Mages are up shit’s creek I guess

[Hagglebaron]

Looks like all mage pets past 20 are research only, and this lasts months. The whole point of a mage is the pet, why make their entire point of existence so incredibly tedious and unreliable to acquire? What’s a mage supposed to do if they can’t acquire a research pet, keep using a level 20 pet at level 30 and beyond? Or just not play the class until months down the road when mages become ungimped?

[Widan]

Here's a thought: try using the research skill to make your own spells.

[Natewest1987]

Is this true? If so I love it.

[Hagglebaron]

So mages are supposed to level up an entire trade skill, scour the world for materials, many of them completely random drops and rare, just to use their pets.

Verant changed this for a reason, but hey if shits classic shits classic I guess...

[Danger]

Do what necros have to so then I guess or be a man and roll a paladin or something.

Shits classic.

[Danger]

Do what necros have to do then I guess or be a man and roll a paladin or something.

Shits classic.

[Hagglebaron]

Do what necros have to so then I guess or be a man and roll a paladin or something.

Shits classic.

Necros have far more going for them than mages though, a mage without a pet is just a shitty wizard that can’t port lol.

[Yoink1986]

Just play your class.

[galach]

Research pages I believe are linked to different zones. You might want to start asking around and working on getting these spells. It sucks if you are in that top percentile because you will need to get the research materials yourself, but that's part of the deal when you choose a research based class.

[Zeboim]

As if Mages aren't wildly powerful enough as is.

[Danger]

It sucks if you are in that top percentile because you will need to get the research materials yourself, but that's part of the deal when you choose a research based class.

Rofl

[FungusTrooper]

Research pages I believe are linked to different zones. You might want to start asking around and working on getting these spells. It sucks if you are in that top percentile because you will need to get the research materials yourself, but that's part of the deal when you choose a research based class.

Yeah, I definitely seem to get words from specific camps, runes from specific mobs, etc, on blu. I don't think it's entirely 100% random.

Good luck finding a sample size that big tho!

[Hagglebaron]

Research pages I believe are linked to different zones. You might want to start asking around and working on getting these spells. It sucks if you are in that top percentile because you will need to get the research materials yourself, but that's part of the deal when you choose a research based class.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the other research classes can carry on reasonably well without their research spells, no? A mage without a pet is just pointless.

[Widan]

So mages are supposed to level up an entire trade skill, scour the world for materials, many of them completely random drops and rare, just to use their pets.

Verant changed this for a reason, but hey if shits classic shits classic I guess...

Do you have any idea how many pages and words etc are dropping with the amount of people on this server? I'm level 12 and I already have the mats for 3 level 16 research spells just from checking vendors.

[Baa]

I used to always be auctioning for materials for upcoming spells and checking vendors around and near the zones I was leveling up in, aside from some outliers I do not believe it took me too long to hunt them down.

[Hagglebaron]

Do you have any idea how many pages and words etc are dropping with the amount of people on this server? I'm level 12 and I already have the mats for 3 level 16 research spells just from checking vendors.

The skill needs to be trained up, which is a Herculean task, and the combines can easily fail. The higher the words the harder they are to get as well. I mean if this was for an extra element or tool of the class like damage shields or something, I’d understand, but for their pets?

[Jibartik]

Sounds like quite a quest! :o

Edit: wait shouldn't you be working out a system to turn a profit out of this??

[Cacos]

That’s perfect, I won’t be level 20 for at least 6 months lol

[Hagglebaron]

Sounds like quite a quest! :o

Edit: wait shouldn't you be working out a system to turn a profit out of this??

Damn you’re right lmao

[Keza]

All pets are researched? I thought there was at least one per tier you could buy. Necros have to research some of their lich/pet buff spells too which are slightly important. I know ench/wiz have researched stuff but enchanters are so OP anyway and no one cares about wizards.

Only priests/monks get the full easy-mode.

*Oh yeah.. not sure if this is different since I did it in 2010 on blue but I remember training my research up quite a bit through the guildmaster. I spent over 1k on it but it was worth the hassle. Classic changes might have changed that since then for all I know.

[solleks]

u leveled up too fast silly

[Natewest1987]

Research pages I believe are linked to different zones. You might want to start asking around and working on getting these spells. It sucks if you are in that top percentile because you will need to get the research materials yourself, but that's part of the deal when you choose a research based class.

After seeing so many mage / necro only groups this weekend... This news is Oh sooo delightful

[Kanuvan]

i mean god forbid a mmo actually tries to balance a overpowered class like mage with a unique challenge, id rather they just nerfed mages/necros down to the level of every other class then let them have their pets, but i really dont have any sympathy for the gods of norrath soloing and grouping untill raiding tbh

[Hagglebaron]

i mean god forbid a mmo actually tries to balance a overpowered class like mage with a unique challenge, id rather they just nerfed mages/necros down to the level of every other class then let them have their pets, but i really dont have any sympathy for the gods of norrath soloing and grouping untill raiding tbh

I’d have preferred that too, makes sense to me.

[NegaStoat]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the other research classes can carry on reasonably well without their research spells, no? A mage without a pet is just pointless.

On Blue when I first joined the server I rolled a druid and took it to 19 for self ports to get a feel for the game again (it had been a decade since I had last played) and knew that I would need it as a utility slave for the main character I wanted to try. I settled on a Necromancer and forced myself to research all of the spells that I wanted that merchants didn't offer. The druid could easily visit cities that were close to key zones for word drops and purchase them doing casual checks for shopping. I then had the Necromancer sacrifice cash to raise research skill and simply attempted combines when I was 2 levels over the needed level to cast the spell.

In the case of a necromancer, the class is so powerful that waiting an extra 2 levels wasn't a horrible fate for key spells like pets, and I was constantly selling spells in EC to recover cash I had spent. The level 24 necro pet and intensify death + harmshield & hungry earth sold like candy even at a stiff markup. You have numerous extra character slots and unlimited account creation, so I'd make level 1 alts in towns and do periodic checks. The downside would be getting your character with the money over to make the buy - that's where the druid slave came in handy.

Edit - the cost of finally capping research at level 50 was close to 1.4k pp. So if you go this route and pay for all of your research skill increases, do NOT sell your spells in the market cheap.

[kaluppo]

Reading this thread makes me glad I am playing a Druid and Cleric on Green. All I have to do is visit vendors or EC tunnel to get my spells :D

[Ligma]

Yet there's already a 30 mage making due

[Lordess]

Mages get at least 1 of their pets every spell level. The other 2-3 are researched at each spell level. Mages were historically one of the classes that were the most reliant on research, it was kind of their flavor that set them apart from other classes. With great power came a great hurdle to overcome to claim that power. The upside is that research only spells sell for quite a bit and it’s a worthwhile trade skill. You can skill up on researching other classes spells too and make your money back and even turn a profit. Welcome to classic, nothing comes easy, not even spells.

[Trollhide]

I'm sorry you've run into a hiccup in your quest to race to 50 and farmlord by pushing literally 2 buttons.

There truly is no justice in this world.

[Hagglebaron]

I'm sorry you've run into a hiccup in your quest to race to 50 and farmlord by pushing literally 2 buttons.

There truly is no justice in this world.

If you have actual counters to any points I’ve made, I really would like to hear them. Maybe I’m looking at this wrong, but my points seem valid. If you’re just here to troll (see what I did there), thanks for stopping in I guess.

[Nirgon]

love this thread

[Ligma]

If you have actual counters to any points I’ve made

Here's every point ever:

Why *insert salt*

Shits classic

But *thing that was abused relentlessly and changed isn't classic*

Repeat to infinity

[Trollhide]

If you have actual counters to any points I’ve made, I really would like to hear them. Maybe I’m looking at this wrong, but my points seem valid. If you’re just here to troll (see what I did there), thanks for stopping in I guess.
Here's a counter: shit's classic.

[Hagglebaron]

Here's every point ever:

Why *insert salt*

Shits classic

But *thing that was abused relentlessly and changed isn't classic*

Repeat to infinity

I feel like this is the ultimate answer/truth lol, we can consider this thread a wrap.

[branamil]

P99 is selectively classic. Like all the xp quests being nerfed isn't classic

[NegaStoat]

P99 is selectively classic. Like all the xp quests being nerfed isn't classic

Well, we could add the level restriction on the Rogue epic, the nerf to Ivandyr's Hoop, AoE max targets for Bards, Chardok AoE nerf, some rechargable items being okay to recharge and others that could classically be recharged via vendor being prevented, etc. There's a lot of changes that P1999 put in for rock solid reasons. And then there's changes made to remain absolutely classic that appear questionable at best or petty at worst. Or non classic changes made just in the name of expediency.

A player always has the option to pick up their ball and go play elsewhere. Attempts in using reason or even facts tend to draw out the drug addicted spitefulness of the spectators, that's for certain.

[Dolalin]

Mage pets were research only 24+ until May 1999. Copious amounts of proof in this thread:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336142

Your pets shouldn't be casting spells or dual wielding, or even wielding weapons at all at this point in the timeline, so consider yourself lucky :D

Enchanters also have a fun surprise waiting for them.

