INT/WIS Over 200 Should be One Mana Per Point

[-Catherin-]

Sorry if this has been addressed in the past, but it has been nagging at me since I first started playing here and I have never noticed it discussed.

In classic Everquest, when you exceeded 200int or 200wis, you would only recieve ONE point of mana for every point of INT and WIS beyond that. This was not changed to the diminishing returns system that we now have until after Velious.

This was my memory but I doubted it. So I did a little digging:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4668

http://i.imgur.com/aJw062c.jpg

So this means that casters on this server have a lot more mana than they actually should. A level 60 with 255 has 330 more mana when it should only be 55 more mana. Is this a client side issue that cannot be easily fixed?

I also have no idea if the other stats had as extreme as a reduction beyond 200, this is just WIS/INT that I knew for sure.

[Erati]

Here is a classic P99 post from me in 2010 also asking this question with your classic brain way of thinking

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2430&highlight=mana+calculator

yeah whatever is going on the cap for int/wis seems to not be classic or this would be cut and dry, and int/wis past 200 you add is 1 mana, so either we need to get this changed or we need to figure out the actual mechanism of whats going on

i agree though it might be using a cap from a later expansion which makes sense

I cant believe I remembered the title for this search haha what a nerd

[Lojik]

I also remember INT/WIS post 200 giving very minimal returns, but I thought post lvl 50 it was 2 or possibly 3pts per INT/WIS over 200, not 5 or 6 like it is here.

[Ele]

So this means that casters on this server have a lot more mana than they actually should. A level 60 with 255 has 330 more mana when it should only be 55 more mana. Is this a client side issue that cannot be easily fixed?

I also have no idea if the other stats had as extreme as a reduction beyond 200, this is just WIS/INT that I knew for sure.

I like this.

There is no reason on P99 to not gear all the way to 255 wis/int.


Just speculating, but a fix could run into the same client/server issue as mana regen/skill points, the client thinking one value is higher/correct, but the server has the true correct value.

[Ele]

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20011204.html

Luclin release day patch:


Gameplay Changes:

Increased the amount of mana given by high Intelligence and Wisdom scores, as well as that granted by items and spells.

[Treats]

Likely that all stats - str dex agi resists etc - above 200 had something similar to this in their formulas

[Daldaen]

While I don't doubt this... I seem to recall that beyond 200 was mostly eye candy.

Please keep in mind, you weren't able to display your mans value in your UI until July 2004 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20040714.html). So telling your exact mana would be difficult without ShowEQ. So being able to tell your actual mana gains wasn't that easy during classic.

[Daldaen]

September 2000 EQCleric (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1366)


According to the folks over at hackersquest the amount of mana you get per wisdom over is drastically reduced. From all accounts I've seen its around 1 wis = 1.5 mana or there abouts. GZ admitted there was a soft cap at 200 but refused to give any details.

As for myself I've filled 2 ten slot bags full of resist gear and I have another 10 slot filled with various AC and +mana items. In the bank I have an 8 slot bag with 2 resist potions for fire, cold, poison, and disease. For a dragon I try for at least 100 unbuffed resistance from gear before spells, potions, and songs while maintaning 180 wisdom (I usually get Enlightenment).

For dragons like trakanon I shoot for 200 poison, 200 wisdom, +250 in mana items so I can cast 1 annul magic and 3 word of restorations.

Smegal BoneMender - High Priest of Afterlife.

June 2001 EQCleric (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3395)


Thanks Wyn. I knew about the (level*wis)/5 part but not the rest. Now my calculations match with castersrealm.

But they left off a part.

IF your total wisdom is more than 200 then you must do the following...

Take your wisdom and subtract 200. Now, use 200 as your wisdom for calculations as normal but when you add in +mana items you also need to add in the value you obtained by subtracting 200.

I have 211 wis, 210 in +mana and am level 57 so here's how it goes.

Step 1.

If(wis > 200)
211 - 200 = 11

Else do nothing

Step 2

If(wis > 200) wis = 200

(200*57)/5+2*30 + 210 + 11 = 2615 mana

Check my math

For you
(30*150)/5+2*30 +0 mana +0 extra wis= 960

Each point of wis beyond 200 is +1 mana. That is the soft cap.

