Will 1999 ever happen again?

[Morningbreath]

With even WoW making the news for losing subs hand over fist, does anybody else think a tougher MMO could be on the horizon?

Even though "sandbox" has become the latest trend I wonder if we're not too far away from a more challenging PVE MMO. P99's population has been gradually ticking upward since I started playing in 2013...I don't know about other people but I keep coming back for the challenge and rewarding nature of the game.

[fan D]

yea game is so hard im literally BiS every piece

[iruinedyourday]

I think the next mmo will be something like star citizen, once vr is more 'normal'..

When I tried to play wow, after being addicted to EQ.. I had this feeling that the normal person/gamer has room in their life to play just ONE mmo.. once you played your first and last mmo it's very hard or impossible to get into another one or at least convince you to waste that much time again I should say.

Like for example, if you date a crazy stripper. Once you finally get her out of your life, it's doubtful you will date another crazy stripper again.

buuut.. I've learned given enough time... you might be like, hey... this crazy stripper ain't so bad, compared to the others I guess.

So maybe there is room life for 2-3 MMO's

I think next big MMO will be more like DayZ.. more simulation/fps/VR/modern or sci fi..

or at the very last a combination of an MMO/Moba.. hang out with pals, in a virtual world or fight in matches, do what you feel!

but who knows! I dont know.. thats just a hunch.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Always a good post topic, imo.

My take is, the first years of MMO's were a once in a lifetime thing. It was new, there was little competition, the internet itself was still new, computer games were more complicated than consoles, people still used computers (most my friends rarely use a computer: they use their pads or phones for most of their online living) as their only online source, and people's attention spans were not divided into a thousand things.

What you are asking, I think, will there ever be a game that requires time, hours at a spell, playing a challenging game with others, and not just for a few weeks before a new game catches your attention, but for months and in fact a year+?

No, that will not happen. Too much has changed with the internet, people, the ways people use the games and devices, etc.

I would argue that is why p99 works. Let's face it, it is a one-off server, and it attracted everyone missing the way we used to do stuff with these things.

I see absolutely no chance of any subscription based, persistence RPG online world in the future. No one is gonna pay, not enough to make any company want to actually invest the kind of capital required. That is why all "persistent" worlds are riddled with PTP loopholes.

It takes tremendous talent and work and money to create a balanced persistent online world that is also policed for hacking. Where is the market? E-gaming deals with session games, where you play these little matches. But a persistent, more-or-less non-linear and open gameworld like eq or even eq2?

No market that will ever command the necessary talent/time/money required to build it.

TL;DR We are stuck with one-offs forever now. Brad McQuaid can enjoy seeing his dream fail, for, it will.

[Tasslehofp99]

yea game is so hard im literally BiS every piece

red don't count b that's a dead box

[Daywolf]

Even though "sandbox" has become the latest trend I wonder if we're not too far away from a more challenging PVE MMO.
Nope, I lost all hope years ago. Last mmo I gave a try was GW2, which started out well but took a nose dive months after. As long as it's all instanced f2p, there will never be another really good mmo.

Nothing wrong with the sandbox, other than it's hard to develop. UO was a sandbox, I started in 97 with that. Most of the games I play today are still sandbox.

[ArumTP]

Guildwars 2 is the direction that mmo's are going.

[JackFlash]

red don't count b that's a dead box

Long line of neckbeards=harder or something? lol...

[mr_jon3s]

The next MMO that will really hook people will be something that uses VR. Till we finally get full body immersion capsules that let you feel some of your characters sensations.

[SamwiseRed]

No it will never be 1999 again.

[Morningbreath]

Always a good post topic, imo.

My take is, the first years of MMO's were a once in a lifetime thing. It was new, there was little competition, the internet itself was still new, computer games were more complicated than consoles, people still used computers (most my friends rarely use a computer: they use their pads or phones for most of their online living) as their only online source, and people's attention spans were not divided into a thousand things.

What you are asking, I think, will there ever be a game that requires time, hours at a spell, playing a challenging game with others, and not just for a few weeks before a new game catches your attention, but for months and in fact a year+?

