Mobs losing aggro far away

[Nizzarr]

aggroed mobs will drop aggro if you're far away from them.

This is happening in plane of sky.

[Gorgetrapper]

aggroed mobs will drop aggro if you're far away from them.

This is happening in plane of sky.

This is intended, as Rogean simply puts it.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=219386&postcount=12

[Rogean]

Intended. Stop trying to pull mobs off their island maybe?

[Nizzarr]

This is affecting plane of fear as well for CT summons -- aka, just pull everything to the west side of the zone, engage CT and nothing will go to him due to this nice feature :D

[Nizzarr]

Also this is very not classic, we've had Wizards pull bladestorms to 1 with the sky portal spell back in the days.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

The objective of the server is to create a historical representation of the classic experience to the best of our ability.

Tormax used to be pulled to zone. I don't recall ever seeing leashed mobs until I hit EQ2.

[uygi]

Different expansions had different aggro rules. Sky currently appears to have some bizarre, warped form of Kunark aggro rules. Kunark aggro SHOULD be that outside a certain range, if you have aggro mob just starts running around like crazy, and if you don't reset aggro that'll keep happening until it eventually gets in range to chase you again. In Sky, once out of range the mob simply forgets that you ever existed at all. Live servers never had anything like that, from beta through OoW.

I don't recall Sky even having Kunark-style aggro. Original EQ on Live (not sure about planes) had full zone aggro... you could aggro something on one side of zone, gate, and it would run to you. I don't remember which type Velious had...

I never pulled mobs inter-island on live, cannot comment on how well that worked back in the day.

[Teeroyoyort]

"The part about them not going back to their spawn point is a bug, but this did exist in classic EQ where mobs would stop chasing you after a certain distance and go back to spawn.. and if you got close enough again, they re-aggroed."

mobs not re-agro'ing atm.

[Ronas]

"The part about them not going back to their spawn point is a bug, but this did exist in classic EQ where mobs would stop chasing you after a certain distance and go back to spawn.. and if you got close enough again, they re-aggroed."

mobs not re-agro'ing atm.

I dont know, that would seem to be put in afew expansions later. I recall gating and the damn thing chase me from one side of the zone to the next

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

The ONLY mob I remember having issues with through velious was DTV in kael. mainly due to his guards. Heck I pulled Trak thru reets. I never remember mobs leashing, until I saw it in EQ2? Maybe daoc. Ever.

[Stefen]

Definitely not classic. Mobs did not leash at any point through Velious.

The picking and choosing of which classic elements to maintain (cough, experience penalties) is really discouraging.

[Rais]

The part about them not going back to their spawn point is a bug, but this did exist in classic EQ where mobs would stop chasing you after a certain distance and go back to spawn.. and if you got close enough again, they re-aggroed.

No, mobs would never stop chasing you at all. They would chase you till you zoned. Only DAOC/WoW have the leashed effect on mobs. Everquest, the mobs would ALWAYS keep chasing you no matter what. This is what was the difference between EQ vs DAOC/WoW.

This is why we used Res pulling up till Veeshan peek. Having Furor shoot Nexona with an arrow to be res pulled to the main room before Phara Dar's tunnel -> Room worked.

Western Wastes stuff didn't deagro there. Plane of Growth? Not there either. And those are the 2 biggest zones up to those time periods.

[Rogean]

Lets be clear here. This is not a leash. The mob will follow you indefinitely. If you get too far away, the mob will disengage you.

[Rais]

The mob will follow you indefinitely. If you get too far away, the mob will disengage you

This is the problem. Mobs in Everquest, never disengaged at _all_. Only after zoning, and thats because of how the zones/server were connected.

The only times this happened is when they changed Res Pulling in Velious, and Call of Hero spell. Those were the only ways NPCs would disengage/lose agro. NPC's chasing you till you zoned, no matter how far you got away from them was never a bug.It was the mechanics of Everquest.

Although this effects guilds doing Sky the most, it will change a lot of dynamics in Kunark. Res pulling is also part of the issue, since you can't pull using that way also. These are changes that are going in now, and never happened in Classic, Kunark or even Velious.


*Touched up wordage!

[Rogean]

Yes, it did happen in classic, and still does to this day on eqlive.

[uygi]

You run the server, it belongs to the people putting in the work.

But the mobs are literally wiping aggro with distance... like they're not threatening, they're indifferent. That's never been true.

[Rogean]

Having Furor shoot Nexona with an arrow to be res pulled to the main room before Phara Dar's tunnel -> Room worked.


And its stuff like that which lead to why Furor got banned.

Oh, yea.. I don't need any FoH fanboys up in my grill, but yea.. Furor was banned, confirmed by an SoE Employee.. he didn't quit.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Lets be clear here. This is not a leash. The mob will follow you indefinitely. If you get too far away, the mob will disengage you.

