Bladestopper Using Reagents

[Daldaen]

It shouldn't burn Reagents.

There was also a discussion on another emulated server (TAK Project) about Instant clickies in general. Basically, spells perform the reagent check during the casting phase of a spell, and either succeed+eat reagent/fail+give no reagent message based on the result of this check. However in the case of instant casts, there is no cast phase and the client was unable to perform the check and the spell goes through with no reagent check being performed.

Regarding Bladestopper specifically:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=1136

RE: Componit?
Quote
Reply
#Mar 19 2001 at 10:31 AMRating: Decent
BigPimpinRan
3 posts
Ummmmm....I have a bladestopper, and it doesn't need a component, and its almost instant casting time too. This shield is everything you want it to be, just like the name says, it stops blades, and clubs, and daggers....

[Man0warr]

So your saying clickies with cast times should require Reagents? Because Lev cloak doesn't (and shouldn't).

Pretty sure PoSky instant clickies require reagents too - for sure the Wizard ring and necklace.

[Thulack]

So your saying clickies with cast times should require Reagents? Because Lev cloak doesn't (and shouldn't).

Pretty sure PoSky instant clickies require reagents too - for sure the Wizard ring and necklace.

No he is saying that items that have reagent costs and are instaclick shouldnt be using the reagents due a instaclick spell not having a reagent check.

[Daldaen]

So your saying clickies with cast times should require Reagents? Because Lev cloak doesn't (and shouldn't).

Pretty sure PoSky instant clickies require reagents too - for sure the Wizard ring and necklace.

I'm suggesting the PoSky clickies you refer to probably shouldn't use reagents, because of what I said above.

The reagent check is performed during casting. With instant cast time there is no casting phase so the check is never done and no reagent is consumed. At least that's how it was on the old client.

It would also explain why magician's summon waterstone and ring of flight don't use reagents for EB/Levitate. Because they are instant cast. Yet shaman potions and other clicks that aren't instant, do use reagents.

Pegasus Cloak, uses Levitation. This is a spell with no reagent. Levitate, the spell casters and priests get, is an entirely different spell and it requires a bat wing reagent. This is why you can stack Levitation and Levitate, they are different spell effects in different slots.

[Pint]

Possibility of wizard neck not requiring sky stones you say? Yes plz

[eisley]

Levitate potions from alchemy require a batwing

Druid boots require a batwing

what is this madness

Pegasus Cloak, uses Levitation. This is a spell with no reagent. Levitate, the spell casters and priests get, is an entirely different spell and it requires a bat wing reagent. This is why you can stack Levitation and Levitate, they are different spell effects in different slots.

[Daldaen]

The reagent check is performed during casting. With instant cast time there is no casting phase so the check is never done and no reagent is consumed. At least that's how it was on the old client.

It would also explain why magician's summon waterstone and ring of flight don't use reagents for EB/Levitate. Because they are instant cast. Yet shaman potions and other clicks that aren't instant, do use reagents.

Bumping. This seems to be a logical connection.

There was also a long standing issue where Bards wouldn't use reagent on any item click. I would imagine it stems from this issue here as well. Since Bards don't have actual "casting" phase, cause bard. On Mac server it was common knowledge and many Bards used the PoK Gate neck which required a reagent for everyone else, except Bards (it had a cast time).

[Ele]

05-28-2000, 05:26 AM We discussed this last night in guildchat, and its safe to assume it would use a peridot (Even though its already been confirmed a few replies up, i'll say this anyways) There are a lot of items in the game that cast spells which normally require reagents (Mystic Cloak, Bladestopper are two examples that fit this first category) They are both *limited* charge items, and don't use a reagent to cast, seems to be the same with anything that proc's a reagent requiring spell, its not on demand, so its of less value, same with limited charge items. However, the Diamond Rod from Innoruuk does require a reagent, and it is in the same category as the leggings, on demand, and unlimited usage.

Discussion on whether or not Donal's Legs were real or not.

http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17&highlight=bladestopper+peridot&page=2

[Daldaen]

Again. Examples of instant cast items not using vs timed cast items using. Thanks for the extra evidence Ele.

