Question Regarding Further Expansions

[Crescens]

Disclaimer: I love P99 and I love most of what the devs are doing and this thead is by no means ment to troll but rather start a healthy discussion.

Granted I already know the answer to my question but what I am seeking is clarification. The question for me is why does project1999 consider up through velious classic everquest. Personally I would like to see the game go atleast 1 more expansion in.

The reason for posting this topic is because during the livestream the guys mentioned the possibility of creating new content in the spirit of classic EQ. Personally, this idea feels like it is more than any other idea breaking the servers classic rules. I see people ask for things like completing quest lines that "should" have been completed during the era they appeared in, I.E all the Iksar epics, and the answer always is that was not classic. That does not mean those things where not suppose to be classic though.

The other issue with this for me is why would you choose to create your own content over progressing the game onto the next expansion. This is the part I really would like to hear more about personally. I understand if Luclin killed the game for the devs and is not what they are wanting but for me at least, Luclin is still one of the main expansions I spent the majority of everquest in and even though I hated the new graphics I still enjoyed the expansion and what it brought. P99 is about reliving my past mmo nostalgia all the while playing the great game that EQ was.

What I really would like to see come out of this discussion is some good insight into why Luclin goes against what P99 is trying to do. What are the issues with bringing it out, even on say a new server? The devs in the livestream said no cats on the moon, and that statement I feel undercuts all the cool stuff Luclin brought with it. AAs where and are one of the best idea's in all MMOs in my opinion and would hate to see those and many more of the features from Luclin never come to the amazing P99 community.

Once again I want to say I do appreciate and love all that the P99 staff have done so far and will be playing P99 for years to come, regardless if I do not get to experience further expansions through them.

[maskedmelon]

There are several reasons SoL is a departure from Classic Everquest:

1. Setting - the game changes from adventures in slaying dragons and orcs to battling aliens in outer space.
2. Community - introduction of the nexus/bazaar was the beginning of unraveling of the Classic Everquest community. The world expansion also furthers dilution of the player population.
3. Mechanics - the alternate advancement system was a radical departure from original EQ game design. While it has it's merits, it would ultimate trivialize a vast amount of content on a locked server like this one.

SoL was not classic Everquest. It was a departure from it. Some people do not consider Velious or Kunark classic for their roles (albeit to a much lesser extent) in some of the above (expanded world, changed mechanics, etc.), but most just view the tweaks in those expansions as a fleshing out of the original design.

[Grizzler]

There are several reasons SoL is a departure from Classic Everquest:

1. Setting - the game changes from adventures in slaying dragons and orcs to battling aliens in outer space.
2. Community - introduction of the nexus/bazaar was the beginning of unraveling of the Classic Everquest community. The world expansion also furthers dilution of the player population.
3. Mechanics - the alternate advancement system was a radical departure from original EQ game design. While it has it's merits, it would ultimate trivialize a vast amount of content on a locked server like this one.

SoL was not classic Everquest. It was a departure from it. Some people do not consider Velious or Kunark classic for their roles (albeit to a much lesser extent) in some of the above (expanded world, changed mechanics, etc.), but most just view the tweaks in those expansions as a fleshing out of the original design.

My one question would then be, how is custom content considered classic then? I understand in the stream they said, "It would have to stay in the realm of classic EQ" but that statement is completely subjective. I enjoy the current servers as they are and am fine with velious but as the devil's advocate, I'm not sure how you can say custom content is more classic EQ than SoL.

[Crescens]

My one question would then be, how is custom content considered classic then? I understand in the stream they said, "It would have to stay in the realm of classic EQ" but that statement is completely subjective. I enjoy the current servers as they are and am fine with velious but as the devil's advocate, I'm not sure how you can say custom content is more classic EQ than SoL.

This is basically my point entirely. However you mentioned in 3 that AAs would trivialize content and that just is not true imo(realize once people are velious gears kunark is way easier). There is no level cap increase. The bazaar does remove the use of EC tunnel but in a good way where people do not have to dedicate hours of time they could be playing to shouting to sell items, which they can still do in the bazaar.

The aliens on the moon comment is still kind of childish i think. I mean you end up fighting the shissar which are big in iksar lore, so its not they completely made up "new" monsters(aliens) and put them on the moon. I feel like if Luclin was just sold as a different content and people where never told it was the moon, more people would like it. Just seems like a very arbitrary reason to dislike something.

[Ele]

Cats on Moon.

Awful character models.

Terrible UI enhancements.

[Crescens]

Cats on Moon.

Awful character models.

Terrible UI enhancements.

Lol I have addressed the stupid Cats on the Moon comment, but here is my thoughts on the other 2 items you mention.

The graphic models are terrible, I for one continued to use the old classic models till I was forced not to a few expansions later. This to me is one thing the P99 team could do if they wanted to keep with the classic theme, not allow the new character models and it would still be in the spirit of classic EQ.

The terrible UI enhancements is subjective like most opinions but you can at the present time use custom UI's anyway. And I think most people aside from like the old spell gems use the new ui that came out with luclin anyways as default.

[maskedmelon]

My one question would then be, how is custom content considered classic then? I understand in the stream they said, "It would have to stay in the realm of classic EQ" but that statement is completely subjective. I enjoy the current servers as they are and am fine with velious but as the devil's advocate, I'm not sure how you can say custom content is more classic EQ than SoL.

I haven't listened to the stream, but I would agreed that custom content is obviously not classic. It could be in 'the spirit' of classic though by staying true to the genre and encouraging player interaction. Designing within those to parameters alone would yield custom content more true to or in the spirit of Classic than Luclin.

[Grizzler]

I haven't listened to the stream, but I would agreed that custom content is obviously not classic. It could be in 'the spirit' of classic though by staying true to the genre and encouraging player interaction. Designing within those to parameters alone would yield custom content more true to or in the spirit of Classic than Luclin.

I definitely see where your coming from in this respect but again it's all in the eye of the beholder what is and isn't classic EQ. It's the devs server in the end and they can do what they want with it but I feel that SoL would be more Classic EQ than someones attempt at quest/boss/zone creation just because SoL was actually in the game whether some folks feel it "watered" down the experience or not is irrelevant.

Not to mention, if the devs are able to make custom content what's stopping them from taking out certain items of SoL like the bazaar or char models or whatever?

