New ToV Racing Rules

[Man0warr]

So not only do they have to change the rules for your guild they also have to make sure to keep the mobs spawning on the days that best suit you?

Exactly man, that's exactly what I meant. You are great at reading context.

[xexbis0]

Come on Big V. Go late tomorrow. Let's see if those racers balk at going for targets with only 3 hours left in window. Let those stars align.

Side storyline:

- Will Awakened or Aftermath plop racers at big V spawn if dragons are up that casuals can't get to and no FTE message went out?

Stay tuned for Episode 2 of As the Door Opens and Closes and Opens and Closes

[FatMice]

Exactly man, that's exactly what I meant. You are great at reading context.

That's how I read it also.

The only difference is if you actually look at the numbers I think BDA and the other "casual guilds" would be shocked or not shocked (since it was pointed out our DKP, and RA% is public information) but the majority of Aftermath full members raid with 40-50% Raid Attendance. If I were to go deeper and compare the percentages to when BDA and the other "casual guilds" raid we really would be in the same boat. The 3AM - 7AM EST to the 10AM to 3PM EST raid times are normally hovering around the 40s mark with about 5-7 people tracking around these times.

I'd rather play on the side of the 4% of the server that likes to kill everything and push the limits of content when I log on to this server when I am not able to. That is the difference between you an I.

[Kileras]

That's how I read it also.

The only difference is if you actually look at the numbers I think BDA and the other "casual guilds" would be shocked or not shocked (since it was pointed out our DKP, and RA% is public information) but the majority of Aftermath full members raid with 40-50% Raid Attendance. If I were to go deeper and compare the percentages to when BDA and the other "casual guilds" raid we really would be in the same boat. The 3AM - 7AM EST to the 10AM to 3PM EST raid times are normally hovering around the 40s mark with about 5-7 people tracking around these times.

I'd rather play on the side of the 4% of the server that likes to kill everything and push the limits of content when I log on to this server when I am not able to. That is the difference between you an I.

our prime time numbers are near the 40's if we are lucky. All guilds are carried by those willing to "do the work" that A/A and the like have set as the precedent. you can have 100 online and it doesn't really matter if you don't have a core 20 people willing to track/race at all hours. Dispersing the weight is a skill set, and a logistical feat for any guild. The only thing that differentiates the guild tiers at this point and their "quality" as a guild is how hard that core crew are willing to go to secure the mobs for the rest of the raid force to just log in and collect lewt. Almost any of us could kill a majority of north, and if not on the first try would be able to with experience and a learning curve. It goes back to the inherit flaw in the system, we play a different game. We are here for a classic experience with some progression and hopefully seeing some dargunz and giants. Everyone below A&A talk together frequently, share, and try to create a healthy environment. I don't want free pixels, but for the sake of the server those willing to stoop to the lowest levels of RL/EQ balance should not set the precedent.

[Mistle]

I'd rather play on the side of the 4% of the server that likes to kill everything and push the limits of content when I log on to this server when I am not able to. That is the difference between you an I.

No, the real difference is that if casual raiders were given rules that allowed them realistic shots, your guild and the other "A" would fall apart completely within a month, while the casual guilds would keep on keeping on, because they dont define themselves as 'the 4%' like you just did, and as functioning adults are literally aghast that there are really people who do, and what they put up with to be there...

[Thana8088]

our prime time numbers are near the 40's if we are lucky. All guilds are carried by those willing to "do the work" that A/A and the like have set as the precedent. you can have 100 online and it doesn't really matter if you don't have a core 20 people willing to track/race at all hours. Dispersing the weight is a skill set, and a logistical feat for any guild. The only thing that differentiates the guild tiers at this point and their "quality" as a guild is how hard that core crew are willing to go to secure the mobs for the rest of the raid force to just log in and collect lewt. Almost any of us could kill a majority of north, and if not on the first try would be able to with experience and a learning curve. It goes back to the inherit flaw in the system, we play a different game. We are here for a classic experience with some progression and hopefully seeing some dargunz and giants. Everyone below A&A talk together frequently, share, and try to create a healthy environment. I don't want free pixels, but for the sake of the server those willing to stoop to the lowest levels of RL/EQ balance should not set the precedent.


Is this really true?

Wouldn't there still be a rotation if this were accurate?

[Alenon]

It was just as much of a shitshow on live, at least on bristlebane. And if they had the ability to batphone then I'm sure they would have. The difference was continuous expansions allowing all guilds to progress. So while the tier 1 guilds were plowing through ssra and vt, we were doing velious and minor luclin mobs. While they were farming time we were just hitting elementals. You could be casual and still feel like you're progressing even if at a lower tier

[khysanth]

but for the sake of the server those willing to stoop to the lowest levels of RL/EQ balance should not set the precedent.

I've got some historically bad news for you.

[Man0warr]

Is this really true?

Wouldn't there still be a rotation if this were accurate?

There can't be a rotation if the top 2 guilds don't abide by it.

[Thana8088]

There can't be a rotation if the top 2 guilds don't abide by it.

Ohhhhh so that's why the rotation fell apart. Thanks for the clarification! ;)

[FatMice]

No, the real difference is that if casual raiders were given rules that allowed them realistic shots, your guild and the other "A" would fall apart completely within a month, while the casual guilds would keep on keeping on, because they dont define themselves as 'the 4%' like you just did, and as functioning adults are literally aghast that there are really people who do, and what they put up with to be there...

This is where you get the hardcore players to loose their shit and call your a casual slumlord. Why do you think you or anyone else should be given a free shot at anything; let alone a rule set allowing this to be true? Right now the hardest content this game has to offer is a run up style of play while the A/A is not even touching Kunark mobs. There is absolutely no excuse anyone who wants to kill raid mobs in NToV or Kael. Show up to the start line and hopefully you get a favorable spawn due to variance. I do this. Gimp does this. Eratani does this (sorry if I spelled you're name wrong).

[Raev]

There can't be a rotation if the top 2 guilds don't abide by it.

You are conveniently forgetting that there was a rotation on this server at one point, and if it had been maintained going into Velious I think it's not impossible that we'd still have an R/C system

[Legday]

our prime time numbers are near the 40's if we are lucky. All guilds are carried by those willing to "do the work" that A/A and the like have set as the precedent. you can have 100 online and it doesn't really matter if you don't have a core 20 people willing to track/race at all hours. Dispersing the weight is a skill set, and a logistical feat for any guild. The only thing that differentiates the guild tiers at this point and their "quality" as a guild is how hard that core crew are willing to go to secure the mobs

Nailed it.

[Man0warr]

It was just as much of a shitshow on live, at least on bristlebane. And if they had the ability to batphone then I'm sure they would have. The difference was continuous expansions allowing all guilds to progress. So while the tier 1 guilds were plowing through ssra and vt, we were doing velious and minor luclin mobs. While they were farming time we were just hitting elementals. You could be casual and still feel like you're progressing even if at a lower tier

The content wasn't released fast enough and there will never be enough of it on P99 for that to work.

All the changes Verant/Sony made were to combat the problems as they arose on Live. Specifically Epic revamps (to move epic pieces off top-end raid content), adding roamers to safe spots and rooting dragons in ToV (to force crawling instead of training), and eventually instancing. They screwed up pretty bad with the VT key quest and making Rallos Zek easily bottlenecked to keep other guilds out of Elemental Planes.

[Man0warr]

You are conveniently forgetting that there was a rotation on this server at one point, and if it had been maintained going into Velious I think it's not impossible that we'd still have an R/C system

No, one of the big reasons the rotation fell apart is Rogean/Sirken/Nilbog heavily hinting at the Class system being removed with Velious in the announcement stream months and months before the rotation died. They felt pretty strongly that the extra raid targets would fix all the problems with the raid scene.

[FatMice]

You are conveniently forgetting that there was a rotation on this server at one point, and if it had been maintained going into Velious I think it's not impossible that we'd still have an R/C system

I think you would find a few people in both A/A who would be tolerate of a modified class rotation system. Something with Key Mobs/Tiers.

[xexbis0]

I'd rather play on the side of the 4% of the server that likes to kill everything and push the limits of content when I log on to this server when I am not able to. That is the difference between you an I.

9/10 spin. I hadn't heard the "I live for the 4 AM weekday batphones" before. But Fugues pretty much nailed it. Neither Aftermath or Awakened are going anywhere til their dedicated trackera who put in insane amounts of hours decide to hang up the boots.

I don't really think being given anything in ToV should even be considered. That's the endgame zone reserved for those willing to do whatever it takes. There are other encounters outside of that tjough that losing pixels once every 3 spawn cycles wouldnt really kill anybody and would allow the casual guilds to actually experience Velious while seeing a tiny dabble of premium loot. Some fun dragons. Some difficult encounters and some tank and spank fights.

[FatMice]

You call it spin. I call it the way I play? I don't understand.

[Turp]

More rules sucks. But it won't be the server killer...What i post below though , will.

Since having a variance of 16 hours (non classic) I've seen a lot of people leave due to burnout and yet new ones come.
BUT ( You only have a limited amount of these players , before you run out)
So yes it sucks too , and is very likely that in the future this will be looked at as a main culprit in "killing the server" and honestly probably kills real people in real life too. (change the shit , it is unhealthy , it is unclassic) .
With GM recently stating they want more variance and "will not lower it" , then I guess we will have to deal with it. Hell , even 10 hour variance would take the edge off and literally save lives both in game and RL. They don't have to remove it , rather modify. By all means though , kill.. I mean do the game as you wish, you made it.

The Killer ... The "dagger to the heart of p1999". The final and true killer (using killer instead of killers because I'm sure at least 1 (if not more) of these will fall short. But really common sense should ring your bell here. with so many daggers being thrown , 1 is bound to strike a deadly blow.

1. Pantheon - EQ1 version 2.0? will see. It is going to be hard for a new company to match the fear factor of classic EQ. Mainly due to the carebear generations being raised. And let me tell you , I would rather play with a Casual p99er > Carebear all day.

2. A new Project 1999 blue / red with accurate Timeline. (more a savior than a killer in some aspects but eluding to the current two servers , this would be a dagger to the heart. It could be 1 month or 1 year etc. , Doesn't matter because it WILL decline the current servers until only a crazy person population would remain. Unless new custom content was released which it has been talked about but highly doubtful and ... a big factor would be will they still keep 16 hour variance? )

3. Camelot Unchained - More of a red killer

4.Uthgaard DAoC again - more of a red killer. Another unlikely scenario but I would definitely (if i was in Rogean's shoes) push a hard coded teams 99 before Uthgaard release because Vallon zek in 1999-2002 ish was the shit before Sony decided to allow X/Cross teaming.
Haven't ya had enough of this "Uthgaard bane" in the past here on p99...cough GM Uthgaard (loved them GM events though).
The world is trying to tell ya something...might be a smart decision to at least look into it.
or not , continue to ignore it and try a release after Daoc and Uthgaard immerse the limited pool of people who play these types of games.
GL w/ that , or rather more likely GG?

[xexbis0]

You call it spin. I call it the way I play? I don't understand.

Besides the fact you contradict what you're saying in your own post? I don't really care to be honest. Was mostly being sarcastic.

To be fair, I think that the smaller guilds should have to give up all rights to ToV for the 1/3 spawns of the mobs I'm referring to much like VP was in Kunark. I think that would be a nice middle ground where each side of the fence didn't even have to care about what the other side is doing.

The problem lies in the fact that the larger guilds thrive on being able to deny people content. It's part of the fun for them. It's not competition. It's a lot about pixels and being able to cockblock and throw their image around as if they are accomplishing something that people simply can't. That's why they do what they do.

[JurisDictum]

Sometimes I forget that I'm in the MMO equivalent of a hardcore fascist militia somewhere out in the middle of the Appalachians. People here tend to have a "purist" attitude about classic mechanics that's simply nutty by mainstream thinking.

The parallels between people that think John Locke got everything right in 1690, and think EQ got everything right in 1999, are pretty apparent to me.

I think we could give casuals a free shot at the entire end zone once every 5-6 weeks. Please explain to me how bad that could possibly be?

[FatMice]

Besides the fact you contradict what you're saying in your own post?

Where did I do this?

[zanderklocke]

The parallels between people that think John Locke got everything right in 1690, and think EQ got everything right in 1999, are pretty apparent to me.


Ha.

[Legday]

The problem lies in the fact that the larger guilds thrive on being able to deny people content. It's part of the fun for them. It's not competition. It's a lot about pixels and being able to cockblock and throw their image around as if they are accomplishing something that people simply can't. That's why they do what they do.

This is a toxic opinion. It's not true. We only thrive on beating our regular competition. In our case that is Awakened 95% of the time. I take no joy in cockblocking anybody.

Cockblocking people for fun is not the same thing in taking as big of a slice of the pie for ourselves as we can. We have 80-90 people logging in on the reg. That's a lot of mouths to feed.

This all comes back to something I've said many times...how many people seeing end game content on this server before we are at equilibrium? I say we are already there with around 200 players seeing it on a weekly basis between 2 guilds. The game of Everquest isn't supposed to have 400 people in NToV. Find out who designed that zone and write them a strongly worded letter.

[Man0warr]

I think we could give casuals a free shot at the entire end zone once every 5-6 weeks. Please explain to me how bad that could possibly be?

Can't allow that - if AA doesn't compete for all available pixels the guilds will destroy themselves from within.

[Kileras]

This is a toxic opinion. It's not true. We only thrive on beating our regular competition. In our case that is Awakened 95% of the time. I take no joy in cockblocking anybody.

Cockblocking people for fun is not the same thing in taking as big of a slice of the pie for ourselves as we can. We have 80-90 people logging in on the reg. That's a lot of mouths to feed.

This all comes back to something I've said many times...how many people seeing end game content on this server before we are at equilibrium? I say we are already there with around 200 players seeing it on a weekly basis between 2 guilds. The game of Everquest isn't supposed to have 400 people in NToV. Find out who designed that zone and write them a strongly worded letter.

a lot of us come from a background of "classic" where 3-5 guilds easily handled NToV in a fair way. The problem is not the zone, the problem is the way you want to approach the zone and applying the mentality that p99 has had through the years to ToV. There is nothing wrong with ToV as a zone, it would be a blast to crawl ToV with CSG/BDA and split paths/clear to different mobs/take turns taking wacks at the bigger names... maybe racing for the bigger mobs? there are ways to make the zone amenable, those ways just don't fit into the min/max mindset of the top 2 guilds.

