eriamjh
10-13-2010, 07:06 PM
This is something I have personally experienced myself: Even with a Paw of Opolla on a Halfling Druid with base CHA (50 - 5 = 45 CHA, (_30 under average_)), charm should still land for half to full duration a significant portion of the time. I tested this back in 1999/2000 by charming sonic bats in SolB to level from the mid 40s to 50 and then again to the mid 50s once Kunark came out.
In my experience this worked reliably enough to be a viable soloing method with just a 5-10 level difference, no -MR, and abysmal or better CHA, yet on P99 it is still excessively dangerous even with a 10 level difference, no -MR, and 150 CHA.
Here you need at least two of the three following advantages for charm to be reliable enough to be usable in non-emergencies.
A 10 level difference (regarded as a 50 charming a level 40 mob with average MR)
-20 MR from tash, though -40 or more from Tash+Malo is typically required on 45+ mobs for reliable duration (10+ ticks 75% of the time.)
150 minimum CHA, though many players swear that 200 is the "turning point" for reliability.
I am still trying to pin down any official statements on the effects of Charisma on Charm, though the only often repeated claim I have come across is that Charisma is the third and least significant check performed in determining charm duration.
Q: What spell types are affected by Charisma?
A: Charisma does not directly affect any spell. Charisma affects what are known as 'saving throws' or 'secondary throws'.
When you cast a charm spell or mesmerise spell, the monster first checks against your level v it's level, then it checks against its resistance, then it checks against your charisma.
With duration spells such as charms, each tick the monster gets a saving throw and this process is repeated. If any one of these checks is successful (ie: you win the roll) then the spell holds.
Be aware thought that each of these checks is not just a 50 - 50 chance, formulas are in place which give each of these checks more or less of a chance for you to succeed.
Charisma has the smallest chance of succeeding. Your Level and the resistance type check have the greatest chance of you succeeding.
(found at http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1148 . Attributed to http://eq.crgaming.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Enchanter&Page=2 2003-12-30)
In my experience, -MR has the biggest effect followed by CHA, followed by level difference, at least for dark blue monsters at 50 with normal MR.
Here is a discussion I recently stumbled across that has more-or-less reached a consensus that druid charm is barely, if at all, effected by CHA. Also is a quote from another once halfling druid who charm solod with 45 CHA, a near impossibility here.
I charmed raptors for a few levels.
With Cha at 85.
Charm gear was normal gear for me.
Claims: CHA gear is unnecessary.
I kept the raptors clear with that. I still have not seen any 'science' on whether cha effects animal charming, but my low cha had no effect on my killing with a virtually full bar of mana and very little/no downtime.
Claims: Low CHA has no effect on efficient charm soloing.
There has always been a debate on Druid charms and the effect of charisma. I can raise mine by over 30 with different gear... and saw NO difference whatsoever.. I'm sure there are others that would swear by it though.
Claims: 30 CHA over base has no effect "whatsoever" on charm duration.
Lol, I've got 45 cha and CoK usually lasts for awhile and is rarely resisted.
Claims: With 45 CHA (and presumably Glamour of Tunare, -20 MR) Call of Karana (DRU/55) "lasts awhile" and is rarely resisted.
A Quick Question: I thought maybe it was true, but does charisma have anything to do with charm duration? or just the chance for it to land? or anything like at all? Any information on this would be of great help. I wanna know if it's worth replacing my primary and secondary items with cha cups or just go with my horrible 45 charisma and try to charm and kill.
(yes this question was answered 4 hours and/or 1 posts before it was asked and was still asked.. lol)
CHA=76
Been that way forever, and it's not unusual to have CoK last ten minutes or more. Ensnare often runs out before my pet breaks.
I doubt charisma has any effect at all.
Claim: Charm "often" or "usually" lasts as long as ensnare (10-11 mins) and/or Ensnare "often" fades after charm.
CHA = 90
Last night, I had 3 or 4 charms outlast Ensnare. That's not a good thing with a hasted pet dual wielding stun proc weapons.
Claim: It is not uncommon for charm to outlast Ensnare with only 90 CHA, which is exciting!!
...
From the sound of things, druid charm simply can't check CHA the way charm works here. The CHA check here is obviously designed to penalize enchanters who not only normally have 200 CHA but also -20 MR plus the ability to CC most effectively when charm breaks unexpectedly.