------------------
Boanerges Thundercry
Erudite Templar of Prexus
Cohort Chalybeius
Cazic Thule Server

October 2001 EQCleric (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4268)

I seem to recall it's 1 mana per wisdom. But higher wisdom seems to help with fizzles. Someone once posted some tests here on that.


Then here is the change in Luclin:

January 2002 EQCleric (http://www.eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4720)

possible get near 255 wis. That is the cap; SOL changed it from 200 to 255. Resists are not that important for normal exping, but when you do start raiding, resists are your best friend

If getting gear slows your leveling down, then don't worry about gear. Level>Gear.

The difference between 200wis and 255 at 60 is 330mana by current numbers. That's "alot" of mana by +mana standards, but it's still not a CH and it's not gonna make a 255 wis cleric significantly better then a 200 wisdom cleric.

Every wisdom above 200 at lvl 60 is worth 6 mana, so don't dumb 30mana for 4wis unless you get better stats out of it ac resists and such.

------------------
Shieze Athenia
60th High Priest of the Rathe
Member of Spirit of Tunare


People speak with high degrees of confidence here. The evidence supports the findings shown in the OP.

[Daldaen]

I just remembered how good this classicquest was.

I'm guessing this may be a client limitation... But if we could get this, man would some of those longer fights become a bit more tense. Losing 1 CH worth of mana on each cleric would be tough.

[Raev]

If the client is written in a vaguely competent way, it should only be necessary to hack the max mana calculation in one place. Removing 250 mana from casters isn't game breaking, but it would definitely reduce the value of all this NTOV gear, as 200 INT/WIS is really easy to hit even with resist gear (rabble rabble with a classic hardcap all of that AC is pretty pointless anyway rabble rabble).

Do we have any good evidence about stamina also being softcapped at 200? Dex I'm pretty sure was not.

[-Catherin-]

bump. this is classic

[Daldaen]

Bump. Praise be to classic mana pools.

[Rygar]

Just some additional evidence for what it's worth:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.games.everquest/8gHxdFJrNko/xNfzOI5ddykJ;context-place=forum/alt.games.everquest

12/17/2001 when new formulas were posted:
<je...@spam.sux.pobox.com> wrote:
Hi, Casters Realm has put up two new mana calculators (wis and int).
Anyone have any idea what the new formulas are? I haven't noticed any real changes in any of my characters' mana pools, so was wondering just what has changed? I know they were proposing that int/wis could go over 200 now with more than minimal benefit (more than one mana per wis/int point over 200) but am not certain they implemented that. Any information and the current formulas would be appreciated.
>
I haven't tested it, but I've heard it's the same as it was (10 per point at
level 50) plus 7 per point above 200 int/wis. I believe the 10 per goes up
to 12 or 13 per at level 60, but not sure what it actually increases to.

seems right i can get almost 2 extra chloroblasts of with 251 mana so 7
points per after 200 seems right

[PabloEdvardo]

Has this been addressed? I've been gearing a wisdom caster and was going to start trading down wis items for +mana since I'm over 200, but maybe I don't need to?

[Pringles]

Doesn't seem possible to get the client to comply with the server without using buggy methods. This is probably more trouble than it's worth. Playing around with titanium and older EQEmu it's a testament to passion that everything works reasonably well. Maybe some dude will pour days of crunching into this but I doubt it.

[Brandonian10]

Has this been addressed? I've been gearing a wisdom caster and was going to start trading down wis items for +mana since I'm over 200, but maybe I don't need to?

Wondering this as well.

I thought people were gearing to prioritize other stats once int/wis surpassed 200 but it sounds like that’s not the case!

[Daldaen]

This almost made it to page 3. It needs to remain on page one because it’s a crucial bug that needs resolving for almost all 50+ Casters to make the correct gearing decisions.

[Dolalin]

Why isn't this fixed yet? Geez.

[Daldaen]

Bump. This is a crucial fix to make caster gearing strategies classic.

[Daldaen]

Bump

[jolanar]

Shocked such a basic classic thing still isn't fixed. And with green around the corner no less.

[Daldaen]

Bump this is an Important outstanding issue that is making people choose gear very unclassically on this server.

