What are Rangers like now? Wanted in grps?

[BarkingSpider]

I haven't been around much since Velious released, was just wondering what has changed with Rangers since then. I know the 40% exp bonus is gone and they got a couple new spells, but has the general opinion of them changed much? Do they get groups much easier now than before? Has their dps changed any / gotten better, making them more appealing to group with on the way to level 60?

[Tupakk]

Personally I love a good ranger while leveling. Great pullers semi decent dps and honestly if played well feel like they can tank as well.

[Egilmn]

Dps was never the issue, it was the 40% exp penalty. Any group now looking for dps and not taking a ranger with decent gear is dumb.

[Foxplay]

Shear stat wise... dps / tanking. Nothing to write home about inferior to monks and rogues in dps, and inferior to everyone except rogues in tanking.

Their spells offer them some versatility and handy group tools if used correctly and of course harmony in outdoor zones is pulling made EZ-mode. Their epic is at least in my opinion one of the stronger melee (well hybrid) epics in that it can proc slow, which helps them solo / group in groups without a sham or enc a lot better. I believe their epic is a lot easier nowadays with VS remains too.

Like all melee classes (hybrids included) leans heavily on gear dependence. But if your not tanking which monks and warriors do better anyway then some good weapons and a haste item is really all you need.

[NextToTheGods]

A twinked ranger with epics is the king of KC and a nobody anywhere else.

[Naethyn]

If anyone is interested in what they do on raids:
Call of the Predator, Strength of Nature, and Call of Earth are all wanted buffs. Rangers also save the day by weaponshielding if a tank goes down so the next tank can pick it up after heals start landing. Multiple rangers will even make a list for who will weaponshield first. DPS wise they do not get triple attack which is a pretty big deal and usually parse just under or at monks. Attack buffs for the raid are very strong, but you only really need one ranger there to do it.

[paulgiamatti]

inferior to everyone except rogues in tanking.

A common misconception is that rogues are a low-defense squishy melee class like rangers. Rogues actually have insanely high defense skill (which doesn't make a lot of sense considering we spend most of our time avoiding aggro), and aside from disciplines and the taunt ability, they're pretty much on par with warriors in the tanking department. My rogue is fairly beefy despite lacking NToV and other end-game gear - easily north of 1,100 AC and 4,500 HP with group buffs. I carry around tank weapons such as Infestation and Trochilic's Skean on my rogue in case the opportunity presents itself, but lacking a proc or a rooter things can go south fairly quickly. So if you do decide to try rogue-tanking, you'll want to either call post-proc assists or have a dedicated rooter.

Rangers are actually completely unique in their shitty defense cap, which is paradoxical to their superior snap aggro which is the best in the game.

if your not tanking which monks and warriors do better anyway then some good weapons and a haste item is really all you need.

So there should really be two criterion for comparing tanking proficiency: the ability to take hits, and the ability to draw aggro. Warriors, monks, and rogues are the worst in the latter, and hybrids are the best in the former, with rangers simultaneously occupying the zenith of snap aggro and the nadir of durability. Because of this, gear is usually a huge factor when considering a ranger as a tank, which is why rangers are often still groupless post experience penalties. Sometimes the biggest factor in a ranger's groupability is their personal reputation - their notoriety for being well-geared or a solid player. I think the main reason for this is because they're primarily a utility hybrid - they don't specialize in any one role that a group might be looking for.

I can't remember who, but someone once described rangers as the oil in a well-oiled machine - the additional component in a mechanical system that, when utilized well, allows everything to flow more smoothly. They fill in the empty gaps in the group by picking up the slack in a bunch of different roles such as pulling, buffing, DPSing, crowd-controlling, and tanking. So a ranger really needs to be extremely proactive in groups in order to carry their weight, which isn't necessarily true to the same degree for other melee and hybrid classes. They're the jack-of-all-trades of melee classes.

[Cecily]

Paul, your agro problems are due to your shit ratio weapons. Get a Nightfall or Thornstinger for tanking. Very few people can pull off my rogue and that's what backstab agro is for.

[stormlord]

I haven't been around much since Velious released, was just wondering what has changed with Rangers since then. I know the 40% exp bonus is gone and they got a couple new spells, but has the general opinion of them changed much? Do they get groups much easier now than before? Has their dps changed any / gotten better, making them more appealing to group with on the way to level 60?
If you're playing a ranger to be wanted in groups then don't.