[Meiva]

The skill needs to be trained up, which is a Herculean task, and the combines can easily fail. The higher the words the harder they are to get as well. I mean if this was for an extra element or tool of the class like damage shields or something, I’d understand, but for their pets?

I dont understand... just dump your skill points in Research. There is no cap on this like some skills. Nobody seems to know this.

Now if you've been throwing away your skill points... you're gonna have a bad time...

There is no other skill as a class with Research that I can think of dumping more than the one initial point in to. Maybe some tradeskills sure...

[Meiva]

Mage pets were research only 24+ until May 1999. Copious amounts of proof in this thread:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336142

Your pets shouldn't be casting spells or dual wielding, or even wieding weapons at all at this point in the timeline, so consider yourself lucky :D

Enchanters also have a fun surprise waiting for them.

Eww what??? The no Clarity thing? Does it get even worse?

[Dolalin]

Research can be trained at the GM all the way to 200 for about 2k so it's nothing more than a plat sink. It'll be ok guys.

On a side note, I suggest befriending a bard.

[derpcake2]

Research pages I believe are linked to different zones. You might want to start asking around and working on getting these spells. It sucks if you are in that top percentile because you will need to get the research materials yourself, but that's part of the deal when you choose a research based class.

I don't think you've ever done research in classic.

Noone is going to "get" the materials themselves, I farmed 11 hours straight in a "level appropriate" place for level 16 drops yesterday, and got 1 research component. Exactly one.

This included me making 5 levels, on NPCs with levels 14-18.

Looking at drops like Glove of Rallos Zek, the wiki lists it as "Random drop from any level ~24-39 mob", so you'd have to be killing mobs of at least level 24, with a level 20 pet. This only worsens with levels.

Want to make the level 29 air (https://wiki.project1999.com/Scent_of_Marr) pet? Go kill some lavaduct crawlers or brownie guards, both level 43+ mobs.

There is a reason this was patched.

[Dolalin]

Start auctioning WTB for those research components and other people will do the work for you.

I mean, it's supposed to be a social game...

[Ligma]

I've been watching Korith_FPS. They finally got word of dimension, at almost 31 lol

[Dolalin]

Research was put into the game as a brake on casters powering through content in a couple weeks. It's a timesink specifically designed for launch so Verant wouldn't lose their shirts. It serves its designed purpose pretty well imo.

[NegaStoat]

Meanwhile, Shaman have a horrendously slow start but really get the ball rolling at 34. Magicians and Necromancers NEED their full spell book to compete once they hit that mark. The game is what it is.

[derpcake2]

Research can be trained at the GM all the way to 200 for about 2k so it's nothing more than a plat sink. It'll be ok guys.

On a side note, I suggest befriending a bard.

The point isn't the cost of raising research, the point is that components are simply too rare, and the pets are too important.

I see you went through a lot of effort to have something which was officially recognized as broken implemented, so grats you I guess.

[Raclen]

You can farm some plat, train up to level 50 in research I think, and make your lower level spells with no extra effort. You can also buy words from vendors because there will be 2000 people running around selling shit like crazy to vendors. This isn't a hard thing to solve.

[Tecmos Deception]

Meanwhile, Shaman have a horrendously slow start but really get the ball rolling at 34. Magicians and Necromancers NEED their full spell book to compete once they hit that mark. The game is what it is.

Eh. I regularly remember not having a current-level pet on a necro even on blue, let alone classic, and necros still work just fine. Engulfing darkness, a couple of your most recent dots, and your most recent pet + fears while you med eat up blue cons even without having basically any of the research spells.

[derpcake2]

Research was put into the game as a brake on casters powering through content in a couple weeks. It's a timesink specifically designed for launch so Verant wouldn't lose their shirts. It serves its designed purpose pretty well imo.

This is nonsense and you don't have any proof for it.

They didn't add mage pets to vendors to remove a "brake", they did it because it was broken and borderline unplayable.

The 6 month mark after which they were added on live had a lot of people still in their 10-20s, this isn't 2 decades ago though, so implementing a fix on the same timeline is just being spiteful towards one class.

[derpcake2]

You can farm some plat, train up to level 50 in research I think, and make your lower level spells with no extra effort. You can also buy words from vendors because there will be 2000 people running around selling shit like crazy to vendors. This isn't a hard thing to solve.

Of course not, mages can just wait at 24 until other classes start grinding level 35 content, and with some luck they can scoop up the necessary stuff.

[Raclen]

I don't think you've ever done research in classic.

Noone is going to "get" the materials themselves, I farmed 11 hours straight in a "level appropriate" place for level 16 drops yesterday, and got 1 research component. Exactly one.

This included me making 5 levels, on NPCs with levels 14-18.

Looking at drops like Glove of Rallos Zek, the wiki lists it as "Random drop from any level ~24-39 mob", so you'd have to be killing mobs of at least level 24, with a level 20 pet. This only worsens with levels.

Want to make the level 29 air (https://wiki.project1999.com/Scent_of_Marr) pet? Go kill some lavaduct crawlers or brownie guards, both level 43+ mobs.

There is a reason this was patched.

You forgot the level 19 gargoyle in OOT and level 30 cyclops you can kill for the level 29 pet.

[Raclen]

You can dwell on it all you want but mediocre players are going to figure out how to play this game and get those pets.

[Dolalin]

The 6 month mark after which they were added on live

They were added in May 1999. That's two months.

It'll be ok guy.

[Cen]

What a minute bump in the road to the god class of classic.

Same with the epic. They want you to work your ass off for the greatest power in the game. The god of pets.

[zodium]

imagine complaining magicians aren't powerful enough

[Khikik]

I mean a magician was 2nd to level 30 and only by like 20 minutes so I hardly see how they are suffering...

[Enme]

Enme/Harms
Let me say that not having pets post 20 is going to slow mages and necros down in some ways but we are already killing lvl 35 content today. Mage pet words dropped tonight off lvl 24+ mobs so we will get what we need and keep rolling along.

P99 Green server is delivering a great experience to everyone. None of us are godmode in classic but that makes it fun, Big thanks to the P99 server crew for delivering a challenging and rewarding opportunity.

Everyone who is struggling or getting down, just take a breath and enjoy the journey - it's not going to come around very often.

See you in game - Harms, Green Magician

[fortior]

looool complaining about mages being too weak

[Jimjam]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the other research classes can carry on reasonably well without their research spells, no? A mage without a pet is just pointless.

You're not without pet, you're just with an underlevelled pet.

iirc wizards struggle to quad without research and need to either kill vox or research for their top spell.

I like that research is so important early game. Makes your character feel cutting edge, like its really unlocking some hidden power instead of just shopping at the superstore for new whitegoods.

[Baler]

level 31 mage online right now

[Tethler]

Thoughts and prayers

[greatdane]

That's what you get for playing a class with a pet that's stronger than players.

[Baler]

I told people Mage was going to be the fastest leveling class and they weren't bad in classic. *sigh*
Enchanter was 2nd in my prediction due to the secret trick(s)

[Dirkdaring]

Sounds like you need to make practice runes , to increase skill level, while farming vendors looking for the mats required to actually make the spell.

just like countless other mages have done for the last 20 years , myself included .

Practice Rune info is at the bottom, you need to craft the runes in the research book, separately, then combine them in the elemental grimore to complete the rune for skill ups, Good Luck .


https://wiki.project1999.com/Skill_Research

[Dolalin]

You didn't bet on my classicquest skills, Baler.

[Baler]

You didn't bet on my classicquest skills, Baler.

I'll concede to you Dolalin, your loot. :)

[fugazi]

iirc wizards struggle to quad without research and need to either kill vox or research for their top spell.


Struggle? You simply can't quad without your research quad spells.

[Ligma]

Well, they will be really good in a couple of weeks when there's a critical mass of components. Right now, if you choose mage to race to 50 you're gonna hit a wall.

[Baler]

I duoed on and off with a wizard, from when they were level 3 to level 16.
Wizard is much more useful in classic than velious. They get Root at level 4!!!
And their DD spells do well against the low hp classic mobs.
During classic they're welcome in my group.

doh this is a mage thread, ummm pets! er earth pet gets root, later..

[skorge]

This is nonsense and you don't have any proof for it.

They didn't add mage pets to vendors to remove a "brake", they did it because it was broken and borderline unplayable.

First of all I am glad the staff at P99 chose to implement how a mage works at classic. I am the main one that called for mage changes as I played a mage at launch, one of the very few. Big up to Dolalin for researching everything and providing proof.

Secondly to respond to your quote, there is actual proof of this from an interview with Brad in 1999. Brad himself referred to these changes an actual "enhancement" to the mage class and not a bug.

Finally, in actual vanilla classic, research skill was busted. In other words, it was IMPOSSIBLE to obtain a pet post 20 for 2.5 months in EQ. You are lucky they chose to have research actually working at these levels.