3 weeks on NToV 1, week on VP for A/A
3 weeks on VP, 1 week on NtoV for CSG/Anonymous/Divinity/BDA

would that honestly be so incredibly horrid? It probably isn't the right situation, but it is a start that REALLY shouldn't bother anyone should it? I don't know, i don't even know why I am really trying to come up with solutions anymore.

[Man0warr]

This all comes back to something I've said many times...how many people seeing end game content on this server before we are at equilibrium? I say we are already there with around 200 players seeing it on a weekly basis between 2 guilds. The game of Everquest isn't supposed to have 400 people in NToV. Find out who designed that zone and write them a strongly worded letter.

It's not, that's why they kept adding expansions every 9 months-1 year to keep those 200 hardcore people moving on to the next content.

But P99 isn't classic in that sense. There are 6-10 guilds on this server with the skills and tactics to equal the Fires of Heavens/Brotherhood of the Spider/Triton/etc of 2001.

The ONLY real solution is more content (via Earthquakes), but Rogean/Nilbog really seem against that. There's 3 to 5x more "endgame" guilds on P99, but there is even LESS content than there was on Live servers (more frequent patches, weekly maintenance, random server crashes, etc).

[Alenon]

The content wasn't released fast enough and there will never be enough of it on P99 for that to work.

All the changes Verant/Sony made were to combat the problems as they arose on Live. Specifically Epic revamps (to move epic pieces off top-end raid content), adding roamers to safe spots and rooting dragons in ToV (to force crawling instead of training), and eventually instancing. They screwed up pretty bad with the VT key quest and making Rallos Zek easily bottlenecked to keep other guilds out of Elemental Planes.

But that is exactly my point. It was fast enough for us as a tier 2 guilds as the top 3 rarely butted heads with us lower casuals, but you're right in that it couldn't release fast enough for the hardcore. And of course with no expansions coming here how long will it last? 4 years of Jindal and people dealt cause they knew various was coming at some point

[xexbis0]

This is a toxic opinion. It's not true. We only thrive on beating our regular competition. In our case that is Awakened 95% of the time. I take no joy in cockblocking anybody.

Cockblocking people for fun is not the same thing in taking as big of a slice of the pie for ourselves as we can. We have 80-90 people logging in on the reg. That's a lot of mouths to feed.

This all comes back to something I've said many times...how many people seeing end game content on this server before we are at equilibrium? I say we are already there with around 200 players seeing it on a weekly basis between 2 guilds. The game of Everquest isn't supposed to have 400 people in NToV. Find out who designed that zone and write them a strongly worded letter.

It's not a toxic opinion. For a promise to get out of your way and STFU about your ToV rules altogether (meaning if you kill in ToV or any class C mob you are instantly class C), you give up 1 in 3 KTs,CTs,Zlands,Klands,Dains etc.

Class C maintains it's exclusivity in recruiting. You want to see ToV? Better join these 2 guilds. Class R gets to probably end up rotating between CSG/DA/BDA the lockout timers on the above mobs and see a little bit of content.

If Class R were to say no to such a proposal, I'll be right there with A/A to tell them they are being greedy and want something for nothing that others are there to work for. It's a very small price to pay, and both sides could stop playing this charade and have to give up a little bit of what they want to accomplish long term.

I've seen nothing even close to this mentioned. I've seen nothing from either leadership that even budges off the exclusivity of the content they're monopolizing. They don't want server-wide competition.

[Kodim]

There's only been 1 raid cycle for ToV with the new racing rules. Should probably try it out and get used to it first.

[Alenon]

I liked our ruleset on live for ntov, whoever got aary claimed all of ntov. Course now there's variance

[JurisDictum]

Wait until casuals find out that the raid scene is not like this:
7340

But actually like this:
7341

[Thana8088]

Would a guild have to down Sontalak to get their free time in ToV?

[ArumTP]

No, the real difference is that if casual raiders were given rules that allowed them realistic shots, your guild and the other "A" would fall apart completely within a month, while the casual guilds would keep on keeping on, because they dont define themselves as 'the 4%' like you just did, and as functioning adults are literally aghast that there are really people who do, and what they put up with to be there...

The rules were always simple in NTOV/all other high end velious content get FTE, don't stall, don't train and wipe each other, no more than 2 trackers, trackers can't get FTE. Anyone can get a realistic shot at a mob, with those rules. Casuals just won't put in the 16 hour window tracking times to get said best loot, against the raiding guilds that would smash them hard. I mean they are willing to track 16 hour windows for all that kunark shit that we all but have abandoned. So, its really not about they window of time, its that they would face and loose time and time again against A/A, completely demoralizing them.

Rules were in some effect made better for casuals by sirken. They get full hour to get their shit together and kill a mob after FTE, no more stalling called on a mob that took all of 1 min too long. Some were made rules made worse for casuals, they now have to have large FTE teams instead of a coth mage and a single puller. But still casuals never bother to show. They have the desire to get BiS items, but have no desire to compete against A/A to get it. They will wine and cry to get more rules made, so that ultimately they wont have to compete for it.


a lot of us come from a background of "classic" where 3-5 guilds easily handled NToV in a fair way. The problem is not the zone, the problem is the way you want to approach the zone and applying the mentality that p99 has had through the years to ToV. There is nothing wrong with ToV as a zone, it would be a blast to crawl ToV with CSG/BDA and split paths/clear to different mobs/take turns taking wacks at the bigger names... maybe racing for the bigger mobs? there are ways to make the zone amenable, those ways just don't fit into the min/max mindset of the top 2 guilds.

3 weeks on NToV 1, week on VP for A/A
3 weeks on VP, 1 week on NtoV for CSG/Anonymous/Divinity/BDA

would that honestly be so incredibly horrid? It probably isn't the right situation, but it is a start that REALLY shouldn't bother anyone should it? I don't know, i don't even know why I am really trying to come up with solutions anymore.

The problem is that you give yourselves mobs for free. Us in A/A much like our NTOV all the time and a bit of VP (-minus stuff bda snags). Why should we give you anything? The players and guilds that came to form A/A, wanted all that BiS loot, forced themselves in there and work hard to stcave into their deay there getting that loot. Why would A/A let anyone just take their shit for free? Neither side certainly gets their shit for free, if you want loot you must work for it.

In no way have you incentivized A/A members to change. Making loot demands, I mean "content demands", isn't the way to go about this.

[Raev]

I'm not sure who this JurisDictum guy is, but I like him despite his poor choice of guild.

Look, in a lot of ways I sympathize with the staff here. This project has the explicit goal of recreating Classic EverQuest in every detail. Unfortunately that game is simply not suited to a cadre of min-maxing players at max level who all looked up every strategy online. Where I start to get frustrated is with the staff's reaction. Simulated repops wouldn't be perfect, but they would help a lot while being fairly classic (server resets were common) while variance is completely unclassic. The staff's unwillingness to implement these automatically has been puzzling me for several years now.

I don't sympathize much with the many players over the years who have argued that non-classic mechanics are necessary to make sure they can get all the pixels.

[Man0warr]

There is not a single person against more Earthquakes (or even guaranteed one a week) and no actual 7 day repops. Every week, people raid for 3-4 hours until everything is dead - The best guilds get the best loot, but they can't get it all. Each guild can prioritize what targets are most important to them.

[Raev]

The problem is that you give yourselves mobs for free. Why should we give you anything?

Like this for instance. I mean, I can understand the 'I don't mind tracking and batphoning and you do, therefore I shall have 4500 mana and when your casual ass is crying 'oom' I shall cast my glorious 12th CH'.

But can you at least admit that your ability to 'dominate' this content stems entirely from the non-classic aids known as variance? And that, as this project says 'classic everquest' on the door that variance should go away?

[ArumTP]

Like this for instance. I mean, I can understand the 'I don't mind tracking and batphoning and you do, therefore I shall have 4500 mana and when your casual ass is crying 'oom' I shall cast my glorious 12th CH'.

But can you at least admit that your ability to 'dominate' this content stems entirely from the non-classic aids known as variance? And that, as this project says 'classic everquest' on the door that variance should go away?

My ass only dreams of 4500 mana. I sit at a sad ass 3600 due to poor starting stat allocation.

I concur variance is aids. It needs to be reduced by 1/2 or even 1/4 for any casual to have any shot at the rate we are going in A/A It would also rid of this looming sense of burnout that is on the horizon for anyone that has to do these long ass windows. When TOV goes 4 days long it becomes some serious crap. 0 varriance is also terrible. We get this Coth race down to the very second something pops Like we got going with failed ring war dains, that is also aids

[Troubled]

hahahaha

[Turp]

Take the variance talk to my server chat post just do not rant and flame (i posted same shit here rant it here). And lets be heard instead of ignored. It is worth a shot. Hell we could save someones life , kinda crazy , but literally.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2243574#post2243574

The leaders of casual guilds here really fail to understand that a little lower variance would GREATLY help them out.
Just a quick example cause I rather get this in server chat because maybe the right eyes will see it. Is like a brick wall in RNF guys so lets push this in the right spots, please!
16 hour variance , allows the mobs to spread out so far, so quickly, that 2 guilds can cover it all. Literally the top 2 if they wanted could do just like TMO did and shut out the casual. But the top are not blood thirsty as people make them out. Maybe a few, but most of these people have done gone when a class R otation system was implemented.

Now say they do 8 hour variance. Than do a rumble repop. The next spawn cycle the raid mobs are all gonna spawn within 8 hours of each others windows. This will keep them so overlapped that the top 2 will be forced to pick and choose rather than dominate all. It is basic as that , and if you wanna get more in detail and NOT ranty than see ya in my server post to try and deter this shit.

[dafier]

At work right now... just got done cloning some people.

I rubbed my head after and smelled my hand. It's smells.... weird. Not bad, but musky.

[Llodd]

I think we could give casuals a free shot at the entire end zone once every 5-6 weeks. Please explain to me how bad that could possibly be?

I and a few others were advocating for something similar back in 2013. The answer is this:


The problem is that you give yourselves mobs for free. Us in A/A much like our NTOV all the time and a bit of VP (-minus stuff bda snags). Why should we give you anything? The players and guilds that came to form A/A, wanted all that BiS loot, forced themselves in there and work hard to stcave into their deay there getting that loot. Why would A/A let anyone just take their shit for free? Neither side certainly gets their shit for free, if you want loot you must work for it.

This thread is deja vu. A pointless waste of time, because even tho some of the leadership has changed the ideology of a/a is exactly the same as that of TMO or IB was when they were dominating. It's a job to them and not a game to be enjoyed, and certainly not to be 'enjoyed' by anyone else.

Look at how this guy talks. They think they own the game and the pixels therein (and to an extent they do) but their whole attitude is a stinking pile of shite and to any sane person plain embarrasing.

Unless the casuals get their act together more; which is not as unlikely as it was when TMO were dominating, Rogean/Nilbog will do what they did pre velious and bring back the class system (assuming the status quo of domination is maintained and the server hasnt died) The casuals will just have to wait for that to happen.

tl;dr pointless thread going nowhere.

[xexbis0]

It's my understanding that it's a non starter discussion with variance and staff. I don't think anything under 10 is realistic but shoot for 10-12. 12 literally harms no one. It's too long for casuals to sock full windows. It's too long for A/A to come roaring back into Kunark full force. It keeps windows a little tighter in between our 4 earthquakes a year. It just takes a little poop out of the socks.

[Phantasm]

Week 1 - Earthquake
Week 2 - 8-12 hour variance
Week 3 - Earthquake
Week 4 - 8-12 hour variance

Move Earthquake timers back or forward X hours.

Win/win/win

[Swish]

Week 1 - Earthquake
Week 2 - 8-12 hour variance
Week 3 - Earthquake
Week 4 - 8-12 hour variance

Move Earthquake timers back or forward X hours.

Win/win/win

Sounds like you're asking volunteers to do more volunteering.

[Mistle]

Sounds like you're asking volunteers to do more volunteering.

I'll fuckin do it then if Sirken is too busy turning people into gnomes in EC to get around to it.

[Swish]

I'll fuckin do it then if Sirken is too busy turning people into gnomes in EC to get around to it.

Only Rogpal can hit the earthquake button iirc. I'm sure everyone would love that kind of job.

[Phantasm]

I think Swish has a crush on me

Really though, automate two repops a month with the off weeks having normal, non classic variance to allow guulds to pick which mobs they want to put effort into.

During repops people enjoy this game. During the other 50 spawn cycles people bitch about it. The answer seems pretty evident to me

[Turp]

I and a few others were advocating for something similar back in 2013. The answer is this:



This thread is deja vu. A pointless waste of time, because even tho some of the leadership has changed the ideology of a/a is exactly the same as that of TMO or IB was when they were dominating. It's a job to them and not a game to be enjoyed, and certainly not to be 'enjoyed' by anyone else.

Look at how this guy talks. They think they own the game and the pixels therein (and to an extent they do) but their whole attitude is a stinking pile of shite and to any sane person plain embarrasing.

Unless the casuals get their act together more; which is not as unlikely as it was when TMO were dominating, Rogean/Nilbog will do what they did pre velious and bring back the class system (assuming the status quo of domination is maintained and the server hasnt died) The casuals will just have to wait for that to happen.

tl;dr pointless thread going nowhere.

You are damn wrong. A/A would gladly take lower variance , even though it helps casuals. The shit is not fun. Play both sides before ya speak.
I have spoke to leaders and officers of your casual guild and literraly damn near begged them and explained to them how lower variance would help them. And they fought me. Not A/A . I am on no side. I am a ever crack junky. We are not here to attack you. and PLEASE when did TMO secretly agree (not make a public rant about it) to give away kunark/classic mobs for 3 or whatever weeks like A/A recently agreed to.

Now onto the leaders. Put up or shut up.
I have had 7 or more casual guild leaders and officers that were going into the most recent GM meeting fight with me. What about? Oh yea , lowering variance. But then the same fucking people bitch about top end taking all the mobs. WTF are ya guys smoking? You should get in this convo because you know who you are because I tried to help you BEFORE the meeting and you all was worried about dumb shit that has not , and will not , help you 1 damn bit.
Races? Rules? oh yea "this will help the casual" . Get fucking real.:confused:
Maybe because I am not in a casual guild they just assume I was trying to harm them? but i don't think that would even hold up. Well it wouldn't if you have a higher than mental retardation IQ. Because you would see the bigger picture.
Good luck racing A/A I can tell you for a fact a lower variance would HELP YOU.
Races , will not. We blast past you and tag that FTE all day everyday... but please prove me wrong. All you that ignored or fought my plea for you to ask for a lower variance. All you leaders and officers that literally have excuses (hope they post them its hilarious) that lower variance would hurt you.

