Game Mechanics: Slam\Bash

[Burgerking]

IDK if this was mentioned already prolly was since all the same bugs have been around for 3 years now.

But Bash\Slam is supposed to apply a stun like a 2 second stun if it lands. It's the reason why melee's would switch to shields in pvp vs casters was one of the few ways to stop a gate.

Slam is also missing way more than it should, it's like it doesn't factor atk rating or AC in at all I get missed by cloth wearers as much as i get missed by plate. And it misses like 85% of the time not very classic.

[Technique]

Bash/slam already stuns for 2 seconds when it lands.

AC has no bearing on hit chance. Your slam misses more often than a warrior/hybrid's because shaman bash skill is capped low and can't be raised.

[quido]

People are channeling spells through stuns.

[Nocsucow]

Dude casted through my tstaff proc a few days ago
Maybe stun in general is messed up

[Technique]

I should've clarified by saying that when a bash that stuns lands, it's for 2 seconds.

On Live, not all bashes stunned, although those that didn't still had a flat chance to interrupt casting:

If you get bashed, your casting is basically interrupted at that point unless you're an Ogre (which are immune to bash). A bash that doesn't stun has a flat chance (a very high one) to interrupt spell casting. Channeling isn't used at all for a bash. You may also get stunned by a bash, which strangely enough can actually be beneficial for continuing to cast spells since stun resist gear will make the stun fail, but a non-stunning bash can't be mitigated. Again, this is unchanged from how it has worked in the past.

Above excerpted from here and also posted in this bug thread on channeling.

This behavior seems to already be in place for both PvE and PvP on this server.

Originally Posted by Nocsucow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dude casted through my tstaff proc a few days ago

If this is happening it's probably wrong. Stuns from spell effects differ from melee special attack stuns and should always interrupt casting.

[Nirgon]

Your shaman has 1 to 0 points in bash

Skill matters

Like when monks first got a new special attack, they had to practice it before it would land reliably.. on anything

[Burgerking]

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bash/slam already stuns for 2 seconds when it lands.

AC has no bearing on hit chance. Your slam misses more often than a warrior/hybrid's because shaman bash skill is capped low and can't be raised.

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bash/slam already stuns for 2 seconds when it lands.

AC has no bearing on hit chance. Your slam misses more often than a warrior/hybrid's because shaman bash skill is capped low and can't be raised.

I know what slam is thank you. But if you're saying here that Ac is having no bearing on hit or miss value than that's a huge problem because it did on live. Someone's hit chances should not be determined solely by the players offense and weapon skill, it also factored in the opposing player's defense aka AC.

What you are saying is that players chance to hit would be the same vs a cloth class as it was vs high armor class and that's absolutely wrong.

Slam did rely on offense on live and landed a lot better with str buffs than it did without. It also landed much better on cloth classes then it did on high defense/ac classes. It never landed as well as bash obviously because it couldn't be skilled but was still quite reliable vs low AC classes.

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I should've clarified by saying that when a bash that stuns lands, it's for 2 seconds.

On Live, not all bashes stunned, although those that didn't still had a flat chance to interrupt casting:
Above excerpted from here and also posted in this bug thread on channeling.

This behavior seems to already be in place for both PvE and PvP on this server.

If this is happening it's probably wrong. Stuns from spell effects differ from melee special attack stuns and should always interrupt casting.

That's a completely separate issue, melee stun and caster stun both interrupted casting 100% of the time if a stun landed. The problem here is that if the spell casting is longer than the stun duration the spell can still Regain after the stun wear offs. That thread is addressing melee pushback which is also wrong here.

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Burgerking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Someone's hit chances should not be determined solely by the players offense and weapon skill, it also factored in the opposing player's defense aka AC.

The mitigation portion of the displayed AC value doesn't affect hit chance. The part that constitutes avoidance (defense skill and agility) does though. When someone mentions AC I tend to assume they mean mitigation AC.

Originally Posted by Burgerking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you are saying is that players chance to hit would be the same vs a cloth class as it was vs high armor class and that's absolutely wrong.

Armor is irrelevant because it doesn't contribute to avoidance AC (unless it happens to have agility on it); the difference in hit chance is simply due to melee classes having higher defense skill and typically more agility than casters.

Originally Posted by Burgerking [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a completely separate issue, melee stun and caster stun both interrupted casting 100% of the time if a stun landed. The problem here is that if the spell casting is longer than the stun duration the spell can still Regain after the stun wear offs.

Provide some proof that stuns aren't immediately interrupting casting, because I seriously doubt it.

[Burgerking]

Originally Posted by Technique [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The mitigation portion of the displayed AC value doesn't affect hit chance. The part that constitutes avoidance (defense skill and agility) does though. When someone mentions AC I tend to assume they mean mitigation AC.

Armor is irrelevant because it doesn't contribute to avoidance AC (unless it happens to have agility on it); the difference in hit chance is simply due to melee classes having higher defense skill and typically more agility than casters.

Provide some proof that stuns aren't immediately interrupting casting, because I seriously doubt it.

Defense skill only boosts AC so I'm confused what you are talking about. I agree that displayed Ac does not effect hit chance, I'm saying on live it did. Agility increases defense which simply increases AC and also increase avoidance skills like parry dodge. If what your saying is true, than you are literally saying Hit chance rolls solely off the weapon skill and offense and doesn't factor in the opposing players Ac at all.

that would mean a warrior had a equal hit/miss chance vs cloth as they do vs plate. You know that's wrong vs live right?

[Mac Drettj]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People are channeling spells through stuns.

This.

Should not be seeing people regain after a successful kick/bash stun afaik...