The amount of enemies I made on these forums when I first posted this stuff about mages was insane, lol...but in the end it's all about making the server more classic. Being a mage at launch was a totally different experience than it is on blue. You should be embracing it and looking at it s a positive thing. This all goes away in 2.5-3 month range. You can say you were part of a small group who had to research their pets as a mage. This is a good thing...you are experiencing being a mage in real 1999 (minus pets having casting spells which Green 2.0 will probably fix).

[skorge]

They were added in May 1999. That's two months.

It'll be ok guy.

Yes, late May at that.

[Dolalin]

Finally, in actual vanilla classic, research skill was busted. In other words, it was IMPOSSIBLE to obtain a pet post 20 for 2.5 months in EQ. You are lucky they chose to have research actually working at these levels.

Yeah, a big part of the hue and cry for pet spells to be on vendors was because research components were RARE, like 3x more rare than they are now, and half the recipes were simply broken.

It was easier to add those to vendors as a quick fix than to iron out all the bugs I imagine. They didn't fully fix research recipes until like September.

[Deathrydar]

All of the highest level characters are magicians. I think they are fine...

[skorge]

I mean a magician was 2nd to level 30 and only by like 20 minutes so I hardly see how they are suffering...

Wait until next time around (on Green 2.0) when mage pets won't be able to cast spells. On Green 1.0 they cast spells now. That got added in on the late May patch. :)

[Ligma]

To be fair, the mage in the lead has been completely carried. They didn't even get the stuff for 24 pet until 31.

[Hagglebaron]

To be fair, the mage in the lead has been completely carried. They didn't even get the stuff for 24 pet until 31.

I figured this was the case lol. Sucks that a few people seem to be deadset on ruining a class for everyone else.

Skilling up research, finding the right mats, and praying your combine doesn’t fail is a truly shity experience. Having to do it just to use the main tool of a class is nonsense.

[skorge]

I figured this was the case lol. Sucks that a few people seem to be deadset on killing a class for everyone else.

This was exactly how it was in real 1999. Our highest mage was in Fires of Heaven (on Veeshan server). He was level 28 using the level 20 pet at the time. He was always in a guild group. Me and him were top mages. I was 24.

This was when I decided to roll a druid, lol...I wasn't in a guild and my groups sucked at the time, lol.

PS: at the time I did not know when they would add that pet vendor or fix research...had i known the pet vendor would have been in soon I would have stuck with the mage...none the less the mage was super fun 1-24...i just didnt get the advantage the FOH guy got with good groups lol. Old school classic groups sucked butt...nobody knew how to taunt or pull good.

[Khorza]

Skilling up research, finding the right mats, and praying your combine doesn’t fail is a truly shity experience.

So what though, you could say the same thing about every experience in EQ. Waiting 2 hours to find a group and then dying on the first pull is a shitty experience too but that's classic EQ and there's a reason why we keep coming back to it.

[skorge]

I figured this was the case lol. Sucks that a few people seem to be deadset on ruining a class for everyone else.

Skilling up research, finding the right mats, and praying your combine doesn’t fail is a truly shity experience. Having to do it just to use the main tool of a class is nonsense.

You have to realize this was Brad's vision of the class at the time. He later enhanced the class. You can't deny this. You are playing the game now exactly how Brad envisioned it for this era.

[Dolalin]

A lot of people need to make peace with the fact that the reason classic EQ was so rewarding was because it was so unforgiving. The pleasure and pain are intertwined. Just roll with it.

[Danger]

of all of the angry threads in the green forum this might be my favorite

[ldgo86]

You have to realize this was Brad's vision of the class at the time. He later enhanced the class. You can't deny this. You are playing the game now exactly how Brad envisioned it for this era.

Yes, a totally normal and sober vision..

[Baler]

A lot of people need to make peace with the fact that the reason classic EQ was so rewarding was because it was so unforgiving. The pleasure and pain are intertwined. Just roll with it.

Well said.

I want to add that modern games are more quick to reward players. Classic Everquest you have to work for what you have. There is so paying with a credit card to get a boost or quick quest that will grant you an entire level with BiS gear.

older video games > newer video games
---
I think today's people have a shorter attention span than people of yester-year. Cell phones make communication instant. The Internet allows information to be passed at the click of a button. Food is prepackaged in a box. Homes are built for us. Our safety is placed in the hands of people we don't know.

When we presume things will be provided for us is when we forget how to provide those things.
People have forgotten how to work hard and how hard, work can be.
The reward for hard work is so much sweeter. It gives us self worth, we accomplished something.

[senna]

This thread is super misguided. Which is to be expected of OP who spent 99% of his time on blue crammed into a corner of EC tunnel.

Research is like a blip in the radar of difficulty. In fact some ultra neckbeard mage and Necro are probably already at the skill level and farming mats to sell for your shiny coppers as we speak. You can't even begin to compare it to the difficulty of say, a melee class, who doesn't even begin to come online till the end of velious and p99 orange gets announced.:D

[Deathrydar]

This thread is super misguided. Which is to be expected of OP who spent 99% of his time on blue crammed into a corner of EC tunnel.

[Danger]

Maybe the real pets are the friends we made along the way.

[skipdog]

If you have actual counters to any points I’ve made, I really would like to hear them. Maybe I’m looking at this wrong, but my points seem valid. If you’re just here to troll (see what I did there), thanks for stopping in I guess.


LOL, wow, talk about entitlement! 'My points seem valid, so quite DISAGREEING WITH ME AND LET ME EZMODE STRAIGHT TO 50!!

The argument is that this is a classic server. It's that simple. There are a million things they could change that would 'make life easier' for all of us. Part of the classic experience is that some classes have to use their research skill for some spells. Some classes have shit gear for awhile. Some classes and races have XP penalties so huge,
it takes some of them TWICE as long to make it to 60. Your arguments don't matter. You just want something changed to make things easier for you.

And yes, OP thinks that anybody who disagrees with him is "deadset on ruining a class for everyone else". He thinks the forums should just be filled up with posts of people whining about any of green's classic features that slow them down, totally devoid of anybody wanting to defend those classic features.

[kotton05]

Mage is already easy mode stop crying OP brad bless

[magusfire24]

I will just do research on my mage. Make all the spells. Sell them to other classes and retire a wealthy man. LOL

[cd288]

So mages are supposed to level up an entire trade skill, scour the world for materials, many of them completely random drops and rare, just to use their pets.

Verant changed this for a reason, but hey if shits classic shits classic I guess...

Well, at least you eventually get a patch. There are other casters, like Enchanters, where multiple important spells can only be acquired through Research throughout the whole timeline. So I don't really feel bad that your Research requirement is temporary.

[Palemoon]

I’ve been waiting for this thread

[Meiva]

I’ve been waiting for this thread

Poor poor mages. Said no one ever.

And it's only affecting the top 1% of neckbeards because there aren't enough research mats in circulation as of yet.

Lmao. Thread closed. Embarrassing.

[El-Hefe]

Lol, mages just steamroll levels 1 - 24 and you’re complaining about research?

[Valion]

LOL at all the gloating haters.

[silo32]

wow everquest is so hard... maybe try maple story?

I heard world of warcraft is similar to everquest, try that?

[Jeni]

The easiest class to level and the reason you picked it has a minor inconvenience? So unfair none of the other classes have difficulty leveling!

[WaffleztheAndal]

Wow, so much toxicity and vitriol in this thread lol. Must have been a lot of pent up mage hate building.

Then again toxicity and vitriol seem common in this game.

[silo32]

Gonna roll up a mage and sell researched spells to bad mages for an absorbent amount of plat...

did the same on blue in the early years, quit profitable

[Baler]

I really like my mage on blue. Great raw plat farmer, even without epic.

[Valion]

Just don't forget until the quest is re-implemented practice rune research isn't possible due to the lack of a Concordance of Research.

[Dolalin]

Just don't forget until the quest is re-implemented practice rune research isn't possible due to the lack of a Concordance of Research.

You can train Research all the way up to 200 at the guild master. Practice research has always been a joke.

[Hagglebaron]

First of all I am glad the staff at P99 chose to implement how a mage works at classic. I am the main one that called for mage changes as I played a mage at launch, one of the very few. Big up to Dolalin for researching everything and providing proof.

Secondly to respond to your quote, there is actual proof of this from an interview with Brad in 1999. Brad himself referred to these changes an actual "enhancement" to the mage class and not a bug.

Finally, in actual vanilla classic, research skill was busted. In other words, it was IMPOSSIBLE to obtain a pet post 20 for 2.5 months in EQ. You are lucky they chose to have research actually working at these levels.

The amount of enemies I made on these forums when I first posted this stuff about mages was insane, lol...but in the end it's all about making the server more classic. Being a mage at launch was a totally different experience than it is on blue. You should be embracing it and looking at it s a positive thing. This all goes away in 2.5-3 month range. You can say you were part of a small group who had to research their pets as a mage. This is a good thing...you are experiencing being a mage in real 1999 (minus pets having casting spells which Green 2.0 will probably fix).

I’m going to try to see it in this light, shits classic means shits classic I guess.

[flacidpenguin]

So mages are supposed to level up an entire trade skill, scour the world for materials, many of them completely random drops and rare, just to use their pets.