Top end is not the blood thirsty people of last few years, in fact most them are gone and just a few remain. Why do you think A/A just made an agreement to leave kunark and classic to the casuals for 3 or whatever weeks. Its because we hate you and want you to die? ... nope. Please remove head from ass and again see the bigger picture. The overwhelming majority of the people you speak of are GONE. They left when class R otation was forced.

ps please post the excuses you fed me. Your "reason" for fighting for races instead of lower variance. You obviously didn't discuss it with your members because the shit talk is rampant. And what I said to you is common sense in the MMO world.
Please post our conversations to the public. It was PMs so I won't do it right now, but if u same people keep saying dumb shit I have no choice but to show the public your ridiculous paper thin arguments. These guild leaders I speak of , are "leaders" that are leading their people to being totally dominated by A/A and reduced to handouts . You people are wrong. Maybe let the public tell you because you all ignored me and fought me on variance , then you turn around and fought for... races.
Jeeze
smh

#rant off

[Swish]

I think Swish has a crush on me

Really though, automate two repops a month with the off weeks having normal, non classic variance to allow guulds to pick which mobs they want to put effort into.

During repops people enjoy this game. During the other 50 spawn cycles people bitch about it. The answer seems pretty evident to me

Automated repops so everyone can plan for them? Sounds great. See you at the popular camp spots with 300 others.

Or perhaps we could start a thread in raid discussion and pre-plan what each guild is going to take? Shit, maybe even rotate stuff based on knowing there'll be another one soon.

In truth, scheduled repops sounds horrible, not classic, lends weight to NA time zone players over any Euros/Aussies/Asians/etc... and you're a dum dum who doesn't think these things out.

[Swish]

You are damn wrong. A/A would gladly take lower variance , even though it helps casuals. The shit is not fun. Play both sides before ya speak.
I have spoke to leaders and officers of your casual guild and literraly damn near begged them and explained to them how lower variance would help them. And they fought me. Not A/A . I am on no side. I am a ever crack junky. We are not here to attack you. and PLEASE when did TMO secretly agree (not make a public rant about it) to give away kunark/classic mobs for 3 or whatever weeks like A/A recently agreed to.

Now onto the leaders. Put up or shut up.
I have had 7 or more casual guild leaders and officers that were going into the most recent GM meeting fight with me. What about? Oh yea , lowering variance. But then the same fucking people bitch about top end taking all the mobs. WTF are ya guys smoking? You should get in this convo because you know who you are because I tried to help you BEFORE the meeting and you all was worried about dumb shit that has not , and will not , help you 1 damn bit.
Races? Rules? oh yea "this will help the casual" . Get fucking real.:confused:
Maybe because I am not in a casual guild they just assume I was trying to harm them? but i don't think that would even hold up. Well it wouldn't if you have a higher than mental retardation IQ. Because you would see the bigger picture.
Good luck racing A/A I can tell you for a fact a lower variance would HELP YOU.
Races , will not. We blast past you and tag that FTE all day everyday... but please prove me wrong. All you that ignored or fought my plea for you to ask for a lower variance. All you leaders and officers that literally have excuses (hope they post them its hilarious) that lower variance would hurt you.

Top end is not the blood thirsty people of last few years, in fact most them are gone and just a few remain. Why do you think A/A just made an agreement to leave kunark and classic to the casuals for 3 or whatever weeks. Its because we hate you and want you to die? ... nope. Please remove head from ass and again see the bigger picture. The overwhelming majority of the people you speak of are GONE. They left when class R otation was forced.

ps please post the excuses you fed me. Your "reason" for fighting for races instead of lower variance. You obviously didn't discuss it with your members because the shit talk is rampant. And what I said to you is common sense in the MMO world.
Please post our conversations to the public. It was PMs so I won't do it right now, but if u same people keep saying dumb shit I have no choice but to show the public your ridiculous paper thin arguments. These guild leaders I speak of , are "leaders" that are leading their people to being totally dominated by A/A and reduced to handouts . You people are wrong. Maybe let the public tell you because you all ignored me and fought me on variance , then you turn around and fought for... races.
Jeeze
smh

#rant off

http://i.imgur.com/r1647Os.png

[Mistle]

The rules were always simple in NTOV/all other high end velious content get FTE, don't stall, don't train and wipe each other, no more than 2 trackers, trackers can't get FTE. Anyone can get a realistic shot at a mob, with those rules. Casuals just won't put in the 16 hour window tracking times to get said best loot, against the raiding guilds that would smash them hard. I mean they are willing to track 16 hour windows for all that kunark shit that we all but have abandoned. So, its really not about they window of time, its that they would face and loose time and time again against A/A, completely demoralizing them.

Rules were in some effect made better for casuals by sirken. They get full hour to get their shit together and kill a mob after FTE, no more stalling called on a mob that took all of 1 min too long. Some were made rules made worse for casuals, they now have to have large FTE teams instead of a coth mage and a single puller. But still casuals never bother to show. They have the desire to get BiS items, but have no desire to compete against A/A to get it. They will wine and cry to get more rules made, so that ultimately they wont have to compete for it.

Yeah this is exactly the kind of shitty attitude I was referring to, the kind that makes pretty much everyone from outside this server look at people like you with the biggest "wtf?" expressions on their faces.

Listen. No one is afraid of "competing" against you. What people have a problem with is the absolute ridiculous lengths this "competition" has gone to. It's not just having to track for a mob for up to sixteen hours, that's plenty bad enough and variance is fucking cancer. No. It's the fucking level of dedication you need to put into how it is tracking now to win anything.

Maybe people disassociated with current raiding don't know what I am talking about, what Arum is desperately trying to downplay. You don't just track a mob and then race to it nowadays. People are literally setting up a skype live stream for everyone in their guild to watch. You stare at this stream. You can't look away for a second, because that's all it takes. The race will be won by the person who was literally staring at the screen eyes locked forward at the time the mob spawned, for HOURS. Look away for a second? You just lost. Someone types something in caps in guildchat and you instinctively read it? You just lost. Dog barks? You just lost. Look for that glass of Dr. Pepper beside you? You just lost. Throw the ball for your dog? You just lost. Forget having a movie on. Forget watching some Game of Thrones. Forget reading a book or talking on the phone or even trolling RnF, because the second you do, maybe the second you lose focus just thinking about doing it, you just lost.

This. Is. Insane.

No one can do this. Not even A/A, really. But what they can do is throw a dozen people or more each at the race so that even if three or four of them happen to glance down at the chat window for a second (all it takes to lose the race), several of the others were hovering over that run key ready to go.

None of the casual guilds have that many people willing to go to such stupid lengths over pixels. The few people willing to race in each guild, they can try, and maybe they'll be lucky enough to be on that hair trigger to get into the race the millisecond the mob spawns, and actually be the one who gets the aggro first out of the dozens racing. Maybe. Probably not, though, and as the losses mount the fewer who will bother to try.

And so you get people like Arum who think this is "putting more effort into it". It's not putting more effort, it's escalating it far past the point of sanity. You have successfully turned the "competition" into something ludicrously embarrassing, something that would, and is, looked at by people outside the server as probably the most pathetic thing ever conceived of in all of computer gaming history.

And it SHOCKS you that other people want to bring it back to something resembling non idiotic? You actually look DOWN on others for not wanting to DO this? Take a look at your life, buddy. Or at the lives of the people you are making do this, if you aren't, in your lust to get pixels over other people. This is not normal behavior.

And if these people are so fucking deranged that this is considered healthy competition for mobs, then GMs need to step in and actually bring some sort of intelligence and maturity to this, and shut this kind of thing down. Unfortunately, instead we have Sirken. Braknar thinks that begging A/A to give up mobs they never had any interest in in the first place is some kind of accomplishment to be applauded, obviously nothing useful is going to come from him. It has to be Sirken. And that is a problem.

[Turp]

Yeah this is exactly the kind of shitty attitude I was referring to, the kind that makes pretty much everyone from outside this server look at people like you with the biggest "wtf?" expressions on their faces.

Listen. No one is afraid of "competing" against you. What people have a problem with is the absolute ridiculous lengths this "competition" has gone to. It's not just having to track for a mob for up to sixteen hours, that's plenty bad enough and variance is fucking cancer. No. It's the fucking level of dedication you need to put into how it is tracking now to win anything.

Maybe people disassociated with current raiding don't know what I am talking about, what Arum is desperately trying to downplay. You don't just track a mob and then race to it nowadays. People are literally setting up a skype live stream for everyone in their guild to watch. You stare at this stream. You can't look away for a second, because that's all it takes. The race will be won by the person who was literally staring at the screen eyes locked forward at the time the mob spawned, for HOURS. Look away for a second? You just lost. Someone types something in caps in guildchat and you instinctively read it? You just lost. Dog barks? You just lost. Look for that glass of Dr. Pepper beside you? You just lost. Throw the ball for your dog? You just lost. Forget having a movie on. Forget watching some Game of Thrones. Forget reading a book or talking on the phone or even trolling RnF, because the second you do, maybe the second you lose focus just thinking about doing it, you just lost.

This. Is. Insane.

No one can do this. Not even A/A, really. But what they can do is throw a dozen people or more each at the race so that even if three or four of them happen to glance down at the chat window for a second (all it takes to lose the race), several of the others were hovering over that run key ready to go.

None of the casual guilds have that many people willing to go to such stupid lengths over pixels. The few people willing to race in each guild, they can try, and maybe they'll be lucky enough to be on that hair trigger to get into the race the millisecond the mob spawns, and actually be the one who gets the aggro first out of the dozens racing. Maybe. Probably not, though, and as the losses mount the fewer who will bother to try.

And so you get people like Arum who think this is "putting more effort into it". It's not putting more effort, it's escalating it far past the point of sanity. You have successfully turned the "competition" into something ludicrously embarrassing, something that would, and is, looked at by people outside the server as probably the most pathetic thing ever conceived of in all of computer gaming history.

And it SHOCKS you that other people want to bring it back to something resembling non idiotic? You actually look DOWN on others for not wanting to DO this? Take a look at your life, buddy. Or at the lives of the people you are making do this, if you aren't, in your lust to get pixels over other people. This is not normal behavior.

And if these people are so fucking deranged that this is considered healthy competition for mobs, then GMs need to step in and actually bring some sort of intelligence and maturity to this, and shut this kind of thing down. Unfortunately, instead we have Sirken. Braknar thinks that begging A/A to give up mobs they never had any interest in in the first place is some kind of accomplishment to be applauded, obviously nothing useful is going to come from him. It has to be Sirken. And that is a problem.

Guess you did not read what I posted?
Because the top guilds did not ask for races. Your casual side did. The top guilds tried to lower variance, casuals blocked it.
Take it up with your leaders. in public. if they deny it ill slam their ass

[Mistle]

I think Swish has a crush on me

Really though, automate two repops a month with the off weeks having normal, non classic variance to allow guulds to pick which mobs they want to put effort into.

During repops people enjoy this game. During the other 50 spawn cycles people bitch about it. The answer seems pretty evident to me

How about no respawn on raid mobs at all. ONLY earthquakes. Randomize the times. Do it enough to give a reasonably accurate amount of loot coming into the server. Maybe have a "fast spawn raid mob" mini earthquake that spawns Trak, VS, and any others who come faster than 7 days. One earthquake (at least) a week, at a completely random time so the Euros and the few east asians that play don't get boned.

[Mistle]

Guess you did not read what I posted?
Because the top guilds did not ask for races. Your casual side did. The top guilds tried to lower variance, casuals blocked it.
Take it up with your leaders. in public. if they deny it ill slam their ass

Did they also argue for no limits on the number of racers at the same time?

You willing to go to one racer each?

[Turp]

How about no respawn on raid mobs at all. ONLY earthquakes. Randomize the times. Do it enough to give a reasonably accurate amount of loot coming into the server. Maybe have a "fast spawn raid mob" mini earthquake that spawns Trak, VS, and any others who come faster than 7 days. One earthquake (at least) a week, at a completely random time so the Euros and the few east asians that play don't get boned.

Ah i see that got you on that dumb repop idea.
Not gonna happen due to the leader of the server , nothing to do with the players choice on repops. It could quickly kill the server. Not a player choice is a maker choice. Deal with it.

Now lowering variance the makers are open to , especially if we banded together. (well not the casual leaders they fought against lower variance and fought FOR races last meeting.) Lower variance would have near the same effect you are seeking for your casual guilds WHILE also not ruining the server. but keep on fighting it.
your leaders lead you into submission.

[Turp]

Did they also argue for no limits on the number of racers at the same time?

You willing to go to one racer each?

Leader of Aftermath Detoxx I am damn near positive would love 1 racer. I think he fought for 2. Now Awaken may have been against the low number but the casuals in that meeting have 0 room for defense when THEY FOUGHT FOR RACES AND FOUGHT AGAINST LOWER VARIANCE.
http://rs58.pbsrc.com/albums/g275/ShinyYellowTruck/Facepalm%20WTF/bangHeadAgainstWall.gif~c200

[khysanth]

Guess you did not read what I posted?
Because the top guilds did not ask for races. Your casual side did. The top guilds tried to lower variance, casuals blocked it.
Take it up with your leaders. in public. if they deny it ill slam their ass

Super lol at blaming the embarrassing raid scene on casual guilds

[Phantasm]

Automated repops so everyone can plan for them? Sounds great. See you at the popular camp spots with 300 others.

Or perhaps we could start a thread in raid discussion and pre-plan what each guild is going to take? Shit, maybe even rotate stuff based on knowing there'll be another one soon.

In truth, scheduled repops sounds horrible, not classic, lends weight to NA time zone players over any Euros/Aussies/Asians/etc... and you're a dum dum who doesn't think these things out.

I think the nerds of Norrath could work with the idea though. Earthquakes with +/-72 hour variance starting Wednesdays. Camp out for targets of you want, the people that give a shot already do.

If these nerds could rotate without going flaccid they would have already.

And I don't see how monthly earthquakes(>1) hurt Euro or otherwise.

but, lol.

See you at the next thread bitching about this shitty games shittiness

[Mistle]

Leader of Aftermath Detoxx I am damn near positive would love 1 racer. I think he fought for 2. Now Awaken may have been against the low number but the casuals in that meeting have 0 room for defense when THEY FOUGHT FOR RACES AND FOUGHT AGAINST LOWER VARIANCE.

