What attitudes and philosophies do you hate in P1999?

[sox7d]

^

[harnold]

1-GMs not taking responsibility for their mistakes/bad decisions and then not doing a thing to fix the awful community/endgame they set up

2-GMs acting angry and confused that they have to spend 50% of their time babysitting/petitionquest with end game guilds, when it is them who set up the raid system this way

3-Idiots who don't understand that NBG is greedy

4-People who think that waking up at 5AM to log in their characters already at character select is called "Competing" and that the ability to do this the fastest (or own a solid state drive) makes them superior

[Whirled]

This RnF yet?

[Evia]

3-Idiots who don't understand that NBG is greedy


Seriously this. I don't understand this concept AT all. Especially when they act like you're the greedy one because you insist that everyone /roll because it is the most fair and just way to handle loot. If we all do an equal part in the kill, we all should get equal part in a chance at the lewts. Just because a caster can't use the uber haste belt doesn't mean the caster can't sell or trade the belt in EC to better equip themselves. NBG is such a biased and flawed concept if the item can be traded.

[kaev]

Seriously this. I don't understand this concept AT all. Especially when they act like you're the greedy one because you insist that everyone /roll because it is the most fair and just way to handle loot. If we all do an equal part in the kill, we all should get equal part in a chance at the lewts. Just because a caster can't use the uber haste belt doesn't mean the caster can't sell or trade the belt in EC to better equip themselves. NBG is such a biased and flawed concept if the item can be traded.

This argument has been being made (and ignored) since forever. Pretty sure I saw t first on alt.games.everquest in 1999, no doubt it was already old then.

The thing to remember is that, while NBG is a terrible loot distribution system, it's a fantastic social ice-breaker and guild recruitment tool. If you're being purely mercenary, /ran everything and hug your self-righteousness tight to try to keep warm in the cold, cold world of PixelQuest. If you're trying to make friends, be ready to NBG pretty much anything that isn't a really big deal.

But... Never, ever, EVER, trust anybody who claims NBG for themselves, I haven't met one yet who was honest. NBG is something that must be given, if NBG is being claimed as a rationale to take loot you can bet it's pure selfish greed and probably involves multiple lies.

[Blaza]

This argument has been being made (and ignored) since forever. Pretty sure I saw t first on alt.games.everquest in 1999, no doubt it was already old then.

The thing to remember is that, while NBG is a terrible loot distribution system, it's a fantastic social ice-breaker and guild recruitment tool. If you're being purely mercenary, /ran everything and hug your self-righteousness tight to try to keep warm in the cold, cold world of PixelQuest. If you're trying to make friends, be ready to NBG pretty much anything that isn't a really big deal.

But... Never, ever, EVER, trust anybody who claims NBG for themselves, I haven't met one yet who was honest. NBG is something that must be given, if NBG is being claimed as a rationale to take loot you can bet it's pure selfish greed and probably involves multiple lies.

Its easier to just pass on your roll giving the person who legit needs th item a better shot at it. This is for lower end items, high end items should always be rolled on, unless you are grouping exclusively for a camp, in which case once you get your hiero or fungi or whatever you should pass until everyone has it.

[Ziggy]

Instance on "classic" instead of making the game better.

[stakha]

Its easier to just pass on your roll giving the person who legit needs th item a better shot at it. This is for lower end items, high end items should always be rolled on, unless you are grouping exclusively for a camp, in which case once you get your hiero or fungi or whatever you should pass until everyone has it.

Or roll and if you win give it to the person

[Daldaen]

(Grouper in OT) Bard is in OT. He is the reason for my terrible exp gain in this ramp group even though there are plenty of rhinos and tigers around. Not because OT is a horrible zone to group in. Time to petition without talking to him OR shout in OOC
(Enchanter) I have to use my highest level Mez because clearly it's the best. Also because lower level mezzes get resisted more. (Glamour/Rapture excluded) --- no you noobs, Mesmerize is an Enchanter's best spell until ToT. It is so OP it is ridiculous. The memblur component alone really should be nuked. Was never that high on live.
(Druid/Enchanter/Necro) I'm bad at charming and don't want to learn how to be better.
(Anyone) I know the best way and won't listen to other people's ways of doing things.
(GMs) 16 Hour Variance is a good idea
(Class C and R Neckbeard's) I have fun Poopsocking things weekly.

[Cecily]

Luclin graphic hate is so strong here I'm positive its glow off the monitor causes some people physical pain.

http://i.imgur.com/ydFUQKx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cPEBXWn.jpg

[Joyelle]

(Enchanter) I have to use my highest level Mez because clearly it's the best. Also because lower level mezzes get resisted more. (Glamour/Rapture excluded) --- no you noobs, Mesmerize is an Enchanter's best spell until ToT. It is so OP it is ridiculous. The memblur component alone really should be nuked. Was never that high on live.


Daldaen, please don't make me flog you, because it will hurt me just as much as it hurts you.

Also, if you would like to continue to refresh mez every 24 seconds instead of 1:36 when trying to lock a room down then you go right ahead. I'll do what I do.

[kaev]

Its easier to just pass on your roll giving the person who legit needs th item a better shot at it. This is for lower end items, high end items should always be rolled on, unless you are grouping exclusively for a camp, in which case once you get your hiero or fungi or whatever you should pass until everyone has it.

Or roll and if you win give it to the person

Depends on the group, but yes to both of those options.

Once saw a player flip out because another guy did the roll/win/gift routine for a guildie, somehow it was "not fair" that two people were working to get an item for one while it was okay for them both to be in it strictly for themselves? Pixel Madness! Suspect the ballistic guy must be under age 25 or work for a religious organization or other political party to embrace such a hilarious emotional reaction in lieu of actual reason.

[kaev]

Luclin graphic hate is so strong here I'm positive its glow off the monitor causes some people physical pain.

http://i.imgur.com/ydFUQKx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cPEBXWn.jpg

empty quoting for Great Justice!

[drktmplr12]

KC pipe should be randomed if a monk that is actually working on the epic (not buying it) needs it.

EC traders that don't respond to inquiries

that shaman in your group that wants to nuke, slow, melee, and tank but can't keep haste on the melee's and is always complaining he is oom

The ranger that refuses to root adds when the group is short on CC

people that want to NBG anything of significant value

pullers that snipe spawns/named/PH from another groups vicinity because they can (this hasn't happened to me re: a pawduster or anything). Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

people who respond to conflict with "you mad?" or "you rustled?" when they are clearly just being pricks.

[Juevento]

Instance on "classic" instead of making the game better.

Around here, we call those people classholes. We all despise them.

[Evia]

The thing to remember is that, while NBG is a terrible loot distribution system, it's a fantastic social ice-breaker and guild recruitment tool. If you're being purely mercenary, /ran everything and hug your self-righteousness tight to try to keep warm in the cold, cold world of PixelQuest. If you're trying to make friends, be ready to NBG pretty much anything that isn't a really big deal.

I'm not saying I've never agreed to NBG or passed on a valuable items because I knew someone else would be better served to use it. Sometimes NBG does make sense in some scenarios and to be honest I probably agree with the concept and with using it more often then not. My problem with it is the persistent argument, and actual belief, that NBG is super fair and the most unselfish loot system. It's absolutely not. The people who generally support it and insist on using it tend to argue that it's the fairest system and that having everyone /random is super selfish and greedy. I wholeheartedly disagree and cannot comprehend that way of thinking. If you want to use NBG because you are pals and friends with everyone in the group, or because you just wanna be a nice guy/gal, then great! but don't argue that it's somehow less greedy or more fair. Logically giving everyone equal right to /random IS the only 100% fair system. Plain and simple.

[kaev]

I'm not saying I've never agreed to NBG or passed on a valuable items because I knew someone else would be better served to use it. Sometimes NBG does make sense in some scenarios. My problem with it is the persistent argument, and actual belief, that NBG is super fair and the most unselfish loot system. It's absolutely not. The people who generally support it and insist on using it tend to argue that it's the fairest system and that having everyone /random is super selfish and greedy. I wholeheartedly disagree and cannot comprehend that way of thinking. To me, logically, the fairest system is giving everyone who participated a fair shot at the loot.

You can lead a human to reason, but you can't make him think. Anybody who believes that NBG is fair is emoting rather than thinking. Priests, ministers, and other political hacks, not to mention stand-up comedians, actors championing various causes, mass-media scriptwriters, and an endless assortment of plutocrats and wannabe plutocrats, are all deeply indebted to such people for their livelyhoods.

[Daldaen]

Daldaen, please don't make me flog you, because it will hurt me just as much as it hurts you.

Also, if you would like to continue to refresh mez every 24 seconds instead of 1:36 when trying to lock a room down then you go right ahead. I'll do what I do.

I refresh every 24 seconds when locking down Chardok Royals Hallway. I also happen to never run OOM or have trouble getting started again should I die when some unmentioned cleric think casting Celestial Elixir on me at 20% is sufficient healing.

When there's more, Mesmerization is king. Same deal but lock down four merbs with 50 mana. So many wow.

Just sayin'

[drktmplr12]

You can lead a human to reason, but you can't make him think. Anybody who believes that NBG is fair is emoting rather than thinking. Priests, ministers, and other political hacks, not to mention stand-up comedians, actors championing various causes, mass-media scriptwriters, and an endless assortment of plutocrats and wannabe plutocrats, are all deeply indebted to such people for their livelyhoods.

TIL plutocrat is a word.

[Man0warr]

I refresh every 24 seconds when locking down Chardok Royals Hallway. I also happen to never run OOM or have trouble getting started again should I die when some unmentioned cleric think casting Celestial Elixir on me at 20% is sufficient healing.

When there's more, Mesmerization is king. Same deal but lock down four merbs with 50 mana. So many wow.

Just sayin'

Entrance is a happy medium. I use Entrance all the time. It's recast and mana is only slightly more than Mesmerize.

[Xer0]

I hate the attitude that everything has to be stripped away from the game for it to be classic and fun.

To me, and I think to any reasonably logical individual, the fun in EQ came mostly from (nostalgia aside) the challenge. That being said: It's not the blocky shoddy graphics or the stripped down minimalistic interface that make EQ the great game it is. If they were to remake this game with brand new graphics and keep the gameplay mechanics identical so as to not ruin the efective challenges.. meanwhile,include all the fancy amenities of newer games (LFG tools, and other Nice UI features, simplistic guild creatoin etc)I imagine we'd have ourselves a sweet ass game that I would play over this one any day.

I can't help but get disgusted every time a forumquester pops a "shits classic" boner whenever they make an update that dashed out a nice feature that, while surely not classic, did nothing to devalue anyones experience.

When I first started here in 02 there as a map on the game. So immensely useful. I quit after a month or two and came back right around the time they had removed it and there were so many nerds just beaming with pride over their hardcore classic experience, pretending they and everyone else aren't simply looking at the maps online via the wiki and cross checking coordinates. To me it seems pointless to strip a feature out of the game that's just going to cause individuals to have to leave the game on a regular basis to utilize a tool that would have been unnecessary had that feature been left in game.

Granted even I in my perpetual noobish state am starting to learn to navigate the majority of zones without the aid of a map, I just think it's ridiculous to take simple things like that, which don't actually effect the gameplay at all, away.

Yet somehow none of them ever complain about the fact that night blindness is almost entirely not a thing here amongst the races that should be effected by it, and they would certainly have a fit if their item links were taken away.

tl;dr, it's not the "shits classic" attitude I despise, but how easily the first to shotu "shits classic" avert their gaze when it comes to the cherry picking of classic features.

[kaev]

...
tl;dr, it's not the "shits classic" attitude I despise, but how easily the first to shotu "shits classic" avert their gaze when it comes to the cherry picking of classic features.

Don't get mad, get even! Cecily points the way:

Luclin graphic hate is so strong here I'm positive its glow off the monitor causes some people physical pain.

http://i.imgur.com/ydFUQKx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cPEBXWn.jpg

[Ravager]

The idea that this server can ever be classic.

[Xer0]

Don't get mad, get even! Cecily points the way:

haha I do switch on/off between lucin and classic models. As of now I'm going with classic, the one thing I will say classic has going for it over luclin is that.. mixing different armor types looks ridiculous on luclin models. My high elf had leather arms that looked alright combined wiht his primarily plate ensemble, using classic models, in fact it even fit in with the way chain leggings give you a sort of leather skirt-- but when I switch to lucin it just clashes far too much with the rest of the chain armor and I had to turn it off (or spend way too much money on +wis chain/plate arms)

[sox7d]

I hate the attitude that everything has to be stripped away from the game for it to be classic and fun.

To me, and I think to any reasonably logical individual, the fun in EQ came mostly from (nostalgia aside) the challenge. That being said: It's not the blocky shoddy graphics or the stripped down minimalistic interface that make EQ the great game it is. If they were to remake this game with brand new graphics and keep the gameplay mechanics identical so as to not ruin the efective challenges.. meanwhile,include all the fancy amenities of newer games (LFG tools, and other Nice UI features, simplistic guild creatoin etc)I imagine we'd have ourselves a sweet ass game that I would play over this one any day.

I can't help but get disgusted every time a forumquester pops a "shits classic" boner whenever they make an update that dashed out a nice feature that, while surely not classic, did nothing to devalue anyones experience.

When I first started here in 02 there as a map on the game. So immensely useful. I quit after a month or two and came back right around the time they had removed it and there were so many nerds just beaming with pride over their hardcore classic experience, pretending they and everyone else aren't simply looking at the maps online via the wiki and cross checking coordinates. To me it seems pointless to strip a feature out of the game that's just going to cause individuals to have to leave the game on a regular basis to utilize a tool that would have been unnecessary had that feature been left in game.

Granted even I in my perpetual noobish state am starting to learn to navigate the majority of zones without the aid of a map, I just think it's ridiculous to take simple things like that, which don't actually effect the gameplay at all, away.

Yet somehow none of them ever complain about the fact that night blindness is almost entirely not a thing here amongst the races that should be effected by it, and they would certainly have a fit if their item links were taken away.

tl;dr, it's not the "shits classic" attitude I despise, but how easily the first to shotu "shits classic" avert their gaze when it comes to the cherry picking of classic features.

To respond to my own question, I'd like to say: this one.

[Pint]

I refresh every 24 seconds when locking down Chardok Royals Hallway. I also happen to never run OOM or have trouble getting started again should I die when some unmentioned cleric think casting Celestial Elixir on me at 20% is sufficient healing.

When there's more, Mesmerization is king. Same deal but lock down four merbs with 50 mana. So many wow.

Just sayin'

Entrance guys, entrance is best.

[Daldaen]

Oh to the people who have issues with classic removing things like your map, compass, target window, con color in target box, etc.

Those things removed the challenge which you site as your reason for playing here.

Part of the game's challenge comes from tedium and cumbersomeness.

Stuff like being able to cycle targets, or see your exact mana value or have 40 hotkeys between 4 hotbars... Make many aspects of the game MUCH easier than they were in classic. Without many of those abilities/UI pieces people wouldn't be able to accomplish as much as they can now. Fumbling through bags for clickies (remember in classic you couldn't open all 8 bags or have an inventory slot as part of your UI unless you set it as a hotkey), fumbling through different pages of your single hotbar for a Hotkey, trying to target different mobs to keep them locked down with no cycle target, etc.