[Daldaen]

List:

Instant Casts:

Mystic Cloak - Doesn't use reagent in P99 (Correct)
Summoned: Waterstone - Doesn't use reagent in P99 (Correct)
Summoned: Ring of Flight - Doesn't use reagent in P99 (Correct)

Solidate Mithril Ring - Uses reagent in P99 (Wrong)
Amulet of Planar Transference - Uses reagent in P99 (Wrong)
Bloody Griffon Hide Wrist-Guard - Uses reagent in P99 (Wrong)
Bladestopper - Uses reagent in P99 (Wrong)

Moss Mask - ???
Riptide Spear - ???
Drum of the Beasts (Vel.) - ???
Fish Gill Extract - ???
Rod of the Protecting Winds - ???
Crypt Master's Conjuring Stone (Chardok 2.0) - ???

That's all I could find as far as classic Rune, Symbol, EB, Lev, And any other reagent using spell I could think of.

Update if you happen to know about the ??? Items.

[evilkorn]

Rod of the Protecting Winds from enchanter plane of sky is insta Rune III, should probably be added to the list, I don't see why it wouldn't currently use a reagent.

Crypt Master`s Conjuring Stone -

Oct 10 2001 at 7:33 PMRating: Good
Anonymous
Anonymous
You don't need to coffin. I just used one on my best friend when he fell off the boat and drown in the middle of nowhere without the corpse loc.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6813

[Vega]

Moss Mask - ???
Fish Gill Extract - ???

Update if you happen to know about the ??? Items.

I can confirm that both fish gill extract and moss mask require fish scales on P99. I thought it was a little weird at first, but for some reason convinced myself it was classic.

[Daldaen]

Yea I think it's safe to say no instant clickies should use reagents on this server.

Curious on Nilbog/Kanras/Haynar thoughts on this?

[Whiteberry]

If drums of the Beast requires a regnant on this server, the correct Spell ID for the non regnant EB is 12862

Proof - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=12862

Normal EB - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=86

[Daldaen]

If drums of the Beast requires a regnant on this server, the correct Spell ID for the non regnant EB is 12862

Proof - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=12862

Normal EB - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=86

I imagine there is a way for them to code it to not use reagents regardless of spell ID.

All the items using that non-reagent version are worn effects, not clickies.

They shouldn't worry about swapping spell IDs, more setting a rule if the clicky is instant cast, it shouldn't perform that reagent check.

[Daldaen]

Bump.

Instant clickies shouldn't use reagents at all.

[Erati]

does Mystic Cloak use gems for the Steelskin clicky?

add that to this list if the change is approved

[Pint]

does Mystic Cloak use gems for the Steelskin clicky?

add that to this list if the change is approved

it does

[Nirgon]

mystic cloak I know shouldnt so this is almost certainly right in all cases

never had any of the other mentioned items on live

[Technique]

it doesit doesn't, I just clicked it with no jasper in my inventory

[Daldaen]

Bump.

Instant clickies shouldn't use reagents at all.

[Daldaen]

Bump.

[Daldaen]

Bump

[nilbog]

The underlying issue is the current method of allowing an instant click item to not use reagents.. is to make a new spell id that doesn't use components. Then, changing the clickeffect of the item to the non-component spell.

This is why some of the items function as intended, and some do not. Long long ago I made those changes for the mage ring, waterstone, and mystic cloak.

With that said, spell ids come at a premium. I believe the cap for spellids in spells_new for Titanium is 9999. I'm not totally sure what would happen if we exceeded it, but it would likely involve cthulu. I do not believe we should create a new spellid for each instance of this.

I will confer with the other developers and see if they have another idea.