I guarantee you, whatever delusional belief you may have, the casual leaders did not fight for *this*, and the fact none of them support this now is really all that matters.

[Kodim]

I don't know what's happening in this thread but raids start tomorrow morning and last all day.

Bring out some runners and try to get Telk, Gozz, Dozekar, Eashen, Ikatiar, Aary, and Feshlak. 5 dragons and 2 midgets all a short distance from the zone in. Anyone can try for these.

[Man0warr]

Racing wasn't the casual leaders idea. They didn't know about it until Sirken said the next Kael spawns would be races. Probably some shit A/A suggested so they'd stop killing themselves with CotH ducking.

[Legday]

Racing wasn't the casual leaders idea. They didn't know about it until Sirken said the next Kael spawns would be races. Probably some shit A/A suggested so they'd stop killing themselves with CotH ducking.

We haven't coth ducked since before Velious. That's only something that happens when casual guilds show up. True story. AG showed up to a Sev and started Coth ducking on Asgard and Forsaken who had been sitting in EJ for 10 hours without the hint of a duck. Sounds like you know what you're talking about though.

[Turp]

Racing wasn't the casual leaders idea. They didn't know about it until Sirken said the next Kael spawns would be races. Probably some shit A/A suggested so they'd stop killing themselves with CotH ducking.

No not directly. The casual leaders pushed for repop ideas and rotations and FOUGHT LOWER VARIANCE. It is a damn simple answer for mass repops and rotations. It is not gonna happen. Not A/A fault. It is Master of the box. AKA creators of p99.

But why don't you ask these leaders of the casual guilds in public ? Ask if they fought against lower variance and didn't support it , yet pushed for repops and rotations?
I would love to see them try and deny it. Maybe Chest because he was the only one who didn't respond to my lower variance plea and I do not know where he stood in the meeting but when the others are all screaming for repops and rotations . You get races. But if they would of not fought me and maybe read what I wrote them and how I explained exactly how lower variance would increase loot and mobs for casual guilds to exact or at the very least near their repop idea / rotation idea level. They would of been way better off.

[Pokesan]

Increase variance. Break the cycle. End the sickness.

#FullSpawnLengthVarianceAndSkips2016

[JurisDictum]

The server is going down; are you happy with your guild?

I know I am.

http://aftermathguild.org/

[nicemace]

Increase variance. Break the cycle. End the sickness.

#FullSpawnLengthVarianceAndSkips2016

96 hour variance didn't stop shit. I doubt full spawn length would either.

[Cecily]

96 hour variance didn't stop shit. I doubt full spawn length would either.

96 stopped ALOT of shit.

[Speedi]

Increase variance. Break the cycle. End the sickness.

#FullSpawnLengthVarianceAndSkips2016

Bout the only time I have ever agreed with Poke

This would fix it though

Yes, at first u would have your jobless neckbeards going strong. But after a month or two that would be over.

[Turp]

Increase variance. Break the cycle. End the sickness.

#FullSpawnLengthVarianceAndSkips2016

lol ok well I shouldn't of gave ya the time for a response on your server chat trolling.
poor guy.
Go write some more non sense (near schizophrenic ) wutang little boy stories.
#noLIFER

[Mistle]

+/- 7 day variance, or +/- 10 minute variance. With some other adjustments, both of these would be better than what we have now.

[ArumTP]

Yeah this is exactly the kind of shitty attitude I was referring to, the kind that makes pretty much everyone from outside this server look at people like you with the biggest "wtf?" expressions on their faces.

Listen. No one is afraid of "competing" against you. What people have a problem with is the absolute ridiculous lengths this "competition" has gone to. It's not just having to track for a mob for up to sixteen hours, that's plenty bad enough and variance is fucking cancer. No. It's the fucking level of dedication you need to put into how it is tracking now to win anything.

Maybe people disassociated with current raiding don't know what I am talking about, what Arum is desperately trying to downplay. You don't just track a mob and then race to it nowadays. People are literally setting up a skype live stream for everyone in their guild to watch. You stare at this stream. You can't look away for a second, because that's all it takes. The race will be won by the person who was literally staring at the screen eyes locked forward at the time the mob spawned, for HOURS. Look away for a second? You just lost. Someone types something in caps in guildchat and you instinctively read it? You just lost. Dog barks? You just lost. Look for that glass of Dr. Pepper beside you? You just lost. Throw the ball for your dog? You just lost. Forget having a movie on. Forget watching some Game of Thrones. Forget reading a book or talking on the phone or even trolling RnF, because the second you do, maybe the second you lose focus just thinking about doing it, you just lost.

This. Is. Insane.

No one can do this. Not even A/A, really. But what they can do is throw a dozen people or more each at the race so that even if three or four of them happen to glance down at the chat window for a second (all it takes to lose the race), several of the others were hovering over that run key ready to go.

None of the casual guilds have that many people willing to go to such stupid lengths over pixels. The few people willing to race in each guild, they can try, and maybe they'll be lucky enough to be on that hair trigger to get into the race the millisecond the mob spawns, and actually be the one who gets the aggro first out of the dozens racing. Maybe. Probably not, though, and as the losses mount the fewer who will bother to try.

And so you get people like Arum who think this is "putting more effort into it". It's not putting more effort, it's escalating it far past the point of sanity. You have successfully turned the "competition" into something ludicrously embarrassing, something that would, and is, looked at by people outside the server as probably the most pathetic thing ever conceived of in all of computer gaming history.

And it SHOCKS you that other people want to bring it back to something resembling non idiotic? You actually look DOWN on others for not wanting to DO this? Take a look at your life, buddy. Or at the lives of the people you are making do this, if you aren't, in your lust to get pixels over other people. This is not normal behavior.

And if these people are so fucking deranged that this is considered healthy competition for mobs, then GMs need to step in and actually bring some sort of intelligence and maturity to this, and shut this kind of thing down. Unfortunately, instead we have Sirken. Braknar thinks that begging A/A to give up mobs they never had any interest in in the first place is some kind of accomplishment to be applauded, obviously nothing useful is going to come from him. It has to be Sirken. And that is a problem.

Screen sharing goes back further than the current crop of members in the A/A guilds. It was not widely known by the casuals till recently, because they never had to compete on that level, or heard of it till this raid summit.

Nobody said you HAVE to do any of this. Just expect this level of play style if you plan on competing with A/A.

All the casuals want is that sweet sweet ntov loot, but have no desire to compete with A/A to get it. They will band together, petition for future raid summits, and sirken to try and create a new walled garden C/R system to get that ntov loot.

[Pokesan]

lol ok well I shouldn't of gave ya the time for a response on your server chat trolling.
poor guy.
Go write some more non sense (near schizophrenic ) wutang little boy stories.
#noLIFER

? i dont like spyder i just wanted a cof :-(

[Swish]

Screen sharing goes back further than the current crop of members in the A/A guilds. It was not widely known by the casuals till recently, because they never had to compete on that level, or heard of it till this raid summit.

Nobody said you HAVE to do any of this. Just expect this level of play style if you plan on competing with A/A.

All the casuals want is that sweet sweet ntov loot, but have no desire to compete with A/A to get it. They will band together, petition for future raid summits, and sirken to try and create a new walled garden C/R system to get that ntov loot.

I don't think there'll be a Class C / Class R system after last time.

[jcr4990]

The casual leaders pushed for repop ideas and rotations and FOUGHT LOWER VARIANCE

I'm not sure who exactly you're nerdraging at here. But I'm in a "casual" guild and reducing variance was basically the #1 thing on my list of things I hoped would come from the raid summit. From nearly everyone I talked to in my guild and others it was consistently a top 3 idea that they wanted to see implemented. What I was told is that staff said it's not in the cards and they're happy with the current variance. The summit was specifically to discuss rule changes and nothing was going to change that required coding changes to the server itself (Reduce Variance/Automated Sim Repops.etc) even if the vast majority of the server agrees those kind of changes are what's really needed it's not likely to change.

[Turp]

Screen sharing goes back further than the current crop of members in the A/A guilds. It was not widely known by the casuals till recently, because they never had to compete on that level, or heard of it till this raid summit.

Nobody said you HAVE to do any of this. Just expect this level of play style if you plan on competing with A/A.

All the casuals want is that sweet sweet ntov loot, but have no desire to compete with A/A to get it. They will band together, petition for future raid summits, and sirken to try and create a new walled garden C/R system to get that ntov loot.

Also do you guys at Awakened put your whole guild or even more than 5 on a skype call?
I guess 2-3 average. They just talk out their ass. You gotta read what I've said though Arum. as you see no leader has responded. They won't. Because i got inboxes full of PMs of them arguing with me that lower variance would NOT help them only mass repops and rotations. They unintentionally forced racing, than have been bitching a storm up to their members to try and reverse it.
I will admit these guys are good at trying to manipulate the staff into another class system , but I hope staff can see threw the bullshit.

You guys are not getting a rotation or mass repops.
https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lphm4enunH1qj6y3go1_500.png

Lower variance and you will get what you was ALL bitching and crying for.
Whats that? well... more loot , more dragons , and the hardcore raiders stuck in ToV why you reap the rewards. I really am about to just say fuck it keep variance and keep taking all your guys mobs. Boo hoo bitch. Your leaders literally have such a hate I guess for old TMO that they can never forget. That they cannot see clearly how a lower variance would help them.
IDK ... kinda done trying to help someone who just wants to troll or be dumb. This is worse than head to brick wall. Even their leaders can't see clearly a 2+2 situation. You guys on the common core? or just going with the flow of dumb shit?

[Mistle]

Screen sharing goes back further than the current crop of members in the A/A guilds. It was not widely known by the casuals till recently, because they never had to compete on that level, or heard of it till this raid summit.

Nobody said you HAVE to do any of this. Just expect this level of play style if you plan on competing with A/A.

And it has been carefully explained to you that "this level of play style" is absolutely ludicrous, and the GMs should step in and step on the fucktards who think this is reasonable. But...

All the casuals want is that sweet sweet ntov loot, but have no desire to compete with A/A to get it. They will band together, petition for future raid summits, and sirken to try and create a new walled garden C/R system to get that ntov loot.

...you clearly didn't understand it the first time, and continue to blow this complete bullshit out your arse.

[Swish]

I'm not sure who exactly you're nerdraging at here. But I'm in a "casual" guild...
__________________
Trollolololol - 60 Shaman <BDA Scum>

Typical casuals. Always reaching ever farther with their palms outstretched.
__________________
Vetus ~ Tyrs ~ Draoi ~ Audios
<Bregan D'Aerth>

http://i.imgur.com/w1KgnMO.gif

[jcr4990]

http://i.imgur.com/w1KgnMO.gifI put casual in quotes. I don't know if BDA is casual or not these days according to RNF. It changes from day to day.

[Turp]

I'm not sure who exactly you're nerdraging at here. But I'm in a "casual" guild and reducing variance was basically the #1 thing on my list of things I hoped would come from the raid summit. From nearly everyone I talked to in my guild and others it was consistently a top 3 idea that they wanted to see implemented. What I was told is that staff said it's not in the cards and they're happy with the current variance. The summit was specifically to discuss rule changes and nothing was going to change that required coding changes to the server itself (Reduce Variance/Automated Sim Repops.etc) even if the vast majority of the server agrees those kind of changes are what's really needed it's not likely to change.

Wait man...
I clearly stated I did not know BDA position. But let the rest of them try to say they wanted lower variance. because it is 100% bullshit and ill wait till i feel like it and post their dumb ass responses to my legit message on why variance lower would help them and why fighting for racing and repops would not work. I literally laid them out plans in black in white, including chest (AND I said in a earlier post that he was the only one who did not respond and i didn't know where you guys stood, but very glad to know at least one of the guilds over there is got common sense. It is basic shit)
Maybe I can help but really when you see how the other leaders feel on lower variance you will see why it might be a no hope situation. And if it is, I'm sorry for your guild. It is not the 2 top guilds fault. It is the other guilds like OMNI who fought for repops and rotations and fought against pushing for variance and getting you the end result of...races.

[JurisDictum]

Casual = not in A/A in this context...its a hazy definition.

[jcr4990]

Casual = not in A/A in this context...its a hazy definition.Yea I sorta feel like anything below the A/A line is kinda in the casual category. BDA is sort of on the edge I feel like. But what do I know.

[Pokesan]

BDA is neither casual nor hardcore, existing in a state of quantum hell between the two

please change your sigs to reflect this thank you

[Swish]

"Not casual, not hardcore... but we'll make our minds up to be casual if another rotation appears" is the answer you're looking for.

[JurisDictum]

I did feel bad watching BDA show up for that one quake months back. You guys got yelled at for some BS on the zone in and then just tried to pull Ikatiar and accidentally trained yourselves. A/A seemed to nudge you out by threat of petition (I in no way know that though, that's just what it looked like from the outside).

You guys left soon after which was kind of sad. It's not like anyone would have missed the Ikatiar pixils that damn much.

[arsenalpow]

I did feel bad watching BDA show up for that one quake months back. You guys got yelled at for some BS on the zone in and then just tried to pull Ikatiar and accidentally trained yourselves. A/A seemed to nudge you out by threat of petition (I in no way know that though, that's just what it looked like from the outside).

You guys left soon after which was kind of sad. It's not like anyone would have missed the Ikatiar pixils that damn much.

Uhhh we had Ikatiar at like 40% and Forsaken was pulling triplets down to the entrance which fucking steamrolled us. For our troubles Sirken suspended them for two Ikatiars, which Asgard killed instead. Justice (I think)

[Turp]

I don't think there'll be a Class C / Class R system after last time.

That is because the GM and staff seen how much whiny bitches they are. Give em a inch, they want a mile. Give the mile, they want the world. Type mentallity.

They can't even do basic thought process to realize lowering variance would do MORE for them than a rotated mob every 3 months way more.
While also giving them some feeling of accomplishment or at least not feeling like a little bitch baby being spoon fed.



Where you trolls at , server chat ? Are you lost guys...awww...nah, your just scared.:D

[Mistle]

BDA made up for it last quake where somehow all the drama happened wherever BDA wasn't. Zonein trains in ToV and that ridiculous stall on Tormax... BDA was in VP and at Dain, and by the time BDA arrived in ToV it was all quiet and pretty cordial with Aftermath and everything was worked out in a mature fashion with alternating pulltrains.