No, that will not happen. Too much has changed with the internet, people, the ways people use the games and devices, etc.

I would argue that is why p99 works. Let's face it, it is a one-off server, and it attracted everyone missing the way we used to do stuff with these things.

I see absolutely no chance of any subscription based, persistence RPG online world in the future. No one is gonna pay, not enough to make any company want to actually invest the kind of capital required. That is why all "persistent" worlds are riddled with PTP loopholes.

It takes tremendous talent and work and money to create a balanced persistent online world that is also policed for hacking. Where is the market? E-gaming deals with session games, where you play these little matches. But a persistent, more-or-less non-linear and open gameworld like eq or even eq2?

No market that will ever command the necessary talent/time/money required to build it.

TL;DR We are stuck with one-offs forever now. Brad McQuaid can enjoy seeing his dream fail, for, it will.

One of the bestselling games on the PS4 last year was Bloodborne. It's not an easy "give you everything" type of game. It falls into a different genre from MMOs but it's proof that a difficult game can be successful *IF* it has compelling gameplay and content.

In some ways I agree that Verant was lucky to get Everquest out the door when they did--I signed up for beta because it was one of the few 3D-accelerated games on the horizon--but I also think the co op group gameplay was revolutionary. Alot of games represent a technical achievement for their time but don't retain any kind of following.

[Daywolf]

The next MMO that will really hook people will be something that uses VR.You mean... Second life? Oh you said "next", not previous or current.

I'm holding out for AR rather than VR. AR = Augmented Reality. Something like Ingress but using AR glasses/headset.
AR headset = transparent light-weight glasses, maybe plugged into a smart phone. VR Headset = Darth Vader helmet tethered to a toaster oven.

[Tann]

does anybody else think a tougher MMO could be on the horizon?

No.

too big of a risk for a game developer, it's just going to get "more accessible" (easier) and flashier. sub fees still exist in some games but that will completely go away and we'll get much more invasive cash shops.

GW2 and the like rim the edges with their cosmetics, future games will go at least wrist deep.

[Pokesan]

No it will never be 1999 again.

well then let's get to work on the backwards time machine

[Daywolf]

GW2 and the like rim the edges with their cosmetics, future games will go at least wrist deep.On the surface, and so they can claim no p2w. But what is actually happening there is players buy cosmetics to sell to other players, then buy the best gear that takes forever to get the normal way. Full on impulse P2W with capital letters. This they said they weren't going to do, so we paid the hefty box fee. But they did it :p

Don't even get me started on the gambling scheme there with the black lion chests. The big whales spend $1000's in that game, seriously, have met many.

This is all games do now, their whole development plan revolves around getting big money from a small amount of people. If an idea that makes the game more fun interferes with another plan which targets their big ass cash cows, well out goes the fun. So no, it's over, it's what they are all doing.

[Lune]

Don't fall into the common trap of believing challenge is what is missing from things like WoW and gives EQ its soul. WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way. PvP is necessarily more challenging than anything on Blue because your opponent has the capacity to be smarter than you. WoW's raiding is far more complicated from a tactical standpoint.

What EQ has is tedium, and delayed gratification. It takes a long time to achieve something, and your achievements generally feel good. Also, the sense of community that comes from the absolute need to rely on other people (to travel, to barter items, to level (for most classes)). The destruction of WoW's community that occurred during Wrath is what really, more than any other single thing, destroyed WoW for millions. You were no longer in a cohort with your fellow players, had any reason to interact with or rely on them, etc.

Every MMO since has had the same problem. The extreme on-the-rails nature of their content, soloability, and convenience has resulted in an experience where social bonds seldom formed organically the way they do on P99, and meaningful interaction is really what ultimately fuels enjoyment of an MMO for many people.

[Daywolf]

WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way. It was? Weird, because the four months I played, I couldn't stop feeling I was a goat endlessly chasing carrots. It was the first mmo that I literally fell to sleep at while playing, and I think I got another gold star thingy while doing it. I remember it as about the dumbest game (well not as bad as AC2), little to no thought or planning required. Just hop in, follow the arrows, nibble on a carrot, get a reward/achievement, then log. I could flex my brain in games like EQ, UO, EVE, SWG, AO. But in WoW, I just flat-lined.