While you see it as just convenience, I see it as powerful aspects of the game that allow people to accomplish far more than was capable back in 2000-2001, and not because we are more knowledgeable now. Because the mechanics of the game didn't allow it.

Oh - Another thing I get annoyed with. People who think our current incarnation of sneak pulling is legit and how it worked back in the day. Nope, not even close.

[Pint]

In game map feature was being hugely abused by ppl with mq2, removing it was insanely good for the server. Nobody should have the ability to see everything in the zone in real time just by pressing backspace.

[Tenlaar]

The idea that there would be more than 12 people playing on the server if we actually had to use the UI from 1999.

[Daldaen]

Entrance guys, entrance is best.

Doesn't have anywhere close to the memblur component of Mesmerize, which has so many uses. Both in solo, and group situations.

Plus I like my spells under 20 mana.

[sanforce]

I hate the care-bear freebie raid scene.

I hate how the Veeshan's Peak footrace FTE operates.

[Xer0]

Oh to the people who have issues with classic removing things like your map, compass, target window, con color in target box, etc.

Those things removed the challenge which you site as your reason for playing here.

Part of the game's challenge comes from tedium and cumbersomeness.

Stuff like being able to cycle targets, or see your exact mana value or have 40 hotkeys between 4 hotbars... Make many aspects of the game MUCH easier than they were in classic. Without many of those abilities/UI pieces people wouldn't be able to accomplish as much as they can now. Fumbling through bags for clickies (remember in classic you couldn't open all 8 bags or have an inventory slot as part of your UI unless you set it as a hotkey), fumbling through different pages of your single hotbar for a Hotkey, trying to target different mobs to keep them locked down with no cycle target, etc.

While you see it as just convenience, I see it as powerful aspects of the game that allow people to accomplish far more than was capable back in 2000-2001, and not because we are more knowledgeable now. Because the mechanics of the game didn't allow it.

Oh - Another thing I get annoyed with. People who think our current incarnation of sneak pulling is legit and how it worked back in the day. Nope, not even close.

ITT: Individual misunderstands the terms Easy vs. Convenient.

cited*

Please don't attempt to speak for me. The map has nothing to do with the challenge, I'm referring to things like Regen rates of mana and HP, the difficulty of taking an even con mob (even well equipped, solo vs an even con mob will often result in death unless everything goes perfectly smooth.) Nothing about having maps in the game makes it the game itself easier. It makes navigating more convenient, but the game easier? Please you're reaching pretty fucking hard to make that connection.

In game map feature was being hugely abused by ppl with mq2, removing it was insanely good for the server. Nobody should have the ability to see everything in the zone in real time just by pressing backspace.

I can't speak for hackers or exploiters, but the map that I remember didn't show everything in zone; just physical borders. zone walls, entrnaces and the like. ALl the same information I can get from a wiki map, which I will ALWAYS have open for a zone that I am unfamiliar with.

Also if that's not classic why do we allow use of the wiki maps? Same feature, just not in game. Were wiki's a thing back then?

[maskedmelon]

I hate the attitude that everything has to be stripped away from the game for it to be classic and fun.

To me, and I think to any reasonably logical individual, the fun in EQ came mostly from (nostalgia aside) the challenge. That being said: It's not the blocky shoddy graphics or the stripped down minimalistic interface that make EQ the great game it is. If they were to remake this game with brand new graphics and keep the gameplay mechanics identical so as to not ruin the efective challenges.. meanwhile,include all the fancy amenities of newer games (LFG tools, and other Nice UI features, simplistic guild creatoin etc)I imagine we'd have ourselves a sweet ass game that I would play over this one any day.

I can't help but get disgusted every time a forumquester pops a "shits classic" boner whenever they make an update that dashed out a nice feature that, while surely not classic, did nothing to devalue anyones experience.

When I first started here in 02 there as a map on the game. So immensely useful. I quit after a month or two and came back right around the time they had removed it and there were so many nerds just beaming with pride over their hardcore classic experience, pretending they and everyone else aren't simply looking at the maps online via the wiki and cross checking coordinates. To me it seems pointless to strip a feature out of the game that's just going to cause individuals to have to leave the game on a regular basis to utilize a tool that would have been unnecessary had that feature been left in game.

Granted even I in my perpetual noobish state am starting to learn to navigate the majority of zones without the aid of a map, I just think it's ridiculous to take simple things like that, which don't actually effect the gameplay at all, away.

Yet somehow none of them ever complain about the fact that night blindness is almost entirely not a thing here amongst the races that should be effected by it, and they would certainly have a fit if their item links were taken away.

tl;dr, it's not the "shits classic" attitude I despise, but how easily the first to shotu "shits classic" avert their gaze when it comes to the cherry picking of classic features.

The reason for the development team's stance is objectivity. It makes for a clearly defined direction that allows for quick and consistent decision making and a more expeditious product delivery. If the team was forced to consider every suggested improvement/deviation, we would not have a game to play.

There are plenty of custom servers out there and if none are to your liking you can even make your own. This project is about creating Classic Everquest and it is doing a better job of that than anything else.

[Xer0]

The reason for the development team's stance is objectivity. It makes for a clearly defined direction that allows for quick and consistent decision making and a more expeditious product delivery. If the team was forced to consider every suggested improvement/deviation, we would not have a game to play.

There are plenty of custom servers out there and if none are to your liking you can even make your own. This project is about creating Classic Everquest and it is doing a better job of that than anything else.

I sitll ask then, why are humans not blind at night by default? To me looking the other way in regards to the lack of night blindness while cheering for the removal of the map feature for the sake of "classic-ness" is simply unforgivably hypocritical.

[Ezalor]

I sitll ask then, why are humans not blind at night by default? To me looking the other way in regards to the lack of night blindness while cheering for the removal of the map feature for the sake of "classic-ness" is simply unforgivably hypocritical.

The reason there is not classic night-blindness is due to the limitations caused by the use of the Titanium client. The second that they are able to resolve it and implement night blindeness, I assure you that we will have it.

[Ele]

This project is about creating Classic Everquest and it is doing a better job of that than anything else.

/bowdown

[Daldaen]

Ingame maps are far more helpful than EQAtlas maps. Especially if you don't understand how the /loc systems/grid works. Which a lot of people don't.

Ingame maps would show where your character was in the zone as well as anything you added to the map file. Whether that be walls, static NPCs, hell you could've even followed Quillmane and created a set of lines that show his exact Pathing and left those in the file.

But Maps are only one aspect I mention. Stuff like multiple hotbars and cycle NPC/PC hotkeys are much more important to remove to help return some "challenge" to the game.

I use quotes because difficulty and convenience are often synonymous in everquest. Tedium was a challenge for some to overcome. Thus why not many hit 250 Tailoring for example.

[Ele]

I sitll ask then, why are humans not blind at night by default? To me looking the other way in regards to the lack of night blindness while cheering for the removal of the map feature for the sake of "classic-ness" is simply unforgivably hypocritical.

Not every classic fix is as easy as an other. Modifying an item or mob is a quick database entry. Fixing the UI is a very calculated client modification that can potentially break other stuff.

They tried patching nightblindness a few months ago, but due to the wide variety of graphics cards/drivers/monitors a lot of people couldn't see their UI due to the modified gamma levels. The patch had to be reverted even though on the dev test computers and some other people the patch worked beautifully.

It is still on their list of things to fix.

[Ravager]

I hate the care-bear freebie raid scene.

Good for you. Play red.

[Pint]

Doesn't have anywhere close to the memblur component of Mesmerize, which has so many uses. Both in solo, and group situations.

Plus I like my spells under 20 mana.

Its cool to me that once you hit 60 you can still customize the way you play and we arnt all using the same 8 spells to accomplish stuff I guess. Mesmerize is strong but my always up mezzes are entrance and mesmerization. I do use mesmerization for its blur component occasionally though.

[Pint]

I can't speak for hackers or exploiters, but the map that I remember didn't show everything in zone; just physical borders. zone walls, entrnaces and the like. ALl the same information I can get from a wiki map, which I will ALWAYS have open for a zone that I am unfamiliar with.

Also if that's not classic why do we allow use of the wiki maps? Same feature, just not in game. Were wiki's a thing back then?

I'm just saying it was worth the inconvenience to get this ability removed

[Xer0]

Ingame maps are far more helpful than EQAtlas maps. Especially if you don't understand how the /loc systems/grid works. Which a lot of people don't.

Ingame maps would show where your character was in the zone as well as anything you added to the map file. Whether that be walls, static NPCs, hell you could've even followed Quillmane and created a set of lines that show his exact Pathing and left those in the file.

But Maps are only one aspect I mention. Stuff like multiple hotbars and cycle NPC/PC hotkeys are much more important to remove to help return some "challenge" to the game.

I use quotes because difficulty and convenience are often synonymous in everquest. Tedium was a challenge for some to overcome. Thus why not many hit 250 Tailoring for example.
Again you're confgusing convenience with ease.

Maps do not make the game easier.

[Swish]

(Grouper in OT) Bard is in OT. He is the reason for my terrible exp gain in this ramp group even though there are plenty of rhinos and tigers around. Not because OT is a horrible zone to group in. Time to petition without talking to him OR shout in OOC


Someone's maaad as hell about that ;)

[Swish]

Luclin graphic hate is so strong here I'm positive its glow off the monitor causes some people physical pain.

http://i.imgur.com/ydFUQKx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cPEBXWn.jpg

/thread !

[Ele]

Again you're confgusing convenience with ease.

Maps do not make the game easier.

http://i.imgur.com/ILixJ89.jpg

[Waedawen]

And to answer the OP: Granted even I in my perpetual noobish state am starting to learn to navigate the majority of zones without the aid of a map

People in self-admitted 'states of perpetual noobdom' expecting to be taken seriously. It's just as smug and absurd as a foreigner criticizing the customs of a foreign land. Yes, there is no map. That's the way it is. That's the way it will be. If you REALLY want to be a wise guy, the in game 'maps' weren't even maps -- it was a cartography tool with which you had to draw the maps yourself. So even if you didn't 'know' the zone before, you certainly knew it by the time you finished drawing the damn map.

But of course, you probably just went to eqmaps and downloaded a pre-drawn map pack. And that is what people are actually bitching about. Which just shows the absurdity of humoring these people for even a second because they just really don't understand how wrong they are.

"Shit's classic" is a catchphrase invented with the express purpose to rile up the people who can not understand the concept of, "No, that's not the way it is for an extraordinary gamut of reasons, and I can't be bothered to explain it to you because it would literally be a waste of breath." It's not a matter of cherry picking or this or that. Most of the time it boils down to "that would be great but this is the way it is get over it."

[Daldaen]

Its cool to me that once you hit 60 you can still customize the way you play and we arnt all using the same 8 spells to accomplish stuff I guess. Mesmerize is strong but my always up mezzes are entrance and mesmerization. I do use mesmerization for its blur component occasionally though.

This is truth. Do love how its not all the same.

[Priceline]

Ingame maps are far more helpful than EQAtlas maps. Especially if you don't understand how the /loc systems/grid works. Which a lot of people don't.

Ingame maps would show where your character was in the zone as well as anything you added to the map file. Whether that be walls, static NPCs, hell you could've even followed Quillmane and created a set of lines that show his exact Pathing and left those in the file.

But Maps are only one aspect I mention. Stuff like multiple hotbars and cycle NPC/PC hotkeys are much more important to remove to help return some "challenge" to the game.

I use quotes because difficulty and convenience are often synonymous in everquest. Tedium was a challenge for some to overcome. Thus why not many hit 250 Tailoring for example.

content (velious 2016!!) should be what makes the game more challenging NOT removing the ability to use a map, compass, hotkeys, spellbookless meditation, etc.. these were added as quality of life changes and didn't make the game ezmode.

many of us were there when these changes came into effect on live and personally I don't recall suddenly being able to 1 button mash my way to raid kills. results may vary i guess?

[iruinedyourday]

social anxiety disorder makes me want to find people irl and smash faces.

[fiveeauxfour]

too much min maxing

[August]

1) Powerleveling
2) people who put prices in their auctions thinking it will sell the item quicker (hint: it won't!)
3) people who use the words guy, bro, pal, or friend.

I'm not your friend, guy.

[Cecily]

I'm not your guy, bro.

[Swish]

2) people who put prices in their auctions thinking it will sell the item quicker (hint: it won't!)

People who don't put prices in their auctions thinking they can con people into a shitty "offer" deal ;)

I always list with prices, people are either interested and send a tell... or they're not and I can deal with it.

Nobody tries to lowball, and I get the price I want (or near enough)

[kcsdman]

In game map feature was being hugely abused by ppl with mq2, removing it was insanely good for the server. Nobody should have the ability to see everything in the zone in real time just by pressing backspace.

lol if you think removing the in-game map prevents anyone with 5 minutes and the ability to search on Google from doing that

[stormlord]

Around here, we call those people classholes. We all despise them.
What's better? If the poster is referring to instancing being the solution to raids, I disagree. It might be the easiest answer, and thus the reason modern MMORPGs use it, but I don't think it's the only way. I think there's a big benefit from not having instancing in the form of meeting other players unexpectedly and even learning how to play well from them. This of course hits up against a wall when there's not enough content and not an easy fast way to travel to it.

Note I talk about the instancing/raid thing in the "Raiding" part of my signature.

Anyway, there's not much I hated when I was playing. No spellbook when you meditated? I was ok with that one. Maps in the cities? Fine with that. UI not like the one when EQ shipped? No problem. Screen not as dark if you're barbarian? Sure, why not. Spawns and items and other things not exactly the same as classic? It can't be perfect; it's impossible. The makers of p1999 have done a stellar job, though. They've come closer to classic than anybody else will.

You know one thing I missed most? The message boards didn't work! I remember long ago walking into the Lions Mane Inn in Qeynos and using one of those message boards. Back then this stuff was standard. UO had messages boards all over its cities. Even quests started on them!

I'd say what bothered me is what always bothered me: "Rangers suck and anyone who plays them sucks." Ok, so that means I suck because I enjoy what's fun.

[Ravager]

2) people who put prices in their auctions thinking it will sell the item quicker (hint: it won't!)


I do this, but not to sell it faster. It's to get what I'm asking, which is the point of putting an asking price up front, friend.

[Ravager]

lol if you think removing the in-game map prevents anyone with 5 minutes and the ability to search on Google from doing that

What do you need a map for anyway? Every zone is a rectangle.

[Priceline]

What do you need a map for anyway? Every zone is a rectangle.

why did they add item links? so folks didn't have to go check zam or keep a binder full of item info

same thing with maps

[sox7d]

Ranger hate is as retarded as emo hate in 2003, bieber/twilight hate in 2009, and then white male hate in 2014. People love to get on childish little hate bandwagons even when things have zero affect on their lives.

[Mistle]

content (velious 2016!!) should be what makes the game more challenging NOT removing the ability to use a map, compass, hotkeys, spellbookless meditation, etc.. these were added as quality of life changes and didn't make the game ezmode.

many of us were there when these changes came into effect on live and personally I don't recall suddenly being able to 1 button mash my way to raid kills. results may vary i guess?