[Turp]

Uhhh we had Ikatiar at like 40% and Forsaken was pulling triplets down to the entrance which fucking steamrolled us. For our troubles Sirken suspended them for two Ikatiars, which Asgard killed instead. Justice (I think)

Lol ok that is a little fucked. You was the master pusher (THE FACE) on class R otation though. So I am sure you can understand getting some flak from the other side.
Sorry about the rule lawyers. We really want no rules (which we both know , is all bad for you guys) But than casuals go in, and they Knew. Just like I messaged you i also did them. I said if they fight for mass repops or another rotation system they are gonna get races. And what did they do? They chose races instead of fighting to lower variance.

That being said... I am glad your guild BDA understands about how lower variance would stick A/A to picking and choosing and in the end you non hardcore guilds would reap the rewards. Literally the lower variance idea even still at a pretty big 8 or 10 hours. Even THAT would be more than rotating a mob every 3 months. Why will you not go public for lower variance and explain to the casual friends you allied with for the class system that it would benefit them and it is possible.
Did they all turn against you ? If they did , FUCK EM. You stop fighting A/A and join the cause. If staff sees BDA and A/A getting along maybe they will see the other guilds are doing exactly what ended their old rotation system. Which is bitch about everything and want more.
It is not joining the dark side . It is common sense brother , we are tired of staying up late and in return will give you bunch of mobs. And really just you. Cause if it happens at this point after they could of had it but didn't want it. If it does happen. I hope BDA goes ham (which u guys wouldn't but really should) and that means Velious mobs included. (yes 2 guilds no matter how hardcore cannot lock it all down if variance was lowered , but you can guarantee we lock you guys out of races keeping 16 hour variance.). But yet these guys continue to bitch about more repops (wont happen) rotation (been there done that, nope) instead. What the hell are those guys on? You was their master at one time. Whats going on here...

[Pokesan]

That is because the GM and staff seen how much whiny bitches they are. Give em a inch, they want a mile. Give the mile, they want the world. Type mentallity.

They can't even do basic thought process to realize lowering variance would do MORE for them than a rotated mob every 3 months way more.
While also giving them some feeling of accomplishment or at least not feeling like a little bitch baby being spoon fed.



Where you trolls at , server chat ? Are you lost guys...awww...nah, your just scared.:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPlvkyS1gy0&t=12s

[khysanth]

I'm pretty sick of the casual/hardcore binary nomenclature.

This binary is the product of broader conflation of casual and hardcore. For one thing, casual itself isn't as cut and dry as many think. For example, some people are born casual (though, to be clear, this wouldn't necessarily bear on such an individual's raid identity).

It's often said that casual is what's between your legs and hardcore is what's between your ears. Although these categories are related, they don't neatly align for everyone. Casual runs along a broad spectrum of possibilities, and constricting raiding lifestyle options to only "casual" and "hardcore" inhibits the expression of this range of identities. A variety of common descriptors, such as hard-cas, soft-hard, and raid fluid, may more accurately describe an individual's play style.

[Ciroco]

I am so unbelievably triggered

[Culkasi]

I am one of the "leaders" of the casual guilds. I did not push for races, I have no opinions on variance (as long as you guys are willing to do what you are willing to do, 10 min variance or 16 hour variance only affects how many mobs you are able to do without burning out), and stop talking like you know what we want or don't want Turp. Thank you.

[AzzarTheGod]

Uhhh we had Ikatiar at like 40% and Forsaken was pulling triplets down to the entrance which fucking steamrolled us. For our troubles Sirken suspended them for two Ikatiars, which Asgard killed instead. Justice (I think)

hmmmm

[ArumTP]

90% certain foot races came from Daldaen/Awakened.

It occurred after aftermath I think got 2 consecutive AoWs? It was brought to us the next cycle as hey we're going to try this. Members saw it was complete bullshit after 2 spawn cycles of racing, as it required significant member resources to secure statue(alot of runners) vs just a guy Cothing and tagging. After that aftermath went back to Cothing, but soon after, the rules changed and became raid rules to race.

[Sweettouch]

Brainwashed idiots like Turp and Arum are a good part of the issue with the raiding scene. Have fun sitting for 16hours ya losers

[Turp]

I am one of the "leaders" of the casual guilds. I did not push for races, I have no opinions on variance (as long as you guys are willing to do what you are willing to do, 10 min variance or 16 hour variance only affects how many mobs you are able to do without burning out), and stop talking like you know what we want or don't want Turp. Thank you.

To early...
-First off you have "No opinion on variance" than go in THE NEXT sentence with your opinion . An opinion that says basically that you would not want variance lower.
(lie much?) You tell your members this? It is false.
After what I read last night I'm sure some people will believe you just so they can argue. But anyone with thinking capacity can see threw the bullshit. Hoping that A/A burns out...not gonna happen. GL tho and enjoy racing. You did push for it but not directly. and I already said this last night 2-3 times in different posts here L2r. By pushing for repop ideas or rotations you indirectly got races instead.
-Second are you not in a 3 way guild where all 3 raid together? If so 2/3 say they do not want lower variance in PM and want repops or rotation. Than your post pretty well confirms your stance. So can easily come to the conclusion where it is 3/3 than.
It is pretty clear where you guys stand.
You are wrong because with variance lower , every week the mobs would all spawn back to back all over. It would force a pick and choose scenario. But I really have no reason to try to help you guys anymore I dunno why I even tried. I can win in variance... can you? Good luck ill post the pics later. Thanks for responding.

[Turp]

Brainwashed idiots like Turp and Arum are a good part of the issue with the raiding scene. Have fun sitting for 16hours ya losers
Brainwashed....ook By who? Common sense?
You typed up baseless insults and no reasoning.
You are the one brainwashed if you believe that a lower variance would only help A/A.

[Culkasi]

You are a very very angry person Turp. Its a game, please remember that, for your own sake :)
I just tried to tell you (and everyone else) that Europa hasn't pushed for this, in any way, but the way I see it, its not really better or worse than what happened before. As long as AA wants to kill every single mob every single week, thats going to happen, no matter what rules or regulations we try to create (sans a rotation sort situation).
I really don't have an opinion on the variance, I don't think it changes anything, so you can make it whatever arbitrary number you want for all I care.

[Turp]

You are a very very angry person Turp. Its a game, please remember that, for your own sake :)
I just tried to tell you (and everyone else) that Europa hasn't pushed for this, in any way, but the way I see it, its not really better or worse than what happened before. As long as AA wants to kill every single mob every single week, thats going to happen, no matter what rules or regulations we try to create (sans a rotation sort situation).
I really don't have an opinion on the variance, I don't think it changes anything, so you can make it whatever arbitrary number you want for all I care.
Nice question dodge on my response.
So this will be the last response you get from me.
Not angry. Over it. If you was trying to help people and they try to say it wouldn't help them and spout off non sense you would feel over it too.
There are countless scenarios that would happen weekly where a lower variance would benefit the smaller guilds but keep the blinders on.

There you are mentioning a rotation in the public as a only resort.

Has to be a case of a person in denial on your "no" opinion on variance. Read what you wrote the previous post. It is a opinion on variance. 2+2

This is rants and flames. Made to rant and flame. If you wanted to talk serious you could of addressed this in my server chat post where I would kindly explain things.

[Swish]

To early...
-First off you have "No opinion on variance" than go in THE NEXT sentence with your opinion . An opinion that says basically that you would not want variance lower.
(lie much?) You tell your members this? It is false.
After what I read last night I'm sure some people will believe you just so they can argue. But anyone with thinking capacity can see threw the bullshit. Hoping that A/A burns out...not gonna happen. GL tho and enjoy racing. You did push for it but not directly. and I already said this last night 2-3 times in different posts here L2r. By pushing for repop ideas or rotations you indirectly got races instead.
-Second are you not in a 3 way guild where all 3 raid together? If so 2/3 say they do not want lower variance in PM and want repops or rotation. Than your post pretty well confirms your stance. So can easily come to the conclusion where it is 3/3 than.
It is pretty clear where you guys stand.
You are wrong because with variance lower , every week the mobs would all spawn back to back all over. It would force a pick and choose scenario. But I really have no reason to try to help you guys anymore I dunno why I even tried. I can win in variance... can you? Good luck ill post the pics later. Thanks for responding.

You're so immersed it's painful to see - someone help this man :(

[Llodd]

You are damn wrong. A/A would gladly take lower variance , even though it helps casuals. The shit is not fun. Play both sides before ya speak.
I have spoke to leaders and officers of your casual guild and literraly damn near begged them and explained to them how lower variance would help them. And they fought me. Not A/A . I am on no side. I am a ever crack junky. We are not here to attack you. and PLEASE when did TMO secretly agree (not make a public rant about it) to give away kunark/classic mobs for 3 or whatever weeks like A/A recently agreed to.

Top end is not the blood thirsty people of last few years, in fact most them are gone and just a few remain. Why do you think A/A just made an agreement to leave kunark and classic to the casuals for 3 or whatever weeks. Its because we hate you and want you to die? ... nope. Please remove head from ass and again see the bigger picture. The overwhelming majority of the people you speak of are GONE. They left when class R otation was forced.

#rant off

You do realise A/A agreeing to Braknars request to not kill kunark mobs for 3 weeks means absolutely nothing? In fact I'd love for Braknar to give his reasons for that in the first place. Perhaps he wanted to see if he could have influence over you. I dont know. What seems to be the case is that it came from him and not from A/A .

anyway you missed the point being made by myself and just about everyone who reads the turgid crap that Arum and others put forth, and that is the attitude that permeates those guilds. Because of this, short of a rotation of some sort there really is no solution to the raid scene on p99. Its not about lowering variance or earthquakes - sure those may or may not help - but they really would merely be bandaids that cover the festering sore that is the current raid scene.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

http://i.imgur.com/Y3VmsIz.jpg

[FatMice]

You do realise A/A agreeing to Braknars request to not kill kunark mobs for 3 weeks means absolutely nothing? In fact I'd love for Braknar to give his reasons for that in the first place. Perhaps he wanted to see if he could have influence over you. I dont know. What seems to be the case is that it came from him and not from A/A .

anyway you missed the point being made by myself and just about everyone who reads the turgid crap that Arum and others put forth, and that is the attitude that permeates those guilds. Because of this, short of a rotation of some sort there really is no solution to the raid scene on p99. Its not about lowering variance or earthquakes - sure those may or may not help - but they really would merely be bandaids that cover the festering sore that is the current raid scene.

Cause this repop didn't help the overall server? If anything the current rule-set has easily leveled the playing field. Don't think so? Then I suggest you focus on what you and you're guild is doing and not A/A or anyone else.

[Llodd]

Cause this repop didn't help the overall server? If anything the current rule-set has easily leveled the playing field. Don't think so? Then I suggest you focus on what you and you're guild is doing and not A/A or anyone else.

What an odd thing to say. It's like you read something completely different to what I actually said.

[FatMice]

Read your last sentence. If you really think there is an enormous un-treatable gash, sore, festering wound on this server why do you play here?

The last two repops were great for all guilds. But fuck it? Let's keep bitching an moaning the world is fucking perfect; that's the way it will really get fixed!

[Llodd]

Read your last sentence. If you really think there is an enormous un-treatable gash, sore, festering wound on this server why do you play here?

The last two repops were great for all guilds. But fuck it? Let's keep bitching an moaning the world is fucking perfect; that's the way it will really get fixed!

Where did I say it was untreatable? Again with the reading comprehension.

As to why do I play here. It's the best classic eq emu around. Simple really.

[arsenalpow]

Read your last sentence. If you really think there is an enormous un-treatable gash, sore, festering wound on this server why do you play here?

The last two repops were great for all guilds. But fuck it? Let's keep bitching an moaning the world is fucking perfect; that's the way it will really get fixed!

I wouldn't say they were great for all guilds. We got some lessor ToV targets last time, Div/Anon got some last night. That's not really a massive swing from the current establishment. I think it did prove that repops are what makes the raid scene more tenable. I think everyone agrees with that.

[FatMice]

Nice observation Chest.

[Culkasi]

They were pretty crappy for European guilds :)

[FatMice]

Where did I say it was untreatable? Again with the reading comprehension.

As to why do I play here. It's the best classic eq emu around. Simple really.

You are basically repeating BDA rhetoric regarding server health. But yea, it's my reading comprehension that is off.

[Llodd]

You are basically repeating BDA rhetoric regarding server health. But yea, it's my reading comprehension that is off.

Atleast you're man enough to admit it. kudos.

Just be aware that it's not only bda that may view the server that way; it isn't their 'rhetoric' alone, they are just the loudest. And do try to stop confusing the raid scene with the server as a whole.

[FatMice]

I don't see anyone else jumping around early moaning bitching in peoples guild threads after the repop. Maybe Chest just wanted to merge with Aftermath.

[arsenalpow]

They were pretty crappy for European guilds :)
I'd say the casual guilds that pushed their bedtimes to make some kills happen are hating themselves this morning. I know I missed that extra 3 hours of sleep.


You are basically repeating BDA rhetoric regarding server health. But yea, it's my reading comprehension that is off.
The server isn't healthy. A/A is at the top looking down, or course it's going to look fine from that vantage point. The lengths you guys are going to in order to secure kills is absurd. People in A/A have even said as much.

Let's look at some shitty dragons that barely even qualify as NToV quality like Ikatiar or Eashen. BDA has killed 1 Eashen, 3 Ikatiars. That's it. Div/Anon scored their first Eashen, and I don't think they've killed any Ikkys. So 5 times out of a possible 100+ has a guild not named Awakened or Aftermath killed two of the shittier dragons in ToV (yes I know Eashen has gross loot, but he's hardly a NToV dragon, he's a pushover) and when I say A/A I mean its potential parts like Taken or Rampage or Forsaken or Asgard

How bout Doze? 1 kill for BDA. I doubt there's any other non A/A kills. Yelinak? We only attempted him for the first time last night, we wiped because we can't count to 120 seconds. Zlan? No one but A/A.

What I'm trying to say is there isn't a path of progression really. The raid scene is locked the fuck down, and the only thing that allows a 3rd party into ToV is a mass Vulak concession of targets. I wouldn't call that healthy.

[FatMice]

Yes. I have heard you're spiel too many times now. But now literally with less than 24 hours since a repop you're at it again.

If you don't like that A/A got Zlandi go down get him!

Or Chest you could have had a runner making his way up to Vulak and getting that FTE.

Seems you'd rather complain than compete.

[arsenalpow]

Yes. I have heard you're spiel too many times now. But now literally with less than 24 hours since a repop you're at it again.

If you don't like that A/A got Zlandi go down get him!

Or Chest you could have had a runner making his way up to Vulak and getting that FTE.

Seems you'd rather complain than compete.

