An open letter to GM staff regarding MQs

[ppdanny]

First of all, I realize that this thread will be border RnF. Just wanted to throw that out there ahead of time.

As everyone knows, staff no longer support multi-questing fails. As in, if you mess up - its your loss.

Staff do not support any form of scamming, and if caught actively scamming they will ban you. Sirken has however said on stream that if you are stupid enough to fall for a scam where you are trading someone an item because they "have something on their alt" and youre giving some level 1 character thousands of plat..etc. then its your own stupidity (I agree for the record.)

However, issues come into this with Multi-Questing. If you are selling a MQ of an item to someone, undoubtedly someone has to cough up first. Either the person MQing the item, or the person with the cash. What if you trade someone the cash and they don't have the full MQ and just do enough to mess up the MQ (thereby where staff wont support MQ fails) the person is out their money. Technically they have scammed you, but you really have no way of knowing.

This could go the other way around too (something that happened in my case). I had an agreed upon price with someone from a reputable raiding guild. I MQd the person the full cleric epic and then stopped hearing from them on any of their characters even when they were on-line. Thankfully, this is considered a form of scamming right now, but the most it did was get that person banned. The GMs won't go into that persons accounts and give me the payment, nor will they restore the items lost.

I guess if I were want to quit and wanna screw someone in the process I know how and there isn't really anything the person can do other than possibly be weary, but in the even of something that sounds fair - they would be none the wiser; just saying.

So the above sums up the negatives around scamming and MQing, and yes I've told people how they can even get away with it. However, if an epic piece drops on a raid and is MQable, the guild can have someone loot the piece and in future help one of their members in getting their epic without having get said piece again. This is very great functionality of MQs (helping people out).

However on this server, the majority of MQs are based on greed. People incessantly farming stuff like jboots mq, rogue epic, cleric epic, monk epic, shaman epic, chardok monk pipe, KC monk pipe.. etc. for the purpose of making money. I could also make honorable mentions of corpsing items, however that is not quite relevant to the rest of this post, but I am adding it anyways.

So my plight is this, and I am away I am guilty of the following as well. I am asking the following 2 considerations from GMs.

1. Prohibit the transaction of any items via MQ for the purpose of profit. It is not true the spirit of classic, and should be a bannable offense. If you and a buddy wanna each do a jboot farm for each others alts, thats one thing - but to camp jboots to make 6-7k should be prohibited, and if caught you should lose the item and get a warning. Further offenses should result in suspensions, leading up to banning. Theres a reason these items were NO DROP to begin with - lets stick to that reasoning otherwise they might as well not be.

2. Prohibit the corpsing of items for the purpose of greed. If you're camping a FBSS and get one, you leave the camp. You don't corpse the item and keep holding the camp. You give the camp up to the next person in line who was waiting for it. If after that person leaves and you were next in line and you had a chance to transfer or sell the FBSS - that still gives other people reasonable time to get into the camp without some family sharing 1 character and camping King Tranix for weeks on end.

I have not specifically shamed anyone in this post, that is not the purpose of this - or it truly would belong in RnF. I understand not everyone will agree with me and I ask that if you don't agree that you do so respectfully and with reasoning. I am open to the idea of this being a debate, so long as it is done professionally and appropriately without the need of introducing RnF elements such as trolling. I value anyone else's input on the matter, whether they agree with me or not.

[Cecily]

Thank you for your opinion. Wipe it clean.

[mr_jon3s]

1. I agree MQs have gotten out of hand for profit and actually screws over people that is there first character on the server and wants to do a quest.

2. This has already been addressed.

[Jarac]

You have a good point about the MQ scam thing.

However, you can't stop corpse-ing of lore items. What if I want to kill myself and take an EXP loss and corpse an item? What if I JUST got to camp and something drops, if anything I'm going to want to stay at the camp and try for another, not be forced to leave because of a non-classic change because OP wants more camps. Everyone has the same shot getting camps as everyone else (unless guilds passing off to only guildies which is lame as fuck but happens) getting the camps and people can stay @ them as long as they like. Thats EverQuest man. I wear a Fungi, so if I want to go camp king with a group, I just can't corpse my current fungi if I win the one that just dropped? Just because its an item I'm wearing, everyone else is their for greed. Do I show up without it on? No. Its my main item, but no one else is here for need. You see what I'm getting at? Corpsing should not be changed, there's too many issues that would come up.

[Connecticut]

MQing is classic, your suggestion is not.

Case closed.

[Lojik]

You have a good point about the MQ scam thing.