Verant changed this for a reason, but hey if shits classic shits classic I guess...

Oasis crocs drop a ton of research materials, as does stuff in mistmoore and unrest. Check the vendors near there.

[Erati]

wtb Gloves of Rallos Zek

PM

[Chortles Snort|eS]

ImAgiNe playIng EvErQueSt?!?!

https://i.imgur.com/lufDSpW.gif

[Nirgon]

I figured this was the case lol. Sucks that a few people seem to be deadset on ruining a class for everyone else.

Skilling up research, finding the right mats, and praying your combine doesn’t fail is a truly shity experience. Having to do it just to use the main tool of a class is nonsense.

Making it classic is a success for this project. I fail to see how anything was ruined.

[Obrae]

Research was put into the game as a brake on casters powering through content in a couple weeks. It's a timesink specifically designed for launch so Verant wouldn't lose their shirts. It serves its designed purpose pretty well imo.

This guy is making shit up as it goes, what a troll :)

[Jimjam]

Making it classic is a success for this project. I fail to see how anything was ruined.

Mage pets currently unclassic op.

[Obrae]

A lot of people need to make peace with the fact that the reason classic EQ was so rewarding was because it was so unforgiving. The pleasure and pain are intertwined. Just roll with it.

WTH are you talking about ? people abandonned the class in classic.
So many people giving opinions that were not even playing during the couple fist months.

Then they come here speaking as if they knew how it was. 200 people in a zone... it was like this at launch they said. All people speaking out of their hole :)

And pet did not inccur any penalty on exp at launch period. I am sorry you guys weren't playing at the time. Those who did know.

So our nerds decided they would mess the mages, lets roll with it who cares. This server will be abandonned in a couple weeks when everyone is 50 and there is nothing to do.

[Jibartik]

ImAgiNe playIng EvErQueSt?!?!

Like you're doing right now?

Yikes :o

[whitebandit]

Like you're doing right now?

Yikes :o

no remember, he got suspended... hes just jelly we get to play EQ still :-D

[Jibartik]

no remember, he got suspended... hes just jelly we get to play EQ still :-D

He's imagining playing right now I meant lol

I feel bad for him but tisk tisk dont lie to the GM when you sent them a video! lol :o

[uygi]

So mages are supposed to level up an entire trade skill, scour the world for materials, many of them completely random drops and rare, just to use their pets.

Yes :D
Thread is too long not gonna read all that cus you answered own question so well!

P.S. All you whiners obviously didn’t play classic. This shit is hard. The idea was to come to P99, especially Green, to experience all the pain and suffering that’s missing from all the other games. Basically:

Whiners: “WTB Classic, hard-mode EQ”
Nilbog: “Sure! Here you go, free game bro! Enjoy!”
Whiners: “Fuck you and your server! You assholes gave us exactly what was promised! Demand refund etc.”

[Modwolf]

My first char on live was a mage;research made me quit him. Never played int class since. Fuck that noise.

[cd288]

Yes :D
Thread is too long not gonna read all that cus you answered own question so well!

P.S. All you whiners obviously didn’t play classic. This shit is hard. The idea was to come to P99, especially Green, to experience all the pain and suffering that’s missing from all the other games. Basically:

Whiners: “WTB Classic, hard-mode EQ”
Nilbog: “Sure! Here you go, free game bro! Enjoy!”
Whiners: “Fuck you and your server! You assholes gave us exactly what was promised! Demand refund etc.”

Actually, actual classic was easier than P99's version. For example, at EQ launch pets didn't take any EXP at all. So AFK EXPing was so easy to do; just park your pet on a blue mob spawn point and let it go to town, getting you 100% EXP for doing nothing lol. There were many changes made throughout the first year or so to make the game harder because it was pretty easy at launch once you figured out what you were doing.

[derpcake2]

I mean a magician was 2nd to level 30 and only by like 20 minutes so I hardly see how they are suffering...

This magician was carried, you know that I guess.

Anyway, were the drop tables on research components reviewed, to make it realistic to research pet spells, or was it intended that magicians wouldn't have 24+ pets until groups at least 7 levels above the pet level farmed enough content to make the items readily available?

I'm going to guess no loot tables were reviewed, because a 31 mage saw his first research component for a pet .. a level 24 one at that.

Also a final question, when can we expect to see necro / mage pets attack with the delay of weapons given to them? Mage / necro pet with a FS dagger should be attacking at 1.8 delay soon, for quite some months.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[uygi]

Research drops tables on blue matched my memory of Live, and so far Green matches as well.

It’s true, there are a lot of game mechanics details that were just beyond the scope of Green at this time. Something that was obviously imbalanced and changed early being left out isn’t going to destroy the game. Can’t loot other players corpses? I think we can deal with that. Original necro charm spells not being in? Deal with it, it wasn’t a great idea then and it still isn’t; that’s one of the broken things about the game that P99 hasn’t bothered to recreate. You know, cus it’s developed by random people as a hobby for which they are paid not in dollars but in whiny tears.

[Jeni]

By carried you mean had to group like 90% of the other classes to level?

[derpcake2]

Research drops tables on blue matched my memory of Live, and so far Green matches as well.

Cute.

[cd288]

By carried you mean had to group like 90% of the other classes to level?

Meaning they had a group of friends/guildies who were willing to keep the mage in the EXP group past 20 even though he was sub-optimal past the mid-20s because he couldn't research his pet.

[senna]

Yes :D
Thread is too long not gonna read all that cus you answered own question so well!

P.S. All you whiners obviously didn’t play classic. This shit is hard. The idea was to come to P99, especially Green, to experience all the pain and suffering that’s missing from all the other games. Basically:

Whiners: “WTB Classic, hard-mode EQ”
Nilbog: “Sure! Here you go, free game bro! Enjoy!”
Whiners: “Fuck you and your server! You assholes gave us exactly what was promised! Demand refund etc.”


Except this isnt classic EQ

Increased spawn rates? nerfed quests? pets taking xp? lists for legacy items? the list goes on and on and the plot has been lost

This is an emulation of everquest just like all the other emu servers :D:D:D:cool:

[Wwen42]

I'll help your mag get his stuff with my necro if you don't have it by the time I hit 20. Currently lvl 6.

[Ligma]

By carried you mean had to group like 90% of the other classes to level?

Was watching. The mage was literally the tank. He just pulled and tanked for osargen while a druid and cleric healed and chanter runed.

[NegaStoat]

Wow, so much toxicity and vitriol in this thread lol. Must have been a lot of pent up mage hate building.

Then again toxicity and vitriol seem common in this game.

It's the drugs. The drug scene morphing normal people into internet tough guys is more common here than anywhere else.

[Meiva]

Was watching. The mage was literally the tank. He just pulled and tanked for osargen while a druid and cleric healed and chanter runed.

Ah, they were that group in HHK then? I scouted them out when I stopped in for lvl 8 and 12 pet scrolls. Noone was working very hard. Not sure we can claim the mage was "carried" lol. They trivialized 20 y/o content.

[Tecmos Deception]

Except this isnt classic EQ

Increased spawn rates? nerfed quests? pets taking xp? lists for legacy items? the list goes on and on and the plot has been lost

This is an emulation of everquest just like all the other emu servers :D:D:D:cool:

But it's an emulation that's like 95+% classic. You can't seriously deny that, even though it does have custom elements. And that's why people are here.

[Wwen42]

It's the drugs. The drug scene morphing normal people into internet tough guys is more common here than anywhere else.

Hugs not drugs /straight edge

[Israel Adesanya]

Necros have far more going for them than mages though, a mage without a pet is just a shitty wizard that can’t port lol.

Do you feel it? Do you feel the power of the dark side? The only real power! The only thing worth living for!

[senna]

But it's an emulation that's like 95+% classic. You can't seriously deny that, even though it does have custom elements. And that's why people are here.

Its a classic based server sure. But you cant have your cake and eat it too. Green definitely went the custom route here.

It just feels 'different' now

The legacy items dont feel as legacy etc

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Mages get at least 1 of their pets every spell level. The other 2-3 are researched at each spell level. Mages were historically one of the classes that were the most reliant on research, it was kind of their flavor that set them apart from other classes. With great power came a great hurdle to overcome to claim that power. The upside is that research only spells sell for quite a bit and it’s a worthwhile trade skill. You can skill up on researching other classes spells too and make your money back and even turn a profit. Welcome to classic, nothing comes easy, not even spells.

Great IDEA except Necro and Enchanters are FAR more powerful than Mages....

[Vizax_Xaziv]

A lot of people need to make peace with the fact that the reason classic EQ was so rewarding was because it was so unforgiving.

That's not true at all. It's the Risk vs. Reward equation that the game offers.

Having the difficulty, with absolutely NO REWARDS defeats that purpose entirely. And this is the case with research-only pets. There's literally NO WAY to acquire them yourself without purchasing the extremely-rare, randomly-dropped, mats from other players.

It's 100% pure luck and nothing more. Go hop on Blue99, a server that's been running for TEN YEARS, and let me know how easy it is to find enough components for a SINGLE researched spell.

