, or the contribution made by the difference between attacker's weapon skill and defender's defense being too great, or a combination of both. At any rate, Haynar's already investigating it so we might as well all shut up about it until he makes changes.

Really hard to test and prove, what ever will we doHe's a caster who's had "300-400+ pvp encounters". If it happens as often as he claims then it's likely he'd have log evidence of it happening in his favor.

Not that much to ask of someone making such a claim.

At some point you are forced to go on memory alone.This is what happens when you do that. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167660)