[Lune]

It was? Weird, because the four months I played, I couldn't stop feeling I was a goat endlessly chasing carrots. It was the first mmo that I literally fell to sleep at while playing, and I think I got another gold star thingy while doing it. I remember it as about the dumbest game (well not as bad as AC2), little to no thought or planning required. Just hop in, follow the arrows, nibble on a carrot, get a reward/achievement, then log. I could flex my brain in games like EQ, UO, EVE, SWG, AO. But in WoW, I just flat-lined.

You clearly didn't read or understand my post, but:

Like I said in my post, WoW has PvP, which is as difficult as your opponent's skill and intelligence (sometimes greater than your own). Did you clear the hardest heroic content? EQ raid content doesn't even come close to being as challenging. Tedium is different than challenge. Playing an enchanter or bard really well, splitting with a monk, isn't as difficult as playing arenas at even a medium level.

Some of the class rotations were also far more complicated and involved than your typical EQ 1-button warm-body buttonmashing.

Dying and going on a corpse run is tedious. There's nothing hard about having to run really far to get your body. It's just a punishment that adds a sense of risk and excitement to the game (And also reliance on other people). It was this tedium that was missing from WoW, not challenge.

[Baler]

@OP with these minecraft pvp kids becoming our future. We should save our humanity now and just nuke the planet.

[barrettdc1]

well then let's get to work on the backwards time machine

Been done.

http://i.imgur.com/BlfHrDh.jpg

[Dacien]

Don't fall into the common trap of believing challenge is what is missing from things like WoW and gives EQ its soul. WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way. PvP is necessarily more challenging than anything on Blue because your opponent has the capacity to be smarter than you. WoW's raiding is far more complicated from a tactical standpoint.

What EQ has is tedium, and delayed gratification. It takes a long time to achieve something, and your achievements generally feel good. Also, the sense of community that comes from the absolute need to rely on other people (to travel, to barter items, to level (for most classes)). The destruction of WoW's community that occurred during Wrath is what really, more than any other single thing, destroyed WoW for millions. You were no longer in a cohort with your fellow players, had any reason to interact with or rely on them, etc.

Every MMO since has had the same problem. The extreme on-the-rails nature of their content, soloability, and convenience has resulted in an experience where social bonds seldom formed organically the way they do on P99, and meaningful interaction is really what ultimately fuels enjoyment of an MMO for many people.

Instead of "challenge", I think of it as consequence and immersion. The world in P99 is more alive and wondrous because death means so much. And every locale you visit usually meant a long trek. A long trek in which you again get to take in the world.

Classic EQ and P99 have immersion nailed, and it's because of the gravity of death and the realism of slow migration.

Of course, none of this applies when you're max level in a raiding guild.

[Kevynne]

Of course, none of this applies when you're max level in a raiding guild.

or can sow
or port
or bound at the firepots
or incapable of typing /who druid 29 60 /who wizard 29 60

[AzzarTheGod]

With even WoW making the news for losing subs hand over fist

lol :rolleyes: they say this every single year since 2004.

Got anything factual this time?

[Daywolf]

lol :rolleyes: they say this every single year since 2004.

Got anything factual this time?
I hnow. While Blizzard made even more money hand over fist. Yeah, they lost a ton of subs due to that whole ragequit protest crap that went on over taking away their flying ponies or whatever. But then immediately bought other Blizzard games to replace it giving Blizzard another record year. WoW, one of the dumbest games I've played, seriously. And the community... oh man... this isn't surprising how Blizzard managed to engineer a situation to actually get even more money out of it's fan base, while they STILL think they showed them Blizzard devs not to mess with em.

[Ivory]

Learn to make video games....work really hard....build a reputation for being awesome and start a company....get investments and work even harder....then make it yourself.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Learn to make video games....work really hard....build a reputation for being awesome and start a company....get investments and work even harder....then make it yourself.

Just dont swipe prescription drugs out of your employee's desks to fuel your addiction.

http://i.imgur.com/oyVYwrj.jpg

[joppykid]

The next MMO that will really hook people will be something that uses VR. Till we finally get full body immersion capsules that let you feel some of your characters sensations.