That assumed, there is simply no way to buff charm for druids to be in line with these comments without OPing enchanters unless charm is changed to ignore CHA for druids. This was already done for necros to be in line with classic -- can the same please be done for druids given the overwhelming evidence that CHA had little or no effect on druid charm?
In my experience this worked reliably enough to be a viable soloing method with just a 5-10 level difference, no -MR, and abysmal or better CHA, yet on P99 it is still excessively dangerous even with a 10 level difference, no -MR, and 150 CHA.
Here you need at least two of the three following advantages for charm to be reliable enough to be usable in non-emergencies.
A 10 level difference (regarded as a 50 charming a level 40 mob with average MR)
-20 MR from tash, though -40 or more from Tash+Malo is typically required on 45+ mobs for reliable duration (10+ ticks 75% of the time.)
150 minimum CHA, though many players swear that 200 is the "turning point" for reliability.
I am still trying to pin down any official statements on the effects of Charisma on Charm, though the only often repeated claim I have come across is that Charisma is the third and least significant check performed in determining charm duration.
Q: What spell types are affected by Charisma?
A: Charisma does not directly affect any spell. Charisma affects what are known as 'saving throws' or 'secondary throws'.
When you cast a charm spell or mesmerise spell, the monster first checks against your level v it's level, then it checks against its resistance, then it checks against your charisma.
With duration spells such as charms, each tick the monster gets a saving throw and this process is repeated. If any one of these checks is successful (ie: you win the roll) then the spell holds.
Be aware thought that each of these checks is not just a 50 - 50 chance, formulas are in place which give each of these checks more or less of a chance for you to succeed.
Charisma has the smallest chance of succeeding. Your Level and the resistance type check have the greatest chance of you succeeding.
(found at http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1148 . Attributed to http://eq.crgaming.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Enchanter&Page=2 2003-12-30)
In my experience, -MR has the biggest effect followed by CHA, followed by level difference, at least for dark blue monsters at 50 with normal MR.
Here is a discussion I recently stumbled across that has more-or-less reached a consensus that druid charm is barely, if at all, effected by CHA. Also is a quote from another once halfling druid who charm solod with 45 CHA, a near impossibility here.
I charmed raptors for a few levels.
With Cha at 85.
Charm gear was normal gear for me.
Claims: CHA gear is unnecessary.
I kept the raptors clear with that. I still have not seen any 'science' on whether cha effects animal charming, but my low cha had no effect on my killing with a virtually full bar of mana and very little/no downtime.
Claims: Low CHA has no effect on efficient charm soloing.
There has always been a debate on Druid charms and the effect of charisma. I can raise mine by over 30 with different gear... and saw NO difference whatsoever.. I'm sure there are others that would swear by it though.
Claims: 30 CHA over base has no effect "whatsoever" on charm duration.
Lol, I've got 45 cha and CoK usually lasts for awhile and is rarely resisted.
Claims: With 45 CHA (and presumably Glamour of Tunare, -20 MR) Call of Karana (DRU/55) "lasts awhile" and is rarely resisted.
A Quick Question: I thought maybe it was true, but does charisma have anything to do with charm duration? or just the chance for it to land? or anything like at all? Any information on this would be of great help. I wanna know if it's worth replacing my primary and secondary items with cha cups or just go with my horrible 45 charisma and try to charm and kill.
(yes this question was answered 4 hours and/or 1 posts before it was asked and was still asked.. lol)
CHA=76
Been that way forever, and it's not unusual to have CoK last ten minutes or more. Ensnare often runs out before my pet breaks.
I doubt charisma has any effect at all.
Claim: Charm "often" or "usually" lasts as long as ensnare (10-11 mins) and/or Ensnare "often" fades after charm.
CHA = 90
Last night, I had 3 or 4 charms outlast Ensnare. That's not a good thing with a hasted pet dual wielding stun proc weapons.
Claim: It is not uncommon for charm to outlast Ensnare with only 90 CHA, which is exciting!!
...
From the sound of things, druid charm simply can't check CHA the way charm works here. The CHA check here is obviously designed to penalize enchanters who not only normally have 200 CHA but also -20 MR plus the ability to CC most effectively when charm breaks unexpectedly.
That assumed, there is simply no way to buff charm for druids to be in line with these comments without OPing enchanters unless charm is changed to ignore CHA for druids. This was already done for necros to be in line with classic -- can the same please be done for druids given the overwhelming evidence that CHA had little or no effect on druid charm?