Plya one of these:
Enchanter
Cleric
Monk
Rogue
Warrior
Wizard
Shaman
Necromancer
Magician

This was tallied from server data during original content, maybe 2010-11.

Tehse classes don't tend to survive at the highest levels:
Bard
Ranger
Druid
Shadowknight
Paladin

Notice the 4 hybrids?

I played a ranger when there were dinosaurs. I played them when gimp was our last name.

Play a ranger because you like them. Period.

[Swish]

Shear stat wise... dps / tanking. Nothing to write home about inferior to monks and rogues in dps, and inferior to everyone except rogues in tanking.


Bards might wear plate but I swear rangers hold up better in a tanking situation, just from a cleric's point of view...not sure if its having gear more suited to it (HP/sta/etc) or not, whether AC "works as intended" or not, or just based on the rangers I've had vs bards.

Rangers are good pullers and particularly since the hybrid XP penalty disappeared I love having them in a group...never played one past the 20s myself :p

[Tupakk]

Paul, your agro problems are due to your shit ratio weapons. Get a Nightfall or Thornstinger for tanking. Very few people can pull off my rogue and that's what backstab agro is for.

We all can't have nice toys.

My tanking setup is Infestation and Chetari Tail with a Liberator swap.

[Cecily]

Eh, dps holds agro. People get over reliant on procs which aren't a sure thing by any stretch and neglect white text, which overall lowers your baseline agro potential. 9/18 and 10/25 are just straight up bad damage and having a chance of them being good once or twice a minute isn't a good argument to use them.

[Fasttimes]

In raid situations we parse better then monks and some rogues. If you have bfg and true shot. I frequently outdps lower geared rogues and 90% of monks. Rangers are fine we just live by our 72min timer

[Naethyn]

In raid situations we parse better then monks and some rogues. If you have bfg and true shot. I frequently outdps lower geared rogues and 90% of monks. Rangers are fine we just live by our 72min timer

What arrow do you use for this?

[Fasttimes]

What arrow do you use for this?

Just summoned cause I'm lazy. Do have primal to help with attack but rarely have a bard for more attack

[Swish]

Must be some lazy ass rogues around. Crack the whip :p

[branamil]

Rangers niche is pulling. With tracking, snare, and harmony they are best pullers in outdoor zones. Do this well and groups will remember you can beg you to join.

[Fasttimes]

Must be some lazy ass rogues around. Crack the whip :p

I mean maybe but to be fair my gear is above average the more point is that we do good dps. I've parsed ~120 on vindi before. It's still some rng for crits but if ya been around me you can attest rangers aren't Gimp.

[MilanderTruewield]

Minus your pants. They don't match.

[Fasttimes]

Minus your pants. They don't match.

:( wru iki pants

[Tupakk]

Eh, dps holds agro. People get over reliant on procs which aren't a sure thing by any stretch and neglect white text, which overall lowers your baseline agro potential. 9/18 and 10/25 are just straight up bad damage and having a chance of them being good once or twice a minute isn't a good argument to use them.

They are meant for in a pinch or if I'm the only melee. Generally swap out for my dex/ac gear and hope a shm is around or in grp.

I'm sure you know about the rotate n backstab which helps a lot as well.
Rog tanking is like bard intstrument swapping. If one item doesn't proc swap it for another and another and another til you get it going.

Currently have 8 swaps not including Eon and Epic.

[Cecily]

I mean, besides swapping in dex/ac gear, maybe, that sounds completely wrong to me. I keep my backstab up as a sure thing taunt when I lose agro. And you're not improving your proc rate by swapping weapons till they proc. You are, however, resetting your weapon delay timers and losing DPS.
NOT LIKE THOSE PROCCING WEAPONS HAD ANY DPS TO BEGIN WITH!

Best trick I can give you is have someone else pull and nail the creeps with a backstab 100% HP. That's a huge agro spike.
Other than that, carry some root nets.

[Tupakk]

I mean, besides swapping in dex/ac gear maybe, that sounds completely wrong to me. I keep my backstab up as a sure thing taunt when I lose agro. And you're not improving your proc rate by swapping weapons till they proc. You are, however, resetting your weapon delay timers and losing DPS.