Posts like this just illustrate what is meant by 'difficulty' or 'challenging' is completely missed by those who post them. No, maps did not make it easier to kill Nagafen for a raid already there. But without them, you can sure tell the difference between a player who knew SolB from one who didn't, couldn't you? The one who did was buffing people at giants while rogues drag the one who didn't from where they died to bats.

And that's what is being referred to. Things that allowed players to be differentiated from each other by their playing abilities, and that didn't just mean how much dps they did.

There WERE things that were pointless and safely removable without worry - spellbook meditation, for instance. But for the most part, convenience things that removed the need for players to become better players are not here and never will be here, and that's good. EQ was never about players who thought "being a perpetual noob" was a badge of honor. Classic EQ rewarded those who made an effort more than those who didn't, and that's what we want to maintain.

[fiveeauxfour]

Nobody tries to lowball, and I get the price I want (or near enough)


I wish I had your luck. Even when I do put the price in the auction, I get lowball offers. I do not think either putting a price or not in your auction effects time spent aucing a particular item.

[Swish]

It depends what you're putting up. If it's a JBB/hiero/fungi etc I'd expect the tunnel fat cats to jump on that kind of thing as its worth their while making a few k trying to flip it.

Listed a JBB at 22k last week and managed to get an offer of 21k which I was okay with. I feel like if I hadn't put a price next to it I'd have had fat cats offering ~18k

[drktmplr12]

I wish I had your luck. Even when I do put the price in the auction, I get lowball offers. I do not think either putting a price or not in your auction effects time spent aucing a particular item.

most important is being there at the right time

[Juevento]

words

I think you quoted the wrong dude. I don't care for instancing at all.

The classholes are the daldaens of the world who think that making things worse just cause that's how they were in 1999 is a good idea.

[Swish]

The attitude of "if I spam my auction 2-3 times in quick succession it's more likely to sell", or in ooc/shout :p

[Daldaen]

Ranger hate is as retarded as emo hate in 2003, bieber/twilight hate in 2009, and then white male hate in 2014. People love to get on childish little hate bandwagons even when things have zero affect on their lives.

Wait, when did white male hate happen? I missed that one.

[Buellen]

What i hate

1) People who do not grasp what the goal of this server is all about.

From main page

----ABOUT THIS SERVER---
Project 1999 started development in 2008, and was released in October of 2009. The mission of the project is to create the classic feeling that many had during the early days of Everquest during those time periods, starting with Classic content and releasing the other expansions and content on a similar timeline that was experienced on Live. The server will stop at Velious, at which point many options will be considered, including possible custom content that will maintain the spirit of the game, and/or an additional new server starting over at Pre-Kunark.

Project 1999 Red is a PvP Server run with the same framework as the main server, with some modifications for a better Classic PvP Experience. The PvP Server started in Classic and will follow a similar but slightly escalated timeline.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOW SEE THESE NAME BELOW THEY ARE VOLUNTEERING THEIR FREE TIME TO MAKE THIS SERVER HAPPEN.

Server Staff
Management
Nilbog Project Founder & Manager; Content Developer; Goblin
Rogean Project Manager; Server Administrator; Programmer

Development
Haynar Programmer
Kanras Programmer / Content Developer
Alecta Programmer
Sundawg Content Developer

Game Support
Sirken CSR GM - Lead
Derubael CSR GM - Investigations
Eunomia CSR Senior Guide
Aussie CSR Guide
Moregan CSR Guide

-------------------------------------------------------------------

[Buellen]

since said people who don't understand server goals will prob not read my wall of text.

read my signature under my character names.

[sox7d]

Wait, when did white male hate happen? I missed that one.

Maybe its because I have quite a few friends in portland and the rest are still college students, but my facebook news feed has been nothing but "NEW STUDY FINDS 90% OF MEN WOULD RAPE IF THEY WOULDN'T GET CAUGHT" "Why male privilege is THE reason you aren't happy with your life," "If you're white, your opinion is completely invalid, here's why" articles for the last 2 years. Anyone that disagrees with them gets a fedora affixed to their head and a beard sewn into their necks.

[Briscoe]

I'm just waiting for Juevento to post his CV...

[Hetjan]

Nilbog lies.

"
Nilbog:

" I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy."

"

But recreation of classic is making me happy. Thanks!

Thing that makes me most annoyed is folks who can't appreciate this enough to STFU when they feel like whining. Go away.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Maybe its because I have quite a few friends in portland and the rest are still college students, but my facebook news feed has been nothing but "NEW STUDY FINDS 90% OF MEN WOULD RAPE IF THEY WOULDN'T GET CAUGHT" "Why male privilege is THE reason you aren't happy with your life," "If you're white, your opinion is completely invalid, here's why" articles for the last 2 years. Anyone that disagrees with them gets a fedora affixed to their head and a beard sewn into their necks.

same shit in san francisco. thankfully the most annoying ones are getting squeezed out by the tech industry

[applesauce25r624]

whining about bards

get mad

[Emile]

Tryhards trying to be Furor 2.0 internet badasses.

[Xer0]

Nilbog lies.

"
Nilbog:

" I'll keep making classic changes when I can, regardless if people threaten to quit. I'm here to recreate classic eq; not to make people happy."

"

But recreation of classic is making me happy. Thanks!

Thing that makes me most annoyed is folks who can't appreciate this enough to STFU when they feel like whining. Go away.


The thing that annoys me most is people crying about people simply expressing their opinion in a thread that asked for it.

Posts like this just illustrate what is meant by 'difficulty' or 'challenging' is completely missed by those who post them. No, maps did not make it easier to kill Nagafen for a raid already there. But without them, you can sure tell the difference between a player who knew SolB from one who didn't, couldn't you? The one who did was buffing people at giants while rogues drag the one who didn't from where they died to bats.

And that's what is being referred to. Things that allowed players to be differentiated from each other by their playing abilities, and that didn't just mean how much dps they did.

There WERE things that were pointless and safely removable without worry - spellbook meditation, for instance. But for the most part, convenience things that removed the need for players to become better players are not here and never will be here, and that's good. EQ was never about players who thought "being a perpetual noob" was a badge of honor. Classic EQ rewarded those who made an effort more than those who didn't, and that's what we want to maintain.

So basically removing the map allows you to more effectively be an an exclusionary elitest? That's the only benefit I can see from being able to tell who knows the layout of the area anymore. And how would using in game maps prevent a person from becoming a better player or from learning the areas any more than wiki maps do?

Also I am not saying I'm a perpetual newb and touting it as a badge of honor,I'm just being honest; I've never,not even in my years of live (late velious - gates of discord or Ldon, forget) made it to sixty and I am perpetually relearning the game.

Actually perhaps I should wear it as a badge of honor, means I haven't beens pending the last 20 years playing the same game :)

since said people who don't understand server goals will prob not read my wall of text.

read my signature under my character names.

qq we've read it all before doesn't mean we have to agree that adding maps = making eq easy. That was just one of the changes that came along with the changes that ruiend the game for you apparent oldschool hardcores, and you get butthurt at anything that resembles Luclin and beyond, regardless as to whether or not it's what actually ruined the game (it didn't)

[planeofdreams]

So basically removing the map allows you to more effectively be an an exclusionary elitest?

Haha, come on man. Horse is dead, stop kicking it.

[Xer0]

Haha, come on man. Horse is dead, stop kicking it.

I'll stop kicking it when they stop putting ir directly in front of my feet

[stakha]

Arguments about the correct implementation of the in-game map function

[Xer0]

Arguments about the correct implementation of the in-game map function

All I've done is share my opinion in a thread that asked for it. Talk to the butthurt hardcores about their argumentative nature.

I mean honestly, it's not even as if I'm trying to get the map reimplemented, I'm just saying it was silly to remove it int he first place.

How shitty of a person do you have to be to get so bent out of shape over someone having a differing opinion?

[myriverse]

Also if that's not classic why do we allow use of the wiki maps? Same feature, just not in game. Were wiki's a thing back then?
There were not Wikis, but there were various websites, which were sort of prototypes for Wikis.

But I agree. I just don't see the difference between plotting points and paths on a screen and doing it on paper. There was nothing at all about the ingame map that made the game easier.

Anyway, the philosophy I hate most is the general "classic" grognardism. Next is the Bard hate (just don't get it).

[86753o9]

People who are really just here because it's free and want project 1999 to basically become a free version of live.

[Mentathiel]

2) people who put prices in their auctions thinking it will sell the item quicker (hint: it won't!)
I hate having to look up prices in the wiki, then get told that they want 100pp for an item listed as 30pp.

If you want 100pp, why not just tell people so they can ignore you?

Also, the auction tracker which lists the prices for the wiki only works because people quote their asking price in /auc.

[Swish]

Had that today. 3.5k for a granite bracer... move along fat cat :P

If more people run the auction tracker while they're in EC and upload the data it'll be better for buyers.

[stakha]

I'm going to start responding to serious low ball offers with a counter offer that's higher than what I was originally asking

[Mirana]

People who fail to understand that people play this game for different reasons and with different agendas.

[drktmplr12]

There were not Wikis, but there were various websites, which were sort of prototypes for Wikis.

But I agree. I just don't see the difference between plotting points and paths on a screen and doing it on paper. There was nothing at all about the ingame map that made the game easier.

I just want to point out that the interactive nature of an in game map is completely different than having a map on another monitor or printed out (this is how i did it in 2000) on your desk. Your character is a little "+" in the center. I could navigate through an entire zone without even looking at anything 3D, just by navigating my little "+" through the map that someone else made. I think directions along the lines of "follow the left wall until" is a testament to the difference between no map and an interactive map.

Anyone else ever buy this? EQ Atlas (http://www.amazon.com/EverQuest-Atlas-PC/dp/B000069K5R/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1422371231&sr=8-7&keywords=eq+atlas) I loved mine. Had lore and points of interest, but it was lost/thrown out one time i moved. Sad.

[drktmplr12]

People who are really just here because it's free and want project 1999 to basically become a free version of live.

amen.

[Bristlebard]

I'm going to start responding to serious low ball offers with a counter offer that's higher than what I was originally asking

/nod

[Xer0]

I just want to point out that the interactive nature of an in game map is completely different than having a map on another monitor or printed out (this is how i did it in 2000) on your desk. Your character is a little "+" in the center. I could navigate through an entire zone without even looking at anything 3D, just by navigating my little "+" through the map that someone else made. I think directions along the lines of "follow the left wall until" is a testament to the difference between no map and an interactive map.

Anyone else ever buy this? EQ Atlas (http://www.amazon.com/EverQuest-Atlas-PC/dp/B000069K5R/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1422371231&sr=8-7&keywords=eq+atlas) I loved mine. Had lore and points of interest, but it was lost/thrown out one time i moved. Sad.


>Implying people pay attention to anything but the zone wall when attempting to navigate around a zone for the first time.


We're all aware that you don't get a cursor to follow your character, but it does not make the game itself any easier, and that right there is what I cannot stand. People think in order for the game to be good and challenging it has to be a stripped down barebones featureless mockup of a game and that simply is not true.

Unless the great challenge EQ posed to you was attempting to find a specific area in a zone, you've posed an entirely pointless argument.

Keep in mind I'm not at all trying to get the maps back, in the few months since I've returned I've managed to get most of the zones down pat (well trulyn I never forgot most of it from my last stint in '14), I just find the attitude of most of the "shits classic" fanatics to be nothing short of deplorable.

[Ravager]

Umless the great challenge EQ posed to you was attempting to find a specific area in a zone, that's a pointless argument.

That, in fact, was one of the great challenges. Getting lost in EQ was a dangerous thing and made Norrath a much larger world.

[Nirgon]

Instance on "classic" instead of making the game better.

classic is in the eye of the beholder

[Tolyn]

I refresh every 24 seconds when locking down Chardok Royals Hallway. I also happen to never run OOM or have trouble getting started again should I die when some unmentioned cleric think casting Celestial Elixir on me at 20% is sufficient healing.


Just wanted to say thanks for this! Lately I had been using mesmorize when charming. However last night I kept it out even when not and used it as primary while grouped in Droga. Very pleasantly surprised at lowered mana consumption allowing me additional mobility.

Respectfully,
-T

[86753o9]

I just want to point out that the interactive nature of an in game map is completely different than having a map on another monitor or printed out (this is how i did it in 2000) on your desk. Your character is a little "+" in the center. I could navigate through an entire zone without even looking at anything 3D, just by navigating my little "+" through the map that someone else made. I think directions along the lines of "follow the left wall until" is a testament to the difference between no map and an interactive map.

Anyone else ever buy this? EQ Atlas (http://www.amazon.com/EverQuest-Atlas-PC/dp/B000069K5R/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1422371231&sr=8-7&keywords=eq+atlas) I loved mine. Had lore and points of interest, but it was lost/thrown out one time i moved. Sad.
Nope but I did have a binder of maps I downloaded and printed from EQatlas. Which is where p99wiki got it's zone maps btw.

[Xer0]

That, in fact, was one of the great challenges. Getting lost in EQ was a dangerous thing and made Norrath a much larger world.

not if you use maps out of game (everyone does)

Since I started playing on p99 I've not got lost once (truly pants shittingly lost i.e. playing in 2000, night blind and lost in gfay) despite the lack of in game map. Why? Wiki maps and sense heading bindings. Your point is moot.

Again I urge you to keep in mind: I'm not trying to get maps brought back, I just want to point out the attitude people carry here in regards to simple things like a map and compass is absolutely absurd

[Ele]

We're all aware that you don't get a cursor to follow your character, but it does not make the game itself any easier, and that right there is what I cannot stand.

What is your definition of easier? Because with the commonly accepted definition you keep misusing the word.

[Xer0]

No sir, I'm fairly certain I'm not. Maps just dont make games easier, plain and simple.

No night blindness definitely makes the game easier. Being able to see the rest of the world while medding also makes the game easier.

It's the simple things like the way a mob resisting one cast can spell the difference between a ding and a death, painfully slow hp/mana regen, and just the general unforgiving nature of the game mechanics that spell out a challenge.. NOT whether or not I can hit a button and bring up maps (Protip: I can do this anyway with the steam overlay)

[Ravager]

not if you use maps out of game (everyone does)

Since I started playing on p99 I've not got lost once (truly pants shittingly lost i.e. playing in 2000, night blind and lost in gfay) despite the lack of in game map. Why? Wiki maps and sense heading bindings. Your point is moot.

Again I urge you to keep in mind: I'm not trying to get maps brought back, I just want to point out the attitude people carry here in regards to simplethings like a map and compass is absolutely incredulous.

Not really moot. There's a difference between looking at a map, using Sense Heading, /loc and landmarks to determine where you are and having a HUD with an arrow representing exactly where you are and where you are facing. In one scenario you're told where you are, the other you still have to figure it out for yourself.

But you need to be right, so I digress, you are absolutely 100% right.

[Joyelle]

Just wanted to say thanks for this! Lately I had been using mesmorize when charming. However last night I kept it out even when not and used it as primary while grouped in Droga. Very pleasantly surprised at lowered mana consumption allowing me additional mobility.

