Request for a different policy on (game-changing) specific item camps

[YendorLootmonkey]

The scene is a peaceful morning... just before the break of dawn. The old man and his son had gotten up hours before to rig up the boat and find the perfect fishing spot. It was the one just beyond the reeds, under the shade of an overhanging tree. Last summer, they had caught over 30 fish in one day between the two of them.

Shortly after the first catch of the day, their friends had gently rowed over from the landing and joined them in the bountiful fishing spot. All four enjoyed a quiet story and a beer -- the young lad sipped from a half-empty Capri Sun juice packet -- while they reeled in the most magnificent specimen of fish they had ever laid eyes on.

Soon, just before noon, it was time for the father and son to leave. Some more friends would soon be there to take advantage of the mid-day fishing, so there would be plenty of fish at the church-sponsored fish fry tonight.

"Dad," the young boy said. "Can we--"

Suddenly, without warning, Kika Maslyaka, who had been waiting around on the other side of the reeds for the last two hours, completely miffed that someone had gotten that perfect fishing spot first, roared up in a twin-engine speedboat with "Round and Round" by RATT blaring in the background, and shouted "YOU THERE, GET THE F@#$ OUT! MY TURN NOW!" After firing several warning shots across their bow from a previously-holstered Walther PPK pistol, Kika added "YOU'VE HAD ENOUGH FISH FOR THE DAY. GET OUT OF THAT SPOT. IT'S G&DD$MN MINE!!!!"

[Kika Maslyaka]

ah the "common courtesy" - a word that a Lineage player such as yourself only have seen in ancient dictionary...

[Kika Maslyaka]

The scene is a peaceful morning...

no, this is not how it was...

So early morning YendorLootmonkey and 5 of his fellow gang brutes have shown up at the lake with 2 boats and blocked it on 2 sides getting all the fish there is for hours and hours and hours.

And when a few simple civilians showed up and ask for a little spot to fish, the YendorLootmonkey pulled out his Ak-47 started shooting at them, screaming "GTFO!!!! Or I will call in 50 more people who will beat you, rape you, then go to your house and burn it down!"

[YendorLootmonkey]

"GTFO!!!! Or I will call in 50 more people who will beat you, rape you, then go to your house and burn it down!"

Nonsense... I would never go to someone's house uninvited. That's just rude.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Nonsense... I would never go to someone's house uninvited. That's just rude.

perhaps. but you can set it on fire from the outside too...

[Loly Taa]

perhaps. but you can set it on fire from the outside too...

We're done here, you are wrong. I'm sorry that your ideas of what reality is like did not mesh with what you believe to be true. This is noone's fault but your own. Maybe your parent's fault, but most likely your own.

[Kika Maslyaka]

We're done here, you are wrong. I'm sorry that your ideas of what reality is like did not mesh with what you believe to be true. This is noone's fault but your own. Maybe your parent's fault, but most likely your own.

We're done here, you are wrong. I'm sorry that your ideas of what reality is like did not mesh with what you believe to be true. This is noone's fault but your own. Maybe your parent's fault, but most likely your own.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Eh Yendor, you make good points but, I think most of the rules are good too. I do however, agree that the handing camps off to guildies despite who else has been waiting is ridiculous. There is only one reason that rule exists.

You are standing in line at the supermarket. Some guy calls his friends up in front of you, one, then two, then three... what will happen?

You are standing in line at the register to a video store, you look down at your cell phone as the guy at the register gets done. Someone else jumps in front of you claiming you weren't at the register when it was open. What happens next?

If you really wanted to cut down on a great majority of the nonsense that goes on, the first thing you enforce is common courtesy. None of this 'We are sitting 2 inches closer so it is our camp" foolishness. We do need rules, but there is an awful lot of people who seek to take advantage, or twist the reason for the rules. Common sense should govern, not sub paragraph 4 of section 8 of the 32nd page of some by-law. Or "we saw you sitting 6 feet away, and you need to be 5 feet away to claim the camp even though you have been there 2 hours...".

In my first example what happens is people in line say something. They get vocal, the person at the register may say something. The manager gets called. If the guy won't step back to the end , or leave the store, the police get called. Or perhaps he gets his ass whipped by someone (or someones) nearby. If you just wait your turn in line, you get to check out, go home, and enjoy your food. The police don't have to waste their time dealing with it.

But because we don't use common sense or courtesy first, we have people racing to get to the line first, we have people pushing people aside, butting in line, doing all sorts of things which are normally unacceptable in society. And they are encouraged in their behavior due to the twisting, or interpreting of the rules. Then the police come, and have to deal with it. And they throw everyone in line in jail. Or everyone in the storehas to leave. All we have to do is 'play nice'.

The person in front of you isn't paying attention when the line moves. You say, "Excuse me" and get their attention. Not create a scene where someone needs to call the police. Or get yourself banished from the Woolsworth.