Just like this movie?

[Fifield]

I have been so dissapointed with almost every new mmo to come out in the last 5 years. I have little hope for any new game but heres one i've been following for awhile.

http://camelotunchained.com/v3/

PVP based, supposed to be old school. Time will tell how good it is. Its called Camelot Unchained btw. Like DAOC with 3 factions, all RVR, no PVE i think?

[Man0warr]

What classic EQ really has over WoW and other modern MMOs is community.

Thanks to no cross-server auto party builders, instancing, etc. You can play WoW these days and never leave the city - just queue for everything - other people on your server don't matter.

[Feanol]

I was reading through this thread and trying to pinpoint the real reasons why modern games have such a hard time bottling the lightning that was Everquest and I came to a few conclusions.

First, these other games aren't Everquest and this isn't 1999. We're all just going to have to deal with that as best we can I suppose.


Second put bluntly is fast-travel. Bear with me here.

For me, a lot of modern MMORPGs began to lose their sparkle once game developers decided they were pissing everyone off by making them walk everywhere and introduced instantaneous player transmission.

I find the games I enjoy these days all have a firm limit to how fast and far the player may move in a given time. Adventure is had by walking the roads and paths and meeting other travelers doing the same. These encounters are unscripted and emergent unlike the formulaic "missions" or "raids" or whatever predescribed encounters apply.

Worlds that were designed with massive landscapes and geographical regions became reduced to a genre variation on "open map" and "click". Sure you could go off into the countryside and travel by foot but there was nothing to compel you to do this. For most players this was simply a waste of time when they knew their peers were clicking between locations moving instantly.

Everquest has Druids, Wizards, and a host of items that teleport you to be sure. I would argue that none of these methods are 100% reliable all of the time and that is the key point. We each have to run from place to place and that's what gives the "in-between" zones their life and the world a sense of scope. Without that scale the whole landscape is reduced to "Town A" "Dungeon B" "Tradehouse C".

[radda]

yea game is so hard im literally BiS every piece

...

[Tann]

What classic EQ really has over WoW and other modern MMOs is community.

Thanks to no cross-server auto party builders, instancing, etc. You can play WoW these days and never leave the city - just queue for everything - other people on your server don't matter.

The people I know who still play WoW only do so because of the community. AKA their guild and friends, though it is true if you're a social degenerate its quite easy to raid/dungeon/pvp all sitting by yourself in the bowels of Orgrimmar.

[Dacien]

or can sow
or port
or bound at the firepots
or incapable of typing /who druid 29 60 /who wizard 29 60

SoW just made the world more immersive. Getting a SoW back in the day as a leveling Paladin, that was like, the magic in this game is AWESOME! I can run to where I want to be so much faster! Getting a SoW was amazing!

Porting was for the rich. Leveling characters with no guild ties hoofed it.

Binding was great, once you made it to your destination!

[grimmier]

the last MMO I felt even close to the same level of immersion Post EQ in was Vanguard, before patches broke things and they weren't fixed and then sony shut down the server.

The PVP server had a thriving community raid vs raid battles for content were fun and happened often, before SOE decided to merge all the servers into one. FTP never helped the game as they didn't fix the broken aspects of the game from prior patches.

[Jigawatts]

Well there is this floating out there, time will tell if it ever gets released or not. It looks and sounds like exactly what all of us want, but I will be waiting until post-release to see if that comes to pass.

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/

[bloodmuffin]

Well there is this floating out there, time will tell if it ever gets released or not. It looks and sounds like exactly what all of us want, but I will be waiting until post-release to see if that comes to pass.

https://www.pantheonmmo.com/

Haha, fuck no. That pantheon guy took the money that this server and streamers generated and ran off with 40k of it for "personal expenses" within weeks of generating that profit.

It's a cash grab, nothing more.