[Ivory]

I want gnome paladins :(

I can live without cats in space...but please give us the gnome paladins!!!!

[Daldaen]

Cats on Moon.

Awful character models.

Terrible UI enhancements.

LUCLIN added so many great features.

AAs - Balanced out Druids, Rangers, Wizards, Mages, Necro's and Knights in raids
New Spells - Further balance (druids as main heals, what??)
Tradeskills are useful - TS in Classic-Velious are almost useful. If not for JC and Alchemy, they would be
Bazaar - Dealing with greedy resellers is the worst
Raid Mechanics - Too many people focus on Vex Thal's dumbness. The raid mechanics of the mobs in Ssra, The Deep, Akhevans Ruins, Umbral Plains, LIS... We're fantastic. Cursed Cycle, Emperor, Thoughtfiend... Shei Vinitras is probably the best fight in Luclin. Death adds to prevent zerging, death touches to prevent stalling/adding urgency, fixed spawn sets of adds with mixes of slowables intended to be offtanked and mezzables, intended to be CC'd, room based mana drain that stressed the importance of placement

Luclin confirmed 2nd best expansion behind PoP.

[lecompte]

AAs - Balanced out Druids, Rangers, Wizards, Mages, Necro's and Knights in raids



Ranger as main pulls (harmony arrow!!! Does that happen then?) and top dps. so tasty.

[Daldaen]

Harmonious Arrow was SoD or UF. Wayyyy later on. Atleast that's when I recall it being exploited the most then nerfed. It was the live version of sneak pulling. Trivialized one of the best aspects of EQ.

[Ella`Ella]

Skip Luclin and go straight to PoP, imo

[Ezalor]

getting pretty tired of the amount of whiny threads lately about how project1999 be this and that thing that some asshat personally desires

[Ravager]

My one question would then be, how is custom content considered classic then? I understand in the stream they said, "It would have to stay in the realm of classic EQ" but that statement is completely subjective. I enjoy the current servers as they are and am fine with velious but as the devil's advocate, I'm not sure how you can say custom content is more classic EQ than SoL.

My ideal custom server would have no Kunark, no Velious. Classic Zones only with the 3 original Planes. Include Paineel, The Hole.

Level cap stays at 50.

The custom content would be:

-More class specific quests. All of the quest rewards scaled to the difficulty of the quest.
-Further distinction between class roles in group/raid scenarios so that everyone has something unique to offer
-Nerf all things that allow one class to perform duties of another class that they wouldn't otherwise be able to on their own (i.e. Soulfire)
-Make that door in The Hole go someplace.
-Leviathan and Mayong Mistmoore as regular raid targets.
-Add a raid boss to every zone and city.
-Eliminate Zone Experience Modifiers
-Stock all zones and dungeons with more unique loot.
-Tweak all tradeskills to make them more relevant to the game (whether required for quests or to just make the items made more worthwhile)

Basically I'd just completely overhaul the classic content, but maintain the classic game mechanics.

[khanable]

release luclin.

subtract:

-new graphics
-bazaar
-cats and their shitty city and basically anything having to do with them
-mounts and stupid novelty pets (if they were introduced here..)
-other awful things that made it awful

add:

-spaceship in steamfont to get to the nexus station (kinda like raft from nro to velious)

I'd play it.

[Grizzler]

getting pretty tired of the amount of whiny threads lately about how project1999 be this and that thing that some asshat personally desires

I don't see the harm in throwing around ideas, thoughts and wishes. Usually a good thing imo although p99 is already whatever the devs want, whether you call them asshats or not is up to you but it's their personal desires that goes into the servers not ours.

[Ezalor]

I don't see the harm in throwing around ideas, thoughts and wishes. Usually a good thing imo although p99 is already whatever the devs want, whether you call them asshats or not is up to you but it's their personal desires that goes into the servers not ours.

except you're not a paying customer

it's a free, private emulator run by volunteers. the whole point from the very beginning is based around excluding luclin, that's why there's the year 1999 in the title project1999.

"well i think the server should be have luclin and be run MY way..."

is being entitled and dickish. it's kinda like showing up to a free soup kitchen and yelling at the volunteers for not serving whatever food you're in the mood for that day

[fadetree]

I would like to see luclin and PoP. It was at PoP that EQ reached it's perfection, only flawed by a few incredibly stupid things. PoP with no stones

[L4m3st0n3]

My one question would then be, how is custom content considered classic then? I understand in the stream they said, "It would have to stay in the realm of classic EQ" but that statement is completely subjective. I enjoy the current servers as they are and am fine with velious but as the devil's advocate, I'm not sure how you can say custom content is more classic EQ than SoL.

P99Devs stated that it would be classic in a way that it would not make current content trivial. If SoL comes out, it makes the 1st 3 expansions almost worthless and like others have said, takes away from the community of the game, AKA the MMO experience. Their custom content ideas related to a quest/npcs added and possibly/hopefully some zone additions just to add on to what is already in-game.

Also, the Luclin models suck, and I'm pretty sure the devs think so too and can't bare to look at them as I cannot either. Probably the main reason.

[JayN]

up with Velious and custom content!

down with Luclin in any way shape or form; thats when everyone cool quit :(...

[Ivory]

is being entitled and dickish. it's kinda like showing up to a free soup kitchen and yelling at the volunteers for not serving whatever food you're in the mood for that day

I'm getting sick of people like you who keep whining about people offering suggestions or asking for features.

Go look up what entitled means.

No one is telling them they HAVE TO DO what we say.

It is like going to a soup kitchen, and they offer you a sandwich, and you go "oh thanks, could i get one with no mayo if possible?" and some asshat behind you starts screaming about "OMG IT IS FREE! STOP HAVING PREFERENCES!!!".

It is really annoying.

[maskedmelon]

up with Velious and custom content!

down with Luclin in any way shape or form; thats when everyone cool quit :(...

I have to admit I never did much in Luclin besides AE FG, and openly peddle KEI in Nexus and swim in my pool of plat when not doing either of those. It was definitely a low point :/

[Ezalor]

you're not asking for a "feature" you're asking for an expansion which is antithetical to the entire point of this server

entitled much?

[maskedmelon]

It is like going to a soup kitchen, and they offer you a sandwich, and you go "oh thanks, could i get one with no mayo if possible?" and some asshat behind you starts screaming about "OMG IT IS FREE! STOP HAVING PREFERENCES!!!".