Respectfully,
-T

Please do not overinflate his ego. It's in danger of exploding already.

[Xer0]

Not really moot. There's a difference between looking at a map, using Sense Heading, /loc and landmarks to determine where you are and having a HUD with an arrow representing exactly where you are and where you are facing. In one scenario you're told where you are, the other you still have to figure it out for yourself.

But you need to be right, so I digress, you are absolutely 100% right.

/loc is not required. I've never become proficient with the location system and I get around quite nicely. Basically they removed 2 wholly unnecessary steps (discerning /loc, cross referencing with external map) with the addition of the in game map. That's it. It basically saves time and a small (even minute) amount of effort.. aka people spend more time in game, playing, rather than treating it as a chore or a project they must do research on before undertaking. To say removing that this made the game effectively more challenging is just silly.

[Daldaen]

Please do not overinflate his ego. It's in danger of exploding already.

Ideally before I turn into a pumpkin at midnight.

Us Florida people have to go to bed early because of all these 3PM dinner specials. Can't stay up too late or you get hungry again.

[maskedmelon]

/loc is not required. I've never become proficient with the location system and I get around quite nicely. Basically they removed 2 wholly unnecessary steps (discerning /loc, cross referencing with external map) with the addition of the in game map. That's it. It basically saves time and a small (even minute) amount of effort.. aka people spend more time in game, playing, rather than treating it as a chore or a project they must do research on before undertaking. To say removing that this made the game effectively more challenging is just silly.

Right, so if we summarize your arguments thus far we have:

1. Maps do not make things easier.
2. Your definition of easier is no different from the ordinary definition.
3. Maps just make things take less time and effort.

Let's take a look at the 1st entry from dictionary. Com for the word easy:

"Not hard or difficult; requiring no great labor or effort."

Now "easier" is a comparative form of "easier." This means something that is easier requires less effort. One of your conclusions is therefore false.

Let's take a look at another of your arguments:

People who embrace a classic approach to development also oppose night blindness.

This appears to be a strawman/ad hominem because it mischaracterizes the position of those it is supposedly intended to represent with the sole purpose of support an argument against them. Thus far no such persons have come forward to support this assertion . In fact all respondents thus far have acted contrary to your assertion. Your assertion therefore is either false or the respondents are not representative of the group to which they claim to belong. Which do you suppose is the case?

Whether maps make hints easier or more fun, etc. is irrelevant in light of the goal of his project. You are entitled to your own opinions, but please do not mischaracterize those of others in an attempt to invalidate their argument. That is dishonest and disruptive if intentional. We all make mistakes though, so no big deal if you were sincere in your belief. It is also possible that you are still right, there just does not appear to be any evidence to that effect at the moment. Should you find any, please do not hesitate to share ^^

[Xer0]

Right, so if we summarize your arguments thus far we have:

1. Maps do not make things easier.
2. Your definition of easier is no different from the ordinary definition.
3. Maps just make things take less time and effort.

Let's take a look at the 1st entry from dictionary. Com for the word easy:

"Not hard or difficult; requiring no great labor or effort."

Now "easier" is a comparative form of "easier." This means something that is easier requires less effort. One of your conclusions is therefore false.

Let's take a look at another of your arguments:

People who embrace a classic approach to development also oppose night blindness.

This appears to be a strawman/ad hominem because it mischaracterizes the position of those it is supposedly intended to represent with the sole purpose of support an argument against them. Thus far no such persons have come forward to support this assertion . In fact all respondents thus far have acted contrary to your assertion. Your assertion therefore is either false or the respondents are not representative of the group to which they claim to belong. Which do you suppose is the case?

Whether maps make hints easier or more fun, etc. is irrelevant in light of the goal of his project. You are entitled to your own opinions, but please do not mischaracterize those of others in an attempt to invalidate their argument. That is dishonest and disruptive if intentional. We all make mistakes though, so no big deal if you were sincere in your belief. It is also possible that you are still right, there just does not appear to be any evidence to that effect at the moment. Should you find any, please do not hesitate to share ^^

If you really think it's difficult to discern your location by cross referencing a map.. I'm afraid you don't know the meaning of adversity.

Nice try with the big words! That entire post was completely unnecessary however. Look at the threads title and then look at what I said. I was participating in the thread, whilst you're beating a dead horse. I've said more than once it's not my goal or desire to get the maps in game, I just can't stand the 2hardcore4u attitude people get over nonsensical things like an in-game map.

That's not even mentioning they already had a perfectly good reason for removing the maps, and that was to disarm assholes using showeq.

[Glenzig]

Thanks to this inane map discussion, I hate this thread.

[sox7d]

Thanks to this inane map discussion, I hate this thread.

You hate everything, though.

[Glenzig]

You hate everything, though.

Not true. I love myself. :)

[Xer0]

Not true. I love myself. :)

Nothing inane about it ya big jerk

[sox7d]

IMO, the factors that give EQ the feeling of being a world rather than a game are (in order):

-No maps/GPS
-Rarely used third/second person view, but that's kind of out of the window on this server
-No PoK
-No bazaar
-Little soloability

All this shit is in every other MMORPG, P99 is a sacred bastion in my opinion. Play literally ANYTHING else.

[Ezalor]

To all reading this, abandon thread now. It devolved into a semantic debate about the definition of "easy"

I foresee this continuing for the next 10 pages since "getting the last word in in my internet argument about Everquest" is apparently Xer0's #1 daytime priority

[Xer0]

To all reading this, abandon thread now. It devolved into a semantic debate about the definition of "easy"

I foresee this continuing for the next 10 pages since Xer0 insists on getting the last word in to "win an internet argument about Everquest" is his #1 daytime priority
So there's somethng wrong with me responding to people who are replying to my remarks? That's fresh :)

[maskedmelon]

On topic:

1. Hybrid hate / shared xp penalty fear (players w/ penalties effectively consume xp as if they were 2 or so levels higher. That's it).
2. NBG fanaticism and other exploitations of sound logic applied to false premises.
3. EQcommerce hate - if you don't like a price, don't accept it. There is no reason to b offended.
4. Legitimization of exploits due to classic nature.

[August]

People who don't put prices in their auctions thinking they can con people into a shitty "offer" deal ;)

I always list with prices, people are either interested and send a tell... or they're not and I can deal with it.

Nobody tries to lowball, and I get the price I want (or near enough)

Surprisingly enough there are many reasons people do many things.

In my experience people will always lowball if you put a price on it. If I would ever put prices on my items, I'd list them about 10% above my desired margin just to get what I want for it.

I constantly sell my BS jewelry @ my desired price point while other people undercut each other into infinity on the exact same items. The tunnel is not as liquid as people seem to think (If I drop my price by 200pp someone will buy right now!!!!).

[stormlord]

Rangers never deserved the hate they received. They were a powerful class. The ~40% experience penalty was just a cheap overestimation compensation for their powers. Personally, as a player who played a ranger to 85 and played one when EQ was a baby, I think the experience penalty was a nod to our greatness. It's like THE MAN comes over to you and knocks you down because you're too NINJA. THE MAN has a reputation so you'll just continue on being king in hiding. And that's what I did. I enojoyed every opportunity to cast a snare or root to save someone's butt or to cast some heals and defy the "Ranges can't heal!" popular sentiments. Of course I could have sat back and watched them die, and sometimes I had to to keep the whole "Rangers suck" thing alive. Becuse even on the best days, I knew THE MAN was watching us from behind hte curtain.

[kaev]

IMO, the factors that give EQ the feeling of being a world rather than a game are (in order):

-No maps/GPS
-No third/second person view, but that's kind of out of the window on this server
-No PoK
-No bazaar
-Little soloability

All this shit is in every other MMORPG, P99 is a sacred bastion in my opinion. Play literally ANYTHING else.

Dude, 3rd person and transparent UI were avail in Kunark for sure, don't recall using them pre-Kunark so maybe not original or maybe I just didn't know about them yet, but 3rd person is definitely a classic (i.e. pre-Luclin) EQ mechanic.

I preferred 1st person pov but used to use 3rd person when travelling all the time on live. As an example, a naked L20 warrior on CR could run unsowed from FV to corpse out in LoIO with 3rd-person (via F9) with 100% success. It broke the awesome immersion of 1st person view but avoided a lot of deaths when travelling alone.

Also, Necros had solo'd damned near everything except Naggy/Vox before Kunark came out. Soloability only sucked for warrior, paladin, cleric, and rogue, that's way less than half the classes.

[sox7d]

fixed it

[pheerie]

without reading the rest of the thread... the typical badass forum/game troll with a thousand inside jokes and inside digs and insults, that thinks this makes them special somehow. This is pretty much the same as any internet community. Somehow it seems more douchy here though.

[Xer0]

without reading the rest of the thread... the typical badass forum/game troll with a thousand inside jokes and inside digs and insults, that thinks this makes them special somehow. This is pretty much the same as any internet community. Somehow it seems more douchy here though.

all my this :P

[Paleman]

2) people who put prices in their auctions thinking it will sell the item quicker (hint: it won't!)
3) people who use the words guy, bro, pal, or friend.

I'm not your friend, guy.

hey bropal, newsflash. it does sell things faster for you. It tells the buyer what you are looking for in terms of price and sets a starting point for negotiating a final price. It also helps people that dont want to look up the going price rate for every item that you are selling.

[Rayzor84]

Douche immature players who, while in the wrong, insist u wronged them and try to tell people not to group with u or threaten to leave if u join the group over personal issues.

Seems less adults play p1999 than live at the same era.

[sox7d]

Douche immature players who, while in the wrong, insist u wronged them and try to tell people not to group with u or threaten to leave if u join the group over personal issues.

Seems less adults play p1999 than live at the same era.

Somewhat related, I keep a mental list. If someone doesn't invite me into a group when they have room, I break my "invite any non-solo class by their second LFG call, regardless" rule.

[Rayzor84]

Immature players refusing to group with u/crying so a group won't take u over personal issues. Especially when that person got called out previously for camp stealing and training yet somehow I'm in the wrong. Seems like more child mentality in p1999 than in live during the same era. Said dude also gets kicked out of his guild for poor conduct and brags that he's joining Asgard now lmao.

Good luck with that when u can't resolve stupid issues for the good of a group. Strong endgame guild material.

Shit sorry repost, other post didn't show up for me until now and gave me errors.

[Rayzor84]

Somewhat related, I keep a mental list. If someone doesn't invite me into a group when they have room, I break my "invite any non-solo class by their second LFG call, regardless" rule.

Yeah pretty much. Dude cost me a Sol b group I traveled from feerrott to join after being invited. I join, he cries and group asks me to leave. Np but actions have consequences, especially when he was the dick originally In the situation he's mad about. Mad bc I called him out on the forum. Now he can be extra mad, since instead of taking my offer to bury the hatchet he decided to be a child.

If any member of an endgame guild has a question about who this player is feel free to PM me.

Bonus: dude says he can ruin my grouping From here on out. Dude I'm a chanter, ur a paladin. good luck with that.

[Paleman]

people who take advantage of any gray area to just be an asshole or a sore thumb to others. Just because you can get away with some things, it doesnt mean you should, and it doesnt make you look good. Stop being a fucktard.

[August]

hey bropal, newsflash. it does sell things faster for you. It tells the buyer what you are looking for in terms of price and sets a starting point for negotiating a final price. It also helps people that dont want to look up the going price rate for every item that you are selling.

You are everything wrong with the box! /s

Also I'm not quite sure how this is a legit thread. This is basically 'List what you hate about the box' and people who are among the list saying 'Nu uh! I'm right and YOU'RE Wrong! Let's fight about it!'. Nothing constructive is happening here, only people getting butthurt because they have been putting prices in their auctions for so long and are only now realizing how dumb they are.

[Paleman]

You are everything wrong with the box! /s

Also I'm not quite sure how this is a legit thread. This is basically 'List what you hate about the box' and people who are among the list saying 'Nu uh! I'm right and YOU'RE Wrong! Let's fight about it!'. Nothing constructive is happening here, only people getting butthurt because they have been putting prices in their auctions for so long and are only now realizing how dumb they are.

this is a legit thread because someone started a new thread and pressed submit, nothing more.

also whats dumber? Arguing about peoples attitudes in an old game or arguing about how people argue over an old game?

I'd rather have the whole " the way they destroyed the death star is pretty implausible" arguement.

the point is, trees.

[Decad]

I hate having to look up prices in the wiki, then get told that they want 100pp for an item listed as 30pp.

If you want 100pp, why not just tell people so they can ignore you?

Also, the auction tracker which lists the prices for the wiki only works because people quote their asking price in /auc.

Or people who try to low ball you on an item price so they can try to flip it. And when you tell them your prices ( which is already close to wiki), they start to act like you are being a fool

[Decad]

People who play a powerful class ( eg shaman, enchanter) that is both group and solo friendly whining about their class being underprivileged and deserve better treatment.

[myriverse]

people who take advantage of any gray area to just be an asshole or a sore thumb to others. Just because you can get away with some things, it doesnt mean you should, and it doesnt make you look good. Stop being a fucktard.
It's only common sense that the seller set the initial price.

But don't sweat it... common sense ain't too common.

[Troubled]

"Variance does anything besides shit up the raid scene."

[Brut]

- Bards thinking that running 60% of an outdoor zone's population in circles for 30minutes is cool and fine. Then reaching lvl52 and joining kc groups thinking all they have to do is flick manasong on and alt tab away (all they can do since they haven't actually played their class at all).

- People demanding that you MUST do some assist message. The tank is clearly swinging at something, it's an SK and it just cast disease cloud. Just make an /assist hotkey and use it when you see the guy doing his cast animation. Manage your aggro, don't jump in early - why does the tank have to be the guy who does all the work just so you can autopilot it?

- The idea some have that if you pick race X or Y you are a filthy minmaxer. You cannot be an ogre because you like them for cosmetic reasons or lore. You must be doing it for those stats. Iksar necro/shm? Clearly for the regen only. Halfling? Wants to level a bit faster.

- People joining PUGs while they're on standby for some dragon batphones. Nothing more retarded than clearing down to crypt, then your cleric WC caps out because maestro spawned. Wut? Just make a guild group if you got crap in window.

- Ridiculous need to haggle in EC. This one guy was selling NoS, asked price, tells me a price. I'm like "okay, wru". He goes "OH SORRY I MEANT [adds 10k to price]". Replied with "pfft" and for the next 5-10minutes he reduces 1-2k at a time until he was back at the original price.

- People thinking red is worthwhile at this point.

[Tehwoot]

"I have 300k into my monk twink, and Im going to KS and steal from you all evening, than ask for sow."

[Mentathiel]

How about the implication that there is one way to play, one goal and one mission? There are too many people stuck in one mindset who can't imagine being wrong and they end up screaming at each other on the forums. For every reasoned discussion of what the best breastplate is for a mid-level rogue, you get a vitriolic tirade about why people who play bards should be taken into the street and shot.

I know forums tend to be a spawning ground for polemicism, but how can there be so many trolls on the forums when the (blue) server has such a decent community?