.... I was joking besides swapping in gear that I do do :eek::eek:

[Aadill]

I sometimes parse in between the rogues, but usually right below them and above monks.

In regular groups though, I think it's really dependent on what's available and how good/bad the player is. I'm not a min/maxer and would rather have a blast with people than waste 30 extra minutes looking for a tank that really won't end up doing any better because the cleric will waste their time healing themselves half the fight.

[paulgiamatti]

Just summoned cause I'm lazy. Do have primal to help with attack but rarely have a bard for more attack

I have a theory that arrow damage is broken on P99 and there's very little if any difference between 3-damage summoned arrows and 8-damage silver-tipped arrows. Would be interested to see some parses.

[Swish]

Even if it is, is evidence required from 2001 to prove what the true totals are?

[paulgiamatti]

Probably. It could be that the difference is supposed to be negligible.

[BarkingSpider]

Thanks everyone who replied so far. So basically what I am getting is it mostly depends on the player and what they want to achieve. If you want to be the best tank or top dps, it isn't going to happen. But if you wanna have a fun time leveling and be able to handle different roles in a group depending on what the group is lacking (tank/dps/CC etc.) then Ranger isn't so bad. So long as that group accepts you as a Ranger. However, you're never really sought after, more like "Yah, I guess we can grab that Ranger whos been shouting in OOC for the last 10mins" lol. Either way, sounds like it could be a fun class. I don't know if I'll ever get 60 and get into raiding content, I just want to enjoy the ride to 50+ while meeting people along the way, and the ability to solo if no groups are available.

Someone in the first page someone else mentioned Cleric / Enchanter being the top 2 classes that are always needed for groups. I was under the assumption though that Enchanter / Cleric / Warrior were all super over played / populated. Is that no the case?

Also a side question, other than a charmed pet and clarity, what does an Enchanter bring to a group that makes them so valuable? Is it just Mez? Also, how possible is it to play all the way to 60 as an Enchanter without ever bothering with charming mobs? I mean, suppose I went Enchanter, would groups specifically invite me for the charm pet DPS, or are there other things Enchanters offer that outweigh the charming?

[Swish]

The best thing you can do if you're a less desireable class (listen up wizards) is be the one who puts groups together, become known for it, form a regular crew with a regularish tank/healer/puller and fill the gaps as required.

On my SK during hybrid group penalty days I'd often be the one forming groups, once I found a healer the rest filled itself... was more than happy to pull if we couldn't get a puller.

[Bummey]

rangers are good

[Jimjam]

I really like how sky geared rangers aren't dependant for others for haste.

With epics / sky cloak a ranger makes a great start to a group, especially if they can find a cleric or necro. Necros love rangers for the +12hp/tick regen they can provide.

With Velious armor rangers mitigate fine against xp content. Their low defence skill does mean they take more hits. But, hey! That's just extra DPS done by your damage shield!

[Egilmn]

Bards might wear plate but I swear rangers hold up better in a tanking situation, just from a cleric's point of view...not sure if its having gear more suited to it (HP/sta/etc) or not, whether AC "works as intended" or not, or just based on the rangers I've had vs bards.

You were grouping with bards who didn't know what they were doing. They do have plate and a high defense cap, and if they are serious about tanking then they should equip a shield. Bards can slow every single mob by 35% non stop, and even ae slow multiple mobs in that way. That is a lot of mitigation in itself and their songs hold aggro easily. They can also wield harmonic dagger at 46+ to proc stun for more mitigation/aggro.

[Jimjam]

[QUOTE=Egilmn;2566282]You were grouping with bards who didn't know what they were doing. They do have plate and a high defense cap/QUOTE]

I think you highlighted the problems bards face; they have the potential to be tanky, but many don't gear for AC, nor take a lot of hits, so don't come close to what would otherwise be considered the baseline tankiness for the class.

[Tupakk]

Bard with a shield is very interesting. Would love to hear more about your take on this

[fadetree]

I haven't been around much since Velious released, was just wondering what has changed with Rangers since then. I know the 40% exp bonus is gone and they got a couple new spells, but has the general opinion of them changed much? Do they get groups much easier now than before? Has their dps changed any / gotten better, making them more appealing to group with on the way to level 60?