While Ezor can come across abrasive at times and I am inclined to agree that the original tone if this thread was not entitled, I actually don't see anything wrong with your sandwich illustration. If you don't like it you can buy a sandwich someplace else :/

I don't see that being analogous to this bread though because you have just asked why they don't serve sandwiches without mayo and suggested they might consider it since it is your favorite. That's a perfectly reasonable way to approach the topic.

[Ivory]

you're not asking for a "feature" you're asking for an expansion which is antithetical to the entire point of this server

entitled much?

So you want people to only talk about things you like or agree with?

Now THAT is entitled.

Kid, the world doesn't revolve around you.

[Ivory]

If you don't like it you can buy a sandwich someplace else :/

Asking "any chance you have one without mayo?" isn't the same as "OMG! THESE HAVE MAYO ON IT! YOU ARE SHIT! I DESERVE NO MAYO! I'M NOT EATING THIS SHIT!!! FUCK YOUUUUU".

[Ezalor]

let's see how far we can go with this sandwich analogy

[maskedmelon]

Asking "any chance you have one without mayo?" isn't the same as "OMG! THESE HAVE MAYO ON IT! YOU ARE SHIT! I DESERVE NO MAYO! I'M NOT EATING THIS SHIT!!! FUCK YOUUUUU".

I agree ^^

[Zlain]

"Terrible Luclin graphics." As opposed to the original models? How many fuckin paint chips have you people ingested?

My 2 biggest gripes with the stream announcements was they're "working on" stopping people from using Luclin models, which is complete bullshit cause it impacts NO ONE other than the person using it. and the fact that NOTHING from post Velious expansions will make it, including classes. Instead we have to trust in completely "custom content" for post Velious, whatever that is and no expansion of class skills or anything.

New pixels to smash but no new particles to play with.

[Ivory]

let's see how far we can go with this sandwich analogy


Oh...sorry....I didn't realize you were delusional.

[L4m3st0n3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFyyPNseWvA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su-HUDo7XQ4

[Dacien]

except you're not a paying customer

it's a free, private emulator run by volunteers. the whole point from the very beginning is based around excluding luclin, that's why there's the year 1999 in the title project1999.

"well i think the server should be have luclin and be run MY way..."

is being entitled and dickish. it's kinda like showing up to a free soup kitchen and yelling at the volunteers for not serving whatever food you're in the mood for that day


Honestly dude he just made a thread throwing ideas around, spurring discussion. Your posts are a bruise on an otherwise healthy thread.

[kildone]

getting pretty tired of the amount of whiny threads lately about how project1999 be this and that thing that some asshat personally desires

Yours was the only whiny post on this thread.

ps I have worked in a soup kitchen as a volunteer and they appreciate suggestions and often implement them.

[Erydan Ouragan]

LUCLIN added so many great features.

AAs - Balanced out Druids, Rangers, Wizards, Mages, Necro's and Knights in raids
New Spells - Further balance (druids as main heals, what??)
Tradeskills are useful - TS in Classic-Velious are almost useful. If not for JC and Alchemy, they would be
Bazaar - Dealing with greedy resellers is the worst
Raid Mechanics - Too many people focus on Vex Thal's dumbness. The raid mechanics of the mobs in Ssra, The Deep, Akhevans Ruins, Umbral Plains, LIS... We're fantastic. Cursed Cycle, Emperor, Thoughtfiend... Shei Vinitras is probably the best fight in Luclin. Death adds to prevent zerging, death touches to prevent stalling/adding urgency, fixed spawn sets of adds with mixes of slowables intended to be offtanked and mezzables, intended to be CC'd, room based mana drain that stressed the importance of placement

Luclin confirmed 2nd best expansion behind PoP.

Agreed 100%.

I'll even argue that Luclin and PoP are classic. Maybe not classic Everquest per se, but rather classic MMO.

The things that set pre-PoP EQ and other MMOs are mainly instancing (raids and group) and group interdependence.

Luclin and PoP still had that classic, old-school MMO feeling with static camps, competition for raid spawns and classes having very well-defined roles in groups and raids. It was just better with AAs and new spells, making every class powerful and fun to play without ability bloating and anyone being really overpowered.

Warriors were still raid tanks, clerics were still the best healers, chanters still the king of CC, etc. It was just like what most people here consider classic (classic+kunark+PoP), just better.

[Grobb 1999]

New Spells - Further balance (druids as main heals, what??)

Luclin confirmed 2nd best expansion behind PoP.

wut? It's the most damaging expansion, only ahead of PoP slightly. It completely skewed the classes.

[Rararboker]

Most of you seem new to the forum (only seen you posting for the last few weeks/months) and are probably unaware this thread pops up regularly. Most of the old timers/regulars are tired of hearing about it. Luckily the Devs have been extremely open about their plans and have 0 intention of including SoL or PoP. So no reason to get so mad when someone brings up SoL or PoP. Likewise, don't be surprised when you start SoL/PoP Thread #4465235 and people seem annoyed.

[Grizzler]

Most of you seem new to the forum (only seen you posting for the last few weeks/months) and are probably unaware this thread pops up regularly. Most of the old timers/regulars are tired of hearing about it. Luckily the Devs have been extremely open about their plans and have 0 intention of including SoL or PoP. So no reason to get so mad when someone brings up SoL or PoP. Likewise, don't be surprised when you start SoL/PoP Thread #4465235 and people seem annoyed.

Well that really doesn't give the vets/regulars the go ahead to just be nasty to ppl. Although from what I've seen on my high lvl char in the past I'm not all that surprised since it seems the vet/regulars feel this is "their special pond" and anyone else should shut up or leave. Maybe a reason that a population of 1600+ is a record here..

[Rararboker]

Well that really doesn't give the vets/regulars the go ahead to just be nasty to ppl. Although from what I've seen on my high lvl char in the past I'm not all that surprised since it seems the vet/regulars feel this is "their special pond" and anyone else should shut up or leave. Maybe a reason that a population of 1600+ is a record here..

No it doesn't give them the "go-ahead" but they are free to say what they want because they are humans. And I don't blame them in this situation.

Not to mention you sound an awfully lot like you think people shouldn't be able to speak their minds. That is a dangerous thought process.