[Agecroft]

Guildwars 2 is the direction that mmo's are going.

ewwww

[Daywolf]

ewwww
I don't think GW2 has any real direction. First it wanted to be a b2p, then for the most part it became an f2p (microtransations + really cheap initial cost) and very much p2w, then it went back to trying to be a b2p with it's way belated expansion (I didn't even bother, uninstalled, though I closed beta it early on). hah I actually capped every class there, and every tradeskill (which they ruined later). I only played it because I liked GW1, which wasn't an mmo, but GW2 is just different and sort of lost with what it want's to be. If that's the new direction of games, it's going to be a confusing future for mmo's.

[Man0warr]

The people I know who still play WoW only do so because of the community. AKA their guild and friends, though it is true if you're a social degenerate its quite easy to raid/dungeon/pvp all sitting by yourself in the bowels of Orgrimmar.

Well sure, that's the only reason to play most MMOs - including P99. At least P99 forces those degenerates to interact to level or buy/sell items (or leave the server, which is fine too).

[thufir]

the last MMO I felt even close to the same level of immersion Post EQ in was Vanguard, before patches broke things and they weren't fixed and then sony shut down the server.

The PVP server had a thriving community raid vs raid battles for content were fun and happened often, before SOE decided to merge all the servers into one. FTP never helped the game as they didn't fix the broken aspects of the game from prior patches.

FTP also crippled major aspects of the game, like the actual acquisition of loot. It just wasn't worth playing under that ruleset.

But otherwise I completely agree with you. I wish they'd make a vanguard emu. It was the true successor to EQ and the only MMO that ever came close to duplicating the original experience for me.

[Ivory]

Guild Wars 1 had a pretty good feel (even if you were alone a lot). But the feeling you got of being in a village as you advanced and meeting other people doing the same stuff....pretty good. Also GW1 skill system was AWESOME.

City of Heroes - Pretty fun. More casual, but tons of creative freedom. It wasn't all about the game systems, but more about giving you the ability to really have fun creating a unique hero and theme and playing pretend.

Dungeons and Dragons Online - Super great feeling! Dungeon crawling with more classic D&D rules....sure they were instanced dungeons, but it felt more like a mini adventure (and one that if you failed, it was over).

[Landael]

Pantheon:-----------WARNING SUBTITLE DETECTED! :eek:

[Aesop]

yea game is so hard im literally BiS every piece

You got to put this little nut hanger in context.

He can't see past his own experience of showing up for every raid, hitting autoattack and backstab on every dragon and thinks because his experience is easy that the whole encounter is easy.

There was a whole group of people who worked hard before you waddled over from blue and hung on like a dingleberry from the nuts of Empire. Those people who run the guild day to day, keep people logging in, recruiting, running raids and generally doing all the difficult work while you run your mouth in ooc about how good at pvp you are BiS every slot as a rogue.

Anyways, just had to put you in context Fandango, you are literally Gongshow's trust fund kid.

I think Feanol has a point. The other thing about EQ and we have discussed this over on Tallon Zek Times quite a few times is a good balance of RvR and negative mechanics that encourage team play (exp loss, needing ports, hard dungeons, challenging mechanics) but also balanced with actually rewarding content is what made EQ magical.

Plus we can never discount that EQ was the first real MMO. That counts for a lot.

Now we have p1999 where everyone knows all the secrets, and back then no one knew hardly any of the secrets. People kept that shit to themselves. I remember when someone taught me how to joust as a rogue that shit changed my LIFE.

Plus pumice.

This is on a pvp server mind you. One that wasn't filled with a bunch of childlike sociopaths.

[Jigawatts]

Haha, fuck no. That pantheon guy took the money that this server and streamers generated and ran off with 40k of it for "personal expenses" within weeks of generating that profit.

It's a cash grab, nothing more.

Yeah, hence my stating I will not touch it until after its released, though if the game does eventually get released and is decently reviewed I will likely play it, as its exactly the type of game I'm looking for.