[firesyde424]

People who roll on items that another class in the group needs, because that item is worth a lot.

Breath of Harmony dropped? What's that bard? It's a serious upgrade from your Crystalline Blade? But it's worth 5K! How can you be so greedy as to ask for that bard only weapon to replace your current weapon when I, the wizard, need it to sell so that I can finally afford that manastone I've been saving up for. Here, you can have this Ykeshan War Club, it's only worth 80 plat.

It's hypocritical to let the monk have the Baton of Faith if he can use it, that's only worth 100pp or so. But when a tstaff drops, everyone rolls because it's worth 30K.

[Tenlaar]

People who roll on items that another class in the group needs, because that item is worth a lot.

Breath of Harmony dropped? What's that bard? It's a serious upgrade from your Crystalline Blade? But it's worth 5K! How can you be so greedy as to ask for that bard only weapon to replace your current weapon when I, the wizard, need it to sell so that I can finally afford that manastone I've been saving up for. Here, you can have this Ykeshan War Club, it's only worth 80 plat.

It's hypocritical to let the monk have the Baton of Faith if he can use it, that's only worth 100pp or so. But when a tstaff drops, everyone rolls because it's worth 30K.

Prepare thyself.

[Paleman]

It's only common sense that the seller set the initial price.

But don't sweat it... common sense ain't too common.

obviously reading what you are quoting isnt as common as one would think either.

[maskedmelon]

I'd rather have the whole " the way they destroyed the death star is pretty implausible" arguement.



Well, what is most implausible is that they did essentially the same thing twice... The part that troubles me most is that both of them began construction a the same time, so why the difference in exhaust port size between the two?

We also have "the shot" to consider I don't care how many womprats Luke bullseyed in his T16, at no point was his shot required make an abrupt 90 degree turn and then travel a distance equal to the radius if a small moon with zero further lateral movement... I know an object the size of the Death Star would have it' own gravity, but come on.

On that note the docking bay layout doesn't make much sense either. Even with an artificial gravity to keep their feet planted, the Death Star's natural gravity would still exert a considerable influence....


^^

[Mentathiel]

Well, what is most implausible is that they did essentially the same thing twice... The part that troubles me most is that both of them began construction a the same time, so why the difference in exhaust port size between the two?

We also have "the shot" to consider I don't care how many womprats Luke bullseyed in his T16, at no point was his shot required make an abrupt 90 degree turn and then travel a distance equal to the radius if a small moon with zero further lateral movement... I know an object the size of the Death Star would have it' own gravity, but come on.

On that note the docking bay layout doesn't make much sense either. Even with an artificial gravity to keep their feet planted, the Death Star's natural gravity would still exert a considerable influence....
It was all a conspiracy and SW:ANH is just the official version of events.

Think about it; there's one known survivor of the Death Star's explosion and what he just happens to have the same last name as the farm-boy who magically made a shot which requires a 90 degree turn? What about the fact that he somehow fails to shoot down that x-wing despite being one of the best fighter pilots in the galaxy.

And then he and his son were the only witnesses when the emperor was assassinated? How convenient...

[Daldaen]

People who roll on items that another class in the group needs, because that item is worth a lot.

Breath of Harmony dropped? What's that bard? It's a serious upgrade from your Crystalline Blade? But it's worth 5K! How can you be so greedy as to ask for that bard only weapon to replace your current weapon when I, the wizard, need it to sell so that I can finally afford that manastone I've been saving up for. Here, you can have this Ykeshan War Club, it's only worth 80 plat.

It's hypocritical to let the monk have the Baton of Faith if he can use it, that's only worth 100pp or so. But when a tstaff drops, everyone rolls because it's worth 30K.

Basically the argument people will give you is this:

5k is 5k. Whether it's in the form of a Breath of Harmony to that bard, a Band of Eternal Flame to that wizard, Cobalt Vambraces to the Warrior, a pair of SoS to a Monk, or Golden Efreeti Boots to a Druid. Sure it takes time to sell then buy. But every item with monetary value can be transformed into something useful for most everyone in the group.

I tend to think that's a fair assessment. What grinds my Vermiculated Tunic, is when people roll on something like an epic piece MQ. Probably most specific would be the KC Pipe for Monk Epic. Yes, you can sell them for a few thousand plat. But if a monk is attempting to do his epic legit IMO let him have it. If he already has his epic or no monk is in group, yea roll to sell the MQ.

[Paleman]

Well, what is most implausible is that they did essentially the same thing twice... The part that troubles me most is that both of them began construction a the same time, so why the difference in exhaust port size between the two?

We also have "the shot" to consider I don't care how many womprats Luke bullseyed in his T16, at no point was his shot required make an abrupt 90 degree turn and then travel a distance equal to the radius if a small moon with zero further lateral movement... I know an object the size of the Death Star would have it' own gravity, but come on.

On that note the docking bay layout doesn't make much sense either. Even with an artificial gravity to keep their feet planted, the Death Star's natural gravity would still exert a considerable influence....


^^



or we just witnessed luke using his jedi powers for the first time. You obviously dont understand that obi wan's midichlorian spirit was actually holding up a midichlorian force board so that luke could bank shot that shit into the exhaust port with his weak bud evolving jedi powers. We know at this point that luke was aware of the force but not fully trained, so we cant say for sure that it was lukes use of the force ( though it may have been) so the obi wan spirit backboard goal assist is the only other plausible explanation. Here is an illustration of my working theory. Notice obi wans corporeal form and words of encouragement.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/identikit/starwarstheory_zpseffc08af.png

[Erati]

I tend to think that's a fair assessment. What grinds my Robe of the Spring, is when people roll on something like an epic piece MQ. Probably most specific would be the KC Pipe for Monk Epic. .

FTFY

[HeallunRumblebelly]

- Bards thinking that running 60% of an outdoor zone's population in circles for 30minutes is cool and fine. Then reaching lvl52 and joining kc groups thinking all they have to do is flick manasong on and alt tab away (all they can do since they haven't actually played their class at all).

- People demanding that you MUST do some assist message. The tank is clearly swinging at something, it's an SK and it just cast disease cloud. Just make an /assist hotkey and use it when you see the guy doing his cast animation. Manage your aggro, don't jump in early - why does the tank have to be the guy who does all the work just so you can autopilot it?

- The idea some have that if you pick race X or Y you are a filthy minmaxer. You cannot be an ogre because you like them for cosmetic reasons or lore. You must be doing it for those stats. Iksar necro/shm? Clearly for the regen only. Halfling? Wants to level a bit faster.

- People joining PUGs while they're on standby for some dragon batphones. Nothing more retarded than clearing down to crypt, then your cleric WC caps out because maestro spawned. Wut? Just make a guild group if you got crap in window.

- Ridiculous need to haggle in EC. This one guy was selling NoS, asked price, tells me a price. I'm like "okay, wru". He goes "OH SORRY I MEANT [adds 10k to price]". Replied with "pfft" and for the next 5-10minutes he reduces 1-2k at a time until he was back at the original price.

- People thinking red is worthwhile at this point.

Found your problem, Brut. You've been interacting with the community again. As long as you stay within the raid bubble so much of that goes away :P I don't think I've leveled a character outside of chardok in a year at least. Pretty sure the only 50-60 not chardok was either skyfire AE or duo'ing freeti with an ench (dem double manastones yo).

[Whirled]

http://img1.coolspacetricks.com/images/commentgraphics/funny/81633.jpg

[Nirgon]

-People thinking red is worthwhile at this point. (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1744833&postcount=731)

[TheBlackSheep]

content (velious 2016!!) should be what makes the game more challenging NOT removing the ability to use a map, compass, hotkeys, spellbookless meditation, etc.. these were added as quality of life changes and didn't make the game ezmode.

Thing is, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I never thought the game was overly challenging until I played other games, afterwards. Games that had all these convenience aspects. Then I came back to EQ on P99 back in 2011 and the first thing I thought was, "Jesus Christ, I don't remember this shit being this hard!" Well, no kidding. What did I have to compare it to at the time I played back in 1999? Nothing of it's genre. This is not an inherently challenging game. Other, later games are what make it difficult.

[Xer0]

People who roll on items that another class in the group needs, because that item is worth a lot.

Breath of Harmony dropped? What's that bard? It's a serious upgrade from your Crystalline Blade? But it's worth 5K! How can you be so greedy as to ask for that bard only weapon to replace your current weapon when I, the wizard, need it to sell so that I can finally afford that manastone I've been saving up for. Here, you can have this Ykeshan War Club, it's only worth 80 plat.

It's hypocritical to let the monk have the Baton of Faith if he can use it, that's only worth 100pp or so. But when a tstaff drops, everyone rolls because it's worth 30K.
I'm in agreement with you. I always consider whether and individual truly needs an item before rolling on it myself. I understand why people would go that way on something worth 30k, but at the same time I don't like it. Problem is with an item that valuable the odds that they're going to actually use it instead of sell it are pretty low.

So basically if an item isnt worth more than 1k I'm all about giving it up tot he class that needs it, beyond that.. sorry, but I dont trust you to keep it after "need"ing it.

[Lojik]

I hate when others ruin their own lands....they'll not ruin mine

[stakha]

People who roll on items that another class in the group needs, because that item is worth a lot.

Breath of Harmony dropped? What's that bard? It's a serious upgrade from your Crystalline Blade? But it's worth 5K! How can you be so greedy as to ask for that bard only weapon to replace your current weapon when I, the wizard, need it to sell so that I can finally afford that manastone I've been saving up for. Here, you can have this Ykeshan War Club, it's only worth 80 plat.

It's hypocritical to let the monk have the Baton of Faith if he can use it, that's only worth 100pp or so. But when a tstaff drops, everyone rolls because it's worth 30K.


This is a pretty illegitimate complain unless you agree on NBG ahead of time or it is implicit (when with friends/guildies)

[Halaman]

Crazy mudflation and not thinking its a problem for anybody that hasnt been here forever.

[Greengrocer]

Really pisses me off when I see people running around with rations and flasks of water.

Come on, people.

Fucking live a little!

[Buellen]

Post while tired never works

nothing to see here.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Really pisses me off when I see people running around with rations and flasks of water.

Come on, people.

Fucking live a little!

bloodwater and halfling pickles. i like to live dangerously.

[Ravager]

bloodwater and halfling pickles. i like to live dangerously.

Pickled Halfling or Freudian Slip?

[Brut]

Really pisses me off when I see people running around with rations and flasks of water.

Come on, people.

Fucking live a little!

Bazu runs with 6 varieties of pies and distributes to peck bretheren.

[planeofdreams]

Really pisses me off when I see people running around with rations and flasks of water.

Come on, people.

Fucking live a little!

Beetle Bake and Lizard Milk. Nothing like soul food to remind me of home.

Actually on topic; I don't like when people forget this is a game.

[Mentathiel]

Actually on topic; I don't like when people forget this is a game.
I like those moments when I can almost forget that it is a game.

Related to this, I kind of dislike the attitude that ignoring the naming policy is somehow 'cool' and going for joke names. I know the naming policy is not really enforced, but there are only so many times you can see names like "Ilike Torez" and "Portin Yourmama" before you stop chuckling and start wondering how many 14-year olds are playing this game.

I mean, making a temporary alt for the Koalindl pond called 'FishyKiller' is one thing, but how long does it take before you start to realise what a level 50 Monk named 'Ikick Urbutt' is going to say about you?

[MilanderTruewield]

I thought it was witty when I decided to make a necro on live. My main's name is Camien Ta`Mire, and the necro is Dekayd Ta`Mire. Dekayd, Decayed... the decayed Ta`Mire... meh, it was witty to me :D

[Kimm Bare|y]

Min/Max firegiants. Like can we dungeon crawl as a group of adventurers and not QQ about <insert your grievance here>? SRSLY

[Burrito]

When somebody watches you die then jacks your camp.

I mean its totally on me, but sometimes the server is against you and sometimes my brain stops working.

[TheBlackSheep]

Min/Max firegiants. Like can we dungeon crawl as a group of adventurers and not QQ about <insert your grievance here>? SRSLY

Right on. It's like the people who are experiencing something awesome and are more concerned with getting a good selfie. Just enjoy the experience for once folks, damn.

[Othniel626]

Mostly had good experiences on this server so far.

But, by far, the worst has been running to Inn #1 in EC with 2+ lions/lionesses expecting the guard to kill them just to get there in time to see a halfling druid strike him down, loot, and run away.

Welp, I guess I have a good landmark for where my body will be.

[Mentathiel]

Sad lonely little boys who seem to equate 'pick-up group' and 'pick up artist' in their minds. I have been invited to an inn room for some 'private time' and have been offered buffs / ports in return for a naked /dance more than once. This isn't the worst game server for it, but there's still something sad about little boys begging you to shake your low-res pixels for them.

[Ezalor]

Sad lonely little boys who seem to equate 'pick-up group' and 'pick up artist' in their minds. I have been invited to an inn room for some 'private time' and have been offered buffs / ports in return for a naked /dance more than once. This isn't the worst game server for it, but there's still something sad about little boys begging you to shake your low-res pixels for them.

I have a hard time believing this as I have previously played female characters and never had anything even remotely similar happened otherwise I would've gladly taken any free items and ports.

[Rararboker]

When somebody watches you die then jacks your camp.

I mean its totally on me, but sometimes the server is against you and sometimes my brain stops working.


I'll do this and /cheer while targeting the mob.

[TheBlackSheep]

I have a hard time believing this as I have previously played female characters and never had anything even remotely similar happened otherwise I would've gladly taken any free items and ports.


I'm not saying it hasn't happened, but I've seen some pretty ridiculous shit over the last 16 years and this is a new one on me.

[Cecily]

Mostly had good experiences on this server so far.

But, by far, the worst has been running to Inn #1 in EC with 2+ lions/lionesses expecting the guard to kill them just to get there in time to see a halfling druid strike him down, loot, and run away.

Welp, I guess I have a good landmark for where my body will be.

That's honestly kinda funny.

[Othniel626]

That's honestly kinda funny.

It really was, though I could see it happening on live in 2001 to my 10 year old self, and being very upset haha.

[Mentathiel]

I have a hard time believing this as I have previously played female characters and never had anything even remotely similar happened otherwise I would've gladly taken any free items and ports.
It's rare on P1999, especially compared to games like WoW or D&D Online - the 'come back to my room' was one incident since I started playing and probably partly because I was running a naked dark-elf (corpse run) through Freeport - but it happens and given the PM I got while trying to get away, I know I was not the first he tried it on with.

[Swish]

lol I had some guy trying to hit on my paladin in Oasis, creepy as hell too.

Can see why some P99 girls play male characters.

[planeofdreams]

I like those moments when I can almost forget that it is a game.

Don't get me wrong, immersion is the game to me.

[maskedmelon]

It's rare on P1999, especially compared to games like WoW or D&D Online - the 'come back to my room' was one incident since I started playing and probably partly because I was running a naked dark-elf (corpse run) through Freeport - but it happens and given the PM I got while trying to get away, I know I was not the first he tried it on with.