I certainly don't recall it, I never remember losing aggro with distance. I do recall it in GoD, but not before POP. And in Fearplane, every single mob ran to CT, when he aggroed. If you trained away, they still came to him if you died. I remember not having to fight Dojorn on his island, Our server first was actually Post Kunark. We pulled him off his island, I have the screenshots.

Yes, it did happen in classic, and still does to this day on eqlive.

Understood, but live has not been 'classic' for a long time.

[azeth]

Lets be clear here. This is not a leash. The mob will follow you indefinitely. If you get too far away, the mob will disengage you.

We all know, including every single one of your developers, that this is not a classic EverQuest mechanic. Since we're being honest here. It's unfortunate, I suppose, we're 11 years seasoned and can effectively utilize classic rez mechanics to kill things previously thought unkillable.

[Nedala]

So do all mobs run back after a while, or just in sky?

Im pretty sure mobs (other than sky) never did that in classic-velious. Reminds me of eq2.

[Lazortag]

So.. does this happen on eqmac?

[Trystych]

This would be far less annoying if mobs would stay on their islands so they could be killed where they should instead of falling through the floor. We had a flying mob fall through a flat area of island on 4 and summon people to EFP today.

So much effort is being put forth to make sky a complete pain in the ass, which it was on live too but not to this degree. Of note: No safe area on island 5 to begin breaking the island. Host of CC issues on 6, those bees before hatched are supposed to be charmable, the floor has been broken there for long enough I couldn't even say if the gear blocks LoS yet.

I don't care that DA tanking was nerfed, it should be. But having to kill things only on a select few islands and then removing the ability to bring things here is very counterproductive to sky raiding.

[Neach]

Changeing the meaning of Classic Server/Everquest to Classic Content would help most get over this. . . . .


I hope. . .

[Molitoth]

Originally Posted by nilbog
The objective of the server is to create a historical representation of the classic experience to the best of our ability.

lol

[Lostprophets]

So do all mobs run back after a while, or just in sky?


I wondered this too.

I aggro'd a Kodiak on my cleric in WC, drug him to the Kith ZL and gated back to the druid rings. He pathed back to his spawn point (just over the hill where the griff/HG can spawn). I Ran around looking for him, finally found him roaming up approximately 200 yards from the rings and he did not attack me (while i circled him) as he pathed back.

I can understand keeping mobs on a leash (to a very small extent) in PoAir (even though it doesn't seem like it's classic), however not in every other zone. (kind of like if you zone into najena with either DMF or Lev and you drop to the ground with the message "you cannot levitate in this zone.")

People can use this tactic to Exploit the hell out of Killing CT every time he pops (as the whole zone should run on top of you if you engage him w/ a fully popped zone)...I was told by quite a few people today, They explained that this method was used by a guild to kill him as if they knew that was going to happen...before it patched in.

I'm not sure the exact layout of the event as I've just been chillin, waiting on the full release of Kunark to experience it for the first time, but if that accusation is true, not only is that Unfair, but that was a Douche bag move to anyone else in the zone trying to legitimately get to him by actually killing mobs as if they weren't on a leash, and would attack you if you engaged him in a fully popped zone.

- Lostprophets

[Rairun]

I played from 1999 to 2001. I recall that in Classic zones, mobs would never stop chasing you, ever. But when Kunark was released, I could aggro a spider in FV and run away with SoW, and it would eventually stop chasing me. However, if I ever approached it again, it would instantly run after me.

I remember fighting a Sarnak in LoIO, running out of mana and then fleeing. I meditated to 100% and decided to hunt some tigers away from the fort. Half an hour later, I thought I'd try a couple of Sarnaks again. As soon as a I approached the fort, dozens of Sarnaks came after me, because that one original Sarnak had gone back to the fort and spread the aggro.

[Nedala]

I wondered this too.

I aggro'd a Kodiak on my cleric in WC, drug him to the Kith ZL and gated back to the druid rings. He pathed back to his spawn point (just over the hill where the griff/HG can spawn). I Ran around looking for him, finally found him roaming up approximately 200 yards from the rings and he did not attack me (while i circled him) as he pathed back.

I can understand keeping mobs on a leash (to a very small extent) in PoAir (even though it doesn't seem like it's classic), however not in every other zone. (kind of like if you zone into najena with either DMF or Lev and you drop to the ground with the message "you cannot levitate in this zone.")

People can use this tactic to Exploit the hell out of Killing CT every time he pops (as the whole zone should run on top of you if you engage him w/ a fully popped zone)...I was told by quite a few people today, They explained that this method was used by a guild to kill him as if they knew that was going to happen...before it patched in.