The examples of standing in line at a store of some kind is more apt... not fishing with ak-47s...

"Le sens commun est fort rare."

One could also say "Il est dangereux d’avoir raison dans des choses où des hommes accrédités ont tort."

[vitalious]

I am the guild mate of a few people in this thread. I didn't participate in the droga lock downs, but my guild did. Kika, you say its wrong for guilds to pass camps to each other and I see your point, but guilds are families. I would give a camp to any of them before you. If you and another man( my family member) both were starving and I had the resources to either buy you food as you sit outside the restaurant for 10 hours, or pay a taxi to bring my family member to the restaurant to eat, id choose my family over random guy 1000 times out of 1000. That's what a guild is, family. Next time some family member wants to borrow money, have them watch you donate it to charity and see how that works for you. You say this isn't fair? Damn right it isnt fair, but neither is the rest of life. Why should I have to work hard when some talentless hack like Kim kardashian gets rich for doing nothing? I can complain, but that won't feed my family. Just like bitching here won't get you a rare item.

In the words of the black psp kid "step yo game up"

[Haul]

Competition makes this game fun imo.

red99 true competition

[Kika Maslyaka]

I am the guild mate of a few people in this thread. I didn't participate in the droga lock downs, but my guild did. Kika, you say its wrong for guilds to pass camps to each other and I see your point, but guilds are families. I would give a camp to any of them before you. If you and another man( my family member) both were starving and I had the resources to either buy you food as you sit outside the restaurant for 10 hours, or pay a taxi to bring my family member to the restaurant to eat, id choose my family over random guy 1000 times out of 1000. That's what a guild is, family. Next time some family member wants to borrow money, have them watch you donate it to charity and see how that works for you. You say this isn't fair? Damn right it isnt fair, but neither is the rest of life. Why should I have to work hard when some talentless hack like Kim kardashian gets rich for doing nothing? I can complain, but that won't feed my family. Just like bitching here won't get you a rare item.

In the words of the black psp kid "step yo game up"

except this "food" is not yours to give whom you like.
The camps are communal property - you only visiting here.

In other words "get off the train bitch!"

[Brad_mo123]

So you are telling me that it isnt right to help our guild out by farming the items for the guild? Im sorry I dont understand why the camp should be given to anyone other than who is more important. It's not like the camp is being kept purposely so you cant get the item, it is camped so that we can get the item.

[vitalious]

except this "food" is not yours to give whom you like.
The camps are communal property - you only visiting here.

In other words "get off the train bitch!"

The camp is not communal property if I control it. That's the point. And in the analogy the item is the food, the camp is the resources I decide to give to someone else. In the end none of this bitching will get you the item or camp.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

The only reason you can use these arguments is because of that one sentence about handing off to whomever you want. Selfish people create these situations, and thereby cause all these rules and situational variants to crop up because they have no concept of respect or courtesy. Every situation seems to have need of the police, or a judge to make a ruling because we cannot 'play nice'. One of the most basic concepts you all should understand is the concept of standing in a line.

You go to the bank? Stand in line. Go to an airport? Stand in line. Go to a concession stand? Stand in line. Go to court? Stand in line. Cafeteria? Traffic lights? You wait your turn. You want fair? you want even steven? You want socially accepted? You don't go to the bank and when you get in line call up your brother. Then your sister. then your mother, and your other brother, and and and and. The very notion is ridiculous. I for one would like to see more support for the change. It only supports the minority of the population who aren't at all interested in 'competition'. It smacks of selfishness and greed. You want to loot something, wait at the camp and loot it when your turn arrives.

Shit if anyone tried something like this on live the GM would tell them to move along once they had the loot. Or to wait their turn.. that was MY classic experience.

[soup]

We're done here, you are wrong. I'm sorry that your ideas of what reality is like did not mesh with what you believe to be true. This is noone's fault but your own. Maybe your parent's fault, but most likely your own.

Ironic post. Not only do your views NOT reflect reality, they are also loaded with self entitled bullshit.

Seriously, your attitude is VERY close to one of "I deserve whatever I want simply because I want it!"

As has been said 1057870812578012 goddamn times, the only person stopping you from getting the camps you want is YOU. You could put in the same goddamn effort as anyone else working as a team and get some camps, but instead you'd rather whine on the forums about how you're entitled to anything you decide you want while also wearing some tinfoil hat because you think people are making a conscious effort to cockblock you.

You are completely out of touch with what is actually going on. To be honest, it seems like you don't even have a character that would have any business at any of these contested camps.

[soup]

The only reason you can use these arguments is because of that one sentence about handing off to whomever you want. Selfish people create these situations, and thereby cause all these rules and situational variants to crop up because they have no concept of respect or courtesy. Every situation seems to have need of the police, or a judge to make a ruling because we cannot 'play nice'. One of the most basic concepts you all should understand is the concept of standing in a line.