However, you can't stop corpse-ing of lore items. What if I want to kill myself and take an EXP loss and corpse an item? What if I JUST got to camp and something drops, if anything I'm going to want to stay at the camp and try for another, not be forced to leave because of a non-classic change because OP wants more camps. Everyone has the same shot getting camps as everyone else (unless guilds passing off to only guildies which is lame as fuck but happens) getting the camps and people can stay @ them as long as they like. Thats EverQuest man. I wear a Fungi, so if I want to go camp king with a group, I just can't corpse my current fungi if I win the one that just dropped? Just because its an item I'm wearing, everyone else is their for greed. Do I show up without it on? No. Its my main item, but no one else is here for need. You see what I'm getting at? Corpsing should not be changed, there's too many issues that would come up.

They had at one point ruled that once you got your item you had to leave the camp if someone is waiting, not sure if that's still the rule. Technically if you corpse an item you leave the zone so forfeit the camp (at least if you're solo and someone is waiting.) This was in response to someone holding tranix camp for a month straight.

[Champion_Standing]

But hey if they disabled epic MQs people might actually have to do the quests instead of EZ moding it by tunnel ratting or exploiting to get a fungi.

[Swish]

MQing is classic, your suggestion is not.

Case closed.

Around the time of promoting Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen... I think SamwiseRed (or someone who has been around a long time) actually asked Brad McQuad if getting rogue/cleric/shaman/etc epics at level 1 was intended by the original EQ developers.

The answer? No.


Hard to stop it now of course, but it is sad to see cleric epics on people leveling in Mistmoore.

Quest your own epics, get that sense of achievement.

[PVP Cleric]

PM me if you want me to let you know a game you can play where you get to be the one hero the world needs every time you log in without any other pesky players obstructing you with their "greed."

[Cecily]

But hey if they disabled epic MQs people might actually have to do the quests instead of EZ moding it by tunnel ratting or exploiting to get a fungi.

50+ for epic turn ins or item eaten needs to happen, after I run a few rogue MQs on red at least.

[Champion_Standing]

Around the time of promoting Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen... I think SamwiseRed (or someone who has been around a long time) actually asked Brad McQuad if getting rogue/cleric/shaman/etc epics at level 1 was intended by the original EQ developers.

The answer? No.


Hard to stop it now of course, but it is sad to see cleric epics on people leveling in Mistmoore.

Quest your own epics, get that sense of achievement.

Yeah i remember that.

The forced raid rotation system isn't classic either, but it was done because they determined that the raid scene was unacceptable and not in the spirit of what they were trying to accomplish here. I think you could pretty easily argue that the current epic MQ market is certainty not in the spirit of classic EQ nor of what they are trying to accomplish here either. It isn't quite as cut and dry however, because as OP stated there are some occasions where MQs actually benefit the non-basement dwelling crowd. But i think that those instances are far and few between.

I think the only legit argument for it is that it may allow players that aren't part of a large guild or any guild at all who don't have much play time to spend a few hours a day tunnel questing to eventually get an epic. But seriously, we need LESS reasons for people to tunnel quest...not more.

[DeadlyReza]

Ok here is a scenario that is against this.

I have 4 level 60 characters. I have been playing since p99 server opened. I have already been through so many epic runs...

I also have more cash than I know what to do with

Should my precious hard work be put aside because someone is complaining that I have more pixels than them?

MQing is classic, it's not like you can get an epic for 10k, I know rogues are 30k but you would be looking at 70k for a cleric and god knows what else for the rest... I think it would be cool to limit level for epic turn ins though, that's a sweet idea

[Laugher]

Had the same thing happen to a friend here a couple years ago. Quest is best really, and besides its the official way of The Vision™

[Bboboo]

As if we needed an original EQ dev to weigh in on epiced level ones.

I like MQing in the way it goes to show how broken and new everything was at the time and how MQing is now should really not be that suprising. Telling people they should get thier epic 'the right way' and looking down on people that sell MQs is just silly.

[Clark]

Thank you for your opinion. Wipe it clean.

[Duncon]

Level 1 characters running around with epics might be classic mechanics. It doesn’t feel classic. I am sure it happened, but I never saw it. Here it is so common I am surprized when I see a rogue leveling up without an epic and cleric epics at low levels are common place.

End the MQs!

[ppdanny]

You have a good point about the MQ scam thing.

However, you can't stop corpse-ing of lore items. What if I want to kill myself and take an EXP loss and corpse an item? What if I JUST got to camp and something drops, if anything I'm going to want to stay at the camp and try for another, not be forced to leave because of a non-classic change because OP wants more camps. Everyone has the same shot getting camps as everyone else (unless guilds passing off to only guildies which is lame as fuck but happens) getting the camps and people can stay @ them as long as they like. Thats EverQuest man. I wear a Fungi, so if I want to go camp king with a group, I just can't corpse my current fungi if I win the one that just dropped? Just because its an item I'm wearing, everyone else is their for greed. Do I show up without it on? No. Its my main item, but no one else is here for need. You see what I'm getting at? Corpsing should not be changed, there's too many issues that would come up.