So Magicians are required to Research ALL pets post-20, because "Classic." Fine. They should also then be updated so that pets accrue ZERO experience as long as the player deals at least one point of damage AND giving them specific weapons should also change their attack speed.

[derpcake2]

It will never cease to amaze me how people that invest countless hours posting biased and/or partial evidence influence the game.

[kotton05]

Sorry you can’t research

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Sorry you can’t research

It's funny, you talking about how Mages are "overpowered," considering you play a fucking IKSAR MONK in Velious era.

Really sucks having wasted the entirety of launch weekend. NEVER would have rolled a Magician had I known this ahead of time. Oh well. NO WAY I'm doing the level 1-10 worst-part-of-the-game grind again!

Good luck yall!

[piraet119]

My necro on blue leveled 20-29 using the lvl 20 pet. I couldn't ever get the lvl 24pet words to drop nor could I find anyone selling/vendors that had the words for sale. It was tedious, yes. Frustrating, yes. However when I got that 29 pet wooee did I feel powerful. Keep at it. Find caster mobs that your pet can taunt just long enough for you to blow them up w/nukes. That's how I did it and necro nuke at 24 is even crappier than mage nuke ;)

EDIT: Also this is my first toon on P99 so I was wearing zippo twink gear aside from what I could buy cheap from Ecommons splitting plat pieces. You'll get a deeper understanding of how to flex your character. Muscle it out!

[Yoite]

NEVER would have rolled a Magician had I known this ahead of time.
Good luck yall!

i mean research kinda sucks i agree but dude you had plenty of time and ways to know it was gonna be this way.

also, its not as bad as a multiple page thread makes it out to be. Plenty of us researched pets and other spells 1st time around on blue. Sure you are not going to get your new pet right away or even today. But you will get it. Just need more folks to catch up and start trading words and runes.

[Dolalin]

So Magicians are required to Research ALL pets post-20, because "Classic." Fine. They should also then be updated so that pets accrue ZERO experience as long as the player deals at least one point of damage AND giving them specific weapons should also change their attack speed.

1) The pet exp mechanic you think is classic was a Luclin change. Rich Waters explains it here.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=960

2) Magician pets couldn't wield weapons of any type until January 2000. They couldn't dual wield till then either.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335906

In short you have no idea what you're talking about.

[kjs86z]

Anyone saying research is hard is mad / bad / sad.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

i mean research kinda sucks i agree but dude you had plenty of time and ways to know it was gonna be this way.

also, its not as bad as a multiple page thread makes it out to be. Plenty of us researched pets and other spells 1st time around on blue. Sure you are not going to get your new pet right away or even today. But you will get it. Just need more folks to catch up and start trading words and runes.

Mage pet research also requires the PREVIOUS-level pet spell. So if you wanna research a level 34 pet you'll actually have to research four pet spells to do so.

Why are Mages being SELECTIVELY nerfed to make them "Classic?" If that's what we're doing here then Mage pets should steal ZERO XP as long as the owner deals just one point of damage - THAT is ALSO "Classic!"

[Dolalin]

If that's what we're doing here then Mage pets should steal ZERO XP as long as the owner deals just one point of damage - THAT is ALSO "Classic!"

Except it isn't. :rolleyes:

[Vizax_Xaziv]

1) The pet exp mechanic you think is classic was a Luclin change. Rich Waters explains it here.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=960

2) Magician pets couldn't wield weapons of any type until January 2000. They couldn't dual wield till then either.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335906

In short you have no idea what you're talking about.

Just curious, what class are you playing on Green? You've spent the last several months trying to get Mages nerfed is what it looks like based on your post-history.

[Dolalin]

Just curious, what class are you playing on Green? You've spent the last several months trying to get Mages nerfed is what it looks like based on your post-history.

I'm playing a bard at the moment, a class I found evidence for most of their 38+ songs being missing until later points in the timeline.

So I gimped myself :eek:

[Baler]

farmed more thousands of plat than people have posted in this thread with a mage.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I'm playing a bard at the moment, a class I found evidence for most of their 38+ songs being missing until later points in the timeline.

So I gimped myself :eek:

But I'm sure you'll be swarm kiting to level quite quickly. Exactly what songs will be missing? You'll still be hugely desired for groups. A level 30 Mage with a level 20 Air Pet isn't gonna be getting ANY group invites, and he isn't gonna be able to solo either.

And the current speedrunners who are leveling in premade groups don't count as evidence to the contrary. We're talking PUGs not premade groups

[Dolalin]

But I'm sure you'll be swarm kiting to level quite quickly.

With the AoE limit of 4 mobs that I also found evidence for and that Rogean implemented? :D

I have no power here. I present evidence and the staff choose or don't choose to implement things. That's it.

I just really like the idea of classic, hardmode EQ.

[Wenai]

I didn't read like any of this thread...

How the hell is there 15 pages complaining about research. LOL. Researching spells was only one of the small hurdles for a pure caster in the original game. You don't need gear, and can easily solo for both EXP and Plat. Imagine being a warrior or rogue who is dependent on gear and have almost no way of earning plat on their own.

[magusfire24]

I vividly remember research. It is a challenge. But I loved it and look forward to it here. Once you hit 16 take time and do the research for spells. Not a huge deal to me. I love crafting. I will be doing tailoring and blacksmithing too.

[Jeni]

I didn't read like any of this thread...

How the hell is there 15 pages complaining about research. LOL. Researching spells was only one of the small hurdles for a pure caster in the original game. You don't need gear, and can easily solo for both EXP and Plat. Imagine being a warrior or rogue who is dependent on gear and have almost no way of earning plat on their own.

Because modern gamers have come to rely on their whining to make challenges easier vs actually rising and overcoming obstacles. These are the people who thought they were signing up for the easy life and now forced into the realization they may have to put out some effort to succeed.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I didn't read like any of this thread...

How the hell is there 15 pages complaining about research. LOL. Researching spells was only one of the small hurdles for a pure caster in the original game. You don't need gear, and can easily solo for both EXP and Plat. Imagine being a warrior or rogue who is dependent on gear and have almost no way of earning plat on their own.

Been there done that. Warriors and Rogues level quite fast in groups. How is a Mage gonna be "soloing for both EXP and Plat" with a pet thats 10+ levels lower than him?

Meanwhile Enchanters are charming level 28 mobs that backstab for over a hundred damage.

[derpcake2]

I didn't read like any of this thread...

How the hell is there 15 pages complaining about research. LOL. Researching spells was only one of the small hurdles for a pure caster in the original game. You don't need gear, and can easily solo for both EXP and Plat. Imagine being a warrior or rogue who is dependent on gear and have almost no way of earning plat on their own.

You mean like the rogue that got a 6/23 piercer based on NBG, at lvl 15?

The rogue was actually the highest level in group.

If you think the progression on this server is anywhere near classic, you need to consult the stats you should have access to.

[Gustoo]

Yeah research is part of being an intelligence caster.

[derpcake2]

I mean I'm not even going to mention the trio that was clearing half of mistmoore today.

Lol mages OP.

[derpcake2]

Yeah research is part of being an intelligence caster.

So is having pets attack at weapon delay speed.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Gotta love seeing people who are playing Enchanters, Necromancers and Shaman calling Mages OP. Haha what a joke.

[quido]

Shut up crybaby mages - like your leveling path isn't easy enough. Go sit on a single decaying skeleton spawn or something.

[Gustoo]

I also want to fix the pet exp nerf.

I want full classic which means research and no pet exp loss.

It's sad to let your pet die due to exp split balogna.

[derpcake2]

Anyway, at the speed a trio is currently clearing mistmoore, expect the first level 50s in the next 3 days tops.

There won't be a magician in that list.

[Wenai]

If you think the progression on this server is anywhere near classic, you need to consult the stats you should have access to.
I am not currently an active developer. I have not been since about 2011. I am however the one who originally did all of the research drops for P1999. I doubt they have changed that much. I was definitely pretty generous in the drop rates, and the system is extremely simple to understand.

Just auction for research components, check merchants etc. I mean there IS a disproportionate amount of necromancers and magicians. But that is a fault of the community, not the game.

[derpcake2]

Shut up crybaby mages - like your leveling path isn't easy enough. Go sit on a single decaying skeleton spawn or something.

I think you posted in the wrong thread, noone asked for a zoneline hugger.

[derpcake2]

I am not currently an active developer. I have not been since about 2011. I am however the one who originally did all of the research drops for P1999. I doubt they have changed that much. I was definitely pretty generous in the drop rates, and the system is extremely simple to understand.

Just auction for research components, check merchants etc. I mean there IS a disproportionate amount of necromancers and magicians. But that is a fault of the community, not the game.

You were "generous" on the droprates?

You do understand a magician that got PLed across various zones only saw his first pet component, a lvl 24 one, at level 31?

"just check merchants"?

Are you boxing, or do you have the money to vendor dive across continents?

Can you port me?

I don't think you have played this game.

"just auction", we should do that in EC right?

Going to give you 5 stars for trolling.

[Dolalin]

I also want to fix the pet exp nerf.

I want full classic which means research and no pet exp loss.