Yes, I've heard the spiel too, work harder, earn it, croot and contest, git guud.

Am I happy there was a repop? Yes.
Did BDA kill some shit? Yes.
Am I satisfied with the raid scene on p99? No.

Stop conflating things. These points can be mutually exclusive.

[FatMice]

Stop conflating things. These points can be mutually exclusive.

The tl;dr of your previous post reads:

BDA killed some dragons. Raid scene is locked down. Server sucks.

[arsenalpow]

The tl;dr of your previous post reads:

BDA killed some dragons. Raid scene is locked down. Server sucks.

You are bad at reading comprehension.

[Legday]

How many different p1999 forum threads will Chest go to and complain this morning. Currently sitting at (at least) 3. I'm thinking 5 is a reasonable over/under.

Also Eashen is one of the best loot pinatas in the game. Probably 2nd best mob in North.

[Gimp]

Eashen drops several BiS or close to BiS items.

You're right about Iki though, he's worthless for the most part.

[arsenalpow]

I said Eashen had gross loot. My point was that he isn't a true NToV dragon based on the fact that he's a goddamn pushover. The goal of the post though was to show that ToV is locked the fuck down essentially which doesn't really make me think the raid scene is healthy.

[Gimp]

What does him being a pushover have anything to do with your argument? Everything in ToV not named Vulak or Vyemm is easy.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

The sun is shining, it's a lovely day. It won't be long before we're on our way. The guard is waiting, flag in hand. He blows his whistle, we're off to sea and sand. The sky is blue, there's not a cloud in sight, So much excitement, didn't sleep all night. Now Percy's rushing trough the countryside, With people waving as we (peep peep) whistle by.

Seaside, we're off to the seaside. Ice cream in cones, Candy floss on your nose. Seaside, we're off to the seaside, We're gonna have a lovely day.

Just one more hill to climb and we'll be there. Sounds of the seaside start to fill the air. Then someone shouts out excitedly "Look over there, everybody, I can see the sea!"

Seaside, we're off to the seaside, Buckets and spades, all the fairground arcades. Seaside, we're off to the seaside, We're gonna have a lovely day.

And when it's cold in wintertime, Still you can be there any time. Just close your eyes, count 1-2-3, Dream your dream and once again be by the sea.

Sir Topham Hatt arrives to greet the train. He is so pleased that Percy's right on time. So much excitement, so much glee. We're all together with Percy by the sea.

Seaside, we're all at the seaside, Building sandcastles with buckets and spades. Seaside, we're all at the seaside. Oh, what a lovely, lovely, day.

Seaside, we're all at the seaside, Picnics and paddling, swimming all day. Seaside, we're all at the seaside, Oh, what a lovely, lovely day.

Thank you, Percy, for such a lovely day. Hooray!

[FatMice]

Since my reading comprehension is so bad lets see if I understand your latest post....

Chest thinks the loot from some mobs in NToV is shit. So Chest and BDA would rather contest VP to get better loot!

How did I do?

[Vorkon]

Dearest Abigail,

Our RnF campaign has come to end, and I shall be home soon, weary and bloodied but alive. That is the best news I can offer. It is nothing to take for granted even amid the weight of such disappointment and sadness.

We are defeated but not broken.

Salute these brave lads. Limp and lame, we will march through the gates of the Guild Discussion boards with heads held high. Nothing I might say in tribute to these boys can adequately express how proud I am of each man and our collective RnF effort.

-Chest

[khysanth]

A/A deflection team in full force already

[EvilQuest]

Lotta late nite pixel brain rot goin around in here.

[FatMice]

Lotta late nite pixel brain rot goin around in here.

That's for sure.

[Thiefboy777]

What does him being a pushover have anything to do with your argument? Everything in ToV not named Vulak or Vyemm is easy.

Vyemm is the only "somewhat" challenging mob in ToV the rest are gaurunteed kills if you get them in camp 99.999% of the time

[Kodim]

Nothing is challenging when you roll 18 clerics deep on repop day.

Getting shit killed at 4AM though makes some fights really interesting.

[Raev]

Chest I have no idea what you are complaining about. Two rumbles in the past month is excellent. BDA, Anonymous, and Divinity all got to kill stuff they would normally have zero chance at. Eashen has probably . . the 4th? best loot table in TOV after Vulak/Vyemm/Dozekar. The Fist and Claw of Lightning are really excellent and he has some other good stuff as well. The loot pinata mobs really gave it up for Team Monk too (2x Abashi's, Monkpants).

I'm kinda surprised Aftermath killed Nag/Vox (I'm pretty sure I heard someone say we couldn't kill them in TS before I turned on the Mozart again) but <shrug> I'm sure your flaming them on the forums will make them reconsider their actions.

Is it perfect? No. But it's a huge sign that the staff is trying to put some more effort into making the raid scene work again after getting so burnt out post Velious. That's tremendously positive, and for a free server we can't complain.

TLDR: stop looking a gift horse in the mouth.

P.S. To make you feel better, I'll lead a Ring War for BDA. I have a strategy I'm pretty sure can win with <50 players. I'll take the DA earring and FT1 neck; you can get the ring and all the rest. Serious offer.

[arsenalpow]

Saw some really deep raid forces last night. Aftermath at their usual 100 or more, Awakened had almost 80 at Yelinak from what I remember, and Anonymity were pushing 80 at least. I'm sure CSG was rolling deep too but I never came across them.

[Gimp]

Awakened and Aftermath both had over 100. I like how you never acknowledge that.

[Culkasi]

Saw some really deep raid forces last night. Aftermath at their usual 100 or more, Awakened had almost 80 at Yelinak from what I remember, and Anonymity were pushing 80 at least. I'm sure CSG was rolling deep too but I never came across them.

we weren't that deep, Europa and Omni had very few people online as it was the middle of the night, so CSG was mostly AG last night

[arsenalpow]

Loraen I'm not trying to be a naysayer but again your perspective is going to be wildly different because you're at the top of the food chain. I think if you list out everything that died in Velious during those repops you'll see that not much actually changed.

Quakes make things slightly better, but it's still nowhere near viable for anyone not named Awakened or Aftermath.

[arsenalpow]

Awakened and Aftermath both had over 100. I like how you never acknowledge that.

We only saw them at Yelinak after we had to bail on our attempt at 45% or something. They cleaned up quickly, but at that point they were rolling about 80 deep.

BDA had 50 in VP, like 70 at Dain, 60 at Yelinak, then 50 at Klandicar. People kept leaving for bed lol.

[Raev]

Loraen I'm not trying to be a naysayer but again your perspective is going to be wildly different because you're at the top of the food chain. I think if you list out everything that died in Velious during those repops you'll see that not much actually changed.

I don't think so. Eashen, Nev, and Dain would normally be killed by A/A 95% of the time. Besides, I'm sure you guys will get better with practice.

Cloki and I have always looked at this differently. He sees it as a pure resource distribution problem. I am fine with one guild getting everything as long as the method of competition isn't total shit. And there was no polesitting/linoleum peel watching going on last night. It was just about who could kill stuff faster.

Our DKP site claims we had 115 for Vulak, heh. By that time the rumble was in full swing. Aftermath usually runs about 20% more than we do.

P.S. Serious offer to do a ring war!

P.P.S. Time to get some work done, have fun flaming each other into oblivion pals

[Turp]

You're so immersed it's painful to see - someone help this man :(

lol....


Posts: 13,718


get real bitch. and look in the mirror.

[Spyder73]

Loraen I'm not trying to be a naysayer but again your perspective is going to be wildly different because you're at the top of the food chain. I think if you list out everything that died in Velious during those repops you'll see that not much actually changed.

Quakes make things slightly better, but it's still nowhere near viable for anyone not named Awakened or Aftermath.

Oh how the mighty have fallen. BDA finally getting a taste of the turd pie they helped to cook up in the first place. I wish I could have seen you in Vegas...passed out with your pants around your ankles after you fell into a meat coma immediately after the all you can eat hotdog buffet...the momentary flicker of shame when you made eye contact with yourself in the mirror before having to turn away.

[arsenalpow]

Oh how the mighty have fallen. BDA finally getting a taste of the turd pie they helped to cook up in the first place. I wish I could have seen you in Vegas...passed out with your pants around your ankles after you fell into a meat coma immediately after the all you can eat hotdog buffet...the momentary flicker of shame when you made eye contact with yourself in the mirror before having to turn away.

I want to congratulate you on making a post without the words cuck or tranny. Way to step your game up.

[Spyder73]

I want to congratulate you on making a post without the words cuck or tranny. Way to step your game up.

[Loke]

We should probably make a rotation, because we all saw how class R rotation was a paragon of fair play and inclusiveness. Taken and BDA totally didn't try to block out smaller guilds and protect their welfare pixels. I'm sure it would solve all our problems.

Better yet, lets just do away with the hassle of killing mobs and instead just meet up weekly in EC where the GMs can fairly distribute the loot that would have dropped that week.

[JurisDictum]

We should probably make a rotation, because we all saw how class R rotation was a paragon of fair play and inclusiveness. Taken and BDA totally didn't try to block out smaller guilds and protect their welfare pixels. I'm sure it would solve all our problems.


But then all you have to do is beat BDA to get the best pixils in the game. Keep in mind if most the important targets were only raided once every six weeks, it gives casuals a lot of time to prep. I doubt BDA is going to lock down everything. Even BDA and CSG together probably can't prevent other guilds from getting a single mob depending on the variance in question.

One of the main things that separates casual guilds from competitive ones is their ability to mobilize and pull quickly.

The staff seems to think to some kind of voluntary rotation where the two top guilds completely agree to give pixils to non competitive guilds is the only fair way to implement such a system.

I don't like voluntary solutions because they never work. Voluntary solutions only work when the people in power happen to be enlightened and are sympathetic to those that aren't in power. This is very rare because if you give someone an opportunity to feel superior, they usually take it. Even if they are sympathetic at first, some bad experiences might change their mind.

One of my favorite quotes from the extremely libertarian minded James Madison is: ‘If men were angels, no government would be necessary.’

[Maner]

We only saw them at Yelinak after we had to bail on our attempt at 45% or something. They cleaned up quickly, but at that point they were rolling about 80 deep.

BDA had 50 in VP, like 70 at Dain, 60 at Yelinak, then 50 at Klandicar. People kept leaving for bed lol.

So in reality, it was the choices of your own guild members that stopped you from killing more not the "top guilds"? Seems like you should be bitching at the lack of dedication in your own guild forums not on RnF.

[Pokesan]

they're just gonna shout 'PERSISTENCE DEDICATION EFFORT!!!' at you until your head explodes, despite those words really not applying to sitting in a chair playing a game

go play tummy sticks instead :)

[Ciroco]

So in reality, it was the choices of your own guild members that stopped you from killing more not the "top guilds"? Seems like you should be bitching at the lack of dedication in your own guild forums not on RnF.

I don't think anyone is upset with how things go during earthquakes or server resets (except Europa and Omni because they tend to happen during US primetime), which is why it's annoying that we can't just have them at the frequency they were originally promised.

[Freakish]

Eashan isn't a Dragon it's a drake. Ikitair is a wyvern and Dagarn is a wurm. Learn to EQ better nerds.

[Loke]

But then all you have to do is beat BDA to get the best pixils in the game. Keep in mind if most the important targets were only raided once every six weeks, it gives casuals a lot of time to prep. I doubt BDA is going to lock down everything. Even BDA and CSG together probably can't prevent other guilds from getting a single mob depending on the variance in question.

Old system - lose most mobs to A / A
New system - lose most mobs to BDA / CSG

The only people that would really benefit from that is BDA and CSG. It wouldn't improve the raid scene, just provide welfare pixels to 2 guilds while the vast majority of guilds still fight for table scraps.

I was being mostly facetious in my post. I see no reason why loot or mobs should be distributed with equity. Rotations on older content (or even top guilds not engaging kunark mobs) seems okay, but end game content being dominated by top tier guilds is as classic as TMO wiping on fear breaks. I was simply pointing out that claims from BDA about "fixing the raid scene" have in the past really been a guise for them to allocate more uncontested content to themselves. Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

[Man0warr]

How did anyone lose pixels with a rotation? That's the whole point of a rotation. No one lost shit to BDA/Taken/Divinity in Class R for the entire year the rotation was active.

No guild was denied access to the rotation, as long they went to the end of the line when joining. If they didn't want to play by the rotation rules that 8+ other guilds were following, then they were on their own.

It wasn't until the rotation broke down a couple months before Velious that Class R became a 3-guild rotation.

[Loke]

I seem to remember BDA and Taken attempting to institute some sort of kill requirement to join the rotation. Too lazy to find a source, but I specifically remember smaller guilds scoffing of the idea that they'd need to kill gore to enter the rotation on common footing. Memory is a bit rough, but I think it had something to do with splitting the Kunark mobs into two tiers, and killing Gore would have been the mob necessary to enter the tier with all the good mobs.

[zanderklocke]

But guilds should be able to kill Gorenaire to be able to attempt Maestro!

[zanderklocke]

Okay I liked. You had to kill Talendor before you could attempt Maestro.

http://galleries.guildlaunch.net/283719/Proposal_21501Pop.png

That was the second version though. This was the first version:

http://galleries.guildlaunch.net/283719/proposal_19291Pop.png

[zanderklocke]

Okay I lied. You had to kill Talendor before you could attempt Maestro.

http://galleries.guildlaunch.net/283719/Proposal_21501Pop.png

That was the second version though. This was the first version:

http://galleries.guildlaunch.net/283719/proposal_19291Pop.png

[Detoxx]

Need to kill Sontalak and AoW back to back to get in on the Wuoshi, Vindi, Velk and Kelorek Dar rotation!

[JurisDictum]

Old system - lose most mobs to A / A
New system - lose most mobs to BDA / CSG

The only people that would really benefit from that is BDA and CSG. It wouldn't improve the raid scene, just provide welfare pixels to 2 guilds while the vast majority of guilds still fight for table scraps.

I was being mostly facetious in my post. I see no reason why loot or mobs should be distributed with equity. Rotations on older content (or even top guilds not engaging kunark mobs) seems okay, but end game content being dominated by top tier guilds is as classic as TMO wiping on fear breaks. I was simply pointing out that claims from BDA about "fixing the raid scene" have in the past really been a guise for them to allocate more uncontested content to themselves. Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

If you have aggressively compete for them, they aren't welfare pixils. I'm proposing divisions of competition so that the bar to compete at the lesser tier (which is rewarded much less) is somewhat reasonable. This is because not everyone on the server can be in the top guilds.