I've only run into a few of these , but it always starts With them asking whether you are really a girl or not. I thought the best way to fix it was to simply start saying no, but the odd thing that I've found is that it doesn't matter how you respond they harass you anyway. I don't get it and just accept it as a part of the online environment. Still annoying though. -.- I just want to play my game and be left alone ^^

[Sajuuk]

Girls play P99?

*heavy breathing*

So sad to see nerds get all horny because a girl is playing the same game as them. One of my buddies girlfriend (who was actually really attractive) played wow and lots of nerds would instantly send her tells when she logged on. She joined a guild which on their forum had a RL pic thread and after she posted hers... omg... the amount of stuff she was giving... THE AMOUNT OF PIXELS AND GOLD WAS BLINDING, people were literally begging her to group with them. And those poor nerds never heard her laugh and make fun. She knew the benefit she just obtained and used it to the fullest extent. She was a good player too in her defense. so sad, and yes im jelly for all the free pixals i dont get ;p

But seriously, I never believe anyone saying they are a girl. Too many dudes playing female characters and lying hoping a lonely nerd gives them stuff. Wish I could get my gf on the EQ train, then we could split all the free pixels she gets.

GO PATRIOTS! FEEL OUR DEFLATED BALLS!

[sox7d]

Girls getting shit for being girls online probably happens all the time and it must be annoying to get messaged every time you log in by people you grouped with, but I wouldn't be surprised if they sometimes like the attention.

I was playing LoL last night with two of my friends and two wringers. Wringer1 starts shit talking me for not helping their lane and I call them out on not having personal responsibility. Shit gets heated and wringer1 then says, "kelly, these guys are assholes."

Most obvious bait I'd ever seen in my life, but I just ignored it rather than biting and saying "no wonder u suck, its cuz ur girl, girl don't play games, go make me a kitchen and get back in the sandwich! LOL"

Not to mention when I ran the video game club at my university. Some tumblrina came in, we welcomed her and she said, "Oh, I'm not here to play, I'm just here to observe sexism in the gaming community for my sociology project." I was fucking pissed but two of the club officers were also on the tumblr feminism kick at the time and said she could go for it. Apparently I was the only one who thought it was fucked up that someone would come into a club and say, "I got a hypothesis that you guys are assholes, mind if I stick around and record it?" Later found out she didn't find any instances of sexism and had to switch topics, rofl.

I know a lot of female gamers, and only one of them (one of the funniest/most-grounded people I know) plays male characters because they don't like the treatment.

[Mentathiel]

But seriously, I never believe anyone saying they are a girl.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/841/585/26f.gif

Too many dudes playing female characters and lying hoping a lonely nerd gives them stuff.
Interesting that you mention that; there's a sociology paper by Amy S. Bruckman [LINK (http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~asb/papers/gender-swapping.txt)] which touches on this and implies a way to tell the difference.

Many people, both male and female, enjoy the attention paid to female
characters. Male players will often log on as female characters and behave
suggestively, further encouraging sexual advances. Pavel Curtis has noted
that the most promiscuous and sexually aggressive women are usually played by
men. If you meet a character named "FabulousHotBabe," she is almost certainly
a he in real life.

[sox7d]

Quote:
Many people, both male and female, enjoy the attention paid to female
characters. Male players will often log on as female characters and behave
suggestively, further encouraging sexual advances. Pavel Curtis has noted
that the most promiscuous and sexually aggressive women are usually played by
men. If you meet a character named "FabulousHotBabe," she is almost certainly
a he in real life.

You don't fucking say.

[Trazic]

Mostly had good experiences on this server so far.

But, by far, the worst has been running to Inn #1 in EC with 2+ lions/lionesses expecting the guard to kill them just to get there in time to see a halfling druid strike him down, loot, and run away.

Welp, I guess I have a good landmark for where my body will be.

This happened to me the other day only I was on the other side.

I was trying to buy gear on my alt and while waiting decided to train a weapon skill on one of the guards. I saw a lowbie training a few cats toward the guard while it was still aggroed on me. I tried to kill the pumas for him in the guard's stead but failed to kill them before he died. I felt really bad...

[DarkwingDuck]

1) Powerleveling
2) people who put prices in their auctions thinking it will sell the item quicker (hint: it won't!)
3) people who use the words guy, bro, pal, or friend.

I'm not your friend, guy.

I'm pretty sure they include the price so they don't need to see the 6 messages saying how much? People can offer or not now, bro

[DarkwingDuck]

Maybe its because I have quite a few friends in portland and the rest are still college students, but my facebook news feed has been nothing but "NEW STUDY FINDS 90% OF MEN WOULD RAPE IF THEY WOULDN'T GET CAUGHT" "Why male privilege is THE reason you aren't happy with your life," "If you're white, your opinion is completely invalid, here's why" articles for the last 2 years. Anyone that disagrees with them gets a fedora affixed to their head and a beard sewn into their necks.

Lol wtf. Not even close to reality. Ps the people on your Facebook are scum . So that's what I hate

[DarkwingDuck]

The thing that annoys me most is people crying about people simply expressing their opinion in a thread that asked for it.



So basically removing the map allows you to more effectively be an an exclusionary elitest? That's the only benefit I can see from being able to tell who knows the layout of the area anymore. And how would using in game maps prevent a person from becoming a better player or from learning the areas any more than wiki maps do?

Also I am not saying I'm a perpetual newb and touting it as a badge of honor,I'm just being honest; I've never,not even in my years of live (late velious - gates of discord or Ldon, forget) made it to sixty and I am perpetually relearning the game.

Actually perhaps I should wear it as a badge of honor, means I haven't beens pending the last 20 years playing the same game :)



qq we've read it all before doesn't mean we have to agree that adding maps = making eq easy. That was just one of the changes that came along with the changes that ruiend the game for you apparent oldschool hardcores, and you get butthurt at anything that resembles Luclin and beyond, regardless as to whether or not it's what actually ruined the game (it didn't)

The game was good till GoD.. But best up to and including Velious.
Maps are for pussies. And I use mine on my iPad beside me. Makes zero difference.
I hate people that hate that we don't have maps to hate

[Lilah]

Girls getting shit for being girls online probably happens all the time and it must be annoying to get messaged every time you log in by people you grouped with, but I wouldn't be surprised if they sometimes like the attention.


This.
It grates me when females take every opportunity to let you know they are female. In my guild on live there used to be quite a few of us but one certain woman would mention it every day.....taking advantage of those poor guys that would get excited at the thought of a girl being online, encouraging the sleazy tells that they sent making them think that this was ok resulting in the rest of us getting them.

[Kreylyn]

On topic:

1. Hybrid hate / shared xp penalty fear (players w/ penalties effectively consume xp as if they were 2 or so levels higher. That's it).
2. NBG fanaticism and other exploitations of sound logic applied to false premises.
3. EQcommerce hate - if you don't like a price, don't accept it. There is no reason to b offended.
4. Legitimization of exploits due to classic nature.


Agree with all these, but #3 specifically...

If you don't want to haggle or your not flexible on your prices, just auction that... "10k firm" is simple enough. Then you can complain about those that ignore that... :p

The expectation that people shouldn't haggle either way is crazy to me. Your not the only one with the item. /shrug

If you really think it's difficult to discern your location by cross referencing a map.. I'm afraid you don't know the meaning of adversity.

I think there is a point that's being missed. It's not about what you can do OUT of the game. The server admins and players can't stop you from doing every thing in RL that may give you an advantage in play. They can try to stop boxing, RMTing, scripting, and or other exploits that are considered unfair or give you an advantage (even small ones!). Realistically they can't stop every thing though. Nor is it worth attempting to do so. Reward vs gain. What they can do is take a stance by choosing not to have the option provided by the game.

If you want to use "cheat*" websites with maps and quest walk thrus.... there isn't much Devs or players can do to stop you. They certainly don't need to add it to the game, which would clearly suggest they "condone" it.

So if maps in game doesn't make a diff for you... then stop "cheating*" and don't use them out of game, unless you drew them yourself!


Krey

*The term "cheat" or "cheating" is used in reference to websites and publications in the time frame of p99 using this term to describe themselves, by providing detailed walkthrough information and guides including maps for many multiple games. It's NOT a reference to using scripting or violation of EULA agreements.

[drktmplr12]

Girls play P99?

*heavy breathing*

So sad to see nerds get all horny because a girl is playing the same game as them. One of my buddies girlfriend (who was actually really attractive) played wow and lots of nerds would instantly send her tells when she logged on. She joined a guild which on their forum had a RL pic thread and after she posted hers... omg... the amount of stuff she was giving... THE AMOUNT OF PIXELS AND GOLD WAS BLINDING, people were literally begging her to group with them. And those poor nerds never heard her laugh and make fun. She knew the benefit she just obtained and used it to the fullest extent. She was a good player too in her defense. so sad, and yes im jelly for all the free pixals i dont get ;p

But seriously, I never believe anyone saying they are a girl. Too many dudes playing female characters and lying hoping a lonely nerd gives them stuff. Wish I could get my gf on the EQ train, then we could split all the free pixels she gets.

GO PATRIOTS! FEEL OUR DEFLATED BALLS!

Ball looses pressure when the air gets cold just like tires gain pressure when they get hot.

[myriverse]

Ball looses pressure when the air gets cold just like tires gain pressure when they get hot.
Not 2lbs of pressure though. At the temperatures present on game day, the pressure wouldn't have even dropped 1lb. And strange that the honest team didn't have the same problem.

Hmm...

[Kreylyn]

Not 2lbs of pressure though. At the temperatures present on game day, the pressure wouldn't have even dropped 1lb. And strange that the honest team didn't have the same problem.

Hmm...

Interesting... You have testing data to back that up?

Cause this guy does, and it doesn't say what you say.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html?_r=0

When that error is corrected, the amount of deflation predicted in moving from room temperature to a 50-degree field is roughly doubled. Healy, a graduate student in mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, went further: He measured the pressure drop in 12 footballs when they were moved from a room at 75 degrees to one at 50 degrees (the approximate temperature on the field in the Colts game).



In the experiment, the deflation of the footballs was close to the larger, correctly calculated value. When Healy moistened the balls to mimic the effects of the rainy weather that day, the pressure dropped even further, close to the deflation of 2 pounds per square inch that the N.F.L. is believed to have found.


Maths... hard. ;p

(not commenting on the other teams balls... jus saying the hypothesis of the pressure drop CAN be proven up to the 2lbs mark you disagree with. The question of the other team not having the same issue, well that's why it's a controversy isn't it?)

Krey

[Toodles]

...When I first started here in 02 there as a map on the game. So immensely useful. I quit after a month or two and came back right around the time they had removed it and there were so many nerds just beaming with pride over their hardcore classic experience, pretending they and everyone else aren't simply looking at the maps online via the wiki and cross checking coordinates. To me it seems pointless to strip a feature out of the game that's just going to cause individuals to have to leave the game on a regular basis to utilize a tool that would have been unnecessary had that feature been left in game.

So true. I harp on about how the developers KNEW long before this server was a reality, that times have changed. Between the knowledge people have amassed over the years, the advent of the internet and the increase in communication options(Voice/VOIP etc) - trying to juxtapose a truly classic EverQuest server, would be impossible.

The 'it's classic' excuse seems to be just that, an excuse - to silence any sort of creativity or constructive criticism.
The problem is that 'classic' became subjective, not objective, which is obvious by the adjustments they did make, sadly none that happen to be anything but a hindrance to the server.

[DarkwingDuck]

It really was, though I could see it happening on live in 2001 to my 10 year old self, and being very upset haha.

Ya.. I LoL'd sorry

[Mistle]

So true. I harp on about how the developers KNEW long before this server was a reality, that times have changed. Between the knowledge people have amassed over the years, the advent of the internet and the increase in communication options(Voice/VOIP etc) - trying to juxtapose a truly classic EverQuest server, would be impossible.

The 'it's classic' excuse seems to be just that, an excuse - to silence any sort of creativity or constructive criticism.
The problem is that 'classic' became subjective, not objective, which is obvious by the adjustments they did make, sadly none that happen to be anything but a hindrance to the server.

You are welcome to play on a different emulated server then. This is how this one is going to be.

[Stormfists]

To summarise this thread up to now for those who CBA to read 19 pages:

"Not classic bro."
"Wah."

[mccraw5]

Interesting... You have testing data to back that up?

Cause this guy does, and it doesn't say what you say.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/sports/football/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-science-on-their-side-after-all.html?_r=0



Maths... hard. ;p

(not commenting on the other teams balls... jus saying the hypothesis of the pressure drop CAN be proven up to the 2lbs mark you disagree with. The question of the other team not having the same issue, well that's why it's a controversy isn't it?)

Krey



I can't stand people who use logic and facts. It takes away from my board trolling immersion. "Shit aint' classic". Just don't do it.

Villkain

[Frug]

Ball looses pressure when the air gets cold just like tires gain pressure when they get hot.

But only on one team.

[Clark]

People who don't buff others or help new players.

[Sajuuk]

I just discovered my issue with p99. Ive had multiple people tell me I level too slow. There are literally people keeping track of how far I progressed and let me know about it. Sorry Ive been lvl 25 for weeks because I basically get 1 to 2 hours of play and its sometimes fun to not grind every minute of it.

Another one... which I will take as a compliment... when you giving your group a heads up that you are leaving and people ask why? Umm because there is something called real life? Maybe my daughter woke up? Maybe my girlfriend got tired of me playing for a longer time than usual and wants me to put that same amount of attention to her? Maybe I gotta get some grocerys? Throw johnny in with the fishes? Do you really want to pry into someones personal life?

Maybes thats just my life as a shammy and no one wants heals and sow to go away.

[Ele]

I just discovered my issue with p99. Ive had multiple people tell me I level too slow. There are literally people keeping track of how far I progressed and let me know about it. Sorry Ive been lvl 25 for weeks because I basically get 1 to 2 hours of play and its sometimes fun to not grind every minute of it.

Another one... which I will take as a compliment... when you giving your group a heads up that you are leaving and people ask why? Umm because there is something called real life? Maybe my daughter woke up? Maybe my girlfriend got tired of me playing for a longer time than usual and wants me to put that same amount of attention to her? Maybe I gotta get some grocerys? Throw johnny in with the fishes? Do you really want to pry into someones personal life?

Maybes thats just my life as a shammy and no one wants heals and sow to go away.

You work for the rest of your group. You have to answer to them first.

[kaev]

You work for the rest of your group. You have to answer to them first.

The sad thing is that a lot of people who "play" here won't realize that Ele's being sarcastic there.

[Mentathiel]

I just discovered my issue with p99. Ive had multiple people tell me I level too slow. There are literally people keeping track of how far I progressed and let me know about it. Sorry Ive been lvl 25 for weeks because I basically get 1 to 2 hours of play and its sometimes fun to not grind every minute of it.

Another one... which I will take as a compliment... when you giving your group a heads up that you are leaving and people ask why? Umm because there is something called real life? Maybe my daughter woke up? Maybe my girlfriend got tired of me playing for a longer time than usual and wants me to put that same amount of attention to her? Maybe I gotta get some grocerys? Throw johnny in with the fishes? Do you really want to pry into someones personal life?