So, my usual advice is, if you want to play some kind of character and you are wondering if Ranger is worth the effort, then the answer usually is you shouldn't play a Ranger. If you really want to play a Ranger and you're just wondering how rough it will be, then you're in better shape.
One of the reasons I love them so much is that they show the skill of a player vs. the built-in capability of the class more than most melee classes do. I also like that they have been traditionally looked down upon and made fun of in EQ, because that makes it so satisfying to prove it wrong. I also like the difficulty of solo play, because masochism I guess. In the old days Rangers had kind of a brotherhood feel to them more than most other classes.

It all boils down to this for me :
If I see a max level caster, monk, bard, war, rogue I just go meh, ok. If I see a max level Ranger (or Pallie/SK, for that matter ) I am impressed.

[Samoht]

Also a side question, other than a charmed pet and clarity, what does an Enchanter bring to a group that makes them so valuable? Is it just Mez?

Is this for real? Lol. Charmed pets are the most DPS in the game. Clarity is the most sought after buff in the game. Haste is the second most.

And they get to CC on top of all of that? The only reason you wouldn't want to invite an Enchanter to your group is because the player is bad and either sucks at CC or refuses to pet.

Also, how possible is it to play all the way to 60 as an Enchanter without ever bothering with charming mobs? I mean, suppose I went Enchanter, would groups specifically invite me for the charm pet DPS, or are there other things Enchanters offer that outweigh the charming?

Why wouldn't you charm?

[Raavak]

Why wouldn't you charm?Too skeered of charm breaks prolly. You need to concentrate on the game the whole time unlike most the classes. Charm petting is not something for the lazy or those easily distracted.

[deadlycupcakez]

Look, I played a ranger on red to 51 as one of my alt cycles and tanked for every group I played in with some basic moth/ivy and a haste item + axe of lost souls. Particularly for Mistmoore and City of Mist (I know they are drab and over populated), rangers are the creme de la creme for pulling/tanking.

Also of note, at the time, everyone wanted to play wizards monks and druids on the server, so it's not like every group I was in even had clerics and rogues either. Play smart, pull smart, self buff and by leveraging your ability to always only bring in one mob at a time with the next inc as the first starts running away, you will keep even your druid healers mana in a good place for non-stop pulls.

[Amyas]

Rangers are awesome as they are leveling up. They are amazing for pulling in out door zones.

They didn't really come into their own until Luclin via AA's for archery.

[Moerne]

The best thing you can do if you're a less desireable class (listen up wizards) is be the one who puts groups together, become known for it, form a regular crew with a regularish tank/healer/puller and fill the gaps as required.

On my SK during hybrid group penalty days I'd often be the one forming groups, once I found a healer the rest filled itself... was more than happy to pull if we couldn't get a puller.

Completely agree. I (cleric) regularly played with a ranger and SK through most of my 40's and 50's. Often we would be trioing and the ranger was superb for drawing aggro to root park adds while doing the dps we needed and snaring runners. Add in a sham for slow/haste and we were a very solid group in HS, the Hole, etc.

[fadetree]

Rangers are awesome as they are leveling up. They are amazing for pulling in out door zones.

They didn't really come into their own until Luclin via AA's for archery.

Yup.

[Rygar]

I have a theory that arrow damage is broken on P99 and there's very little if any difference between 3-damage summoned arrows and 8-damage silver-tipped arrows. Would be interested to see some parses.

Ever try with these?:
https://wiki.project1999.com/Gloomwater_Arrow

I always thought they were trash (are they the highest dmg arrow in the game?), I had like 13 of them on my monk when farming my Pearlescent Mask and I just destroyed them.

Curious how many Gloomwater Arrows would be needed for a BFG + Trueshot parse? Not sure what mob would be a good candidate, I hear Velious AC is very high on raid mobs, so what is a good target to test arrow damage on? Just some old world trash mobs with decent HP?

May be gathering some stacks of these bad boys at some point, my chanter is almost ready for Kedge.

[Naethyn]

Derakor the Vindicator is the best mob to test melee dps on.

[maskedmelonpai]

rangers are awful. nobody like them and OP and everyone else should just stop considering playing them right now. it not worth it. TRUST me.