Most MMOs don't have you compete with other players for pixils for obvious reasons. If you had to beat someone who could potentially throwing their life away on a game every time you wanted a serious upgrade -- there would be no game industry. This game itself wouldn't exist because not enough people would pay money to buy it.

This server has maybe 1000 people on it at a time, and most of them don't like this server once it gets to the raid scene. These are the most hardcore classic EQ fanatics you can find on the internet and most them say "raid scene is shit."

[Spyder73]

I was simply pointing out that claims from BDA about "fixing the raid scene" have in the past really been a guise for them to allocate more uncontested content to themselves

Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

[dafier]

depiction of this thread...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1b/d6/91/1bd6916cfc504f126f4391878c74e6d9.jpg

[Loke]

You couldnt have just gone ahead and corrected my typo there Spyder? Come on!

Also, gracias for doing the research I was too lazy to do Zander. Doing the Lord's work my man.

[jcr4990]

I'm all for a rotation with no barrier to entry. Brb forming <Bregan D'Aerth2>

Hey BDA wanna form an "alliance" and get 2 rotation slots?

[zanderklocke]

Their rotation became a farce he second they started enacting artificial barriers of entry to stiffle potential competition.

Who said that originally?

[JurisDictum]

I find problems with obvious solutions boring. 1 week any guild that isn't A/A competes. If someone would rather take a thwack at A/As pixils, they can always join the C tier and try to compete, but then they can't go for the casual tier.

[zanderklocke]

I'm all for a rotation with no barrier to entry. Brb forming <Bregan D'Aerth2>

Hey BDA wanna form an "alliance" and get 2 rotation slots?

I always thought it would make sense for guild to have an alliance for some mobs and rotate all together but other mobs they could do individually if they wanted/were capable. I guess I can understand where guilds that didn't need to ally were coming from, but it was always weird to me that if you had to ally to do Gorenaire, people wanted you to ally to do Maestro. I think some guilds would have just preferred to not be included on the rotation list for Gorenaire or would rather have picked and chose their specific mobs to be on the rotation list for. However, the rotation was sort of like Comcast, and you had to get bundled packages instead of just picking and choosing the channels you wanted.

However, that's neither here nor there at this point.

[Loke]

Who said that originally?

Think he just messed up the format quoting me. The sentence he repeated was the last sentence of one of my posts in this thread.

[zanderklocke]

God, my grammar was horrible in my last post.

[Phantasm]

Why do the casuals deserve free pixels? There are levels of depravity reached on this server that is abdolutely sickening.

If these people want to spent 16 hours waiting for a flash of wings/teeth to appear let them be rewarded for it. We've seen multiple generations of these nerds come and go.

Rotations dont appeal to me, equal competitive statutes are the way to go. If you want end game, you know which guilds experience it on a weekly basis. Else wise, pull up those boot straps, tighten them laces, and win your guild an hour to kill highly sought after pixels

Also, why do people keep spelling pixels wrong in this thread? Is pixils some kind of Euro thing or just stupidity?

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Also, why do people keep spelling pixels wrong in this thread? Is pixils some kind of Euro thing or just stupidity?

Its the metric system for measuring pixels.

[JurisDictum]

Why do the casuals deserve free pixels? There are levels of depravity reached on this server that is abdolutely sickening.

If these people want to spent 16 hours waiting for a flash of wings/teeth to appear let them be rewarded for it. We've seen multiple generations of these nerds come and go.

Rotations dont appeal to me, equal competitive statutes are the way to go. If you want end game, you know which guilds experience it on a weekly basis. Else wise, pull up those boot straps, tighten them laces, and win your guild an hour to kill highly sought after pixels

Also, why do people keep spelling pixels wrong in this thread? Is pixils some kind of Euro thing or just stupidity?

They aren't free. They still have to compete with each other a actually kill the mob.

The reason we should make it so 1/6 of the pixils are off limits to the hardcore, is because I believe the vast majority of people that play this GAME, want the GAME to work that way, so they will have more fun in the GAME.

Fact: a lot of people that oppose rotation were in no way instrumental to why A/A are in the position they are in, and have little justification for their sense of entitlement.

[FatMice]

Fact: a lot of people that oppose rotation were in no way instrumental to why A/A are in the position they are in, and have little justification for their sense of entitlement.

Maybe my reading comprehension is off. What does this mean?

[Freakish]

I hated C/R distinction. Class C should be casual and Class R should be raiders. Bugs me to no end.

[JurisDictum]

Maybe my reading comprehension is off. What does this mean?

It means that there are a lot of people that leech off trackers, leaders and FTE players in the top guilds, and then adopt this "they got to earn it" attitude about getting 1/6 the pixiles.

[FatMice]

It means that there are a lot of people that leech off trackers, leaders and FTE players in the top guilds, and then adopt this "they got to earn it" attitude about getting 1/6 the pixiles.

Yea but those people still have more merit than the people just asking for hand outs.

[Legday]

It means that there are a lot of people that leech off trackers, leaders and FTE players in the top guilds, and then adopt this "they got to earn it" attitude about getting 1/6 the pixiles.

In Aftermath we value the monk flopped AFK at the zone in for 7 hours on raid day just as much as we value Fifield.

This because we don't like Fifield.

[zanderklocke]

What is a handout in EverQuest?

Is the ability to engage a mob and the mobs leading up to it the original way the designers of the game intended, through a dungeon crawl, a handout?

The competition on this server is arbitrary. The expansions came out so fast on live that players were not impeding each other from trying to kill mobs. It was harder to get to 60 and have enough players for a raid force on the live timeline due to how fast the expansions came out.

What is considered competition here is not *actually* a real thing in the mechanics of the original game. It is a totally player created thing.

Somehow handout has been equated to playing the game as it was originally intended. A handout would be Sirken giving out items in the East Commonlands Tunnel.

Yes, some items should only be in the hands of top raid guilds, but I think this server has a warped idea of what that means. This is the fault of how many years this server it out and why non-progressive MMOs are actually not a good thing.

[JurisDictum]

Yea but those people still have more merit than the people just asking for hand outs.

Nope. They want you to think so but not really. Chest works a lot harder than these people. Any casual raid leader does.

[Phantasm]

So you think people that show up to their job and wait for handouts deserve a raise? I know its a poor analogy game/job bit that's the reality. You want people to be rewarded for simply waiting, when those willing are putting in very high levels of "competition" to secure the pixels for their guild mates and themselves sit back and do what?

If you want endgame join AA. Otherwise avenues have been created allowing entry to even the most casual of guilds.

Imagine if this shit was proposed during the TMO era of raid domination. Lol. Good luck convincing them to let casuals into VP. Same applies to ntov

[zanderklocke]

[QUOTE=zanderklocke;2244593]

Yes, some items should only be in the hands of top raid guilds, but I think this server has a warped idea of what that means. This is the fault of how many years this server is out and why non-progressive MMOs are actually not a good thing./QUOTE]

Also, as much as Chest's my way or the highway attitude is obnoxious, I tend to agree with most of his posts lately. I think his approach is pretty reasonable, and I commend his guild and the other guilds not willing to do the stuff the top guilds are doing.

[Man0warr]

I seem to remember BDA and Taken attempting to institute some sort of kill requirement to join the rotation. Too lazy to find a source, but I specifically remember smaller guilds scoffing of the idea that they'd need to kill gore to enter the rotation on common footing. Memory is a bit rough, but I think it had something to do with splitting the Kunark mobs into two tiers, and killing Gore would have been the mob necessary to enter the tier with all the good mobs.

That was right before Velious - it was an attempt at a reform to the rotation that had been in place that some guilds were taking advantage of.

It didn't end up mattering since Rogean/Sirken said the Class system was dead with Velious.

[zanderklocke]

[QUOTE=Phantasm;2244596]So you think people that show up to their job and wait for handouts deserve a raise? I know its a poor analogy game/job bit that's the reality. You want people to be rewarded for simply waiting, when those willing are putting in very high levels of "competition" to secure the pixels for their guild mates and themselves sit back and do what?
/QUOTE]

No, to your first question.

Why I'm saying is that calling this behavior competition is silly. It's not real competition. The 'waiting' is not competition. The run up, pulling mobs, FDing, or anything involving actually doing actions on the keyboard could be considered competition. Overall though, EQ is not a game designed for competition, and I feel bad for the people that have created this current 'competition' and the lifestyle that leads to success in this 'competition'.

I don't care who gets what on this server, but I feel bad for the people that are willing to stare at their screen for 10+ hours. There isn't a lot of human or life value added in that type of behavior. They are the real losers in this situation.

[JurisDictum]

To repeat what has been said a million times:

NToV as hardcore only made since on live, because no one else had to fucking time to be there. Now, that people do have time to be there that aren't hardcore, the idea of NToV being "hardcore only" doesn't work like it did. It only works for a subset of people with low self-esteem that love the idea they are getting pixils no one else can -- even though they want to!

It's always the god damn band-wagoners that pipe up first too. The people that did the least to get the most. That's how these people work, they have no separation between their personal interests and their server philosophy.

[Nibblewitz]

Your personal interests force me to question your server philosophy.

[Spyder73]

In Aftermath we value the monk flopped AFK at the zone in for 7 hours on raid day just as much as we value Fifield.

This is the nicest thing you have ever said to me Legday...

[Loke]

To repeat what has been said a million times:

NToV as hardcore only made since on live, because no one else had to fucking time to be there. Now, that people do have time to be there that aren't hardcore, the idea of NToV being "hardcore only" doesn't work like it did. It only works for a subset of people with low self-esteem that love the idea they are getting pixils no one else can -- even though they want to!

It's always the god damn band-wagoners that pipe up first too. The people that did the least to get the most. That's how these people work, they have no separation between their personal interests and their server philosophy.

I'm no proctologist, but I'm pretty sure you pulled this out of your ass.

[Swish]

It's always the god damn band-wagoners that pipe up first too. The people that did the least to get the most.

It is okay to have a job, an income, and a life outside of emulated elf sim. Just because you're lacking doesn't mean you're entitled to pixel lockdown.

[radditsu]

This is still happening?

[Juevento]

I personally enjoyed last nights repop. We got to kill some old favorites and give a good solid effort on some new mobs (Yelinak and Klandicar). The most fun I've had in the game in the past few months have been the two recent repops. Nothing in my mind beats having to scramble and organize a large group of folks to spots all over norrath to kill as many dargonz as you can. That's the good stuff.

Regular repops with variance literally has me contemplating quitting every week. That crap is soul crushing and only drives folks away from the game. This more than anything will kill this server eventually.

The competition aspect is a strange animal in this game. Sure it's classic to some extent, but there is an entire server for folks who want real competition in EQ. It's p99 red. In my mind, anyone who really wanted competition would be over there.

[Spyder73]

In my mind, anyone who really wanted competition would be over there.

In your mind... one will only find moth balls and nude images of Chest Rockwell looking down at you as he unzips.

[Pokesan]

In your mind... one will only find moth balls and nude images of Chest Rockwell looking down at you as he unzips.

In your mouth...you will find my balls

[Phantasm]

I think the raiding community, hardcore, casual and everything I between, should focus on what options are available to them and figure out the best way to utilize them.

Asking for changes to variance, repop frequency, and mentality of raiders is going to get you no where, fast.

While a lot of changes would be nice, the reality is they won't happen anytime soon. Its up to you to carve out the slice of p99 that fills you up.

Also, I desperately wish you were more creative Spyder. You come off as being the worst hype man ever. Please git guder

[Kagey]

i spy with my monk eye a vetus corpse at nexona

[Juevento]

i spy with my monk eye a vetus corpse at nexona

Lol. Bads gonna always bad. How you been Kagey?

[Phantasm]

i spy with my monk eye a vetus corpse at nexona

My corpse was dragged there and stayed there the duration of the repop. FML
Also, that whore elven dancer broke my train down FD with ignite ...
...

[Nibblewitz]

my train

A confession!

[Relbaic]

A confession!

We concede the mobs we weren't going after.

[Oleris]

not big on 30 minute countdown for server resets. It allows those that would not normally be able to compete a large window to get a force in place. Add in tagging a mob and waiting 45 minutes until you have to joint raid because your guild didn't show up.... I'm waiting for a TMO, Taken, Asgard, FE, A-team member FTE's a mob and gives it to another guild after such a period.

[Relbaic]

not big on 30 minute countdown for server resets. It allows those that would not normally be able to compete a large window to get a force in place. Add in tagging a mob and waiting 45 minutes until you have to joint raid because your guild didn't show up.... I'm waiting for a TMO, Taken, Asgard, FE, A-team member FTE's a mob and gives it to another guild after such a period.

Because the only people that play this game raid.

You're a moron.

[jcr4990]

not big on 30 minute countdown for server resets. It allows those that would not normally be able to compete a large window to get a force in place. Add in tagging a mob and waiting 45 minutes until you have to joint raid because your guild didn't show up.... I'm waiting for a TMO, Taken, Asgard, FE, A-team member FTE's a mob and gives it to another guild after such a period.

Basically you're "not big" on something that evens the playing field (even if its very slightly) for people with necks much less beardy than yours with socks that have significantly less poop in them. Big surprise there right? I personally am stunned at this shocking new discovery. Stay tuned for our next big news story: Rich white republicans are in favor of tax breaks for the rich.

Because the only people that play this game raid.

You're a moron.Oleris has never been quite the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Prismaticshop]

Itt BDA crying.

BDA crying since 2009.

#classic

[Pokesan]

Basically you're "not big" on something that evens the playing field (even if its very slightly) for people with necks much less beardy than yours with socks that have significantly less poop in them. Big surprise there right? I personally am stunned at this shocking new discovery. Stay tuned for our next big news story: Rich white republicans are in favor of tax breaks for the rich.

Oleris has never been quite the sharpest tool in the shed.

why they gotta be white?

[Phantasm]

why they gotta be white?

Why they gotta be any color?

[jcr4990]

why they gotta be white?
Why they gotta be any color?

https://i.imgur.com/tyTc1Nl.jpg

[Llodd]

Nothing is challenging when you roll 18 clerics deep on repop day.

Getting shit killed at 4AM though makes some fights really interesting.