I'm not sure the exact layout of the event as I've just been chillin, waiting on the full release of Kunark to experience it for the first time, but if that accusation is true, not only is that Unfair, but that was a Douche bag move to anyone else in the zone trying to legitimately get to him by actually killing mobs as if they weren't on a leash, and would attack you if you engaged him in a fully popped zone.

- Lostprophets


Wait, are you talking about CT from yesteday? We killed him how we always do, pls dont listen to the conspiracy theories. The mobs run to CT like they always did, this is the strat used by everyone in fear. Maybe not all mobs did run to him? Idk exactly, but we would have brought him down anyway (like we did the day before, before this was bugged).

Anyway if mobs now run away after a while in every zone that would totally suck thats soooooooo nonclassic :(

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

That is it Nedala... every mob in zone should rush to CT. That sure didn't look like it happened due to the changes. Far enough away they lost interest.

Heh, anyone remember this video which touched on this from the other end?

http://www.eqvids.com/Flash/iksar/iksar.htm

[Lazortag]

From looking at the different posts here it seems this should only affect Kunark zones, and that the distance should be longer than 500 metres.
Thanks for the hard work regardless devs, and thanks for removing it for now.

[Nedala]

That is it Nedala... every mob in zone should rush to CT. That sure didn't look like it happened due to the changes. Far enough away they lost interest.

Heh, anyone remember this video which touched on this from the other end?

http://www.eqvids.com/Flash/iksar/iksar.htm

ok well tbh i didnt notice that not all mobs did rush us, but im certain we would have won the fight anyway ( the day fippy was released we pulled CT with like the same amount of mobs up, and we got him down anyway, with fewer people). People telling we did that on purpose is just ridicoulous, we had no idea not all mobs would rush us.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Oh, I have no doubt you would have won, I was just noting the mechanics.

[Lelroni]

Just throwing up anther confirm it is working on all zones it seems. Stuck my earth pet on a Ice Giant near Permafrost entrance, ran all the way to the barbarian city entrance, and after 20 minutes the giant never got to me. And actually, after my pet died, I still had him targeted and his HP started to go back up in chunks (like 15-20% every tick or what not). So he did lose aggro. However I did not run back to see if he would instantly come after me (that's a long run!)

Edit: This happened last night on 2/19.

[RazzleDazzle]

just to burst some bubbles in later expansions on Live mobs where leashed this was predominate in the SOD expansion and some before hand so the statement mobs never leashed ever on live is false =p

[Teensy Weensy]

Kunark made you lose agro after a certain distance? Since when? When you agro'd Gore she would follow you all the way across the dreadlands and that zone was huge. I don't remember this change at all in Kunark. In fact I definitely remember mobs chasing me across the entire zone multiple times. Gore would agro as soon as you would leave the safe tunnel most of the time. Then you could run all the way to the FV tunnel, sit down and wait for her to show up a little bit later.

[Aadill]

I have a cloudy memory of gobbos being the main culprit of this sort of mechanic, not necessarily every mob.

[Trimm]

Of note: No safe area on island 5 to begin breaking the island.

To the best of my understanding, this is how Isle 5 was intended to be. It's a very small island with 11 large agro-radius, roaming mobs. The isle needs to be broken in the same way Fear needs to be.

[Acillatem]

There's a fine line between creativity and exploit.

An exploit would be casting Eye of Zomm into the corner entrance of Kedge to "pop" into Phinny's room and warp him to the zoneline.

Creativity could be construed as using a 2-3 person buff/pull method to tether mobs off an upper island. Or to sacrifice a player to pull the 4 seahorses while another person solo pulls Phinny.

Intended? No. But it's ingenuity like this that made EQ a great game. The ability to think "outside the box" on certain encounters and try new things.

I remember the Devs saying how they never intended for Feign Death to be used as a "pulling" technique. However I think it's safe to say it has become a staple to the EQ community due to player ingenuity.

[Itchybottom]

Kunark made you lose agro after a certain distance? Since when? When you agro'd Gore she would follow you all the way across the dreadlands and that zone was huge. I don't remember this change at all in Kunark. In fact I definitely remember mobs chasing me across the entire zone multiple times. Gore would agro as soon as you would leave the safe tunnel most of the time. Then you could run all the way to the FV tunnel, sit down and wait for her to show up a little bit later.

Your memory is false. Because zones were so large in Kunark, after a certain amount of time chasing you with no additional aggro, they ran back to their previous spawn point/path grid. When they reached the target node they were running back to, and you were in close enough proximity they would then re-aggro. If you later got near them while they were pathing elsewhere or whatever, they would also re-aggro. Radius was ~200 for re-aggro. As a kiting druid, that was a pain in the ass when I'd lose track of a gullerback in Burning Woods. When they ran away, their HP would go back to full as if you never fought them. The only way to keep a mob interested, was to put yourself in melee range now and then, continue to nuke it every so often or keep a DoT loaded on the critter.