In this instance I agree with being able to corpse the item once, since you already had it. I know of someone who handed off a fungi to a friend and still stayed at the camp until he got a second. This is the type of greed that needs to be shamed imo.

[kremlar]

No real opinion on the two requests, there is just something that confused me about the preamble: Do people really not use trusted third parties on this server?

Buyer hands the money to some known neutral party. Buyer & seller go off to perform whatever service was on offer. Neutral party takes their cut and gives the rest to the seller.

Protects both sides from shenanagins and doesn't require anything from GMs.

[Swish]

No real opinion on the two requests, there is just something that confused me about the preamble: Do people really not use trusted third parties on this server?

Buyer hands the money to some known neutral party. Buyer & seller go off to perform whatever service was on offer. Neutral party takes their cut and gives the rest to the seller.

Protects both sides from shenanagins and doesn't require anything from GMs.

Hagglebaron used to run an escrow type service. I used it when I sold my first account here. Since the account selling was banned its had less of a reason to be around.

The problem these days, as the neutral third party there's every chance you're handling dirty plat and are going to catch a suspension for it.

[falkun]

Hard to stop it now of course, but it is sad to see cleric epics on people leveling in Mistmoore.

Quest your own epics, get that sense of achievement.
To be fair, some people will quest their own epic, they just do it on L60_main_01 and then MQ it to L1_cleric_alt_05. I would think they have still earned the sense of achievement? I cannot say the same for those who purchase their epic.

[Morlaeth]

OP, name and shame the person from the reputable raiding guild.

[ppdanny]

OP, name and shame the person from the reputable raiding guild.

This isnt RnF thanks

[jpetrick]

I really hate all the whining that people do over stupid shit like this. The only thing you should be allowed to complain about is 16 hours of fucking variance. Everything else is off limits.

[B4EQWASCOOL]

Thank you for your opinion. Wipe it clean.

[Duncon]

I really hate all the whining that people do over stupid shit like this. The only thing you should be allowed to complain about is 16 hours of fucking variance. Everything else is off limits.

Thank you for sharing. Please tell us more about your likes and dislikes. We are all dying to hear about them.

[Morlaeth]

This isnt RnF thanks

Though by your own admission you know you were flirting with the RNF line. The staff have seen these types of requests a ton in the past. I don't disagree with your stance, either.

The community might be more realistically served, since the staff probably won't change their stance on this, by knowing who the person who cheated you is.

[tristantio]

To be fair, some people will quest their own epic, they just do it on L60_main_01 and then MQ it to L1_cleric_alt_05. I would think they have still earned the sense of achievement? I cannot say the same for those who purchase their epic.

Why is earning PP less reputable than doing a quest?

Often times, it is more time consuming (hours to plat ratio) but less social (you don't need to work with a guild/friends to get the parts done).

[Jimjam]

To be fair, some people will quest their own epic, they just do it on L60_main_01 and then MQ it to L1_cleric_alt_05. I would think they have still earned the sense of achievement? I cannot say the same for those who purchase their epic.

As someone who generally doesn't bother with ECmart as I feel it takes away a lot of the game...

I don't see how buying an MQ is so different to buying many other rare/sought after items... I assume part of the sense of accomplishment for these people (if they care about such a thing at all) is saving up vast sums of plat for these items?

[Swish]

Why is earning PP less reputable than doing a quest?

I imagine there's less camp lawyering/maneuvering in epic quest hand-ins.

[Cecily]

I don't see how buying an MQ is so different to buying many other rare/sought after items... I assume part of the sense of accomplishment for these people (if they care about such a thing at all) is saving up vast sums of plat for these items?

Or vice versa, accumulating vast sums of plat from selling these items. Thanks to no AAs, there's not much else to do in the end game besides raiding, farming, making money, and gearing up alts. Everquest, believe it or not, does not have very much content and your options of entertainment consist of A) kill it, B) kill it with a bunch of people, or C) you cast your fishing line.

[thufir]

Or vice versa, accumulating vast sums of plat from selling these items. Thanks to no AAs, there's not much else to do in the end game besides raiding, farming, making money, and gearing up alts. Everquest, believe it or not, does not have very much content and your options of entertainment consist of A) kill it, B) kill it with a bunch of people, or C) you cast your fishing line.
Doesn't this just mean "go on to another game"? I never understood why so many people hung around at the finish line trying to make this interesting for themselves, thinking of subgames they can play to pass the time.

[Cecily]

There's a reason we're playing this game still. There hasn't been a better option in the past 15 years.