Shits insane. This isnt the game we came to play guys:

[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Puyi (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Dannyl (Dwarf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Kustt (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Doxx (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Kaimandroth (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Nikkanu (Dark Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Filipe (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Carron (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Espada (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Arum (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Treeborn (Gnome) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Cilarya (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Tzen (Dark Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Taor (Dwarf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Beercan (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] <LINKDEAD>[60 High Priest] Tolpa (Halfling) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Klerik (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Cilienya (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Xerra (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Kushluk (Halfling) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Emkcil (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Happyhealz (Halfling) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Safehaven (Dark Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Madmoiselle (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Doraf (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [59 Templar] Euthanasic (Erudite) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Faumieni (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Halliel (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Gerhart (Dwarf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [54 Vicar] Volya (Halfling) <Awakened> LFG
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Calrizius (Halfling) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Enjamin (Erudite) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [52 Vicar] Fifeheals (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Innie (Dark Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Healier (Dark Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [57 Templar] Scifer (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Moosejaw (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Huddle (Dark Elf) <Awakened> LFG
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Aurelia (Dark Elf) <Aftermath>

[Llodd]

So you think people that show up to their job and wait for handouts deserve a raise? I know its a poor analogy game/job bit that's the reality. You want people to be rewarded for simply waiting, when those willing are putting in very high levels of "competition" to secure the pixels for their guild mates and themselves sit back and do what?

If you want endgame join AA. Otherwise avenues have been created allowing entry to even the most casual of guilds.

Imagine if this shit was proposed during the TMO era of raid domination. Lol. Good luck convincing them to let casuals into VP. Same applies to ntov

Can atleast respect TMO for being brutally honest; and Zealot in particular who quite openly would say that he'd play dirty or clean to make sure tmo and no one else got the pixels. a/a leadership make vague platitudes about wanting a better server, but rly its all just bollocks so long as they get their pixels.

[Swish]

Then you've got the other side like BDA trying to butter up A/A so that they can have a "casual" quote unquote... rotation.

All very amusing shit to watch.

[Nibblewitz]

Where's that TRO?

[Gimp]

We need a new thread, this one has run its course.

[JurisDictum]

I think 80% of pixils is enough for people that are willing to do anything. I come to this conclusion because if I ran a server like this, that is what I would do. It lets people opt for less pixils and a immersive experience, or choose the raid scene where most the pixils are.

80% isn't enough though. Most people are of the mind that it would be better if every single non A/A person left the server, rather than give up 20%

Makes you wonder why anyone on the server staff takes their opinion seriously

[Ciroco]

pixilspixilspixils

[snead]

GMs should just add a new command /BIS less arguments this way.

[Pokesan]

what an outlandish strawman

[jcr4990]

Shits insane. This isnt the game we came to play guys:

[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Puyi (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Dannyl (Dwarf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Kustt (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Doxx (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Kaimandroth (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Nikkanu (Dark Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Filipe (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Carron (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Espada (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Arum (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Treeborn (Gnome) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Cilarya (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Tzen (Dark Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Taor (Dwarf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Beercan (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] <LINKDEAD>[60 High Priest] Tolpa (Halfling) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Klerik (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Cilienya (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Xerra (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Kushluk (Halfling) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:10 2016] [60 High Priest] Emkcil (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Happyhealz (Halfling) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Safehaven (Dark Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Madmoiselle (High Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Doraf (Dwarf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [59 Templar] Euthanasic (Erudite) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Faumieni (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Halliel (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Gerhart (Dwarf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [54 Vicar] Volya (Halfling) <Awakened> LFG
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Calrizius (Halfling) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Enjamin (Erudite) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [52 Vicar] Fifeheals (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Innie (Dark Elf) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Healier (Dark Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [57 Templar] Scifer (High Elf) <Awakened>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Moosejaw (Human) <Aftermath>
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Huddle (Dark Elf) <Awakened> LFG
[Mon Apr 11 02:30:11 2016] [60 High Priest] Aurelia (Dark Elf) <Aftermath>

In case you were too lazy to count but wanted to know I counted for you. That's 39 total A/A clerics online at the same time with poopsocks at the ready in the quest for pixels. I typically say this sarcastically but this time I say it with the utmost sincerity: http://i.imgur.com/2P0GV.jpg

Seriously.. Get help..

[Spyder73]

Everyone logs in on a re-pop during prime time on a weekday? Yes we are seriously mental ill. You're a moron Trollofail.

[Cecily]

That's kinda bad ass they have that many clerics.

[Gimp]

I was playing one, because I'm a badass.

[Cecily]

Oh that's both retardedly similarly named guilds. Still quite a bit. Not as impressive. You guys should merge.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

Awakened or Aftermath ought to merge with BDA so they don't feel so left out.

[Sodors Finest Poster]

But then again, that'd be like South Korea absorbing the hungry masses of North Korea. BDA has too many starving pixel-mouths to feed.

[Kodim]

Im saddened by the lack of gnome clerics on that list.

wtf people

[maskedmelon]

Im saddened by the lack of gnome clerics on that list.

wtf people

I was going to roll one, but then learned they cannot follow EMar, so my theme was was DESTROUED

[Pokesan]

? those are high priests...?

[manguard]

https://i.imgur.com/RGD0Rjn.jpg

[Detoxx]

Awakened or Aftermath ought to merge with BDA so they don't feel so left out.

Chest just needs to admit he wants to be elf pals and grab a drink with me. We can be heroes chest, we can be heroes!

[AzzarTheGod]

id fear for my life detox is a psycho

[arsenalpow]

id fear for my life detox is a psycho

[AzzarTheGod]

^ hes that dude who seems really cool at first, you start cracking a few beers and chopping it up with im at the bar.

Then out of nowhere BOOM bipolar and says "You know what man? I don't like you. I'm really thinking about fucking you up right now".

Alcohol + detoxx..../shudder lol

[Detoxx]

^ hes that dude who seems really cool at first, you start cracking a few beers and chopping it up with im at the bar.

Then out of nowhere BOOM bipolar and says "You know what man? I don't like you. I'm really thinking about fucking you up right now".

Alcohol + detoxx..../shudder lol

That's an unfair assessment! I'm a happy drunk!

[JurisDictum]

That's an unfair assessment! I'm a happy drunk!

Confirmed.

There is a untrue rumor about Detoxx slipping guys mickys and raping them. There is no way that Detoxx would slip someone a micky and rape them. So whoever is saying Detoxx slips guys mickys and rapes them, needs to stop. Detoxx will absolutely not slip you a micky, and then rape you after you pass out back in his van.

[Gimp]

I'd get drunk with the Detard, just to outdrink and laugh at em

[Detoxx]

I'd get drunk with the Detard, just to outdrink and laugh at em

Can't fuck with them Alabama hicks, no argument there!

#wareagle

[Legday]

https://i.imgur.com/RGD0Rjn.jpg

Dudes calves look chiseled as fuck.

[Speedi]

Can't fuck with them Alabama hicks, no argument there!

#wareagle

uh, not all people from Alabama are Hicks!

On another note, your really an Auburn fan? I sure hope that was just a poke at gimp.

[arsenalpow]

Dudes calves look chiseled as fuck.

nah man, that's some cam whore angles to trick you

[Gimp]

uh, not all people from Alabama are Hicks!

On another note, your really an Auburn fan? I sure hope that was just a poke at gimp.

Fuck no he's not an Auburn fan, it's his one "dig" he has against me..even though Auburn sucks dick.

He's a NY Giants fan, so I guess he's the perfect transplant for an Auburn fan. Mediocrity is the name of the game.

PS Speedi, our home schedule sucks. Pick a game to come up, I'll snag us tickets. Lemme know.

[Ella`Ella]

That's an unfair assessment! I'm a happy drunk!

It's true. Detard is miserable sober and seems to forget that when he's drunk. I would drink with him only if he was drunk when we started; not sure I could make it through his sober phase.

[Llodd]

In case you were too lazy to count but wanted to know I counted for you. That's 39 total A/A clerics online at the same time with poopsocks at the ready in the quest for pixels. I typically say this sarcastically but this time I say it with the utmost sincerity: http://i.imgur.com/2P0GV.jpg

Seriously.. Get help..

Yeah thanks for counting. I considered it, but then thought nah whats the point there's probably another 20 high priests on /rol or /anon ;)

[Detoxx]

Fuck no he's not an Auburn fan, it's his one "dig" he has against me..even though Auburn sucks dick.

He's a NY Giants fan, so I guess he's the perfect transplant for an Auburn fan. Mediocrity is the name of the game.

PS Speedi, our home schedule sucks. Pick a game to come up, I'll snag us tickets. Lemme know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLII

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLVI

Reeks of mediocrity!

[Ravager]

But then again, that'd be like South Korea absorbing the hungry masses of North Korea. BDA has too many starving pixel-mouths to feed.

BDA is just full of people with healthy pixel appetites. We don't need to eat a Twinkie on the way to throwing elbows in the buffet line.

[Swish]

Trained anyone who got FTE before you lately? (hint: KC)

[trite]

To repeat what has been said a million times:

NToV as hardcore only made since on live, because no one else had to fucking time to be there. Now, that people do have time to be there that aren't hardcore, the idea of NToV being "hardcore only" doesn't work like it did. It only works for a subset of people with low self-esteem that love the idea they are getting pixils no one else can -- even though they want to!

It's always the god damn band-wagoners that pipe up first too. The people that did the least to get the most. That's how these people work, they have no separation between their personal interests and their server philosophy.

First of all, limited pixels due to limited resources AKA a lack of instances is one of the things that makes classic everquest great....esoteric prestige among other nerds who have also invested time in the elf sim is why we play lol.....there is no other reason to grind out anything....

Secondly....

Casual is a euphemism on this server for incompetent, rules are already completely fair...if you haven't invested the time to get the loot with the current rules, it's so rare you definitely don't deserve it...Only 108ish items drop off Vulak in one year and I'd estimate 300 active players are already participating in NToV encounters between awakened and aftermath on a weekly basis....

It's not like these guilds have a Rampage style recruiting system where numbers were kept limited and the vetting process was extreme...Velious has forced the top guilds to get large and anyone can apply who meets the requirements. If you don't meet those requirements you aren't ready.....

Guilds that don't have the wherewithal to compete with the current rule set simply don't belong...

[drktmplr12]

in before page 50

[Man0warr]

First of all, limited pixels due to limited resources AKA a lack of instances is one of the things that makes classic everquest great....esoteric prestige among other nerds who have also invested time in the elf sim is why we play lol.....there is no other reason to grind out anything....

Secondly....

Casual is a euphemism on this server for incompetent, rules are already completely fair...if you haven't invested the time to get the loot with the current rules, it's so rare you definitely don't deserve it...Only 108ish items drop off Vulak in one year and I'd estimate 300 active players are already participating in NToV encounters between awakened and aftermath on a weekly basis....

It's not like these guilds have a Rampage style recruiting system where numbers were kept limited and the vetting process was extreme...Velious has forced the top guilds to get large and anyone can apply who meets the requirements. If you don't meet those requirements you aren't ready.....

Guilds that don't have the wherewithal to compete with the current rule set simply don't belong...

So you are saying casual guilds are full of incompetent players, while at the same time saying A/A will recruit any level fresh Chardok 60 who meets their class need requirements?

[Pokesan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLII

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLVI

Reeks of mediocrity!

the greatest heroes since ww2. pras elisha!

[JurisDictum]

First of all, limited pixels due to limited resources AKA a lack of instances is one of the things that makes classic everquest great....esoteric prestige among other nerds who have also invested time in the elf sim is why we play lol.....there is no other reason to grind out anything....


This is what we call an opinion. Not even a widely agreed upon one necessarily. That the reason EQ classic was great is because there were bottlenecks.

The vast majority of people that played that game disagreed with you. Most people thought that bottlenecks were the shitty part of the game that needed to be addressed. Which is why no game with bottlenecks like this would ever make it to the market today. Not only that, but the existing game (EQ) doesn't even have bottlenecks on their progression servers! Only on a server like this one where its basically illegal to make any money are you going to see a system like this.

You also skate over the fact that real live classic EQ, wasn't this competitive and casuals weren't in position to do the content. It's not like they could have but were cockblocked -- that's whats going on on this server.

As for your second point -- it's actually better than anyone else's who disagreed with me IMO. Because you seem to get this is about players and not guild tags. Players need to be able to progress their characters or they quit. When Rampage ran everything -- a lot of people simply couldn't.

I still think its kind of stupid to be forced to play the game this way. An option between less pixils and a playstyle you approve of more would serve as a lifeline to a huge portion of the population that wants to raid and progress now and again but doesn't want to be a raid guild full time.

[jcr4990]

So you are saying casual guilds are full of incompetent players, while at the same time saying A/A will recruit any level fresh Chardok 60 who meets their class need requirements?

My thoughts exactly. Dude contradicted the fuck out of himself and doesn't even realize it lol. A/A is no different than any other guild on P99 they have a small core of hardcore supernerds that do 90% of the work and the warmbodies just show up to turn on auto attack and click a CH macro.

I've been in 2 major raid guilds on P99 and have an RL friend that's been in 2 different raid guilds than I have. This isn't an exaggeration. The VAST majority of the work involved in operating a successful raiding guild is handled by a very small group of people in pretty much every raid guild that exists. Everyone else (like it or not) is just filler. I put myself squarely in that category as well. Largely because I main a class that can't really help with pulls/FTE very much and isn't really vital to the raid's success as long as there's at least 1 shaman the extras don't add very much except spreading around the buff load.

Coincidentally the people that beat their chest and boast of their guilds accomplishments and look down from their high horse at the casual guilds and tell them they need to "earn it" in regards to pixels are mostly the filler types in A/A acting like they're somehow more deserving cause they showed up. It's all a big joke :P

[Swish]

Newsflash: 2 BDA guys agree on a forum post. More at 11.

[jcr4990]

Newsflash: 2 BDA guys agree on a forum post. More at 11.

Swish IRL:
http://i.imgur.com/XuUwZdp.jpg

[maskedmelon]

The VAST majority of the work involved in operating a successful raiding guild is handled by a very small group of people in pretty much every raid guild that exists. Everyone else (like it or not) is just filler.

Good point. Why should we expect p99 guilds to function differently from any other collection of humans?

[Ravager]

Swish IRL:
http://i.imgur.com/XuUwZdp.jpg

This is Swish when anyone mentions him:

http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/south-park/clip-thumbnails/season-16/1601/south-park-s16e01c12-security-breach-16x9.jpg?

[arsenalpow]

I can't wait for the day when I get to kick back and be filler.

[jcr4990]

I can't wait for the day when I get to kick back and be filler.
Grass is always greener on the other side. Not always fun being filler :P

[Swish]

Swish IRL:
(pic)

http://i.imgur.com/P7UnFvi.png

:rolleyes: :o