[Dacien]

No it doesn't give them the "go-ahead" but they are free to say what they want because they are humans. And I don't blame them in this situation.

Not to mention you sound an awfully lot like you think people shouldn't be able to speak their minds. That is a dangerous thought process.

At least he was able to thoroughly derail the thread.

[maskedmelon]

Well that really doesn't give the vets/regulars the go ahead to just be nasty to ppl. Although from what I've seen on my high lvl char in the past I'm not all that surprised since it seems the vet/regulars feel this is "their special pond" and anyone else should shut up or leave. Maybe a reason that a population of 1600+ is a record here..

I think the heart of the issue is that conflicting wants come at a cost to one party. If people come in looking for change it is natural for those who are contented to feel threatened at least in part. Some people just react differently.

I personally liked AA and some aspects of PoP and might enjoy relieving those experiences, but not at the cost of the ones I can have here. And we can't have both (unless we launch another server for that purpose) because releasing SoL or PoP will unavoidably alter the old world experience.

To your early comment on classic as a concept in the eye of the beholder, I'd agree that we can hold different preferences about what made EQ great and I can understand your argument that SoL should be more 'classic' than custom content, but the validity of that argument weighs heavily on the meaning of 'classic' for the developers, they consider the first 3 releases to be sufficiently similar, while the 4th (Luclin) differs sufficiently to warrant exclusion.

Under that pretext anything made within the vein of the first 3 releases is more classic. Now, that does not mean SoL could not be modified to fit the design parameters of the earlier releases (eliminate AA, bazaar, nexus, aliens, etc.), but the content would be too robust and would irrevocably trivialize old world content :/ I'm that regard, Luclin is just too good ;) or too much.

[fadetree]

MOAR LULIN AFTER VERIOUS PREEZ WANT PEWPEW AA

[Grizzler]

No it doesn't give them the "go-ahead" but they are free to say what they want because they are humans. And I don't blame them in this situation.

Not to mention you sound an awfully lot like you think people shouldn't be able to speak their minds. That is a dangerous thought process.

Not at all, actually the complete opposite. I think everyone should be able to speak their minds and I would never wanna stifle anyone's ideas/suggestions/etc. It just seems that the ideas of the newer folks are deemed "unworthy" because of the fact that they are new.

[Dacien]

In order to increase the longevity of the server, I do think something will have to be done. The best idea I can think of would be custom, Velious-level content.

But that's asking a lot from a group of volunteers.

[Grizzler]

I think the heart of the issue is that conflicting wants come at a cost to one party. If people come in looking for change it is natural for those who are contented to feel threatened at least in part. Some people just react differently.

I personally liked AA and some aspects of PoP and might enjoy relieving those experiences, but not at the cost of the ones I can have here. And we can't have both (unless we launch another server for that purpose) because releasing SoL or PoP will unavoidably alter the old world experience.

To your early comment on classic as a concept in the eye of the beholder, I'd agree that we can hold different preferences about what made EQ great and I can understand your argument that SoL should be more 'classic' than custom content, but the validity of that argument weighs heavily on the meaning of 'classic' for the developers, they consider the first 3 releases to be sufficiently similar, while the 4th (Luclin) differs sufficiently to warrant exclusion.

Under that pretext anything made within the vein of the first 3 releases is more classic. Now, that does not mean SoL could not be modified to fit the design parameters of the earlier releases (eliminate AA, bazaar, nexus, aliens, etc.), but the content would be too robust and would irrevocably trivialize old world content :/ I'm that regard, Luclin is just too good ;) or too much.

I agree with you and trust me, I'm the guy that "doesn't have a dog in this fight". It wouldn't matter to me if they did put in later expansions or not. I like the server as it is so I really dont even care about velious. My main point has been more of a "devil's advocate" in that the view of luclin, pop or whatever could be considered more classic than custom content because of their original inclusion in the game. I'm more interested in finding the reasoning for some of the ideas posed by the devs and community.

[Crescens]

Thanks everyone for adding to the thread and no thanks to the people straight up bashing the idea of talking about ideas. Anyways I would like to hear about how / why you guys few SoL changes the game so much that it breaks classic? Was it AAs make you too powerful at somepoint? Was it the weird ass teleportation travel to the nexus that you still had to wait for? New gear imo probably makes old content easier but that is going to be the same with Velious end-game stuff.

[Grizzler]

In order to increase the longevity of the server, I do think something will have to be done. The best idea I can think of would be custom, Velious-level content.

But that's asking a lot from a group of volunteers.

I think the idea of having a "progression server" as they have said they plan to implement in the future would be the main component to keeping the longevity of the server. I've personally never played anything with custom content, so not sure what that would entail but I would think just having a server that goes a certain amount of time and then resets would be great and especially if they are going to merge those characters onto the current blue server, allows for folks not only to keep the chars that they want but also experience the different time frames of EQ's life at least up until a point in time.

[Vorkon]

I'd be cool with them grabbing some of the zones/raid content from luclin and doing whatever they needed to do to 'classic-ify' it as custom content (levels/loot tables) would be cool. But as others have mentioned, I felt that a lot of the additional content was meh, aa's, bazaar, nexus, space cat people, etc... took a lot out of the game for me in a sense. Though a lot of the raid content was neat and new feeling, the luclin world wasn't something I explicitly enjoyed.

Kunark/Velious were the 2 time periods I loved the most.

[maskedmelon]

The custom content that I would honestly think make the most sense would be re-itemizing & tuning PoP zones for individual release along with creation of new overland targets (giants, dragons, undead, etc.).

[Grizzler]

I'd be cool with them grabbing some of the zones/raid content from luclin and doing whatever they needed to do to 'classic-ify' it as custom content (levels/loot tables) would be cool. But as others have mentioned, I felt that a lot of the additional content was meh, aa's, bazaar, nexus, space cat people, etc... took a lot out of the game for me in a sense. Though a lot of the raid content was neat and new feeling, the luclin world wasn't something I explicitly enjoyed.

Kunark/Velious were the 2 time periods I loved the most.

The custom content that I would honestly think make the most sense would be re-itemizing & tuning PoP zones for individual release along with creation of new overland targets (giants, dragons, undead, etc.).

Both of these ideas I really like. Re-tuning zones from later expansions and incorporating them to the current server I think would be a great way to create "custom content". Allowing for something that was in EQ at some point I think would be a much better route than just making some random stuff.