As shitty as McQuaid handled things, there was actually a recent article by the Pantheon people that somewhat impressed me.

http://massivelyop.com/2015/11/24/interview-pantheon-devs-on-funding-unity-and-the-launch-window/

[Danth]

Everquest strikes me as occupying a similar position as the Oldsmobile Curved Dash or Ford Trimotor: It wasn't the first, but it validated a concept. Successors--the Model T Ford, the DC-3, World of Warcraft--later moved a proven concept mainstream. There are railroad men who'd rather operate noisy, bucking steam locomotives than modern, comfortable diesels. There are pilots who'd rather fly wood and fabric biplanes than strong, fast jets. And then there's us--a bunch of gamers who'd rather stick it out in Everquest than join the modern gaming world. That's alright. 1999 doesn't have to happen again. It doesn't need to. I'm content enough with Project1999 while the rest of the gaming world has moves on as it must.

Danth

[douglas1999]

Sigh I wish daybreak would just remake EQ1 verbatim, mechanics-wise, with a fancy modern engine, maybe flesh out the continents a little more with some zones that were on the original cloth map but not in-game, and call it a day. I bet that would be much more successful than whatever insane high-concept terrible pile of shit they end up releasing (if they ever do). Or maybe it'll just be a wow clone.. (probably). :(

[Tann]

Sigh I wish daybreak would just remake EQ1 verbatim, mechanics-wise, with a fancy modern engine, maybe flesh out the continents a little more with some zones that were on the original cloth map but not in-game, and call it a day. I bet that would be much more successful than whatever insane high-concept terrible pile of shit they end up releasing (if they ever do). Or maybe it'll just be a wow clone.. (probably). :(

They'd sell at most 10k "boxes" doing this, there just isn't a market/audience for old school MMOs anymore. Maybe they'd get new folks coming in seeing the shiny gfx, but those folks would leave in under a month.

[GSZ]

1999 happens all the time! I was just there a bit over 16 years ago!

[myriverse]

Won't be another 1999 until someone reinvents the Jesus. And then 1999 years later.

[Pope Hat]

Pantheon, rise of the fallen.

[JurisDictum]

Pantheon, rise of the fallen.

I have hopes for this one myself. Modern MMOs are mostly lameass action RPGs that get boring to grown adults. While Pantheon will likely to be different than EQ in many ways -- at least their talking about reeling back the whole "rush through the dungeon AoE with 4 stangers" style of play.

[sox7d]

yea game is so hard im literally BiS every piece

only took you 17 years

[epicdemic]

You mean... Second life? Oh you said "next", not previous or current.

I'm holding out for AR rather than VR. AR = Augmented Reality. Something like Ingress but using AR glasses/headset.
AR headset = transparent light-weight glasses, maybe plugged into a smart phone. VR Headset = Darth Vader helmet tethered to a toaster oven.

This. I've seen ingress players that Def rival eq in terms of how hardcore they play.

Augmented reality games are onto something huge.

[Rygar]

Don't fall into the common trap of believing challenge is what is missing from things like WoW and gives EQ its soul. WoW is a more "challenging" game than EQ in nearly every way. PvP is necessarily more challenging than anything on Blue because your opponent has the capacity to be smarter than you. WoW's raiding is far more complicated from a tactical standpoint.

What EQ has is tedium, and delayed gratification. It takes a long time to achieve something, and your achievements generally feel good. Also, the sense of community that comes from the absolute need to rely on other people (to travel, to barter items, to level (for most classes)). The destruction of WoW's community that occurred during Wrath is what really, more than any other single thing, destroyed WoW for millions. You were no longer in a cohort with your fellow players, had any reason to interact with or rely on them, etc.

Every MMO since has had the same problem. The extreme on-the-rails nature of their content, soloability, and convenience has resulted in an experience where social bonds seldom formed organically the way they do on P99, and meaningful interaction is really what ultimately fuels enjoyment of an MMO for many people.

QFT! I completely agree with this, in WoW you didn't just have encounters where a CHeal rotation was required in every raid. You had specific roles that individual classes needed to play. The raid encounters were very unique and fun to learn, it did take a certain discipline to achieve success.

I also agree with the delayed gratification, I could get up to level 60 in a month on WoW and just solo to boot. It was very easy to reach the top level. Also not losing exp later in wow was a big mistake that catered to all the babies. Every patch stuff became easier and easier. Reagents weren't needed anymore, cool downs decreased, combat damage wouldn't break crowd control, etc. When new expansions came out in just a day you would get the server wide message 'Server First! <guild xyz> Killed the top boss in the game!'. It was very disheartening.