The following is a list of items with instant clicks where the click effect is a spell which normally requires components. Please review this list and see which, if any, do not belong.

select i.id, i.name, i.casttime, i.casttime_, i.clickeffect, sn.name, sn.components1, i2.name
from items i
join spells_new sn on (sn.id = i.clickeffect)
join items i2 on (i2.id = sn.components1)
where i.casttime <= '0' and i.clickeffect > '0' and sn.components1 >= '0'

id name casttime casttime_ clickeffect name1 components1 name2
1400 Moss Mask 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
1593 Sacred Runed Jasper 0 0 261 Levitate 13068 Bat Wing
1846 Staff of Beta Corpse Summon 0 0 3 Summon Corpse 17355 Jade Inlaid Coffin
2703 Griffon Wing Spauldors 0 0 261 Levitate 13068 Bat Wing
2709 Rotted Griffon-Hide Wrist Guard 0 0 261 Levitate 13068 Bat Wing
3393 Shell Trimmed Bracer 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
3846 Black Feathered Circlet 0 0 261 Levitate 13068 Bat Wing
5126 Hero's Khukri 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
5128 Lord of Pain's Khukri 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
5377 Deep Six Cutlass 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
5738 Crypt Master`s Conjuring Stone 0 0 1773 Conjure Corpse 9962 Tiny Jade Inlaid Coffin
7027 Kerran Fishing Spear 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
7319 Riptide Spear 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
8443 Bag of Bone Dust 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
10377 Wand of Shadow 0 0 494 Invoke Shadow 13073 Bone Chips
11099 Akkirus Aego Buffer 0 0 1447 Aegolism 10028 Peridot
11151 Lightning Earring 0 0 635 Greater Conjuration: Air 10015 Malachite
11152 Fiery Earring 0 0 634 Greater Conjuration: Fire 10015 Malachite
11605 White Dragon Tooth 0 0 443 Invoke Death 13073 Bone Chips
11627 Red Dragon Tooth 0 0 443 Invoke Death 13073 Bone Chips
11632 Bladestopper 0 0 484 Rune IV 10028 Peridot
11686 Solidate Mithril Ring 0 0 393 Steelskin 10020 Jasper
11688 Rod of Warding Winds 0 0 483 Rune III 10020 Jasper
13251 Giant Fire Beetle Eye 0 0 667 Enchant Silver 16500 Silver Bar
13745 Enlarged Fire Beetle Eye 0 0 667 Enchant Silver 16500 Silver Bar
14177 5 Dose Potion of Vox's Vitality 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
14302 Vial of Egg Whites 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
14304 Brazier of Elemental Summoning 0 0 403 Elemental: Fire 10016 Lapis Lazuli
14396 10 Dose Potion of Vox's Vitality 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
14517 Fish Gill Extract 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
14556 Amulet of Planar Transference 0 0 674 Alter Plane: Sky 10094 Cloudy Stone of Veeshan
15982 Mystic Brooch 0 0 393 Steelskin 10020 Jasper
16461 Potion of Vox's Vitality 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
16873 Aqualung 0 0 478 Breath of the Dead 13076 Fish Scales
21603 Deeppocket Hollow Staff 0 0 1777 Conceal Rapier 21602 Deeppocket Rapier
21607 Imbued Deeppocket Traveling Staff 0 0 1782 Unconceal Rapier 21607 Imbued Deeppocket Traveling Staff
24737 Drums of the Beast 0 0 86 Enduring Breath 13076 Fish Scales
27710 Amulet of the Void 0 0 674 Alter Plane: Sky 10094 Cloudy Stone of Veeshan
27711 Rod of the Protecting Winds 0 0 483 Rune III 10020 Jasper
27712 Bloody Griffon-Hide Wrist Guard 0 0 261 Levitate 13068 Bat Wing
29050 Dragon Tooth Choker 0 0 236 Shieldskin 10026 Cat's Eye Agate
59715 Orb of Transmutation 0 0 4350 Transmute Hunter's Dagger 59740 Purified Crystal

[Ele]

1x Akkrius Aego Buffer plz.

Would love you forever.

[Thulack]

I want to say the Enlarged Fire Beetle eye should probably always require the silver bar to make a enchanted bar.