[Vorkon]

Both of these ideas I really like. Re-tuning zones from later expansions and incorporating them to the current server I think would be a great way to create "custom content". Allowing for something that was in EQ at some point I think would be a much better route than just making some random stuff.

Ssra temple was one of my favorite eq raid zones.

[myke66]

My only argument for post velious content is class balancing. Its kinda shitty playing a "lesser" class knowing it will never, ever get better.

[Seltius]

There are several reasons SoL is a departure from Classic Everquest:

1. Setting - the game changes from adventures in slaying dragons and orcs to battling aliens in outer space.
2. Community - introduction of the nexus/bazaar was the beginning of unraveling of the Classic Everquest community. The world expansion also furthers dilution of the player population.
3. Mechanics - the alternate advancement system was a radical departure from original EQ game design. While it has it's merits, it would ultimate trivialize a vast amount of content on a locked server like this one.

SoL was not classic Everquest. It was a departure from it. Some people do not consider Velious or Kunark classic for their roles (albeit to a much lesser extent) in some of the above (expanded world, changed mechanics, etc.), but most just view the tweaks in those expansions as a fleshing out of the original design.


I like this explanation.

[dafier]

IMO:

Velious was the absolute last 'classic' EQ expansion. I remember playing hard core throughout beta, release, Kunark (short lived) and then Velious release.

Luclin changed the game in a way where so many original ideas were gone. They were all circumvented with new abilities and such.

Velious, in defense of it and just like Kunark, simply added content only. It changed the UI, how you get epics, and a few other things, but the original ideas and concept did NOT change. You still needed to grind, you still needed specific strategies to take down X Raid targets.

------

My most favourite expansion though, personally, was PoP. By far that was the most awesome expansion to the game that was morphing in to new ideas and concepts.

Personally I played up until GoD, but by that time I was disenchanted with the direction SoE was going....same old crap just produce more content and nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf......

Sorry, I went off track there but ya, I think expansions past Velious are not the classical EQ game play. They may be awesome, but they introduce stuff that breaks through the classic game at the time. Evolution....that explains it.

[dafier]

Seltius: I agree with MaskedMelon too. That explanation is on par with how I feel, except for the outer space portion. I think of those weird beasts as the craziness you see in D&D. Maybe from different planes or whatever.

Oops....another thought.

AAs were a radical addition, not departure. Like in my previous post, the game evolved....and fast.

[loramin]

I'd be cool with them grabbing some of the zones/raid content from luclin and doing whatever they needed to do to 'classic-ify' it as custom content (levels/loot tables) would be cool.

The custom content that I would honestly think make the most sense would be re-itemizing & tuning PoP zones for individual release along with creation of new overland targets (giants, dragons, undead, etc.).

I don't have the thread handy, but not too long ago one of the major devs (either Nilbog or Haynar) mentioned that they likely won't be repurposing Luclin/PoP/whatever zones, because it's actually easier for them to make completely new zones than it is to revamp old ones.

Personally I think it's a little sad, as I wouldn't mind seeing some of those zones again, but at the same time I have great faith in the P99 devs. These people have been working for years to re-create classic EverQuest, sacrificing their ability to play EverQuest (or do anything else with their free time) simply to achieve that goal. If anyone could possibly give us an expansion that feels like it belongs after Velious, it would be them.

[Ivory]

Personally I think it's a little sad, as I wouldn't mind seeing some of those zones again,

Wow, so the free game that you are playing and the team has put together and is hosting isn't good enough for you? Threatening to leave because you aren't getting your way won't work, the devs really don't care what you want.

Entitled much?

[loramin]

Wow, so the free game that you are playing and the team has put together and is hosting isn't good enough for you? Threatening to leave because you aren't getting your way won't work, the devs really don't care what you want.

Entitled much?

Ummmm ...

[kaev]

Cats on Moon.

Awful character models.

Terrible UI enhancements.

I didn't care at all for Cats on the Moon, and the Beastlord class added exactly nothing of value to the game.

I disliked intensely what new models did to Ogres, Trolls, Dwarves, & Iksar. I outright despise the new model Half Elf plate helm. Also, some of the new model animations are just plain awful in a not at all entertaining way. Not much to love and tons to hate, "awful" seems a reasonable assessment.

But I don't recall being unhappy at all with UI changes at Luclin. I am curious as to which UI enhancements offend you, and why.

[Seltius]

IMO:


My most favourite expansion though, personally, was PoP. By far that was the most awesome expansion to the game that was morphing in to new ideas and concepts.




I have to agree after SoV the next and last expansion I really enjoyed was PoP. The amount of content and variety while not holding to classic really made the game fun. And it was a welcome distraction from SoL.

[L4m3st0n3]

I didn't care at all for Cats on the Moon, and the Beastlord class added exactly nothing of value to the game.

I disliked intensely what new models did to Ogres, Trolls, Dwarves, & Iksar. I outright despise the new model Half Elf plate helm. Also, some of the new model animations are just plain awful in a not at all entertaining way. Not much to love and tons to hate, "awful" seems a reasonable assessment.

But I don't recall being unhappy at all with UI changes at Luclin. I am curious as to which UI enhancements offend you, and why.

I was so disappointed when Luclin came out. I was like yay new graphics, then was all like.. WTF IS THIS CRAP? Everything didn't move as fluid as it used to and felt extremely clunky. I hated it.

[dafier]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaP9Bwdqubs

The end of this video shows one of the most favourite places I loved to hunt. Those vampires were AWESOME! I will miss that.

[applesauce25r624]

Cats on Moon.

Awful character models.

Terrible UI enhancements.

we don't have to roll vah shir

we can use the cool old models

titanium/Duxa/bush/towers/etc

[Halem]

Skip Luclin, add AA's, add PoP.

[iruinedyourday]

I think these thoughts are finished, now that we have recycle99 on the horizon

[toolshed]

This server needs AA because you need something to fucking do if you don't want to join the absolute shitfest that is 'raiding'. Seriously - Project1999 is fucking awful for casuals because there is ZERO content outside of raiding.

[Ivory]

This server needs AA because you need something to fucking do if you don't want to join the absolute shitfest that is 'raiding'. Seriously - Project1999 is fucking awful for casuals because there is ZERO content outside of raiding.