Maybes thats just my life as a shammy and no one wants heals and sow to go away.
I think there are two types of people who play MMORPGs; there are people who see 1-60 as a race and cannot understand why you are still only in your teens a months after joining and there are those who like to explore and find the limits of their character.

I suppose neither group will ever quite get the other. I mean, my main on Live (a ranger) was in the high 20s after three or four years. I had a guild who always said they would happily help me level faster, but while Unrest was fun, I thought Paludal caverns was boring and was just starting to get into Mistmoore (so I could do my Ivy Etched armour) when I lost interest.

[Whirled]

I think there are two types of people who play MMORPGs; there are people who see 1-60 as a race and cannot understand why you are still only in your teens a months after joining and there are those who like to explore and find the limits of their character.

I suppose neither group will ever quite get the other. I mean, my main on Live (a ranger) was in the high 20s after three or four years. I had a guild who always said they would happily help me level faster, but while Unrest was fun, I thought Paludal caverns was boring and was just starting to get into Mistmoore (so I could do my Ivy Etched armour) when I lost interest.

True, being uber casual u see people get to 60 along with alts they also made. Also in some cases they don't even log in anymore. It's sad to wipe cool ppl from friends list but it's only 100 long so... /shrug

[perditionparty]

People using the term "pixels" in legitimate discussions.

[Mentathiel]

True, being uber casual u see people get to 60 along with alts they also made. Also in some cases they don't even log in anymore. It's sad to wipe cool ppl from friends list but it's only 100 long so... /shrug
I have three people on my list, but one of the people I used to group with at 14 was in his 40s when I hit level 22 and the other two have never been online when I check.

These days, I group where I can, share the fleeting camaraderie of temporary allies and feel no rancour or disappointment when I realise that four of my five companions from the previous session have moved on without me. It's easier in some ways.

There is little or nothing waiting for me at 50. I'm one of the <Unreliable>, so unless something changes, I doubt I'll ever be a raider or even see my epic. That's fine; I spend time in Norrath because it feels familiar and nostalgic, because I want to watch the sun rise over the Western Plains of Karana and sit in The Blind Fish as a Wood Elf while I watch newbies drown, not because I want to kill Innoruuk and squeeze the last points of XP from Nagafen...

[Ele]

People using the term "pixels" in legitimate discussions.

"bits located on a remote hard drive that I can access at the sole discretion of another person" just doesn't have the same ring.

[Whirled]

add me^ I'll group up with my army of lowbies,lol

[perditionparty]

"bits located on a remote hard drive that I can access at the sole discretion of another person" just doesn't have the same ring.

luul

HOWEVER, it's easier to bandy about a term than admit that's why anyone plays the game? Think pixels just means gear? enact the same zone changes that live did and see how everyone feels about their "bits located on a remote hard drive that can be accessed at the sole discretion of another person". I've only been here a month and it's already a tired and lazy argument in lieu of an actual discussion.

[sox7d]

We invest hours because pixels are prestigious in our little microsociety.

In some shitty country, people are putting large disks in their bottom lip which is prestigious in their little microsociety.

A huge portion of western society just watches TV all day and doesn't aspire to anything.

Who's to be the judge of what's valid, rewarding or healthy?

[kaev]

Who's to be the judge of what's valid, rewarding or healthy?

me! me! pick me! :wavesfranticallytodrawattention: pick me! i wanna judge!

will there be stocks and whippings?

[August]

I'm pretty sure they include the price so they don't need to see the 6 messages saying how much? People can offer or not now, bro

I really don't want to go into it, but no.

Player 1 auctions, WTS HBC 3k
Player 2 auctions, WTS HBC 2.9k
Player 1 auctions, WTS HBC 2.8k!!!

this is what i'm talking about. If you are someone who sells something at a set price constantly putting your auctions in your price is a deathknell to your margins because the secondary market will come in and undercut you publically all the time. Since we track auctions here this results in people wanting the secondary market prices on your goods, which makes it not worthwhile.

Furthermore people like the tunnel because they like to haggle and feel like they win. If you put your actual price for an item in the auction you're just a plain idiot. The ratio of people giving me my asking price versus trying to haggle me down is on the upside of 10:1.

Again, people do different things for different reasons. But, if you think that putting your price in an auction is going to sell something QUICKER, you're just wrong.

[Swish]

Agree with August, black sapphires are a good example of it.

If there's no buyers in the zone for them then there's no buyers. You'll likely get lowballed by a fat cat or two, but if people start undercutting then just come back later... stupid shit, and one reason (of many) why everything is on its knees in terms of EC prices.

[kaev]

I really don't want to go into it, but no.

Player 1 auctions, WTS HBC 3k
Player 2 auctions, WTS HBC 2.9k
Player 1 auctions, WTS HBC 2.8k!!!

this is what i'm talking about. If you are someone who sells something at a set price constantly putting your auctions in your price is a deathknell to your margins because the secondary market will come in and undercut you publically all the time. Since we track auctions here this results in people wanting the secondary market prices on your goods, which makes it not worthwhile.

Furthermore people like the tunnel because they like to haggle and feel like they win. If you put your actual price for an item in the auction you're just a plain idiot. The ratio of people giving me my asking price versus trying to haggle me down is on the upside of 10:1.

Again, people do different things for different reasons. But, if you think that putting your price in an auction is going to sell something QUICKER, you're just wrong.

I find it pretty random really. Sometimes putting up prices moves shit quicker, sometimes just listing item gets immediate inquiries. Listing a price seems to work pretty well most of the time with items that are semi-rare or have an obvious floor.

Also, having a set price is good if you just log your EC trader occasionally for 10-15 minutes. Run your auctions a few times... no buyers? nothing you want to buy? get on a different char and leave the spam behind. If somebody wants what you have and is just hoping for a better price, they'll often buy later that day or the next.

And I always stop selling the particular item or just bail out of EC when shit like that HBC example happens, you won't lose to the con if you don't play the shell game.

[Jenithia]

All the people hating on rangers but as soon as the exp pen goes away and they get WP, it'll be ranger-city all up in here~

[maskedmelon]

Furthermore people like the tunnel because they like to haggle and feel like they win. If you put your actual price for an item in the auction you're just a plain idiot. The ratio of people giving me my asking price versus trying to haggle me down is on the upside of 10:1.

Again, people do different things for different reasons. But, if you think that putting your price in an auction is going to sell something QUICKER, you're just wrong.

To your last statement, it depends on the price. If you auction something at a discount it most certainly will sell more quickly. If you auction at a premium then it will make less difference, because many players will assume that if you are not advertising a price then you must be looking t sell at a premium and will not bother messaging. Those whom curiosity gets the best of will inquire the price, but will not bither to haggle because they will understand the two of you are too far apart. By blind auctioning you are really just limiting the size of your market to those who most desire the item and those who are uneducated about it.

As long as knowledge is available of the item's greater market value this method will be slower on average the lower your price is. The higher hour price is, the less difference it will make ^^

[maskedmelon]

We invest hours because pixels are prestigious in our little microsociety.

In some shitty country, people are putting large disks in their bottom lip which is prestigious in their little microsociety.

A huge portion of western society just watches TV all day and doesn't aspire to anything.

Who's to be the judge of what's valid, rewarding or healthy?

Hehehe this made me laugh ^^

[TheBlackSheep]

I think there are two types of people who play MMORPGs; there are people who see 1-60 as a race and cannot understand why you are still only in your teens a months after joining and there are those who like to explore and find the limits of their character.

I suppose neither group will ever quite get the other. I mean, my main on Live (a ranger) was in the high 20s after three or four years. I had a guild who always said they would happily help me level faster, but while Unrest was fun, I thought Paludal caverns was boring and was just starting to get into Mistmoore (so I could do my Ivy Etched armour) when I lost interest.

Oh, let's not talk about Unrest. I spent days running around there looking at my feet because the packet loss on my 48k modem over AOL was so bad I couldn't actually look at what I was fighting without going LD. I vowed in 1999 I would never go back there, and I haven't, to this day.

Yeah, I did the whole race thing the day of release up until PoP on live. No thanks. Not this time. I started playing here in 2011 and I'm only level 29. Then again I've been on hiatus since 2012 until about a month ago, so take it for what it's worth. In reality I'm just an old salty bastard now. I look back on those days and can't imagine what I found fun about the level race. Now, I can't sit down in front of a computer without my back hurting after 3 hours.

Last weekend I ran to hell and back just getting my level 29 spells, and sat forever at the docks in TD waiting for the boat to OT. It was fun. Back on live, I would have rage punched the LCD for having to sit and wait for so long.

[Deadlyfury]

Oh, let's not talk about Unrest. I spent days running around there looking at my feet because the packet loss on my 48k modem over AOL was so bad I couldn't actually look at what I was fighting without going LD. I vowed in 1999 I would never go back there, and I haven't, to this day.

I hear at level 30 unrest basement is great :D hehehe.

One of my pet hates is people who are just about plat, I had a guy try to charge me 200pp for a rez in unrest because of the situation, and this was after me offering 50pp first...

On live I had a druid and I would never ask for a fee to port.

[Kreylyn]

I really don't want to go into it, but no.

Player 1 auctions, WTS HBC 3k
Player 2 auctions, WTS HBC 2.9k
Player 1 auctions, WTS HBC 2.8k!!!

this is what i'm talking about. If you are someone who sells something at a set price constantly putting your auctions in your price is a deathknell to your margins because the secondary market will come in and undercut you publically all the time. Since we track auctions here this results in people wanting the secondary market prices on your goods, which makes it not worthwhile.

Furthermore people like the tunnel because they like to haggle and feel like they win. If you put your actual price for an item in the auction you're just a plain idiot. The ratio of people giving me my asking price versus trying to haggle me down is on the upside of 10:1.

Again, people do different things for different reasons. But, if you think that putting your price in an auction is going to sell something QUICKER, you're just wrong.

The simple answer is buy out your secondary market and there for remove your competition in prices. Resell (since your clearly saying they are selling under your price) for a profit.

They move the items quickly which is WHY they are pricing them under you, You get to regulate the prices by simple supply/demand, AND you make a profit off every sell that way.


Krey-

[August]

The simple answer is buy out your secondary market and there for remove your competition in prices. Resell (since your clearly saying they are selling under your price) for a profit.

They move the items quickly which is WHY they are pricing them under you, You get to regulate the prices by simple supply/demand, AND you make a profit off every sell that way.


Krey-


no, that's not the simple answer, and that's why i hate this attitude (hence the name of this thread). If I did that I'd end up with no way to dump them because the price of the items i'm selling doesn't actually matter. What matters is if there's someone in the tunnel that needs it.

The only way for you to lowball an item to move it quickly is to price it so that someone who flips items would buy it because they know they can sell it for more. People who put prices in their auctions thinking it will make it sell faster are just delusional - as if the 100pp price cut will magically make someone who actually needs the item immediately buy it.

I know these things because I've been living them since 1999. I can't tell you how often I've sat in the tunnel while other people are actively auctioning black sapphire jewelry at a price point, say, 2300pp, with the price in the auction, and i've auctioned mine sans price. Someone sees mine, I tell them 2500pp, and they immediately buy it because it's not an unreasonable price and they JUST looked at /auction. Happens All. The. Time.

[Danth]

I hate the EC tunnel, and the attitudes and general nuisance it encourages. I like any sort of automatic buying/selling (even EQ's badly-designed bazaar) much better. I just want to play the game and the tunnel is just a bunch of annoying hassle. P1999 is what it is though so I take the bad with the good.

Danth

[Danyelle]

Luclin graphic hate is so strong here I'm positive its glow off the monitor causes some people physical pain.

http://i.imgur.com/ydFUQKx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cPEBXWn.jpg

What fucking loser got these working anyway?

Guy should be banned.

[Kreylyn]

...the price of the items i'm selling doesn't actually matter. What matters is if there's someone in the tunnel that needs it.

Which by your own argument is why you shouldn't care if someone puts the price in or not, it just does not matter.

Unless your wrong, and it does matter, and in that case buying out the competition does work.... /thinking

Hrm...


Krey

[August]

Which by your own argument is why you shouldn't care if someone puts the price in or not, it just does not matter.

Unless your wrong, and it does matter, and in that case buying out the competition does work.... /thinking

Hrm...


Krey

To be clear, it doesn't matter to me - you're absolutely right - i sell around 15-20 black sapphire pieces a week while I afk in the tunnel while I make dinner, etc. I'm lucky to have more than 2-3 BS in stock. I just hate the philosophy of the people who put their price in their auction.

[Kreylyn]

To be clear, it doesn't matter to me - you're absolutely right - i sell around 15-20 black sapphire pieces a week while I afk in the tunnel while I make dinner, etc. I'm lucky to have more than 2-3 BS in stock. I just hate the philosophy of the people who put their price in their auction.

Ahhhh... I understand now, sorry for the confusion.

You hate that other people undersell their stuff and loose out on plat which has no direct effect on you at all, it's just the principle of the matter.

So it's a pessimist thing.

You know you could be happy that someone got a good deal and it didn't have to be you that gave it.... as an optimist thing. :p



..... .







/poke


*grin

Krey

[coki]

People who sign their posts.... Dumbest shit ever

Coki

[Cecily]

People with animated signatures and avatars. Also people with the word peeve in their vocabulary and their pets.

[Droog007]

Luclin graphic hate is so strong here I'm positive its glow off the monitor causes some people physical pain.


Some Luclin model still shots don't make me vomit immediately... but then they move, and my eyes melt. It's not so much the polygons as it is the animations - disgusting.

[Paleman]

I really don't want to go into it, but no.

Player 1 auctions, WTS HBC 3k
Player 2 auctions, WTS HBC 2.9k
Player 1 auctions, WTS HBC 2.8k!!!

this is what i'm talking about. If you are someone who sells something at a set price constantly putting your auctions in your price is a deathknell to your margins because the secondary market will come in and undercut you publically all the time. Since we track auctions here this results in people wanting the secondary market prices on your goods, which makes it not worthwhile.

Furthermore people like the tunnel because they like to haggle and feel like they win. If you put your actual price for an item in the auction you're just a plain idiot. The ratio of people giving me my asking price versus trying to haggle me down is on the upside of 10:1.

Again, people do different things for different reasons. But, if you think that putting your price in an auction is going to sell something QUICKER, you're just wrong.
I always sell shit faster when I put a price in it. When I dont put a price in I get tells like "how much are you selling it for?" or "how much is that item worth?" or people just look at p99 wiki and undercut that anyhow. Its all just pointless conversation that isnt even related to haggling, and it turns me into a person doing a fucking Q&A over a video game item, no thank you.

so I dont waste my time or others by putting the price I am trying to get for the item I am selling.

haggling is a negotiation, and from the sellers point of view its better to start that negotiation by stating your terms as clear as possible and as soon as possible.

also dont worry too much about any in game economy, its ultimately irrelevant. The only thing going for eqs economy is that it is player driven. Can you think of any in game economy that was stable? I cant because in the end this shit isnt real and you can always pick the option of not really caring.

also I for sure sell things faster when I dictate the price I am looking for. Some people that play mmos especially are so damn passive aggressive they need some sort of indication of what you are looking for in terms of price, so doing that always gets me more offers than not saying my price.