EQ was tough, people needed to know how to play their character effectively to advance, whereas WoW you could have a snot nosed kid that doesn't know how to use his spells yet is epic geared. I took a lot of pride in the achievement of making it to the top in EQ vs. WoW. Is why I came back to p99.

[Jaleth]

FTP also crippled major aspects of the game, like the actual acquisition of loot. It just wasn't worth playing under that ruleset.

But otherwise I completely agree with you. I wish they'd make a vanguard emu. It was the true successor to EQ and the only MMO that ever came close to duplicating the original experience for me.

http://vgoplayers.com/index.php

Still working on it, but the world is there.

[AzzarTheGod]

http://vgoplayers.com/index.php

Still working on it, but the world is there.

Its not going to be like the WoW emu from my understanding. They can't finish the work. They don't have more than 10% of the data needed.

As they don't have any data to recreate most of the things exactly as they existed. Missing about 85% of the entire data on spells, mobs, and quests.

Unless SOE/Daybreak leaks the source code, VG emu will remain exactly as it is right now. A shell world, with developers making a lot of guesses. Its just a fun little project. It won't be playable VG anytime in the next few years, that's for sure.

They have begged SOE devs by email, no response. An insider sys admin programmer would have to leak it very quietly. Otherwise theres no point pretending VGemu is a real thing.

[heartbrand]

WoW is a harder game than EQ in just about every single way other than "leveling" which isn't meant to be anything other than a way to watch the story and learn your class. All of those server firsts you talk about in WoW are the result of people who beta tested for months and played 16 hours a day doing the same fights sometimes in excess of 300 attempts. There's a lot of things you can say about WoW, but to claim it's raiding, particularly mythic raiding, is "ez" is lol worthy.

[Grivyn]

The only mmo currently being developed that could recapture the 1999 feel for me aside from a fresh P99 would be Crowfall.

[AzzarTheGod]

WoW is a harder game than EQ in just about every single way other than "leveling" which isn't meant to be anything other than a way to watch the story and learn your class. All of those server firsts you talk about in WoW are the result of people who beta tested for months and played 16 hours a day doing the same fights sometimes in excess of 300 attempts. There's a lot of things you can say about WoW, but to claim it's raiding, particularly mythic raiding, is "ez" is lol worthy.

A man after my own heart. Spoken like a gentleman-- get him a drink.

[JurisDictum]

I wish games would be more like old EQ and make the entire game based on Grouping and Raiding. But there is a huge push to make most the game (content-wise) solo. This is partly because WoW has created these monsters.

WoW planned for a pattern like this:

Phase 1) You level solo to 60, grouping here and there optionally (it was actually never worth the time during Vanilla until you got to Sunken Temple or so). This allows you to learn your class, the story, and get hooked.

Phase 2) You group and start being more social and making friends around your playtime. This is the first step of keeping you around long enough to get raids looking appealing

Phase 3) You join a guild and raid. It becomes a kind of social organization that keeps you playing for years.

Over the years though, Blizzard kept giving into people that liked phase 1, and thought the other 2 were stupid because they were gods gift to gaming and didn't need to put up with any sucky person dragging them down.

Maybe their original model worked for building community. No regional instances allowed a community to grow even in the presence of so much instanced content. Grouping was more difficult and -- in fact -- it is routine for wow to nerf group content after the expansion has been out a few months to let the bads do it. Almost no one used "leveling specs" that were separate from their "group spec," so your solo experience mattered a little more. Raids used to take 40 people -- later deemed much too high.

Now any potential for community building is dashed. WoW is a single player game with a public chat (Orgrimmar or its equivalent) where people join little micro-gatherings of people like you would in FPS. You aren't even sharing a world with others, let alone interacting with them.

Edit: My point: Every. Game. Since. WoW. Seems to try to replicate their model. They also replicate the biggest weakness of WoW. They are selling people on a game (solo leveling) that is very different at the endgame (raiding with 25+ people). They basically attract a fanbase that is going to hate their end game and demand it be more like the leveling phase.