You go to the bank? Stand in line. Go to an airport? Stand in line. Go to a concession stand? Stand in line. Go to court? Stand in line. Cafeteria? Traffic lights? You wait your turn. You want fair? you want even steven? You want socially accepted? You don't go to the bank and when you get in line call up your brother. Then your sister. then your mother, and your other brother, and and and and. The very notion is ridiculous. I for one would like to see more support for the change. It only supports the minority of the population who aren't at all interested in 'competition'. It smacks of selfishness and greed. You want to loot something, wait at the camp and loot it when your turn arrives.

Shit if anyone tried something like this on live the GM would tell them to move along once they had the loot. Or to wait their turn.. that was MY classic experience.
These analogies are all fail. The camp ground / park bench analogy is FAR more accurate.

I mean, unless you're really awkward socially and need company to wait inline at the grocery store or you go hang out at campsites by yourself.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Most of eq camps revolves around waiting in line. We wait in line, until it is our turn. We create 'lists'.

I mean, unless you're really awkward socially and need company to wait inline at the grocery store or you go hang out at campsites by yourself.

And yes, that is why I said it would be ridiculous. I don't think the fish works, unless it is the ONLY spot for fish. The best fishing spot implies there are other good spots around, but we were not talking about exp camps, we were talking about loot camps, no? If it was the only camp site in the world, do you honestly think it would work that way? Or would the law step in to create waiting lists, and reservations to avoid incidents. Go to a gym, and play some b ball. Some gyms hey pick 'next'. Some have sign up sheets they use for 'next'. Some times the sheets are frauds as they sign up 6 times with nicknames to ensure they get their team. Whenever people waiting for 'next' got passed over, I saw fights. Or gym management get involved, because they had established rules concerning 'next' because of said fights.

[Klyre]

Analogies are about the only thing that’s entertaining about this thread!
Most of eq camps revolves around waiting in line. We wait in line, until it is our turn. We create 'lists'.


This is true, except you are leaving out the most relevant part of this.

Who holds the list?

Why the leader of the group holds the list. He or she is the only one who can and has the rights of High justice on who not only is in the camp but who can get on the list. This is true no matter what camp you are at, this you should have learned at even the lowest of levels.

I am sorry but this is the way the game is set up, and everyone must make their way in this reality until a better one is agreed to by the GM's. No matter how unfair you think the current rules are, these are the realities. I have said it before and I will say it again. If you want to change the rules then find a process that is the least work/hassle for them. In this entire post I have yet to see one. Yes I have read the entire thread.

You can talk all you want about what’s fair, but this game isn't about what is fair. This game is about friendships and Allies to compete against the game and yes each other. Even if you find a good guild there still isn’t an automatic free ride as you seem to think. Even if I wanted an ubur item, my guild isn’t going to just hand it to me because I want it, I have to work for it, make the right friends and even then this is no guarantee. Fair is a matter of opinion and perspective, not an argument.

Kika and friends, you keep complaining like the world is against you. But that is just your perception, not long ago this was posted by Hottbiscuits. This doesn’t happen often, but it does happen. Believe it or not I have seen this with most of the guilds on this server.

Yesterday my mage friend and I were again spending our day in Droga when we found the CoS camp empty for the first time in weeks. We buffed and made up his pet, cleared the left bodyguard room and just as we were finished I was nuked by an add for the last bit of my health, and he had to gate.

By that time a group of the guild Divinity had arrived and must have seen what had happened. Euron sent me a tell and let me know he'd hold our room for us until we got back. Once my mage friend and I invis'd down and got to our room, Ninik (I apologize if I spelled your name wrong!) gave me a 90% rez and even buffed us AND the mage's pet.

Not only did we split the camp (we had the left room, half of middle and they had everything else including Rokgus) but they were civil, pleasant and extremely cooperative. We were able to spend the entire day sharing the camp.

Each group got one CoS by the time the server restarted for the second time that day and the Divinity group went to join a guild raid.

My mage friend and I both got a CoS by the end of the night, and by the time I left, the group had merged with the only other group in Droga who had asked to be in line for the camp, three people our level who were in a lower level guild.

Euron, Ninik and the other members of Divinity: I am extremely grateful to all of you. You were all exceedingly pleasant, cooperative and hospitable. You let us share the camp with you, something that we haven't been able to do since we began our adventure in Droga about a week ago.

I can't thank you enough!!


There are options to have the chance to get what you want, and many things you can do to increase the likelihood of success.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Ironic post. Not only do your views NOT reflect reality, they are also loaded with self entitled bullshit.

Seriously, your attitude is VERY close to one of "I deserve whatever I want simply because I want it!"

As has been said 1057870812578012 goddamn times, the only person stopping you from getting the camps you want is YOU. You could put in the same goddamn effort as anyone else working as a team and get some camps, but instead you'd rather whine on the forums about how you're entitled to anything you decide you want while also wearing some tinfoil hat because you think people are making a conscious effort to cockblock you.

You are completely out of touch with what is actually going on. To be honest, it seems like you don't even have a character that would have any business at any of these contested camps.


Ironic post. Not only do your views NOT reflect reality, they are also loaded with self entitled bullshit.

Seriously, your attitude is VERY close to one of "I deserve whatever I want simply because I want it!"

You are completely out of touch with what is actually going on. To be honest, it seems like you don't even have a character that would have any business at any of these contested camps

[Kika Maslyaka]

The camp is not communal property if I control it. That's the point. And in the analogy the item is the food, the camp is the resources I decide to give to someone else. In the end none of this bitching will get you the item or camp.

the camp is ALWAYS communal property - you not controlling it, you only BORROWING from a community for a short time, and you expected to hand it over to next person in line when you done. So spot bitching and tell your friends to get in line

[Hanzo]

Imitation, highest form of flattery. Now you're just grabbing straws. I wonder how well this helps proving your point of view to be the correct one?


Spoiler: It doesn't. Keep trying.

[Odeseus]

the camp is ALWAYS communal property - you not controlling it, you only BORROWING from a community for a short time, and you expected to hand it over to next person in line when you done. So spot bitching and tell your friends to get in line

This is the whole point that you apparently are missing. WHO exactly is expecting you to hand over the camp? Kika, people with your perspective are expecting that. Everyone else is not.

And to reiterate for the thousandth time, why is YOUR expectations the only one that matters? I had to learn this lesson the hard way when I got all bent outta shape after the Kunark launch. My expectations were not met then, but it is my own fault for creating expectations that did not conform to reality.

Your expectations are at fault (apparently) because camps do not work the way that you expect them to. This is because the majority of the players decided (perhaps unconsciously) that the "beach party" model was the way that this server would go, instead of the "waiting in line" model. You could argue that your model is superior all day, but it won't change the reality. Just like people would agree that alternative fuels are superior to imported oil. But good luck changing almost 100 years of dependance on oil. It isn't going to happen overnight and it certainly isn't going to happen by raging and flaming everyone who doesn't drive a hybrid or electric car. You are just going to piss them off and they will ignore you.

Another thing, who exactly is holding this magical list of yours? The group that is there? If so, how can you claim to be the arbiter of something you do not have? If you hold it, what prevents you from tweaking it to your own wants? Since it does not actually physically (or digitally) exist, there is no proof of anything at all. It is like arguing about unicorns. One person says they always have sparkles and another person says only certain ones do. You cannot prove it one way or the other because unicorns do not exist to confirm or deny either claim.

Anyway, writing all that probably wasn't worth my time but I needed a post count +1

[Salty]

That's exactly what we need, GM enforced camps.

Amazing idea; I'm sure Uthgaard won't cause any problems with that.

[thefloydian]

This thread is embarrassing.

[soup]

Ironic post. Not only do your views NOT reflect reality, they are also loaded with self entitled bullshit.

Seriously, your attitude is VERY close to one of "I deserve whatever I want simply because I want it!"

You are completely out of touch with what is actually going on. To be honest, it seems like you don't even have a character that would have any business at any of these contested camps

If you're going to just copy & paste my words, at least do so in a manner that makes sense.

This is even worse than "I know you are, but what am I?! I know you are but what am I?!"

You can call the sky green all day, but it wont change the fact that it's blue.

[soup]

Most of eq camps revolves around waiting in line. We wait in line, until it is our turn. We create 'lists'.



And yes, that is why I said it would be ridiculous. I don't think the fish works, unless it is the ONLY spot for fish. The best fishing spot implies there are other good spots around, but we were not talking about exp camps, we were talking about loot camps, no? If it was the only camp site in the world, do you honestly think it would work that way? Or would the law step in to create waiting lists, and reservations to avoid incidents. Go to a gym, and play some b ball. Some gyms hey pick 'next'. Some have sign up sheets they use for 'next'. Some times the sheets are frauds as they sign up 6 times with nicknames to ensure they get their team. Whenever people waiting for 'next' got passed over, I saw fights. Or gym management get involved, because they had established rules concerning 'next' because of said fights.

At this gym, the rules they chose to use are that whoever is at the camp and currently owns it continues to own it for as long as they want and can invite whoever they want or pass to whoever they want. It's really that simple.

All these analogies of "IRL the owner of the establishment uses lines!" are retarded because the owner of the establishment has set the rules. Saying "IRL it's like this!" means nothing when the people who are running the show here say it doesn't work like that.

[Labyrrinth]

That's exactly what we need, GM enforced camps.

Amazing idea; I'm sure Uthgaard won't cause any problems with that.

DTs for all !!! :):)