What do you mean zero content??? You can always go to the 1 or 2 zones that people level in for the best exp rate! ((they don't care about loot, so they stay in the best exp spots))

Or you can solo! ((but good luck getting any loot, and even if you do, it won't be worth much...no one will buy your level 30 loot for their alts)).

Or you can make an alt and repeat :D

[Cecily]

The make an alt and repeat alternative to alternative advancement is part of the mess this server turned into. While I'm sure this wasn't true for everyone, I never invested time on more than one character to any serious degree over the course of playing EQ for 3 years. On P99 over the same period of time, I have nearly 4 max level characters. I really just wanna play Cecily, but there's no point.

[Bolix]

i would love to raid luclin and pop.
i would quite like AA

don't really mind not having cats, beastlords, graphics or bazaar or stones

[contemptor]

Ssra temple was one of my favorite eq raid zones.
.

[Clark]

I think these thoughts are finished, now that we have recycle99 on the horizon

lol

[Clark]

i would love to raid luclin and pop.
i would quite like AA

[Erydan Ouragan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaP9Bwdqubs

The end of this video shows one of the most favourite places I loved to hunt. Those vampires were AWESOME! I will miss that.

The coterie vampires.. that's in Tenebrous Mountains, iirc. They were pretty cool yeah!

My favorite zone is Akheva Ruins. It's the first zone where i grouped with my friend after catching up to him, that's the first time when i really felt "high level".

I don't know why i love it so much, it just feels like home. Even during PoP, i would go back to solo centis, despite BoT and other PoP zones giving a lot more AAxp. Just to hang out there.

[Dacien]

2. Community - introduction of the nexus/bazaar was the beginning of unraveling of the Classic Everquest community.

I have to admit, chilling out in the tunnels and looking at all the posted loot, making an offer, meeting with the guy, the whole deal... it's as much fun buying as it is to actually equip the loot.

[Synthlol]

My one question would then be, how is custom content considered classic then? I understand in the stream they said, "It would have to stay in the realm of classic EQ" but that statement is completely subjective. I enjoy the current servers as they are and am fine with velious but as the devil's advocate, I'm not sure how you can say custom content is more classic EQ than SoL.

You can say custom content is more classic than SoL if it

1. Doesn't radically change the setting of the game.
2. Doesn't unravel the way the community interacts with itself/
3. Doesn't trivialize most of the content already available on the server.

It doesn't matter that these things are subjective, because this is not a democracy. Get it together, man.

[Grizzler]

You can say custom content is more classic than SoL if it

1. Doesn't radically change the setting of the game.
2. Doesn't unravel the way the community interacts with itself/
3. Doesn't trivialize most of the content already available on the server.

It doesn't matter that these things are subjective, because this is not a democracy. Get it together, man.

I realize this isn't a democracy and have said as much in my previous posts. Again this is more to find out what the reasoning for feeling that something that was implemented into the game at one time or another isn't as good as something original made by devs that never worked for the EQ franchise.

As you and others have listed, I have gotten the answer to my question.

*Edit* - Although I still think that a "custom content" addition that was reworked zones from other EQ expansions not implemented would be a great way of doing custom content. However, another poster mentioned that the devs had said that it would be harder to do that than just reworking current zones or creating completely original content.

[maskedmelon]

Again this is more to find out what the reasoning for feeling that something that was implemented into the game at one time or another isn't as good as something original made by devs that never worked for the EQ franchise.


One other reason is that the developers responsible for the first three releases are not the same as those for subsequent releases. The original developers left to form their own company and begin work on another project. That is another reason for the line at Velious in the classic community.

[fadetree]

My favorite zone is Akheva Ruins. It's the first zone where i grouped with my friend after catching up to him, that's the first time when i really felt "high level".

I don't know why i love it so much, it just feels like home. Even during PoP, i would go back to solo centis, despite BoT and other PoP zones giving a lot more AAxp. Just to hang out there.

Me too. That's where I ground out 45 FREAKIN AA's on my quest to get AM3/EQ. Great creepy zone, nobody there but me and my boxed healer. Perfect.

[milsorgen]

The one thing I liked about Loose Lin was the transportation. A perfect middle ground between boats and PoP EZ mode.

[Amyas]

I will be happy as long as the level caps stays at 60 and we never see PoP

[chipz]

Luclin and PoP were easily the 2 greatest EQ expansions.
Fuck EC tunnel.
Shit new Luclin graphics? What? Wtf are you playing with right now? Literally the worst fucking graphics I have ever seen. Eat more paint chips.
Traveling to a moon is badass. Stop being childish about it.
AA's are fucking badass. Gave you something to actually do at 60 instead of beating your dick as you stare at whatever female character you made.

[wormed]

Luclin and PoP were easily the 2 greatest EQ expansions.
Fuck EC tunnel.
Shit new Luclin graphics? What? Wtf are you playing with right now? Literally the worst fucking graphics I have ever seen. Eat more paint chips.
Traveling to a moon is badass. Stop being childish about it.
AA's are fucking badass. Gave you something to actually do at 60 instead of beating your dick as you stare at whatever female character you made.

Agreed, minus your clear cataracts for Luclin models. They're shit. End.

[chipz]

Never said they were good but they're better than the square blocks my ***** has for a head

[wormed]

Never said they were good but they're better than the square blocks my ***** has for a head

http://users.skynet.be/tobold/DwarfEQ1.jpg

vs

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1992/1243650-race_dwarf_luclin.jpg

No. Just no. That blocky ass model is a million times better than that weird-as-fuck, malformed, retard dwarf body. I don't care if his head is rounded, he looks so damn stupid!

[chipz]

I prefer the Luclin models. Those blocks lol!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

http://users.skynet.be/tobold/DwarfEQ1.jpg

vs

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1992/1243650-race_dwarf_luclin.jpg

No. Just no. That blocky ass model is a million times better than that weird-as-fuck, malformed, retard dwarf body. I don't care if his head is rounded, he looks so damn stupid!

you cannot argue against proof like this, sorry op.

[myriverse]

http://users.skynet.be/tobold/DwarfEQ1.jpg

vs

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1992/1243650-race_dwarf_luclin.jpg

No. Just no. That blocky ass model is a million times better than that weird-as-fuck, malformed, retard dwarf body. I don't care if his head is rounded, he looks so damn stupid!
You are objectively wrong and blind.