[PDX0621]

Some Luclin model still shots don't make me vomit immediately... but then they move, and my eyes melt. It's not so much the polygons as it is the animations - disgusting.

If it weren't for the Luclin models, I literally could not play this game. Long live Luclin models!

[Cecily]

I used to use them, but they slowed down my load times. If I ever go full casual again I'll put them back on.

[Paleman]

iksar luclin models are ftw, its like iksars opened up a golds gym in field of bone and they all became swole

[86753o9]

If it weren't for the Luclin models, I literally could not play this game. Long live Luclin models!That sucks, is it a frame rate issue?

[Swish]

iksar luclin models are ftw, its like iksars opened up a golds gym in field of bone and they all became swole

lol, the state of gnomes/dwarves/etc though... terrible. I always liked my eyebrows to match my hair color :/

[Byrjun]

This is how TunnelQuest goes:

Legolas auctions, 'WTS Sword of Truth'
You tell Legolas, 'How much for Sword of Truth'
Legolas tells you, 'Make an offer'

Here's what really happened:

Legolas auctions, 'WTS Sword of Truth'
You tell Legolas, 'How much for Sword of Truth'
Legolas tells you, 'Make an offer. If your offer is higher than the going rate for Sword of Truth I'll sell it to you, but if your offer is lower than the going rate for Sword of Truth then I'll ignore any further tells'

This jackass obviously knows how much he wants to sell it for or he wouldn't be trying to sell it. 99% of people who don't put prices in their auction are trying to take advantage of desperate/ignorant people.

99% of the time I won't even attempt to buy your item if there isn't a price attached. I don't play that game. At least be honest, if you're looking for 20% above the going price for a certain item then just put that price in your auction blurb.

[Throndor]

If availability exceeds demand, price goes down. If demand exceeds availability, price goes up. Arbitrarily attempting to stagnate a price at the GUIDELINE listed on wiki is a fool's errand. I could sit around all day attempting to extract MAX value at an item, or I could offload the shit i don't want and go back to playing the actual game and generating more pixels to sell at a later time. Only people that are inept at generating pixels to sell are "firm" in their pricing.

Regards.

[Deadlyfury]

If availability exceeds demand, price goes down. If demand exceeds availability, price goes up. Arbitrarily attempting to stagnate a price at the GUIDELINE listed on wiki is a fool's errand. I could sit around all day attempting to extract MAX value at an item, or I could offload the shit i don't want and go back to playing the actual game and generating more pixels to sell at a later time. Only people that are inept at generating pixels to sell are "firm" in their pricing.

Regards.

Best explanation of the market I have seen, hope the tight asses take note...

Another attitude I hate is people just flat out ignoring a tell, it's a social game, why play if you don't want to talk to other peeps?

The afk function is there, use it!

[Briscoe]

As someone who has done my fair share of EC buying and selling on this server, I side with Tomtee on the price listing debate. In the majority of cases I do not list prices for items I am selling and Tomtee has already discussed some of my own reasons.

I will add that an additional reason that I don't usually list prices is that I WANT a potential buyer to send me a /tell so that I can get a conversation going. I believe that there are more people who will ask what the price is than people who will not because they assume I am intending to gouge. And what I'm worried about is someone not sending me a /tell because they don't have exactly the amount I'm asking for. If I can get a conversation going, maybe I find that the buyer has enough plat to make an offer close enough to my price point that I find it acceptable. Or maybe I find that the buyer doesn't have plat but instead has items for trade which I find to be a good deal. Or maybe I don't make a deal but at least I had a friendly exchange with someone.

[Swish]

As someone who has done my fair share of EC buying and selling on this server, I side with Tomtee on the price listing debate. In the majority of cases I do not list prices for items I am selling and Tomtee has already discussed some of my own reasons.

I will add that an additional reason that I don't usually list prices is that I WANT a potential buyer to send me a /tell so that I can get a conversation going. I believe that there are more people who will ask what the price is than people who will not because they assume I am intending to gouge. And what I'm worried about is someone not sending me a /tell because they don't have exactly the amount I'm asking for. If I can get a conversation going, maybe I find that the buyer has enough plat to make an offer close enough to my price point that I find it acceptable. Or maybe I find that the buyer doesn't have plat but instead has items for trade which I find to be a good deal. Or maybe I don't make a deal but at least I had a friendly exchange with someone.

I list with prices. I find when I'm buying from people without prices they're often tunnel fat cats wanting to flip items and always ask for the top end (or even a little above). That's just a waste of time to me, if I see a price I can work with, I'm at least sending a tell. I don't want to get coerced into a final price that I know isn't going to be good. Different strokes for different folks and all that ;)

[Mentathiel]

Another attitude I hate is people just flat out ignoring a tell, it's a social game, why play if you don't want to talk to other peeps?

The afk function is there, use it!
Sometimes, you can't help it; cats vomit randomly, kids fall down stairs and typing /afk is not the first thing that occurs to you. If I am playing a caster and waiting for my mana to come back, I will often go away to grab a drink and maybe even use the bathroom without feeling that I am truly AFK enough to advertise the fact.

At other times, a random unsolicited message from an unknown player can be intimidating. I mean, if I just wrote a /LFG message, I might expect to get a couple of tells and I'll reply even if all I am saying is that I already have a group. But when I am running through a zone full of dangerous mobs and get a message saying 'Hey' then I am often going to wait for the rest of the message before replying.

In the majority of cases I do not list prices for items I am selling and Tomtee has already discussed some of my own reasons.
And what about people who have no idea what the items should cost? I might look up an item on the wiki if I really want it, but there have been times when I have ignored an item because I didn't realise it was in my price-range until later. Please, won't someone think of the noobs?

[kaev]

And what about people who have no idea what the items should cost? I might look up an item on the wiki if I really want it, but there have been times when I have ignored an item because I didn't realise it was in my price-range until later. Please, won't someone think of the noobs?

Oh, I assure you that the tunnel fatrats who list items for 25% to 50% over the going price are thinking of the noobs constantly.

To be fair, so are the people who take the time to sell noob gear for reasonable prices, rather than just vendoring it so they can get back to camping sooner. Nobody's getting rich listing items for 30 to 100pp.

[CreamyCowboy]

Sometimes, you can't help it; cats vomit randomly, kids fall down stairs and typing /afk is not the first thing that occurs to you.

Lol, this couldn't be more real.

Shit happens and taking care of it is a lot more important than trying to explain what just happened.

[Pent Magick]

What kills me is I often do a mix of listing a price on one set of items and then not listing a price on a 2nd set of items. I do this purposefully for a variety of reasons, but a lot of it has to do with there being wiggle room on my price and I'd like tells to talk about it. Also people saying I'm gouging them drives me a bit over the top. I often buy items when people are in a hurry and then still sell them below normal price because I'm making my margin on them. I'm not trying to maximize profits I'm trying to have liquid plat flow. Many 50-100pp profitable transactions is more fun and interesting to me than 1 500pp profitable transaction. I spend a lot of time in the tunnel buying and selling, because I enjoy doing it and it's a great break in my studies. I often do transfers for people or give away items that are inexpensive to new people who clearly don't have the coin for low cost items.

Pentacle Magick

[Swish]

Has anyone encountered the 1-2 polite fat cats? I had an Atramentous Shield a couple of weeks back... some nerd said "hey, i know its a low offer but if you just want to get rid of it for 2k i'll buy it, i notice you're asking more than the going rate for it"

Respectfully... fuck off ;)

[Wargrade]

Has anyone encountered the 1-2 polite fat cats? I had an Atramentous Shield a couple of weeks back... some nerd said "hey, i know its a low offer but if you just want to get rid of it for 2k i'll buy it, i notice you're asking more than the going rate for it"

Respectfully... fuck off ;)

He politely wants to fleece you.

[entruil]

What attitudes and philosophies do you hate in P1999?

-----------------------


mine...

[Whirled]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWH811TcckU
Only YOU can prevent forest fires... only you!

[Deadlyfury]

Sometimes, you can't help it; cats vomit randomly, kids fall down stairs and typing /afk is not the first thing that occurs to you. If I am playing a caster and waiting for my mana to come back, I will often go away to grab a drink and maybe even use the bathroom without feeling that I am truly AFK enough to advertise the fact.

At other times, a random unsolicited message from an unknown player can be intimidating. I mean, if I just wrote a /LFG message, I might expect to get a couple of tells and I'll reply even if all I am saying is that I already have a group. But when I am running through a zone full of dangerous mobs and get a message saying 'Hey' then I am often going to wait for the rest of the message before replying.


And what about people who have no idea what the items should cost? I might look up an item on the wiki if I really want it, but there have been times when I have ignored an item because I didn't realise it was in my price-range until later. Please, won't someone think of the noobs?

But I'm sure you reply eventually, and when I send a tell I'm always the nicest guy you could get one from.

For e.g "hey mate! You done with this camp yet? If not all good could you just shoot me a tell when you are finished?"

Or "really hate to bother you but I am in need of a rez! Happy to donate please let me know :)"

"Really want this item but I only got 800pp and I know your asking 1k, any chance you would part with it?"

These are the types of tells I get ignored on... It's bullshit!

I totally agree about the price thing, put your price if it is a lower end item (e.g 200pp or even up to 1k!) or at least give a little spiel like perfect for low lvl druid! The noob will come running with tells.

the only people who don't give prices are real estate agents, and nobody likes them! (p.s my dad is a real estate agent)

[August]

And what about people who have no idea what the items should cost? I might look up an item on the wiki if I really want it, but there have been times when I have ignored an item because I didn't realise it was in my price-range until later. Please, won't someone think of the noobs?

I get people who message me all the time for the items i'm selling because they don't know what the price is. They often say something like, 'oh my! way out of my price range didn't realize, thanks for replying!'. I've been known to throw those people free jewelry anyways, just because it's fun to make people's day. It's actually one of the best ways to find ACTUAL noobs and lavish gifts upon them, rather than shouting in the tunnel and getting a million level 1s 'BankerAltNumbaThree' pretending to be noobs who need your crap gear. So, win/win for me.

[Danyelle]

Is it bad i just give everything away?

Partly cause I like to help people, and also I'm way too lazy to sit there and sell things.

Although i do always feel like shit when i get multiple people chime in for an item and i give it to the first responder and have to tell the other's it's gone =/

[Whirled]

Is it bad i just give everything away?

Partly cause I like to help people, and also I'm way too lazy to sit there and sell things.

Although i do always feel like shit when i get multiple people chime in for an item and i give it to the first responder and have to tell the other's it's gone =/

I do this too. No big deal really unless you are in it for the "economic gain"
Gives a fellow player a better chance & opens up a bag slot. win/win

[Mentathiel]

This is more an irk than a thing I hate, but I once tried to give away a load of mixed small chain / banded armour and a forged spear. It was not a full set, but I know I was very happy to get them when I was a low-level rogue just starting out and a passing dwarf donated them to me.

But... Nobody needed them. Nobody would take them even for free. The only characters low enough level to appreciate it were already twinked with stat-gear and/or bronze plate, so I think I ended up vendoring it to free up some space in my bank. That made me sad, wondering if I had been the last untwinked chain-wearer in Greater Faydark...

[Teneran]

This is more an irk than a thing I hate, but I once tried to give away a load of mixed small chain / banded armour and a forged spear. It was not a full set, but I know I was very happy to get them when I was a low-level rogue just starting out and a passing dwarf donated them to me.

But... Nobody needed them. Nobody would take them even for free. The only characters low enough level to appreciate it were already twinked with stat-gear and/or bronze plate, so I think I ended up vendoring it to free up some space in my bank. That made me sad, wondering if I had been the last untwinked chain-wearer in Greater Faydark...

It was just bad timing I think. There are actual starting untwinked players (like me!) out there who would have gladly taken that gear.

[Mentathiel]

Sadly, I was getting ready to head back to Unrest (which is the source of the small chain armour) and needed to shift as much weight as possible so I could stay there as long as I could before heading back to sell stuff.

[Sajuuk]

Another thing I dont like since day 1 10 years ago is how the looks of armor doesnt change. Let me explain.

This game is massive and obviously took lots of man hours to give us the original package we got before. With how many zones, tons of different classes, tons of different items, tons of different things... yet when I equip a helmet that says *Black Skull Helmet* (yes im making the name up) Its just the same looking helmet, probably not even dyed black. Got some epic plated chest item? Guess what? Looks like the crap fine steel armor. The armor never changing gets boring. Even luclin models didnt do anything about that annoyence that I have with p1999 and classic EQ in general. I scratch my heading wondering how EQ was created with so much stuff yet when it came to the look of items that have discriptions indicating that this helmet or piece of armor should look drasticaly different than what your wearing now. Always bothered me as a non cloth wearer. With all the work they did with expansions I feel like making certains item look different shouldnt of been too hard for them.

I apologize for terrible spelling and grammar.

[kaev]

Another thing I dont like since day 1 10 years ago is how the looks of armor doesnt change. Let me explain.

This game is massive and obviously took lots of man hours to give us the original package we got before. With how many zones, tons of different classes, tons of different items, tons of different things... yet when I equip a helmet that says *Black Skull Helmet* (yes im making the name up) Its just the same looking helmet, probably not even dyed black. Got some epic plated chest item? Guess what? Looks like the crap fine steel armor. The armor never changing gets boring. Even luclin models didnt do anything about that annoyence that I have with p1999 and classic EQ in general. I scratch my heading wondering how EQ was created with so much stuff yet when it came to the look of items that have discriptions indicating that this helmet or piece of armor should look drasticaly different than what your wearing now. Always bothered me as a non cloth wearer. With all the work they did with expansions I feel like making certains item look different shouldnt of been too hard for them.

I apologize for terrible spelling and grammar.

I can't speak to later, but early on it was simply a limitation of the texture memory on video cards. Everything about every player-character's appearance had to be part of the global textures that were always loaded in the video card's ram, while zone specific terrain and NPC features could be more varied as they are loaded on zone entry and can be deleted (from video ram) on zone exit. That same limit would apply today, just would allow for higher res and more variety due to much larger video rams, but you still need to make PC appearance global (imagine PvP if approaching somebody could force you and/or them to swap video textures, or consider the possibility for griefing people doing PvE content by having toons with rare textures approach them during difficult encounters to try to cause their video to lag.)

[Pint]

Hybrid hate

[Swish]

The LFG meta (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171712)

[simpo]

I can't find much to complain about, although I'm fairly new to the server (46 enchanter 30 monk), but there is one thing. It's min/max people in regular groups who are anal about potential groupmates.... I was in a group where one guy left because a ranger was invited. Not only did he leave but he threw a hissy fit over it. Had groups whine and moan over getting the perfect class. I'm perfectly aware of group setups and certain classes being necessities in certain areas but I feel like if we're looking for a misc class and a ranger or druid is there, we should invite them. I feel like everyone should play the class they like and not be discriminated against even when we're looking for something that fits their role.

Overall though people are great here and the attitudes have mostly been really good and from what I've seen, the "unwritten" (or actually written) rules seem to work exactly the want I would like them to.