Clarity Should be stacking with Lich (evidence linked)

[Crevex]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-2.html

I came across these patch notes from one of Dolalins threads. Oddly enough, he passed over it. I wonder why?

Article in question is quoted below.

------------------------------
July 10, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

- Stacking issues with 'change form' type spells have been corrected.
Lich and Clarity will no longer stack, nor will Spirit of Wolf and Wolf
Form.

So it seems that clarity should be stacking with "change form" versions of the necro mana regen, Call of Bones and Lich.

[Sunderfury]

Would you gain mana from each effect or only 1 (similar to item worn haste)? If only 1, would it be from the first casted buff or second cast or highest gain?

[Dolalin]

As I recall you would gain the Mana Regen effects of both.

Believe it or not I'm not superhuman and can't file a bug for every single thing I read in the patch notes. If you see something I've missed, file it.

[Dolalin]

From this newsgroup thread from July 2000 I'm getting the impression that the Clarity/Lich stacking may have been broken and fixed multiple times. In this thread they talk about it no longer working as it had been fixed "months ago".

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/alt.games.everquest/IIAdV12dScY/discussion

[Dolalin]

Post from January 2000 that Lich and Clarity did not stack:


...the Lich line will cancel clarity when used.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/CP3JAmpbkcc/OyXtdTzrqckJ


First fix must have happened before that.

[Dolalin]

Two posts from December 1999 that Clarity and Lich/CoB don't stack:


necro manaconvert spells dont stack with clarity

https://groups.google.com/forum/?nomobile=true#!search/group$3Aalt.games.everquest$20necro$20enchanter$20 stack$20before$3A01$2F01$2F2000/alt.games.everquest/W0hjKkh2iyk/JvTkZeZbOa4J



Unfortunately hp->mana diseases won't stack with Clarity

https://groups.google.com/forum/?nomobile=true#!search/group$3Aalt.games.everquest$20necro$20enchanter$20 stack$20before$3A01$2F01$2F2000/alt.games.everquest/XKzbX4dL6xs/C78xT5PTqUQJ

[DMN]

I posted about this way back in may.

"One of my mains back in vanilla was a necro and a couple things jump out.... Another big one is clarity used to stack with the lich line. ...."

[Dolalin]

Do you remember anything about timing of the stacking DMN? Like when were you playing that you remember for sure that it stacked? It's being a bugbear to track down.

My theory so far is that it stacked until sometime around September 1999, was fixed, and then started stacking again sometime in 2001 and was fixed again, these are just guesses of mine at the moment though.

[DMN]

It probably would be difficult to pin point because of course clarity wasn't even around for awhile after release, and then the reality was there were so few enchanters in the first place. There is probably about a 5 month post release window of time I'd expect it to be very unlikely that anyone was talking about in any forums.

I'm pretty sure it stacked from day 1 clarity introduced, as far as when it was nerfed... I recall it happening around the plane of hate. I was the "clarity dispenser" for my guild and distinctly recall it being nerfed while doing hate basically all i ever did was leave my enchanter logged off in hate to switch over and hit everyone with clarity (and sometimes the melee classes with aug). it could just be that I found out about not stacking while we were doing hate or something, it might not have been necessarily right around its release that the nerfed happened.

[Dolalin]

My mailing list archives might have that. I will check them when I get home.

[Dolalin]

Ok I got the window for the last break fix in 2001. Lich and Clarity stacked for literally only one patch cycle apparently:


7/10/01

>> - Stacking issues with 'change form' type spells
>> have been corrected. Lich and Clarity will no
>> longer stack, nor will Spirit of Wolf and Wolf
>> Form.
>
>Hmm, did the Lich + Clarity give enourmous amounts of mana? If so this could
>be considered a nerf.

They did allow a necro to regain mana at a rather quick rate. I'd
consider it more of a bug fix than a nerf though since it was only
introduced in the last patch.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.games.everquest/aG3xzmYh3VE/c8WIFJc4TcIJ

[DMN]

Hrmm date seems wrong to me, but i do remember it wasn't around a particularly long period of time.

i thought it was always around though since clarity was blatantly ripped off from bards in a slipshod fashion. The old bard animation for the manasong was identical to clarity casting animation for a period of time. And manasong stacked with lich. So made sense.

[Dolalin]

Well like I said I think they stacked for at least two separate periods, once in 1999 and once in 2001 as quoted above.

I still need to nail down the 1999 window of them stacking

Another thing to consider is that based on the September 1999 patch message, Lich and Bond of Death weren't researchable until that point. I remember level 50 necros still using CoB when I started playing. So Clarity stacking with the Necro line may not have really been a balance problem until the fall.

[DMN]

So they fixed it once and then broke it again, eh? That would make more sense in my memory with this date not jiving at all.

[Dolalin]

So they fixed it once and then broke it again, eh? That would make more sense in my memory with this date not jiving at all.

Exactly

[Nirgon]

The shaman epic used to give a heal to hostile targets at the same splurt like rate before it was fixed too. Maybe a week or few weeks. Used it on RZ all the time, with shamans putting it on themselves too. I just don't think a week long bug is within their interests? By all means do this for as long as it is appropriate.

I think the paladin epic proc did 32k for a little while also. Not kidding

[Barm McLir]

The shaman epic used to give a heal to hostile targets at the same splurt like rate before it was fixed too. Maybe a week or few weeks.

I remember that. You could /duel your MT and -- hey-- free heals!

[Dolalin]

I found an old Necromonitor thread about Clarity and the Dark Pact line briefly stacking, from Clarity's addition in late May until about mid-July 1999:


Posted by Gaeorn Kinslayer on Jul-30-99 at 07:51 AM (EST)

I am not sure if many of you group with enchanters, if you dont, TRUST ME, FIND ONE, and become that players BEST PAL! Enchanters are AWSOME to group with, what with there buffs and de-buffs, AND they have the only charm left in the game. ADD to this the fact that enchanters have a spell called CARITY, THIS spell increases your mana regen. Add to this your Alure of Death, and you, my fellow necro, are a mana machine. NO MORE!!! Last night, while in the pit in Thule, I was with my enchantress pal, she had clarity on her to fellow necros. After a battle, I cast Alure of Death, after a bit, I noticed my mana not shooting up like it used to. Hmmmmm, I wondered, what is wrong, I get up, and notice that ALure of Death was not on. Hmmmmm, maybe the spell failed to cast, since that patch before last, my fizzle rate is WAY UP. I cast it, and get
"the spell fails to take hold". I recast Alure 10 TIMES! EACH FAILED, same message! So, I ask my fellow necromancer to try Alure, to see if it works, he is a couple lvls above me(I of 30th, he 32 lvl). SAME THING!

SO, those that think I was wrong before, ONCE AGAIN, Verant proves that they HATE necromancers! I think they must want everything to be Tolkenisk and have only npc necromancers, and the rest of the players to dance around singing happy songs. It seems that every other patch cuts either the Shadowkinghts, or us down AGAIN! If this is not fixed (Word loss, reasurch pets,no mix of ALure and clarity,total nerf of Screaming Terror) I say we protest a weekend.



Posted by Cala on Jul-30-99 at 08:40 AM (EST)

The clarity + allure of death was changed before this most recent patch. I had grouped with an enchanter last week before the patch and noticed that allure of death did not mix with clarity. I didn't think much of it, it was still very fast mana regen imo.

Cala
Level 28 Gnome Necromancer


http://web.archive.org/web/19991004111120/www.doomguild.com/monitor/general/1269.html

It is still possible that the stacking was broken *again* later and fixed *again* in the fall. I will see if I can find anything else.