[Deckk]

Luclin models are so bad.

[keysmash]

Luclin models are great. Who doesn't love seeing their giant, malformed muscles through their skin-tight robes? And everyone standing with their hips cocked to the side like they're on a fashion shoot? Just genius.

[Jaleth]

release luclin.

subtract:

-new graphics
-bazaar
-cats and their shitty city and basically anything having to do with them
-mounts and stupid novelty pets (if they were introduced here..)
-other awful things that made it awful

add:

-spaceship in steamfont to get to the nexus station (kinda like raft from nro to velious)

I'd play it.

What about AA'S then? Paladins and SK'S get Holy and Unholy Steeds respectively, how would that be handled? To me those were some of the most useful AA'S they got.

[Corpsed]

When is someone going to make a thread about bringing LDON back?

[Swish]

When is someone going to make a thread about bringing LDON back?

If I was a developer I would totally do a LDON server, those time limit/mob clear ones particularly were great fun :)

Is there one on the server list?

[drktmplr12]

except you're not a paying customer

it's a free, private emulator run by volunteers. the whole point from the very beginning is based around excluding luclin, that's why there's the year 1999 in the title project1999.

"well i think the server should be have luclin and be run MY way..."

is being entitled and dickish. it's kinda like showing up to a free soup kitchen and yelling at the volunteers for not serving whatever food you're in the mood for that day

except you're not a paying customer

it's a free, private emulator run by volunteers. the whole point from the very beginning is based around excluding luclin, that's why there's the year 1999 in the title project1999.

"well i think the server should be have luclin and be run MY way..."

is being entitled and dickish. it's kinda like showing up to a free soup kitchen and yelling at the volunteers for not serving whatever food you're in the mood for that day

i agree. people shouldn't be able to talk about what soups they like in a soup kitchen unless it is on the menu. :rolleyes:

this is discussion on a forum expressly placed here for people to share opinions. im sure your opinion on the topic is welcome, but no one really asked what you think about others having these discussions. maybe you want to make your own thread about it? then again, that's none of my business.

imo AAs added alot of replay value and did a great job balancing classes. there are lots of examples of this being the case. unlocking AAs was also very satisfying. unfortunately, the devs claimed to have ripped out the code for AAs. no proof to back this up, but all the added crit %s, flat bonuses, higher double attacks, manaburns, etc would HAVE to cause disruptions in velious-era content. i think that some AAs could be considered/modified to make certain undesired classes more viable in a unique way.

im probably biased because i used to play a druid and they benefited nicely from SoL.

[Tiewon Shu]

Luclin also did bring to the table a lot of "spiritually classic" content. The "newbie" armor quests for all classes come to mind. In classic EQ, at least with Kunark, the Iksar are practically the only race with newbie armor quests. In Luclin, all races received them, the dark elf cleric armor quests comes to mind.

Likewise, Luclin also brought about the idea of craftsmen needing other craftsmen, strengthening the crafting economy. The bazaar was actually a great idea, but was implemented poorly. They should have moved the bazaar to the EC Tunnel and disabled "AFK" Trading.

You could argue that battling aliens is not classic, but aliens and sci-fi were long a part of EQ history before Luclin, Rodcet Nife anyone?

Let's also not forget how Luclin also made great enhancements to the class system like Ranged Damage for Rangers and the Beastlord class.

Luclin was not without it's bad points to, namely The Nexus which trivialized the size of the EQ world, while the avatars looked good: new combat animations sucked & all the armor looked the same, The Bazaar (see above), mounts just destroyed the balance of being a caster (sitting/medding while casting), you "needed" AA's to be remotely successful in the end game.

All in all, if the devs were to add custom content, they should really consider the above "spiritually classic" ideas Luclin brought to the table, to recap:

1. Newbie armor quests for all races/classes
2. Make rangers be rangers with ranged DPS
3. Craftsman interdependence.
4. A bazaar relocated to the EC with no AFK Trading.
5. The Beastlord Class
6. The Vashir race, but place them on Kerra Isle or a custom Island.

[webrunner5]

imo AAs added a lot of replay value and did a great job balancing classes. there are lots of examples of this being the case. unlocking AAs was also very satisfying.

I agree completely. What the hell else do you do once you hit 60. :(

[Tiewon Shu]

except you're not a paying customer

it's a free, private emulator run by volunteers. the whole point from the very beginning is based around excluding luclin, that's why there's the year 1999 in the title project1999.

"well i think the server should be have luclin and be run MY way..."

is being entitled and dickish. it's kinda like showing up to a free soup kitchen and yelling at the volunteers for not serving whatever food you're in the mood for that day

By your reasoning then, Velious should not exist, nor should Kunark, as both were released and updated from 2000-2001.

[Daldaen]

Luclin's AAs, Spells, Focus Effects, Wizard Critical Blasts, Bazaar, Tradeskills becoming useful, Newbie armor - And before you hate on it, look at the ORIGINAL stats on this armor before you hate it. They were really bad, but they provided meaningful quests that newbs could do in EverQUEST to gain gear while they leveled if they put together a list of the times they needed and collected/killed accordingly.

All fantastic. Luclin Spells are often overlooked. They were incredible. KEI which is a combination of C2, GoBrilliance and E combined in one buff (I believe it literally has the exact same stats as those three buffs combined)... OP on noobs but extremely convenient for raiding/level appropriate characters. Druids gained a CH-light spell to be more useful on raids. Rangers got some archery based spells for accuracy and mana regens. Clerics got group buffs, HoTs and self mana regens. Etc.

Luclin was baller. The PC models were lame.

[Tiewon Shu]

except you're not a paying customer

it's a free, private emulator run by volunteers. the whole point from the very beginning is based around excluding luclin, that's why there's the year 1999 in the title project1999...

I can't speak for the developers, but I would gather they would not run a private emulator with the notion of not having anyone play on their server. And while it may be free to play, they do have a donation link on their site, and those who invest in the project should have at least a channel to submit their ideas and opinions... like this thread. :D


...is being entitled and dickish. it's kinda like showing up to a free soup kitchen and yelling at the volunteers for not serving whatever food you're in the mood for that day

Plenty of soup kitchens out there that accommodate both meat eaters and vegetarians. :)

[TarukShmaruk]

LUCLIN added so many great features.