It's sad to let your pet die due to exp split balogna.

People keep saying this and it doesn't seem like it's true. From the things I've read while doing research, pets had been stealing xp since EQ beta.

[Wenai]

Gotta love seeing people who are playing Enchanters, Necromancers and Shaman calling Mages OP. Haha what a joke.

Enchanters, and Necromancers are definitely better classes than Magician in classic.

However Shaman is really not all that hot as a solo class in classic. They become gods in Kunark, but for the time being they are pretty mediocre.

[NegaStoat]

Shut up crybaby mages - like your leveling path isn't easy enough. Go sit on a single decaying skeleton spawn or something.

Y'all need Jesus. He dispenses unlimited reloads for packets of death.

[Wenai]

You were "generous" on the droprates?

You do understand a magician that got PLed across various zones only saw his first pet component, a lvl 24 one, at level 31?

If you are going to steamroll content and try and push through it as quick as possible, yeah your likelihood of finding those components is going to be reduced. People have played on Blue for 10 years. I don't know if there was ever a complaint about research components lol.

In fact I played on blue myself. I used to collect all the research components on my cleric as I leveled up. I had gathered enough research components just playing the game, and checking vendors to make 4-8 copies of the pet spells at every level. Green has a WAY larger community than blue did at launch. Realistically there should be far more research components dropping on Green than ever dropped on Blue.

However, the proportion of Magicians and Necromancers has become much more disproportionate. This will result in the idea that they are dropping less, because way more people need them.

[derpcake2]

If you are going to steamroll content and try and push through it as quick as possible, yeah your likelihood of finding those components is going to be reduced. People have played on Blue for 10 years. I don't know if there was ever a complaint about research components lol.

In fact I played on blue myself. I used to collect all the research components on my cleric as I leveled up. I had gathered enough research components just playing the game, and checking vendors to make 4-8 copies of the pet spells at every level. Green has a WAY larger community than blue did at launch. Realistically there should be far more research components dropping on Green than ever dropped on Blue.

However, the proportion of Magicians and Necromancers has become much more disproportionate. This will result in the idea that they are dropping less, because way more people need them.

You answered none of the questions I asked, your suggestions are bogus, I don't care about how you did on blue 5 years after it went live.

The fact that you suggest collecting all the research components yourself shows you have no connection to green as is.

I checked vendors today, did you? Don't let that discourage you from posting more of your stories though, I'm sure someone cares.

[Wenai]

You answered none of the questions I asked, your suggestions are bogus, I don't care about how you did on blue 5 years after it went live.

The fact that you suggest collecting all the research components yourself shows you have no connection to green as is.
5 years after it went live? Lol. I was there day one. I was in the beta. What are you talking about?

What do you mean you can't collect them yourself lol?

I have a question. When you are killing on your Magician, and an Enchanter research piece drops what do you do with it?

A. Let it rot.
B. Destroy it.
C. Loot it and vendor it.
D. Loot it and trade/sell it.

[Yoite]

is this going to be the new mega thread of nonsense?

[bum3]

You answered none of the questions I asked, your suggestions are bogus, I don't care about how you did on blue 5 years after it went live.

The fact that you suggest collecting all the research components yourself shows you have no connection to green as is.

I checked vendors today, did you? Don't let that discourage you from posting more of your stories though, I'm sure someone cares.

You are not suppose to gather them yourself.. You are suppose to play it with tons of people and make friends and share items/wealth and grow together. My mage is only lvl 5 and my highest char is 9.. and I already have 4 pages of Tyranny and 3 of Dominion.. because my homies lookin out for me. I'll sell them to you for a rubi bp.

[Wenai]

is this going to be the new mega thread of nonsense?

Yes. Magicians have killed seven level appropriate creatures and have 0 of their spells. They are raging mad and demand justice.

[Wenai]

You are not suppose to gather them yourself.. You are suppose to play it with tons of people and make friends and share items/wealth and grow together. My mage is only lvl 5 and my highest char is 9.. and I already have 4 pages of Tyranny and 3 of Dominion.. because my homies lookin out for me. I'll sell them to you for a rubi bp.
See this guy gets it LOL.

I guarantee that guy lets Enchanter pages rot.

The Enchanter soloing across the zone is letting Magician pages rot.

They both like... Why I haff no research spell?

[Dolalin]

You are not suppose to gather them yourself.. You are suppose to play it with tons of people and make friends and share items/wealth and grow together. My mage is only lvl 5 and my highest char is 9.. and I already have 4 pages of Tyranny and 3 of Dominion.. because my homies lookin out for me. I'll sell them to you for a rubi bp.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

However, the proportion of Magicians and Necromancers has become much more disproportionate. This will result in the idea that they are dropping less, because way more people need them.

Which is funny AGAIN as the number of Enchanters is nearing the COMBINED number of Mages and Necros together.

Lucky for Enchanters they aren't required to research for their class to be at all useful.

Good luck finding a group as a 24+ Mage with a level 20 pet -- let alone a level 34 Mage with a level 24 pet.

[Dolalin]

Which is funny AGAIN as the number of Enchanters is nearing the COMBINED number of Mages and Necros together.

Lucky for Enchanters they aren't required to research for their class to be at all useful.

Funny you bring up Enchanters... that's another penny waiting to drop, lol.

Nobody got out unscathed from classicquest my man.

[Wenai]

See. I have always had this feeling that most people who play Magicians are just bad at this game. This thread is just re-confirming my suspicions. I feel bad for the great magicians out there that are getting a bad name from this thread.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Funny you bring up Enchanters...

Yes you keep alluding to something regarding Enchanters. Would you like to explain what exactly it is? You sure seem to enjoy the thought of Chanters getting pissed off when they find out what it is.

Perhaps some additional people would like to reroll before sinking 100 hours into their characters. You seem to enjoy people getting angry when they find out their class is "nerfed."

[Baler]

See. I have always had this feeling that most people who play Magicians are just bad at this game. This thread is just re-confirming my suspicions. I feel bad for the great magicians out there that are getting a bad name from this thread.

The problem is velious summoning..

You give me a 60 mage with epic,. or without epic,.. and no summoning.

[NegaStoat]

Yes you keep alluding to something regarding Enchanters. Would you like to explain what exactly it is? You sure seem to enjoy the thought of Chanters getting pissed off when they find out what it is.

Perhaps some additional people would like to reroll before sinking 100 hours into their characters. You seem to enjoy people getting angry when they find out their class is "nerfed."

Clarity isn't in this release because of 'classic'. I think that's what they're talking about. I'm uncertain when it's added to the game.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

See. I have always had this feeling that most people who play Magicians are just bad at this game. This thread is just re-confirming my suspicions. I feel bad for the great magicians out there that are getting a bad name from this thread.

Actually its literally the first time I've EVER played a Magician past level 10 or so. My main on Blue is a Halfling Warrior (whom I leveled BEFORE Kunark released). Wanted to try a new Class this time. Mage is all about the pet, obivously, and so I never would have rolled one had I know this was the case.

[Yoite]

enc lvl 49 charm is research only i think

[Vizax_Xaziv]

Clarity isn't in this release because of 'classic'. I think that's what they're talking about. I'm uncertain when it's added to the game.

LMAO if that's the case. Saying that Chanters not be able to cast Clarity is anywhere near comparable to a Mage not having his pet is funny.

[Dolalin]

Clarity and mage pets on vendors were both patched in in May 1999.

Two months from now.

[Wenai]

Clarity and mage pets on vendors were both patched in in May 1999.

Two months from now.

And it is certain pets at each level right? I think it might rotate around.

[cd288]

People keep saying this and it doesn't seem like it's true. From the things I've read while doing research, pets had been stealing xp since EQ beta.

This is actually incorrect. At launch, they didn't have pet EXP sharing in at all. They ultimately implemented changes when players realized how to abuse the system with AFK pet camping. They also changed Necro FD to have a fixed duration around the same time for similar reasons (FDing in perpetuity making AFK pet EXPing extra safe because the mob wouldn't put you on the hate list).

[Yoite]

yea its like 1 or 2 pets per range. sometimes you get vendor fire and earth, sometimes its water/air, etc

[Enme]

This only affects the early advanced players. By the time the average leveling player gets to 24 there will be words on vendors or players selling them.

It's not going to crush mages just slow us down a little, we can take it.

Keep on rolling this server is turning out great!

Enme/Harms Magician Green/Blue Server

[WaffleztheAndal]

This only affects the early advanced players. By the time the average leveling player gets to 24 there will be words on vendors or players selling them.

It's not going to crush mages just slow us down a little, we can take it.

Keep on rolling this server is turning out great!

Enme/Harms Magician Green/Blue Server

You have a group willing to carry your useless mage ass don't you lmao. Come clean man.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

You have a group willing to carry your useless mage ass don't you lmao. Come clean man.

OBVIOUSLY he does, yes.

[NegaStoat]

This is actually incorrect. At launch, they didn't have pet EXP sharing in at all. They ultimately implemented changes when players realized how to abuse the system with AFK pet camping. They also changed Necro FD to have a fixed duration around the same time for similar reasons (FDing in perpetuity making AFK pet EXPing extra safe because the mob wouldn't put you on the hate list).

This is correct. The other very, very early bug with experience that was available on launch was that there was a small bonus for being in a group from incoming experience from a killed target, and this bonus was increased based on group size. No new news there, you say? Well, people were spam inviting people into groups in different zones while solo killing in their zone of choice without any of the group members being in that zone. They got the full exp of the target that was killed since no one else in the group was in the zone, plus the bonus. This was nerfed about two to three weeks before the change to /consent to be a corpse drag only.

I'll confess, guilty as charged. My guild and I abused that expeience bug. Probably the only time in my gaming life I was happy to be solo leveling in Everfrost.

[Enme]

You have a group willing to carry your useless mage ass don't you lmao. Come clean man.

I have been farming the Evil Eye for 3 days what are you doin? LoL

Enme/Harms Magician Green/Blue Servers

[Old_PVP]

So many noobs when it comes to research. Literally one of the easiest skills to raise and make a profit on. Here's some tips... many people sell all sorts of pages, words, runes and research components to vendors... keep an eye out for those things. Buy them, and stockpile them in your bank. As you level, remember to keep putting 5 more points into research skill with every level...yes...your trainer will do the work for you...all the way up to max. You're welcome.

Use your stockpile of pages, words, runes to sell researched only spells to lazy fools who don't know any better. You're welcome again.

[silo32]

sorry you lost

[Baler]

TL : DR mage is very strong and OP didnt roll mage.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

sorry you lost

Yea sucks that I wasted the entire launch weekend for the Classic EQ release that I've been waiting years for. That's OK though, I'll just go back to Classic WOW.

[Danger]

JFC it's just some research pages rofl

image being so fragile that u wait for something for years then get crushed at the first obstacle and just give up after a huge time investment

[AegnorP99]

Sounds like you've got the opportunity to quest for a new spell! Switch your mindset and it could be fun.

[derpcake2]

I have been farming the Evil Eye for 3 days what are you doin? LoL

Enme/Harms Magician Green/Blue Servers

sending thoughts and prayers

[derpcake2]

Sounds like you've got the opportunity to quest for a new spell! Switch your mindset and it could be fun.

can see why u 9

[Danger]

https://i.imgur.com/ffGHyVJ.png

[AegnorP99]

can see why u 9

Haha. Truth.

[Palemoon]

https://i.imgur.com/ffGHyVJ.png

you forgot the giant bottle of lotion to the left of the monitor

[Baler]

Who is this user?: Danger (https://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=20728)

I'm very, curious

[Skitzoh]

"OmG GuYs ThIS GaME SuX! CaN YoU BeLIeVE tHEy ArE MaKiNg mE qUEsT FoR oNe oF tHe StRonGeST sPeLls mY cLAsS hAs i sHOuLd hAvE beEn aBle to sOLo tO MaX LEvEl bY NoW aND buY eVERyThInG ofF thE mERcHaNt"

[NegaStoat]

Who is this user?: Danger (https://www.project1999.com/forums/member.php?u=20728)

I'm very, curious

No idea, but I played it safe and added him to the ranks of Systolic and Relapse40.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

"OmG GuYs ThIS GaME SuX! CaN YoU BeLIeVE tHEy ArE MaKiNg mE qUEsT FoR oNe oF tHe StRonGeST sPeLls mY cLAsS hAs i sHOuLd hAvE beEn aBle to sOLo tO MaX LEvEl bY NoW aND buY eVERyThInG ofF thE mERcHaNt"

Nice hyperbole, asshole.

Do Druids have to quest for SOW? Do Enchanters have to quest for Charm? Do Necromancers have to quest for THEIR pets? Even funnier considering that all three of those classes are "more powerful" than Mages, even in Classic, let alone later expansions.

There's a reason the mage pet spells were added to vendors. Anyone have an exact date the pets go on sale? Surely you must have that information handy.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

JFC it's just some research pages rofl

image being so fragile that u wait for something for years then get crushed at the first obstacle and just give up after a huge time investment

1) That's VASTLY oversimplifying things. "Just some research pages" that are dropped by mobs significantly higher level than they will be required, and are essential to the playing of the class.

2) Has NOTHING to do with "fragility." I'm just not gonna waste another 25hours leveling a toon from 1-11 again when there are so many great games I could spend my time on instead.

[Baler]

Mage is still the #1 class in velious..
sorry haters.

[Gorster]

The whinging in this thread is why modern MMOs suck. QQ moar.

[Danger]

i hope when someone gets the first mage epic one day they necro this thread with the screenshot of receiving it.

[Qtip]

Nice hyperbole, asshole.

Do Druids have to quest for SOW? Do Enchanters have to quest for Charm? Do Necromancers have to quest for THEIR pets? Even funnier considering that all three of those classes are "more powerful" than Mages, even in Classic, let alone later expansions.

There's a reason the mage pet spells were added to vendors. Anyone have an exact date the pets go on sale? Surely you must have that information handy.

Where the fuck do you people come from? This is a 20 year old game. Google it yourself and stop being a dick head. Try to enjoy the game or reroll or go play somewhere else.

[Jibartik]

Guys gnomes complaining is super classic though :p

[fuckshit22]

up shit creek? the ranger class that can't even scare animals for a few years says hi.

[Taryth]

This is too rich. Mages have been one of the largest issues with classic servers, we have a classic solution implemented through great work by the community and devs, and now Mages are complaining.

Please, don't threaten to leave if you're going to. Just go.

[Wenai]

Nice hyperbole, asshole.

Do Druids have to quest for SOW? Do Enchanters have to quest for Charm? Do Necromancers have to quest for THEIR pets? Even funnier considering that all three of those classes are "more powerful" than Mages, even in Classic, let alone later expansions.

There's a reason the mage pet spells were added to vendors. Anyone have an exact date the pets go on sale? Surely you must have that information handy.
Yes. Necromancers have to research (quest) their pet spells:

Level 24 - Research Only = https://wiki.project1999.com/Haunting_Corpse
Level 34 - Research Only (I believe the quest is non-classic?) = https://wiki.project1999.com/Invoke_Shadow
Level 39 - Research Only (Kunark Vendors only) = https://wiki.project1999.com/Malignant_Dead
Level 44 - Research Only (Kunark Vendors only) = https://wiki.project1999.com/Cackling_Bones
Level 49 - Research Only = https://wiki.project1999.com/Invoke_Death

Not only their pet spells, their mana regeneration spells are also research only!
Level 34 - Research Only (I believe the quest is non-classic?) = https://wiki.project1999.com/Call_of_Bones
Level 49 - Research Only = https://wiki.project1999.com/Lich

You know what.... Magicians get the easy-mode and have their pet spells added to vendors eventually in the classic timeline, and these poor Necromancers are forced to research everything! Can we officially re-title this thread "[Necros] are up shit's creek I guess."

Dolalin already posted earlier stating May 1999 I think for some pet spells being added to vendors?

[WaffleztheAndal]

One mage pet per spell level gets added to vendors 2 (3?) months down the road apparently.

Necros are far more than their pets, mage's ARE their pets. This is worth bearing in mind.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

One mage pet per spell level gets added to vendors 2 (3?) months down the road apparently.

Necros are far more than their pets, mage's ARE their pets. This is worth bearing in mind.

The comparing Necro Pet research to Mage pet research is hyperbole as well.

Necro doesn't even need their pet to SOLO, let alone to group. They can still root and/or Fear rot.

Mage without his pet is a worse-Wizard damage-wise without the roots ports or evacs.

[Wenai]

The comparing Necro Pet research to Mage pet research is hyperbole as well.

Necro doesn't even need their pet to SOLO, let alone to group. They can still root and/or Fear rot.

Mage without his pet is a worse-Wizard damage-wise without the roots ports or evacs.
This thread has officially...
https://imgur.com/xlrDyPV.gif

[akagami]

The comparing Necro Pet research to Mage pet research is hyperbole as well.

Necro doesn't even need their pet to SOLO, let alone to group. They can still root and/or Fear rot.

Mage without his pet is a worse-Wizard damage-wise without the roots ports or evacs.

Those dots do so much damage in groups.

[Gorster]

This thread has officially...
https://imgur.com/xlrDyPV.gif

[Jibartik]

Mage is an interesting class because after playing this game for 20 years and loving every single thing about it I never understood why anyone would ever want to play one.

[Wallicker]

WTS words of coercion and dimension 500pp each

[silo32]

Mage is an interesting class because after playing this game for 20 years and loving every single thing about it I never understood why anyone would ever want to play one.

earth wind fire water

[cd288]

Clarity and mage pets on vendors were both patched in in May 1999.

Two months from now.

Clarity not being in is kind of dumb considering there’s no direct evidence that it wasn’t in. In fact, there are old comments from the early 2000s saying it was in at launch. Just seems weird to make such a big change without concrete evidence and especially where there’s conflicting evidence.

[Jibartik]

earth wind fire water

Ok I can see that, so its like, becoming the master of the elements? Yea that's a quest ok cool.

[ThonDaMan]

This makes my dick bust concrete. Some retard thinks he can play mage and "win". Finds out he needs to talk to other human beings & throws a shit fit. Goddam, just beautiful.

[WaffleztheAndal]

This makes my dick bust concrete. Some retard thinks he can play mage and "win". Finds out he needs to talk to other human beings & throws a shit fit. Goddam, just beautiful.

Where do these people come from lmao. Toxic as fuck.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Yea sucks that I wasted the entire launch weekend for the Classic EQ release that I've been waiting years for. That's OK though, I'll just go back to Classic WOW.

LOL! Yes please go to classic WoW you spoonfed little baby. Lots of people crying in this thread but you definitely stand out. No one made you "waste your whole weekend" playing a game that you apparently don't even have fun playing. You sound pathetic AF.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

This thread tho! A+++

This is better than anything I have seen in R & F for some time. Keep it coming fellas!

[Hagglebaron]

This thread tho! A+++

This is better than anything I have seen in R & F for some time. Keep it coming fellas!

*bows*

Hagglebaron delivers the good shit, EC tunnel or no.

[Danger]

get your pet yet?

https://i.imgur.com/Gj12l23.png

[Hagglebaron]

get your pet yet?

https://i.imgur.com/Gj12l23.png

I wish, I need to wait for the masses to catch up so there’s plenty of words and mats up for barter. I’m also debating just parking my mage at level 24 and waiting the two months for the patch to address the issue, and playing an alt in the meantime. Might use the mage to farm stuff for the alt.

[Vizax_Xaziv]

I wish, I need to wait for the masses to catch up so there’s plenty of words and mats up for barter. I’m also debating just parking my mage at level 24 and waiting the two months for the patch to address the issue, and playing an alt in the meantime. Might use the mage to farm stuff for the alt.

Lol I know of about 8 other mages who told me the same thing. Gonna be lots of 20+ mages camping DF and CB belts in the next couple weeks!

[Valion]

First of all I am glad the staff at P99 chose to implement how a mage works at classic. I am the main one that called for mage changes as I played a mage at launch, one of the very few. Big up to Dolalin for researching everything and providing proof.

Secondly to respond to your quote, there is actual proof of this from an interview with Brad in 1999. Brad himself referred to these changes an actual "enhancement" to the mage class and not a bug.

Finally, in actual vanilla classic, research skill was busted. In other words, it was IMPOSSIBLE to obtain a pet post 20 for 2.5 months in EQ. You are lucky they chose to have research actually working at these levels.

The amount of enemies I made on these forums when I first posted this stuff about mages was insane, lol...but in the end it's all about making the server more classic. Being a mage at launch was a totally different experience than it is on blue. You should be embracing it and looking at it s a positive thing. This all goes away in 2.5-3 month range. You can say you were part of a small group who had to research their pets as a mage. This is a good thing...you are experiencing being a mage in real 1999 (minus pets having casting spells which Green 2.0 will probably fix).
Thank You. Too bad you didn't get to play with the ultra powerful 39 and up pets back in the day. I didn't either maybe in 2.0

You can train Research all the way up to 200 at the guild master. Practice research has always been a joke.
Pass, I hate plat farming about as much as tunnel questing. I'll get by farm my words and do practice runes when available. Then pay the trainer from 182 to 200 to save as much plat as possible. To me it's just another tradeskill. Time is irrelevant I'll be 50 before Kunark.

To the rest keep at it I'm highly amused.

[Zal22]

Food is prepackaged in a box.

Always suspected you were a fat drunk. Sorry did not read any pages after that post.

[derpcake2]

See this guy gets it LOL.

I guarantee that guy lets Enchanter pages rot.

The Enchanter soloing across the zone is letting Magician pages rot.

They both like... Why I haff no research spell?

That guy is a troll and so are you.

I don't know if its ignorance or malice, so I'll roll with ignorance.

[Dolalin]

Clarity not being in is kind of dumb considering there’s no direct evidence that it wasn’t in.

The case is made on at least 6 or 7 firm grounds in the bug thread, including spdat.eff parses at release and in early May, coupled with the Brad post at end of year saying that Clarity was added post-release. I encourage you to read it.

At the end of the day though, there's no amount of evidence that will convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced.

[Sillyturtle]

Mage pet research also requires the PREVIOUS-level pet spell. So if you wanna research a level 34 pet you'll actually have to research four pet spells to do so.
!"

Why is nobody else talking about this?

You have to research every spell which means ridiculous quantities of materials

[fortior]

Why is nobody else talking about this?

You have to research every spell which means ridiculous quantities of materials

deal with it, mages are still op

[Sillyturtle]

deal with it, mages are still op

You’re an idiot. Mages are strong because of the pet.

This means they have no pet and are weaker than other casters.

Many of you are going on about how this was intended that it was Brads vision for the class.

It wasn’t. It was a design oversight that was fixed. Use your brains and stop being dense. Honestly. Grow up.

[Jimjam]

This means they have no pet and are weaker than other casters.

I'm sorry to hear the mages previous pet spells are deleted once he hits 24. Have you considered posting a bug report with supporting evidence?

[Dolalin]

A lot of people here need time machines to go back to 1999 and whine to Verant.

[Hagglebaron]

A lot of people here need time machines to go back to 1999 and whine to Verant.

Honestly man you are a pretty cancerous aspect of these forums.

[Dolalin]

Should have seen me on the Lanys forums back on Live, I was a legend of toxicity.

Problem is, I'm still right.

[Sillyturtle]

Should have seen me on the Lanys forums back on Live, I was a legend of toxicity.

Problem is, I'm still right.

You're not though. You're just shitting on people who have a legitimate gripe.

Just because YOU are anti magicians doesn't give you the right to be this vitriolic dirtbag.

[Modus]

Pras be to Emperor Rogean and Godgoblin Nilbog for the creation of this Vast and Wondrous Salt Mine!

(WTS: Ice of Velious x2 mage pet research pet component rare and random 60pp each PM Modus in game)

[cd288]

You're not though. You're just shitting on people who have a legitimate gripe.

Just because YOU are anti magicians doesn't give you the right to be this vitriolic dirtbag.

Have to agree with you here. Threads seem to be a lot better overall when this guy doesn’t respond to them.

[Tecmos Deception]

You're not though. You're just shitting on people who have a legitimate gripe.

Just because YOU are anti magicians doesn't give you the right to be this vitriolic dirtbag.

Actually just being alive gives him the right be a vitriolic dirtbag.

Forum staff must have taken a post-launch vacation for this thread to not have been in R&F by page 3. Lol.

[Jimjam]

Release era was anti magicians.

Dolalin just gathered evidence of classic EQ and documented it. Mages were not the only aspect of EQ affected by his diligence.

You are lucky that devs didn't have the time nor inclination to implement Research in its initial iteration (i.e. completely unusable). Then mages would have 'no pets' from 24+.

To be honest, I view the required level for mage pets in this era as similar to the required weapon for proc weapons; sure the obsidian flamberge can proc at level 17, but good luck actually attaining it by then.

You need to alter your expectations; no longer can you expect to have a full spell book every level.

You will have decisions to make about which vendor spells you can afford to upgrade. You will have decisions of pragmatics for which pets you will be able to research.

You may want to specialize on one pet, just so you can stock up on the materials to create that line. As i recall from my own mage, I had to 'upgrade' one pet in to another by researching the earlier versions as reagents for the combine for upgraded versions.

[Tecmos Deception]

Agree with Jimmy. It's really just a problem of expectations. Basically all the problems on the server are. Concerns about population, hybrid penalties, mage pets, lists, leveling speed, etc. People came into this not expecting all of this stuff, or not understanding how it would impact them until they actually felt it first hand, and instead of being able to cope, some of these people decide who whine or rage.

[Jimjam]

I mean, honestly, half the people complaining about the mage pets probably not going to be 29+ (the point where a 20 pet is going to REALLY start to suck) until the vendor pets get patched in anyway.

[westarcher]

Agree with Jimmy. It's really just a problem of expectations. Basically all the problems on the server are. Concerns about population, hybrid penalties, mage pets, lists, leveling speed, etc. People came into this not expecting all of this stuff, or not understanding how it would impact them until they actually felt it first hand, and instead of being able to cope, some of these people decide who whine or rage.

I love a lot of the stuff, even though life is harder most of it really adds to the classic experience.
Super dark Night time is especially a great feature, I love it.
This is probably my first run through where I'm actually taking tradeskills early for equips as I level. On blue I just get twinked out like crazy by friendly passerby's

However a few things like
Hybrid class penalties are too harsh imo, They're not overly terrible on their own with standard races but they become a little silly when combined with racial penalties, I have no qualms about racial exp penalty itself though.
Pet window - eh we can survive without it but removing it doesn't really add to the fun of the game.
and I really wish an exception would be made for troll cultural tradeskills, and bring it into the game for both servers but that's just my silly uninformed opinion (i have no idea about the powerscaling on the cultural items for troll especially with the timeline so there's that too.)

But overall it's been a good time and it's been mostly fun dealing with the hurdles.