[Daldaen]

Bumping this, as green approaches reaching 200+ WIS/INT will be a big goal for casters and priests, but it should be classic to focus on other things after 200 WIS/INT due to receiving only 1 mana for each WIS/INT beyond 200. In order to have classic gearing choices we need this code in game.

[Daldaen]

Bump this mana calculation should exist from Classic to Luclin launch. It’s very important this gets implemented so that players can correctly pick gear options in Classic and Kunark before you just naturally hit the softcap on Wis/Int

[Daldaen]

Bump hopefully this calculation can be made classic prior to Green launch.

[Glasken]

.

[Daldaen]

Bump! Hope this can make it in for Green launch.

[Daldaen]

Bump. People are gearing up. Hopefully this gets resolved before people exploit the extra 250 mana potential available from maxing wisdom on P99 with the current formula.

[Gustoo]

Why are there no staff comments on this issue? Is it an impossible thing to fix?

It would help trivialize some encounters, maybe.

[Jack N]

Stats shown in the client and your actual stats are not necessarily the same thing.

[Daldaen]

Plenty of Green and Teal characters are over 200 WIS/INT at this point and are reaping the benefits of unclassic gear choices and mana calculations.

[zodium]

Plenty of Green and Teal characters are over 200 WIS/INT at this point and are reaping the benefits of unclassic gear choices and mana calculations.

i've been pretending wis/int works correctly for years now

it's fun, Gatmanno has like 218 wis!

[Daldaen]

There are tons of unclassic things happening on Green where nerds are winning fights they shouldn’t be winning because they have access to hundreds of extra mana they shouldn’t have access to until Luclin.

[cd288]

Hasn’t this been a well known issue for years?

[this user was banned]

Not sure how much this helps but here's the javascript from the mana calculator at:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000510052953/http://www.everlore.com/magic/manacalculator.htm

They were not taking into account int > 200 back then. Of course this doesn't mean that the game did the same.

Mana = ((Intelligence/5)+2) * (Level - (MagicLevel - 1))

function Calculate1 () {
var Intelligence = parseInt (document.forms.Form1.IQ.value);
var Wisdom = parseInt (document.forms.Form1.WIS.value);
var Level = parseInt (document.forms.Form1.LEV.value);
var Mana;
var ClassCode;
for (var i=0; i < document.forms.Form1.Class.length; i++) {
if (document.forms.Form1.Class[i].checked) {
break;
}
}
ClassCode = document.forms.Form1.Class[i].value;
var Attribute = ClassCode.charAt(0);
var MagicLevel = ClassCode.charAt(1);

if (MagicLevel == "0") {
alert("With all the intelligence and wisdom in the world, your total mana is still 0. Pick a different class.");
return false;
}
else {
if (Level < MagicLevel) {
alert("You do not have any mana at this level. Choose a higher level.")
return false;
}
}
if (Attribute == "W") {
Mana = ((Wisdom/5)+2) * (Level - (MagicLevel - 1))
alert("Your total mana is " + Mana);
}
if (Attribute == "I") {
Mana = ((Intelligence/5)+2) * (Level - (MagicLevel - 1))
alert("Your total mana is " + Mana);
}
}

[Nirgon]

ya int/wis past 200 barely doing anything was a known thing

[ccs88]

Why is this fix not #1 priority?

[Dolalin]

If I had to guess, maybe there's some client disassembly to be done to handle what the client thinks the Mana count should be, otherwise it would just bounce up and down every tick as the server corrected the client on Mana count.

[zaneosak]

I just went from 200 to 218 WIS with 2 new items and it does jack shit. I believe this fix is in the game or I missed a patch note about it. Isn't that how it's suppose to work until a later expansion?

[drdrakes]

I've met many people (most of them) that think that getting over 200 is pointless and I've mentioned the Velious Client issue and get told I'm probably still wrong. So maybe the best 'fix' they have going is enough people just believing the wrong shit.

[-Catherin-]

Classic Everquest stats matter.

[Baler]

4 people have posted that they believe is proof/evidence
38 people have made replies.

If you believe this is a bug, Find evidence and post it. Saying you think something was some way is not evidence. Almost everything else that's been fixed on p99 it takes evidence. And don't respond with evidence was already posted that's not helpful either.

[Ampmaster]

Is this still an open item?