[Daldaen]

11099 Akkirus Aego Buffer 0 0 1447 Aegolism 10028 Peridot
11151 Lightning Earring 0 0 635 Greater Conjuration: Air 10015 Malachite
11152 Fiery Earring 0 0 634 Greater Conjuration: Fire 10015 Malachite
13745 Enlarged Fire Beetle Eye 0 0 667 Enchant Silver 16500 Silver Bar
15982 Mystic Brooch 0 0 393 Steelskin 10020 Jasper
21603 Deeppocket Hollow Staff 0 0 1777 Conceal Rapier 21602 Deeppocket Rapier
21607 Imbued Deeppocket Traveling Staff 0 0 1782 Unconceal Rapier 21607 Imbued Deeppocket Traveling Staff
59715 Orb of Transmutation 0 0 4350 Transmute Hunter's Dagger 59740 Purified Crystal

These are all GM items or out of era items we won't see. So they won't need to be included in any changes made.

I'm not seeing TOO many spells there.

Enduring Breath is like half of them
Levitate
Shieldskin/Steelskin/Rune III/Rune IV
12 Fire Pet summon
34 Necro pet summon
49 Necro pet summon
Conjure Corpse
Alter Sky Plane

Looks like 11 spells of which 3 are already done (EB, Lev, Steelskin).

If code devs have an idea around this that would be great, if not I don't think the spell file is so loaded it couldn't handle an additional 8 spells.

[nilbog]

I don't think the spell file is so loaded it couldn't handle an additional 8 spells.

It's more a matter of principle. This obviously wasn't how it was done on live, or each of these would have duplicates in the spell data.


Fixed, pending update

Crypt Master's Conjuring Stone was not included -> http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6813#m104913268460797

[heartbrand]

so no recharging on Red non classic fix to non existent issue but regeants being removed on blue clickies? am I understanding this correctly?

[Daldaen]

It's more a matter of principle. This obviously wasn't how it was done on live, or each of these would have duplicates in the spell data.


Fixed, pending update

Crypt Master's Conjuring Stone was not included -> http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6813#m104913268460797

Nilbog, I believe you should include the Conjuring Stone also. The link you provided is a 2003 quote. On the same page, October 2001 (right after Chardok revamp and this started dropping):

You don't need to coffin. I just used one on my best friend when he fell off the boat and drown in the middle of nowhere without the corpse loc.

Good Luck, and Safe Hunting!
I think within our timeline (October-December 2001) it is unlikely they changed this to require a reagent.

Good fix for the rest though!

@Heartbrand your server plays custom99. You all wanted modifications to remove PvP imbalances, your item recharging happened to get whacked in the process. Feel free to roll on blue if you want more classic EQ mechanics.

[Colgate]

duck casting

majority of raiders who transfer over from blue say that red raiding feels much more classic than on it does on blue due to the fact that rechargeable clickies aren't heavily abused

[Man0warr]

duck casting

majority of raiders who transfer over from blue say that red raiding feels much more classic than on it does on blue due to the fact that rechargeable clickies aren't heavily abused

Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. There were people in 2001 that abused recharging clickies - but it wasn't widespread knowledge.

If it was, every guild would use it just like they do here.

[nilbog]

so no recharging on Red non classic fix to non existent issue but regeants being removed on blue clickies? am I understanding this correctly?

This has nothing to do with the thread.

This will affect both servers: when you use a Bladestopper, you won't require a Peridot for the click. When you use a Dragon Tooth Choker, you won't require a Cat's Eye Agate for the click. etc.

[Daldaen]

This has nothing to do with the thread.

This will affect both servers: when you use a Bladestopper, you won't require a Peridot for the click. When you use a Dragon Tooth Choker, you won't require a Cat's Eye Agate for the click. etc.

See my last post regarding the Crypt Master's Conjuring Stone.

The link you provided was a 2003 quote. At the bottom of the page is a 2001 quote suggesting it doesn't require.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2031211&postcount=30

I think that's good enough to keep that particular item in the bunch you listed for this fix. IMO atleast.

[nilbog]

Nilbog, I believe you should include the Conjuring Stone also. The link you provided is a 2003 quote. On the same page, October 2001 (right after Chardok revamp and this started dropping):


Fixed, pending update

[Nirgon]

Awesome fix quit hassling Nilbro

[Daldaen]

Excellent. Looking very much forward to the next patch!