It happened for sure in (all places I kited crap around on my druid): Burning Woods, Wasliks Woods, Trakanons Teeth, Overthere, Dreadlands (not sure about Gore, but definitely a dread widow), Frontier Mountains, Emerald Jungle, and Firiona Vie.

I didn't use the mechanic in any other zone, but I'm sure it existed everywhere but dungeons in the Kunark expansion. Also of note, I was able to drag Faydedar at a later date (during Velious) all the way over to the island with the chess board, and it didn't de-aggro. Which might add merit to the whole Gore story.

[maegi]

There's a fine line between creativity and exploit.

An exploit would be casting Eye of Zomm into the corner entrance of Kedge to "pop" into Phinny's room and warp him to the zoneline.

Creativity could be construed as using a 2-3 person buff/pull method to tether mobs off an upper island. Or to sacrifice a player to pull the 4 seahorses while another person solo pulls Phinny.

Intended? No. But it's ingenuity like this that made EQ a great game. The ability to think "outside the box" on certain encounters and try new things.

I remember the Devs saying how they never intended for Feign Death to be used as a "pulling" technique. However I think it's safe to say it has become a staple to the EQ community due to player ingenuity.

In case you haven't tried it yourself , eye of zomm doesn't draw any aggro whatsoever, very much not classic as well. It certainly did on live. People used it to pull all the time, not a lot of aggro, which was good, but enough to pull with it.

[guineapig]

It was my understanding that most people would not have ever experienced this one live simply because most zones in classic are not large enough and most classes not fast enough to attain the 500+ distance required to replicate the disengaging of the mob.

I cannot confirm or deny that this happened on live back in 1999 but it does make sense why many would be confused as to how this mechanic could have possibly existed.

[azeth]

It was my understanding that most people would not have ever experienced this one live simply because most zones in classic are not large enough and most classes not fast enough to attain the 500+ distance required to replicate the disengaging of the mob.

I cannot confirm or deny that this happened on live back in 1999 but it does make sense why many would be confused as to how this mechanic could have possibly existed.

We know it didn't since it was common practice to pull most of Sky to islands 1 and 4 using various tactics i.e Wizard sky port + keying up to 4.

[guineapig]

We know it didn't since it was common practice to pull most of Sky to islands 1 and 4 using various tactics i.e Wizard sky port + keying up to 4.

Legit question: How are you judging the exact in game distance though? Is it possible that the reason this was doable was because either the 500+ distance was not met or because of z-axis distance being ignored or the recognition bugged?

While we're on the topic is 500 distance beyond maximum sight distance? My guess would be yes but I have no idea.

[Aadill]

I'm pretty sure the Karanas, Sky, Fear, and maybe Dagnor's would have the possibility of being large enough to see the mechanic in action in terms of zones in EQ:Classic, but I'm sure someone would've noted that by now.

I remember encountering the mechanic in Kunark but it would make sense that it was introduced alongside the changes to Feign Deathbecause it would allow FD to be successful in numerous ways by either luck or patience (multiple FDs to wipe agro and hope for the best or split mobs and get one to go back to spawn while the other remains e.g. snare pulling with an SK).

To address a concern about the mechanic itself: the times I did run across the Karanas or any other large zone on any other continent other than Kunark with mobs snared, it never resulted in them running back to their spawn when I got far enough away. This leads me to believe that Kunark zones were the only place where that mechanic took place. Furthermore I have a feeling that it was only limited to particular mobs that were found in Kunark. Gore would never be able to lose agro, because it was kited endlessly back in the day. Undead didn't seem to ever give up, either. Goblins and Sarnaks, however, had the attention span of goldfish. I'm not sure what kind of proof beyond anecdote is possible here, but hopefully this might help steer this topic in the right direction

[Otto]

It was my understanding that most people would not have ever experienced this one live simply because most zones in classic are not large enough and most classes not fast enough to attain the 500+ distance required to replicate the disengaging of the mob.

I cannot confirm or deny that this happened on live back in 1999 but it does make sense why many would be confused as to how this mechanic could have possibly existed.

I used to abuse this mechanic on live leveling alts.

In rathe mts. you can pull Findlegrob and he'd send his pet after you and start casting. If you ran to the lake rathe zoneline, you'd end up far enough away for Findlegrob to go back to his spawn point and his pet to stick with you at the zoneline (since he was casting and the pet wasn't).

The part I can't explain is even after you killed the pet, Findlegrob would summon another and send it after you. It was an endless pull of findlegrob pets, good exp from 18-22.

[Aadill]

I guess that disproves my theory.. never noticed it! That's some good information though, Otto.