[jpetrick]

Thank you for sharing. Please tell us more about your likes and dislikes. We are all dying to hear about them.

You seem like the type of person who complains about bards kiting.

[thufir]

There's a reason we're playing this game still. There hasn't been a better option in the past 15 years.
That's more than a little sad. I'm sorry dude.

I know, I'm playing too. But not being at cap, I don't have these problems. There's still plenty for me to see and do. Taking my time about it, obviously.

[thufir]

You're welcome, I guess? I wasn't meaning to judge, I've just found lots of games in the last 15 years that I have played and enjoyed, and I think many of them have been better than EQ; they've just come and gone. I'm sorry you haven't found any.

And not necessarily hit cap, quit, and move on, but at the point where you are like, "I have explored all the content over and over and am trying to find ways to make playing this game interesting," I don't know why you stay. In your case, apparently this is because you don't like any other games made in the past 15 years, and that is, to me, sad. So sorry if you feel judged. Your life is your life, do with it what you will.

[Duncon]

You seem like the type of person who complains about bards kiting.

You seem like the kind of guy who really hates all the whining that people do over stupid shit like this and thinks the only thing they should be allowed to complain about is 16 hours of fucking variance.

[Hijiri]

Love the derp crowd who think this epic mq stuff is classic. It wasn't even remotely as common as it is on this emu server before it was nerfed.

[DeadlyReza]

Or vice versa, accumulating vast sums of plat from selling these items. Thanks to no AAs, there's not much else to do in the end game besides raiding, farming, making money, and gearing up alts. Everquest, believe it or not, does not have very much content and your options of entertainment consist of A) kill it, B) kill it with a bunch of people, or C) you cast your fishing line.

You forgot...

E) Alchemy (Shaman Only)
F) Baking
G) Blacksmithing
F )Brewing
G) Fletching
H) Jewelcrafting
Poison Making (Rogue Only)
I) Pottery
J) Research (Magician, Necromancer, Enchanter, Wizard Only)
K) Tailoring
L) Tinkering (Gnome Only

All good clean fun!

[Samoht]

^ What the hell kind of alphabet is that?

[Cecily]

11 variations of the same bad mini-game. You do it because it sucks, knowing that a tiny fraction of people have the drive to deal with that much suck. 228 tailor taking orders in Velious, lol.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

If these transactions are problematic, simply require a third party to be a disinterested party in case of any beefs, and who also would be willing to vouch for the buyer/seller, ie, willing to take a ban and/or reimbursement if scammery is afoot.

So each party may require a "second," as in dueling. The second would have to be someone willing to put their own ass/bank on the /log for the transacting party.

Any reputable trader and mq'er should have zero difficulty obtaining such a second, and I am sure by the time an account is thinking of buying a mq, they should have someone trustworthy and accountable too.

This would allow for very easy csr, since the second is agreeing to be the "account of record" as it were, and so has already agreed up front to bear any penalties should something go awry.

Naturally, the second, being in such a clearly delicate position, should get a modest fee for this service rendered, a percentage of the total transaction, say, 20% per transaction total, from each party. Vouchin' ain't easy.

Solved
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4aMnEk36XSgnE6njQUNKE05D8WIofJ yeN4zScgepGzQw11V9Z

[Utmost]

Quest your own epics, get that sense of achievement.

Currently questing Innoruk's Curse, achievement levels rising daily.

[Ravager]

There's a reason we're playing this game still. There hasn't been a better option in the past 15 years.

The BBS door game Legend of The Red Dragon is far better and has been around longer. telnet://lord.nuklear.org

[Chou]

Currently questing Innoruk's Curse, achievement levels rising daily.

Off topic sorry, but you sir have an awesome profile pic :) I loved those games.

[Amyas]

I see nothing wrong with epic MQing if you want to do the quest you are still welcome to do it.

[mystang89]

I completely agree with the OP. Just wanted to put it out there for the staff to see.

[Swish]

I see nothing wrong with epic MQing if you want to do the quest you are still welcome to do it.

It's fine until you're trying to get a part of your rogue epic done and there's tunnel fat cats trying to cash in ahead of you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO7XDgo5JBo

[Champion_Standing]

There's a reason we're playing this game still. There hasn't been a better option in the past 15 years.

In the past 15 years hundreds if not thousands of worthwhile games have been released.

Modern MMOs can actually be entertaining too FYI, remember kids it's about the community. Find some cool pals and you'll have fun even if the game doesn't make you take a weeks vacation to camp a few pieces of loot. But if you really must suffer a terrible grind, check out some Korean MMOs.

But lets be serious tho, if after 15 years you can't find some other game to play you can always consider the outdoors, or other hobbies to occupy your time.