AAs - Balanced out Druids, Rangers, Wizards, Mages, Necro's and Knights in raids
New Spells - Further balance (druids as main heals, what??)
Tradeskills are useful - TS in Classic-Velious are almost useful. If not for JC and Alchemy, they would be
Bazaar - Dealing with greedy resellers is the worst
Raid Mechanics - Too many people focus on Vex Thal's dumbness. The raid mechanics of the mobs in Ssra, The Deep, Akhevans Ruins, Umbral Plains, LIS... We're fantastic. Cursed Cycle, Emperor, Thoughtfiend... Shei Vinitras is probably the best fight in Luclin. Death adds to prevent zerging, death touches to prevent stalling/adding urgency, fixed spawn sets of adds with mixes of slowables intended to be offtanked and mezzables, intended to be CC'd, room based mana drain that stressed the importance of placement

Luclin confirmed 2nd best expansion behind PoP.

Nah all the Luclin content itself was horrid. Most of the zones were completely worthless - shitty loot, shitty xp, hard mobs.

Most of the raids were awful and overly long fights like the burrower.

AAs and such were good.

PoP was one of the best expansions behind kunark and velious.

Anyhow, all that being said, in another 4 years people are going to be tired of Velious and there's going to be some real demand for Luclin/whatever content. Nothing wrong with that or discussion about it.

edit: Luclin models were fucking trash. All of the original models had character to them - gnomes, dwarves, ogres, trolls, etc. The bolded races were completely ruined by their model revamp. I feel confident that every single person alive or dead that ever played an ogre/troll preferred the goofy tubby original models to the crap they came up with later.

[Rararboker]

I can't speak for the developers, but I would gather they would not run a private emulator with the notion of not having anyone play on their server. And while it may be free to play, they do have a donation link on their site, and those who invest in the project should have at least a channel to submit their ideas and opinions... like this thread. :D




Plenty of soup kitchens out there that accommodate both meat eaters and vegetarians. :)

Nilbog has actually said in the past that he would rather run a classic server with no players than make huge non classic changes. So, yeah, your first statement is off.

[TheDementio]

Hmm. I didn't realize AA's weren't in the game at Velious. That kind of sucks. AA's were an idea I always loved about EQ, though I never got a character high enough on live while I played. It was something I was really looking forward to playing around with this around.

I hate the EC tunnel though. Getting to it, especially at low levels or as a newbie, is a pain. Sitting for hours trying to hawk wares that aren't rare or in high demand, instead of playing my character? Hate it. But if I want some gear, or the plat to buy my spells, I need to do just that. It may be classic, but it's time consuming in a completely no fun way. I understand some people love it; more power to you.

Please note, before someone has a problem with my opinions, that they're my personal opinions. I'm not asking, expecting, or even hoping the developers will change anything to suit me. If I find lack of AA's and trips to the EC tunnel to be too frustrating or whatever, I'll leave. This isn't my incarnation of the game.

[TarukShmaruk]

AAs and focus items for casters were just huge.

Getting improved damage or mana conservation or whatever was really fun to do as a caster class.

[Ket]

PoP ports - taking the facet of finding and buying ports from other players
Bazaar - Taking the facet of finding and buying fear from other players

Also, those arguing about the balancing of certain classes, like Ranger ..I dunno, I kinda like certain classes not being balanced. It makes it easy to be a crappy Ranger, and harder to be a GOOD ranger. I rather enjoy playing a class others scorn just to hear the "Hey, he's a good <insert crappy class here>, let's invite him".

And cat's are dumb. Never trust a man with a cat.

[Itap]

And cat's are dumb. Never trust a man with a cat.

99% of the "men" that play here have cats, see cat thread.

I don't though, never liked the idea of an animal shitting in my house

[TarukShmaruk]

There's a lot of really quality class changes that come with Luclin that I wish we got here - I wouldn't even think of playing a wizard without familiars and focus items

Mages getting the summon able focus items was super cool too.

But I would have argued even p1999 would have been better off with the absurd hybrid xp penalties removed long before velious so shrug

[iruinedyourday]

What's a familiar?

[mr_jon3s]

Also, those arguing about the balancing of certain classes, like Ranger ..I dunno, I kinda like certain classes not being balanced. It makes it easy to be a crappy Ranger, and harder to be a GOOD ranger. I rather enjoy playing a class others scorn just to hear the "Hey, he's a good <insert crappy class here>, let's invite him".
.

I hate this argument. Even if you're playing a balanced class people are still gonna say "Hey, he's a good <insert class here>, let's invite him". The problem with unbalanced classes is they are bad. Say you have two people lfg and both are good at their class but one class is crap and the other class is just all around better. You are gonna pick the better class everytime.

[Rararboker]

I hate this argument. Even if you're playing a balanced class people are still gonna say "Hey, he's a good <insert class here>, let's invite him". The problem with unbalanced classes is they are bad. Say you have two people lfg and both are good at their class but one class is crap and the other class is just all around better. You are gonna pick the better class everytime.


Yes and this is a huge hallmark of classic eq. You know, that game we are all here for.

[wormed]

Yes and this is a huge hallmark of classic eq. You know, that game we are all here for.

I find that as the game progressed, to a point, it further defined the classes, rather than just made them balanced. Which I felt was a good thing.

[TarukShmaruk]

What's a familiar?

They were non combat pets that gave bonuses to stats like hp and mana regen and stuff like that

One of the big steps to helping wizards not be complete ass in a group setting. I mean they were still ass but it helped

[mr_jon3s]

Yes and this is a huge hallmark of classic eq. You know, that game we are all here for.

For me the only reason I'm here is because other servers have boxing. If I could play on a PoP server without boxing and had the population of p99 I would. But I haven't found a server like this and so I'm here.

[myriverse]

For me the only reason I'm here is because other servers have boxing. If I could play on a PoP server without boxing and had the population of p99 I would. But I haven't found a server like this and so I'm here.
^^This^^

[Rararboker]

Well then, probably not going to be as fun for you then. I am pretty happy where the server is and where it plans to go. And this is coming from someone who mains a class who gets massive benefits from SoL and PoP.

[webrunner5]

They were non combat pets that gave bonuses to stats like hp and mana regen and stuff like that

One of the big steps to helping wizards not be complete ass in a group setting. I mean they were still ass but it helped

I think they help with less Fizzles also. :cool: