Mages are up shit’s creek I guess

[Dolalin]

Release era was anti magicians.

Dolalin just gathered evidence of classic EQ and documented it. Mages were not the only aspect of EQ affected by his diligence.

The only reason I looked into magicians at all is because poor skorge was getting ganged up on in that thread about mages and I wondered whether he might be right.

Turns out he was.

The truth is very unpopular.

[Jimjam]

Oh totally agree, EQ and it's classic timeline are far from perfect. Adding 1 vendor pet per level for mages was probably a good call (And it actually makes the research pets much easier, as you can bypass a lot of the research stages by buying one spell to upgrade to another). Not (release era) classic though.

I'd be really excited for Green 2.0 or even 3.0 be 'Everquest classic fixed' where little niggles and mistakes are removed from day 1. Maybe giving the classes which are strong solo AND group the penalties instead of the way they are currently structured, if not removing penalties entirely.

However, that is not what Green 1.0 is about.

Green 1.0 is experimental archaeology, i.e. digging up artifacts and try recreate the past as it was using the evidence and techniques available.

[fortior]

praise dolalin

sorry your mage class has to deal with a small inconvenience

[fugazi]

There's one positive to take away from this thread and that's when you find a mage in-game, you just tell them they can say goodbye to new pets past level 20. Most will succumb to a sudden existential crisis. They'll then start to ask you about what alt they should roll and this is how you know you've got them.

Congratulations, now there will be less competition for us non-mages as the player-formerly-known-as-mage gets to start at 1 once more.

[Gustoo]

Research isn't that hard. You only need 1 pet per pet cycle. Geez

[Benanov]

One thing I noted a few pages ago was the idea that Necros have to research all their pets, too. I don't know the era, but the ones that they don't have to research but can instead find in say, Grobb, or Oggok, or (eventually) Paineel?

Those are also Shadowknight pets. Shadowknights cannot research so they must purchase their spells. The Necromancer piggybacks off of this concession.

Mages have no equivalent, and as other people have stated - the research for pet at 34 requires the pet at 29, and that requires the pet at 24. That's 3 combines that can fail.

While in a few months the pet spells were added, it's only one per spell level.

This is still the case on blue. I had friends searching for Words of Dimension for the pet spells they couldn't purchase at that level. Some people just want to have options.

Research is hard. People know it's hard. It gets better, but it's part of the game.

This is why ALS even on blue allowed vendor mining for research components.

Classic WoW is --> that way.

[Nirgon]

Very wise, Brother Benanov.

[sentinel]

we'll look back on this as the "the great mage research crises" in a few months

[Chocolope]

Those are also Shadowknight pets. Shadowknights cannot research so they must purchase their spells. The Necromancer piggybacks off of this concession.


Incorrect.

Summon Dead (L29 Necro/49 SHD) is not on the vendors. SHD will have to find a necro to research this spell for them.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

There's one positive to take away from this thread and that's when you find a mage in-game, you just tell them they can say goodbye to new pets past level 20. Most will succumb to a sudden existential crisis. They'll then start to ask you about what alt they should roll and this is how you know you've got them.

Congratulations, now there will be less competition for us non-mages as the player-formerly-known-as-mage gets to start at 1 once more.

Sociopath. Narcissist. Hypocrite. Disgusting person! And therein lies the problem. Many of you seem to take delight in the misfortune of others, and not just on Green, this is a phenomena I've seen a lot on Blue as well. Why would you be happy that other players had to restart at level 1 after wasting the entire launch weekend? Oh that's right it's for purely selfish reasons.

What class are YOU playing? And no I won't reroll Ill just move to another, far more modern game. The Outer Worlds just released and Red Dead 2 is coming out next week. Enjoy living your life 20-years in the past spending 5 hours per-level on Classic EverQuest, though!

Believe it or not many Mage players picked Mage because it's an excellent GROUPING class. In my experience it's the Enchatners Necros Druid and Shamans who will be the least-social, most-solo-oriented players.

[skipdog]

Sociopath. Narcissist. Disgusting person! And therein lies the problem. Many of you seem to take delight in the misfortune of others. Why would you be happy that other players had to restart at level 1 after wasting the entire launch weekend?

What class are YOU playing? And no I won't reroll Ill just move to another, far more modern game. Enjoy living your life 20-years in the past spending 5 hours per-level, though!

Believe it or not many Mage players picked Mage because it's an excellent GROUPING class. In my experience it's the Enchatners Necros Druid and Shamans who will be the least-social, most-solo-oriented players.

Dude... he made a joke.

[Danger]

Sociopath. Narcissist. Hypocrite. Disgusting person! And therein lies the problem. Many of you seem to take delight in the misfortune of others, and not just on Green, this is a phenomena I've seen a lot on Blue as well. Why would you be happy that other players had to restart at level 1 after wasting the entire launch weekend? Oh that's right it's for purely selfish reasons.

What class are YOU playing? And no I won't reroll Ill just move to another, far more modern game. The Outer Worlds just released and Red Dead 2 is coming out next week. Enjoy living your life 20-years in the past spending 5 hours per-level on Classic EverQuest, though!

Believe it or not many Mage players picked Mage because it's an excellent GROUPING class. In my experience it's the Enchatners Necros Druid and Shamans who will be the least-social, most-solo-oriented players.

i thought u quit 5 pages ago

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Dude... he made a joke.

LOL based on my experience high-level end-game on Blue99 I'm sure he's serious. Those people absolutely DELIGHT in the opportunity to deny other players progress.

Or will you deny that too?

[skipdog]

LOL based on my experience high-level end-game on Blue99 I'm sure he's serious. Those people absolutely DELIGHT in the opportunity to deny other players progress.

Or will you deny that too?

Yes, I am 100% denying that he's serious and that it was 100% a joke.

Wow.

[Jimjam]

Did anyone manage to vendor or research Spell: Summon Paddle yet?

[sentinel]

LOL based on my experience high-level end-game on Blue99 I'm sure he's serious. Those people absolutely DELIGHT in the opportunity to deny other players progress.

Or will you deny that too?

put the keyboard down

back away

stay off computer

[NegaStoat]

Did anyone manage to vendor or research Spell: Summon Paddle yet?

Well, Summon Bandages originally would summon a number of bandages equal to half your level, rounded down, until you hit level 40 and they capped as a stack of 20 per single cast.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/spell.html?spell=318

On P1999 they're set at a default of 20 per cast which is a super great buff when you consider their dual use as toilet paper when you're marooned up shit creek.

[Jify]

Meh so? We had to make pets with P1999 originally came out. Deal with it, make friends, get your research skill up.

[Obrae]

Meh so? We had to make pets with P1999 originally came out. Deal with it, make friends, get your research skill up.

wouldl ike too but it cap at insane low amount :)

[Obrae]

Meh so? We had to make pets with P1999 originally came out. Deal with it, make friends, get your research skill up.

Oh and it got change really really fast once people have hit that level of content, players didnt have 20 years exp back then. Patch came when it was due cause of badly working idea that came with the release(beta)

[saftbudet]

Sociopath. Narcissist. Hypocrite. Disgusting person! And therein lies the problem. Many of you seem to take delight in the misfortune of others, and not just on Green, this is a phenomena I've seen a lot on Blue as well. Why would you be happy that other players had to restart at level 1 after wasting the entire launch weekend? Oh that's right it's for purely selfish reasons.

What class are YOU playing? And no I won't reroll Ill just move to another, far more modern game. The Outer Worlds just released and Red Dead 2 is coming out next week. Enjoy living your life 20-years in the past spending 5 hours per-level on Classic EverQuest, though!

Believe it or not many Mage players picked Mage because it's an excellent GROUPING class. In my experience it's the Enchatners Necros Druid and Shamans who will be the least-social, most-solo-oriented players.

lol you for sure made up your opinion on people beforehand. Chill some my friend, its just a game :-)

[Spock2020]

Many took mage because there was a thread about group of 6 mages killing vox and nagafen and that mage wouldn't need anybody else to zoom ahead of everybody else and how powerful the class was.Guess nobody thought about pet having to be research before a few days ago.

[gundumbwing]

You wacky mages. Just be grateful that the pet's you desperately need to research in order to efficiently level are still nerfed compared to actual classic levels. Mage pets are shit on p99 compared to original EQ.

Wait! Guess you won't be grateful for unclassic pet weakness on a server aimed at a "classic experience"!

[WaffleztheAndal]

Many took mage because there was a thread about group of 6 mages killing vox and nagafen and that mage wouldn't need anybody else to zoom ahead of everybody else and how powerful the class was.Guess nobody thought about pet having to be research before a few days ago.

Eh, 2/5. More effort needed.

[deezy]

the best i can figure, mcquad snorted dried mage tears before he had moved on to stronger substances.

[senna]

Kinda wanna make a mage now so I can join 20+ groups with my green pet and lmfao at everyone cuz shits classic :D:D:D

[Jimjam]

Highest mage (35?) is using a 24 air pet to help out his enchanter duo partner on pet breaks.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in EQ, server first 20 sk only just happened this morning.

[Obrae]

Highest mage (35?) is using a 24 air pet to help out his enchanter duo partner on pet breaks.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in EQ, server first 20 sk only just happened this morning.

And hes higest mage, so you can imagince how impossible is pet crafting in beta eq.

Imagine if he wanted the 34 pet.

Need to rebuy level 20
find all mats for 24, craft it
find all mats for 29, craft it
find all mats for 34, craft it

Must never fail, must never learn spell before the 34 one.

Then he wants 39 ? need to start all over again from buying level 20 pet and doing each steps.

Fun times, hes first mage and can't even get the mats for his pet 2 tier under

[Jimjam]

Fun times, hes first mage and can't even get the mats for his pet 2 tier under

This makes sense, as there are at most half a dozen people his level killing things that can drop research components. The more people killing those mobs the more likely the components are generated and distributed.

I have more sympathy for the server's highest SK who can't use his 22 pet than the server's highest mage that can use his 24 pet.

Not that the suffering of superpenalty hybrids discounts the suffering of the leading mages.

[Obrae]

This makes sense, as there are at most half a dozen people his level killing things that can drop research components. The more people killing those mobs the more likely the components are generated and distributed.

I have more sympathy for the server's highest SK who can't use his 22 pet than the server's highest mage that can use his 24 pet.

Not that the suffering of superpenalty hybrids discounts the suffering of the leading mages.

No will be more mages out, much more than what material will be dropping. It will be worse than it is now.

[Obrae]

No will be more mages out, much more than what material will be dropping. It will be worse than it is now.

And we know, because there was really few mages on classic and it was still not possible to get pets, so they fixed as soon as patch came out. Game was at an unfinished state, beta release.

[senna]

Everyone hating on mages, when really they are just good at levling. They help groups level, help shitty warriors keep threat with root pet, help farm plat for the economy etc

Wanna know the real enemy of your casual green 99er?

Wanna know who the real cabal is? The unseen hand spreading lies to you that mages are keeping you down?

Enchanters.

Chanters are the ones charm killing everything for insane exp. Enchanters are the ones that will be soloing your precious camps, while your groups sits on the sidelines with their dicks in hand from now until the server dies. Chanters are the ones that will be cackling to the bank with all your high end items. :D:D:D:D:D:D

[Cuktus]

Everyone hating on mages, when really they are just good at levling. They help groups level, help shitty warriors keep threat with root pet, help farm plat for the economy etc

Wanna know the real enemy of your casual green 99er?

Wanna know who the real cabal is? The unseen hand spreading lies to you that mages are keeping you down?

Enchanters.

Chanters are the ones charm killing everything for insane exp. Enchanters are the ones that will be soloing your precious camps, while your groups sits on the sidelines with their dicks in hand from now until the server dies. Chanters are the ones that will be cackling to the bank with all your high end items. :D:D:D:D:D:D

You need to stop hating on Chanters, let 'em teach you how to dress.

[Tecmos Deception]

I think the server isn't going to have a lot of enchanters that can solo freeti, lord, am, king, etc., at 50. Don't worry.

[Wenai]

I think the server isn't going to have a lot of enchanters that can solo freeti, lord, am, king, etc., at 50. Don't worry.

Blue did.

I think some necros were doing dead side guk camps like frenzy and such. But enchanters were definitely doing efreeti and king.

[Tecmos Deception]

Blue did.

I think some necros were doing dead side guk camps like frenzy and such. But enchanters were definitely doing efreeti and king.

Maybe my memory is hazy.

I played a necro back then and spent much of my time at 50 soloing lord and AM (holy fuck I wish I still had logs from back then). Chanters seemed to stick to frenzy and king, though I don't remember them at king very often and no more binding at the portal behind king will change the safety of that camp on green. And even necros have undergone some changes to make things harder, like no more "look at me FD around the corner while my charmed pet solos stuff in total safety."

I don't doubt it'll happen. But I doubt how reliably they'll be held down solo. Especially since blue back then didn't have the sort of population green almost certainly will maintain, so there weren't regularly groups around happy to swoop in when a chanter inevitably dies at one of these camps.

[Jibartik]

I de-leveled and did efreeti with my enchanter and after 1 death was like, Ill just assume that its not possible for at least me because I aint doing that clear again.

[Tecmos Deception]

I de-leveled and did efreeti with my enchanter and after 1 death was like, Ill just assume that its not possible for at least me because I aint doing that clear again.

Yeah freeti isn't trivial at 60 and king can be tricky even at 54+.

[Jibartik]

The king was dooable tho (if we talking frog king?) (died a few times but was no matter that camp is so forgiving lol)

Which reminds me that characters corpse has been rotted for like 2 months eep.

[oldhead]

Research was put into the game as a brake on casters powering through content in a couple weeks. It's a timesink specifically designed for launch so Verant wouldn't lose their shirts. It serves its designed purpose pretty well imo.

No it was not. That is a just an assumption with a biased agenda.

[oldhead]

So how long until Green has mage pets? Need to know how long I need to self my mage for.

[Jibartik]

Mages only have pets until 20 or 24 at which point they become research and are far to difficult to obtain by any player whatsoever.

[Obrae]

Mage was broken in the same post that dolalin guy used to break the class here you can read the evidence. Also you can read that pet only took 25% exp.

But staff here just decided to break the class

[Baler]

Is necro level 28 pet really a vendor spell?

[Obrae]

Games were not patched weekly, its a fixed they wanted to make probably even before they released the game, the dev had said the magician research wasnt fleshed out at release.

[senna]

That dolalin guy is a terrible reference and I'm shocked the devs even listen to that guy, its clear he fucking hates mages lmao

[Obrae]

That dolalin guy is a terrible reference and I'm shocked the devs even listen to that guy, its clear he fucking hates mages lmao

I don't think he hates mage, he just research things out of context. Defenitly dosent know what classic everquest was like, so we cherry pick implementation of things that didnt matter cause 2 month was nothing back then.


So basically we are already passed the point when this was fixed. It was an unfinished class. and now we will drag an unfinished class way to far into progression for no reason.

[bwe]

Mage pets are apparently OP but enchanter charm is *kisses fingers* just right

[Danger]

if only OP had as many research pages as there are pages of mad in this thread.

[Bazia]

the tears sustain me, ez mode cryers BTFO

[cd288]

No it was not. That is a just an assumption with a biased agenda.

Agreed. It definitely wasn't put there because they were purposefully worried about casters powering through the game and trying to create a gating item due to that specifically. They didn't know much at all about how classes would pan out down the road (this whole Mage thing and how they made that change a couple months in is a good example of that; they simply had no idea how things were going to play out...and if Research was added in as a gating mechanism for casters why would they then quickly agree to remove Research as a requirement for a critical element of Mages lol).

[Valion]

Come on where is the vitrtol I made more popcorn.

[cd288]

You guys are both wrong, hes referring to green, not classic EQ. This whole thing was implemented on green to slow down mages. :D:D:D

/s?

[LittleJClove]

You guys are both wrong, hes referring to green, not classic EQ. This whole thing was implemented on green to slow down mages. :D:D:D
wow so sounds like bad.

Nerf bat on mages. no wonder mages have so much Rages here.

[Obrae]

wow so sounds like bad.

Nerf bat on mages. no wonder mages have so much Rages here.

They dont even have the right loot tables either for words, just a big mess.
They went blind, its serious if people dont quit, you'll start seeing high level mage monopolizing camps in lower level dungeons since all their pets needs the basic components that is crazy rare on this blue loot table server.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I don't think he hates mage

He certainly has a bias against Mages. Just look at some of his posts/threads regarding the issue and you can see he takes delight in knowing that Mages got nerfed.

He also repeatedly alludes to a "surprise for Enchanters" as well - but refuses to point out that "surprise" is. Which is horseshit because I personally know of at least half a dozen Mages who have quit and/or rerolled after this thread was created.

They (we) simply wouldn't have rolled Mage had we known about this. I chose Mage over Necro specifically because I thought I would have at least one pet every spell level, with the OPTION of researching additional pets for increased utility. If I wanted to be required to research ALL my pets, I would've just rolled a Necromancer instead.

The irony there being that Necros are all-around stronger than Mages anyways. Not even mentioning the absurd power-level of Enchanters.

[Bazia]

just research them, it was common on blue at launch for people to research stuff as well or pay someone else to research it for you

this isn't as a big a deal as you guys are making it to be

[Obrae]

just research them, it was common on blue at launch for people to research stuff as well or pay someone else to research it for you

this isn't as a big a deal as you guys are making it to be

You cannot, no words drops. All necro words. we do 20hour camps with no drops.
Learn what it takes to research as a mage you will understand.

[Obrae]

just research them, it was common on blue at launch for people to research stuff as well or pay someone else to research it for you

this isn't as a big a deal as you guys are making it to be

you can't even train your skill cause no magician components drops.

[Obrae]

You need to understand its not that Mages don't want to play the game of research they just can't.

Materials do not drop, can't raise skill for crap. Imagine when more mage gets of the right level. No more monsters will be killed than doday, the zones are filled. The stress on needs for materials will only go up.

Game is badly itemized, there is no way for most magician to ever get pets. Just look at the number of 30 magician growing day by day still mostly on 20 pets or 24 if they got lucky. But it wont get much better.

Don't forget, you want the 49 pet ?

1. Go OOT buy a 16 pet
2. Find all ultra rare mats for the 20 pet combine.
3. Find all the ultra rare components for the 24 pet, combine with 20 scroll
4. Find all the ultra rare components for the 29 pet, combine with 24 scroll
5. Find all the ultra rare components for the 34 pet, combine with 29 scroll
6. Find all the ultra rare components for the 39 pet, combine with 34 scroll
7. Find all the ultra rare components for the 44 pet, combine with 39 scroll
8. Find all the ultra rare components for the 49 pet, combine qith 44 scroll
There! if you didnt miss a single combine, you have 1 pet.
Each time you learn a pet a chain must be started back from beginning.

That system never worked. They changed it as soon as they could after release.

[oldhead]

He certainly has a bias against Mages. Just look at some of his posts/threads regarding the issue and you can see he takes delight in knowing that Mages got nerfed.

He also repeatedly alludes to a "surprise for Enchanters" as well - but refuses to point out that "surprise" is. Which is horseshit because I personally know of at least half a dozen Mages who have quit and/or rerolled after this thread was created.

They (we) simply wouldn't have rolled Mage had we known about this. I chose Mage over Necro specifically because I thought I would have at least one pet every spell level, with the OPTION of researching additional pets for increased utility. If I wanted to be required to research ALL my pets, I would've just rolled a Necromancer instead.

The irony there being that Necros are all-around stronger than Mages anyways. Not even mentioning the absurd power-level of Enchanters.

I picked mage over necro cus I thought necros would be more played of the two... I was correct and now I know why.

[skorge]

You need to understand its not that Mages don't want to play the game of research they just can't.

Materials do not drop, can't raise skill for crap. Imagine when more mage gets of the right level. No more monsters will be killed than doday, the zones are filled. The stress on needs for materials will only go up.

Game is badly itemized, there is no way for most magician to ever get pets. Just look at the number of 30 magician growing day by day still mostly on 20 pets or 24 if they got lucky. But it wont get much better.

Don't forget, you want the 49 pet ?

1. Go OOT buy a 16 pet
2. Find all ultra rare mats for the 20 pet combine.
3. Find all the ultra rare components for the 24 pet, combine with 20 scroll
4. Find all the ultra rare components for the 29 pet, combine with 24 scroll
5. Find all the ultra rare components for the 34 pet, combine with 29 scroll
6. Find all the ultra rare components for the 39 pet, combine with 34 scroll
7. Find all the ultra rare components for the 44 pet, combine with 39 scroll
8. Find all the ultra rare components for the 49 pet, combine qith 44 scroll
There! if you didnt miss a single combine, you have 1 pet.
Each time you learn a pet a chain must be started back from beginning.

That system never worked. They changed it as soon as they could after release.

Wrong. They changed it on May 26, along with adding spells to pets. Before this patch pets were not able to cast spells. You are lucky they left that in on P99.

This is classic, until the May 26 patch.

[oldhead]

This is classic, until the May 26 patch.

When will that patch go live on green?

[skorge]

71 days after the launch, lol trying to do the math correctly...it's late; january 4, 2020

[Vexenu]

Mages who stick it out will be glad they did once they see those focused level 49 pets in action.

[Obrae]

Wrong. They changed it on May 26, along with adding spells to pets. Before this patch pets were not able to cast spells. You are lucky they left that in on P99.

This is classic, until the May 26 patch.

wrong they changed it as fast as they could.

1998 was another time.
we are nothing like 1998 community. people were level 7 after a month :)

[cd288]

Wrong. They changed it on May 26, along with adding spells to pets. Before this patch pets were not able to cast spells. You are lucky they left that in on P99.

This is classic, until the May 26 patch.

Yeah and they changed it once they realized it was an absolutely terrible design decision. And I’m speaking as someone who doesn’t play a Mage and has zero interest in playing one, and it’s still a terrible design

[Obrae]

Mages who stick it out will be glad they did once they see those focused level 49 pets in action.

we all know what they can do and its not the gods of EQ far from it. We have all been playing that game for 20 years or close.

Most of you never played the first couple months :) It shows in here.

[skorge]

wrong they changed it as fast as they could.

1998 was another time.
we are nothing like 1998 community. people were level 7 after a month :)

Not true bud. 71 days is not as fast as they could. They made "enhancements" to the class during this patch which added the ability for pets to cast spells, and in the process they added 1 pet to the vendor in OOT.

As fast as they could would be like the day 2 rogue patch where rogues had like no abilities on launch day and was patched in super fast...

[cd288]

Not true bud. 71 days is not as fast as they could. They made "enhancements" to the class during this patch which added the ability for pets to cast spells, and in the process they added 1 pet to the vendor in OOT.

As fast as they could would be like the day 2 rogue patch where rogues had like no abilities on launch day and was patched in super fast...

Quit arguing pointless semantics. Once they realized the class as originally designed was terrible design, they fixed it and, when they felt those fixes weren’t sufficient, made more changes.

[skorge]

Yeah and they changed it once they realized it was an absolutely terrible design decision. And I’m speaking as someone who doesn’t play a Mage and has zero interest in playing one, and it’s still a terrible design

^ is irrelevant though. We are not debating what should have been done or should not have. We will NEVER know. All we know is WHEN stuff got changed. This is a classic emu emulating those dates.

[skorge]

Quit arguing pointless semantics. Once they realized the class as originally designed was terrible design, they fixed it and, when they felt those fixes weren’t sufficient, made more changes.

So? This is for every, single patch made in EQ...lol...are you saying manastone shouldn't even be in the game since they removed them? Maybe jboots shouldn't be dropping in Najena now since they changed it to be a quest. You can apply this to every, single patch made in EQ bud.

Oh and btw, it's you guys arguing the point, not me.

[cd288]

^ is irrelevant though. We are not debating what should have been done or should not have. We will NEVER know. All we know is WHEN stuff got changed. This is a classic emu emulating those dates.

Okay, so how do you feel about all the non-classic aspects of the server? Are you okay with those? Or should things like pets not taking any EXP be in on day 1 to mirror classic launch?

[Obrae]

Not true bud. 71 days is not as fast as they could. They made "enhancements" to the class during this patch which added the ability for pets to cast spells, and in the process they added 1 pet to the vendor in OOT.

As fast as they could would be like the day 2 rogue patch where rogues had like no abilities on launch day and was patched in super fast...

1998 isnt 2019, first 3d mmo, wasnt patched so easily

[Obrae]

^ is irrelevant though. We are not debating what should have been done or should not have. We will NEVER know. All we know is WHEN stuff got changed. This is a classic emu emulating those dates.

Classic had no exp penalty for pets

[Vizax_Xaziv]

You cannot, no words drops. All necro words. we do 20hour camps with no drops.
Learn what it takes to research as a mage you will understand.

Buutt nnnnooooo dude it's "just a couple research pages" you lazy fucking overpowered Mage! My Enchanter has to research one slow two roots and SEVERAL debuffs!

(/s)

[skorge]

1998 isnt 2019, first 3d mmo, wasnt patched so easily

Did you even play on launch day? The game was actually patched several times in the first week...not sure how you can come on these forums and debate something when you know NOTHING about classic launch.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Mages who stick it out will be glad they did once they see those focused level 49 pets in action.

I mean yea, we all know how great Mage pets are during Classic! On the other hand, they're nowhere NEAR as strong an Enchanter's charmed pet in Classic, let alone onwards!

[cd288]

Did you even play on launch day? The game was actually patched several times in the first week...not sure how you can come on these forums and debate something when you know NOTHING about classic launch.

Are you going to answer my question about the non-classic nature of multiple things on the server?

[TanDemain]

I loved researching my spells on blue. I would go to the zones that had the pages, farm it, and bam. What's the problem?

[Obrae]

I loved researching my spells on blue. I would go to the zones that had the pages, farm it, and bam. What's the problem?

Dosent work like this cause you never have a base pet to research with.
And materials do not drop.
And all players are leveling at same time, not just your odd alt here and there.
Also you can't train the skill for crap, its caps insanely low.

like 45 at level 25 or so. Can't trivialize spells combine. And no one have money so can't afford to train research cause your combine, which you can't do because words don't drop cost 10pp a pop, the lower ones.

Oh and you can't farm either cause the zones are camped zone hard you barely get kills.

[oldhead]

I loved researching my spells on blue. I would go to the zones that had the pages, farm it, and bam. What's the problem?

Pretend you are a Cleric. You have no heal spells past 20 unless you research. No heal spells. Not just needed to do some research for a few good ones each level.

It why the put the shitty pets on the vendors and made your search the good pets. Every few spells levels allowed a good pet from the vendor.

[Obrae]

Pretend you are a Cleric. You have no heal spells past 20 unless you research. No heal spells. Not just needed to do some research for a few good ones each level.

It why the put the shitty pets on the vendors and made your search the good pets. Every few spells levels allowed a good pet from the vendor.

Except its not the fact that we have to research that is the problem. Its how mage researched was put together. With a single combine necessiting maybe 50 ingredients and 5-6 different combine of material that dosent drop (HERE)

Cause we have no way of knowing how it dropped back then. All we know is that on p99 loot tables are way different. And mage materials don't drop.

[oldhead]

I mean, honestly, half the people complaining about the mage pets probably not going to be 29+ (the point where a 20 pet is going to REALLY start to suck) until the vendor pets get patched in anyway.

When will the patch hit green?

[WaffleztheAndal]

When will the patch hit green?

January 4th approximately.

[Tecmos Deception]

Dosent work like this cause you never have a base pet to research with.
And materials do not drop.
And all players are leveling at same time, not just your odd alt here and there.
Also you can't train the skill for crap, its caps insanely low.

like 45 at level 25 or so. Can't trivialize spells combine. And no one have money so can't afford to train research cause your combine, which you can't do because words don't drop cost 10pp a pop, the lower ones.

Oh and you can't farm either cause the zones are camped zone hard you barely get kills.


I was going to post and say that I think what mobs drop what types of research components isn't totally random. Then I realized that of the 12-15 components I've seen killing mid-teens mobs in the last few day, none of them were mage components.

Maybe this mob is programmed to drop randomly EXCEPT mage components. But that seems a bit odd, so I can see why you're thinking mage components just don't drop.

[Obrae]

I was going to post and say that I think what mobs drop what types of research components isn't totally random. Then I realized that of the 12-15 components I've seen killing mid-teens mobs in the last few day, none of them were mage components.

Maybe this mob is programmed to drop randomly EXCEPT mage components. But that seems a bit odd, so I can see why you're thinking mage components just don't drop.

Yeah its an exaggeration, i know they drop.
But the chance for our word is way too small. Components like ice of velious,gloves of rallos zek are rare, but nothing compare to words.

Hitting 30 tonight, been killing tons of mobs with groups both in Sol A and L guk, a bit in najena.

Up to now i have seen 1 word of dimension. Other mage i see have the same experience.

Meanwhile, enchanters and necromancer need to combine as they play cause their bags are filles with components. I trash necro words and wizards rune by the dozens at merchants cause they drop like candy.

Defenitly, the loot table is not tweaked to all research pet.

[magusfire24]

If you get a canoe and start paddling you can still find some look in that shitty creek. Might need to wash it off but still there.

Things are game breaking

[Deathrydar]

Meanwhile, enchanters and necromancer need to combine as they play cause their bags are filles with components. I trash necro words and wizards rune by the dozens at merchants cause they drop like candy.

Defenitly, the loot table is not tweaked to all research pet.
If you find Words of the Sentient (Azia) I will pay. Let me know plz!

[Tecmos Deception]

If you find Words of the Sentient (Azia) I will pay. Let me know plz!

I have 3 of them in WK right now, lol.

Locomotive is the name.

[port9001]

This thread confuses me.

I think we can all agree the current implementation is not very good. That is not in question.

But...

Isn't the point of this server, and in particular green, to emulate the classic timeline of EverQuest? If you prefer how SOE changed the mechanics months later and can't wait, why not play on blue? What's the point of a classic timelined server that violates the timeline constantly?

(For the record, IMO pets should be getting full xp and all the other dumb mechanics SOE launched with should be in right now, but not my server)

[jakeojohnson]

I'd reroll the mage epic is a 1000 times worse

[Obrae]

This thread confuses me.

I think we can all agree the current implementation is not very good. That is not in question.

But...

Isn't the point of this server, and in particular green, to emulate the classic timeline of EverQuest? If you prefer how SOE changed the mechanics months later and can't wait, why not play on blue? What's the point of a classic timelined server that violates the timeline constantly?

(For the record, IMO pets should be getting full xp and all the other dumb mechanics SOE launched with should be in right now, but not my server)

Loot tables are not right, it has nothing to do with timeline. If words would drop for the mechanic to work, there wouldnt be any problem, it would just be tedious and expensive.

[Palemoon]

Loot tables are not right, it has nothing to do with timeline. If words would drop for the mechanic to work, there wouldnt be any problem, it would just be tedious and expensive.

Research has shown that in the beginning word drops were 3x more rare than later.

Enjoy this authentic classic experience.

[Obrae]

Research has shown that in the beginning word drops were 3x more rare than later.

Enjoy this authentic classic experience.

To be exact, the re was no drop at the beginnig as the developpers back then admitted the class wasnt finished at launch.

[loramin]

Research has shown that in the beginning word drops were 3x more rare than later.

Enjoy this authentic classic experience.

Research has also shown mage pets didn't used to eat half the exp. "Classic experience" seems to be applied pretty one-sided against mages, a class that has nothing to look forward to in the future and so really doesn't need extra special nerfing in classic.

[Palemoon]

Research has also shown mage pets didn't used to eat half the exp. "Classic experience" seems to be applied pretty one-sided against mages, a class that has nothing to look forward to in the future and so really doesn't need extra special nerfing in classic.

I see that as a round about way to simulate classic and counteract our knowledge of the game and mechanics.

[Dolalin]

Research has also shown mage pets didn't used to eat half the exp. "Classic experience" seems to be applied pretty one-sided against mages, a class that has nothing to look forward to in the future and so really doesn't need extra special nerfing in classic.

I'm still waiting to see this mythical research showing there was a time when pets weren't eating 50% xp.

I want to see it. Please point me to it.

Everything I've read so far shows that the ShowEQ guys found pets were eating 50% of xp from the very first time they started looking at xp values in late 99 / early 2000.

[Frug]

Research has also shown mage pets didn't used to eat half the exp. "Classic experience" seems to be applied pretty one-sided against mages, a class that has nothing to look forward to in the future and so really doesn't need extra special nerfing in classic.

"classic" seems to be applied one-sided to the "harder" side, although mages have taken more than their share, for sure.

Given a choice of a harder or easier "feature", it'll be the harder one. "because classic" if it's classic, "because, uhm, we think we know what was intended" if not. I wish they'd stop the charade.

[Obrae]

I'm still waiting to see this mythical research showing there was a time when pets weren't eating 50% xp.

I want to see it. Please point me to it.

Read the threads that you link when you spew them.

[Obrae]

"classic" seems to be applied one-sided to the "harder" side, although mages have taken more than their share, for sure.

Given a choice of a harder or easier "feature", it'll be the harder one. "because classic" if it's classic, "because, uhm, we think we know what was intended" if not. I wish they'd stop the charade.

Exactly classic as nothing to do with launch, all thos nerds didnt even knew the game existed back then and it shows.

[cd288]

Research has also shown mage pets didn't used to eat half the exp. "Classic experience" seems to be applied pretty one-sided against mages, a class that has nothing to look forward to in the future and so really doesn't need extra special nerfing in classic.

Yeah it's kind of strange. There seem to be a couple select individuals here who are obsessed with applying what they deem to be the "classic experience" to other people and classes, even if they aren't playing those classes themselves. It's ironic though, because again, it's not actually 100% the classic experience, because those same people would be against applying the no pet EXP split that you mentioned; so essentially they're obsessed with ensuring that other people have the negative parts of classic launch inflicted upon the person's class, but not any part of classic that made things easier for that class.

Makes me wonder what those select individuals are like in the real world if they're so focused on making sure that things are as difficult and/or annoying as possible for other people when it has no effect on those select individuals.

[Tecmos Deception]

"classic" seems to be applied one-sided to the "harder" side, although mages have taken more than their share, for sure.

Given a choice of a harder or easier "feature", it'll be the harder one. "because classic" if it's classic, "because, uhm, we think we know what was intended" if not. I wish they'd stop the charade.

Quit yer bellyachin'

[cd288]

I'm still waiting to see this mythical research showing there was a time when pets weren't eating 50% xp.

I want to see it. Please point me to it.

Everything I've read so far shows that the ShowEQ guys found pets were eating 50% of xp from the very first time they started looking at xp values in late 99 / early 2000.

With all due respect, some of the evidence that shows pets weren't eating EXP, while may not necessarily be direct evidence, is equivalent to the level of proof that the staff has accepted for many other changes.

But you're one of those people who wants the harder parts of classic but wants to remove anything that could make it easier (which is fine, you're entitled to your opinion on the matter, but then you can't really use a "because classic" argument), so why bother engaging in a discussion with you.

[oldhead]

This thread confuses me.

I think we can all agree the current implementation is not very good. That is not in question.

But...

Isn't the point of this server, and in particular green, to emulate the classic timeline of EverQuest? If you prefer how SOE changed the mechanics months later and can't wait, why not play on blue? What's the point of a classic timelined server that violates the timeline constantly?

(For the record, IMO pets should be getting full xp and all the other dumb mechanics SOE launched with should be in right now, but not my server)


Problem with the "but it is classic" argument is that it is selectively classic. Things are not implemented because they will be patched out shortly. Not implemented because it would be too harsh. Not implemented for balance to be true to how the game should be.


Right now we should be able to loot other peoples corpses when they die. All kids of nasty foul stuff like that when the game was released. Also things that will make classes overpowered are selectively left out , like being able to afk farm with pet.

[Dolalin]

So none of you can link to any research showing pets weren't eating xp at launch? I don't think I'm asking for much here.

[oldhead]

So none of you can link to any research showing pets weren't eating xp at launch? I don't think I'm asking for much here.

Can you link that they were?

[cd288]

So none of you can link to any research showing pets weren't eating xp at launch? I don't think I'm asking for much here.

This conversation has been had a million times. People have linked evidence over the past couple weeks. Go back through the lengthy posts and find it if you'd like.

[Dolalin]

Can you link that they were?

Yes, back to November 1999 at least:


11/30/99

I performed a test as Alasdair suggested to determine how much
experience pets take. For each test I rolled a new character, and
provided him with "Cavorting Bones" and a few bone chips. The test was
performed by battling only large rats at the North Qeynos gate area in
various configurations of player and pet. The player was armed only
with the standard dagger and no armor or clothing. The test counts the
number of rats it takes to get to level 2. All characters were rolled
with the following stats:
All Male, Human Necromancers.
STR 90
STA 80
AGI 75
DEX 90
WIS 75
INT 90
CHA 75

Test #1
Subject: Fridgemagnet
Conditions: No pet was used.
Number of kills until level 2: 10

Test #2
Subject: Jamrambler
Conditions: Pet was conjured, but instructed to sit and never attacked.
Number of kills until level 2: 10

Test #3
Subject: Soupgnasher
Conditions: Have pet do most damage (>50%). 1 4pt lifetap issued to
make sure rat does not kill pet.
Number of kills until level 2: 20
Notes: Pet issued 18/20 killing blows. (I had to step in on 2 occasions
to prevent pet from getting killed)

Test #4
Subject: Bubblegum
Conditions: Player did more damage than pet (>50%). Pet was told to
continually back off.
Number of kills until level 2: 10
Notes: Although backing off, pet managed to get in 5 killing blows.

Miscellaneous notes:
- In every test, an equal amount of experience was gained for each kill.

Conclusions:
- In test #4, as pet got in 5 killing blows and it did not effect how
much experience was gained, we can put the killing blow myth to rest.
- If pet issues more than 50% of the damage required to kill a mob, it
is given 50% of the experience, and the player is given the other 50%.
- If pet issues less than 50% of the damage required to kill a mob, the
player is given what appears to be ALL of the experience (perhaps the
<=1% party experience rule applies here... not way to tell).

Any comments? Anyone care to confirm these results? Any speculation as
to other race/class combos effecting experience distribution?

Roger


https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/sImSW-u04uY/bb3GvXeOpl8J

I really wanna be proven wrong on this but none of you are helping.

Can you tell me when this 'Nerf' went in? That would help me track it down.

[Obrae]

Yes, back to November 1999 at least:



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/sImSW-u04uY/bb3GvXeOpl8J

I really wanna be proven wrong on this but none of you are helping.

Can you tell me when this 'Nerf' went in? That would help me track it down.

Dude, that’s November almost décembre... why do you think it’s Suddenly tested?

[Skosh]

Interesting. So on old retail it wasn't even the slightest bit of the Verant staff deliberately waiting for more data or some other reason to add the selected Magician pets to vendors that we saw after launch. As soon as the players posted evidence of a broken situation, the staff gave it a 'next day' fix. And even more, it appears that it happened as a stealth fix so that they wouldn't lose face.

Hilarious. The decision making for this Green server just took the most entertaining of turns. I guess the real question now would be - since it was Classic for Verant to immediately fix a broken class situation with the pets on old retail, will it be a move to preserve that classic environment here on this Emu?

[Ligma]

Yep, its impressive the amount of work put in to making this a classic server.

No one ever said EQ was a perfect game. In fact, every expansion following the less than perfect release was unfinished in some way.

[Benanov]

Yall are playing mages on a busted timeline. When the problems were brought to light in the first link a few months after high level mages started using research, they were patched and fix immediately

That *is* the timeline. That's what happened. If you want to play a "classic" server that starts with the vision the devs were going for, that is not Green.

This is the equivalent of replaying an old console game.

I like the Final Fantasy Tactics series. I like Disgaea, etc.

I went back and played the original Final Fantasy Tactics on my PS2. The QoL improvements between FFT, FFTA, and FFTA2 are amazing. In the later two games you can undo a move (you cannot in FFT) - you know what classes are available to unlock later, whereas you have no idea in FFT that the class even exists until you unlock it. (FFTA2 has you unlock some via quests, but the slot for them is visible at game start, and you can always see which job can equip an item, even if you can't get that job yet).

You can't change equipment before a battle starts - once you start a battle, you pick your squad and that's it. No equipment changes, no seeing who you're fighting before you decide who you pick. The fog of war is brutal.

In later games, you see the entire battlefield, and what enemies you're fighting, and then you can completely reequip your toons as you see fit. Then the battle starts. Your out is basically to lose and reload a save or reset and reload or save - or trudge through with what you picked.

This is a read-only CD game, so there are no patches.

The initial adjustment back to the way of life of the old game is hard.

That's what Green is. You're playing the old game, warts and all, like we all did on live those first days. With vastly better computers and internet connections, 20 years of research and lore, and the game crashes a hell of a lot less. I'm playing FFT on a PS2, not the original PS hardware, so the load times are faster. and I have gamefaqs.

But it's still the old game.

[cd288]

That *is* the timeline. That's what happened. If you want to play a "classic" server that starts with the vision the devs were going for, that is not Green.

The problem with this statement is that it actually is Green sometimes. The staff have made multiple changes to what is in place on Green launch based on things that the devs were going for that were fixed/patched later in the timeline. There's many things that were changed later in the timeline that, as of Green launch, are in the state they were following the later change. And this is because the staff decided that the changes the devs made back in the day were to fix an exploit, fix terrible design/balance issues, or otherwise bring things in line with what the devs' real vision for EQ was and therefore they should be reflected on Green launch rather than patched later.

It's selectively classic. I don't really care that it's selectively classic, because it's a private server and the staff can do what they want, but people need to stop making the argument you're trying to make when there are multiple ways that the server is quite literally not fully accurate to the timeline/what classic EQ was at launch.

[port9001]

What relevance does it have that SOE patched it right away? In this server that endeavors to recreate the timeline of patches it wouldn’t make sense to include some patches earlier than others.

I’ll ask again: if you don’t like how green works why not play on blue?

[cd288]

What relevance does it have that SOE patched it right away? In this server that endeavors to recreate the timeline of patches it wouldn’t make sense to include some patches earlier than others.

I’ll ask again: if you don’t like how green works why not play on blue?

I think the reason people cite that as evidence is because the staff has made other changes to Green launch rather than waiting to do it in accordance with the timeline because the EQ devs changed something quickly once they realized it was a bad design decision. Yet for other changes that were made later on when the EQ devs realized it was terrible design, those are still following the "classic timeline". People are just frustrated with the selectively classic decision-making I think.

[Valion]

Yes, back to November 1999 at least:



https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/sImSW-u04uY/bb3GvXeOpl8J

I really wanna be proven wrong on this but none of you are helping.

Can you tell me when this 'Nerf' went in? That would help me track it down.
Where are the log files ShowEQ or otherwise backing this up ? Even Rodger is asking "Anyone care to confirm these results?" LOL that's your "Evidence" ?

[Ligma]

Yet, despite all the research over the past TEN years you decide that there are classic things, that weren't completely abused beyond recognition, that right now are not classic. Provide evidence stronger than has already been and it will be changed.

Besides /med which we all know was a thing

[port9001]

I think the reason people cite that as evidence is because the staff has made other changes to Green launch rather than waiting to do it in accordance with the timeline because the EQ devs changed something quickly once they realized it was a bad design decision. Yet for other changes that were made later on when the EQ devs realized it was terrible design, those are still following the "classic timeline". People are just frustrated with the selectively classic decision-making I think.

I agree that is frustrating. I don’t know why certain things don’t follow timeline while others do. At the same time I don’t feel like advocating for MORE things to be wrong makes any sense.

[Obrae]

What relevance does it have that SOE patched it right away? In this server that endeavors to recreate the timeline of patches it wouldn’t make sense to include some patches earlier than others.

I’ll ask again: if you don’t like how green works why not play on blue?

Blue is 10years old.

No one plays green to relive bugs and exploits. Even if youd think it’s the case reading this forum.

People all wanted a Fresh start on a new server that will follow a reasonnable Time progression. Warriors, mages and all the class. The obsession of re-emulating bad mechanics, bugs, exploits is just crazy. At the same Time those hardcore trolls Ask for baby mechanics like the list system. So incoherent.

[Ligma]

No one plays green to relive bugs and exploits. Even if youd think it’s the case reading this forum.

Is that why so many people are racing towards items that are nerfed over lvl 50?

[TheRusty]

Is that why so many people are racing towards items that are nerfed over lvl 50?

Gotta get the glory and prestige of being a server first on an emu of a 20 year old mmo :D

[Obrae]

Obrae hitting the nail on the head

And all these classic timeline concern trolls dont actually care about said timeline, they are just pissed that some mages can level fast, to the point of them wanting broken mechanics enabled

What a puzzling stance

Not like we won’t have 5-6 level 50 really fast. It would be just more fun to have the components at least drop like the other classes. Ultimately all kill have the potential to be glorious if words and items drop a little bit.

Leveled 22-29 killing non-stop 24+ in groups ( sola, lguk, najena and mistmoore). Spent more time in sola and lguk.

During that time we got
1xword of dimension.
3xgloves of rallos zek
1xjade shard
2xpearl shard
2xice of velious
2xword of trenscendence (not for pet, still cool for food and water 20 stack)

We got around
30-35 runes maybe more
20-25 pages
60-80 necro words

So 2 long industrial killing days in group, 1 single word for pet lv 24. Went to another lucky mage.

We will see if coercion is as bad, still ned dimension anyway since previous tier spell scrolls are needed for all pets.

There defenetly is not a 2% drop rate on words for mages.

[Obrae]

Is that why so many people are racing towards items that are nerfed over lvl 50?

Achievments is a stupid idea catters to all the unicorn lovers 😁

[Obrae]

Sounds pretty terrible.

If you're a mage and you haven't stopped playing yet, now is a pretty good time to do that.

I never solo so it dosent really affects me that much, but i did start my necro earlier than i anticipated.

[cd288]

Not like we won’t have 5-6 level 50 really fast. It would be just more fun to have the components at least drop like the other classes. Ultimately all kill have the potential to be glorious if words and items drop a little bit.

Leveled 22-29 killing non-stop 24+ in groups ( sola, lguk, najena and mistmoore). Spent more time in sola and lguk.

During that time we got
1xword of dimension.
3xgloves of rallos zek
1xjade shard
2xpearl shard
2xice of velious
2xword of trenscendence (not for pet, still cool for food and water 20 stack)

We got around
30-35 runes maybe more
20-25 pages
60-80 necro words

So 2 long industrial killing days in group, 1 single word for pet lv 24. Went to another lucky mage.

We will see if coercion is as bad, still ned dimension anyway since previous tier spell scrolls are needed for all pets.

There defenetly is not a 2% drop rate on words for mages.

Oh yeah word rates for Mages right now are extremely low. And I don't even play a Mage

[Valion]

Not like we won’t have 5-6 level 50 really fast. It would be just more fun to have the components at least drop like the other classes. Ultimately all kill have the potential to be glorious if words and items drop a little bit.

Leveled 22-29 killing non-stop 24+ in groups ( sola, lguk, najena and mistmoore). Spent more time in sola and lguk.

During that time we got
1xword of dimension.
3xgloves of rallos zek
1xjade shard
2xpearl shard
2xice of velious
2xword of trenscendence (not for pet, still cool for food and water 20 stack)

We got around
30-35 runes maybe more
20-25 pages
60-80 necro words

So 2 long industrial killing days in group, 1 single word for pet lv 24. Went to another lucky mage.

We will see if coercion is as bad, still ned dimension anyway since previous tier spell scrolls are needed for all pets.

There defenetly is not a 2% drop rate on words for mages.
This pretty much mirrors what I saw during the beta.

[Dolalin]

If you think mage words are dropping too rarely, sounds like the makings of a good bug post to me.

[cd288]

If you think mage words are dropping too rarely, sounds like the makings of a good bug post to me.

The selectively classic crowd will just say unless we can provide explicit patch note evidence that mage words should be X rate, that no change should be made because otherwise it would make it easier for mages. And then they'll go show you a forum post from some random dude from sometime in 1999 saying he knows what the drop rate is and it's X low frequency, so that's proof of what the drop rate should be.

[Dolalin]

I think you could go right to Magelo and ask Telin to check that the drop rates match, and he might oblige.

[Valion]

Dolalin already posted a patch note containing an increase in mage words dropping in some other bug report. By the time that patch rolls around the pet spells will already be added to the vendors . ie lost cause. I just haven't found it yet mainly because there is no point and I'm sure he already knows it.

[Keza]

Imagine defending a broken mechanic :D :D :D :D :D :D

Why do you use as many emotes as my 70 year old father does in every mundane text he sends? Legit asking. I don't know how to respond to 5-10 smiling/laughing faces per text. It's fucking weird.

And how is this thread 39 pages? I said on page 2. Just pay the trainer moneys. Then get the mats. Ezpz. If you want mage as your first class then level it as intended. You shouldn't be complaining about needing to level research anyway. Mages are braindead easy classes with as much depth as Senna's comments. All you do is sit there. In this case, you sit there and complain.

[Obrae]

The selectively classic crowd will just say unless we can provide explicit patch note evidence that mage words should be X rate, that no change should be made because otherwise it would make it easier for mages. And then they'll go show you a forum post from some random dude from sometime in 1999 saying he knows what the drop rate is and it's X low frequency, so that's proof of what the drop rate should be.

Nailed it.
No one knows what drop rate were and are today.
But i can tell you we are freaking elites eq veterans killings efficiently with violence 24/7 on this server.
We are also at least double if not triple the number of people destroying all these monsters than during classic launch.

Now i will not say tht words drop less here since they were not even in the game at lunch. But the drop rate is far far far far lower than it should ever have been once the words were out.

If the staff wanted to help, they would have spoken already. This thread will soon be if not already the most viewed thread since green section opened.

I am pretty sure they can data mine the current drop rate. They will have all the evidence that what mages are ask for is insane. Imagine when many mage gestbto 24+, we are not even there yet. There wont be more of those target to kill, they are already getting destroyed as soons as they spawn.

[Dolalin]

No one knows what drop rate were and are today..

There's very little reason to suppose they ever changed from the rates given on Magelo.

(After GZ increased them, of course)

Don't let me interrupt though.

[Ligma]

Gotta get the glory and prestige of being a server first on an emu of a 20 year old mmo

That's the thing. Most people are giving up the ability to be the first lvl 50 to be the 5th manastone.

[Obrae]

Why do you use as many emotes as my 70 year old father does in every mundane text he sends? Legit asking. I don't know how to respond to 5-10 smiling/laughing faces per text. It's fucking weird.

And how is this thread 39 pages? I said on page 2. Just pay the trainer moneys. Then get the mats. Ezpz. If you want mage as your first class then level it as intended. You shouldn't be complaining about needing to level research anyway. Mages are braindead easy classes with as much depth as Senna's comments. All you do is sit there. In this case, you sit there and complain.

Your knowledge of this issue is grand it would look like.
You think with your blue experience, green dosent work like this.

Also the training part isnt really the problem even tho it caps very low. Materials don’t drop and you need around 12 different item per combine attempt on the last tier (not counting scroll)

10 the previous one, 8 the one before etc.

Good thing most wont stick to mages else all the lower zone would be perma raped by material seeking magicians.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Don't forget the very high Mage population. Not only large overall but also in respect to the population of the class during Classic.

ALL of whom are going to be searching for these research components.

[Obrae]

Don't forget the very high Mage population. Not only large overall but also in respect to the population of the class during Classic.

ALL of whom are going to be searching for these research components.

Good thing according to the various counts post on this page its the least played caster after wizards.

But yeah, its more mages than at launch for sure. Big change for me i usually level a cleric first all the time. Mage looks like a fun class.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

we all know what they can do and its not the gods of EQ far from it. We have all been playing that game for 20 years or close.

Most of you never played the first couple months :) It shows in here.

Yea it's quite funny honestly. Mages are strong generally speaking. But compared to Necros or Chanters?

[bwe]

Yea it's quite funny honestly. Mages are strong generally speaking. But compared to Necros or Chanters?

Someone needs to do Classic(tm) research on charming, charm lasts way too long here

[Kohedron]

Guess half the server is screwed, haha oh well I'm not :)

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Someone needs to do Classic(tm) research on charming, charm lasts way too long here

Yea it seems absurd to me. I thought the lack of +CHA gear compared to Blue would have reduced the reliability of Charm. Doesnt seem to be the case (at least not in any significant way.)

[Valion]

Someone needs to do Classic(tm) research on charming, charm lasts way too long here

Remember all you really need is a theory proposed in one of those old google threads you don't actually need anything concrete like logs files.

[Obrae]

Guess half the server is screwed, haha oh well I'm not :)

Nah mages isnt very high on class distribution.

No class ate that numerous it looks like. Last i checked mage were around 9-10. %

[cd288]

Someone needs to do Classic(tm) research on charming, charm lasts way too long here

Charm lasts too long? Not sure what you mean by too long. Charm doesn't have a set duration.

Every tick, I believe there are three saves you have to make and those are difference between your level and the mob's level, mob's magic resistance, and your charisma. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure those are the three. If you make all those saves, then charm doesn't break. If you miss one, it breaks. It's one of the reasons why charming is so unreliable at lower levels where the level difference between you and the blue con mob you're fighting is much lower.

[Christina.]

lol I wish I had a computer still so I could play this server. I’ve only read a few pages of this thread and find it sooooo funny some people complaining about magicians when they won’t be playing a mage by the end of the timeline lol. Typical new server crap. U aren’t real mages!

[Somekid123]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aa

[WaffleztheAndal]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aa

Aren't you a chill guy and not a toxic douchebag?

[bwe]

Charm lasts too long? Not sure what you mean by too long. Charm doesn't have a set duration.

Every tick, I believe there are three saves you have to make and those are difference between your level and the mob's level, mob's magic resistance, and your charisma. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure those are the three. If you make all those saves, then charm doesn't break. If you miss one, it breaks. It's one of the reasons why charming is so unreliable at lower levels where the level difference between you and the blue con mob you're fighting is much lower.

"lasts too long" == "the odds of charm breaking on a given tick is lower than it seems like it was in classic"

[cd288]

"lasts too long" == "the odds of charm breaking on a given tick is lower than it seems like it was in classic"

It’s not

[cd288]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aa

Aren’t you one of the officers and/or leader of Sanctuary on Green? Your guild actually seemed pretty cool and I was seriously considering joining until I saw you do that. Now it’s a hard pass lol

[AgentEpilot]

Aren’t you one of the officers and/or leader of Sanctuary on Green? Your guild actually seemed pretty cool and I was seriously considering joining until I saw you do that. Now it’s a hard pass lol

I'am sure its totally their loss. Mind as well disband guys.

[Jimjam]

I suggest all the high players /move to teal.

On teal the merchants will be empty (unlike green where everything is full of rusty) so you'll have more chance of merchants being seeded with the research components you need.

[Morratiz]

Sounds like its time for a new char for you guys

[Sillyturtle]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aa

That's a real shame that you think behaviour/comments like this is okay.

I'm grouped with Bohdmall one of your guildies on my 14 Mage. I'd already been looking into joining Sanctuary as it seemed pretty good people.

I now have to reconsider my opinion.

[derpcake2]

Andains brain stopped working due to severely elevated sodium levels.

[Kalanmyr]

Serious question. I'm not complaining. After looking into the mage research it looks like in order to get the lvl 44 mage pet you would have to have the level 39 pet, which requires the lvl 34 pet, which requires the lvl 29 pet etc.... If all of them are research after 20 that means you'd have to make the level 24 pet 9 times, the 29 pet 8 times the 34 pet 7 times etc.... In order to get your pet at every spell level.

Do I have this correct? That is a metric f*** ton of research if so.... Extremely disproportionate if true.

[Obrae]

Serious question. I'm not complaining. After looking into the mage research it looks like in order to get the lvl 44 mage pet you would have to have the level 39 pet, which requires the lvl 34 pet, which requires the lvl 29 pet etc.... If all of them are research after 20 that means you'd have to make the level 24 pet 9 times, the 29 pet 8 times the 34 pet 7 times etc.... In order to get your pet at every spell level.

Do I have this correct? That is a metric f*** ton of research if so.... Extremely disproportionate if true.

exact and possible the pet chain breaks at 34, and 39 may be non available cause no recipe exist for the 39 pets available at 34

[Kalanmyr]

So I've been beaten down before for being anti-classic in favor of "classic+". I understand the objective of green. But what in the hell were the EQ devs thinking when they developed the mage spell path? I guess they were the last class to be developed, they ran out of funding and there was clearly some incompleteness at launch haha. I couldn't explain it any other way...

Glad I have 3 alts already that can overtake my level 18 mage before I'm in too deep lol...

[Bordar]

So I've been beaten down before for being anti-classic in favor of "classic+". I understand the objective of green. But what in the hell were the EQ devs thinking when they developed the mage spell path? I guess they were the last class to be developed, they ran out of funding and there was clearly some incompleteness at launch haha. I couldn't explain it any other way...

Glad I have 3 alts already that can overtake my level 18 mage before I'm in too deep lol...

This might be bearable if the words and components dropped at the rates of other words.

[Obrae]

So I've been beaten down before for being anti-classic in favor of "classic+". I understand the objective of green. But what in the hell were the EQ devs thinking when they developed the mage spell path? I guess they were the last class to be developed, they ran out of funding and there was clearly some incompleteness at launch haha. I couldn't explain it any other way...

Glad I have 3 alts already that can overtake my level 18 mage before I'm in too deep lol...

Verant devs did confirmed the class was unfinished and their research.

[Kalanmyr]

Verant devs did confirmed the class was unfinished and their research.

Really makes me question the need to put an unfinished class into green for the sake of "classic". At the very least I wish there was a comprehensive location on the p1999 site that you could easily digest important class-breaking things like this. If it exists please point me in that direction. Sucks you have to find out about things like this by either being extremely active and in-the-know as a contributor, or you have to wait until you read the forum and see people b***ing.

If you put an unfinished class in the game for sake of "classic", you should put all the bugs and coding errors in too! /s

*sigh* +1 for Classic+

[Ligma]

Every expansion was unfinished. It's part of the timeline

[hillgiantchamp]

I'm pretty upset aswell. I leveled a mage to 40 on beta and had the normal pet's I could obtain from vendors. They should have at least let us know that this was going to be the case on green before so many people rolled mage and waisted their time. There where plenty of forum posts on the topic they could have at least replied to one of them.

[Jimjam]

So I've been beaten down before for being anti-classic in favor of "classic+". I understand the objective of green. But what in the hell were the EQ devs thinking when they developed the mage spell path? I guess they were the last class to be developed, they ran out of funding and there was clearly some incompleteness at launch haha. I couldn't explain it any other way...

Glad I have 3 alts already that can overtake my level 18 mage before I'm in too deep lol...

The 'upgrade the old spell' is cool conceptually, and it wouldn't be so bad if the required components were more easily accessible. At 20ish just make a bunch of 20 pets and bank the scrolls, 24 upgrade those, etc as you go. Spell scrolls being stackable would help to.

At least the farming for rare component is good training for epic later.

[Kalanmyr]

I'm pretty upset aswell. I leveled a mage to 40 on beta and had the normal pet's I could obtain from vendors. They should have at least let us know that this was going to be the case on green before so many people rolled mage and waisted their time. There where plenty of forum posts on the topic they could have at least replied to one of them.

Yeah I agree. I'm not on the forums much, but when I was... most questions were met with radio silence prior to launch. There was a extremely tiny compilation on the wiki for quotes from devs on like 5 launch subjects. Nothing comprehensive like the Blue patch notes. If they wanna go this route that's fine, but communication would have been appreciated.

A week in I feel like I wasted a bunch of time.

The 'upgrade the old spell' is cool conceptually, and it wouldn't be so bad if the required components were more easily accessible. At 20ish just make a bunch of 20 pets and bank the scrolls, 24 upgrade those, etc as you go. Spell scrolls being stackable would help to.

At least the farming for rare component is good training for epic later.

I'm not saying it's not. I'm more worried about what was said earlier that the level 30 something pet spell doesn't even exist and the pet chain breaks at this point until it is patched later.

[deezy]

A week in I feel like I wasted a bunch of time.

lol

[Dolalin]

I'm more worried about what was said earlier that the level 30 something pet spell doesn't even exist and the pet chain breaks at this point until it is patched later.

If the 30 pet research recipe is broken, that's a legit bug you should file a report for.

[Obrae]

If the 30 pet research recipe is broken, that a legit bug you should file a report for.

We dont know yet but 34 and 39 always had just 2 pet to research each.

So if its like it here, 39 pet can never be done

[Obrae]

We dont know yet but 34 and 39 always had just 2 pet to research each.

So if its like it here, 39 pet can never be done

Just to keep this conversation going.

ATM earth pet got his root removed. But they still hit less hard than classic pets.
Another custom change to weaken mages.

Personnaliy id keep root off and prefer higher damge but you know... its a garantee they go for worst of both world.

What is your experience with other pets ? I use only earth myself, confirmed on 24 and 29 pet, no more root.

[Valion]

Well if they have removed castng from them they should be pre-nerf strength because that too is classic.

[Dolalin]

We dont know yet but 34 and 39 always had just 2 pet to research each.

So if its like it here, 39 pet can never be done

Yeah looks like there are gaps.

I got you fam.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3011693#post3011693

[derpcake2]

I like how extensive research was done to prevent mages from getting 24+ pets, and the bugs that relate to that were conveniently ignored.

[PhoenixInvertigo]

I like how extensive research was done to prevent mages from getting 24+ pets, and the bugs that relate to that were conveniently ignored.

[skorge]

I like how extensive research was done to prevent mages from getting 24+ pets, and the bugs that relate to that were conveniently ignored.

Extensive research? Homie found this research within a day after I posted this: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335510

Check out how the forums responded, nobody listened. Baler tried his hardest to derail my thread. You neckbeards were warned, nobody listened. You are also lucky pets can cast spells at all.

You want to play a mage? Deal with how it was in classic. I personally had the time of my life playing mage (1-24) from March - May 99. Grouped the most I've ever grouped, got to meet tons of cool people. Verant wanted to make EQ as much as a grouping experience as possible. That may just be why mages functioned the way they did at launch (aka "broke" to most of you sour patches here).

[zodium]

Extensive research? Homie found this research within a day after I posted this: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335510

Check out how the forums responded, nobody listened. Baler tried his hardest to derail my thread. You neckbeards were warned, nobody listened. You are also lucky pets can cast spells at all.

You want to play a mage? Deal with how it was in classic. I personally had the time of my life playing mage (1-24) from March - May 99. Grouped the most I've ever grouped, got to meet tons of cool people. Verant wanted to make EQ as much as a grouping experience as possible. That may just be why mages functioned the way they did at launch (aka "broke" to most of you sour patches here).

https://i.imgur.com/fggKFVA.gif

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Extensive research? Homie found this research within a day after I posted this: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335510

Check out how the forums responded, nobody listened. Baler tried his hardest to derail my thread. You neckbeards were warned, nobody listened. You are also lucky pets can cast spells at all.

You want to play a mage? Deal with how it was in classic. I personally had the time of my life playing mage (1-24) from March - May 99. Grouped the most I've ever grouped, got to meet tons of cool people. Verant wanted to make EQ as much as a grouping experience as possible. That may just be why mages functioned the way they did at launch (aka "broke" to most of you sour patches here).

Listen, go eat shit Skorge. You're doing this to spite Mage players while feigning some kind of "Classic-purist benevolence."

You've advocated in post after post, lobbying for every Mage NERF, whilst conveniently ignoring every
Classic change that would increase their strength.

In fact lets get you and Dolalin a corner and y'all two can just take turns defecating in each other's mouth!

[saftbudet]

Selectively classic. Thats how P99 rolls. They deliberatly ignore some classic to make game more balanced.

I have no opinion in whether it is good or not. But they do.

[cd288]

Extensive research? Homie found this research within a day after I posted this: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335510

Check out how the forums responded, nobody listened. Baler tried his hardest to derail my thread. You neckbeards were warned, nobody listened. You are also lucky pets can cast spells at all.

You want to play a mage? Deal with how it was in classic. I personally had the time of my life playing mage (1-24) from March - May 99. Grouped the most I've ever grouped, got to meet tons of cool people. Verant wanted to make EQ as much as a grouping experience as possible. That may just be why mages functioned the way they did at launch (aka "broke" to most of you sour patches here).

Nobody listened because it was coming from you

[Obrae]

Extensive research? Homie found this research within a day after I posted this: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335510

Check out how the forums responded, nobody listened. Baler tried his hardest to derail my thread. You neckbeards were warned, nobody listened. You are also lucky pets can cast spells at all.

You want to play a mage? Deal with how it was in classic. I personally had the time of my life playing mage (1-24) from March - May 99. Grouped the most I've ever grouped, got to meet tons of cool people. Verant wanted to make EQ as much as a grouping experience as possible. That may just be why mages functioned the way they did at launch (aka "broke" to most of you sour patches here).

Dude i would much rather have release pet damage than spells. You never played release eq it shows.

[Obrae]

Zodium gif is freaking hilarious btw :)

[Obrae]

Listen, go eat shit Skorge. You're doing this to spite Mage players while feigning some kind of "Classic-purist benevolence."

You've advocated in post after post, lobbying for every Mage NERF, whilst conveniently ignoring every
Classic change that would increase their strength.

In fact lets get you and Dolalin a corner and y'all two can just take turns defecating in each other's mouth!

To the defense of Dolalin i don't think he does in out of spite. He did took time to help us get the chain of pet corrected.

[Ligma]

You losers are still in this bitch screaming 'witch hunt!' LUL

[Valion]

You losers are still in this bitch screaming 'witch hunt!' LUL
All most as sad as people like you still trolling it LOL

[Jimjam]

The thing about 'selectively classic' is you document your case for what you think is classic, and if the dev's approve and can work out how to implement it then that will probably happen.

Selectively classic doesn't mean you get to whine for 44 pages in attempt to create pressure for non classic features.

If you want a say in non-classic tweaks your best bet is to volunteer as a dev instead of player / forum service user.

Otherwise find out the by level hit tables for release pets to get a sense of their dmg, find their average hits to get a sense of their attack and present it neatly in the appropriate forum.

Also stop projecting this insane 'people are trying to nerf mages to their release form to spite me'. All it does is create the impression that your thought processes revolve around boosting your favourite classes and nerfing the ones you don't like. P1999 isn't about fixing classic everquest. It is experimental archeology - practically recreating the past using limited data.

[Gorster]

The thing about 'selectively classic' is you document your case for what you think is classic, and if the dev's approve and can work out how to implement it then that will probably happen.

Selectively classic doesn't mean you get to whine for 44 pages in attempt to create pressure for non classic features.

If you want a say in non-classic tweaks your best bet is to volunteer as a dev instead of player / forum service user.

Otherwise find out the by level hit tables for release pets to get a sense of their dmg, find their average hits to get a sense of their attack and present it neatly in the appropriate forum.

Also stop projecting this insane 'people are trying to nerf mages to their release form to spite me'. All it does is create the impression that your thought processes revolve around boosting your favourite classes and nerfing the ones you don't like. P1999 isn't about fixing classic everquest. It is experimental archeology - practically recreating the past using limited data.

[TheRusty]

It's supply and demand.

You picked mage so you could rocket through the levels by pressing your "cast 01 pause 15 pet attack" macro. You do you, Rocketmage!

But being at the cutting edge of server content, one of the very few at the far end of the leveling curve means that there aren't very many people who are spawning research mats at all - much less the ones you need.

A good deal of those who are doing so, are mages themselves who need the very same mats.

And of course, Everquest being Everquest, failed combines are definitely a thing even at trivial.

But hey. You knew this going in.

[Obrae]

It's supply and demand.

You picked mage so you could rocket through the levels by pressing your "cast 01 pause 15 pet attack" macro. You do you, Rocketmage!

But being at the cutting edge of server content, one of the very few at the far end of the leveling curve means that there aren't very many people who are spawning research mats at all - much less the ones you need.

A good deal of those who are doing so, are mages themselves who need the very same mats.

And of course, Everquest being Everquest, failed combines are definitely a thing even at trivial.

But hey. You knew this going in.

Ah the jealousy, mage have never been the gods of classes and they wont be the one getting 50 the fastest nor in bigger numbers, not sure why the hate around here.

[WaffleztheAndal]

It's supply and demand.

You picked mage so you could rocket through the levels by pressing your "cast 01 pause 15 pet attack" macro. You do you, Rocketmage!

But being at the cutting edge of server content, one of the very few at the far end of the leveling curve means that there aren't very many people who are spawning research mats at all - much less the ones you need.

A good deal of those who are doing so, are mages themselves who need the very same mats.

And of course, Everquest being Everquest, failed combines are definitely a thing even at trivial.

But hey. You knew this going in.

I don't understand the mage hate either. They are far from the strongest class even in vanilla.

[Obrae]

You know people who started as gnome melee seems to be surpised that the earlier levels were full of mages, nercos and enchnaters...

It must be because all people play mages ! and necros!

Ogre warriors didn't go bitch around that everyone was a shaman :)

[NeilYo]

i love how you complain about research when the actual problem is that its currently impossible to research any pet past 34

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Ah the jealousy, mage have never been the gods of classes and they wont be the one getting 50 the fastest nor in bigger numbers, not sure why the hate around here.

Yea what a joke. That guy's probably playing a Chanter or Necro and calling Mages overwpowered LOL

[Thievery]

I skimmed this thread, but lets put this into some perspective for the mages.

At 34 your nuke does the same damage as a wizard's for 15 more mana cost. And at worst you still have a level 20 pet.

/thread

[keithjinternet]

Listen, go eat shit Skorge. You're doing this to spite Mage players while feigning some kind of "Classic-purist benevolence."

You've advocated in post after post, lobbying for every Mage NERF, whilst conveniently ignoring every
Classic change that would increase their strength.

In fact lets get you and Dolalin a corner and y'all two can just take turns defecating in each other's mouth!

What did they nerf that should have been in for launch of green as it relates to mages?

[Baler]

Yeah dang those mages who can chain summon pets with cheap reagents bought from a vendor. Enabling them to kill high end content with no risk in classic.

[Bazia]

at first i kinda had beef with mages because they were so specifically abused on blue classic, but at this point cmon at least unbreak their research

[TheRusty]

Ah the jealousy, mage have never been the gods of classes and they wont be the one getting 50 the fastest nor in bigger numbers, not sure why the hate around here.

You picked mage so you could get a head start. Same as people who rolled up druids and necros on day one. It's been 20 years man, we know how this game works. And nobody hates you for this. Do your thing, hell, I rolled an enchanter, who am I to judge on someone for wanting an easy time as a naked caster? :p

The problem comes up where after taking this head start, you run into an issue where you have a gear dependecy to progress. You need a spell. That spell requires research components - but because there are so few people at the level range to generate those components, and the competition is so high, you have to either tediously grind those components up somehow, or pay someone who has.

And you don't like this. It slows your roll. You knew what you were getting into - it's literally on the server's name - but just the same, you're mad. and you want it rectified. You want a special exception made, just for you, to make a piece of requirement easily accessible off a merchant. To make your roll easier.

And people are laughing at you and mocking you for this demand. Deservedly so. Imagine warriors demanding that crafted armor be put on a merchant or something. That's what you're asking.

if I can suck up that Clarity is months away from my grasp, you can accept that you might have to pay a dude who found your component.

[Skosh]

Here's the point though. As referenced back a few pages, when Magicians first discovered that their research skill was broken involving level 24+ pets (and by broken, I mean, you couldn't even craft pets with the proper materials), Verant responded within 24 hours by doing two things.

1) Research was patched and repaired to work as intended.
2) At most spell levels, 2 pets were added at each tier from vendors, and in the cases where this wasn't the route they chose, 1 pet was added instead.

This isn't a matter of it being an intended fix triggered by a point in time. It was an issue of something being broken for a class and the matter was hotfixed as a result after a review. For anyone actually playing back in 1999-2000, you will recall that Bards had their songs broken more often than not after EVERY freakin' update. Bards had a hard time. And when Verant realized that something was broken with them from player input, a fix went in within a day.

This isn't speculation, and it isn't an emotional appeal. It's the absolute facts of the matter, and it's facts that this server staff has chosen to ignore. I'm just honestly curious why they've chosen to bury their heads in the sand over this and hope it will go away.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

You picked mage so you could get a head start. Same as people who rolled up druids and necros on day one. It's been 20 years man, we know how this game works. And nobody hates you for this. Do your thing, hell, I rolled an enchanter, who am I to judge on someone for wanting an easy time as a naked caster? :p

The problem comes up where after taking this head start, you run into an issue where you have a gear dependecy to progress. You need a spell. That spell requires research components - but because there are so few people at the level range to generate those components, and the competition is so high, you have to either tediously grind those components up somehow, or pay someone who has.

And you don't like this. It slows your roll. You knew what you were getting into - it's literally on the server's name - but just the same, you're mad. and you want it rectified. You want a special exception made, just for you, to make a piece of requirement easily accessible off a merchant. To make your roll easier.

And people are laughing at you and mocking you for this demand. Deservedly so. Imagine warriors demanding that crafted armor be put on a merchant or something. That's what you're asking.

if I can suck up that Clarity is months away from my grasp, you can accept that you might have to pay a dude who found your component.

Such immense hyperbole here in your comparison of vendor-bought Mage pets to vendor-bought Crafted Armor. Cmon bro!

And Enchanters not having Clarity isn't NEARLY as debilitating as Mages not having ANY pets. Indeed I say this only proves my point further. Enchanters even WITHOUT CLARITY are still probably the most powerful Class in Classic-era.

That really says something doesn't it?

[Ligma]

It says we're here to play an unfinished, unbalanced game. If you're playing p99, that's what you signed up for.

[TheRusty]

Such immense hyperbole here in your comparison of vendor-bought Mage pets to vendor-bought Crafted Armor. Cmon bro!

And Enchanters not having Clarity isn't NEARLY as debilitating as Mages not having ANY pets. Indeed I say this only proves my point further. Enchanters even WITHOUT CLARITY are still probably the most powerful Class in Classic-era.

That really says something doesn't it?

No.

You want a piece of equipment that you will either have to farm yourself or pay someone else to farm.

You don't like that, so you want it put on a merchant. RIGHT NOW. Instead of, like, a few patches from now.

You're demanding a special exception to the server ruleset because you don't want to spend time or money getting a piece of gear.

That's fucking stupid.

It's not like the spell isn't in game due to botched code. it's there. you're just too lazy and entitled to go about getting it.

[Sillyturtle]

Level 29 research materials are not dropping. Nobody has found any. Please fix.

[Ligma]

Not true

[Obrae]

You picked mage so you could get a head start. Same as people who rolled up druids and necros on day one. It's been 20 years man, we know how this game works. And nobody hates you for this. Do your thing, hell, I rolled an enchanter, who am I to judge on someone for wanting an easy time as a naked caster? :p

The problem comes up where after taking this head start, you run into an issue where you have a gear dependecy to progress. You need a spell. That spell requires research components - but because there are so few people at the level range to generate those components, and the competition is so high, you have to either tediously grind those components up somehow, or pay someone who has.

And you don't like this. It slows your roll. You knew what you were getting into - it's literally on the server's name - but just the same, you're mad. and you want it rectified. You want a special exception made, just for you, to make a piece of requirement easily accessible off a merchant. To make your roll easier.

And people are laughing at you and mocking you for this demand. Deservedly so. Imagine warriors demanding that crafted armor be put on a merchant or something. That's what you're asking.

if I can suck up that Clarity is months away from my grasp, you can accept that you might have to pay a dude who found your component.

Nah you do not understand magician research. Like many who give their opinion here, its getting fixed for a reason. Also Materials ? other class cant really comprehend, i get only a share of other class materials, i give them for free, to some of you commenting here btw. I charge 0 i just dump all materials on other class everytime i see them in need. And even doing that i end up destroying your materials because they drop so damn often.

On the other side, my materials, i get them all, by default in group, people are real nice they let me get my mats. And i barely manage to get a combine or 2 per 5 level.

Now dont forget all our pets are combine only, all pets always need the previous pets. It works, id be lying if i said i dont have my pets. I have 1 per tier up to now, 34, unless i am very lucky will have to wait but i will most likely get the chance of trying the combine once before 39.

But its not like this for all mages. And right now we hope that its possible to make a 39 pets, it may not be. (2 recipe for 34 and 2 for 39 but different pet line) so like said before, since we need the previous tier pet scroll for the new combine it may be that 39+ pets cant be made.

We will know soon enough.

And no i didnt pick mage for a jump start, i picked mage cause thats what i was leveling on blue when green happened. I couldnt care less when i hit 50, i only group and play for fun.

[Obrae]

No.

You want a piece of equipment that you will either have to farm yourself or pay someone else to farm.

You don't like that, so you want it put on a merchant. RIGHT NOW. Instead of, like, a few patches from now.

You're demanding a special exception to the server ruleset because you don't want to spend time or money getting a piece of gear.

That's fucking stupid.

It's not like the spell isn't in game due to botched code. it's there. you're just too lazy and entitled to go about getting it.

Rusty, when people got to that content level soon after launch, developpers fixed it right away and admitted it was a mistake on their part cause magician had not been adressed at launch. Its just that here with 20 years old veteran of EQ we got faster to the content. The fix was to put pets on merchanst so the materials drop rate never got adjusted to magician needed to research all pets. This is the broken version we are playing now. Not classic, just a mechanic mistake enforced on mages.

[Obrae]

Level 29 research materials are not dropping. Nobody has found any. Please fix.

They drop right now ive seen Coercion drop on tsu shamans in lguk and tentacle terrors in unrest basement if that helps you.

[derpcake2]

That's fucking stupid.

You don't understand that the component drop tables haven't been adjusted for the fact that spells have to be researched I guess.

Several pets can't even be made because the recipes aren't in (unless hotfixed).

This situation is the result of one-sided input, people with a strong desire to enforce classic nerfs and broken code, while disregarding everything else.

[branamil]

Imagine getting really upset emotionally in real life cause your elf can't digitally summon a best friend out of the ground

[skorge]

Rusty, when people got to that content level soon after launch, developpers fixed it right away

Wrong. So you think it took people 70+ days to get to level 24 in 1999? Oh come on, drop it man. I reached 24 on my mage within 45-50 days and I was in college back then. Our highest mage on the server was a lot higher level than me.

and admitted it was a mistake on their part cause magician had not been adressed at launch.

Find proof where Verant admits having pets research only was a mistake. The only thing broke during this era was research itself. Not mage, but research. They added the pet vendor as a quality of life adjustment, not because it was broke. I mean can't you only find 1 pet there per level? If it was truly broke wouldn't all pets be available for purchase?

Brad himself stated the above change was an "enhancement" to the class, not that it was a broke class.

Again, research itself was half broken during this era. On P99 research fully works.

[Jimjam]

Such immense hyperbole here in your comparison of vendor-bought Mage pets to vendor-bought Crafted Armor. Cmon bro!

And Enchanters not having Clarity isn't NEARLY as debilitating as Mages not having ANY pets. Indeed I say this only proves my point further. Enchanters even WITHOUT CLARITY are still probably the most powerful Class in Classic-era.

That really says something doesn't it?

Imagine acusing someone of hyperbole then immediately claiming mages don't have 'any' pets.


Oh, and to be balanced, to the person that said mage nukes almost match wizards for only a bit more mana, I just want to point out wizards also get roots very early in addition to a ds, a variety of stun spells and snare. Mages get decent nukes, one if the best ds in the game, and from 24 onwards they seem to be a spell circle or two behind on their pet.

[Hagglebaron]

lol so here’s my latest update on the subject. I’ve gotten a drop or two of pet words in groups, and the groups have been cool about mages need before greeding them. Many nights I’ve gone entire sessions without seeing a word drop though.

Alright so just play the game I figure, others are doing the same and you can trade/buy the words. LOL well that’s been interesting. Players are learning they have mages by the balls with how things are currently and robbing people blind on prices for pet words. They know we literally cannot get our new pets, any of them, without these words, and man are they jacking up prices.

To any mages not yet in the post 20 situation, here is what you can generally expect. Any research words you come across will be consumed by you, as you need to make every pet again as part of the next pet. You will never have enough just from your own adventuring unless you get extremely lucky on drops and don’t fail combines. I recommend being in a good guild and networking/making friends to help alleviate this if it’s not something you do naturally anyways. Expect to be robbed blind when you attempt to purchase these words from other players.

Good luck.

[Frug]

lol so here’s my latest update on the subject. I’ve gotten a drop or two of pet words in groups, and the groups have been cool about mages need before greeding them. Many nights I’ve gone entire sessions without seeing a word drop though.

The auctions on them (at least in EC) have been... sparse.

https://unixgeek.com/last-week-P1999Green.html

[Hagglebaron]

The auctions on them (at least in EC) have been... sparse.

https://unixgeek.com/last-week-P1999Green.html

Yea I’ve had better luck asking directly in levelling zones.

[Tecmos Deception]

lol so here’s my latest update on the subject. I’ve gotten a drop or two of pet words in groups, and the groups have been cool about mages need before greeding them. Many nights I’ve gone entire sessions without seeing a word drop though.

Alright so just play the game I figure, others are doing the same and you can trade/buy the words. LOL well that’s been interesting. Players are learning they have mages by the balls with how things are currently and robbing people blind on prices for pet words. They know we literally cannot get our new pets, any of them, without these words, and man are they jacking up prices.

To any mages not yet in the post 20 situation, here is what you can generally expect. Any research words you come across will be consumed by you, as you need to make every pet again as part of the next pet. You will never have enough just from your own adventuring unless you get extremely lucky on drops and don’t fail combines. I recommend being in a good guild and networking/making friends to help alleviate this if it’s not something you do naturally anyways. Expect to be robbed blind when you attempt to purchase these words from other players.

Good luck.

This is a fantastic post.

Joining a guild and having friends is recommended in order to achieve in an MMO?

A dude named "Hagglebaron" who was an EC tunnel trader on blue blaming other people for robbery because supply&demand aren't on his side?

Green server isn't a faceroll for a fresh character like 10-year-old blue is?


I am experiencing significant amounts of Schadenfreude and general amusement.


edit - I get that the mage research situation is bad atm (I've seen probably 30-40 research item drops from a variety of different mob types in a variety of different zones and not one of them was a magician component), but good lord, buck up about it. I clearly remember going without what I would now call essential spells on blue, let alone on live, no matter what the class was. A mage with a 2-tier-ago pet still has more sustained damage in groups than a wizard or many/most melee do. Mages are MOSTLY about their pets but they still have malo, nukes, damage shields, some occasionally-useful summons. Etc.

[Aaramis]

Sounds about right. Mages past 20 unplayable. That was your goal, right, Skorge?

GG.

[Baler]

group, pretend to be a wizard.

[Obrae]

Imagine acusing someone of hyperbole then immediately claiming mages don't have 'any' pets.


Oh, and to be balanced, to the person that said mage nukes almost match wizards for only a bit more mana, I just want to point out wizards also get roots very early in addition to a ds, a variety of stun spells and snare. Mages get decent nukes, one if the best ds in the game, and from 24 onwards they seem to be a spell circle or two behind on their pet.

Mage never gets root or any cc. Only pets

[Obrae]

Aye as long as we group we are still at least a wizard and monks get to loot with our bags.

While we wait for a fix, just group as much as possible. Soloing if you are lucky with pet tiers. It should bot stop us to get to 50.

[Baler]

While we wait for a fix

What exactly needs to "fixed"?
Shit's Classic

[yraapt]

What exactly needs to "fixed"?
Shit's Classic

well verant 'fixed' it about 2 months in when they found the issue. Of course as Skorge pointed out, companies often use words like 'enhance' instead of 'fix' as it is unwise to admit your product was broken.

[yraapt]

Probably better to say 'broken is classic', which I'm good with. But yeah it was broken and they fixed it...

[Baler]

https://i.imgur.com/qpzjre1.gif
gif by Manticmuse

[Jimjam]

Mage never gets root or any cc. Only pets

Thanks for reiterating my post. Also it's not 'only' nukes and pets, you missed out their amazing and much better than wizard damage shield.

Edit: wait you also pretended mages don't get nukes.

[Palemoon]

Mage never gets root or any cc. Only pets

Throw a garbage pet on one of the mobs: there you just "rooted" and "CCed" that mob until it wears off (pet dies). Nuke like a wiz with your bolt spells in the mean time on other mobs.

classic

[Waedawen]

is this guy for real? lmao

[Baler]

November 04, 2019 - 10:20:32 AM Level Maxximuss, of <Venerate>, was the first Level 40 Magician

[Jimjam]

Literally unplayable.

[Hagglebaron]

This is a fantastic post.

Joining a guild and having friends is recommended in order to achieve in an MMO?

A dude named "Hagglebaron" who was an EC tunnel trader on blue blaming other people for robbery because supply&demand aren't on his side?

Green server isn't a faceroll for a fresh character like 10-year-old blue is?


I am experiencing significant amounts of Schadenfreude and general amusement.


edit - I get that the mage research situation is bad atm (I've seen probably 30-40 research item drops from a variety of different mob types in a variety of different zones and not one of them was a magician component), but good lord, buck up about it. I clearly remember going without what I would now call essential spells on blue, let alone on live, no matter what the class was. A mage with a 2-tier-ago pet still has more sustained damage in groups than a wizard or many/most melee do. Mages are MOSTLY about their pets but they still have malo, nukes, damage shields, some occasionally-useful summons. Etc.

Well said. If you’re going to take the stance that mages are alright given the circumstances, this is the way to do it. I appreciate replies like yours.

Maybe we are making a mountain of something that isn’t necessarily all that debilitating, but man this community has some jerks lol.

As for my time spent in the tunnel, I actually didn’t do a whole lot of trading. Most of my time was spent running the casino, doing giveaways, newbie trivia for plat, contests etc. You can check my threads for a history of some of it.

[Waedawen]

Well said. If you’re going to take the stance that mages are alright given the circumstances, this is the way to do it. I appreciate replies like yours.

Bro if you STILL don't understand why people are just taking the piss out of you, after 47 pages, and then walking away without explaining themselves I just don't know what to tell you.

[derpcake2]

The coolest thing about this discussion is that all the shitty players that are happy over the misery of others because they always get the shortest end of the stick, are just going to get the short end of the stick again.

Broken classes get patched, shitty players don't.

[turbosilk]

Finally word drops have meaning.

[Hagglebaron]

The coolest thing about this discussion is that all the shitty players that are happy over the misery of others because they always get the shortest end of the stick, are just going to get the short end of the stick again.

Broken classes get patched, shitty players don't.

I was particularly surprised by Andain’s comment. I remember him being a really cool dude back in the day.

[derpcake2]

I was particularly surprised by Andain’s comment. I remember him being a really cool dude back in the day.

I spoke to him 3-4 years ago on red, then 1 year ago I did so again.

He lost it. Used to be a nice guy, now he's just straight up antisocial.

Good example of why too much EQ is bad.

[Boyblunder]

Irony- a guy complaining about questing playing a game called everquest.

[Hagglebaron]

Irony- a guy complaining about questing playing a game called everquest.

Add this guy to the list lol.

[Wwen42]

The coolest thing about this discussion is that all the shitty players that are happy over the misery of others because they always get the shortest end of the stick, are just going to get the short end of the stick again.

Broken classes get patched, shitty players don't.

Just got patched. Am now a Chad.

[Palemoon]

why people are just taking the piss out of you

Please speak American, thanks.

[Erati]

WTB Gloves of Rallos Zek

[TheRusty]

Rusty, when people got to that content level soon after launch, developpers fixed it right away and admitted it was a mistake on their part cause magician had not been adressed at launch. Its just that here with 20 years old veteran of EQ we got faster to the content. The fix was to put pets on merchanst so the materials drop rate never got adjusted to magician needed to research all pets. This is the broken version we are playing now. Not classic, just a mechanic mistake enforced on mages.

But... it's not broken. That's the part you can't wrap your head around.

In the live version, the code itself was busted. You could combine all day long every day and it would just eat your materials, because there was no flag saying "this combine makes this item."

That's not the case on P99, unless you want to claim that the admin here specifically went in to un-tag all these combines. Considering all the numerous Titanium-era artifacts we still have in "classic" because removing the code is too much work, I'm going to go on a limb and suggest that this is very unlikely.

The combines work. because our base client is one where the bug had been fixed for five years.

Your problem is that the drops are not very common, and the competition for those drops is very high, and combine success rate is spotty, because lol tradeskills.

The pets WILL be put on vendors eventually, since that's patch progression. In the meantime, you get to farm mats and do combines.

Just like everyone else who wants a piece of equipment has to do.


And no i didnt pick mage for a jump start, i picked mage cause thats what i was leveling on blue when green happened. I couldnt care less when i hit 50, i only group and play for fun.

Yeah bruh, I only read playboy for the articles too.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Wrong. So you think it took people 70+ days to get to level 24 in 1999? Oh come on, drop it man. I reached 24 on my mage within 45-50 days and I was in college back then. Our highest mage on the server was a lot higher level than me.



Find proof where Verant admits having pets research only was a mistake. The only thing broke during this era was research itself. Not mage, but research. They added the pet vendor as a quality of life adjustment, not because it was broke. I mean can't you only find 1 pet there per level? If it was truly broke wouldn't all pets be available for purchase?

Brad himself stated the above change was an "enhancement" to the class, not that it was a broke class.

Again, research itself was half broken during this era. On P99 research fully works.

WOW! What a sad fucking display you are. Look at you twisting your words to fit your specific narrative. Example:

Brad himself stated the above change was an "enhancement" to the class, not that it was a broke class.

"Find proof where Verant admits having pets research only was a mistake." The proof IS the fact that they added pets to vendors. Actions speak louder than words. This is obvious and you know it.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

lol so here’s my latest update on the subject. I’ve gotten a drop or two of pet words in groups, and the groups have been cool about mages need before greeding them. Many nights I’ve gone entire sessions without seeing a word drop though.

Alright so just play the game I figure, others are doing the same and you can trade/buy the words. LOL well that’s been interesting. Players are learning they have mages by the balls with how things are currently and robbing people blind on prices for pet words. They know we literally cannot get our new pets, any of them, without these words, and man are they jacking up prices.

To any mages not yet in the post 20 situation, here is what you can generally expect. Any research words you come across will be consumed by you, as you need to make every pet again as part of the next pet. You will never have enough just from your own adventuring unless you get extremely lucky on drops and don’t fail combines. I recommend being in a good guild and networking/making friends to help alleviate this if it’s not something you do naturally anyways. Expect to be robbed blind when you attempt to purchase these words from other players.

Good luck.

LMAO! Seriously man? One of the longest-running EC Fatcats on Blue is fucking complaining that he has to buy Mage Pet research components on a brand new server? REALLY bro?

Couple months from now you're gonna be in EC buying/selling everything you can and jacking up the prices on EVERYTHING. Get over it man.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Throw a garbage pet on one of the mobs: there you just "rooted" and "CCed" that mob until it wears off (pet dies). Nuke like a wiz with your bolt spells in the mean time on other mobs.

classic

What? An earth pet 7 levels lower than the mob it's fighting isnt going to be landing any root spells and it's going to die in just a handful of attack rounds. At a cost of hundreds of mana.

That would be a completely moronic way to play a Mage.

[Erati]

when do all the pets get placed on vendors again, what was the patch note?

[Jimjam]

when do all the pets get placed on vendors again, what was the patch note?

They don't ever get all put on vendors. Only a couple per spell circle become vendorable.

I remember having to research pets on blue for my own magician.

Iirc the patchnotes that introduced high level vendor pets also trebbled drop rates for mage research.

[Dolalin]

when do all the pets get placed on vendors again, what was the patch note?

May 24, 1999.

"New Magician spells on vendors and some Magician spells have moved to different vendors"

https://wiki.project1999.com/Patch_Notes#May_24.2C_1999

Verant as usual wasn't too descriptive of what they did, but the newsgroup threads told the tale. See the bug thread I authored for evidence.

Most of these early patch notes were lost to the sands of time until about a month or two ago when I started digging them up, so that's why this stuff is coming as a surprise to a lot of people.

[Hagglebaron]

LMAO! Seriously man? One of the longest-running EC Fatcats on Blue is fucking complaining that he has to buy Mage Pet research components on a brand new server? REALLY bro?

Couple months from now you're gonna be in EC buying/selling everything you can and jacking up the prices on EVERYTHING. Get over it man.

As I said earlier, most of my time in the tunnel was spent running a casino, and the trading I did do wasn’t rampant price gouging.

What I did do was give away over one hundred thousand plat throughout various forum story contests, newbie trivia’s, hand outs and other events. I did countless free trustworthy transfers for people and almost never had a negative interaction with anyone. If you go through my contests, giveaways and business threads in my thread history you will see literally nothing but me helping people and/or providing people good service through their reviews.

You might want do a little research (get it?) before speaking on a subject in the future.

[derpcake2]

But... it's not broken. That's the part you can't wrap your head around.

In the live version, the code itself was busted. You could combine all day long every day and it would just eat your materials, because there was no flag saying "this combine makes this item."

That's not the case on P99, unless you want to claim that the admin here specifically went in to un-tag all these combines. Considering all the numerous Titanium-era artifacts we still have in "classic" because removing the code is too much work, I'm going to go on a limb and suggest that this is very unlikely.

The combines work. because our base client is one where the bug had been fixed for five years.

Your problem is that the drops are not very common, and the competition for those drops is very high, and combine success rate is spotty, because lol tradeskills.

The pets WILL be put on vendors eventually, since that's patch progression. In the meantime, you get to farm mats and do combines.

Just like everyone else who wants a piece of equipment has to do.



Yeah bruh, I only read playboy for the articles too.

Long post from someone that doesn't understand it didn't work in classic and 29+ doesn't work on green.

Disregarding that p1999 drop tables weren't adjusted, because it was broken in original and reviewing drop tables takes a lot of time / info that isn't available.

[Glasken]

This thread makes me so happy. 50 pages of whining about research.

I'm playing a necro in a group with two mages. We are carrying them because we know they will get their pet spells as we churn content. Make friends, group. Profit.

Research is a seriously classic experience, embrace it.


Some ways to level research:
Train it.

Thats it. Your research spells become trivial about 2 character levels above the spell level itself. So character level 26 to trivial train research to trivial for level 24 spells. Rough estimate.

How can mages be effective with a pet 10 levels lower than themselves? Fire pet with damage shield. Nukes. Summoning sword of runes for pets that will currently proc on everything.

While mages are busy crying about their pets, shed a tear for the ungeared warriors, the unwanted wizards, or the necromancers who seem to be both undesired in groups AND have to research their pet spells.

And while you are crying those tears of self pity, fill your mind with thoughts of the true gods of classic: the enchanters, who have most of their toolkit without research, and who get pet spells from a vendor from lvl 1-50 whose only drawback is a lack of commands. Think of the enchanter, and you will finally have something to cry about.

Now go outside.

[derpcake2]

This thread makes me so happy. 50 pages of whining about research.

I'm playing a necro in a group with two mages. We are carrying them because we know they will get their pet spells as we churn content. Make friends, group. Profit.

Research is a seriously classic experience, embrace it.


Some ways to level research:
Train it.

Thats it. Your research spells become trivial about 2 level above the spell level itself. So 26 to trivial train 24 spells. Rough estimate.

How can mages be effective with a pet 10 levels lower than themselves? Fire pet with damage shield. Nukes. Summoning sword of runes for pets that will currently proc on everything.

While mages are busy crying about their pets, shed a tear for the ungeared warriors. The unwanted wizards, or the necromancers who seem to be both undesired in groups AND have to research their spells.

And while you are crying those tears of self pity, fill your mind with thoughts of the true gods of classic: the enchanters, who have most of their toolkit without research, and who get pet spells from a vendor from lvl 1-50 whose only drawback is a lack of commands. Think of the enchanter, and you will finally have something to cry about.

Now go outside.

So necros are undesired in groups, yet you are always in a group, and mages should learn to group?

Because necros have to research important spells?

Going to report your post, I don't think you've played Everquest, ever.

[Glasken]

So necros are undesired in groups, yet you are always in a group, and mages should learn to group?

Because necros have to research important spells?

Going to report your post, I don't think you've played Everquest, ever.

Always in a group, because we have pre-made groups. Or guilds. Or, you know, friends :rolleyes:

Maybe I havn't played EQ before. Maybe I have.

Fight me.

:D